The Daily - The Freshmen: Mikie Sherrill

Episode Date: August 12, 2019

Since Democrats retook the House last November, the world has come to know the progressive and divisive vision of four freshmen congresswomen known as “the squad.” But it was moderates — less well-known and laser-focused on common ground between Democrats and Republicans — who were responsible for flipping seats and winning back the House. Today, we meet a moderate Democrat who offers a competing vision of the party ahead of the 2020 election. Guests: Representative Mikie Sherrill, Democrat of New Jersey; Kate Zernike, a political reporter for The New York Times; and Lisa Chow and Rachel Quester, producers for “The Daily.” For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Background reading: Disconnects between liberal and moderate House Democrats have exploded into public view at critical moments during their seven months in power.The two rounds of Democratic presidential debates showcased divisions over ideology and identity in a party that appears united only in its desire to defeat President Trump.

From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily. A record-breaking number of women ran in the midterms and won last night. Since Democrats retook the House last November, the world has come to know the squad. The four far-left congresswomen. My name is Ayanna Pressley. Rashida Tlaib. Congresswoman Ilhan Omar. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

Call themselves the squad. The squad. I call them the sand squad. S-I-N. Four freshmen who won their seats by taking progressive and divisive positions on everything from immigration. You have called to abolish ICE. We don't need to be protected from immigrants. We need to be protected from this president.

To impeaching the president. It is not if he will be impeached, but when. They've inspired liberal Democrats. Justice is not a concept we read about in the book. Justice is about the water we drink. Justice is about the air we breathe. And given Republicans a political weapon for 2020. These freshman members of Congress are radical and extreme. Seems to me, if I may say so, that the squad now runs the show. These are people that hate our country.

They hate our country. But. People are really concerned about traffic and people are concerned about health care. It was actually moderate Democrats, far quieter, less well-known. The Affordable Care Act is here to stay. We must protect it as we must protect Medicare. And Lee's are focused on the few issues on which Democrats and Republicans in their district agree. Overall, the two top issues are health care and the economy.

Infrastructure, tax reform, health care. Who were responsible for winning back the House by convincing voters who supported Trump to vote for a Democrat. Today, the moderate who embodied that flip and offers a competing vision of the party for the Democrats in 2020. Our critical role to play is to form broad-based coalitions to get legislation passed in Congress. Representative Mikey Sherrill of New Jersey. What we need to do is attack the problem and fix it. And some people, I think, would say it's so fundamentally flawed,

you have to kind of blow up the system. I would not be one of those people. It's Monday, August 12th. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so, um, yeah. Okay. So, um, you want to... How are we on time? Back in April, my colleagues Lisa Chow and Kate Czernicki began following Congresswoman Sherrill.

All right. So, Kate, tell me a little bit about Mikey Sherrill. Mikey Sherrill is one of these moderates who flipped the House in 2018. And she's actually the best example of what we saw because her district had the biggest swing of Republican voters to a Democratic candidate of any district in the country. This was a district that had voted for Trump in 2016 and had been held by a Republican for 34 years. This was a really, really big win for her. And so what do you think convinced people to vote for her? She had military experience. She was a former Navy helicopter pilot,

which took care of some of the criticism that had hobbled women who ran before, which was that they weren't tough enough. On top of that, she's a mother of four and she's a former federal prosecutor. And that trifecta really resonated with voters in her district, as it did for women with similar backgrounds who also flipped Republican districts last year. Oh, she's right in front of us. OK. So back in April, we went to New Jersey to meet her. Right.

Hi. How are you? I'm Lisa, by the way. I'm Mikey. Nice to see you. Hi. I'm Lisa, by the way. I'm Mikey. Nice to see you. She was in her district for the week, and she was attending a listening session with local politicians at the town hall in Madison, New Jersey.

Am I getting miked up? Yes. Okay. It's around 9 in the morning, her first meeting of the day. Good morning. So good to see you. And we go to this large room where people are sitting in rows, and all the officials are up on the dais. They're waiting there for Mikey. So with that, I would like to welcome Mikey Sherrill, our congresswoman.

And they're all there to talk about possibly the most important issue in this district. That single lane access to 287 North from 24 West. Traffic. Beyond capacity at all hours. I've been doing it all hours. It's always backed up. Mikey's district is about 15 miles west of New York City, and many of her constituents commute into the city to work. Train tunnels into the city are about 100 years old. They desperately need repair. Trains are chronically delayed.

And so you have a lot of people who just resort to driving. We have to look at the greater picture. We can come up with Band-Aid treatments for intersections of what we want to do, traffic lights, etc. This is one of the big issues that got Mikey elected. You just heard her constantly talking about the need to invest in new infrastructure. Hopefully the state and our mayors can come together on what the best solution is. And I think the reason Mikey was such an effective candidate in what's now considered a purple district, she spent a lot of time figuring out what people here care most about and what they agree on. So easing traffic issues, protecting health care, making sure people with

pre-existing conditions didn't lose their health care, trying to get back the property tax deductions that were eliminated in President Trump's tax bill, and what she called sensible gun control, things like universal background checks. So to the extent that we could come together. And she stayed on those messages pretty relentlessly. So you combine that with her military background and you get a pretty powerful, moderate candidate. And I applaud you, Mayor. I'm a former Navy helicopter pilot. I have landed at night on very small ships and I occasionally avoid that exit when you have to get over three lanes. So as interested as we are in hearing Mikey talk about traffic, there's actually another thing happening.

Right. Okay, so we just got 937. We just got our first news alert that Barr is about to address reporters. This was April 18th. It's the day that we're going to see the Mueller report for the first time. So while Mikey is in this meeting in Madison, New Jersey, talking about traffic... Mayor, can I just cut in? Because I think you raised a really important point. Attorney General William Barr is in Washington about to speak to reporters, and he's going to release the report later in the day. News conference is just starting. Should we watch the video?

So we're standing in the back of this meeting, listening to these local leaders talk about traffic, but we're kind of fixated on our phones and trying to figure out what's going on with Barr. So finally, we just leave the room and go into the hallway and watch the news conference on our phones. In other words, there was no evidence of the Trump campaign collusion with the Russian government's hacking. The split screen here is kind of funny. Mikey's approach to this whole thing seems to be, pretend it's not happening, stick with your traffic meeting. I'm always happy to hear from the community, but I kind of prefer action mode. To be fair, this meeting had been scheduled before we knew that this was the day that the Mueller report would be released.

Right. But remember that a lot of Democrats, members of Mikey's own party, their hopes are really riding on what's going to be in this report. So they are going to be glued to this press conference. They're planning their own press conferences. They're planning their television appearances. Mikey is doing this. So the meeting ends. And Mikey tells us that she has to go straight to another meeting in another town. But she invites us to ride along. And that's when we actually get a chance to talk.

So we're getting all these updates on the Mueller report, which is out. So this one says, details many links between the Trump team and Russia, but says the evidence isn't enough to bring charges. So what are you thinking about in this moment or on this day? You know, as I've been thinking through it, I just think it's critical that Congress be able to see the whole report, the unredacted report, just because I think it's a critical duty of Congress to understand in a detailed way how the Russians hacked into our election system and what we need to do to ensure that that never happens again. And what about the obstruction angle, which is probably what a lot more Democrats are going to be focused on, because that's where they think the president has a little more culpability. a little more culpability? You know, I'll have to see again what the report looks like, the unredacted version, because the report was hundreds of pages. The Barr version was, I believe, four. But what I'm most concerned about is how we protect our democracy, how we make sure that

we are running an election in 2020 that is free from any interference and beyond, really. Kate, what are you thinking about as you hear Mikey talk about this report? I'm thinking this is about the safest talking point imaginable. This is the point we're hearing Republicans make that Russia meddled in our election. And that is a big deal. But Mikey's avoiding the most politically charged part of this, the question of whether or not the president obstructed justice. Members of your party, there are people on the record saying they're pushing for, they want impeachment. They want the president impeached.

Where are you on that? Well, you know, again, I want to see the Mueller report. I would never as a federal prosecutor say to my FBI agents, here's the charges I want to bring. Now go find me the evidence. It's one thing to campaign on local issues like traffic. It's another thing to be in office at this moment of incredible political division and to try to almost pretend this issue doesn't exist. Why do you think she's being so cautious? You know, keep in mind for moderates, the minute they got elected in 2018, they're immediately fighting to be reelected in 2020. It's not like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez or Rashida Tlaib, who won in districts that Democrats are always going to win, whose voters want to hear them talking about impeachment or supporting the Green New Deal.

They're not going to get voted out of office for talking about those things. Mikey is in a totally different position in her swing district. Right. So if you think about it, if you are Mikey Sherrill, why in the world would you talk about anything other than these issues that you know that your constituents all agree on? Because the minute you take a side on any divisive issue, you risk losing these voters who you spent so much time to win over, and you risk losing your seat. So she's clearly working really hard to walk this line right down the middle. And I'm wondering what she thinks about all these other Democrats who are staking out very different positions, not just on impeachment,

but on a whole range of issues. But how do you feel when so much of the attention is on Ilhan Omar and what she said about Israel or, you know, AOC and what she's saying about the Green New Deal? Is that, does your district expect you to respond? Are you expected to respond to that in Washington? So when we're talking about things like in Washington? So when we're talking about things like the Green New Deal, we're talking about something that is very broad, but very exciting. And I really do think helped move the conversation of climate change to the front and

center, which I think a lot of people in my district think needs to happen. Now, is that something that we can get through Congress right now? I don't think so. Can we get some really good climate change legislation through Congress? And does the momentum from the Green New Deal help us? Yeah, I think so. I guess I have more reservations about divisive comments from our caucus that divide our country even more. I ran in part because there is a real sense in my district that we need more bipartisanship, that we need more people in this country fighting for the issues that everyone in this country agrees on, not looking for ways to divide us. Are you thinking about anything in particular?

I'm just, you know, it's very... Ilhan Omar? I mean... Yeah, it's using kind of every opportunity to incite people. It's sort of not apologizing when you say something about 9-11 and aren't clear about the harm that caused our country and what you meant by that. It's the anti-Semitic comments that we've heard from my side of the aisle and, let's face it, from across the aisle. And those are often unaddressed as well. We let these comments derail us in a way that's just, I don't think, productive. In your election campaign, the Republicans tried to use Nancy Pelosi against you to the extent that you had to do an ad saying, I'm not going to vote for Nancy Pelosi. You didn't vote for Nancy Pelosi.

do an ad saying, I'm not going to vote for Nancy Pelosi. You didn't vote for Nancy Pelosi. Do you think and do you worry that in your reelection, they're going to use Ilhan Omar against you or Rashid Tlaib against you or AOC against you? You know, I think we're already seeing the language from the Republican Party that shows that that's exactly where the Republican Party's headed. I think it's very hard to tell people that I'm a socialist when I've served my country, when, you know, I came up through the Cold War and I have a district that very much believes in capitalism. You know, we're very concerned about our markets. So I think equating me with some other members of my caucus

doesn't really resonate here. But I know that that will likely be the attack. All right. Can you let us out? Nope. So Kate, about a month after you and I visited Mikey and her district in New Jersey, producer Rachel Quester

and I went to see Mikey in Washington. I'm Mikey. Nice to see you. It's just before eight on a Wednesday morning, and we meet Mikey at her apartment. When she's in D.C., she lives in one of those modern high-rise buildings. Bye. I love you, Mom. I love you, too, honey. In an apartment she shares with her mom. I'll see you in a little bit. Her mom moved part-time to Washington to volunteer in her office. I'll be there shortly. So, Mikey, tell me, what are you doing right now?

So I live down the hall in an apartment building from Representative Abigail Spanberger from Virginia, and so I am going to get her, and we are going to head over to our office on the hill. Oh, you live on the same floor? We do. We did not realize that. But it's great. Her husband gave us a ride home last night. So I accidentally,

accidentally took your jacket when Adam moved his home. So I'm returning that. Perfect. Do I need it today? No, I don't think so. It's supposed to get up in the 70s. Good morning.

Hi, I'm Lisa. This is Rachel. Abigail Spanberger, like Mikey, is a moderate who flipped her district. I was actually just catching up on the daily this morning. Her seat had also been held by a Republican for decades. So we walk with them to work on Capitol Hill. Why do you think you guys get along so well? Well, I think we've both served in somewhat similar ways in national security.

So I was in the Navy, Abby was in the CIA. And then we have children roughly the same age. And I think you're the oldest of three girls and I'm the oldest of three girls. Really? Yeah. But we also have, I mean, we share the common experience of not necessarily ever planning to run for office, deciding to run for office because we we see problems that we want to fix. And so I think that we're we understand each other's motivations. We understand each other's frustrations. in. I'm just wondering, like, if you see yourselves as like contrast to this other like self-described progressive kind of squad of the Democratic Party, do you see that there's like a moderate

kind of squad that has formed? No, I don't think there's like a contrast. I think it's just people have different roles. And I think with our districts, our critical role to play is to form broad-based coalitions to get legislation passed in Congress. You know, we represent a lot of people who didn't vote for us. And that informs the way that you look at things. That informs how you understand those who disagree with you. Because I have a lot of constituents who disagree with me. And so, you know, that allows me to understand my colleagues who disagree with me.

Districts like ours, you know, my district didn't fundamentally change. I just got a lot of people who historically wouldn't have voted for a Democrat to vote for a Democrat. And in the large view of things, you know, there's a strong place for people to really, you know, advocate for big, grandiose ideas. But we also need people to take the step of saying these are specific policy initiatives that not only do I support, but that can have legs, that I've gone back and forth. I know what the criticisms are. We've worked through them. We've finessed the legislation. And we're really trying to bring a broad base of support to this particular piece of legislation. And I think that long term, when we see some of the volleying back and forth of when one party is in control, we do all these sorts of things, and then the next party is in control, and they try to undo

those things, like, that's not sustainable. And I think too many times, you know, a Democrat will put forth a perfect bill in our eyes. And that's the bill. And there's no compromise, and there's no discussion. And if you like, you know, if you wanted to put puppies instead of small dogs, you're out of luck, we're not doing it. And I think the Republicans do the same thing. And so we've gotten to this point where, you know, we have 97 percent of people in this country agreeing that we just need universal background checks for gun purchases. That in my district is really non-controversial. Just about everybody agrees on that. And we can't get that through Congress. So something's got to change.

and we can't get that through Congress. So something's got to change. How you doing, ma'am? I don't know if you all have to go through the security. So we arrive at Capitol Hill. Guys, you need to come this way. And both of them head off to meetings. Thanks, guys.

Okay, what time is it? It's a quarter after 8. You know where we're going? I think so. Rachel and I make our way to the press office to get our press badges. And then we head over to Mikey's office. And her mom is the first person we see. I will make sure she gets your message. Sitting at the front desk.

That's fine. Okay. Thank you for calling. Hello. Hi, how are you? Can you just describe what you're doing? Well, I'm Patty Sherrill. I'm Mikey's mom, and I volunteer here a couple days a week.

And one of my chief jobs is to answer the phone. And most of the calls, believe it or not, are from constituents. And a lot of them have a very strong opinion about a certain topic. What kind of calls come in? They call about, well, the wall. Like the wall that President Trump wants to build? Yes, that particular wall. But the people that call about that are mainly the people who want the wall.

And we get a lot of calls about wanting to impeach Trump. They're about evenly divided between Democrats and Republicans. So you are getting very acquainted with her district. Yes, I am. Mikey's district is one of the wealthiest districts in the country. It's made up of rich New York City suburbs that lean blue,

surrounded by farmland, which leans red. And these calls coming into Mikey's office perfectly sum up the competing views that Mikey is trying to balance. Do people know that they're talking to Mikey's mom? No. No. If they say something mean, they'll find out.

Mikey's dad, Dave Sherrill, is also there. He's visiting for the day. And tell me, I mean, her decision to go to the Naval Academy, can you kind of walk me through? It's real simple. Mikey said in the fifth grade, she said, I'm going to the Naval Academy. Something put a bee in the bonnet. Yeah, something made her decide. said in the fifth grade, she said, I'm going to the Naval Academy. Something put a bee in the bonnet. Yeah, something made her decide that. And I think from the beginning, she wanted to be a pilot.

Yeah. And do you remember what your reaction was, like what your feeling was about it when she first said it? I think at that age, you're just like, oh, that's nice. You know, because like in fifth grade, I wanted to be a nun. And by the time I was ready to go on to college, I thought, there is no way that that's going to happen. So I didn't think much of it, to tell you the truth. So when it started sinking in that this is what she wanted to do, what were your feelings? I was kind of apprehensive about it. I was kind of apprehensive about it because especially for a young woman, it's not a normal lifestyle in so many ways. Like, for example, she was on the Teddy Roosevelt, which is a big aircraft carrier with 5,000 people. And what she did not tell us at the time is she was the only female on the ship. She was the single woman among 5,000 men. Yeah. So then skipping ahead,

can you tell me about when Mikey first told you that she wanted to run for Congress? I don't remember. Oh, I remember. Because I tend to worry too much about every little thing and worry and have a kind of a negative view of what's going to happen, you know, like the sky is falling. So when she said it, I thought, be positive, be positive, be positive. And I said, oh, wow, you know, I wanted to know whose district it was. And she said, Frelinghuysen, and he'd been doing it for 24 years. And he was a Republican, and it was a Republican district. And I said, well, that's great, but do you think you can win? I'm thinking to myself, you don't stand a snowball's chance in hell of winning. But

I didn't say that. That to me is being positive by not saying that. So she said, that's not what matters. Somebody's got to run. And I think I should be that person. So had you been skeptical up to that point as well? I mean, what were you thinking? Yeah, I just thought it was a long shot because, I mean, here's a guy that's been there for 24 years. And most of these people, you know, they can stay for life. And this guy was well-funded. And when did the scale tip? Like, what was the moment where you thought, oh, actually, this could really happen? I think it was when Frelinghausen decided to retire. So it was changing right at that point, I thought.

And that's when I felt like, you know, unless the opposition puts somebody unbelievable against her, she's got a great chance. And she really blew it out. And I just, I still don't believe it. You know, I still occasionally wake up and think, God, is she really in Congress? You know, how long is this going to last? Is she going to get booted out? Well, she could. You never know. Thank you so much. Thank you. Mikey's been in and out of the office most of the day, but we finally catch her when she's greeting some of her constituents.

Yeah, we're going to see the Aaron Space Museum after this. About two dozen sixth graders are all standing in the hallway huddled around Mikey. So here, I think the students have a question or two for you, and then I'm going to take the ones who haven't seen your office to a quick tour. What is, like, one law in a state that you would change? Well, so I work on laws that affect the state, but the laws that I work on are federal. So they're not state laws, but federal laws. But they impact our state, and this is going to be a little boring, guys,

but the one I would change right now is the state and local tax deduction cap. And I'm working on that, but I'm sorry that's super boring. I know you like, yeah, your teachers are really happy though. Do you think we should impeach Trump or keep him? So as you guys might know, Congress has constitutional duties. A lot of the work that we do is specified in the Constitution, and we have oversight duties. So I think we're finding a good balance right now, performing our oversight duties, trying to ensure that people follow the law in the country. In all of the moments that we catch her,

even in a place where she can be more relaxed, in front of a bunch of kids, she's still careful, measured, and moderate. And then I also, something that kind of gets lost a little bit in this conversation too when we talk about the Mueller report is I'm really worried about how Russians hacked into our election system and trying to protect

the 2020 election as well. So guess what the Congresswoman has to go do now? What are you going to do in Congress? All right. I'm going to vote and I'm just going to tell you guys something exciting. I'm going to go meet with the rest in the New Jersey delegation really quickly before I vote because we have one of the largest delegations in the Democratic caucus, which gives us a great deal of reach throughout the caucus and gives your delegation in New Jersey a great deal of power. So that's pretty exciting. I'm going to go meet with them and then I'm going to go vote.

So have a great day. Enjoy the Aaron Space Museum. Thank you, guys. After the break, Kate sits down for our last interview with Mikey. Okay, ready everyone? Okay. That's me. Mikey, Cheryl. Oh, hey Mikey, everyone? Okay. That's new. Mikey Sherrill. Oh, hey, Mikey. It's Kate. Hi, Kate. How are you? I'm good. How are you?

I am good. Good. I don't have a phone. Okay. I think we better get started then. Oh, yeah, because it's almost 10 past. Okay. Okay, so I think a lot of Americans, a lot of listeners look to define their politicians. Is this person a populist, a conservative, a moderate even? So can you tell us how you would define yourself? Sure. I don't feel like the traditional political labels clearly define me or really a lot of people. You know, I think just, I just have a deep, deep belief

in this country and our democracy and the values that we have traditionally promoted across the world. Right. But don't some Americans want their politicians to take stronger positions? In particular,

I'm thinking of progressive voters who might be listening to this and hear that as playing it safe, as deliberately avoiding taking any kind of strong position that might label you in a way that would turn off some voters. So what do you say to that? You know, I think I have a very strong position. I think too many people think that focusing on jobs and the economy and the middle class might be playing it safe. But when real people's lives are being impacted, when people are looking at a really insecure future, I don't think that is

something to be taken lightly. Who are you protecting and what are you protecting and what are you doing if you're not focused on people across this country having a secure future? It sounds like what you're saying is this is not actually a strategy. It's just who you are and what you believe. But you and many other Democrats did flip districts with this approach, with this strategy, really. You won over people who'd never voted for Democrats before, who'd voted for Trump just two years earlier.

So do you also think this is an important strategy for winning back American voters? Well, I guess if the strategy is to try to understand the needs of your district and to hear from as many people as possible and really drill down on the issues that are going to make people's lives better, yeah, I think that's a great strategy. You know, what we saw when we were running, a lot of us, was remarkably similar. So I don't think it's a strategy that we all ran on health care. We all ran on getting prescription drug costs down. I think that is because that's a real crisis in this country right now, and it's a crisis across this country. It was just kind of

the reality on the ground. And I think what our party had maybe gotten away from in the past, I think there was a lot of telling people in this country what they needed. And I think maybe there wasn't enough listening to what people in this country needed. And in order to flip these seats, I think we had to be so involved in our communities and listening so carefully to our communities so that we knew what people needed and what people were feeling and why they were feeling that way. And then we needed to focus on what the legislation was going to be to kind of make a difference in our districts. I'm pushing on this because in some ways, I think this is going to be the conversation Democrats are going to have going into 2020. Is the party going to

try to appeal to the center, to try to win back people who voted for Trump? Or are they going to recognize that some Americans think the system is just fundamentally broken and that something bigger and more radical is needed? I guess because I've sort of devoted my life to this country, I don't buy that the country is fundamentally broken, that we can't move forward, that we can't fix it, that we can't, you know, create a great future. I think there is a lack of faith across America in our country and our ability to move forward. And I said this during my campaign, you know, you look at Kennedy deciding to go to the moon

and the amount that that was going to cost the economy and the amount of will that he needed to generate to do something as grand as that. And I often think now, gosh, if we wanted to do something on that scale, I think too many people think, huh, no, I don't think we're up for that. When you think of some of the programs like the Eisenhower Highway Program, or you think of the War on Poverty, all of these programs just seem to be something that Americans right now don't have enough faith in their government to accomplish. And we have got to, as people in government, work to rebuild that. Because otherwise, you know, we're just not going to be on the best path forward. What we need to do is attack the

problem and fix it. And some people, I think, would say it's so fundamentally flawed, you have to kind of blow up the system. I would not be one of those people. So the radical idea you have is to regain the trust of American voters. Yeah, I guess it doesn't sound entirely radical when you say it that way, Kate, but I will say yes. You know, we need to develop faith in our government. You know, I think we've been fighting this idea since President Reagan, you know, the idea that government's not the solution, it's the problem. We have to have a government that works and that's efficient and that has the trust of the American people so that when people in government say, I think we can do something great, the American people are behind that idea.

So we just had the first Democratic presidential debates, and we heard a lot of these candidates staking out very progressive positions, particularly on Medicare for all, decriminalizing illegal border crossings. Does that, this sort of move to the left in those debates, make you nervous for the party? Yes. I think it's, you know, if we're moving too far away from focusing on what we can do to move our economy forward, what we can do to create jobs, what we can do to create more security for the American people, that makes me nervous. You know, the sense that the caucus is moving away from these kind of ideas, that does concern me very much. But I have to run. We have the next thing. We're kind of on the move.

All right. But I really appreciate it. Okay. Mikey, thank you. Thank you. Bye-bye. You know, when we first started talking to Mikey, the focus was all on the Mueller report. And a lot of Democrats really didn't know how to proceed.

Would the party break in the direction of the squad? Or would it break more towards the more cautious members like Mikey? Now, we've seen the president take direct aim at the squad to paint all Democrats as socialists in exactly the way that Mikey predicted they would. Nancy Pelosi, who's in charge of the Democrats in the House, is articulating more of a distance from super progressives. She defends them when Trump attacks them, but she's also indicated pretty clearly that she wants voters to see that it's the Democrats like Mikey who are the true Democratic Party. She knows that she needs more than just those four seats of the squad to keep control of the House. She needs to keep the seats like Mikey's. So whatever you call them, moderates, pragmatists, the vulnerability of these Democrats from these purple places, their need to hang on, is also their power. Thank you so much, Kate.

Thank you, Lisa. We'll be right back. that the federal prison where Jeffrey Epstein hanged himself appeared to violate its own procedures by failing to check on him every 30 minutes and by leaving him alone without a cellmate. Epstein was found dead on Saturday morning in Manhattan, where he was being held on charges of sex trafficking of minors in a case involving dozens of women. His death immediately triggered three investigations

by the Justice Department, the FBI, and the New York City Medical Examiner into how he was able to kill himself just two weeks after being taken off suicide watch for a previous attempt to take his own life. His suicide could end the criminal case against Epstein by depriving federal prosecutors of a defendant. But those prosecutors said they would continue to investigate Epstein and the associates

around him, who they say enabled his conduct. That's it for The Daily. I'm Michael Bavaro. See you tomorrow.