The Daily - The Killing of bin Laden’s Successor

Episode Date: August 2, 2022

On Monday, President Biden announced that the United States had killed Ayman al-Zawahri in a drone strike in Afghanistan. Al-Zawahri was the leader of Al Qaeda. A long time number two to Osama bin Laden and the intellectual spine of the terrorist group, he assumed power after bin Laden was killed by U.S. in 2011. Who was al-Zawahri, and what does his death mean for Afghanistan’s relationship with the United States and for the threat of global terrorism? Guest: Eric Schmitt, a senior correspondent covering national security for The New York Times.Want more from The Daily? For one big idea on the news each week from our team, subscribe to our newsletter. Background reading: The drone strike that killed al-Zawahri, a key plotter of the 9/11 attacks, capped a 21-year manhunt. Killed at 71, al-Zawahri led a life of secrecy and violence. For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday. 

From The New York Times, I'm Sabrina Tavernisi. This is The Daily. My fellow Americans, on Saturday, in my direction, the United States successfully concluded an airstrike in Kabul, Afghanistan that killed the emir of al-Qaeda, Iman al-Zawahiri. On Monday, President Biden announced that the United States had just killed the leader of al-Qaeda, one of the key masterminds behind the September 11th attacks, in a drone strike in Afghanistan. We make it clear again tonight that no matter how long it takes, no matter where you hide, if you are a threat

to our people, the United States will find you and take you out. My colleague Eric Schmidt on Ayman al-Zawahiri and what his death means for Afghanistan's relationship with the United States and for the threat of global terrorism. It's Tuesday, August 2nd. So Eric, we're talking to you at 8.15 on Monday night. President Biden just finished a surprise address to the nation. And he told us about a successful counterterrorism operation in Afghanistan. What do we need to know about this man, Zawahiri?

Well, first and foremost, what you need to know about Zawahiri was he succeeded Osama bin Laden when bin Laden was killed in a Navy SEAL raid in 2011. He was the longtime number two to bin Laden, but he was more than that. He was also the intellectual spine for Al-Qaeda. If you think of bin Laden as kind of the front man, who's the glitzy, glamorous guy who brought prestige and money to al-Qaeda, Zawahiri was really the man who was the ideologue, who was the chief operating officer, if you will. And of this pair, he was really the more hard line of the two. And how did he get drawn into Islamic politics and then to terrorism? So it's interesting. He was born in an upscale Cairo neighborhood in Egypt, but was radicalized pretty early. As a teenager, he was drawn to some of the very hardline conservative Islamic thinkers of the day. So he had this very

political side of him. But he was also starting classes at medical school. He wanted to be a surgeon. So he has this duality to him growing up. And then by the early 1980s, 1981 to be exact, he's involved in a plot to assassinate the president of Egypt, Anwar Sadat. And he's jailed for that and spends several years in jail before he's released. And then he's drawn back again into this very kind of hardline conservative Sunni Islam movement. And he finds himself in Pakistan in the late 80s. And interestingly enough, bin Laden sometimes lectured at the hospital where Zawahiri worked in Pakistan. And it was there they struck up this friendship and Zawahiri became Bin Laden's personal physician.

And helped Bin Laden begin thinking about specific ways how it hurt the Western powers and the Middle Eastern governments that the West supported. And the two of them become a very powerful pair. And it's shortly after that that they form Al-Qaeda in the late 1980s. Okay, so bin Laden and Zawahiri found Al-Qaeda together. What was their plan? What did they hope to accomplish? So when they form Al-Qaeda, in many ways their goal is to ultimately create a religious state by getting rid of the secular governments in their own region, in places like

Egypt, but also driving out the Westerners, the Western troops that existed at the time in places like Saudi Arabia, to drive them out as well. And certainly by the mid and late 1990s, Zawahiri writes a very important document that's intended to kind of unite militant groups in the common cause of killing Americans anywhere. They're the ultimate infidels. And so I think it's there where you see Zawahiri again is this intellectual spying of al-Qaeda, basically giving religious justification for the killings of Americans and other Westerners. And what do they do? What starts to happen? So they start setting up training camps

to basically train fighters throughout the region, throughout North Africa, throughout the Middle East to carry out these goals. But they really get on everyone's radar in 1998 when they attack two United States embassies in East Africa, in Kenya and Tanzania, and kill more than 200 people in these just brutal

bombings. They're just stunning for their ferocity. And then two years later, Al-Qaeda struck again, this time bombing an American warship in Yemen, the USS Cole, killing 17 American sailors and wounding 40 others. Taken together, the embassy bombings and the attack on the USS Cole dramatically elevated al-Qaeda's profile in the international terrorism scene. And of course, their biggest attack is yet to come, September 11th, 2001. And Zawahiri was a central plotter in this attack.

Right, so September 11th happens, and this is ultimately what leads the U.S. to invade Afghanistan, because the U.S. said the Taliban in Afghanistan was harboring al-Qaeda. Pakistan, the Taliban government falls. But al-Qaeda is still very much active in these mountainous areas along the Afghan-Pakistan border. And they keep trying to carry out attacks into Afghanistan. The United States carries out drone strikes for many years inside of Pakistan. But as this fight is going on, al-Qaeda is successfully growing its brand. It's spreading to different countries in Africa, in the Middle East, in Southwest Asia, to the point where it's really become an international terrorist organization. Until finally, in 2011, Osama bin Laden is killed in the Navy SEAL raid.

I remember that raid. I remember that raid. I remember that night and the photo of all of them, including, of course, Obama and then Vice President Biden in the Situation Room, that secure White House room. They were all watching on the screen as the Navy SEAL team that was sent to kill bin Laden was doing its work. That's right. And they made it out to be this was going to be an end of an era. This was a threat that the United States had been pursuing Osama bin Laden

for a decade. And they were bringing home a justice is the way it was put. That after 10 years on the run, they had tracked down bin Laden and they had killed him. And that threat they made to me, believe, was over. But it wasn't. It wasn't at all. Because Zawahiri, who had been the number two guy for all these years, was about to step out from the shadows and become al-Qaeda's new leader. We'll be right back. So, Eric, you reminded us that bin Laden was killed 11 years ago and that al-Qaeda had not entirely gone away. So what has Zawahiri been doing all this time?

So what Zawahiri inherited when he took over the mantle of al-Qaeda from bin Laden was a network, a network of Al-Qaeda affiliates around the world. And Zawahiri, remember, is not the inspiring, glamorous figure that bin Laden is, but he's a competent guy. He keeps this network together and does a couple of important things. He allows these franchises greater autonomy than they had, but they're also recognizing that Zawahiri is who he is. He is the longtime number two, now leader of Al-Qaeda. They're operating within his strategic vision for the organization. So even though it may not have been as dramatic

a leadership style, it's a steady one and the growth is steady around the world. Al-Qaeda is still drawing in members and creating new franchises in different places, trying to take advantage of where either there was a little government or poor government where they could come in and try and install their brand. And Eric, are these franchises carrying out attacks? They are. In Somalia, for instance, Shabab is the Al-Qaeda affiliate there. They carry out a number of attacks, including one just a couple of years ago in 2020 that killed three Americans in Kenya. You had Al-Qaeda affiliates in Syria and in the Sahel portion of West Africa that are carrying out attacks against individuals, locals there.

So Eric, Al-Qaeda still is a threat, as you point out. But I feel like over the past decade, I heard much more about ISIS than Al-Qaeda. So ISIS is formed basically from the ashes of the Al-Qaeda affiliate in Iraq. After that war is over, the Americans leave, and you have the remnants of that group form first in Syria, and then in 2014 invade into Iraq as the Islamic State. And the Islamic State and al-Qaeda become great rivals. If you think of al-Qaeda as kind of the tortoise in this argument, they're the slow but steady, wanting to take over piece by piece. ISIS is the

hare in this argument. They are flashy, they're dramatic attacks that oftentimes do kill civilians, that oftentimes do kill civilians, and they are out to also establish their brand around the world. They just want to do it in much faster form. They don't have the patience that al-Qaeda has. They're willing to grant franchises to various groups without going through the rigorous vetting that al-Qaeda had done. And so you end up with this conflict where you have ISIS and al-Qaeda affiliates in many of the same places, in Syria, for instance, or in West Africa, where they end up fighting each other. And this is a test of Zawahiri's leadership. Can he manage al-Qaeda through this period where ISIS very much becomes the go-to terrorist brand, whether it's in Syria or in Iraq. ISIS is trying to form a caliphate, this religious state in Iraq, and they're trying to persuade al-Qaeda fighters and followers to come over to their brand as a much more successful one. And so that is one of the great challenges that Zawahiri has to face.

So al-Qaeda is kind of fighting for relevance at this point with ISIS. But at the same time, the U.S. decides it no longer wants to have troops in Afghanistan. That's right. So by last summer, the last of the American forces are withdrawing from Afghanistan. That's right. So by last summer, the last of the American forces are withdrawing from Afghanistan. And ultimately, they leave and the Taliban take over. And that, of course, realizes one of the greatest fears that if the Taliban are in control again, that they could bring Al Qaeda back into Afghanistan again. Al Qaeda could resume building training camps, and they could start launching attacks from Afghanistan again. Al-Qaeda could resume building training camps, and they could start

launching attacks from Afghanistan again. What happens, interestingly enough, is that just earlier this year, Zawahiri feels comfortable enough in this new Afghanistan that he can come in out of the cold. He first sends his wife and daughter and grandchildren to a safe house in Kabul in a very nice neighborhood there. And then soon after, he secretly joins them. So there he is, it's full circle. He's coming back into the place where he and Osama bin Laden plotted these attacks against the United States, the 9-11 attacks. And here he is back in the capital of Afghanistan, living comfortably, although secretively, right there, until the CIA killed him with a couple of missile strikes on Saturday night.

And did the U.S. carry out this strike because it sees Zawahiri as a current threat? Or was the strike more about retaliation for the attacks he'd committed in the past? Well, it's really both. The United States was going to track down the perpetrators of 9-11 no matter how long it took. And so that was one very important reason for going after Zawahiri now. But the other reason is, even though he may not have direct control over the day-to-day operations of these various far-flung affiliates, he still has great influence over the network overall, over this organization. It's his strategic vision. He's still one of the founding members. And to take him off the battlefield is very significant for Al-Qaeda as an organization.

It's unclear who will come next as his successor, and there will be a successor, and whether that person will, you know, have the same credibility to lead this organization. And so the death of Zawahiri is very important, but al-Qaeda has proven to be an incredibly resilient terrorist organization and no doubt will continue to try and carry out attacks against the United States and the West in the future. So, Eric, this seems to put the Taliban in a pretty awkward situation. I mean, here's the leader of al-Qaeda in their capital city after they promised that they wouldn't allow that. So what does it mean for the U.S.'s relationship

with the Taliban? Well, Sabrina, it's made an already very complicated relationship even more fraught. Remember, there was some hope, a little glimmer of hope in the last several months that these two longtime enemies, the Taliban and the United States government, might be able to work some things out. The Taliban wanted to get billions of dollars in reserves here in the United States back. The United States was still hoping to get hundreds, maybe thousands of additional Afghans who'd help the war effort out, as well as at least one American who's been detained.

Finding Zawahiri, this key al-Qaeda figure in Kabul and killing him really makes moving forward very difficult, I think, and very unclear how this is all going to happen. suggests that the United States will continue to carry out military action when it can in Afghanistan against its enemies, as President Biden said tonight. And where we go from here is very unclear. Eric, thank you. Thank you. Eric, thank you. Thank you. We'll be right back.

Here's what else you should know today. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is expected to visit Taiwan this week, despite warnings from China that a visit to the self-governing island off its coast would anger it. Pelosi's stop there would be the highest-level visit by a U.S. official in 25 years. The Biden administration said the visit did not signal a change in U.S. policy toward Taiwan, an independent country that many analysts believe could be facing a takeover by China in the coming months. And... We've never seen something like this.

Folks who deal with this for a living have been doing it for 20 years, have never seen water this high, whole roads washed out. We still can't get to a lot of people. Flash flooding across eastern Kentucky over the weekend has left at least 35 people dead and 37 more missing. Mudslides and overflowing rivers tore houses from their foundations and destroyed roads and bridges, making it hard for rescue workers to reach victims. Forecasters said heavy rain would continue into today. Finally, Deshaun Watson, the NFL star quarterback accused by more than two dozen women of sexual

misconduct during massage treatments, was suspended for six games for violating the league's code of conduct. The punishment was less severe than many had anticipated, and Watson is expected to keep his historic pay package of $230 million. Today's episode was produced by Rachel Quester, Moosh Zady, and Will Reed. It was edited by Lisa Chow and Larissa Anderson,

contains original music by Dan Powell and Marian Lozano, and was engineered by Chris Wood. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsberg of Wonderly. That's it for The Daily. I'm Sabrina Tavernisi. See you tomorrow.