The Daily - The Testimony of Michael Cohen

Episode Date: February 28, 2019

Michael Cohen is headed to prison for lying on behalf of Donald Trump. On Wednesday, he told Congress that he’s done protecting the president. Guest: Maggie Haberman, who covers the White House for The New York Times. For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily.

From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily Look. Today, Michael Cohen is headed to prison for lying on behalf of Donald Trump. Yesterday, he told Congress he's done protecting the president. he told Congress he's done protecting the president. It's Thursday, February 28th. Maggie Haberman, how does this hearing actually begin on Wednesday morning? The hearing began in very dramatic fashion with Elijah Cummings,

the chair of the committee, a Democrat, holding the gavel. Michael Cohen walking in through this crush of photographers and reporters, trailed by Lanny Davis, his attorney and sometimes spokesman, trailed by another of his attorneys, not by any member of his family, who I believe he was worried about attending this hearing. He sat down. His face was wan. His eyes were puffy. He looked exhausted and defeated and beaten down. And you could hear a pin drop as he sat down. The committee will come to order. So Cummings out of the gate. I now recognize myself for five minutes to give an opening statement.

Addressed the issue of Michael Cohen's credibility. He admitted to lying about his actions to protect the president. Some will certainly ask if Mr. Cohen was lying then. lying about his actions to protect the president. Some will certainly ask if Mr. Cohen was lying then, why should we believe him now? This is a legitimate question. It was very clear that Republicans were going to go right at Cohen, accusing him of being a liar, somebody who has admitted to lying, including admitting to lying into Congress when he gave testimony before them in 2017. So Cummings was hoping to put that to bed at the

outset. This is an important factor we need to weigh, but we must weigh it and we must hear from him. And Maggie, I found it fascinating what Cummings did at the close of this opening statement. He delivers this message straight to Cohen. Martin Luther King, Mr. Cohen, said the words that I leave with you today before you testify. He said, faith is taking the first step even when you can't see the whole staircase. There comes a time when silence becomes betrayal.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that truly matter. In the end, he says, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends. And with that quote, he's trying to set up Michael Cohen's testimony, why he's being truthful, that what he said before is a lie and what he is saying now is the truth. And this was important for him to set this out as a way forward as the hearing began. Raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you are about to give is the whole truth and nothing but the truth? So help you God. Let the record show that the witness answered in the

affirmative, and thank you, and you may be seated. So then Michael Cohen begins his opening statement, and it was long. I hope my appearance here today, my guilty plea, and my work with law enforcement agencies are steps along a path of redemption that will restore faith in me and help this country understand our president better. And he began again by apologizing for lying to Congress. I am here under oath to correct the record, to answer the committee's questions truthfully and to offer the American people what I know about President Trump. And then he turned to Donald Trump. I am ashamed that I chose to take part in

concealing Mr. Trump's illicit acts rather than listening to my own conscience. I am ashamed because I know what Mr. Trump is. And he depicted Donald Trump as a unsavory, unethical, immoral character. Mr. Trump is a racist. The country has seen Mr. Trump court white supremacists and bigots. You have heard him called poorer countries, shitholes, in private. He is even worse. He once asked me if I could name a country

run by a black person that wasn't a shithole. This was when Barack Obama was president of the United States. And while we were once driving through a struggling neighborhood in Chicago, he commented that only black people could live that way. And he told me that black people would never vote for him because they were too stupid. Somebody who told him from the Oval Office, in an Oval Office meeting, that he would be sending him a reimbursement for hush money payments. Mr. Trump is a con man. He asked me to pay off an adult film star with whom he had an affair and to lie about it to his wife, which I did.

And lying to the First Lady is one of my biggest regrets. He portrayed Donald Trump as a cheat. And it should come as no surprise that one of my more common responsibilities was that Mr. Trump directed me to call business owners, many of whom are small businesses that were owed money for their services and told them that no payment or a reduced payment would be coming. When I told Mr. Trump of my success, he actually reveled in it. As a schemer who would inflate his net worth or devalue it,

depending on what was useful for him at various points. It was my experience that Mr. Trump inflated his total assets when it served his purposes, such as trying to be listed amongst the wealthiest people in Forbes and deflated his assets to reduce his real estate taxes. At one point, Michael Cohen told a very detailed story of Donald Trump's relationship to the Vietnam War. Remember that Donald Trump has said that he had a deferment from the draft because he had quote-unquote bone spurs.

But when I asked for medical records, he gave me none and said that there was no surgery. He told me not to answer the specific questions by reporters, but rather offer simply the fact that he received a medical deferment. He finished the conversation the following comment. You think I'm stupid? I'm not going to Vietnam. And at that moment, Michael Cohen looked directly into the camera. And I find it ironic, Mr. President, that you are in Vietnam right now. Right. It was damning stuff.

A lot of people have asked me about whether Mr. Trump knew about the release of the hacked documents the Democratic National Committee emailed ahead of time. And the answer is yes. In July of 2016, days before the Democratic Convention, I was in Mr. Trump's office when his secretary announced that Roger Stone was on the phone. Mr. Trump put Mr. Stone on the speaker phone. Mr. Stone told Mr. Trump that he had just gotten off the phone with Julian Assange and that Mr. Assange told Mr. Stone that within a couple of days, there would be a massive dump of emails that would damage Hillary Clinton's campaign. Mr. Trump responded by stating to the effect, wouldn't that be great?

And then he brings up, of course, the now infamous Moscow project. Right. I lied to Congress when Mr. Trump stopped negotiating the Moscow Tower project in Russia. I stated that we stopped negotiating in January of 2016. That was false. Our negotiations continued for months later during the campaign. He says that there were, you know, a handful of these conversations that went on into 2016 when it was clear that Donald Trump was going to be the Republican nominee. Mr. Trump did not directly tell me to lie to Congress.

That's not how he operates. In conversations we had during the campaign, at the same time, I was actively negotiating in Russia for him. He would look me in the eye and tell me there's no Russian business and then go on to lie to the American people by saying the same thing. In his way, he was telling me to lie. So to be clear, Mr. Trump knew of and directed the Trump-Moscow negotiations throughout the campaign and lied about it. Cohen's almost describing in this moment a code

where if Trump is saying to him, there's no Russia project, it's almost like saying, there's no Russia project, right? You're never going to say there's a Russia project. It's like he's trying to explain a foreign language in which Donald Trump is communicating to him, you should probably lie about this

without having to say it. That's exactly right. And he said that in his testimony, made very clear that this is how Donald Trump talks. He sort of knows where the line is and he doesn't speak overtly. It is what former federal prosecutors have described as mob speak, the style that mafia bosses speak in, to avoid crossing a legal line. And while Michael Cohen did not explicitly say that part, he did say that Donald Trump spoke in a code and that Michael Cohen understood that code. He doesn't give you questions. He doesn't give you orders. He speaks in a code. And I understand the code because I've been around him for a decade.

Maggie, did it come as a surprise to you to hear Michael Cohen saying any of this? You've known both of these men for years, and you've known them as a unit. What was it like to hear Cohen saying these things about Donald Trump? Even knowing that this was coming, it was mind-blowing hearing Michael Cohen saying this in public. No one who has worked for Trump in recent years has gone on the record to say things like this. And it was staggering. And it was so at odds with the portrait of fealty that Michael Cohen had presented with reporters, with everyone toward Donald Trump over a decade. And remember, Donald Trump creates an eagerness in people around him to get something of a head pat from him, to get an encouragement, to get an attaboy.

Cohen got very skilled at trying for that attaboy. And seemed to be kind of addicted to it. And seemed to be addicted to it, seemed to revel in it, clearly reveled in his proximity. Over the past year or so, I have done some real soul searching. I have done some real soul searching. And I see now that my ambition and the intoxication of Trump power had much to do with the bad decisions in part that I made. He was involved in taking care of messes that Donald Trump wanted taken care of. He was willing to do those things. One of them was payoffs to women. And the notion that somebody who was so closely involved in that would be willing to discuss it publicly, not just behind closed doors with investigators, not just as prosecutors were bearing down on him,

but freely in public, in a hearing, under oath, was just breathtaking. There's a moment where Cohen says to the members of the committee, The last time I appeared before Congress, I came to protect Mr. Trump. Today, I'm here to tell you I am here to tell the truth about Mr. Trump. As if to say, the spell has been broken. I'm out of that world now. And I kind of wonder if that's really possible,

but also how it happened. Well, I think it is really possible because I think their break has been so incredibly clean given what has happened to Michael Cohen. Remember when the FBI raided his hotel and apartment and office in April of 2018, he was still standing by Trump. That clearly has changed.

You saw Republicans argue that the reason that changed for Michael Cohen is because he was facing charges of his own. And the president has certainly suggested that. Cohen has been utterly stripped of everything that he valued, his business, his law license. He has been humiliated publicly. He has been abandoned by a lot of friends and by the president and by the president's circle. And so I do think that it is certainly a real split. I think that people are going to have to assess, looking at his testimony, whether they think

it's a real conversion, but it's definitely a real break. I am not a perfect man. I have done things I am not proud of, and I will live with the consequences of my actions for the rest of my life. But today, I get to decide the example that I set for my children and how I attempt to change how history will remember me. I may not be able to change the past, but I can do right by the American people here today. And I thank you for your attention and I'm happy to answer the committee's questions.

Thank you very much, Mr. Cohen. I now recognize myself. So then the questions begin from the committee members. Right. You said you bought some checks. Is that right? Yes, sir. And first we have Cummings asking Cohen to elaborate on the details of these reimbursement checks that he got, that he brought with him. So let me make sure I understand. Donald Trump wrote you a check out of his personal account while he was serving as president of the United States of America to reimburse you for

hush money payments to Ms. Clifford. Is that what you are telling the American people today? Yes, Mr. Chairman. And it was among the more dramatic moments that we saw, because Cummings is getting to the fact that the sitting president was part of this scheme that was at minimum sleazy and illicit, and at maximum could have some criminal exposure. And they were leaving nothing to doubt as to what Cohen was saying took place. Is there any doubt in your mind that President Trump knew exactly what he was paying for? There is no doubt in my mind, and I truly believe there is no doubt in the mind of the people of

the United States of America. With that, I'll yield to... Jim Jordan, another ally of the president, quoted something that Michael Cohen once said to a reporter from the Daily Beast. I will make sure that you and I meet one day while we're in the courthouse, and I will take you for every penny you still don't have. And this has now become a famous anecdote where he threatened a reporter who was pursuing a story about an old court claim from the divorce filing between Ivana Trump and Donald Trump, where she had alleged marital rape. And Cohen said, And I will come after your Daily Beast and everybody else that you possibly know. So I'm warning you. So I'm warning you, Tread, very effing lightly. It wasn't effing.

Because what I'm going to do to you is going to be effing disgusting. You understand me. And he was then asked by Jim Jordan, Mr. Cohen, who said that? Mr. Cohen, who said that mr cohen who said that i did and it's an incident that i think he would say that he really was doing for trump and not for himself but it was a way to sully his character and create a portrait of thuggishness and did you say that mr cohen was that statement that i just read that you admitted to saying did you do that to protect Donald Trump? I did it to protect Mr. Trump, Donald Trump Jr., Ivanka Trump, and Eric Trump.

But I wonder, who does it look worse for, the person who did it or the person on whose behalf it was done? Right. I understand that Jim Jordan is trying to muddy Michael Cohen with that, but I think for most people, they are going to look at that, and especially after the president takes to Twitter and suggests that people in focusing on sullying Cohen's character and reputation, they may be actually sullying President Trump's. Correct. They were essentially trying to peel Cohen off from Trump. And what became clear as their efforts went on throughout the hearing is that that is impossible to do

when you have had somebody serve as a lawyer for Donald Trump so identified with him publicly over 10 years. You can't take a shot at Cohen and not end up having it ricochet onto Trump, too. So we've established that you lie on your taxes, you lie to banks, and you have been convicted of lying to Congress. It seems to me that there's not much that you won't lie about when you stand to gain from it. And where do the questions go from here? So everything's been made of your lies in the past. I'm concerned about your lies today. After that, it became a, you know. But there's no truth with you whatsoever.

One by one down the line, Republicans suggesting that Michael Cohen was liar, liar, pants on fire. Really in it for the fame. Is your appearance here today motivated by your desire to remain in the spotlight for your personal benefit? No, ma'am. Or he was really in it for the money. They asked him. Is there a book deal coming or anything like that?

I have no book deal right now. One after the other about prospective book deals or movie deals. Isn't it true you tried to sell a book about your time with President Trump entitled Trump Revolution from the Tower to the White House, understanding Donald Jake Trump? Yes, that happened. Or had he pitched a book of his own? And what did he say? He said yes. I have been contacted by many, including for television, the movie. If you want to tell me who you would like to play you, I'm more than happy to write the name down.

And what about the Democrats? Mr. Raskin. Mr. Cohen, thank you for your composure today. Our colleagues are not upset because you lied to Congress for the president. They're upset because you stopped lying to Congress for the president. The Democrats tried to keep it really mostly on Trump for the president. They're upset because you stopped lying to Congress for the president.

The Democrats tried to keep it really mostly on Trump and the things that Michael Cohen did for Trump. And nothing at the Trump organization was ever done unless it was run through President Donald Trump, correct? That's 100% certain. Okay. He described, and it was really interesting, he described everybody as being solely devoted to protecting the brand and reputation of one man, Donald Trump. He said that nothing happened at the company unless Donald Trump was aware of it or signed off on it. He argued that Trump was a demanding and exacting and punishing boss. He described the entire effort as being about maximizing the gold-plated version of Donald Trump that we have all become very familiar with. There's a recurring refrain in your testimony that says, and yet I continued to work for him. But at some point you changed. What was the breaking point at which you decided to start telling the truth? There are several factors. Helsinki, Charlottesville.

He went on this litany of moments that he said disgusted him. There were the president's comments after Charlottesville, that it was various instances of discourteous behavior by the president of untoward behavior towards citizens. Watching the daily destruction of our civility to one another, putting up silly things like this, really unbecoming of Congress. He clearly got angry, and then he sort of turned it back on Republicans

and said to them, essentially, It's that sort of behavior that I'm responsible for. I'm responsible for your silliness because I did the same thing that you're doing now for 10 years. I protected Mr. Trump for 10 years. You are what I was. You are all blindly following him. And there is a real risk to doing that because you could end up like me someday. And I can only warn people, the more people that follow Mr. Trump, as I did blindly, are going to suffer the same consequences that I'm suffering. It was a gripping and captivating moment. Right. It was a sort of surprising level of self-awareness and I guess also self-loathing,

too. It was both. It was self-effacing. It was clearly uncomfortable. It was acknowledging that he is a deeply imperfect person who did imperfect things that he is not proud of. And he said a version of that earlier in the hearing. But it was really striking because this is a comment that Republicans who oppose Donald Trump,

and there are not very many of them who are that vocal anymore, but that they have said repeatedly that the Republican Party has become a cult of personality or just a cult. And the people just blindly follow along with what Donald Trump wants, whether it is wise or not, whether it is safe or not, and whether he is telling the truth or not. And that is what Cohen was getting at. What do you want your children to know? That I'm sorry for everything, and I'm sorry for the pain that I've caused them, and I wish I can go back in time. Thank you. I yield back.

Maggie, I wonder if you feel like you understand what's motivating Michael Cohen throughout this hours-long hearing to say what he's saying, to concede what he's conceding, to kind of humble himself the way he did. He's been convicted of a crime. He's headed to prison. He has been disbarred. What exactly is animating him at this point? I think a number of things are animating him, but I think among them is that he doesn't want to be

the leper of this story forever. He said months ago that he does not want to be the villain in the Trump story, and I think that's how he feels. I think that he does not want to be remembered as this footnote in history. I think he's going to prison, and I think he doesn't have a whole lot left to lose,

and I think that he would like to try to make people remember other things about him and tell a more nuanced tale. And so what did this hearing, in your mind, achieve? How will this hearing be remembered in this larger story? taking historical moment, the likes of which I don't know if we'll ever see again, but it was pretty striking to see. Or it is going to be the initial phases of a much broader, deeper governmental investigation by House Democrats into the Trump presidency, not just his own personal activities, but the activities of his government. And allowing Michael Cohen to have a setting where he talks about these things and where he can be questioned and where he is a key starting witness could be the first step in paving the way toward an impeachment process if that is where Democrats go. If that ends up leading to something bigger, then Democrats will

feel as if this was a key foundation for it. But it's too early to say, I think. I have some closing remarks I would like to say myself. Is this an appropriate time? You can do it now. Thank you. Maggie, how does this hearing finally come to an end? Seven and a half hours after Michael Cohen first entered this room, sitting pretty patiently through all of these questions, not losing his temper, he was given an opportunity to

speak not just to the committee members, but to the president. In closing, I'd like to say directly to the president, we honor our veterans even in the rain. You tell the truth even when it doesn't aggrandize you. And he used that opportunity to send a message to his former boss saying, you don't need to be this person.

You take responsibility for your own dirty deeds. You don't use your power of your bully pulpit to destroy the credibility of those who speak out against you. You don't separate families from one another or demonize those looking to America for a better life. or demonize those looking to America for a better life. You don't vilify people based on the God they pray to, and you don't cuddle up to our adversaries at the expense of our allies. And what he was saying to the president, you and I both know who you are,

and he was saying to the members of the committee, you should believe me when I say that I understand this man. So to those who support the president and his rhetoric, as I once did, I pray the country doesn't make the same mistakes that I have made or pay the heavy price that my family and I are paying. And I thank you very much for this additional time, Chairman. Thank you very much. And when Michael Cohen was done,

Elijah Cummings closed with this note of grace toward Michael Cohen. So you wonder whether people believe you. I don't know. I don't know whether they believe you. But the fact is that you come, you have your head down, and this has got to be one of the hardest things that you could do. That was the moment when Michael Cohen started crying.

And he really hadn't done that. He was clearly weeping. I know that you face a lot. I know that you are worried about your family, but this is a part of your destiny. And Cummings basically told Cohen, you are doing what you should be doing. You are heading toward the light in this

moment. And hopefully this portion of your destiny will lead to a better, a better, a better Michael Cohen, a better Donald Trump, a better United States of America, and a better world. Maggie, thank you very, very much. We appreciate it. Michael, thanks for having me. And we have got to get back to normal. With that, this meeting is adjourned. We'll be right back.

Here's what else you need to know today. On Wednesday, Pakistan said it had shot down two Indian fighter jets and captured a pilot from one of them in the latest escalation of hostilities between the two countries. The attack is heightening fears that the decades-old animosities between India and Pakistan could spiral into war. The latest episode began on February 14th, when jihadis operating out of Pakistan killed 40 Indian soldiers, prompting airstrikes from India and now a military response from Pakistan. In a speech on Wednesday, the Prime Minister of Pakistan urged restraint,

citing the two countries' arsenals of nuclear weapons, saying, quote, all big wars have been due to miscalculation. My question to India is that given the weapons we have, can we afford miscalculation? And in North Carolina on Wednesday, a campaign operative at the Center of Allegations of Election Fraud, McCray Dallas, was arrested and indicted over his handling of absentee ballots in 2016 and 2018. Dallas, who collected absentee ballots for Republican congressional candidate Mark Harris last fall, was charged with obstruction of justice and possession of absentee ballots. As a result of Dallas' conduct, North Carolina will hold a new election for the 9th Congressional District.

Harris, who hired Dallas, has withdrawn from that race. That's it for The Daily. I'm Michael Barbaro. See you tomorrow.