The Daily - The Interpreters the U.S. Left Behind in Afghanistan

Episode Date: August 19, 2021

This episode contains strong language.Weeks ago, as the Taliban undertook a major military offensive in Afghanistan, the U.S. accelerated its evacuation of Afghans who aided them and feared retribution. Many, however, remain in the country. “I hope we do right by these people, but I hope we do it quickly,” Andrew Vernon, said a former Marine who has sought help for an interpreter he worked with. “But I am fully prepared to be fully disappointed as well.”Sign up here to get The Daily in your inbox each morning. And for an exclusive look at how the biggest stories on our show come together, subscribe to our newsletter. Background reading: Through WhatsApp and Facebook messages, Afghans who served as interpreters are asking former colleagues in America to get them out as the Taliban close in.Many of those who worked alongside U.S. troops have waited years for visas to come to the United States. The speedy withdrawal of forces left most of them behind.For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday. 

From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily. The clock is ticking loudly for the Afghan translators who fought alongside U.S. forces. Weeks ago, as the American military began wrapping up its withdrawal from Afghanistan, and the Taliban undertook a major military offensive. The White House has been under growing pressure to rescue Afghans who helped the U.S. government. Our message to those women and men is clear. There is a home for you in the United States, if you so choose, and we will stand with you just as you stood with us. The U.S. accelerated its evacuation of Afghans who have helped the American military,

It's evacuation of Afghans who have helped the American military and, as a result, fear retribution from the Taliban. Meanwhile, the first wave of evacuated Afghan interpreters reached Virginia today. 221 landed in Virginia early on Friday. But tens of thousands more of those Afghans and their families remain stuck in Afghanistan. And if you do the math, it's very difficult to get all of those people out of... Many of them had applied for special immigrant visas that would allow them to resettle in the United States. But the special immigrant visa program has been mired in bureaucratic delay.

But after months, and in some cases, years of waiting, they say that their applications have either stalled or been rejected, at times without explanation. If I get captured in front of my family, what's going to happen to my daughter? Now, with the Taliban firmly in control of Afghanistan, they say that they're trapped and terrified. I have a family, my wife and two sons. Please help me, please, please. I do not know what to say. Today, my colleague Lindsay Garrison spoke with several Afghan interpreters who are desperate to leave the country, and to their counterparts in the American military, who

are determined to get them out. It's Thursday, August 19th. You want me to start? Yeah, yeah, go for it. My name is Zach. I am 31 years old. I am a former interpreter with Marine Forces. And what were your first impressions like?

Like, do you remember your first day on the job? Yeah, it was horrible. It was horrible. It was horrible. It was in the field, battlefield. And just, it was danger. Yeah. Yeah. It was hard.

Did you think that, like, what did you think Afghanistan's future might be at that point? Like, did you think that the American military might actually get rid of the Taliban? Yeah, we think we will get rid of the Taliban, but it gets more worse here. It gets worse day to day. Are you, Zach, are you getting threats from the Taliban right now? Yeah. They said whenever we find you, we'll kill you and your family. Yep.

Because you're infidel. You worked for the Americans. Yep. Because you're infidel. You worked for the Americans. Because you're infidel, you worked for the Americans. Yeah. Yep. I mean, I guess I just want to ask, like, when you heard that, like, what went through your head, what were you thinking? The hopeless, you know. You know, Zach?

Oh, no. Hello? Hi, is this Major Schumann? It is. Can you just tell me a little bit how you first met, Zach? Sure. I was a platoon commander in Kiel Company, 3rd Battalion, 5th Marines, deployed to Helmand Province, Sangin District, Afghanistan, in September 2010 through April 2011.

And Zach and I started to work together very early in that deployment. He was young, I mean the same age as most of my Marines, 18, 19. And so immediately I kind of adopted him into the platoon and protected him. And so, yeah, I think we hit it off very quickly and he was an immediate value and asset to the platoon. I mean, on a daily basis, we were going out on patrols. For the first three months, it was a very conventional kind of fight where we were in contact with the enemy, lots of firefights, ambushes. And so, you know, the interpreter was always—I always had two people near me, the interpreter and my radio operator.

And so anytime we would question the locals or question detainees, Zach was there to assist me in. And Zach, he definitely has a warrior spirit in him. And, you know, that was exhibited on multiple occasions, whether it was we were trapped in a minefield and Zach was monitoring the Taliban's communications. We had radios that could tap into their network and he was listening to them talk and he knew that they were going to initiate IED, improvised explosive device. And he ran through the minefield and tackled this guy and said, this is the guy who's on the radio talking about your patrol saying they're going to initiate the attack. At one point I had two Marines blown up. One was a triple amputee and we were still under fire. And so Zach picked up the rifle of the injured Marine and, you know, returned fire.

And so I mean, surprised to see that. Yeah, I mean, not surprised, necessarily, because Zach, he was basically one of my Marines became one of our brothers. And I'm not surprised that he was invested in our safety and protecting one another. Now, surprised in so much as no other interpreter demonstrated, you know, such determination, zeal or courage. Most interpreters, when, you know, the bullets start flying, kind of get down, find the spot to hide out until the firefight's over, which, I mean, that's fine. I mean, we're not expecting them to fight alongside us. But Zach, I think, felt like he was really a member of the platoon. Did he ever, like, talk about, like, leaving Afghanistan? Like, even in those earlier years? Like, did he ever talk about that with you? Yeah, I think there's a lot of hope that we

would all reunite on American soil. There were a lot of promises by the Department of State and the DOD that would happen. And Zach knew pretty immediately that his service with the Marines would put a target on his back for the rest of his life. And that, I mean, the threats to Zach were already starting while he was still serving with us in 2010. And then, yeah, I mean, he's been persecuted and hunted, you know, really routinely, monthly, yearly for over a decade now since he served with us. And so, yeah, I think the hope was always that he would get to the U.S. And I think we did not anticipate five years of rejection. You know, we submitted his application in 2016,

and it's never progressed past the first phase. And I don't think that we ever imagined that. Basically, these promises that we understood were made, we thought it would be honored, and, it's not been at all. I concluded that it's time to end America's longest war. It's time for American troops to come home. But after the president made the announcement... The United States will begin our final withdrawal.

I reengaged with Zach and said, you know, what are the consequences of us leaving? And he said, the consequences are me and my family will be killed. We'll not conduct a hasty rush to the exit. We'll do it responsibly, deliberately, and safely. So with renewed zeal, I have been full court pressed on this issue. I have been full court press on this issue. So I've got, you know, a decent social media presence on Instagram. And so I kind of posted some stuff on there and generated hundreds and hundreds,

I would say probably thousands at this point of phone calls. Many, many, many hours devoted to trying to find him legal representation. I did several interviews with smaller publications and then Senator Durbin brought up Zach's case specifically by name. The fact that an interpreter who risked his life to... We were on the cover of the New York Times, again, a little momentum, and then we were on a military podcast, Zero Block 30.

As an active-duty Marine who wants to keep his former interpreter alive. I just saw Rachel Maddow a couple nights ago. With that, Zach is still not safe, and Zach is still potentially not going to be evacuated. I've talked to probably 20 people at state, probably 40, 50 congressmen. Mr. President, please help us and rescue our lives. Everybody's like interested, but nothing ever actually changes. Thank you both gentlemen for your time. Zach, we'll keep working for your cause. for your cause.

You know, even when you kind of have all this attention, it really is disappointing and frustrating that you could have the Secretary of State saying he's going to take action, and you could have Senator Durbin and Senator Duckworth now both saying that they're on the case. I don't know, you know, you're on the cover of the New York Times. You think, and then Zach gets a letter last week, the identical letter that he received in 2015. And yeah, and so it's just a wall that seems to be insurmountable. And, you know, Zach has made more sacrifices and accepted more danger,

saved American lives than, you know, 99% of the population here. And the fact that we can't find him a seat on the airplane in the stamp of Ziza is discouraging to say the least. Yeah, it's been tough. Hello, ma'am. Hi, Zach. Good night. How are you? Good morning. How are you? Good, good. Good, good.

Bad internet connection. This is Afghanistan, you know. Yeah, sometimes you need something, it doesn't work. If you don't need it, it works. If you need it, it doesn't work. Yeah. I think this is working. Can you hear me okay, Zach?

Yeah, yeah, it's good. I can hear you correctly. You can. Oh, I hear a baby in the background. Yeah, the baby is, this is morning here, they just wake up and want some food. The mom is working to make them some food, and they are crying. Hey, bring me the food. Is it your baby?

Yeah, my baby. I have four kids. My older son is about five years old. And the first daughter, she's three years old. Third one is two years old. And the little baby

one is about nine or ten months. Are you all packed, just in case? Yeah, we have our baggies, pull up our clothes, baby clothes and my wife's clothes, and all stuff, whatever we need. Everything is packed up, just ready to roll out.

You know, we hope to get out soon. We'll be right back. hi man hi how are you i'm doing fine thank you how are you uh just to make sure should I call you by an initial? You can call me H. H. Okay, perfect. Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you. You're welcome. I would just love to know a little bit about how you came to work for the Marines.

I was 22, I think. And I did not have any military background at that time. I was very naive and I was less educated too. Some of my friends told me to join the U.S. military forces because it's like fighting freedom, like fighting the bad guys, taking out the bad guys out of our country. So I got there and took exam and I fortunately passed and joined the Marine Forces. What was it like? At first, it was quite interesting. I really loved my job because somehow I was helping my country

enduring freedom as well as I was experiencing other cultures as I was being with Marines and I was experiencing a different lifestyle there. I styled there. And somehow I was convincing myself that I'm using my tongue to help my people. And I was like a moderator. I was moderating between the U.S. Marines and the local national. I see. So how long in total did you work with the military? I think it was about 11 months.

11 months, okay. I was terminated from my job. And till the date, I don't understand what was the reason behind that. I did not fight with someone and I did not refuse my missions. fight with someone and I did not refuse my missions. For someone who was having kids back home and spending six months on the duty and going to missions and hitting by IEDs, it was very hard experience. But I can now somehow understand that it might be the naiveness and also the lack of military trainings and backgrounds. Did you think at that time that one day you'd like to live in the United States? Like, did you hear about the SIV program and think that might be a good option for you? Yes. After my job in 2013 and 14,

there was rumors that the U.S. is pulling out. So somebody encouraged me to fill out the forms for the SIV. Okay. So I did that. Okay. And you submitted the application? Yes. What happened once you submitted the application? Yes. What happened once you submitted the application?

It got denied multiple times for the same reason that I did not have work with the U.S. forces for at least two years. least two years. As I see the video clips and the announcements and the conversation of the people on the internet, they crystal clear about killing people who were helping the coalition forces. I, I, I, I, even, even now I feel I'm out of time. Even now I, I have the fear of getting hurt even tomorrow. Yeah. And what about your family?

Yes, that's the main question. I would rather, I won't care about myself as much as I worry about them and their future. I want my kids to be having a positive mindset and not fearing anything and just going to their schools and getting good education.

I just don't want to ask, do you regret working regret the work I did. And the more cruel actions that these guys are having, the more they make me proud of the work I did. They are everyday beheading people. They are killing people without any justice. They don't care of any women, men, children, young boys, nobody. Nobody is safe in their territory. So that's why I will never regret the work I did enduring freedom of my country and as well as the world. So I'm Andrew Vernon. I'm 35 years old. I live in Dallas, Texas. I guess we're talking because I was in the Marine Corps after college from about 2009 through 2013. Well, when did you first meet H?

So H was assigned to our company. There was H and two other interpreters, but H supported our third platoon mostly. Got it. Do you remember any kind of details about like his personality or kind of what he was like? Anything like that? He was friendly. He was a friendly guy. He was a little bit outspoken and didn't always read the room super well.

Okay. And if he hears this or reads this, sorry, H, I still like you, obviously, trying to help you out here. So he would make some statements that were, you know, he said on one occasion something about Afghanistan being a great and beautiful place before the U.S. came there.

I'm like, okay, well, man, what do you want from me? He would voice some opinions like that, but I don't think they're very closely or deeply held. I think he was just speaking out of frustration with the general situation. He said he was terminated after 11 months. I guess I'm curious if you think it matters. I guess I'm curious if you think it matters. I don't know what it was terminated for. I mean, was he, you know, the all-star interpreter? No.

But the guy did his job and took a lot of risk. And now him and his family are at risk as a result. So I think we need to keep faith with him and the other interpreters. And the whole bureaucratic process is such a mess anyway. Like, I'd written a letter of recommendation for him at the end of 2014, I guess it was. And it wasn't until the beginning of 2018 that I got an email from the State Department asking me to verify, one, my identity, and two, verify the letter that I wrote. So I don't know why that takes three years. How is this feeling to you personally? You know, about the interpreters specifically, kind of disgusted.

People just need to give a shit, right? It's easy to say, oh, well, it's not our problem or whatever, blah, blah, blah. But these are still real people, right, with real lives and real families. And their lives are in peril because they worked with us. And so there is some sort of moral imperative there, right? I think Americans are generally lazy and out of touch and indifferent, and it's kind of inexcusable in my mind. I'm sure some people sleep fine at night with the current situation,

but people end up getting hurt that helped us. I think that's inexcusable and shameful. end up getting hurt that helped us, I think that's inexcusable and shameful. You know, I hope we do right by these people. That's, you know, I hope we do it quickly. But I'm fully prepared to be fully disappointed as well. Hi, H. Good afternoon. I just wanted to see how you're doing now that the Taliban has overtaken your town. I'm just curious if you can give me an update by voice memo.

That would be great. I hope you're safe. Hello, ma'am. Thank you so much for asking. I don't know how I'm doing now. As I'm deeply saddened and I have no idea to describe the feelings that I have now. All I was doing today was just cry and pray for a better future and to be honest I'm not feeling well. The situation here is very quiet now and you can hear the horns of the military cars taken by the Taliban.

And there are rumors on social media that they are going to settle down first and they will start to do their brutalities. Meanwhile they shot about six people in our city. Hello, ma'am. Good morning to you. Yes, one of the big incidents that happened here was that members of Taliban came to our neighborhood and they were asking for the ID cards of some of the former Afghan military forces. And they were knocking on the doors, and they were asking for the ID cards. And they knocked on a door right beside our house. And I don't know who they were looking for, but this happened today here in our town.

Yeah, please, if you keep my identity, it will be great. Of course. Actually, if you call me like, if you call me like Abdul, because Abdul is common. Okay, Abdul. Yes. Okay. Yes, actually, we are in a very nervous situation right now. Not only me, my wife, children, and also my father, mom.

Because I did service for U.S. government, their life is at risk about my job. I see. Okay. My province captured by Taliban. After one day, we hear that they killed two people in the city. Still every night they're searching for people. They're spying to find the people who work for the coalition forces, who work for the Afghan government, who work for any other organization. Slowly they target him. They assassinate him. Okay. The Taliban, when they captured the city, they called, they announced people who worked for the army. They said, I know we will be forgiving.

But the next day, Taliban comes to people. People work for government. That's meaning Taliban is not honest to their words. I'm sorry, the phone is just a little choppy, but I think I understand what you're saying. You're saying that the Taliban came to your city and they said, you know, for all of those who worked for the U.S. military, you can step forward. We're going to forgive you. And then a couple of people did step forward and they killed those people. Is that what happened?

Yes, absolutely. You think you're going to be assassinated? Yes, absolutely. I will be assassinated or I will be killed with my family. If we get a visa, for sure, we're going to try to go by the next three days because we don't want to miss a chance. If we miss the next three days, you know, we're gone forever. We're going to die, absolutely. Yeah.

I have not heard from him for about six hours now, so I'm starting to get a little concerned, but it is nighttime over there. And yeah, so... My name is Colin Daniels. I'm 28 years old. I served six years in the Army as a captain, deployed to Afghanistan three times with the 82nd Airborne and the 75th Ranger Regiment.

Some of our interpreters have been able to get out of Afghanistan over the years. It was flagged to me recently that one of the interpreters that my team worked with on my first deployment applied for his visa in April 2020 and has not gotten it yet. What kind of work did he do with you guys and like for which deployment of yours? So it was my first deployment. Our mission that deployment was to protect a certain airfield. And so he would be along for the ride. And one story that has been told to me over and over again about the time that one of our vehicles, a patrol that he was on, he was in the vehicle, it struck an IED. Everybody ended up being fine, but just to show this man's like testament to his character, when the patrol went out the next day, years. And our interpreters, they were still

committed. No matter how long it had been, they were still committed to working with us and trying to make the country a better place. He cares about his kids. He cares about his wife. He wants them to have the rights that we have here. And he wanted to be safe. That's why he was an interpreter. Did he talk about, or did you ever hear him say anything about his hopes for Afghanistan? Like, did he ever talk about the future or?

Yeah. I mean, it's the same thing all of our Terps would talk about. We just want, we just want about. We just want peace. We just want to be able to survive. And we would tell the Afghans, whether they were interpreters or civilians or Afghan army, that they could trust us as Americans. that they could trust us as Americans. You know, I joined the military because I like truly believed that America was the...

I believed in America. And they did too. And like we told them on an individual level to trust us trust us on this patrol trust us on this k-lead trust us on on all this we have your back because they just were aspiring to be free. What's more American than that? And, you know,

when push comes to shove, like I don't disagree with having to leave Afghanistan, like we can't do it forever. But when push comes to shove these people that soldiers and sailors and airmen, Marines told, Hey man, you can trust me.

It's a lie now, you know, excuse me. Do you feel like you've somehow broken a promise to yourself because of this? feel like you've somehow broken a promise yourself because of this yes like like our nation made a promise but in in that promise in order for you know the war to even operate the the soldier has to make that promise too you know yeah and when you believe it, you truly believe it at the time because you think you're going to see it through to the end. But when it all comes down to it, you know, they made liars out of us. Yeah. There must be so many people in the military who are just feeling just like you.

Yeah. Yep. It's just about everybody who went to Afghanistan feels that. Everyone's talking now that I know from the Army who was involved. We're all saying that something's got to be done. We got to get these people out. Like, we have to. Like, Abdul will be killed,

and his family may be killed too, if we don't. It's an imminent threat. Also, I think this is important to note, like Abdul is one person, right? Yeah. He meets the criteria to get an SIV visa because he was an interpreter for more than two years. And that's the standard. You have to have two years of service in order to be considered for evacuation.

I deployed to Afghanistan three times and I was in Afghanistan for a total of 16 months. So I would not even qualify for to be evacuated if I was an interpreter. So just to think about that, like at what point is service to the United States enough in combat? Does it have to be two years? Does it have to be 18 months? Does it have to be two years? Does it have to be 18 months? Does it have to be 36 months? Like, where do we draw the line on how valuable this person was to us?

He was one of us. I owe it to him. It's my honor that I work with the U.S. government, everything. But for people like me, I don't think they're going to give a visa for us. I don't know what is my mistake that taking longer my SIV process. Right now I'm confused. I don't know what to do. Do you think, Abdul, I can keep in touch with you over the next couple of days? Absolutely, absolutely, no problem. If I'm alive, for sure, absolutely, I will talk to you.

Because right now we can't guarantee our life, you know, see the cars, everything is stuck. Taliban just entered Kabul. Now the people, all the people trying to get out of the place and left. Today, after two failed attempts, we made a third attempt at the airport with Zach and his family. There was a lot of confusion, a lot of chaos. Thankful that we had a point of contact on the gate. They pulled Zach in They got the kids some chocolate and water they manifested Zach for flight We just done our process and waiting for a flight In the terminal. We are sad now and let all guys know

Zach is sad and waiting for his flight. I won't know, I don't know when I'll know where Zach is. I do know that his SIV, his visa application is still not approved, not moved, no progress on that front. We had to work a solution outside of that system to save Zach's life and his family's. They said if the Taliban come here, where we should go. I told them, you want to go to America they say yeah you gotta go to America Noor you're not allowed to talk. Why? You're not allowed to talk. You're, she cannot talk. අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි We'll be right back.

We'll be right back. Here's what else you need to know today. For the first time on Wednesday, the Taliban encountered street protests against their takeover of Afghanistan in at least two cities in a major test of their tolerance for dissent. In the city of Jalalabad, the Taliban resorted to violence against the protesters, firing into crowds and beating demonstrators.

At least two people were killed and dozens were injured. And our approach on booster shots is simple and it's consistent with our approach on every other front of this war. Be guided by the science and always, always stay one step ahead of the virus. and always, always stay one step ahead of the virus. During a news conference on Wednesday, U.S. health officials laid out a plan to offer booster shots to Americans who have received either the Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna vaccines. The booster shots are needed, the officials said, because new data shows that the effectiveness of those vaccines declines over time.

We are concerned that this pattern of decline we are seeing will continue in the months ahead, which could lead to reduced protection against severe disease, hospitalization, and death. The boosters will be offered eight months after the second dose of the vaccine. The boosters will be offered eight months after the second dose of the vaccine. Americans who received the Johnson & Johnson vaccine may also need boosters, but the officials said they need more time before making that decision. Today's episode was produced by Lindsay Garrison, Annie Brown, Stella Tan, and Luke Vanderplug, with help from Nina Potok and Rob Zipko. It was edited by M.J. Davis-Lynn and Larissa Anderson

and engineered by Chris Wood. Original music by Dan Powell. Special thanks to Alyssa Rubin, Fatima Faizi, John Ismay, Thomas Gibbons-Neff, David Zucchino, Laura Jakes, Eric Schmidt, Jennifer Steinhauer, and Rojean Jacket. That's it for The Daily. I'm Michael Barbaro. See you tomorrow.