The Daily - The Trial of Ghislaine Maxwell

Episode Date: December 6, 2021

This episode contains descriptions of self-harm and alleged sexual abuse.When Jeffrey Epstein died by suicide in a federal jail, dozens of his alleged victims lost their chance to bring him to justice.But the trial of his associate, Ghislaine Maxwell, on charges that she recruited, groomed and ultimately helped Mr. Epstein abuse young girls, may offer an opportunity to obtain a degree of reckoning.We look into how Mr. Epstein was allowed to die, and ask whether justice is still possible for his accusers.Guest: Benjamin Weiser, a reporter covering the Manhattan federal courts for The New York Times.Sign up here to get The Daily in your inbox each morning. And for an exclusive look at how the biggest stories on our show come together, subscribe to our newsletter. Background reading: Testimony at Ms. Maxwell’s sex-trafficking trial revealed a key question in the case: Were Ms. Maxwell and Mr. Epstein partners, or partners in crime?During the second day of the trial, a woman accused Ms. Maxwell of befriending her when she was a 14-year-old girl, only to join in the sexual abuse that followedFor more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday. 

From The New York Times, I'm Sabrina Tavernisi. This is The Daily. Jeffrey Epstein was found unresponsive in his Manhattan jail cell early this morning. When Jeffrey Epstein died by suicide in a federal jail. It was first shock and then there was lots of anger. Epstein died before many of his victims could face him in court. Dozens of his alleged victims lost their chance for justice. Ghislaine Maxwell was transferred to New York City to face charges for her alleged role in

the sex crime. Maxwell was the confidant of a convicted sex offender, Jeffrey Epstein. Now, a trial underway of his associate, Ghislaine Maxwell, may offer a new chance. Epstein's victims have long said that Maxwell helped orchestrate Epstein's procurement of underage girls. Today, my colleague Ben Weiser, on a Times investigation into how Epstein was allowed to die and on what kind of justice is possible without him. It's Monday, December 6th.

Ben, before we get into your reporting about the final days of Jeffrey Epstein's life, I think there are probably people out there who are wondering, what's the point of going back and reliving that? I mean, this is a man who was accused of sex trafficking, supposedly some pretty horrible crimes, and now he's dead. So why go back and investigate how he died? Right. I mean, one could say he's dead. There's no more need for a trial. You know, the danger is gone. But his death really raised serious questions that went beyond just him. You know, it's remarkable that he died in federal custody. This is not supposed to happen. And the question was very simple. How did the government let what was finally ruled a suicide happen on their watch?

If the justice system is going to arrest somebody, prosecute them, bring them to justice, that should happen. They shouldn't be allowed to escape, whether it's physically escape or through perhaps taking their own life. And, you know, there were dozens of women at the time, young girls, who had been Epstein's alleged victims, and frankly, who saw his death as an escape from justice. You know, he never had the trial that they wanted him to have, his day in court and their day in court. So it seemed really worth trying to figure out how this death could occur in this institution. So where did you begin?

So my colleagues at the Times, Danielle Ivory, Steve Eder, and Matt Goldstein, filed a Freedom of Information Act request with the Bureau of Prisons seeking the internal records of Epstein's 36 days of detention at that jail before his death. And we were repeatedly, categorically turned down. And so the New York Times legal department came in and filed a federal lawsuit against the Bureau of Prisons demanding the records under the Freedom of Information laws. And it wasn't until this year that we actually got the materials, more than 2,000 pages of internal records from the Bureau of Prisons. And what do you learn about these few weeks Epstein spends in custody?

You know, the documents begin with his detention on July 6th, 2019. And from the start, the jail wasn't paying attention. You know, an intake screening form erroneously describes him as a black male, which of course he was not, he was white. And it indicated that he had no record of sex offense convictions, even though he was a registered sex offender and had two convictions from 2008 in Florida.

He was originally placed in the jail's general population, which is the least restrictive area for prisoners. And it was only after one of the higher-up officials realized this that they changed his location. And one of the memos told us, apparently, the marshal service did not indicate that he was a high-profile inmate, and the staff were unaware that he was coming, so no plans had been established. That seems to suggest that there were people at the jail who had never heard of Jeffrey Epstein. They didn't know who he was.

The world knew who Jeffrey Epstein was, but not his jailers. On Sunday, the records showed, the day after he arrived, he was finally moved into a special area called the Special Housing Unit. And again, the memos showed that this was for concerns for his personal safety in the general population. But it wasn't until the next day, Monday, that he was taken for even an initial psychological evaluation. And it wasn't until another day passed that he actually had a full in-person assessment for suicidal risk. And what does that psychological evaluation say? Sabrina, in his first few weeks in jail, he was evaluated by psychologists for suicidal risk. And their own notes show that he, you know, quote, adamantly denied any suicidal ideation, intention, or plan. He said, being alive is fun. And at one point,

the psychologist writes, quote, he was smirking and said, why would you ever think I would be suicidal? I am not suicidal, and I would never be, end quote. And so does the psychologist recommend any action? The psychologist decided that suicide watch was not warranted, but that out of an abundance of caution, Epstein should remain on psychological observation, a term they use for not quite as restrictive as a suicide watch, but always being monitored around the clock. And he was. The jail also had a special group of specially trained inmates who were assigned to watch Epstein while he was on psychological observation. And they were to

watch him every 15 minutes and chronicle what he was doing and what he said. They would be looking through a little window in his cell door. Many of those notes were so evocative and mundane. You know, Epstein is drinking water at the sink, one of them wrote, and Epstein is sitting on the edge of the bed with his head in the palm of his hands. So where did things start to turn? I think the significant moment came on July 18th when Epstein ultimately had a ruling on bail. He had been optimistic about bail, that the court would allow him to be released pending his trial. But on July 18th, the judge, Richard Berman, denied that request categorically and said that Epstein might injure other people, might abuse other minors if released, that he simply refused to do it. And the denial of bail was cited as a significant disappointment,

that's their words, by jail officials in a memo after the fact, saying that that denial probably challenged Epstein's ability and willingness to adapt to incarceration. probably challenged Epstein's ability and willingness to adapt to incarceration. And given the potential impact of the judge's decision, a psychologist should have assessed Epstein's mental status upon his return to the institution from court. That, of course, was not done. Five days later, Epstein tried to kill himself when he was back in the jail. Epstein was put on suicide watch after that attempt for roughly 31 hours and again placed on psychological observation. And again, inmates were charged with watching him chronicling his every action. And he was given a cellmate and he thus had someone with him in the cell at all times. But on Friday,

the day before he committed suicide, while Epstein was meeting with his attorneys during the day, his cellmate was removed from the jail for unrelated reasons to Epstein. And the records we found did tell us something new, which was that there were written communications and oral communications within the jail telling the staff of this particular unit that Epstein needed a cellmate by the time he got back that evening. One of the documents we looked at said the need for a cellmate was communicated between day watch and evening watch shifts in the special housing unit, but no cellmate was placed with him. Adding to the intensity of this moment was that that Friday, while Epstein was meeting with his attorneys, that morning, a federal appeals court in Manhattan released another trove of documents,

2,000 documents from a sealed civil lawsuit, which just offered new allegations about Epstein, new materials, very damaging graphic information about his alleged sex trafficking ring, depositions, police reports. And this is something his lawyers undoubtedly told him about. I remember because we at the New York Times saw those documents and worked all day writing a story about them, which appeared the next day. And the jail itself, in its memorandum, its post-mortem, concluded that that information that became public may have at least contributed to Epstein's mental state. And it happened that that night, he was left alone in an incredibly fragile state. The two guards assigned to his unit were not also paying attention, according to federal prosecutors who later charged them. One was surfing the Internet shopping.

The other was looking for sports news. Both appeared to be napping for a few hours. And they falsified documents to suggest that they had been looking in on Epstein, according to the prosecutor's office. And the next morning at 6.30, Epstein was found with a bed sheet tied around his neck like a noose. He was pronounced dead. The New York City medical examiner found that it was death by hanging. Wow. Wow. So what you found in these documents is a series of failures by the Bureau of Prisons. I mean, from small clerical errors to significant negligence. And those ultimately lead to the situation where once he decides to take his own life, there's no one watching him. There's no one there to stop him.

I think that's exactly right. So has the Bureau of Prisons acknowledged any role in this? I mean, the fact that they should have stopped him and didn't? The Bureau of Prisons, through the attorney general at the time, William Barr, this was the Trump administration when this happened, said right after the suicide that there had been serious irregularities in the jail that demanded an investigation. And a few months later, he said there had been a perfect storm of screw-ups. In some ways, I think that minimized what happened. You know, the document showed us a lot more serious things than just screw-ups. And I think the Bureau of Prisons, other than those two answers, have never really said what happened. And I will say that the Justice Department's Inspector

General Office has been doing an investigation into the death of Epstein in jail, and they have not released a report more than two years after his death. Did you find anything that would refute or, on the contrary, bolster the skepticism of people who have a hard time believing that there wasn't something nefarious going on here? I'm talking about the alternative theories about Epstein's death. You know, Sabrina, there was an explosion of conspiracy theories after Epstein's death, some suggesting it was not a suicide,

that Epstein had been murdered, others suggesting that perhaps with his wealth, Epstein had been able to pay somebody to orchestrate his death. The records offer no support to that. And we saw nothing in the records to refute the official finding of the medical examiner that Epstein killed himself. There's nothing in these records that would undermine that conclusion. Ultimately, Ben, what I'm hearing is the story of a man who for years was really able to elude justice, right? Who it looked like would finally be facing justice. I mean, he was in jail. He was going to have a trial. But what we see through these documents is that the system failed to keep him alive. And once again, he was in control. is that even with Epstein dead, there's a riveting trial going on right now in the federal court in Manhattan of his longtime associate and former companion, Ghislaine Maxwell.

She has been charged with assisting Epstein in the recruiting, enticement, and grooming of young girls and ultimately helping him abuse them. And I think in the view of many people, although Epstein is dead and he's not present, in some ways, a trial of Jeffrey Epstein is just beginning. We'll be right back. Ben, you said that in some ways there is a sort of trial of Jeffrey Epstein that is just beginning. And that's the trial of Ghislaine Maxwell. So let's talk about that trial. Remind us, what do we know about Ghislaine Maxwell and her relationship to Jeffrey Epstein? Sabrina, Maxwell was a longtime associate of Epstein.

They were romantically involved for a while. Maxwell has been called Epstein's lady of the house and his business partner. And is his best friend, according to Epstein, in this Fantasy Fair profile. She is the daughter of a British media mogul. For decades, Maxwell, a British socialite, didn't run from the spotlight. She sought it. And she herself was a longtime fixture on the New York social scene, largely, I think, because of her connections with Epstein. She is frequently photographed alongside Epstein, the Trumps, Prince Andrew.

She was also a guest at Chelsea Clinton's wedding. And even after she was no longer his girlfriend, she was managing his properties, his homes, his social relationships. Breaking news this hour, Ghislaine Maxwell, the longtime friend and confidant of accused sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein, arrested this morning by the FBI. And the government says in this case that she was also recruiting girls for him. in this case, that she was also recruiting girls for him. Maxwell enticed minor girls, got them to trust her, then delivered them into the trap that she and Epstein had set for them.

She faces six charges. They include sex trafficking, conspiracy, and a couple other counts that relate to enticing and transporting minors with the intent to engage in illegal sex acts. If she's convicted of all these counts, she could face up to 70 years in prison. And at the age of 59, that would seemingly be a life sentence. And what do we know about the accusers in the Maxwell case? The indictment against Maxwell cites four women, adults today, minors when they were allegedly abused by Maxwell and Epstein, who are really

at the center of this case. The government has said all four will testify in court. We expect all to use either pseudonyms or partial names, really for their own privacy and security. And the crimes that Maxwell is accused of occurred over a decade, from 1994 to 2004, according to the indictment. So they're some years ago. Got it. So when the trial began last Monday, after two years of anticipation, what was it like at the courthouse? You know, it's interesting. On the opening day of the trial on Monday, there is such a crowd of people who have wanted to see the Maxwell trial. Long lines form in the morning, you know, before dawn outside the courthouse.

And the court has opened up additional courtrooms with large video screens to make sure that not only the public and members of the press can watch the proceedings, but also so that Maxwell's accusers can watch. And these video screens are for internal court use only. It's closed circuit. This is not like the recent trials that we're familiar with of Kyle Rittenhouse and the three men who killed Ahmaud Arbery, which it felt like the whole country was watching on television. Those were in state court where television and still cameras are allowed. In the federal courts, indeed, in the court that Maxwell's being tried in, cameras are barred. Got it. You've said that this case from the outside is almost as much about Jeffrey Epstein as it is about Ghislaine Maxwell. How much is Jeffrey Epstein, even in

death, present here? It's a fascinating question. You know, Epstein truly, in this case, continues to loom over this trial and has done so ever since Maxwell was arrested. When she first sought to be released on bail, one of the key lines that I remember in her lawyer's application to the judge was, Ghislaine Maxwell is not Jeffrey Epstein. Distinguish the two. That's been their position all the way. But it hasn't been easy for the defense. And I've seen that tension even just in the first couple days of the trial. Huh. In what way? The government made it very clear right from the beginning that Epstein and Maxwell, as the prosecutor put it, were partners in crime. That Maxwell essentially recruited

and then served these girls up to Epstein over a decade for him to abuse. The prosecutor told the jury that Maxwell and Epstein, you know, made young girls believe their dreams could come true and they made them feel special. But the prosecutor said that was all a cover for what turned out to be heinous crimes that both Maxwell and Epstein conspired in. And what's the government saying about why Maxwell would have done this? Yeah, it's always been a question, I think. And the government in the opening argument finally offered, I think, for the first time, a rationale for why it believes Maxwell did this. for why it believes Maxwell did this. And they said that it was money, that while this horrific abuse was going on behind closed doors, the prosecutors told the jury, the defendant was jet-setting in private planes and living a life of extraordinary luxury. And the prosecutor said, these girls were just a means to support her lifestyle. Basically, she was an employee of Epstein. She was being paid a lot, and she had a lot of benefits.

And she didn't want to lose them. And the prosecutors are suggesting that that was a key reason that she wanted to keep this pipeline going to Epstein. So what is the defense saying when they give their opening argument? What's their theory of the case? The defense is pushing back as hard as they can on the government's assertions and trying to distinguish their client, Maxwell, from Epstein and his conduct. In the opening argument, the lawyer for Maxwell, you know, in essence said that her client was a scapegoat and made a statement to the jury, which I'm just going to read. She said, ever since Eve

was tempting Adam with the apple, women have been blamed for the bad behavior of men. And the lawyer said that Epstein's death had left a gaping hole in the pursuit of justice for many people. And she's obviously referring to the accusers. And the lawyer said, you know, Ms. Maxwell is filling that gaping hole, filling that empty chair. Wow, that's quite an opening statement. You know, it strikes me that this defense by Maxwell, you know, that Maxwell is being unfairly targeted, that blame is being heaped on her because Epstein isn't there to take it, is only possible because the state failed to keep Epstein alive. Yeah. You know, and the defense also made it very clear that Maxwell's lawyers will

attack the government's witnesses, the four women who are going to be testifying. Maxwell's defense lawyer told the jury in an opening statement on Monday that the victim's stories, their accounts were years old. You know, she said that memory is fallible and can be manipulated. And she even suggested that money was at the root of some of what the victims were saying. She said, for example, that the women had been manipulated by lawyers who were seeking big paydays to capitalize on Epstein's case. were seeking big paydays to capitalize on Epstein's case. And the defense made it clear they were going to cite the fact that a number of the accusers who were going to be testifying in the case had received payouts, compensation from a victim's fund that had been created,

and that there was a real motivation for these women and these lawyers to come forward against Maxwell. So that brings us, Ben, to the testimony that began last week of the accusers in the trial. Tell me about that. Right. So the very first of the four women who have been described as victims in the indictment took the witness stand on Tuesday. She, like the others, has been referred to only through pseudonyms or partial names. This woman was described only as Jane, and she did describe herself as a working actress, that she has been

an actor in Hollywood for more than two decades. She testified that when she was 14 years old in 1994, she was sitting around a picnic table at a summer arts camp in Michigan with friends eating ice cream when, as she put it, a tall, thin woman with a cute little Yorkie walked by. And soon her friends left, but Jane found herself alone with the woman and a man joined them. And the woman was Ghislaine Maxwell and the man was Jeffrey Epstein. So Epstein told Jane that he was, you know, a benefactor who gave money to the camp and liked to support young talent. And when Jane said that she lived in Palm Beach, Florida, Epstein said, as Jane recounted it in court, what a coincidence. We live there, too, and asked for her phone number. And when Jane returned home after camp had ended,

Epstein's office had called her mother and invited them to tea. And they went. And that began, you know, years of visits by Jane to Epstein's compound in Palm Beach. Epstein would send his chauffeur by to pick her up, not with her mother. And as Jane testified, that began years of abuse by Epstein and Maxwell. She described how, you know,

initially Maxwell came off to her almost like a big sister figure. Maxwell took her to the movies to go shopping. She bought her a cashmere sweater and shirts and to Victoria's Secret for underwear. But soon Maxwell began talking to her about sex. And this was all the government has said part of a process called grooming to normalize sex and ultimately sexual abuse and to make it seem acceptable and lower the potential victim's defenses. And Jane testified how at the age of 14 years old, she was talking with Epstein in his office. He was saying that he could introduce her to talent agents and that he knew everybody and could make things happen for her. And then he abruptly ended

the conversation, she said, and said, follow me and took her to a pool house. And there, she said, Epstein led her to a couch and took off his sweatpants. He pulled her on top of him and proceeded to masturbate, she said. And she was halting as she spoke about this. And when he was done, he acted like nothing had happened. And she said, I was frozen in fear. And she also said that she told no one about this. frozen in fear. And she also said that she told no one about this. I was terrified and felt ashamed, she said. And shortly after that incident, in later visits, she said, Ms. Maxwell joined them. And while they began to touch each other, they guided her to join them. And they would bring her into the house's massage room, where Maxwell would explain how Epstein liked to be massaged. And one of the prosecutors, Alison Moe, asked Jane, what was Maxwell's demeanor through all these different incidents?

And Jane said, I would say it seemed very casual, like it was very normal, like it was not a big deal. Like it was not a big deal. And, you know, the government kept reminding through the questions that Jane was 14 years old, a child, when this was going on. And when they asked her why she didn't tell anybody, Jane said, you know, I work in the entertainment industry and victim shaming is still very present to this day. She said, I just wanted to get this past me. Talking publicly could also hurt her career, she said. I didn't want any part of it. I just wanted it to go away. And she really kept it secret for two decades. And Ben, how did her testimony resonate in the courtroom?

It was silent as she was talking. You could hear a pin drop. The testimony was hours and hours over more than a day. And she maintained her composure through most of it. And, you know, as we covered the trials first week, my colleague Rebecca Davis O'Brien and I really wanted to see how the defense would try to undermine the government's case. And it's interesting because the defense made a big deal about the fact that Jane was an actress. The defense lawyer for Ms. Maxwell, and I'm reading from the quote, said, you will learn today, she told the jury, that Jane is a very successful actress in a soap opera, and she's been in movies and reality shows,

and that she's a pro at playing roles. And as her scripts and characters change, so has her story that you will hear in this courtroom. And indeed, on cross-examination, the defense lawyer for Ms. Maxwell tried to show those kinds of inconsistencies. She, for example, found in some old FBI interview notes that had been done of Jane in 2019 after Epstein's death that Jane had told the government that Maxwell had walked by with that cute little Yorkie and that Epstein had walked over first to meet her, which was the opposite of what Jane had testified to just a day before. And Jane said, well, I wouldn't have said that. And then the lawyer said, well, did the FBI make a mistake in note-taking? And Jane said, well, maybe they typed it up wrong. And when the lawyer then confronted her with a few other inconsistencies on cross-examination between things she had testified to and things she had earlier told the FBI, Jane said, well, memory is not linear.

And, you know, just that exchange really highlights one of the strategies that I think we're seeing the defense take in this trial, which is to try to highlight the inconsistencies, whatever they can find in testimony to show that memories can fade. And as we know, in this case, the allegations are of abuse that occurred in the 1990s in many cases. You know, that's more than 20 years ago. The defense also is clearly trying to just separate Ms. Maxwell from Epstein's conduct and make the point that he was secretive and he kept his abuse of minors from her. The prosecutor had opened the trial by saying Epstein and Maxwell were partners in crime.

And I think our sense is the defense is really trying to show they were just partners, you know, once romantically involved, and later she managed his properties, but had nothing to do with his crimes. So, Ben, we started this conversation by talking about Jeffrey Epstein, who died in custody and never had to face his accusers in court. So I guess what I'm wondering is, what does this trial ultimately mean for them? the accusers said in a courtroom shortly after Epstein died, and this woman stood up in a courtroom in which some of the top federal prosecutors were observing, and essentially addressing them said, finish what you have started. And it was less than a year later that they brought the charges against Maxwell. And that seemed, at least from their

perspective, the natural continuation from what had been the Jeffrey Epstein case. Finish what you started. That's right. Of course, as far as Maxwell's concerned, there's nothing to finish. You know, she pleaded not guilty. She perhaps may take the witness stand and make a personal appeal to the jury, although we're not sure that will happen. You know, but from her perspective, this probably should have been over when Epstein was found dead in his jail cell. But ultimately, it will be up to the jury to render a verdict.

Ben, thank you. Thank you, Sabrina. Thank you. We'll be right back. Here's what else you need to know today. The Omicron variant of the coronavirus has been reported in at least 17 states. Many of the cases appeared to be in people who had traveled to South Africa recently. However, some cases appeared to be the result of the virus

spreading within the United States, including a person in Hawaii who had not traveled outside his state. None of the Omicron cases reported so far in the United States have resulted in serious illness, hospitalization, or death.

And Bob Dole, who served a quarter century in the U.S. Senate, ran for president three times, and embodied the bipartisanship of a bygone era in American politics, died on Sunday after a battle with lung cancer. He was 98. after a battle with lung cancer. He was 98. Dole, a Republican from Kansas, served in World War II and started in the Senate in 1969. He led his party there for more than a decade,

until 1996, when he became the last of the World War II generation to win the Republican nomination for president. President Biden called Dole, quote, an American statesman like few in our history, a war hero, and among the greatest of the greatest generation. Today's episode was produced by Michael Simon Johnson, Rochelle Bonja, Rachel Quester, Stella Tan, and Lindsay Garrison. It was edited by M.J. Davis-Lynn and Larissa Anderson Thank you. That's it for The Daily.

I'm Sabrina Tavernisi. See you tomorrow.