The Daily - The Year Since Oct. 7

Episode Date: October 7, 2024

Warning: this episode contains descriptions of war and trauma.One year ago, Israel suffered the worst terrorist attack in its history. The conflict that followed has become bigger and deadlier by the day, killing tens of thousands of people and expanding from Gaza to Yemen, Lebanon and now Iran.Today, we return to two men in Israel and Gaza, to hear how their lives have changed.Guests: Golan Abitbul, a resident of Kibbutz Be’eri, in southern Israel; and Hussein Owda, who was among more than a million people sheltering in Rafah.Background reading: How Oct. 7 sparked a year of conflict.Listen to the first interview with Golan.Listen to the first interview with Hussein.For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday. Soon, you’ll need a subscription to keep full access to this show, and to other New York Times podcasts, on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Don’t miss out on exploring all of our shows, featuring everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts.

From the New York Times, I'm Sabrina Tavernisi, and this is The Daily. One year ago, Israel suffered the worst terrorist attack in its history. The conflict that followed has become bigger and deadlier by the day, killing tens of thousands of people and expanding from Gaza to Yemen, Lebanon, and now Iran. But as big as October 7th still looms in the world, Its most powerful legacy is on the ground with the people who lived through it and are still enduring its aftermath. Today, we return to two men in Israel and Gaza

to hear how their lives have changed. It's Monday, October 7 attacks. My name is Golan Abitbol. My age is 44. I live in Kibbutz Berry. And I was born in the Kibbutz. Golan's Kibbutz in southern Israel was one of the hardest hit places in the country. We woke up to the sound of launching missiles.

He described the attack by Hamas that day as unfolding like a nightmare. You could see murder in the eyes. He saw men going house to house. They took babies. They killed his friends. They took kids. His neighbors.

They took elderly people. People he'd known all his life. The best friend of my son, the most adorable, gentle kid, and they just ripped him away from the hands of his mother. It was more than seven hours before help arrived. By the end, the community had been devastated. 101 of its roughly 1,200 residents had been killed. 10 hostages remain in Gaza, but only three are thought to be alive. People from Gaza, they were our friends, and we donated money to them.

Many of the people who lived in the community believed in peace with the Palestinians. The mother of a friend of mine, she used to go once a week to one of the border crossing with Gaza Strip and pick up with her car children and take them to get dialysis in Israeli hospitals. Some of them had even made it their life's work. We are liberal person. We don't believe that all of the people in Gaza are evil. We don't believe. We didn't believe. I'm sorry.

We didn't believe. I don't know what I'm thinking now. But Golan said that, for him, what happened on October 7th threw all of that into question. Golan, hi. Hi, how are you? I'm very good. I'm glad to see you. Sorry for the quality of the selfie camera. Last week, I called Golan. He and his family were living in the coastal city of Haifa. They had moved there from a hotel on the Dead Sea, where they'd been living after the attack. We've been to the hotel for five months. They were great. The people did their best to help us cope. But

it's hard. It's hard to live in a hotel. We had three rooms for all of us and you go out and there is all the grief. And basically, one of the girls didn't took it very well and me and my wife thought that it's not a good solution for us and our family and we went to Haifa. Was that your daughter? What was she experiencing? It was very hard to make her go to the school. They made in the Dead Sea. She took the bed like a half a meter away from the wall and put some pillows and put on her headphones and just

stayed there. So she kind of shut down. Yeah. And we decided we need to leave. When you moved into the apartment in Haifa, what did that feel like? Did that feel like going back to normal in some way? It's a mixed feeling because I consider my home in Kibbutz barely. From one side, we are back in civilization, but it's not my civilization because I used to be in a kibbutz. It's a shithole.

You can't get anything delivered over there. I'm not used to this scenery of cars and people I don't know. In the beginning, it felt like a betrayal. How do you explain that? Because it's the community. It's to go outside and walk barefoot and pick lemons from the neighbor tree and know everyone else and go and sit and drink coffee with the other neighbors. Wherever you go, you

know everyone and changing this, it took me time. But I know it was the good solution. It was good for the kids to leave the hotel and come here. Do you feel like you found some peace now after all these months after that roller coaster? Have you settled a bit emotionally? No. No. It's all mixed together. It's all mixed together.

I guess I'm better than the last time we talked, but I'm not okay. I'm not okay. I have a lot of sadness and a lot of anger that wasn't there before. I'm not a sad person. Not a angry person, not a vengeful person. I wasn't. Not a warmonger person. I wasn't. It's a different situation. We're not the same. None of us is the same. I can't put my hands exactly on it. Golan, when I talked to you after October 7th, speaking of anger, you did mention you

were angry. I remember that in your voice and you just felt like the sense of disbelief that it had happened and anger. You said there were kind of some closenesses between the kibbutz and Gazans. There were Gazans who worked at the kibbutz. There were people who helped Gazans get to cancer treatments. There were donations. But that October 7th had changed things.

Do you still feel angry? How are you feeling on that front? I think my thought of the Palestinian people changed, and not for the best. I'm not saying I was left-wing, but I had hope for a solution, peaceful solution, which I don't have now. And I have a lot of disappointment of my government that still didn't find the way to bring my friend back and they are dying over there. I'm really disappointed that this is the same army that didn't saw what is going on beyond the fence, just four kilometers outside of my house. I can't believe it's the same army and the same

intelligence operations. It's hard. They add an obligation for us and they neglected us and now they need to return our friends and family back. And for the last year, they didn't do it. They didn't do it. Do you think the government is making a mistake by not making that the priority? Yeah. Yeah. This is the priority. We don't have time.

They're dying there. We need to make it a priority. We need to make it first priority. And... I can't change it. Yeah. Yeah. Golan, you said that your view on Palestinians had changed, that you lost hope for a peaceful solution. I don't believe there is any way that us and the Palestinians are going to be in some kind

of a mutual agreement that have some kind of coexistence. I believe that in the end, I don't think there are any good people to do peace anymore with. I don't like war. I don't like to see the Palestinians the way they are but I hate it I really hate that they made me change my mind on them I hate them for showing me that the worst of them the worst things they can do they can be and I will never forgive them. I will never forgive them for what they did. I will never forgive them for the slaughter and the ways they murdered my friends. I will never forgive them.

But isn't the answer that it's not a monolith in Gaza either, right? That there are different people there. There are those people who did October 7th and then there are also other people. And it's just pretty complicated. I don't think anymore that way. I believe that we should alienate ourselves from the Palestinians. I think we should not be near them. I think we can't trust them. I think the solution is just to build the big wall and they are here and we are there. I don't think we can ever trust them to annihilate the urge to kill us. I think it's always was there somewhere in the back of their head.

Maybe there are people who are not singing like that, but the majority of them, they can say they are peaceful, but I believe that somewhere in the back of their fundamentalist head, they want to kill us. Golan, it feels, it feels very hopeless to me and it feels different because as you said, you didn't have this view before October 7th. In the past, I thought we can do it. We can do it in a peaceful solution, but we can't do it, we can't. And we tried to do it in Gaza, we tried just to take everything and go out and you saw what happened. We took everything and the maturity and enough humanity inside of

them to just let us live and and let us stay here. I guess I'm curious how you think about this. I've had a conversation with a man in Gaza who had sent his kids and his wife to Egypt because he felt like it was very dangerous in Gaza. He very much disagreed with what happened on October 7th, but has kind of been caught up with everything that's happened since, namely the invasion of Gaza and the war there. Do you see that there, or acknowledge that there could be people there in Gaza who weren't party to what happened and who were suffering,

though they did nothing? happened and who were suffering, though they did nothing? I'm sure there are people who didn't do it. I'm sure. I know there are a lot of innocent persons and I don't like to see them die. But I really, really want my friends back. And I really, really want the Hamas regime to be gone after what they did to us and if you keep terrorist organization if you let terrorist organization build a tunnel under your house you are part of it you are part of it. This is the regime they have, and we have to annihilate

them after what they did to us. And they said they are going to do it again. But what about those people you said who were not part of it? wish for Palestinian kids and innocent people to die. I really don't. But I don't think there can be any peaceful solution to us and Zen. I think that you can't do such an horrific massacre, and it's not affecting all of the community over there. They are part of it. This is the price of war.

But there are innocent people that suffer as a result. Of course. But it's a war and we need to finish it and we need to finish the Hamas and Hamas is still there. We are all inside Gaza now. We are all inside this fight. We, whether it's our friends that are fighting there or whether it's my friends who are being hostage there. All you have to do is bring the hostages back and stop trying to kill us. And this is what really bothers me about all the international community. They can give really a lot of critics on Israel because we are not being humane and not being...

Give pressure on the Hamas to bring the hostages back. Give pressure on Hezbollah to stop shooting at us. The last years they have been shooting at us. Okay, if the international community would have stopped Hezbollah from shooting, we didn't have to invade. I don't want to invade Lebanon. I don't want it in the other side also. I don't want the Lebanese and the Palestinians and the Houthis in Yemen. We can't sit on our hands while they are slaughtering us. We can't sit on our hands while after a year of nonstop bombing from the north. We can't. We have to go to war.

Golan, what do you want people to understand about you and about Israel a year later. We don't want this war. We were dragged into this war by force, by brute force and terror. And we don't want to keep on doing it. We don't want to keep on killing our neighbors. And it's that simple. Just stop, stop trying to kill us. And maybe in a few decades we can have some kind of reasonable peace. After we forget.

After the pain will be a little more numb. Golan, thank you for talking to me. Yeah, thank you. When we come back, the story of Hussein, a Palestinian man living in Gaza. I first spoke to Hussein in February. Hussein? Hello? Hi. My goodness, it's very difficult to get through.

The day the war began, he was waiting for a furniture delivery to fill his newly renovated home in Gaza City. That home was destroyed in the war's early weeks. and in the months after that, he moved four times, each time further south in the Gaza Strip. Eventually Hussein ended up in Ra'afah, the southernmost city on the border with Egypt. What does it look like? At the time, nearly half of Gaza's population had taken shelter there. And Hussein was trying to decide whether he should send his wife and three children to safety in Egypt. We never imagined that we can be in a real situation where we got to choose.

It was hard. Living without them, he said, might be too painful for him. But staying in Gaza was too dangerous for them. A few days later, Hussein paid to get them out. But he stayed behind. To work them away and to care for his elderly parents. Hussein? Hussein can you hear me? Yeah I hear you, yes. Hussein, hi! I'm? Yeah, I hear you, yes. Hussein, hi, I'm glad to hear you. Me too.

You sound clear. Yes, thank God. Actually, I got a good connection right now. Hussein, where are you right now? Where am I catching you? Right now I'm in Deir el-Balah, in the middle area of Gaza Strip. It's, I guess, the fifth or sixth displacement or location I am in through the last year. When I reached Hussein last week, he was living in central Gaza with his parents and siblings.

I'm living in a house. I got the financial ability to pay, but even though that I am in a house, I got to fetch water. I get to do this because there is no water reaching the houses. And imagine I pay monthly for this apartment, 3,500 shekels, which is almost $1,000. Wow. And for me, I am less than 1% of the community who are almost a year without work. They don't work. They don't have income. So imagine I have a good income and I'm facing this problem to secure my basic needs.

I can't get clothes, shoes, proper food, anything. I've been wearing the same clothes for a year right now. The same shoe I'm wearing for a whole year, which has fallen apart and torn out. But there is no choice. Even though I got the financial capability to buy a new pair, but there is nothing in the market. It became so strange if you see someone who looks well,

or who are dressed well. All the people are looking miserable. You can see the pain, the misery, the struggle on their faces, the loss. It's obvious, the loss. And due to the lack of clothes, most of the people are wearing the same thing as if they are in a uniform, but in a dirty uniform, the same misery over their faces. All of us are kind of lost, you know? All of us are lost here. And Hussein, what's an average day for you? What's your life like from day to day? I try to avoid thinking, to keep myself busy. Each day, I wake up early in the morning, I check on the water, I try to get a couple of buckets to just wash my face and to wash my feet, etc.

Which is literally seawater. When I wash my face, actually it bathes. Wow, it's seawater. Yeah. Then I try to go to my work. We just got electricity and internet on the work. And when I go back to home, I try to keep myself as much as busy. I try to walk on the streets for an hour or two hours. Because staying alone is very hard for me, far from my kids and my wife. But most of the day I try to keep myself busy walking. Yeah, not to think, to walk. You said that you try not to think. What do you try

to avoid thinking about? Where do you not want your mind to go? thinking about. Where do you not want your mind to go? About not seeing my kids again. Yeah. Hussein, tell me about how you talk to your kids. How often do you talk to them? How do you keep in touch with them? Over WhatsApp, yeah. When I got internet, I talked to them. Sometimes we have video calls, et cetera, voice calls. I'm trying to follow up their life and to be with them. And they share videos with me, what have they done

and the places they are going to, about their dreams, what they do. Yeah. And thank God, Alhamdulillah, that they got food right now, they got proper clothes right now. And inshallah, they are safe there. Yeah. And this released me, at least, that they are safe. Are they back in school?

Yeah, online just because they don't have residency papers and they can't enroll on schools. So just online. Their teacher is in Gaza or in Egypt on that online school? On the West Bank. On the West Bank, wow. So they're in Egypt and they're taking online school with a teacher in the West Bank. Wow, that's quite an arrangement. So complicated life.

Very, very. What about your wife? How is she doing? life. Very, very. What about your wife? How is she doing? Alhamdulillah, she's doing well. Yeah. And I know there is a lot of things over her shoulders and it's very hard on her, but Alhamdulillah she still can do it and have the strength to care. Yeah. And actually I never imagined that I can survive this. And it seems that we are surviving. I've seen people out there, I've seen people all burned up. I see rockets falling in front of me. I saw my house which I've been working for all my life to build, being destroyed and to be bombed. I've seen a lot of things, but I'm still surviving. I guess the humans

got a huge power. We don't know about it. Hussein, are you surprised that the war is still going? I'm surprised that there are humans doing this force. Why do they do it? How could humans become this evil, killing others, imposing collective punishment on over two million people with no reason. What are they going to gain? Why they are doing this? How could humans do this to other humans?

Well, it's actually, I'm still shocked how people can do this. And why to do wars from the beginning? Why to occupy other people's land? Why to do all of these things? I wanted to ask you, Hussein, on the question of why the war is still going, there have been many efforts to try to get a ceasefire and a hostage deal, but until now they failed. What do you think of that? What do you think is happening?

I think that I'm a hostage, actually. I'm a hostage. For me, alongside with around two million people, we are hostages. What's the difference between us or any hostage? Do we have our freedom? Do we live normal life? Do we get to do our decisions? No.

We are forced in this situation via guns and weapons. Yeah. And I wish that someone would try to do a deal to release us. Not me only. The whole nation of the Palestinians are hostages in their land and outside their lands. Hussein, you said you want them to do a deal, but they have been trying to do a deal. It hasn't worked. Do you feel that one particular party is at fault here? Are you mad at Hamas? I'm mad at humanity at all. And all of the humanity, not on Hamas, Israeli or whoever, on humans who accept this situation. It's not a matter of Hamas, Palestine, Israel, whatever. It's

a matter of humanity. We are talking about more than 50,000 people were killed, around 20,000 kids. What's their fault to be killed? What have they done? For me, I really believe in human rights and justice and equality between all the humans. But do the world do? Because we are not only seeing, we are facing double standards that we are involved to. All the world is watching us, see, tell, humiliated, and no one is doing anything. LW – Are you worried that as this conflict gets bigger, that Gazans will be forgotten, will be less on people's minds out in the world? Actually, what I'm worried about is this will alter the mentality of people, even though the people who are believing in peace and resolution between the nations. When you lose your kid, when you

lose your brother, when you lose your house, and you know that this party, that this side have killed them, has displaced you, the collective punishment on you. And they are the reason of the dire situation you are living in. I guess people would seek revenge, won't believe in peace again. You're worried this experience will make people not want peace. Yeah. I'm wondering how this world can be unfair. And how am I going to believe again in human rights, inequality, injustice, when I see that it doesn't apply on us? it doesn't apply on us. I'm still believing on this, but I'm afraid that this picture would collapse due to what's happening here in Gaza. It will encourage other parties and other nations and other countries to offend, to humiliate, tell other people when they see that some countries are doing this and it's fine. We can do it. It's okay to

kill anyone, to put collective punishment on not one or two, on two million people, it's okay to keep it for more than ten years, it's fine. So it would encourage people to be uncivilized. It would encourage barbarian violence to the whole world. Hussein, remind us how old your children are. My children, nine, seven, and two. Nine, seven, and two. The littlest one is now two. Yes, and when they travel before, he didn't start talking yet,

but right now he is talking. He's talking. He's talking with me, yeah. It's so hard that your son is growing far from you, especially these times and this age. Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

Do you feel like it was the right decision to send them to Egypt? Yes, for sure. Are they happy in Egypt? They are happy with the chocolate, with the coke, with the chips, with the toys, with the clothes. I remember the first two weeks, they were kind of insane that they find the chocolate and potato chips and corks to drink and et cetera.

They were so super, super heavy. And they just kept telling me that we got this, we eat this, they were happy to eat. They were happy to find food. Yeah. Do you think you will see them again? Insha'Allah, yeah, insha'Allah. We will reunite, insha'Allah, see each other again.

But each night, when I talk to my kids, they are crying and saying, you shall come to here. When are they going to open the borders? When are you going to come? And I don't have answers, actually. Hussein, thank you very much for talking to me. Thank you, Sabrina. I'm sorry for talking a lot.

No, it's okay. Thank you for hearing me. It's okay. I really appreciate you sharing your thoughts and your life with me. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Bye-bye.

Okay. Bye-bye, Hussein. Bye. We'll be right back. Here's what else you should know today. In Gaza on Sunday, the Israeli military carried out airstrikes and issued evacuation orders for nearly all of northern Gaza, ahead of what it called a new phase in the war there. It also ordered residents in southern Lebanon to evacuate over the weekend, while Israeli airstrikes hit Dahya, a neighborhood south of Beirut, where Hezbollah holds sway and where heavy bombardment has already forced many to flee. In Israel, efforts to mark the anniversary of the deadly attack by Hamas are constrained

by security concerns and the ongoing conflict. Israel has yet to hold a national day of mourning for the people killed or taken hostage a year ago today. Today's episode was produced by Diana Nguyen, Michael Simon Johnson, and Rachelle Banja. It was edited by Mark George with help from Patricia Willens. Research help by Susan Lee and Yonatan Reyes. Contains original music by Marian Lozano, Alisha Baitup and Rowan Nimisto. And was engineered by Alyssa Moxley. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsvark of Wonderly. Special thanks to

Yonatan Reyes and Patrick Kingsley. That's it for the daily. I'm Sabrina Tavernese. See you tomorrow.