The Daily - The Firing of Kristi Noem

Episode Date: March 6, 2026

On Thursday, President Trump fired Kristi Noem, his secretary of homeland security, whose agency is at the center of his second-term agenda. Hamed Aleaziz, who covers the department, explains how Ms. Noem ended up losing the president’s trust.  Guest: Hamed Aleaziz, who covers the Department of Homeland Security and immigration policy in the United States for The New York Times. Background reading:  Bulletproof vests and Rolex watches: the rise and fall of Kristi Noem. Mr. Trump said he would replace Ms. Noem with an Oklahoma senator, Markwayne Mullin. Photo: Nicole Hester/USA Today Network, via Reuters For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday.  Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

From the New York Times, I'm Michael Barrow. This is the Daily. On Thursday afternoon, President Trump fired his Secretary of Homeland Security, Christy Knoe, ousting the leader of an agency at the center of his second-term agenda. Today, my colleague Hamid Ali Aziz, on Hal No, who did everything possible to ingratiate herself with Trump, ended up losing his trust. It's Friday, March 6th. Howman, good evening.

Good evening. I just want to be candid. This was not our plan for Friday's episode of the Daily, but it is a seismic development for this administration and we felt we had to cover it. Yeah, definitely.

I mean, Kristineau was the face of President Trump's aggressive crackdown on immigrants across the United States. She was unapologian. and President Trump backed her over and over again after all the controversies she faced over the last six months. And then really abruptly, President Trump notifies her just moments before she gives a speech to folks on law enforcement, she's fired.

Right. And the other reason why this felt so enormous is that the entire premise of the second term Trump cabinet was that it was kind of unfirable in theory. In Trump's first term, he fired people left and right because he had picked in his mind all the wrong people. But the second term was this huge corrective, and he was only going to pick ideologically aligned cabinet members who were not going to push back,

who were going to do exactly what he wanted, and he wouldn't fire people, even if they got into pretty serious trouble. That was really the case until Nome, who becomes the very first cabinet secretary to be fired in the second term. Yeah, I mean, it became pretty clear that Trump was trying to give off this appearance of stability

and the fact that they had everything under control. And Christy Noem really was among the most loyal of his cabinet secretaries. I mean, she really put President Trump at the center of whatever she did. She was always talking about President Trump in fulfilling President Trump's promises.

And ultimately it felt like that almost made her somewhat invincible to a firing. Right, until now. So let's tell the story of how she became no longer invincible, despite doing what seemed month after month, like exactly what it was Trump wanted her to do and celebrating Trump the whole way. It was surprising that President Trump selected her. The DHS secretary role really is perhaps the biggest role for his biggest promise, right? The promise of mass deportations.

You need somebody in place to carry through a really ambitious and difficult operation. And the selection of Christyneum was a surprise because on the national level, she was primarily known for writing a memoir in which she, She admitted to shooting her own dog that she felt like was misbehaving. Right. And of course, she was the governor of South Dakota. She'd been at Congresswoman as well. But President Trump, he decides that she is the right person to run this massive agency and in many ways takes her from political irrelevance to the biggest story of 2025.

And first of all, I want to thank El Salvador and their president for their partnership with the United States of America. And right away, she embraces this idea of being out there. Here at Seacott today and visiting this facility. Going to El Salvador where, you know, she's filming a spot in front of shirtless prisoners. First of all, do not come to our country illegally. You will be removed and you will be prosecuted. saying to undocumented immigrants that you could end up here if we catch you. But know that this facility is one of the tools in our toolkit that we will use if you commit crimes against the American people.

And we should say she's standing in front of a prison that we've reported on where people, including those who were in the United States, claim to have been tortured and sexually abused. Yeah, exactly. And this comes right at that time last spring as the, The Trump administration is really unleashing DHS on immigrant communities across this country. There's Christy Aung. You're in New York City this morning. We are getting the dirt banks off these streets. She's standing alongside these ice officers and she's got the tactical ice vest on.

She's at times holding weaponry. We'll go. You're going to go. You're going to go home. And you're going to get prosecuted. You know, she is not a law enforcement officer. going inside up to the homes where people are being arrested, as if she's part of the operation.

Right, she wants it to be known that she is at the tip of the spear of these enforcement actions. She's on the front line. She is becoming, it seems like, quite proudly, synonymous with that. Yeah, it felt like she wanted to be at the center of this story. You know, she wanted to be on front. Fox News on these conservative news outlets day after day spreading this message that I'm the one that's going to carry through President Trump's biggest promise.

But really, her effort to put herself at the center of the Trump administration's deportation campaign, put her down a path that ultimately haunted her. And really the thing that you can point to is that she stars in these ads. I'm Christy Knobe. From the Cowboys Who Tamed the West to the Titans Who Built Our Cities. In which she's riding on horseback, she's wearing a cowboy hat. America has always rewarded vision and grit. Our greatness calls people to us for a chance to prosper.

She's almost giving a speech about, the greatness of America. Anyone who searches for freedom can always find a home here, but that freedom's a precious thing, and we defend it vigorously. And then warning individuals who are in the country illegally.

You cross the border illegally, we'll find you. That DHS will come and find them. But if you come here the right way, your American dream can be as big as these endless skies. From President Trump and me, welcome home.

And it's not just, just that ad. If you are here illegally, you're next. There are other ads as well. President Trump has a clear message for those that are in our country illegally. Leave now. Leave now. Where she's encouraging immigrants to self-deport. The choice is yours. America welcomes those who respect our laws because a strong nation

is a safe nation. And these ads, which are playing on TV, they're everywhere, where ProPublica late last year reports that they cost the American taxpayer $200 million. I think that really started to concern some lawmakers and some folks that perhaps this whole effort of her being DHS secretary was really just to further her own political ambitions. And of course, as that's happening, the enforcement actions of the agents she's overseeing at the Department of, of Homeland Security become themselves deeply polarizing. How does that start to factor into what will come to Haunter? Yeah, you know, you see over the last half year DHS agents chasing people in Home Depot parking lots,

in car washes, allegations of racial profiling, U.S. citizens swept up, and even all throughout this bad imagery that even some of the President Trump's supporters, including Joe Rogan call out repeatedly. Trump stands by her. Right. And then you get to Minneapolis. And Minneapolis really is where things start to fall apart for her. There's the shooting of Alex Freddie,

in which agents tackle him to the ground and then shoot him. Good evening, everyone. Thank you for being here. There are two different things that I... Christy Noem, hours after the shooting. I do want to address the tragic situation that we see. saw in Minneapolis today that unfolded on the streets. She goes further than even the agency had in their own statement, which had raised some

questions. This individual who came with weapons and ammunition to stop a law enforcement operation of federal law enforcement officers committed an act of domestic terrorism. That's the facts. She starts saying that he's a domestic terrorist. He attacked the officers at the scene. It says things that turn out not to be true. Exactly.

And, you know, in many ways, people question her credibility. Right. At this really key juncture where Minneapolis is teetering, where two American citizens at this point have been shot dead, protests are raging. There are hundreds of DHS agents on the streets of Minneapolis. It's a critical moment. and Noam is just not able to handle it without saying something that is pretty clearly inaccurate at that time. And President Trump, it doesn't fire her, doesn't get rid of her. But it is an acknowledgement that she did not handle it well when he brings in Tom Homan, his borders are, to take over Minneapolis and tells them to calm the situation down.

That is something that never happens where a DHS secretary, the person in charge of these immigration operations, is put to the side for a White House official and told you don't need to take care of this anymore. Right. She's getting layered, which when you're a cabinet secretary, there really shouldn't be any layers between you

and the president. And then things get worse for. Secretary Nome, courtesy, as I recall it, of our colleagues at the Wall Street Journal. Yeah, really just as Tom Homan is starting to quiet the situation down in Minneapolis, this story lands from the journal, which gets into some of the sorted details of Christy Noem and her relationship to her senior advisor, Corey Lewandowski, a former Trump campaign official, a controversial figure in his own right. And Lewandowski is a special government employee,

and he's this kind of shadowy figure who is everywhere with Christine Ome. He is the person who is yelling at ICE officials for not doing enough on arrests and deportations. He is really in many ways this incredibly powerful figure across DHS in particular at ICE, And ultimately, again, he is not a DHS employee. He is a special government employee, just like Elon Musk was when he started Doge last year.

So he really, in theory, should not have the authority that this journal reporting suggests that he has inside the Department of Homeland Security. Yeah, exactly. And he's essentially running this agency alongside Noam, having unlimited power to do. whatever they wanted to do, firing pilots, issuing polygraphs. Wow. The idea of polygraphing people left and right really concerned a lot of people who are working pretty hard to carry through on this really difficult task of deportations and arrests. So this story really got the heart of the kind of drama and the situation at the top of the agency.

And I think crucially also really kind of heavily insinuated that Lewandowski and Nome, both of whom are married, were having an affair, which obviously has some major complications given the fact that they were essentially running the agency together. And yet, despite this journal reporting, Trump does not act. He doesn't, but Noam ultimately has to go to Capitol Hill for a pair of hearings in which congressional officials bring up all of these allegations, all of these exploits, and her response, her reaction, and how she handled that situation, it was a disaster and really seal their fate. We'll be right back. Obviously, there's a lot of interest in this hearing. I thank the secretary for coming. So, Hamid, tell us about this disastrous testimony that Christy Noem delivers before Congress.

That really does become her undoing. Yeah, it feels like the culmination of everything that's happened over this past year where all of her potential embarrassments come to Capitol Hill. Secretary, Noam, we're glad to meet you, even though it's been 13 months since you took office in more than five weeks since two American citizens were shot dead in Minneapolis. And Democrats are incredibly aggressive. Can you explain why you decided to brand these victims who are not protesting the activities

of your agency and were killed as a result of it? How did you think that calling them domestic terrorist was somehow going to calm the situation. Bringing up all of her previous comments in Minneapolis. Is it so hard to say you were wrong? And even beyond that, they get quite personal. There are some pretty notable exchanges with Congresswoman Kamelger Dove. So Secretary Nome, at any time during your tenure, as Director of Department of Homeland Security, Have you had sexual relations with Corey Lewandowski? Who really directly asks her about her relationship with Lewandowski. Mr. Chairman, I am shocked that we're going down and peddling tabloid garbage in this committee today.

And she doesn't really answer the question. And you should be able to answer the question is that what we do at the Department of Homeland Street, and without any hesitation, every single day is to protect this country, if someone is asking if you or any federal official is sleeping with their subordinate, that should be the easiest, you should be wanting to answer that question. But the real surprise with these hearings was that Republicans like Tom Tillis, like Senator Kennedy from Louisiana, they're starting to point some really intense questioning of Christy. I don't know that we'll have time for you to respond because I'm giving you a performance evaluation here.

I'm not looking for a response. He is incredibly frustrated and angry. What we've seen is innocent people getting detained that turn out are American citizens. He feels unencumbered. We just want numbers. We want a thousand a day, six thousand a day, nine thousand a day because numbers matter, right? No, they don't matter. Quality matters, not quantity, quality.

He's almost giving off this really intense disappointment of her tenure at the Department of Homeland Security. What we've seen is a disaster. Under your leadership, Ms. Knoem, a disaster. Right, even disgust. Yeah, he is just pissed off. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And then... Thank you, Madam Secretary, for being here. Here comes Kennedy, somebody who is a staunch supporter of the Trump administration.

properly vetting people at the southern border is not racist, is it? No. Somebody who you would expect easier questions to come from. Could you answer for the record? No, it is not racist. But right as he starts going... I believe you have a policy, Madam Secretary, that you have to approve all contracts at your department.

He is really getting into detailed questions about what was happening at her department. How do you square that concern for waste, which I share, with the fact that you have spent $220 million running television advertisements that feature you prominently? He is questioning her about this ad campaign and all the money that's spent there. We went through the legal processes. Did it correct?

Did the president know you're going to do this? Yes. He did? Yes. Okay. And pushing her on whether or not the president was approving this type of massive expenditure. I mean, to me, it puts the president in a terribly awkward spot. And I'm not saying you're not telling the truth.

It's just hard for me to believe, knowing the president that he would have agreed to that. And again, this. This is a moment where Nome, somewhat like Minneapolis, starts to dig her own grave by saying, yes, the president did approve this. And one thing, Senator, I think would be helpful to know is how effective that communications has been. Well, they were effective in your name recognition. And ultimately, his line of questioning is really quite. effective because President Trump gets wind of her comment and is asked on the record by Reuters whether or not he did, in fact, approve this spending like Christine Holmes said he did.

And he says, no, I didn't approve that. Kennedy himself says that when he spoke with President Trump, he was, I believe he said mad as a hornet. Right. I mean, basically the president is calling his DHS secretary. Terry, a liar. Yeah. And a few hours later, she's fired from her job as secretary, and Trump announces that he's given her this previously non-existent job as the special envoy for the Shield of America's, a job that nobody had ever heard of before, and something that is really mocked as it gets

announced. You know, that sequence of events certainly suggests to me that while Trump's dismay with Nome has perhaps been building for some time for a variety of reasons, in the end, what really cost her her job was invoking Trump's name as she sought to defend something that people in both parties regard is kind of wasteful and self-promotional, these $200 million ads. And I wonder if that's the way you see it, that she kind of violated the president's golden rule, which is, don't throw me under the bus.

Yeah. It's really this moment where Kennedy is asking this question of Noam and what Trump knew, where Noam connects Trump to this idea of wasteful spending. And he doesn't want to be connected to this and he doesn't want to be used as the justification and the excuse for this massive amount of money spent on her ad campaign. This aggressive immigration approach is ultimately not what got Christine Hone fired.

It's really what happened with some of these stories connecting her to the spending. and her performance on the hill. I mean, the president wants people to be good on TV. And in this moment, it was, I think, really seen as an embarrassment and a joke. I don't think President Trump wanted to deal with that anymore. Well, if this is not a larger change, of course, for the Department of Homeland Security

and its approach to immigration, I think we should talk about the person Trump has picked to replace Noam and run the department Senator Mark Wayne Mullen of Oklahoma. What should we know about him, and how much is he basically just going to keep the existing approach that Nome did with perhaps more restraint in his testimony before Congress? Mullen is somebody like many Republican politicians.

He is somebody who supports President Trump's deportation agenda. He has been very vocal about backing the ideas, of a more aggressive DHS. But I think, you know, somewhat more to the point, he's this big guy, an ex-MMA fighter, and for many Americans, their first experience with him was when he challenged the head of the Teamsters Union

to a fight in this incredibly viral video. Sir, this is a time, this is a place. If you want to run your mouth, we can be to consenting adults, we can finish it here. Okay, that's fine. Perfect. You want to do it now? I'd love to do it right now.

We'll stand your butt up then. You stand your butt up. Oh, hold it. Oh, stop it. Is that your solution? No, no, sit down. During a hearing before Congress. Yeah, during a hearing before Congress?

No, I have the mind. I'm sorry. This is what he said. Can I respond? No, you can't. This is a hearing. And God knows the American people have enough of contempt for Congress. Let's not make it worse.

I don't like drugs and bullies. I don't like you. Hold it. He's somebody who doesn't shy away from a fight. He's willing to go back and forth with reporters, with other politicians. And I think Trump likes that, and he perhaps wants that from someone who's leading this massive law enforcement agency. Right. So overall, Mullen is a stick-to-your-gun's kind of appointment over a THS.

And rather than this being a referendum on the ways in which immigration enforcement under Nome has worked. This really, at the end of the day, is only a referendum on Christy Nome herself. Yeah, I think so, and I think perhaps there is some expectation that without some of this drama, without some of these scandals,

that maybe Mullen can be more effective in following through with this deportation agenda, really in the face of all this polling that shows that Americans are starting to get disgusted by what they're seeing on the streets, Trump hasn't backed away from any of that. Right. So it's going to be on Mullen to pick this up and see this aggressive and at times unpopular campaign through for its next chapter. Well, Hamid. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

Thank you for having me. On Thursday afternoon, Democrats in Congress said that Nome's firing would not change their plans to keep the Homeland Security Department defunded until they see major reforms across the agency. Meanwhile... Hey, Christy Nome, don't let the door hit you on the way out. Several of the party's leaders openly celebrated Nome's ouster. Governor J.B. Pritzk,

of Illinois, a loud critic of Noam's immigration tactics in his state, warned Noam that leaving the job would not absolve her from blame. Here's your legacy. Corruption and chaos. Parents and children tear gassed. Moms and nurses. U.S. citizens getting shot in the face. Now that you're gone, don't think you get to just walk away. I guarantee you, you will still be held accountable. We'll be right back. Here's what else you need to know today. On Thursday afternoon, the U.S. House of Representatives blocked a bipartisan measure that sought to rein in President Trump's ability to continue the war in Iran without congressional approval.

Because the U.S. Senate had blocked a similar measure a day earlier, Trump now faces no constraints on his ability to wage the war. In Europe, Britain and Italy accelerated their deployment of military equipment and personnel to protect their citizens and infrastructure in the Middle East, as the war continued to spill out beyond the region. For many European governments, the deployments are occurring despite their skepticism of the war. While the region has been plunged into chaos, my focus is providing calm, level-headed leadership

in the national interest. During a news conference on Thursday, British Prime Minister Kier Starrmer reaffirmed his decision not to participate in the attack against Iran, even if it upsets the United States. And it means having the strength to stand firm by our values and our principles,

no matter the pressure to do otherwise. Meanwhile, the fighting raged on. The U.S. military said it was finding and destroying Iran's mobile missile launchers, while Iran struck pro-American Kurdish forces in Iraq, who are seen as allies and America's plan to overthrow the Iranian regime. Finally, Iran's foreign minister accused the U.S. of committing a, quote, atrocity at war by sinking an Iranian warship off the coast of Sri Lanka on Wednesday, and killing many of the sailors on board.

The ship was thousands of miles away from the conflict when it was struck. Today's episode was produced by Olivia Nat, Carlos Prieto, and Caitlin O'Keefe. It was edited by Rachel Quester and Maria Bern. Contains music by Marion Lazano, Alicia E. Tube, Rowan Misto, and Diane Wong. Our theme music is by Wonderly. This episode was engineered by Alyssa Moxley. That's it for the daily. I'm Michael Barbar.

See you on Sunday.