The Daily - The F.B.I. Search of Trump’s Home

Episode Date: August 10, 2022

On Monday, federal agents descended on Mar-a-Lago, the private club and Florida home of former President Donald J. Trump, reportedly looking for classified documents and presidential papers.Trump supporters expressed outrage about the agency’s actions, while many Democrats reacted with glee. But what do we know about the search, and what comes next?Guest: Maggie Haberman, a White House correspondent for The New York Times.Background reading: The search at Mar-a-Lago was the culmination of a lengthy conflict between a president proud of his disdain for rules and officials charged with protecting the nation’s records and secrets.Experts say that the Justice Department would have carefully weighed the decision to carry out the search, suggesting that the investigation is serious and fairly advanced.Here is the timeline leading up to the search.For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday. 

From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily. Today, what we're learning about the unprecedented decision by the FBI to search the home of former President Donald Trump. I spoke with my colleague, senior political correspondent, Maggie Haberman. It's Wednesday, August 10th. Maggie, can you describe

what happened on Monday at Mar-a-Lago? Mid-morning, around 10 a.m., several federal agents descended on Mar-a-Lago, Mid-morning, around 10 a.m., several federal agents descended on Mar-a-Lago, Trump's private club and home, this gilded gold elaborate club that he has owned for decades, and they began to search the rooms. They searched the property over several hours, well into the afternoon. People close to Trump claimed there were about two dozen agents. People close to Trump claim there were about two dozen agents. They started out looking in a storage room in the basement of the club. Then they moved on to his office, which was built after the presidency on the second floor of the club, looking almost like a mini presidential suite with a giant desk that looks like the Resolute Desk in the Oval Office. They cracked into a hotel-style safe that he had there, and then they moved on to his residence. Ultimately, the FBI left with several boxes.

Now, Trump was not at Mar-a-Lago. He was in the New York area. And at some point, while this was all going on, his son, Eric, who is the main point of contact for a lot of these Trump businesses, learned what was happening. And he was the one who called his father and told him that the FBI was on their property. And what is Trump's response when he learns about this FBI search at this property of his? Former President Donald Trump says the FBI is searching his Mar-a-Lago estate in Florida. The former president put out a statement just minutes ago. Trump put out a statement basically around the time the search ended,

excoriating federal officials for searching his property. Quote, these are dark times for our nation as my beautiful home Mar-a-Lago in Palm Beach, Florida is currently under siege, raided and occupied by a large group of FBI agents. Nothing like this has ever happened to a president of the United States before. Saying this is something that hasn't been seen before in America, describing it again as he has every investigation he's faced as a witch hunt. It is prosecutorial misconduct, the weaponization of the justice system, and an attack by radical left Democrats who desperately don't want me to run for president in 2024. And insisting that this is the work of political foes who want to keep him from running

in 2024. What is the difference between this and Watergate, where operatives broke into the Democrat National Committee? Here, in reverse, Democrats broke into the home of the 45th president of the United States. And once the president issues that statement, which, as I recall, was the moment that most of us found out that the search was even occurring, what is the reaction from the broader world? Michael, it was seismic. It was an eruption. On the left... We're now hearing from some Democrats now who appear to be celebrating this apparent raid of the FBI.

There was an intense level of glee for a lot of Democrats who have wanted to see Trump investigated or prosecuted for a very long period of time. We're hearing from Representative Eric Swalwell of California, who said the rule of law is taking shape and accountability is coming. They didn't need to know the details to be happy. And Jerry Nadler, the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, responded to these breaking news headlines with just one word, good exclamation point. On the right...

That unprecedented FBI search of the former president's home is triggering a political firestorm. It had a galvanizing effect. First, a dark day for our republic, the Department of Justice, the rule of law, what looks to be potentially a shocking overreach that will have serious ramifications potentially for many, many years to come.

A number of politicians close to Trump began to criticize the actions of the DOJ. Senator Marco Rubio wrote this, the FBI isn't doing anything about the groups vandalizing Catholic churches, firebombing pro-life groups, but they find time to raid Mar-a-Lago. Again, without knowing exactly what had taken place. This should scare the living daylights out of American citizens. Rick Scott, the senator in Florida, invoked the Nazis by comparison. The way our federal government has gone,

it's like what we thought about the Gestapo and people like that, that they just go after people. And within hours of the end of this search, a swarm of protesters amassed near Mar-a-Lago. In my own opinion, I think it's another unjust, made-up thing like the impeachment hoaxes. Biden administration, the Democrats are weaponizing the FBI and it has to stop.

Denouncing the federal officials and insisting that Trump was the victim of an unfair effort against him. Maggie, this is about as big as it gets. The FBI searching the home of the former president of the United States. Trump was right, by all accounts, when he called it unprecedented. It has never happened before. And presumably, the FBI understood that it would provoke a ferocious partisan response. So why did the

Department of Justice, why did the FBI conduct this search? What was behind it? You're right, Michael, that this was not done lightly. And it came because when Trump left the White House, as we all know very contentiously at the end of January in 2021, he took with him 15 boxes, cardboard boxes from the White House residence, stuffed with a mishmash of things. Papers, golf balls, a raincoat, I'm told. But in there were documents that belonged to the National Archives. National Archives officials need those documents as part of the Presidential Records Act. The National Archives is where those are supposed to live,

but they migrated with Trump when he went to Florida. And there was a lengthy back and forth between National Archives officials and Trump's team about getting those boxes back. And that back and forth lasted much of 2021. And just to be clear about this back and forth, the National Archives is saying, hey, perhaps this was a mistake. Perhaps you thought this was memorabilia. But under the law, we need those records in the National Archives. You can't take them. So kindly return them to us.

That's exactly right. They were making clear that under the Presidential Records Act, which is a Watergate-era construction, documents that are created by or received by a president related to his or her official duties are supposed to be preserved, no matter how small the president might think they are. Okay, so what ends up happening with these 15 boxes? As we understand it, they were allegedly returned. The archives got the boxes at some point earlier this year in 2022. When they got the boxes, they started going through what was there, and they found many pages of documents marked classified. That took this to a different place. Explain that.

There are specific rules around the handling of classified material, and who can see it, and who can look at it, and how it can be transported. And the fact that there were documents marked classified in these boxes raised all kinds of concerns

for federal officials. But Maggie, if Trump returned these documents, what's the big deal? It seems, Michael, he didn't return all the documents. We know that in the spring, two things happened. A grand jury started issuing subpoenas related to these documents. And we know that counterintelligence officials went down to Mar-a-Lago to surveil what may have still been there. And that is how we arrived at this moment where the FBI went looking for specific pieces of paper on Monday. Maggie, why would Trump so persistently hold onto these documents once it became clear that the government was demanding them back and was even starting to go so far as to

impanel a grand jury to get them. So Michael, Trump had a peculiar relationship with records throughout his entire presidency. He was known throughout for tearing up pieces of paper that were supposed to be preserved under the Presidential Records Act. Staff repeatedly talked to him about it. It didn't change his behavior. He tore up all manner of documents. People had to follow him around to get them, to retrieve them, to tape them back up. To tape them back up. Tape them back up. In some cases, he ripped things up and threw them in the toilet, and they ended up flushed down. And just to be clear, flushing documents down the toilet,

that's not legal. It depends what they are, but it's not normal. It's not proper. At minimum, it's not good for the pipes in a pretty old building. There were discussions among staff about whether to try to get him to use a burn bag, which is where you put documents that are properly disposed of.

But that didn't really work. And Donald Trump has a decades-old disinterest in keeping records and people taking notes, and he has a disregard for the rules that exist around record-keeping. And he just refused to change when he became president and saw no reason why he would have to. But then there were some pieces of paper that he was fascinated by. So in the Oval Office as president, he would take

letters that Kim Jong-un wrote him. And even though these were supposed to be very secret documents, he would wave them around at visitors as if these were a souvenir or a prop, and he would look for their reaction. Those letters were said to be among the cache of documents that made their way to Mar-a-Lago. Other pieces of paper made their way to Mar-a-Lago, but people weren't sure what they were because Trump for months would tell aides to bring things from the Oval Office to the residence, pieces of paper, and there was no process for keeping track of it, and aides to bring things from the Oval Office to the residence, pieces of paper, and there was no process for keeping track of it, and aides would comply because he was the president. But that

meant that at the end of his presidency, things got stuffed in these boxes and just took the flight down with him to Palm Beach. So the National Archives, which has demanded these documents under the law, would seem to have a few pretty logical fears to contend with here. Not just that these documents are not where they're supposed to be, but that perhaps Trump might tear them up, flush them down the toilet in Mar-a-Lago, on and on and on. They want these back. All of these reasons, Michael, Trump's destructive tendencies with documents, his desire to treat things as part of a broader show, the lack of security protocols at Mar-a-Lago, which has already been under scrutiny for the fact that people have tried to use proximity to the president there without security protocols to get near him. All of this is why they want these documents back. The main reason being they belong in the archives.

They're not Donald Trump's personal property. And the FBI appears to have made the calculation that the only way to get this back was to swoop in on a day that Trump was not there. And get them by force. And get them by force. We'll be right back. Meggie, you started to hint at this idea that security at Mar-a-Lago might be an issue, and that you have a president with all these sensitive documents, some of them classified, lying around Mar-a-Lago. What exactly

do we think the fear was by the National Archives, by the FBI, with this scenario? Among other concerns, such as who actually had a security clearance around Trump and who didn't, Mar-a-Lago is not known as the world's most secure place. It's a members club. People can pay to join. People can bring guests. They have to submit their names in order to attend,

but there have been previous instances while Trump was president where people who were seen as security risks got too close to him. And so it appears one of the fears for officials was that somebody could end up, if not accessing, seeing or learning about material they simply shouldn't. Right. I mean, not to get too specific, but it sounds like the fear is that a spy from another country posing as a guest makes their way into a private room in Mar-a-Lago and snaps a photograph of a classified document

that was taken from the White House that would get into all the wrong hands and come back to become a national security risk for the United States. If not the concern, Michael, it certainly is a concern that that is the kind of risk Trump was putting the government in by having possession of certain documents in this unsecured environment. Now, of course, everyone wants to know what specific kinds of documents are believed to be in his possession. And are they the kind of documents that pose this risk? Do we know anything?

There is extremely little known about the nature of the classified material that was found. But there is no way that it was not significant if the FBI was breaking into a former president's safe to retrieve it. Right. They're not opening a safe to look for the fourth draft of the speech he gave at a rally. This is something of a more significant nature. Maggie, do we know if the FBI got what they were after in this search? Did they get the remaining documents from those 15 boxes that the president never returned? We know that they were looking for possibly classified documents and presidential papers,

according to a Trump lawyer. We do not know whether they had a specific target in mind and met it, but we know, again, that they took several boxes of paper off the property. Got it. But we know, again, that they took several boxes of paper off the property. Got it. Maggie, let's presume that these documents, some, all of them, are now back in the hands of the National Archives. Is that more or less the end of it? Or could there be legal consequences for Trump for having taken them out of the White House and kept them for so long. So Michael, the Presidential Records Act itself does not have teeth, but the mishandling of

classified material can lead to other potential legal problems. And there have been people who have faced such problems in the past. Key among them was Sandy Berger. He was a key national security aid to then-President Bill Clinton. He ended up pleading guilty to having taken classified documents from the archives and destroying them with scissors. And did he end up in jail? He did not serve jail time. He paid a $50,000 fine instead. He had to turn over his security clearance for three years, and he had to cooperate with his security clearance for three years, and he had to cooperate with investigators.

Now, a more recent example of an investigation into the possible mishandling of classified material was related to Hillary Clinton and her email server in 2015 and 2016. Right, Hillary Clinton used a private email server rather than a government email server, and therefore, in theory, classified emails were going to email server rather than a government email server, and therefore, in theory, classified emails were going to her home rather to a government server. Correct. And what ended up happening was there was this lengthy investigation into her at a time when Donald Trump was using that investigation

as a political cudgel. We also need the best protection of classified information. That is the worst situation. And suggesting that because there were questions about her handling of classified information, that she should not be president. Hillary's private email scandal, which put our classified information in the reach of our enemies, disqualifies her from the presidency. in the reach of our enemies disqualifies her from the presidency.

And now you have Donald Trump facing some of those very same questions. Right. So based on what you just said, Maggie, in theory, Donald Trump could face some form of prosecution for actively mishandling classified documents, a charge that wasn't brought against Hillary Clinton at the end of an investigation, but we don't know if it might be brought against Trump. In theory, mishandling classified information is something that prosecutors could look to charge Donald Trump with,

depending on what the facts are. And there's a lot that we still don't know. It would be pretty ironic, wouldn't it, if Trump were to be prosecuted not for his role in inciting January 6th riot, not for his role in trying to overturn the results of the 2020 election, both of which are under investigation by different branches of the federal government, but instead for simply walking out of the White House with a bunch of documents. walking out of the White House with a bunch of documents. Michael, of all of the things that Donald Trump has been investigated for, possible conspiracy between his campaign and Russia, two impeachments, and ongoing investigations related to the January 6th, 2021 riot at the Capitol that left several people dead,

it would be ironic if this is what ends up sticking to Donald Trump. For years, when Donald Trump was a private businessman, he used to say to the people who worked with him, it's the little things that get you. Compared to everything else we just described, this is a little thing. He may not be gotten, quote unquote, but this has already gone further than I think most people thought it ever would. Right, grand jury investigation. And a search of his home.

Well, Maggie, thank you very much. We appreciate it. Michael, thank you very much. I appreciate it. Michael, thank you for having me. We'll be right back. Here's what else you need to know today. On Tuesday, police in Albuquerque, New Mexico, said they had arrested a suspect in the murder of four Muslim men over the past year, a major breakthrough in a case that had terrified the city's Islamic community. Three of the murders took place in the last few weeks, the latest on August 5th. It is believed

that the suspect, himself a Muslim, killed the men because he was angry that his daughter had married a Muslim of a different sect. Anne. Serena Williams, who took the tennis world by storm as a teenager, won 23 Grand Slam titles and has become a beacon of fashion, entertainment, and business, said on Tuesday that she would retire from the sport. Williams was not specific about the timing, but hinted that she would retire after the upcoming U.S. Open, a tournament she first won in 1999 at the age of 17. 1999 at the age of 17. Today's episode was produced by Nina Feldman, Sydney Harper, and Stella Tan.

It was edited by M.J. Davis-Lynn and Lisa Chow, contains original music by Rowan Namisto and Alisha Ba'itu and was engineered by Chris Wood. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsberg of Wonderly. That's it for The Daily. I'm Michael Barbaro. See you tomorrow.