The Daily - The President’s Damaging Lie

Episode Date: November 6, 2020

When President Trump took to the podium in the White House briefing room Thursday evening to give a statement on the election count, he lied about the legality of the votes against him in key battleground states and called into question the integrity of poll workers, laying a conspiracy at the feet of Democrats.Both the Republican establishment and the conservative news media have been split in their responses to his claims.Inside the White House and the Trump campaign, there is shock at the direction the contest has taken — many in his camp believed that a win was certain.Guest: Maggie Haberman, a White House correspondent for The New York Times. For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily Background reading: In a stunning appearance in the White House, Mr. Trump lied about vote-counting, conjuring up a conspiracy of “legal” and “illegal” ballots being tabulated and claiming without evidence that states were trying to deny him re-election.

From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily. Today, as Joe Biden takes a growing lead in the Electoral College, President Trump falsely claims that the election is being stolen from him. Maggie Haberman on his dangerous strategy. It's Friday, November 6th. Maggie, it feels like we just watched something historic and dark and profoundly alarming just happen at the White

House. Michael, that's right. We just witnessed something scary at the White House. We just witnessed something that could have profound impacts on how voters feel about the democratic process, about their trust in the sanctity of the electoral process, and something that could have profound implications long after Donald Trump is out of office. And so I just want to start by acknowledging that this will be a challenging event to talk about and cover journalistically, but we're going to do it. It's important. And we're not going to play much of this news conference that the president gave because

it was defined by lies and misinformation. But I do want to talk about what the president was trying to do here. And I wonder if you can walk us through what happened tonight. So, Michael, the president announced abruptly that he would be giving a statement from the White House briefing room after being out of view all day. He was working in the Oval Office. House briefing room after being out of view all day. He was working in the Oval Office. He took to the podium in the briefing room about an hour after they announced it. Thank you very much. Thank you. And he looked downcast. He looked dejected. He had something in his hand that were some notes that he later read from. And to the extent that aides knew what

he was going to say, they said that he was going to talk about polls and polling site issues in various states. But most of them didn't really know what he was going to say. Good evening. I'd like to provide the American people with an update on our efforts to protect the integrity of our very important 2020 election. If you count the legal votes, I easily win. And when he spoke, he began by declaring that if you count the quote-unquote legal votes, that he had won the election easily. This is obviously a lie.

The votes that have been counted in various states are legal. We've just never heard something like this from a U.S. president, at least not in the last century and possibly not ever. We won these and many other victories despite historic election interference from big media, big money, and big tech. And then he turned to what he painted as essentially a broad conspiracy against him by Democrats, by polling site workers, and by the media. He talked about media polling before the election, and he has talked about some of this

before, but he was painting it as part of a grander effort to suppress his voters, to try to keep people from turning out because they felt that he would be losing so badly and that newspapers were all in on it. Maggie, I want to pause to talk about that part of this news conference. The polls were off again this year. They did, in a few cases like Wisconsin, overestimate how well Joe Biden would do in the battleground states. But the story the president is telling here is that they were intentionally off and that news organizations doing polling got it wrong on purpose, the notion being, from what he said,

that that would somehow suppress Republican voters either by discouraging them or discouraging fundraising. Is that what he's saying? Michael, that's exactly right. And you are correct that some of the polling was off this year in several places, but he painted it as part of a broader scheme to keep his voters from wanting to go out on election day and vote. Right. Which is not true. This is, I would hope it was self-evident, but this is not true, but it is decidedly not true. And what do you think the

intention of that focus is from the president? So the president, Michael, has long painted outcomes that he doesn't like as part of a grander conspiracy or effort to undermine him. And what he was trying to do here is suggest that there was a broad attempt to take this election from him and that everything that he doesn't like was part of that. And as we've seen him do many times in the past, he reaches for sort of random disparate pieces of evidence that he can point to, to say that these support his statement. In the case of the media, it was the polling.

In the case of individual states, he pointed to random incidents involving specific ballots or election workers. Right. Let's talk about what the president is claiming about the process and the personnel involved in counting the actual vote from Election Day. Sure. So in terms of the process, Michael, he pointed to a bunch of different incidents in a couple of states, and he described the lead that he had had. We were winning in all the key locations by a lot, actually. And then our numbers started miraculously getting whittled away in secret. As getting, quote unquote, whittled down. So, for instance, he pointed to Georgia, and he said that...

Likewise in Georgia, I won by a lot, a lot. His lead had been close to 300,000 votes on election night in that state, but it, quote unquote, got whittled down. And now it's getting to be to a point where I'll go from winning by a lot to perhaps being even down a little bit. He pointed to something similar in Michigan. And that got whittled down. In Michigan. And that got whittled down. In every case, they got whittled down. And the idea here that he was positing, which, again, is baseless,

is that he had these leads, and then people who oppose him and election workers forged some deal to try to manufacture enough ballots to overtake his lead. Right. And Maggie, what is actually happening in these states that the president is trying to characterize as some form of corruption? What's happening, Michael, is vote counting. Only since this man became president has there been a president announcing that the election

results should be called on election night. Sometimes it is, but sometimes it's not clear because these are close elections. And it's been very clear that this was always going to be a close race in certain states. And this is an election with a very high number of absentee ballots and early votes. Because of the pandemic, a number of states adjusted their processes. And we've never had this number of states having such a huge quantity of early votes and absentee ballots. So they are counting votes. They are doing what is legal, and he is painting it as a conspiracy against him. Right. And Maggie, correct me if I'm wrong, I believe the president himself is partially responsible for the reason the count is working the way it is. He was involved

in filing lawsuits, asking that mail-in ballots not be counted before election day. In some cases, he absolutely was, Michael. And I would argue there's another way that he is responsible for this, which is that he has been casting aspersions on the by-mail voting system writ large for months. Republican leaders asked him, his own campaign advisors asked him to please stop doing that because he was depressing his own vote, including among seniors who vote heavily by absentee ballot by doing this. And by making people mistrustful of a system, he was potentially impacting his own voters. There's every reason to believe that that could have happened, too. So, yes, the president has created a situation, at least partly by his own hand, where more

Democrats were voting by absentee and by early vote. Right. And basically, he's describing a phenomenon we had always anticipated, which is this kind of surge of Republican votes on Election Day for Trump, right? This red mirage yielding to mail-in ballots a day later or two days later breaking for Biden. And he is describing that counting process and the inevitable fluctuation of the vote count as fraudulent or illegal. When in fact, as you just said, it is very much just the process in place right now in this country during a pandemic. And one he played a role in. That's exactly right. It's very much this process.

And it's been very clear that that was always going to be the process. Maggie, the president also focused on observers, the people who watch vote counting. In this case, at this point, many of them watching mail-in ballots get counted. And he seems to be suggesting, basically, that something sinister is going on there. Can you help me understand what he is saying?

What he's trying to say, Michael, is that poll watchers, which is legal to have poll watchers, for his team have been kept illegally from watching. As we understand it, that is not what has happened in our understanding of incidents where there have been debates. There have been efforts to keep poll watchers at bay or at least at a certain distance. But again, he is making it all sound as if it is part of some effort to entirely discount everything he's doing. So how does this press conference ultimately end? So the press conference winds down with the president focusing on Joe Biden Democrats and saying that he wants them to say they only want, quote unquote, legal votes to be counted.

Because they talk about votes, and I think they should use the word legal, legal votes. We want every legal vote counted, and I want every legal vote counted. Democrats would say that that is what they believe, and they've never said otherwise. And we can't let that happen to the United States of America. It's not a question of who wins, Republican, Democrat, Joe, myself. We can't let that happen to our country. And then he's trying to sound something of a more sanguine note for a second, where it's sort of, it's not a question of who wins,

whether it's Republican, Democrat, Joe, myself. What he was doing, Michael, was doing something of a dismount from this sort of just shocking several minutes he had spent at the podium, combining what clearly people had said to him to say, which was, it's not about who won. And then he goes and adds his own version, which is this is all being stolen and it's a disgrace on our country. And so that's what was happening there. As you know, I've claimed certain states and he's claiming states. And he ends by saying that I've claimed certain states and he's claiming states. And he ends by saying that he's claimed certain states and then Biden has claimed certain states, which we just want to be very clear here is not how this works. But ultimately, I have a feeling judges are

going to have to rule. And that he has a feeling that, quote unquote, judges are going to have to be involved in this. And the person who has been filing a lot of lawsuits so far is Trump and his campaign. Right, he sort of commits himself to a path of litigation. To the extent, Michael, that Donald Trump commits himself to anything, yes, he certainly forecast that they're going to go down the legal route for the foreseeable future. But there's been a lot of shenanigans,

and we can't stand for that in our country. Thank you very much. Maggie, in spite of the fact that the president is saying he could still win this election, it felt to some degree that in his own peculiar way, you would know much better than me,

that in this news conference, he was acknowledging that he's losing this race, right? He's not denying the math, he's denying its legitimacy. That's exactly right, Michael. Look, this was, to the extent that we see politicians, and you and I have covered politicians who have won and who have lost, and every politician who loses goes through something of a stage of grief. This is a president who had never so much as run for city council when he ran for and won the presidency. And losing is a wholly unfamiliar experience for him in life in general, but certainly something that just can't be spun, which is what he's trying to do. I should note that the area that the campaign is looking toward in terms of how it could win, the path toward winning,

the president and his advisors hold out some hope that he could possibly win both Arizona and Pennsylvania. Without those two, there is no path for him retaining the presidency. But I think he knows that this is turning against him at the moment, and I think he is struggling to come to terms with that. We'll be right back. Maggie, let's go back to understand everything that led up to this press conference on Thursday night. The last time we talked to you was on election day. So take us back to election night and help us understand what has gone on in the Trump camp since then.

On election night, President Trump was in the White House. He was in the residence. He was watching returns with family members and only a very small number of advisors came in and out. And initially, they were very excited. And they were very excited because the first major state, the first battleground to get called was Florida. Right. And it was called for the president. And a lot of the public polling leading into election night had suggested that Florida was not just likely to go for Biden, but would heavily go for Biden. And so for Trump, who's very superstitious, winning Florida became reminiscent of his 2016 win. When on election night that year, Florida going his way was vital.

And so his folks and he felt like this was going to be something of a recasting of that night. And they were feeling great. And then suddenly. OK, time out. This is a big development. Yeah. The Fox News decision desk is calling Arizona for Joe Biden. That is a big get for the Biden campaign. Fox News called Arizona for Biden. Are you 100 percent sure of that call and when you made it and why did you make it? Absolutely. We made it after basically a half hour of debating, is it time yet? Because it's been clear for a while. And their excitement and their good mood was completely punctured. The president, some of his top advisors were absolutely livid. They started frantically reaching out to Fox to

try to get the call taken back. Jared Kushner, the president's senior advisor and son-in-law, called Rupert Murdoch. Wow. None of this was to any avail. And a few hours later, the Associated Press called Arizona for Biden as well. Some of the president's advisors wanted him to go out and talk at some point before midnight so that he could be the first person to speak. But that didn't happen. And instead, Joe Biden went out and gave a statement in Delaware, a very brief statement.

But a very traditional, when an election is not called yet, statement of, you know, we're going to win this. And the president was livid again. He tweeted, which is often a sign that he's not happy. And he tweeted he was going to give a statement of his own. And around 2 a.m., maybe a little bit after, give a statement he did. He descended from the upper floors of the White House residence. It was on the east side of the White House. He spoke at a podium on a platform that had been built for the night. And he was angry. He said that this was a fraud on the American people.

He said that he had won the election. And that set the tone for what has happened over the last few days. Right. And it's soon after that, the next morning and afternoon that the lawsuits begin. Correct. Now, some of the lawsuits were already in place. There was a lawsuit in Pennsylvania that the campaign joined. But in several states, they suddenly started filing lawsuits over the last few days. Georgia was one of the places. They announced a lawsuit that they were planning to file in Nevada.

A bunch of key battlegrounds that had either been leaning toward Joe Biden or were likely to get called for Joe Biden that they wanted to try to impact the counting in. And what were the nature of these lawsuits? to impact the counting in. And what were the nature of these lawsuits? It depends by state, but in some cases it's about counting irregularities. In the case of Pennsylvania, it was joining an existing suit related to an extended period of time for when ballots that had come in during a certain period could be counted, whether they were after the actual election day for a few days. And some of them are seen by legal experts as fairly frivolous. I imagine you've been on the phone with White House officials, campaign officials, all day long in the past 48 hours. What else have you been hearing about

what's been going on inside this operation since election night? Look, there's a sense of shock for some people. You'd really be surprised at how many people, particularly in the White House and also on the campaign, believe that Donald Trump winning was a certainty. And so there are many of them in a state of shock. And I think that brings us back to tonight and to the president's speech.

And Maggie, as I was watching, I couldn't help but think that in many ways, Trump has spent the last four years laying the groundwork for what he was doing during this news conference. By attacking the media, attacking the electoral process, something he started doing the moment he was elected. Yes. Attacking any system he sees as disadvantaging him and portraying those systems as run by his enemies. In some ways, it feels like what happened on Thursday night was inevitable. I think that's right, Michael. But I think something can be inevitable and still nonetheless be shocking. We're talking about a president who called the election he won rigged in 2016. Right, because he felt he should have won the popular vote, even made outrageous allegations about millions of illegal votes being cast for Hillary Clinton, and that's why she won the popular vote. He has made allegations about

voter fraud ever since then, only escalating the scale with which he has made those allegations. And he has questioned anything that has been in any way in his mind in his way or critical of him or against him. And so, sure, all of that came cacophonously together for him to say something that, again, was not surprising but was shocking. Yeah, I'm interested that you're using that word. I don't consider you easily shocked. I'm interested that you're using that word. I don't consider you easily shocked. I am not easily shocked. And as you know, I have been surprised at how often people have been shocked over the four years by some of what he does, because it's been clear that he's, if you were paying attention to his campaign in 2016, that this was what he's going to do. But seeing an American president calling a still-in-progress election amid a pandemic a fraud on the public was shocking. It was just something fundamentally different.

In this moment, Maggie, it feels to me like the ultimate question is, can our system sustain this kind of lie told by the president from the White House? And it feels like the answer is going to be dependent on the degree to which the president's message is either embraced or rejected by the president's allies within the system. And here I'm thinking about conservative media, Republicans in Congress, and the rest of the administration. The Department of Justice, for example. And then, of course, the federal judges appointed by the president. So what do we know so far? It's an excellent question, Michael. And so far, there are varying answers. Fox News reporters and anchors, some of them have pushed back aggressively

on what the president has said, people like Brett Baier. But then you have Sean Hannity, who embraces a lot of what the president has said, people like Brett Baier. But then you have Sean Hannity, who embraces a lot of what the president said. You have Republican leaders like Mitch McConnell, the Senate majority leader, silent as the president is saying this. Most Republican members of Congress, particularly leadership among Republicans in Congress, have been conspicuously silent so far. among Republicans in Congress have been conspicuously silent so far. You have most members of the Republican leadership class privately expressing concern about some of the president's words, but afraid of contradicting him publicly for a variety of reasons.

One of which is that nobody wants to exacerbate an already volatile situation. Maggie, while we've been talking, so I can't hold you accountable for knowing this, Senators Lindsey Graham and Senator Ted Cruz both appeared on Fox on Sean Hannity and said that they stand with the president. So that's both conservative media and some pretty heavy-hitting Republicans in Congress

saying that they support the president and his message in this moment. Those are two heavy hitters, but at least Lindsey Graham is doing it under some duress. The president's oldest son, Donald Trump Jr., tweeted attacking Lindsey Graham for not speaking out before. Ted Cruz also knows that a lot of his own voters are Trump voters. And I imagine that's part of why he's doing it too. So we shall see if other people embrace this call. And what about federal judges, especially those appointed by the president? It's too soon to say, Michael, because these cases,

many of them are just beginning to make their way through the system. There is a goal of some of the president's allies to get these lawsuits to wind up in the Supreme Court. Maggie, does it matter whether or not the systems we're talking about support the president in his approach to this strategy of claiming fraud and deception? Well, Michael, it certainly matters if the courts don't support him. I mean, they're going to be, in some cases, something of a, if not a last word, then at least a backstop. It matters in terms of the president's ability to run out the string, whether the leadership in the Senate and the House support him on this. And to be clear, there is no chance that Mitch McConnell is happy about

what the president has been saying. But how he chooses to deal with that, I think, is an open question. And it will be determined by what the president does in the coming weeks and when this election is called and exactly how it's called. But the biggest question for me, honestly, in terms of systems is conservative media. Because conservative media has been so incredibly important to the president's rise in the first place as a candidate. And so if they turn on him... If they turn on him, then it will be, I think, a lot harder for him to get oxygen and to sustain whatever it is he's trying to do to keep the election going, if he is at that point.

Without those three, without all of those three, there's really no path. You know, regardless of whether the systems support the president in this strategy or tell him it's time to stop it, and I guess regardless of exactly how the president proceeds over the next few weeks if he ends up losing, for the 69 million people who voted for him, as they think about the 73 million fellow Americans, their neighbors and their coworkers, who voted for Joe Biden. I mean, what is this going to do to half the country? Part of why the U.S. system works historically is faith in it and belief that it is ultimately one of integrity and one to be believed in. And if you have literally half or slightly less than half the country

potentially questioning that, it's very hard to go back. Right. We've already seen trust in our media undermined. We've already seen trust in our government undermined. But it feels like what we haven't seen faith undermined in, where it still exists, was in our election system. That's right. So in 2000, Michael, a lot of people had their faith in the election system shaken because the presidential election was contested. But in that contest, you had two nominees, Al Gore and George W. Bush, who were committed to the sanctity and integrity of how people viewed this process. And they were committed to moving forward peacefully. That is not what Donald Trump is committed to.

He has made that very clear with everything he has done this week. And he and his family members are openly pressuring other Republicans to join him in that call. This is a potentially dangerous escalation. Well, this is one of those interviews where it doesn't quite feel like thank you is the right word, but I appreciate your time, Maggie. Michael, thank you for having me. As of early Friday morning, Joe Biden was 17 electoral college votes shy of reaching the 270 needed to win, while President Trump needed 56 electoral college votes. As counting continued in several battleground states, Biden appeared to be on the cusp of taking the lead in Pennsylvania. If that were to happen and Biden were to win the state, he would surpass 270

and win the presidency. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. Here's what else you need to know today. In a series of closely watched referendums in California, voters there rejected affirmative action, an expansion of rent control, and a law that gives greater labor protections to ride-sharing and delivery drivers. The outcomes were a stinging setback for liberals in the country's largest state and a reliable bastion of progressive reform.

In the most prominent referendum, California voters allowed companies like Uber, Lyft, and DoorDash to avoid having to employ drivers and pay for benefits like health care and unemployment insurance, a measure that was heavily supported by labor unions. The Daily is made by Alexandra Lee Young, Lisa Chow, Eric Krupke, Mark George, Luke Vanderplu, Kelly Prime, Sindhu Yanasambandhan, MJ Davis-Lynn, Austin Mitchell, Nina Patuk, Dan Powell, Dave Shaw, Sydney Harper, Daniel Guimet, Hans Butow, Robert Jimison, Mike Benoit, Bianca Gaver, Liz O'Balin, Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsberg of Wonderly. Special thanks to Sam Dolnick, Michaela Bouchard, Lauren Jackson, Julia Simon, Mahima Chablani, Nora Keller, Sophia Milan, and Des Ibequa. That's it for The Daily. I'm Michael Barbaro. See you on Monday.