The Daily - The U.A.E. Got A.I. Chips. Trump’s Inner Circle Got Crypto Riches.

Episode Date: September 24, 2025

President Trump and his inner circle are making millions of dollars from agreements that intersect with America’s national security interests, a New York Times investigation found.Eric Lipton, who wrote the article, explains why these conflicts of interest are unlike anything we’ve seen before.Guest: Eric Lipton, an investigative reporter for The New York Times.Background reading: Read the full investigation here, or see five takeaways.For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday. Photo: Doug Mills/The New York Times Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

From the New York Times, I'm Rachel Abrams, and this is The Daily. A New York Times investigation into a series of major deals between the Trump administration, the United Arab Emirates, and the Trump family, has revealed that the president and his inner circle are making millions of dollars from agreements that intersect with America's national security interests. Today, my colleague Eric Lipton, explains why these conflicts of interests are unlike anything we've seen before. It's Wednesday, September 24th. Eric, welcome to the show.

Hello, Rachel. Eric, I feel like every time we've talked on the show, we've had you on to talk about some kind of conflict of interest that has to do with either the Trump family or the Trump administration. And you explain each time that what we are discussing is more, more significant or problematic than the last time we had you on the show or than another administration. And here we are. I think it's been about four months since we had you on last time. And I think that once again, this is what you're going to tell me. Am I right?

That's right. We're not talking about martinis at the Trump Hotel in D.C. are staying a couple of nights at the Trump Derell are people gathering at Mar-a-Lago. These were things that were considered scandals during the first Trump. by his critics. Right. This is an entirely different scale. What we're seeing here in these series of transactions is at a scale, unlike anything I think I've seen as a reporter in actually four decades of doing my job. Wow. In terms of the national security implications and just the scale of dollars in play that are potentially enriching the president's family and the family of some of his advisors. So, okay, I want to dig into specifically what we're talking about here. You

mentioned a series of transactions. So tell us about the transactions. I mean, one of the deals directly financially benefits the president, his family, and some of his advisors. The second deal directly benefits the United Arab Emirates and its ambitions to become an AI superpower. So back in May, we have the first deal, which involves $2 billion of money from the United Arab Emirates going into a cryptocurrency company. that was created by the Trump family and one of his advisors, Steve Whitkoff. That happens in early May. Several weeks later, there's a separate transaction where the United States agrees to give the UAE

access to some of the most advanced artificial intelligence chips that are designed in the United States. These are the crown jewels of American technology, and it agrees to allow them to have hundreds of thousands of these chips exported to the United Arab Emirates. So these two deals happen. You know, my colleagues and I are watching this, and we're like, wow, wait a minute, what just happened here? How did these two deals come about? And so we launched on an investigation that involved a team of reporters, including from San Francisco, from New York, Washington, Taiwan, and London. I just want to make sure I understand why this would catch your eye at that.

in the first place. You were obviously an investigative reporter. Did you see these two deals and think, I wonder if there's a connection because the UAE transfers $2 billion to the Trump Whitkoff family crypto business. And then the Trump administration turns around and hands over to the UAE hundreds of thousands of these super important chips. Like, is that what initially peaked your interest? That's right. Okay, so what did you find? Were the deals related and how did they come about? So as our team of reporters worked on this, what we found was there were more linkages between these two deals than were publicly known, or that had been disclosed by the White House or the United Arab Emirates. For example, there's this one guy who's at the center of

both of these transactions, and he goes by the name of Sheikh Tukh Noon. He's the national security chief of the United Arab Emirates. And he's this kind of somewhat mysterious figure who's constantly seen wearing sunglasses because he has an eye condition. So even when he's inside, he's got these shades on, and it gives him a kind of an air of intrigue. And he's been an intermediary for presidents and foreign advisors for many years. But starting around 2023, he began to transition to becoming one of the leaders in deploying the UAE's massive bank of oil money

to make strategic decisions about how to transform the United Arab Emirates, this super rich oil country into becoming a place that could raise money from some other economic sector. And they concluded that the best place to go to make more money was to become a technology beacon in the world. Like a Silicon Valley of the Middle East. Right. They want to build one of the largest AI data centers outside of the United States. But in order to transform their economy, Tukh Noon needed something from the United States. And that was access to these AI chips made by companies like NVIDIA. And he went to the Biden administration and he basically said, give us your chips. And initially they were quite skeptical of that because

they were concerned about, you know, what's he going to do with those chips? Like for security reasons or what was the concern exactly? Their primary concern was that the United Arab Emirates has had long time close ties with China. And not only that, but they even have done joint military exercises from China. They also have a defense contracting firm that is building military equipment jointly with China. And at the time that they first came to the Biden administration, they had put a bunch of Chinese equipment into some of their data centers. And this is the equipment that the United States is concerned potentially could be compromised and used by China to gain access to American technology. So the Biden administration is concerned that if we allow the United Arab Emirates,

have these crown jewels, some of the most important technological inventions of modern times, are they potentially going to be sharing that technology with China in a way that could hurt the United States and national security? That was a concern that the Biden administration had in particular. I heard the U.S. how exactly? Like what specifically are they worried would happen? I mean, the United States is now in a race with China over the progress in artificial intelligence. And it's not only an economic race, it's a military race, because AI is already being applied to all kinds of weapon systems, and particularly around drones that could be autonomously operated and armed and become autonomous killing machines. And if China gets access to the most advanced

chips that the United States is designing, they could accelerate their efforts to build a killer drone fleet that could threaten the United States. So the stakes are obviously quite high. The Biden administration has all of these concerns about what a deal for chips to the UAE could mean for American national security. What happens after that? I mean, the Biden administration ultimately reaches an agreement in which they talk to shake talk noon. And they said, you know, you're going to have to remove some of this Chinese technology from your data centers. And we will then agree to give you access to some of these chips. But talk noon is not satisfied. Because he had seen Biden is taking this very hard line, it sounds like.

They were quite frustrated that the Biden people were being too conservative. They were too nervous. they were nervous Nellys, that they were holding back the ambitions of the United Arab Emirates. And that was where things ended. And then Biden leaves office. But Tuck Noon wants more chips. He wants more powerful chips. And that's when Trump comes in.

And Tuck Noon, very smart guy. He sees an opportunity here to get what he couldn't get during the Biden era. And what do you mean by that? Like what specifically does he see as an opportunity? Well, Trump, the dealmaker that he is, puts in some senior advisors who are deal managers themselves. He puts in Steve Whitkoff, a real estate buddy of his from New York City, and suddenly Whitkoff is the Middle East envoy. And then he separately puts in as his AI advisor in the White House, David Sachs, a venture capitalist from Silicon Valley,

who comes from the world that thinks that the United States is best if it exports as many ships as possible around the world. And both of these guys become critical players in Tochnun's strategy to get what he wants. And so the new administration is starting, and Tochnun gets to work. We'll be right back. So, Eric, tell us about how Taknoon actually gets to work. What does he do first? Talk noon first makes a visit to the United States in March, in which he comes here and he's treated like he is a major global player. He has private meetings with the head of the CIA, with the Treasury Secretary and the Commerce Secretary, with CEOs, Jeff Bezos.

He gets an audience with some very important people, it sounds like. I mean, he was starting to get that kind of access during Biden, but this visit in March was unlike. like anything he'd had before. I mean, it's just an incredible lineup of people from both the government, from the private sector, from the financial world. It shows you that this guy not only has one of the world's biggest piggy banks, but he is a transformative figure in the global economy and in technology. And he actually then also goes over to the White House for a special dinner that includes much of the president's cabinet and President Trump and the vice president. And Steve Whitkoff and David Sachs are all there, and they talk about the interest of the United Arab Emirates

and becoming a global leader in AI. These are initial kind of meet and greet conversations, but in the background, there's a whole other thing going on. The one thing that the United Arab Emirates has is a boatload of money. They want access the chips. They've got trillions of dollars in the bank. World Liberty, a cryptocurrency company, created by Donald Trump, Steve Whitkoff, and their families, needs money to get going. And this is a moment that UAE can write a check for $2 billion and hand it over to World Liberty just at the same moment that they're seeking access to the chips. These two things basically simultaneously are in play. Well, I mean, basically sounds like the UAE is essentially dangling a $2 billion transfer into the Trump-Witkoff family business.

at the same time that they're asking the administration for this technology. That's right. And to be clear, it's the sons of both Trump and Whitkoff, who are overseeing World Liberty and its dealings. And they're the ones that are negotiating for the $2 billion transfer into World Liberty. But regardless, they're doing these negotiations at the same time as their fathers are having a sit-down dinner with Sheikh Tocoon, talking about the UAE's plans to become a global AI superpower with the health. help of Trump. So what happens next with these negotiations?

Well, it's, you know, in March and early April, there's a clash that's playing out behind the scenes in the White House. There's these two different groups. There's David Sachs who comes in from Silicon Valley. It's like unlimited export of these chips. Let's sell as much as possible. And then there's a separate group of people that have come in in this new Trump administration that are effectively China Hawks.

They're really skeptical of China. They're very concerned about the military buildup in China, and they are separately working behind the scenes to build out a policy that would actually further restrict access by foreign entities to the most advanced chips. They call it the America First AI plan that would limit the sale or export

of the most advanced chips for a year after they come onto the marketplace, which is not what Tuckin wanted. So it sounds like there are at least some officials in the Trump administration who have the same or at least similar concerns about where these chips are going to end up and what they're going to be used for that the Biden administration did, right? Like, in other words, giving the UAE these chips could also mean that they end up in China and therefore the same national security risks are associated with it.

That's right. There's still a significant concern in the intelligence community about just how reliable the United Arab Emirates is and whether or not they are truly going to honor commitments to not share this technology with China. So you have this split in the White House of one group of advisors that's saying, hey, we've got to be careful here and the other group saying, sell, sell, sell. So that's a class that's playing out in March and April

until suddenly there's a big disruption. And what is that disruption? So Laura Lumer, a conservative activist, who has the year of President Trump, is frequently coming into the White House and talking to Trump and giving him a list of people that she wants to see fired. And it ends up that one of the people on that list is David Fyke, who is one of the leaders of the effort in the White House to try to crack down and limit the export of the most advanced American chips.

He and a number of other folks from the White House National Security team are fired within a day. So basically, the guardrails that had existed within the White House are gone at this point. What happened was that some of the key players that were quite concerned about additional sharing exited. But the biggest thing that happened was that that was an opening for David Sachs to become the de facto leader of this effort. And Sachs comes in, yeah, let's sell as many chips as possible because it will benefit the United States. So the fight in the White House over whether to sell these chips to Tachnune into the UAE, it sounds like it's now leaning very heavily in favor of doing a deal. What is going on with the other negotiation between the UAE and World Liberty at this point? So the first thing that happens is that $2 billion moves from the United Arab Emirates to World Liberty in early May.

And effectively overnight, World Liberty becomes one of the largest stable coin crypto companies in the world. And it turns what was a startup with an uncertain future into one of the biggest players in the crypto space in the world. And that single action by the United Arab Emirates is going to make the owners of World Liberty tens of millions of dollars. a year. Wow. That's done. That deal is done. But the chips deal isn't yet decided. And then basically the UAE comes in and says, you know what? We don't just want 100,000 chips. We want 500,000 chips. And we want the most advanced chips. This happens in May while this debate is playing out. And some of the people from the White House and from the Trump administration that are participating in this are like amazed at what has just been requested, a massive increase in the compute power that the UAE wants.

and Sacks takes the position that this is a deal that should be landed. And Wittkopf is coming in and saying, you know, this is a signature moment for the president and the new administration. He's heading over to the Middle East and he needs deals to sign. But I want to thank His Highness. And so Trump goes over into the UAE. I want to also thank his highness, Sheikh Tachnoon. There's a big event that Sachs is there, Wittkopf is there, Shake Tuck Noon.

is there? Yesterday, the two countries also agreed to create a path for UAE to buy some of the world's most advanced AI semiconductors from... And they announced that they reached an agreement to give them 500,000 ships a year. This will generate billions and billions of dollars in business and accelerate the UAE's plans to become a really major player in artificial intelligence. I remember this announcement. This was his first big international trip, right, where they made this announcement. That's right, it was a huge event. But this was coming to UAE was very important, coming to Saudi Arabia and Qatar was very important to me

because of personal relationships that I had maybe more than anything else. And it's potentially transformational for the future of the United Arab Emirates in terms of its place in the global economy. Thank you very much. But wait, okay, what about all the security concerns? What about all the concerns about whether these chips were going to go to China? Did they get addressed? Did they evaporate? They made some initial commitments in the deal that was signed in May, like cyber controls at the data centers and commitments around who would have access to these data centers.

But they largely agree to further negotiate the terms of the security agreement in a working group that would be created after the Trump administration announced the deal. So basically they pick the can down the road. They punt it. Yes. And that was very frustrating and disappointing to some of these skeptics inside the administration. They were saying we had the most leverage at this moment. We should have asked, for example, no more joint military exercises with China, no more advanced technology sharing with Chinese companies that are going to be anywhere close to your data centers. They wanted those commitments up front. Sacks and the Trump administration that we'll work on these commitments in the weeks and months ahead, they are still being

negotiated. Do you think it's too far to say that punting it suggests that Sacks and Whitkoff don't care that much about the concerns? No. No, I mean, what I heard from some White House aides that were supportive of the deal was that not a single chip is going to be transferred until they are confident that the security protocols are rock solid. And that said, that did not satisfied the skeptics who wanted these security terms negotiated up front and ultimately Saks won that fight. I just want to posit a theory though for a minute because what you're laying out here, it definitely sounds like the Trump administration eased up on a concern that the Biden administration had that even some people in the Trump administration also shared. And the concern

could be that they eased up because Trump and Whitkoff had a financial incentive to give. the UAE what it wants. But could it also be true that David Sachs and others had a legitimate, non-corrupt debate over the wisest chips policy? Like, rather than keep these chips from China, they felt like the wiser thing to do was to make sure the entire world, including China, is reliant on American chips, on American technology and needs to get it from us. The administration recently reversed course and said that it would give China some of these chips directly, if I'm not mistaken. So I'm just sort of wondering how you're thinking about whether this is problematic or whether this reflects a change in attitude about sharing chips or whether it's some combination or something else. I think ultimately it is a combination because there was definitely a clash of worldviews.

There was the SAC's philosophy and also the philosophy of invidia. and I spoke with executives there, that they felt like really the United States is better off economically and also in its national security interest if the U.S. tech stack becomes the global tech stack. And the way that you do that is you distribute your technology globally and the world relies upon it and you build up the strength of that tech stack. And China is still not going to get ahead of us, is their belief. Because we're holding on to most of the chips domestically. We're only sharing a relatively small number of them with UAE.

That's the argument that they make. But this whole thing has become blurry and complicated because regardless of this substantive debate that they were having in the White House, there's $2 billion that is going from UAE to the Trump and Wickkopf family's business. It's hard not to wonder about the intentionality of that and the motivations. Right. It's not normal for the president and his Middle East advisor to have a financial interest in matters that they're involved in. I mean, basically what the concern is, just to put it really bluntly, is like, who is the president and the administration representing here? And how can we be confident? The president's own interests and the interests of his close advisors are not playing some kind of role in a deal that impacts America's economic security, national security, and many other facets of the country.

That's right. And actually, I heard that from people within the Trump administration that they had that same question. And that's really kind of startling to me to hear that that comes from inside the walls that are involved in these deliberations, that they wondered the same thing. And the consequences here are so enormous. I mean, we're talking about technology that is every day transforming the world. And the United States has such a dominant place in developing this technology, but to throw into that equation a $2 billion deal that's going to a company that's owned in part

by the Middle East envoy and the family of the president. It's just like, how is that possible? I mean, at a minimum, it creates an appearance of a conflict of interest and an appearance of corruption. It's a blurring of lines that are going to lead to second-guessing that is going to play out around the interactions with the Middle East. You know, a key party in so many decisions now about peace and war and financial matters.

And, I mean, all of these interactions are now being colored by financial connections to Trump and his administration. Eric, thank you so much. Thank you, Rachel, for having me. In a statement to the Times, the White House said that the $2 billion

crypto deal was, quote, totally unrelated to any government business. Meanwhile, a spokesman for Sheikh Tuck Noon insisted that his business dealings operate to the, quote, highest standards of integrity and governance. We'll be right back. Here's what else you need to know today. On Tuesday, President Trump gave a 56-minute speech full of grievances against the United Nations to the United Nations. They ranged from a malfunctioning escalator at the U.N. building to not winning a renovation

contract, even questioning whether the United Nations should even exist. What is the purpose of the United Nations? The speech went nearly four times longer than Trump's allotted time limit, during which he lectured the U.N. and other nations about how they were failing. Your countries are going to hell. And a federal jury found Ryan Ruth guilty of trying to assassinate President Trump last year during the presidential campaign. Ruth, armed with a semi-automatic rifle, staked out Trump at one of his Florida golf courses before being spotted by a Secret Service agent. During closing arguments, prosecutors said that Ruth was just, quote, one bullet away from killing Trump.

After the verdict was read, Ruth appeared to try to stab himself in the neck several times with a pen. He now faces the possibility of life in prison. Today's episode was produced by Shannon Lynn with help from Jessica Chung. It was edited by Rachel Quester with help from Paige Cowett. Contains original music by Pat McCusker, Marion Lazzano, Rowan Nimistow, and Alicia B.Eachoup, and was engineered by Alyssa Moxley. Special thanks to David Dioffi Bellany. That's it for the Daily. I'm Rachel Abrams. See you tomorrow.