The Daily - 'The Interview': Ramy Youssef Is Just Trying to Be ‘Emotionally Correct’

Episode Date: April 12, 2025

The creator and comedian discusses his penchant for self-reflection, how politics fits into his work and why he’s not interested in representing anyone but himself.Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

From the New York Times, this is the interview. I'm Lulu Garcia Navarro. In the trailer for the new animated series Number One Happy Family USA, there's a tagline that reads, from the childhood nightmares of Rami Youssef. Now, it might sound like a warning, but the show itself is really very funny. It follows the fictional Hussein family as they try to fit into a changing America in the aftermath of 9-11. And it's punctuated with original songs, irreverent humor, and more than a nod to shows like South Park.

Yusuf was himself 10 years old when the terrorist attacks happened, growing up in an Egyptian-American family in New Jersey. He often refers to the dislocation and fear he experienced at that time in a stand-up comedy and a self-titled hulu show, Rami. This new series, though, is his biggest attempt yet to examine a period that Yusuf says we're all still grappling with in the Trump era. But when I caught up with him, we began our conversation talking about his move into film. After a role in Yorgos Lanthimos' Poor Things, he's been cast in a buzzy new HBO movie about

billionaires during a financial crisis. Here's my conversation with actor, creator, and comedian Rami Youssef. Hey. Hey. Hey. How are you? I'm really excited to sit down with you. Thank you for having me.

You are in Utah right now, right? Yes. And you're filming a movie, and it's directed by Jesse Armstrong, the Jesse Armstrong, who created Succession, one of my favorite shows. Correct me if I'm wrong, it's about a group of billionaire friends who get together during the financial crisis. It's not exactly the financial crisis,

but it's a financial crisis. And getting to work with Jesse Armstrong, who I've been a fan of forever. I mean, I think when I was in high school, we were illegally downloading Peep Show, you know? And then now, you know, obviously I've been such a huge fan of Succession and to get to be, you know, in this really small cast of his first film

that he's directing, it's really special, super surreal. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, one of the things that I absolutely love about his work is just how sharp the dialogue always is and the characters are drawn so beautifully and with so much nuance. Yeah, there's just so much depth. I mean, I think that there's, you know, he's someone who is brilliant at that mix of wit and being topical, talking about things that could feel like really dense news headlines and somehow making them about character dynamics, making them about friendships,

making them about families. And it's the kind of work I'm very attracted to. And then it's been an even richer experience, obviously getting to help bring one of his scripts to life. So you yourself have a new project. Yeah. It's called Number One Happy Family USA, which is a great name. Thank you. It's an animated show.

Yeah. And it centers around a Muslim American family during 9-11, and it's really very, very funny. And I found it almost hopeful somehow that something like this can now be made, a comedy about one of the most terrible days in American history from the perspective of a Muslim American family.

Why did you want to make this show now? You know, I think that the thing that compelled me is, you know, the family in this show, they already have a lot going on before that happens. Pretty much the entire pilot, it's just this family comedy about a family you've never really seen in an animated space. And for me though to kind of bring in the events of the early 2000s felt important in the sense that you know it's something we

talk about all the time. It's part of what we're currently experiencing. It's never gone away and it's also never really been explored in media outside of a few, you know, points of view. And so when I think about how long these themes have been directly a part of my life and the lives of people that I know, to get to, you know, step into a period of time that I don't think has escaped us in any way, unfortunately, and to get to do it in a style that is somewhat, you know, familiar in terms of trotting on political things that can feel a little difficult and undercuts them, right, and doesn't make them feel so volatile, to get to give this kind of family that treatment is really exciting.

And to go into this and at this through a totally unexpected and very silly lens, and maybe that's where that hope feeling comes from because it's so unfiltered and it's so wild and it's one of the craziest things I've gotten to be a part of and one of the most inappropriate things I've gotten to be a part of and one of the most inappropriate things I've gotten to be a part of. Yet there's a lot of love and care I think for, you know, the subjects involved, right? Because it's meant to be something that finds the heart in the midst of kind of all the stuff. I tell you what resonated for me as someone who also comes from an immigrant family, came to this country, you know, it speaks to something wider than the Muslim American experience

because the dad in the show is sort of desperately trying to prove his loyalty to America. And it keeps literally in some cases blowing up in his face. And it's the theme I see in a lot of your work, the idea that a big part of the immigrant experience is trying to figure out what it means to be American. And I feel like every generation grapples with that differently. And I'm wondering if you saw that in your own family.

You know, I think that, you know, I'm really lucky that I grew up with, you know with strong parents who did have a sense of self, and it was almost because they did have a sense of self, I was able to see this piece of it that felt kind of scared and desperate, right? And I don't think that was the defining experience. It's almost because it wasn't, I'm able to kind of look at it from the side and go oh wow it's really interesting how pervasive that is in my community i see it come up in my family i see it come up mainly in myself and i'm usually interested in making self reflective work you know i because it's the only thing i can speak for you know making work about other people are joking about other people's never really been funny to me because it's the only thing I can speak for, you know, making work about other people or joking about other people has never really been funny to me because it's like, I don't even know who you are really.

Like I know who you present and I know who I present and I know the gap, those gaps. And I think this show, you know, one of my favorite things about wanting to do an animated thing is, you know, I initially had this idea that it would be amazing to see an animated family that looked different when they were inside the house and when they were outside

of the house, which I think is just universally human. I mean, like yourself being like, Oh, reminds me of my immigrant family. But then, you know, really just people who are Italians from New Jersey being like, man, I really know that feeling. That's like, I feel like I gotta be a different person the second I step out my front door, the second I get on my front lawn and show the world something

and hide something about who I am. Yeah, the young character who I think is based off you has a similar name. There's this whole scene where he's code switching and basically, but literally changing his clothing to talk to different changing his clothing changing his voice you know and then the family kind of does this like through the whole series if they're you know leaving the house you know our the daughter her

curly hair becomes straight immediately you know like she's got a straightness and you know our dad's beard turns into a mustache immediately because, oh my god, I can't be viewed as this, you know, fully bearded man. You know, Rumi immediately hides all his curly hair with a hat, which I always did as a kid and continue to do into adulthood out of habit. But it's like that that presentation, you know, that you're kind of picking up on, it's a very human thing. And I think that's what excites me about the show. And, you know ask me like really what the show is about it's about people trying to figure out how to be themselves in the middle of all of that it happens to be set in the early two thousands but.

It is about right now in this really eerie way it is about right now and it's about people who are. are, you know, in a lot of ways also too, dealing just with the financial burdens of capitalism and just, you know, man, like I gotta stretch who I am in order to make a living and I gotta stretch who I am in order to kind of like move forward and move through and to get to do that in such a silly way with like music and jokes and crazy, you know, characters. There are some good musical numbers in this.

Big musical numbers. You just said something that is really interesting which is that all of your work is self-reflective in some way because you understand yourself or trying to understand yourself better than you could perhaps somebody else and that that is sort of the wellspring of your comedy. How do you then try and make that universal? It's kind of just how like any conversation works, right? I, I, I've always felt things kind of open up when you're willing to be vulnerable with people.

And I think the act of just, uh, making it clear that you're putting yourself under the microscope is, is universal in and of itself, because I think people are really genuinely good and introspective and kind of walk around all day going, should I said that? Should I've done that? Should I've worn this shirt? And I think that's what ends up making it a connection point. There's this little title card at the top of every episode

that warns that the characters should not be taken as representation. Why are you so uncomfortable with representation? I think I'm reacting to, when we put out Rami on Hulu, I remember seeing a headline that was like, Muslims, here's the show for you. And then like my heart sinking and going, no, no, this is not, we are two billion people and like a lot of them are not going to like what I'm doing.

And they shouldn't because I am, you know, a guy from New Jersey who thinks that this type of thing is funny. And I think, you know, putting the representation warning for me was a really cathartic thing of just being like, listen, this is not speaking in mass at all. I know you guys didn't elect me. This is stuff that makes me laugh in a way of expression that a lot of people that I worked with all really dug. But putting that card there, you know, was very cathartic for me. Almost to just be like, hey, I agree with you, you know, I don't think this is not a slice of what it's like for everybody, but it is a slice of what it's like for some people and it is the

sense of humor that it is for some people. And I think part of the conversation that I'm trying to crack open a little bit here is like, we have really great writers in my rooms and who bring amazing perspectives to the female characters you know on any of the shows that I've worked on but it's also like we haven't had media that's being fully driven by a female voice that's gonna crack open a whole other slice of this we haven't had media that you know happens mainly in, let's say, the Gulf or mainly in the Middle East that cracks through into kind of like the Hollywood point of view in a meaningful way. And so I think those things are all going to continue to

kind of foster a global conversation, you know. And so part of the representation card is like, I'm really aware of how small the global conversation is when it is radiating from New Jersey. You've talked a lot about specificity in your work and it made me wonder about because you're clearly saying I do not speak for the Muslim American community, certainly not the global Muslim community, which I totally get. But is there something particularly Egyptian about your work that you feel people haven't quite picked up on? Egyptian American? I mean, because the Cuban American experience, of which I am, is very different than the Mexican American experience.

Yes. That, you know what, I think it is pretty Egyptian. And I think that 100%. And actually, I don't think any of our representation warnings said that it doesn't represent Egyptians. So yeah, it probably does represent Egyptians. It's probably, there's a certain Egyptian sarcasm, dark humor that is all over my family that, you know, everything's said through the lens of a joke and, you know, everything is like, has this, it's like, you know, nothing, there's no moment that can go by. It's a grandpa, I love you so much. I can't wait to see you next week, if I'm alive. I do know from some of my Muslim American friends, that because their community has

suffered so much scrutiny, they are really wary of opening themselves up to the eyes of broader culture. Are you thinking or worrying about that perception when you're writing or when you're trying to portray your experience? I think my way of handling that kind of goes back to the work being self-reflective above all. You know, I'm never really like, I'm not satirizing the culture so much as I am looking at the way people behave, right? So it's like I think the father in our show is a lot of people's fathers. You know, we open up our pilot with him handing out his family,

these small electrical bills that show the output that everyone is spending in the house, that shows how much shower water they're using and how much GameCube is being played and all these things. And he's just so worried about getting his family through under budget, you know? And I think that the things that hit on the sensitivities that you're talking about, I try to take a more tender approach

towards, while kind of surrounding it with a lot of other, you know... I like that word, tenderness. Yeah, I started in stand-up where things can be really caustic, and there's literally an entire genre of standup that's like people roasting each other and going for the darkest thing and jokes about other people and really to their expense. And as a fan of comedy, a lot of that stuff

at various levels has made me laugh and has given me a release. But when it comes to what I participate in and what I do, there's just always a level of implication that I'll put myself through. and has given me a release. But when it comes to what I participate in and what I do, there's just always a level of implication that I'll put myself through to kind of say, hey, please don't ever think I'm laughing at you. I'm laughing at myself.

And so I think that's where it's also very liberating because it's like, you know, you're gonna watch it if you dig it. And if you don't, you're just gonna watch something else. Hmm. Does it feel like tender comedy is harder to get made than caustic comedy? I mean, I think that's kind of like the velocity of anything, right?

Like, bad news spreads faster than good news. You know, no one's like, hey, we recycled a lot. There's not really a headline. You know? I mean, talk to any Netflix executive. Any Netflix exec secretly one's like, hey, we recycled a lot. There's not really a headline, you know? I mean, talk to any Netflix executive. Any Netflix exec secretly will be like, hey, can you throw a murder into your show? Can you throw some sexual assault in?

Because then people are going to click through. And you're like, okay. But it's also like, you know, people used to get together to watch public hangings. I don't know, we're like, we're sick. Is that really a thing that someone said to you about, can you throw a murder in there? I mean, they're not explicitly asking, but they would never mind.

So for you, it's like a conscious choice not to engage in that. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. That's that. Yeah, for sure. Because I could be a fan of it and I can kind of see it, but I kind of, it's just not interesting to me. You talked to my cohost, David Marchese in 2020, right around the time of Rami season two,

and you told him about what you called the daily show effect, that Jon Stewart was so good at blending politics and comedy that it became almost expected for comedians to become political and have something to say about the news. And at that time, you really recoiled at that idea. But a lot of your work is inherently political.

So I'm wondering how you think about that part of being a comedian. Yeah, well, I think that I'm always dancing around it. I think at the end of the day, it's like, I'm an entertainer who works with entertainers and there is this obligation to, for me, there's an obligation to be emotionally correct. My obligation above all is to try and hit what something feels like

right on the head. Like that's my nail that I'm trying to hit. The nail I don't want to be asked to hit is to spread facts and information. I don't want that obligation. So it's like, you know, in my stand-up special, I talk about Palestine. Am I like going through every single thing and like debunking, you know, hey, this thing you heard in the news is false. Hey, this thing was worded wrong. Hey, this thing. No, that's, I'm actually talking actually about my dating life.

And while I'm doing that and talking about that, you know, emotional experience, I'm also bringing in this really big thing because it's always kind of about the emotional thing first and foremost, and then how that fits into the larger thing. And that's a very clear line for me. I mean, relatedly, I was wondering about Mo, the show you co-created that's about

an undocumented Palestinian refugee living in Texas. You worked on the second season while the war in Gaza was going on. What was that like? Uh, incredibly... incredibly surreal because... when we started making that show, the average American did not know the difference between Palestine and Pakistan.

It all kind of just sounded the same. And now, you know, it's the global conversation. So I think there's that level of being surreal. And then the clear line for us was, we're going to keep this about the characters and to the thing we said earlier, I'm not about to get into like a news debate about it. It's just like, this is what these guys are going, this is what it looks like when you don't have your papers. We're going to show you what these courts look like.

And it's funny because it's tender. And we're going to show you, you know, what it looks like to fight so hard to go back to your homeland and, and, and then, you know, what ends up happening that's totally out of your control in a way that's really tender. And so it only just refined our guiding principles in terms of like, okay, more people are at the table for the conversation. We actually can do less explaining and we can just do more character work. And, you know, like we don't have to round it out as much because, you know, everyone is aware on a level, at least everyone who's gonna tune in, you know,

it kind of has an idea going in. Yeah. In your most recent comedy special, More Feelings, you talked about how everyone wanted you to do something for their cause, like Iranian women, Pakistani floods. You called yourself the mayor of Muslim disaster, which is very funny. How do you decide what you do want to talk about with all those expectations coming on you? A lot of times it's just like, you know, people that I know who, you know, I mean, places I've been, places I have a personal connection to. I have so many friends in Palestine, it would just be,

I've been there so many times. It would be, it just doesn't make sense. It's like, it's like as if something was happening in your hometown. It's like, how do you not talk about it? You know, my best friend in the world is disabled and has muscular dystrophy. And we've done so many things for the muscular dystrophy association over the years. And, you know, um, there, there is this part of the way that I was raised

where I saw my parents even when they were struggling financially always gave charity. That's just how I was raised. It was like that was never a question. That was a expense in the way that food was. It was like yeah we also have to do charity and so you see your like I it's a really funny thing like my dad is such an open heart. We got to give charity and And so you see your, like, it's a really funny thing. Like, my dad is such an open heart. So, all right, we gotta give charity, and he's kind of stressed about it. But it's just like the reality of it.

And there's something about that that is very intertwined with how I view the world. Like, that's a given. And I think part of the joke, though, is just that feeling of the pressure of every, every, every single thing. Yeah, I mean, you hosted SNL last year, and at the end of your, every, every single thing. Yeah, I mean, you hosted SNL last year and at the end of your monologue,

you made a plea to please free the people of Palestine. And you also said, please free the hostages. Were you nervous about that moment? No. It's more nerve wracking to not say something. It's more nerve-racking to try to shield yourself from whatever criticism is going to come, and plenty of it has come, but I get more tense if I'm like sitting quietly trying to stay safe. if I'm like sitting quietly trying to stay safe, you know. And you know, what I said is completely inoffensive.

That's the other thing is like people are sensitive about it or people might say, well, why didn't you say this or why didn't you do that? But on the whole, there's nothing controversial about any of it. Well, to say Free Palestine and live national television wasn't common. No, no, it's not common. No. Yeah. And talking about the hostages at the same time does anger some on the far left. I mean, one of the directors of the Oscar-winning doc No Other Land recently got a lot of blowback for something similar. Yeah. I mean, look, there are false equivalencies in terms of power. That's what people are talking about. They're talking about terms of power. That's what people are talking about. They're talking about dynamics of power.

And so when you look at Gaza, you're talking about a place where their water and electricity are controlled. So even the framing of the earlier question of calling it a war, you know, I'm like, all right, whatever, call it whatever you wanna call it. It's like, yes, there are two sides who are fighting, but there's a massive power imbalance.

And that is just unequivocally true. And so, and even me saying... How would you frame it? What would be the... How would you describe it? I mean, I just said it's literally literal power. Like they could literally turn off the electricity. They could turn off the water.

They can turn off what aid is getting in. So, so it's like, you know, it's like being in a wrestling match with someone where you're controlling the other guy's calories and how much water he gets. And, you know, it's like, okay, he sneaks a few power bars in that you didn't know about, you know, it's not, it's, it's just, it's, it's its own thing. But where I stand from is like, I know so many people with kids. I hope to have kids. So for me to say all of that in one sentence, nobody wants there to be people getting bombed indiscriminately and nobody wants there to be hostages.

So there's nothing controversial for me in saying it. It is just when you're not saying everything that everyone wants to hear, they get upset. But anything I've said, I could, you know, I mean, jokes are one thing, but anything I've said sincerely, it's just like I could tattoo it to myself because it's not even, there's no problem. That's why I'm not afraid because it's like I, what did I say? Stop killing kids? Oh my God, this guy's crazy.

What? It's not like, it's not a thing. Do you think comedians have more political power now than they used to? What do you think comedians have more political power now than they used to? And what do you think about that? Well, I mean, it's interesting to even think about like what comedy even is anymore, right? Because more people are watching TikTok and Instagram reels than a sitcom. Look, you're interviewing me and there are people who you wouldn't interview who have way more views than I do, like literal views of people watching their stuff, you know,

because they kind of specifically go at the online game, right? And I'm not even being self-deprecating. More the point that I'm more trying to make is that, you know, the individual voice has more outlets than ever, and is in a way trusted more than ever. So it's like the individual, whether it's the individual podcaster, the individual comedian, or the individual online content creator

is having their moment right now. And so I think that does spill into comedy. I think that does spill into comedians. But if you look at the comedians too, who people are really like feel that big catharsis with, it's still kind of our like legacy people, like who've been doing it for so long, who have, you know, whether it be like John, you know,

Stuart, Oliver, Chappelle, you know, guys, you know, people who've like really been around, Chappelle, guys, people who've really been around, that people are like, oh, wow, yeah, they're still talking about this stuff. I'm really curious what they think about this thing. Yeah. Last questions. You're now making movies, you're directing, you're in Poor Things, you've got this new Jesse Armstrong project coming on. This is, you know, the kind of stuff that most actors and entertainers would dream of.

Do you find it harder to connect to your old life, you know, that wellspring that we started talking about at the beginning of this conversation, you know, that kind of has fed so much of your work? Honestly, no, mainly because, you know, I live in New York, I still live near all my friends who grew up, like I grew up with. I'm in a group chat with like 15 of my buddies who I went to high school and college with. Only two of them have seen poor things or seen half of my work. Like they don't, they're just like, they're

not, like I'm around a lot of people who are like dude like oh cool like do your thing or whatever. But I also think the nature of Hollywood, the nature of you know, I don't think that television and film is as much of a separator in terms of experience as before. And I think I mostly view that as there's a lot of pros to that. Like a lot of people have access to creativity, a lot of people have access to cameras, a lot of people, again, like the social media stuff we were talking about. Everyone now can be a star on social media. Yeah, yeah. And I think that that's interesting.

I mean, it's like, you know, I don't... And I purposely use the word interesting, which is a word that like... Can mean many things. It can mean many things, it can mean nothing even, but I will say I'm curious about it. I find it, I like, I'm more peeked towards something like positive than judgmental because the possibilities

for conversations that we've gotten to have are just undeniably larger and I think that that's always good. And you know, even if it's bumpy, you know, in the middle. But yeah, I don't, I feel, you know, just as connected and again, I think like when some of what we were talking about earlier, I just know too many people going through really, really real things and you just try to be there for them and empathize with them. And you also really just sit in the reality of like... Anyone who's got anything good going on knows the reality

that it could not be that way tomorrow, you know? Are there parts of your life that you still feel like you're trying to understand through your art? Are things that you haven't quite worked out yet? Yeah, a lot. I mean, I'm, uh, you know, it's really interesting just... I, you know, just started, my wife and I just kind of being like, oh, we, you know, should we have kids? And just even the, you know, as we kind of start to, so many of my friends are having kids, and you think about being in charge of another person,

like, entire livelihood. You're like in your 30s, right? Yeah, I'm in my 30s. And so it's just kind of like, you go, oh, wow, like, that, the idea of not being a kid and just someone's kid, but like all of that as I kind of start to, you know, really broach that and kind of start to really be like, oh yeah, like, you know, when I started making my show

I was 26 and I'm 34 now. So it's like, that's a lot of time, but I think, and then I like, oh yeah, like, I think I still kind of view myself as a kid, but not really. Like, I am an adult. And so there is that, that aspect of it is, is really so new and just kind of really like figuring out, you know, oh yeah, like when does self discovery, I mean, arguably it's always happening, but at a certain point it's gotta transition into like, hey, this is what I do, this kind of is who I am. And there's something about the kind of like, the solidifying of at least parts of it that feel necessary. And so I think that is something I've really been

exploring a lot on stage that has been very fun and different and new for me. Yeah. Are we gonna have Rami Yusuf dad jokes? Is that like where this is all headed? 100%, yes. On the way, it will happen. Yeah, brace yourself.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. After the break and an unexpected delay between our two conversations due to my appendix bursting, I call Rami back. We talk about some lighter stuff, including why teamwork is at the heart of his creative process. I try as much as possible to be in a position of, okay, here's what I know, here's the larger thing I'm trying to solve, and then honestly kind of like beg people to help me.

Just be like, please, please help me. How do we do this? Can we do this together? Hey, Rami. Hey, are you all right? I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm fine.

I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm fine.

I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm right? I heard you were not feeling well. There was a series of unfortunate events that ended up with me and my sister being operated on by the same surgeon. Whoa. Yeah, it was totally bizarre. Oh my God, I'm so sorry. It's totally fine. I'm hoping it was elective surgery that was kind of a surprise. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm bizarre. Oh my God, I'm so sorry. It's totally fine. I'm hoping it was elective surgery that was cosmetic that you both wanted.

Yeah, wouldn't that be lovely? We got matching nose jobs. So anyway, it was a lot. Well, I'm glad you're better. All right. I was thinking about you this week when I saw all the turmoil in the markets, and I was wondering what it was like to have life imitate art, because you're filming this story about billionaires in a crisis,

and we are seeing billionaires in a crisis IRL. I mean, does it help the performance? Were you talking about it? Like, were there any rewrites in real time? What does that do? You're kind of like right on the money, because it's like, I think that, without giving away too much, there's this video tacked on our on our shoot Andre who actually loads our phones So they feel like real phones with real headlines And I've been having this experience where it's like I go home at the end of the day And I'm looking at my phone and I'm like wait is this Andre's phone like this are these headlines?

like, wait, is this Andre's phone? Are these headlines? So much of what's occurring in real life and kind of how this confluence of government and tech and all these things, yeah, is, again, without going too much into it, is like what's happening and what we're portraying. And so it's been so surreal. We've talked a lot about the self-reflective nature of your work, and you've spent a lot of this first part of your career making your own stuff, telling your stories, but now you're also in other people's projects much more prominently.

Is there something freeing about that? Yeah, it's amazing. I mean, I think, you know, on one level, like from a technical point of view, to get to be an actor for someone with a vision like your ghost or Jesse, it's just really cool because you're only doing one thing, you know, and I think a lot of the opportunities that I have been able to have. I'm very much, you know, doing so many different parts of it because that was just how it went. You know, I tried many years just being an auditioning actor and that wasn't exactly, you know, no one ever

knew what to do with me. You know, it was always kind of like, well, you're not, you know, you're not in, you know, you're not this Indian character we wrote. We don't know if you're the friend or the leading guy. It was always all of that stuff. And so I kind of was very much feeling like I wanted to create a specific frequency. And I've been very lucky to get to do that,

again, with a lot of support, but then to get to now be at a place where people understand what it is that I do and are excited to do it. It is very freeing to kind of show up and focus on one thing and also to help somebody else's vision. And I really like that, not even just as an actor, but as in the creative process. I just really like seeing pieces of art that should exist get to exist. And so I just, there's this kid part of me that gets really lit up of,

oh, whoa, like I could do something on that in some way. Like, cool, like whatever you need. Like, what do you need? You know, it struck me in thinking both about the projects you've created and the projects you've chosen to be a part of, that they're really group projects in a lot of ways. You know, Jesse Armstrong, Yorgos Lanthimos, who directed Poor Things, are really known for their emphasis on ensemble casts.

And the way you talk about your work seems really similar. I'm curious first if that impression seems right to you. And if so, can you just talk a little bit about why that kind of communal creative work appeals to you so much? You know, I think one of the strangest things, you know, when we were making, you know, my first show, Rami, it was called Rami truly out of like, lack of a better option that any of us could find.

I mean, I really did not want that, mainly because I also knew half the people would pronounce it Rammy. But I was really like, something about this isn't exactly how I work. And I think the best stories are serving a philosophy. And I've certainly felt that with your ghost, and I felt that with Jesse, and it's the way that I like to work as well, where you're not feeling this, there's none of this I'm the director energy or I'm the star energy. It's a bunch of people kind of almost coming together saying, okay, we got together to talk about this one idea,

you know, that's what's exciting about making something is that process is like the reach, you know, and, and, and I think that's also what's kind of been this really interesting thing. You know, I have friends in tech who have messaged me lately, you know, with some of the stuff saying, you know, dude, like, look at this, you know, AI movies, you can make the entire movie with AI. It's like, I want to make the movie. Like, I want to struggle with it and I want to reach. And I want to do it with a group of people because, you know,

there's this spiritual connection that just does something totally different. And I think, you know, yeah, that link you're drawing, I don't know that I would have even framed it that way. But as you ask the question, I'm like, oh, yeah, there is this kinship in in in in all of these things. And, you know, certainly this this animated show that we're about to put out was maybe even the biggest group effort I've been a part of because so much of it was out of my hands in terms of, you know, the design stuff and the animation stuff, you know, to get to work with

Monashalabi, to get to work with all these animators who kind of, you know, they so many of the best jokes we have are visual ones that I was surprised by when I was watching back jokes we have are visual ones that I was surprised by when I was watching back things that they interpreted from the script. And so yeah, that style of working is kind of the only way I want to work ever. We didn't actually talk about this, but one of the collaborators you just mentioned on Number One Happy Family USA is Mona Shalabi, who I actually know is a journalist. She's a data journalist. I mean, she's won a Pulitzer, Illustrator, but she's also an executive producer on the show.

She takes very complicated ideas and she manages to make them entertaining and digestible and understandable to regular people. How do you feel like her journalism background shows up in the series at all? Honestly, like there probably wouldn't be a project if she didn't say yes. Because I was like, you know, I had written at that point, I had written the pilot with Pam who

who came from the South Park world and is such a great comedic collaborator. And then I felt okay, but as we go into making this the visual world that we want. When I look at Mona Shelby's work, she's so good, like you said, at breaking down these really wild statistics or questions and actually making them really poppy and colorful and something that you wanna look at before you even know what you're looking at,

it just kind of grabs your eye. And I felt there was already kind of this kinship with what she was doing to what I thought the medium of animation could do for this particular story. And so, you know, I try to really kind of, as much as possible, be in a position of, okay, here's what I know, here's the larger thing I'm trying to solve, and then honestly kind of like beg people to help me.

Just be like, please, please help me. How do we do this? Can we do this together? That's actually how we even got the soundtrack for our show. There's this kid, Moaz Daud, I mean, I call him a kid, he's my age, but he scored the entire show from his apartment in Alexandria, Egypt, and would drive into Cairo to find session musicians to fill the pieces that he didn't know. But I had heard like one track of his and I said, dude, you know, you can do this whole thing. And he was like, no,

I can't. And I just kind of begged him. And then he kind of created this sound that was, you know, unbelievable. I'm glad you mentioned the music because you wrote a lot of these songs also. Why did you have these big animated musical numbers? Have you written music before? I mean, like, tell me, tell me how this came about. So yeah, so the music happened in kind of two parts. There's the score of the show. And then the other piece of the music was,

I was doing these voices, which I've not done a lot of character work. I tend to play things even in my standup, more grounded and conversational. And then I got in the booth and I really found these voices and then while I was there, we were doing the voiceover work in a variety of studios as I was traveling, but one particular studio in Brooklyn had a bunch of guitars, you know, there in-house and a piano in house.

And I had played music in high school. I grew up in the New Jersey emo scene, so we all kind of picked up a guitar and wore tight pants and tried to do that thing for at least, you know, everyone had a stint. So I knew some guitar, but I kind of picked it up and I had just found the voice of the dad, Hussein Hussein. And I was like, you know, what would it sound like if Hussein made music? And this was like between setups and I just started playing. And then I wrote this song kind of spontaneously

about, you know, him at his halal cart and how he, you know, used to be a doctor, but now he can't be a doctor in America and he just has to sell meat. And I wrote this track, Money for the Meat, and then it became this element of the show that is really truly one of my favorites. And we kind of, I ended up writing like-

I love Spies in the Mosque. Yes, Spies in the Mosque. Like a Backstreet Boys bop about surveillance, basically. And so, you know, we, and then we kind of made an album and added a really funny, like just a fun element. And you know, I actually was like, I was, I was talking, I had this really fun day where I, I got to do a bucket list goal of playing basketball with Adam Sandler.

Oh, wow. And I was talking to him about... Is he good? He's amazing. I mean, he's great. I mean, he fouls a lot and he's like very aggressive, but he's great. He'd probably tell you I foul too much too. But I was talking to him about how when I was a kid, hearing his Hanukkah song and hearing all that music that he made

was so wild because it was out of the pattern of just hearing Christmas songs. I was telling him about this thing almost in a way, it felt very exciting to me to get to make these songs. In our second season, we actually have like, we make a bit of like a Ramadan Eid song that comes out. But this idea of hearing these animated jingles from a totally different perspective and different voice, I remember seeing that Sandler Hanukkah stuff and just going, whoa, this is very different.

And then it was very exciting to kind of get to tap into something like that here. And also totally by accident. Again, like not a goal going in, but then felt like this really organic thing that the character found. What did Adam say? I mean, he was so hyped and so supportive and like,

yeah, it was really, yeah, it was so cool. I mean, I've been a fan for him forever, you know, of him forever. Who won? It was a two on two game and I don't, I wasn't on his team. I think we split games, but I think ultimately I think he might've, I think he might've won, but I must have lost because I can't remember. Because I think I would... I think if I had won, I'd confidently say I won.

I'm pretty sure I lost. That's Rami Youssef. Number 1 Happy Family USA debuts on Prime Video on April 17th. And since we talked, the Jesse Armstrong movie has a title, Mountainhead. It'll be out on HBO and Max on May 31st. This conversation was produced by Wyatt Orm. It was edited by Annabel Bacon, mixing by Sophia Landman,

original music by Diane Wong and Marian Lozano, photography by Philip Montgomery. Our senior broker is Priya Matthew and Seth Kelly is our senior producer. Our executive producer is Alison Benedict. Special thanks to Rory Walsh, Ronan Barelli, Jeffrey Miranda, Maddie Masiello, Jake Silverstein, Paula Schuman and Sam Dolnik. If you like what you're hearing, follow or subscribe to The Interview wherever you get your podcasts to read or listen to any of our conversations. You can always go to nytimes.com slash the interview and you can email us anytime at theinterview at nytimes.com. Next week, David talks with comedian Nate Bargetzi about

why he's kept his act so clean. I have a lot of grandmothers come to my shows and they love me. I do really good with grandmothers. And I always love that because I don't think there's much being made that they could go to. Certainly not stand-up comedy. No, no, no. That's the goal. I'm trying to be only grandmothers.

Shows are at 8.30 a.m. That's the late show. I'm Lulu Garcia Navarro and this is the interview from the New York Times.