The Daily - The Field: On Election Day, 'Two Different Worlds'

Episode Date: November 3, 2020

This episode contains strong language.At the heart of one race for the Wisconsin State Assembly are some of the same political cracks splitting the U.S. as a whole. Some believe keeping businesses running is a priority during the coronavirus pandemic; others think keeping people safe and healthy should be given precedence.What do the different approaches reveal about Wisconsin politics and about broader American divisions? Reid J. Epstein, a politics reporter for The New York Times, and Andy Mills and Luke Vander Ploeg, audio producers for The Times, went to the state to find out.Guests: Reid J. Epstein, who covers campaigns and elections for The New York Times; Andy Mills, a senior audio producer for The Times; Luke Vander Ploeg, an audio producer for The Times. Bonus Election Day special: The Daily is going LIVE today. Listen to Michael Barbaro and Carolyn Ryan, a deputy managing editor at The Times, as they call our correspondents for the latest on a history-making day. Tune in from 4 - 8 p.m. Eastern, only on nytimes.com/thedaily and on The New York Times iPhone app. Click here for more information. Background reading: Here’s Reid’s story about how the virus has divided the conservative town of Minocqua, Wis.President Trump and Joe Biden barnstormed through battleground states, concluding an extraordinary campaign conducted amid a health crisis and deep economic anxiety.

Reid, where are we and why are we here? We are just outside of Rhinelander, Wisconsin. There's snow on the ground everywhere. The car says it is 29 degrees. It's days before the election. You know, this is a fairly Republican area. It's in the north woods of Wisconsin, near the Michigan border. And yet there are Democrats that are putting up a big fight to try to get out their voters that just didn't exist

four years ago and frankly, in a lot of years before that. From the New York Times, this is The Field. I'm Reid Epstein in Wisconsin. From The New York Times, this is The Field. I'm Reid Epstein in Wisconsin. In 2016, Wisconsin was the forgotten state. After it had reliably voted for every Democratic presidential candidate since 1988, Hillary Clinton never once traveled there during the campaign. And on election night 2016, four years ago,

Donald Trump shocked pollsters when he won the state by less than 1%, cementing his path to victory through the white working class voters of the upper Midwest. to the Northwoods of Wisconsin, the most forgotten part in the most forgotten state, to look at one particular race happening there, a race that has pitted neighbor against neighbor, against the backdrop of a surging pandemic, a race that in many ways is a microcosm of where America finds itself today, on Election Day. I'm not sure about that, guys. This place looks great.

Oh, thank you. This is the real thing. This was built right after Prohibition, 1932, 1933. Our first stop was at the Algen Dinner Club in Rhinelander. It's called the Algen because the original owners were Al and Genevieve Nelson. And nobody ever changed the name. How many taxidermied animals do you think you've got in here? I see you've got deer, you've got black bear, you've got fish hanging.

It's an old, charming log cabin with lots of dead animals looking down at you from the walls. That's pretty much standard stuff in the Northwoods, you know? We were there to talk to the owner, a quintessential up-North guy. Friendly, inviting, broad-shouldered, with a picturesque Tom Selleck mustache. So my name is Rob Swearingen. I am currently the state representative for the 34th Assembly District in the Wisconsin State Assembly. A four-term state assemblyman in Wisconsin, running for re-election and on the ballot today. This is the fifth time that you've run for this seat.

Correct. And his race has come to embody the very divisions that are separating so much of the country right now. I think we want to start sort of who you are and how we got here. So I'm a lifelong resident of Rhinelander. So I was born here, raised here, went to Rhinelander High School, graduated in 1981. My mom was a waitress downtown for one of the mainstay places for years, for 30 some years years she was a waitress down there. I started out as a busboy at the resort about two miles down the road. Eventually ended up being a bartender there. So that was my kind of like my entrance into hospitality. Rob says that eventually

as he got older and got married to his high school sweetheart. I attended bar for a few people. I decided to take the plunge myself. He started looking to become a restaurant owner himself. And one night, he was eating here at the Algen, a place where he'd been a regular since he was a small kid. Came down here quite a bit for dinner, and the folks that owned this place were very dear friends of ours, no relation. They approached my wife and I both and said, you really should consider taking over for us. We want to retire. And that was 28 years ago. And Rob, he tells this story. The locals. As a sort of allegory to his community.

In the Northwoods, especially in the Rhino area, take good care of their local businesses, and especially restaurants and supper clubs. So while our business is largely tourist-related in the summertime, in the wintertime, and for the rest of the year, for that matter, it's largely from the locals that keep us going. And since my wife and I are both locals all of our lives, we know a lot of people. It's a community, you get the impression.

Living the life, I guess. That he really loves. And he describes his politics as just kind of flowing naturally out of that. Once you get involved in, you know, this is your lifeblood. So you've got to worry about making a living. you know, this is your lifeblood. So you got to worry about making a living. And so what happens in Madison or in Washington, D.C.

are directly linked to how this business operates. So for example? You know, smoking ban was a big one. He fought against Wisconsin's statewide smoking ban. You were a fan of it or you were against it? No, we were against it. Yeah, we were against it because we were small businesses being told what to do by the government, you know, so it was a frustrating thing.

You wanted to continue to be able to smoke indoors. Correct, yeah. Bars and restaurants. Right, leave it up to us. It was our decision to make. A customer can, you know, smart enough to figure out whether or not they want to go to a place that allows smoking or not. He fought against changing Wisconsin's drinking age requirements. Raising the drinking age from 18 to 21. But Rob says nothing in his political experience prepared him for what happened this spring, starting on March 17th.

St. Patrick's Day. What does St. Patrick's Day mean to you? It's a big deal. You know, the corned beef and cabbage was cooking and ready to go. Yeah, people drinking green beer. And the governor said, no, you're all closed at five o'clock. When the coronavirus first hit in the spring, the state of Wisconsin, like the rest of the country, went into a sudden lockdown. The governor of the state shut down every bar and restaurant within four hours on St. Patrick's Day. We tried surviving

carryouts. Well, that quickly deteriorated on Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday because it just wasn't paying. So the restaurant was closed for the first time ever during the week. So we were only open three nights a week, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. I still feel a responsibility to my employees, right? I mean, they work here. I want them to make a living to be able to provide for their families. So it was pretty scary stuff there for a while. Eventually, the restrictions that Governor Tony Evers, a Democrat, ordered from Madison were challenged by Rob and his Republican colleagues in the state legislature. They were thrown out by the courts, and Rob's restaurant, like others, was allowed to reopen, though strongly encouraged to implement social

distancing measures to keep employees and guests safe. And we tried, you know, seating every other table and trying the social distancing, but there was, you know, there is some reality to the fact that when people come into a cocktail lounge, they're here to have a little fun. Rob said he and his staff started off separating the tables, but that it just didn't work. There was a perception that I saw people that had COVID up to here. We're done with COVID. We want to go on and live our lives, whether it was coming out to dinner or going to a tavern or whatever the case may be. And to Rob, that made some sense.

Because what works in Milwaukee didn't need to be applied to us up here. It's like masks. Out of respect, if the sign on the door says you got to wear a mask to go into Walmart or Menards or the local sporting goods store or Home Depot, you got to wear a mask. That's the deal. But I don't think that we needed a mandate from the governor saying you have to wear a mask. Everybody was pretty much doing it common sense-wise anyway. What are people in here doing as far as masks? People will come in wearing a mask, but they don't wear it long. I mean, first of all, we're an eating and drinking establishment. It's hard to do that with a mask on.

Most of the waitresses are wearing a mask. A couple can't because of some respiratory issues. And so for the most part, you know, we still have that common sense and that respect when people come in. Rob wasn't wearing a mask when we got to his restaurant or during our interview. Though he did offer to put one on if it made us feel uncomfortable. And he said this kind of loose interpretation of the governor's mandate, it's not just him. That's the approach that a lot of businesses in the Northwoods are taking. This governor, for whatever reason, people are kind of ignoring his edicts.

These state edicts, they rely on locals to enforce them. But Rob told us the Oneida County Sheriff and the local health departments, they're not interested in doing that. Local law enforcement came out and said, that's not our job. So don't be calling the police department or the sheriff's department because somebody came in here not wearing a mask. But in recent weeks, the coronavirus has surged in Wisconsin, and the state is now in the midst of one of the country's worst outbreaks. And it's come to the Northwoods. And one of the reasons I wanted to talk to Rob is because of something I'd heard had happened here a few weeks back, and it had turned political in town. One of his employees had gotten the virus and gotten it bad. Pam Haskins, who was one of your waitresses, who I guess got sick. Yes. Can you tell us what happened with her? So all my waitresses are part-time and she also works in healthcare

and she contracted COVID and she was one of the ones that was, I mean, it's just an awful story. She ended up in the ICU, you know, and first of all, she's fine. She's back home, and she's been texting with my wife, and she's just a great gal. But unfortunately, her husband visited her in the hospital and got sick as well. And the story escalates to where he left her bedside and he was in the hospital as well in a different room and a blood clot let loose

and he was flight-related to Marshfield and later died. So it's just an awful story, awful story. But yeah, we haven't seen pam now in probably month and a half or so but she's back home recovering and did anybody else who worked here got yeah i had one bartender um that she was out for a couple of weeks uh she's doing fine my second bartender uh his wife got it and then so he ultimately got it. So he quarantined for actually a month because he's an older guy. He's 70, 77. And so he just came back after being off for five weeks. Did you have other people, other people who worked here get tested after sort of people who had been in the restaurant got sick? No, no, we've never been contacted by local health

department. My wife and I never had it. Have you gone in to get tested? No, I haven't. I haven't, neither has my wife. What do you say to people who say, okay, you laxed some of the guidelines coming down from the governor's office and some of your workers got sick. office and some of your workers got sick. One of your workers likely gave that sickness to her husband. Her husband died. And they say, like, how in the face of that do you think that this one-size-fits-all thing is too strict and that the money that you want to make off your business is worth it? Like, what do you say to someone who says that? Well, you know, first of all, like I say, there's been no connection to the restaurant to all these, you know, because all these people are part-time, come from different jobs and different things. Rob rejects the possibility that Pam got the virus from his supper club. And I, you know, trust me, Scott that died, he's a good guy.

He's a good guy. And Pam is a wonderful lady, too. But, yeah, moving forward, I mean, we take the same precautions we have since the beginning of the pandemic. And he defends the restaurant's safety protocols. But this is exactly the sort of behavior that Rob's Democratic challenger has seized on and made a focal point of his campaign and tried to mobilize local Democrats around. How do you speak to that kind of criticism? Well, I would argue that what we're doing is working. And when people call and say, look, this may not be the place for you. If I have a waitress that has a respiratory problem that she can't wear a mask, or we had a reservation a week ago that insisted that the waitress wear

a mask, I said, absolutely, we can do that for you. So you just, you know, you can do a lot of that sometimes on a case-by-case, but for the most part, we're trying to keep some level of stability for the restaurant, for the employees that work here. Herein lies the political divide between people who think keeping businesses running is the ultimate priority and those who think keeping people healthy is the ultimate priority. Like Rob's opponent, who just so happens to also own a local restaurant. Who is your political opponent? And what do you make of him? He apparently grew up in Stevens Point, right?

This is a college town about an hour and a half south of Rhinelander. And went off to Harvard University, Harvard College, through Massachusetts and New York. Along the way, he turned out to be an opera singer. And it would seem to me that he's kind of an elitist. And I don't think he's a very good fit for somebody who wants to represent the Northwoods in Madison. Do you have any sense of how he's handled his restaurant during the pandemic? Well, he aligned himself very closely with Governor Evers' decisions, right? So he took everything to the 10th power, shut the building down, served outside,

had a tent in the parking lot, and now, of course, he's closed it up, citing COVID. So he claims he's going to be opening again next spring. I don't know. We've been targeted by my opponent as the den of COVID and all sorts of rumors and Facebook. I've never quite had to fight against Facebook in an election. What's he saying?

Well, he created a list of places that don't enforce the mask mandate and felt the need to put all those places on his Facebook page. This is true. You're on that list. Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure. And not only did Rob's opponent put him on a list, but he actually shared a Photoshop picture of Rob wearing a shirt that originally said I heart libraries, but he changed it to I heart COVID-19. There's some nasty stuff out there. You got people that are kind of stalking me, trying to catch me not wearing a mask at Walmart. You know, it's just like stuff that you've never, I never thought I'd have to deal with.

And then Rob said, just what I'd been thinking. I think it's interesting that we're both in business and yet have these total opposite views, right? As political opponents, as restaurant owners, these guys are operating in complete contrast. I mean, in previous races, I could point to my opponent and say, this guy has never run a business. He doesn't know what it's like to sign a paycheck, to make a payroll. I can't say that with my opponent this time around. But it is really unusual for a small-town businessman to be so entrenched in those democratic beliefs, from my perspective, to ruin your own business. Because I think that's what he's done. I mean, he shut his business down. I mean, that's a pretty strong belief.

Hi there. What's going on? Hi there. I'm Andy. Cold enough for you fuckers today, huh? I'm sorry. Jesus Christ. So after talking to Rob... Fuck, it's nuts. I mean, it's Wisconsin, but it's not this bad. We drove about 30 minutes north to the town of Minocqua to meet his opponent, Kirk Bankstead. Do you want to do something outside before we go inside? He met us outside his bar, the Minocqua Brewing Company,

and there's this gigantic blue Biden-Harris sign hanging across one side of the building. Downstairs is more the pub. Up here is more the music venue. This is very nice. It's about as different from the Algen as you can imagine. Yeah, it's like a stage with big sort of floor-to-ceiling windows that overlook the lake. We settle in for the interview. This time, everyone's wearing a mask. Um, okay, so did you want to start

with questions? I think everybody wanted to hear you sing. We figured it was going to happen eventually. I'm in a trail Now ask me how far they got me in Manhattan. Kirk is indeed a classically trained opera singer, and it doesn't take much prompting to get him going.

How far does it get you in Wisconsin, though? Gets me on that stage right there, but I own it, so it's kind of easy to book myself. Do you still get a lot of opportunities to sing now that you're back here? Well, before I close the restaurant. I mean, that's one of the reasons I bought this place. Like Rob said, Kirk is handling his business very differently during the pandemic. When the virus hit, he filed for a federal PPP loan and moved to takeout only.

He put up a tent and opened for business outside during the summer, but shut down again when the tourist crowd left after Labor Day, which gave him the time to do something else, like run against Rob, who actually had a lot of the basic facts of Kirk's story right. I grew up in Stevens Point, Wisconsin. I'd call it affirmative action for flyover states. Like Harvard University takes 13 kids from Wisconsin no matter what every year. And I was lucky enough to be blessed to get accepted to Harvard.

So I went to school there. I was a Republican growing up, and I think Harvard and majoring in government and reading political philosophy about why government should exist, that's what made me a Democrat. So after college, Kirk goes to Silicon Valley and makes a lot of money. Then he moves to New York and tries to make it as a singer, but winds up in politics. Believe it or not, I was Anthony Weiner's policy director when he ran for mayor. That campaign notoriously went down in flames. Unfortunately, his addictions came back, and so that was a defunct campaign. But right around that time, my wife was diagnosed with lung cancer.

So I told her we should come to Manaqua because it's gorgeous in the summertime. So we came here, and I bought this place because I just wanted to be more part of the community and not just work remotely. So I've owned it now six years. My wife passed about two years ago. I was completely content to sing on this stage and, you know, do fun things with food and with wine and with beer. And then in April, as Kirk was watching the Republicans who control Wisconsin's state legislature respond to the pandemic, he says he became furious. He thought the party was putting people at risk. And that's when he decided to get into the race.

So I think I know the answer to this, but I just want to ask it to make sure. So while some business owners were feeling that the government was overstepping, that the rules were too strict, that their businesses were on life support. You were frustrated not because the regulation was too strong and the mandates were too strict, but that you weren't seeing the rules enforced strictly enough. Yeah, absolutely. So you're very much running against the Republicans. Yeah. I mean, there's very little chance that I'd win this election. So to me, it gave me a platform to remind everybody constantly that we're hurting from COVID.

There's no plan for COVID. And the Republicans did this to us. So Kirk is essentially running on the pandemic. And he knows he stands little chance of beating Rob. I have been so safe and I've been so concerned about my employees and my patrons. I have been so safe and I've been so concerned about my employees and my patrons. And I know that this guy is like the antithesis of that. How would you describe the electorate in this region? And how do you make sense of their support for Donald Trump?

I don't know. I can't explain that. I can't. I can't tell you. I can't tell you why Trump is so popular up in this region. I have to believe it's because they're consuming the wrong news. I can't tell you. I can't tell you why Trump is so popular up in this region. I have to believe it's because they're consuming the wrong news. A lot of them, I feel, haven't been equipped with the tools of media literacy or critical thinking skills to be able to discern if they're being told something that doesn't quite gel or is not true. Do you expect long-term implications to the business

based on sort of having a giant Biden sign up there? There will be locals that never come here again, for sure. There was one real estate agent. He was kind of the head of the office, and he had had his Christmas party here a year ago. And he private messaged me, and he had had his Christmas party here a year ago. Um, and he private messaged me and he said, we're going to run you out of town and you better keep an eye open tonight. And, you know, he was put on leave and they was forced to take like anger management courses because of that text. But, but that's some of the types of virulent stuff

that I've been getting. How does that make you feel about your community? Like, how does that make you feel about your future here in the community? Yeah, I mean, I've questioned it. Before I was outspokenly liberal, I felt welcomed to this community. Like the town board, you know, said you've added culture to our town and people thanked me all the time. And they loved when I got up and sang French Edith Piaf songs, you know, it's like, they haven't gotten that before here. So I felt really great about being here. Um, that's kind of a bigger fish in a smaller pond. And I felt like people like were like, thanked me for bringing more culture to this town.

So right now, yeah, I mean, I feel like when I go to the grocery store, people look at me cross-eyed because they're so mad at me because of what I've stood for in the last couple months. So it's weird, for sure. That just makes me think of a couple things you said, and it has to do with the feeling of belonging in this town. I'm just curious, like you saying, you're a bigger fish in a smaller pond.

When you look at people around town and the way they vote, maybe it has to do with the fact that they don't have the same critical thinking or media literacy skills. I think your opponent wants to characterize you as someone who doesn't belong here, who came from Harvard and does not have anything in common with the people who live here. And I'm curious what you make of that argument. Yeah. I mean, he wants to paint me that way. And I always say, what's wrong with a little more intelligence in a small town?

I always say, what's wrong with a little more intelligence in a small town? You know, what's wrong with kind of planning ahead, you know, or what's wrong with, you know, using critical thinking skills to figure out how to make the economy better in this area? I think I'm an asset to the community because I can bring ideas from Restaurant Week in New York City. I can bring ideas of like big data that Bloomberg used to like fix potholes. You know, it's like all that government shit that is light years ahead of what we're doing here, I've experienced. Yeah, what's wrong with being elitist? Why are we so anti-intellectual

right now? Why is having a beer with somebody more of an attribute to vote for them than potentially thinking they're a cocky asshole but believing that they can make your life better. You know, what's wrong with that? Walking through the snow on a very cold day in Wisconsin. So on our second day in Minocqua, kind of the main drag is the next three blocks or so in front of us. Luke, Andy, and I took a walk into town. We walked through the snow, up to a bunch of local businesses along the city's main drag. Looks like a jewelry consignment shop says masks are required.

And we just popped in. Hello. Hi there. To ask people who were working there, many of whom were business owners themselves, what side of this issue that Kirk and Rob were battling out? We've spoken to some small business owners, some of whom are really frustrated with the mandates coming down from Madison, and some of them saying that they feel as if they wish their community were taking it more seriously.

They came down on. Where do you guys fall on that? We wish that the community and the rest of the state would take it more seriously. And just like Robin Kirk. I really feel as we wear the masks that we somehow are not doing our bodies much good. The community was split. It's very important to control this pandemic. The mandates seem fairly simple. Yes, the mandates are simple. Just wearing a mask is going to save

thousands of lives. I'm not against the mask, but people are taking it to the extreme though. They're taking it a little bit too far. Yeah, yeah. And do you see that hurting your business? Yeah. It is getting to be a bit much to still have masks on. Just getting to be a lot. I want it to be over, but I want to do the right thing. You want the mask mandates and the COVID and all the restrictions to be done. Yes, but I think they're important. Like we can't keep spreading it to each other. It's made a dent in the business. There's no question about that. But I care about people, and I hope they care about me, and that's why I think masks are really, really important.

Try not to talk about it with a lot of people because everybody has their own feelings. It's not something always to bring up. Eventually, Luke and I went off on our own to meet some people in town. The Shade Tree Bookstore. While Andy walked into the local bookstore. Good morning.

Hi there. I'm going around talking to local folks about the election coming up. And that's where I met the owner, Tracy. I think the whole mask thing has really worn out its welcome. Who was working the register without a mask and who turned out to be the most forceful proponent that we had yet met against the restrictions and guidelines coming from Madison. I like to breathe fresh air and I don't think wearing a dirty mask all day is really great for my health.

So I feel fine not wearing a mask. I support people if they want to wear it. I don't discourage them if they don't want to wear it. I just leave it up to the people to make their personal decisions because, well, until Biden gets elected, this is America and it should be the people's choice to choose whether they want to wear a mask or not. But I see people putting them on tiny children, and I do not support that. Hi, I'm sorry. I'm in line here yakking. You probably want to check out here. As we were sitting there talking, a customer who had a few books in her hand had walked up and was patiently waiting in line behind me.

What do you think about what she's saying? Go girl. Go girl. I totally agree with her. What we're missing is common sense. Masks have their places, but they are not a cure-all. Well, you're wearing a mask. Is there a reason? I don't want to offend other people. And I guess that's... I don't want to get in fights. I don't want, you know, people might get mad or something, but I myself, I don't feel that a mask really does much. People need to use their heads. Do we want to eat? Do we want to be able to come in here? Do I want to be able to buy groceries? Do I want to be able to do my normal things I do in life? Then we have to kind of keep things open. We can't shut everything down. It'd be a disaster. And with that, the customer leaves.

These are my colleagues. They found me here. Reed and Luke come by the store. We got a little cold waiting outside. It's okay. I'm sure Andy asked you about the races. What do you think about the brewery down the street? And they ask Tracy about Kirk. Do you know the owner? Yeah. Do you like him?

I don't want to say on the record. No, no. I guess I'll leave that alone, but yeah, good luck to that guy. Just a head shaker. You know, I guess it's a little different because, you know, our town, you guys see it, it's tiny.

And, you know, if you went on his Facebook and stuff, you know, he called all of us up here idiots, you know, and then, you know, went on Facebook to try to apologize, you know, like a mini Joe Biden. Right away, she made a parallel to the kind of Democrat that Joe Biden is working very hard this year to convince voters in Wisconsin and across the Midwest that he is not. voters in Wisconsin and across the Midwest that he is not. And, you know, it's insulting to people that share, you know, the space with him and other business owners. It's like, I would never, you know, disrespect other business owners based on their, you know, decisions or, you know, what do you believe? Oh, I can't talk to you because you don't believe the same thing I do. I mean, you know, we're all adults, we're all business owners. So it's his personal choice.

I just, you know, for me, I would have not done that. Perfect. Cool. Well, thanks, guys. Thank you. Nice to meet you. Yeah, safe travels back. We'd spent the whole day walking up and down the sidewalks of Manaqua,

a town that is expected to again support Donald Trump this year, even if the state of Wisconsin does not. And by the end, we were tired, and we were thinking about how a part of the story here in the Northwoods, like so many other places that we've been to covering this election, is a story of how lines have deepened over the last four years and how those lines transcend the candidates

that will be on the ballot today. And there's a real sense that no matter the outcome of this race, these divisions will still be here after the votes are counted. That night, Luke and I went back to the Algen, Rob's bar. He is right there. Oh, he is here.

I am. You guys, how was your day? It was long. As we walked in, none of the staff was wearing a mask, but they quickly slipped them on when they saw us. Do you guys want to sit? Yeah, grab a chair, whatever. You want to talk to a couple people? If that's all right. Hey, Pat.

Rob introduced us to some folks at the bar. Okay. So, President, I'm a diehard Trump supporter. Do you think he's going to win? Yes, I do. And we heard a lot of the same stuff that we'd been hearing about all day. The disease is what it is,

and I think it just needs to run its course, just like smallpox had to and all the other ailments that went on years ago, you know, had to run their course and has to run its course through the rest of us now. Eventually, we split up. I sat down to talk to Rob and Luke went over and struck up a conversation with the bartender. Debbie, you probably, you don't have like any bandwidth, any like time to talk to us right now, do you?

No. Because you're working. What is it that you wanted to talk about? I guess I'm just curious, like just trying to talk to everybody who's here about how they feel about the election and stuff like that. I would be really bad to speak to about the election. Oh, really? Because I've been having nightmares about it. It's just, I can't sleep at night.

I'm just a wreck. I think that makes you kind of good to talk to about the election. No, that's pretty bad. Honestly, I can't sleep at night. I get like one, two hours sleep. What makes you so nervous? Because I'm just worried. I'm worried about our economy. I'm worried about what if Trump gets elected again? What if Biden gets in? I mean, it's going to be one or the other, and it scares the hell out of me because I don't really want either one of them in. What is going to happen?

It scares me. I have two brand-new grandbabies, and I am terrified of what's going to happen. So you're not sure how you're going to vote? No, I don't know how I'm going to vote. I don't know. Do you think about it a lot? A lot. Do you plan on voting? I absolutely vote. I voted ever since I was 18. Can I ask you, did you vote in 2016 or no? I did. Can you tell me who you voted for? I voted for Trump. You did? I did. But you don't feel the same now that you did back in 2016? No, I don't.

I think I voted for Trump mainly because I thought that he was the better of the two. I mean, I wasn't crazy about Hillary. And now Trump has said so many horrible things. And I know it's just his personality. But I'm having a problem getting past his personality. Do you know what I'm saying? Were you talking? Oh, okay. But that's it. I don't know what I'm going to do. I'm confused. You know, I actually agree with Trump that we can't close down anymore. I mean, we are losing our butts when it comes to working. I mean, I still have to support myself, and this is what I do for a living.

You know, and obviously there's not a heck of a lot going on, and I believe that it's because of the coronavirus. But right now, we're peaking. So I don't blame people. I don't want my mother coming out. I had the virus already. Was that bad for you? Yes. How easy did it happen?

It was a month ago. And, yeah, it stunk. And I was thinking, well, you know, you have to be worried if you're old people. Well, I'm old people. I didn't think I was, but I am. I'll vouch for her on that one. I am too. But yeah, I mean, it's, it was not good. And I worry about my mom. I mean, she's 80 and I don't, I bring her groceries and now I can go in and just sit and visit with her because I've had it already and I'm not worried about exposing it to her.

I don't know. I'm very confused. Like I said, I'm very anxious and nervous about the whole thing. You don't know how it's going to affect you. But I worry about how Trump tweets. I worry that Biden seems to be slipping a little bit. I worry. I worry, worry, worry. It's what you do. It's what you do.

It's what I do. I'm a worrywart. No decision. No. And coming down to the wire, too. I need to decide. See you later, Stinky. His last name is Stenchky.

His last name is really Stenchky. Yeah. That's a great nickname. So he's Stinky. I know. He's a great guy. He's a great guy. No, I just, I hope that this will be, I hope everybody will be kind. And that's all I have to say about that. There you go.

It makes no sense whatsoever. The sounds of division we heard in the Northwoods last week are the same sounds we heard all over America this year. It's a very divided state. I personally think people don't like all the hate that exists with this division. It really is two different worlds, totally. Like, how do you think we reconcile that, you know? Well, you can't, really. Well, just, Bob, you know.

You can't. The vast majority of people just disagree on everything. But there is one thing Wisconsinites agree on. Do you usually vote? I usually vote. This time I need my vote to cancel out my mother's vote. Are you guys planning on voting? Yes. Yes. Yes? I already voted. I did mail-in. Are you guys planning on voting this year? I already voted. You already voted? I already voted. You already

voted? Do you plan on voting in this year's election? I already have. You've already done early voting? Do you plan on voting in the election next week? I do. I've just always voted. Year after year, Wisconsin has one of the highest voter turnout rates in the country. I've never actually served for the country, but I know that the people who have served, I think it's respect to them. Our parents and our grandparents gave their lives so we could do this,

so I think it's very important to vote. Well parents and our grandparents gave their lives so we could do this. So I think it's very important to vote. Well, it's important. I mean, if you don't vote, you have no say. I mean, it's whoever is president. If you don't like him, you didn't vote. It's your problem. I think it's important. If you're not happy, go vote for someone else. If you are happy, then vote for the same person if you want to. But I always vote. I always make sure to vote. And this year, Wisconsin and the country as a whole are expected to have the highest voter turnout maybe ever.

So you believe voting matters? Yes, I do. Here's what else you need to know today. This does not look like a second place finish. On the final full day of the presidential campaign, President Trump traveled to the battleground states of North Carolina, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania, where he disputed polls showing he's behind and told a crowd in Scranton that their state held the key to his reelection. You know, we win Pennsylvania, we win the whole deal. You know that, right? Just like last time. We want to have the same result as we had last time. Hello, Scranton. Meanwhile, Joe Biden held rallies in Pennsylvania and in Ohio. Ohio, one more day. One more day. Where during an event in Cleveland, he denounced what

he said were attempts by the president to suppress votes and encouraged the audience to turn the page on the Trump era. When American votes, America will be heard. When America is heard, I believe the message is going to be loud and clear. It's time for Donald Trump to pack his bags and go home. We're done. That's it for The Daily. I'm Michael Barbaro. I'll see you this evening from 4 p.m. to 8 p.m. Eastern for our live election night broadcast. You can listen at nytimes.com slash thedaily and on the New York Times iPhone app.

See you then.