The Daily - Tuesday, Dec. 26, 2017

Episode Date: December 26, 2017

The Daily is revisiting favorite episodes of the year — listening back, and then hearing what’s happened in the time since the stories first ran. Today we’re going back to an episode from the early weeks of the Trump administration, when we met a man named Carlos who got caught up in the president’s crackdown on immigrants already living in the U.S. illegally. Guests: Monica Davey, the Chicago bureau chief for The New York Times; Tim Grigsby, a print shop owner in West Frankfort, Ill. For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily.

Hi, it's Michael. This week, The Daily is revisiting our favorite episodes of the year, listening back and then hearing what's happened in the time since the stories first ran. Today, we're going back to an episode from the early weeks of the Trump administration, when we met a man named Carlos,

who got caught up in the president's crackdown on immigrants already living in the U.S. illegally. From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily. Today, federal immigration agents are celebrating the president's new plan to deport unauthorized immigrants, saying they feel newly respected, empowered, and finally free to do their jobs. And the story of what happened when those federal agents showed up in a small town

that had overwhelmingly voted for President Trump, and his campaign rhetoric became a reality. It's Monday, February 27th. Monica Davey, I'm a reporter at the New York Times. Nice to meet you. You don't have... Yeah, I work... I write for the New York Times, but I work out of Chicago, so I cover the Midwest.

So I'm not here from New York. Everyone keeps asking me, you flew all the way here, what? So today, we're in West Frankfurt, Illinois, where my colleague Monica Davey, the Chicago bureau chief at The Times, had heard about a recent incident involving one man in town, an incident that has shaken the whole town's beliefs about politics, identity, and immigration. West Frankfurt is a small town of 8,000 people and it's down in southern Illinois, a five-hour drive south of Chicago. So it's way down in kind of the heart

of coal country. It's generations of people who have worked in the coal mining industry. And unfortunately, the coal mining industry has suffered down there. So a lot of people have lost their jobs. What are the politics of this town? In the past, I'm told by people who live there, it's been a Democratic stronghold, but things have changed there. The economy has struggled. And in the county that West Frankfurt is in, people voted 70% for Donald Trump because they're worried about their jobs. They feel like he's going to potentially bring them back and bring back their husband's jobs. And there's a real worry about the future of the industry down there.

And the incident that brought you to West Frankfurt revolves around a man named Carlos. Who is Carlos? So Juan Carlos Hernandez Pacheco is a manager of a restaurant, La Fiesta, which is a Mexican restaurant right there on Main Street in town. And I'm not sure I've ever walked into a town and asked after someone who wasn't, you know, either the mayor or some political figure, some superstar, and had so many people say to me, oh my gosh, Carlos. It doesn't matter what he's doing. If you come in, he will sit down with you and he'll ask about your kids and he'll ask about your family. Everybody knows him. It'll be really hard to find somebody that doesn't. You know, I literally walked into the hair salon and the ladies in the hair salon just couldn't be more effusive with their stories about what Carlos had done for them. He'll ask about a family member, and he may sit down and talk with them.

And if that person, say, is sick, he may go visit them in the hospital. You know, everybody you ask has a little story about Carlos. One of my buddy's dad was in St. Louis in the hospital getting open-heart surgery. My buddy was up there, and as he's coming down the elevator, you know, it's a two-hour trip from us. Carlos is coming up the elevator. And he's like, Carlos, what are you doing here? And he's like, I'm here to visit a friend. They talk about how he was really involved in raising funds in town. We've done several fundraisers together that he's held at La Fiesta Restaurant. So he held a Blue Lives Matters event last fall when,

you know, there was so much tumult for police officers nationally. And so he, you know, held a day where in the restaurant, it was in honor of police officers. And he last fall, they had a big fire. Somebody told me it was like 50 firefighters had to come in to try to put out this fire. And apparently Carlos just turns up without being asked by anyone with this huge load of food. He sets up underneath a tent and he proceeds to serve the firefighters through the rest of the time that they're fighting this fire. He is serving them to make sure that they have enough to eat. Wow. You know, just out of his pocket, he doesn't ever expect anything in return.

So he's a stand-up guy. He's just that type of individual. Personally, I just went through a divorce. He was there, you know, night and day for me. Tim Grigsby owns a printing shop in the town and has known and worked with Carlos for years. Yeah, he's a really great friend of Tim's. He's not just a friend, but we've had Thanksgiving and Christmas together. He's more closer as a family member than as a friend per se. You know, if I was going to pick anybody to say this is the perfect person that you should use as a role model for your life, that's Carlos.

This is Carlos's place in West Frankfurt. And then. Hey, everybody, it is Tuesday, November the 8th, 2016. So on November 8th. It's finally here. Tim and Carlos were hanging out together. Yeah, Carlos and I, we watched the election together. And CNN projects Donald Trump will carry the state of Florida.

I was very excited as far as when. I guess there was that time period that this could go either way, where it kind of turned. Donald Trump has taken the lead and obviously was going his way. You know, to me, I was very excited on seeing the potential of him winning the election. Donald Trump could be the next president of the United States. And obviously, any politician, you don't necessarily agree 100% with their stance. You know, our area is economically depressed. We're very dependent on coal mines. The Obamacare, I'm a self-employed businessman. You know, my health insurance went

up from $490 to $840 a month. That's a lot. Just in the last couple months. So Obamacare, I wasn't a fan of, and I still don't agree with it. I'm not saying I'm against. I do believe that everybody needs to have health insurance. I currently don't now because I just refuse to pay that. What was Carlos' reaction that night? You were excited about Trump's victory, which wasn't necessarily expected by everybody? What was his reaction? I wasn't inside Carlos's mind, but obviously, you know, he at the same time has some of the same viewpoints as I do, as far as, you know, there's things that Trump victory would bring to our area that would help us out. Now, obviously, the immigration, his immigration policies had to bother him. Monica, what happened to Carlos two weeks ago?

Well, so Carlos had dropped his kid at school and was apparently headed home. One of his employees came here. He said that, he said, we've got a problem. And I thought, actually, I thought he was talking about a job that we had recently done. And I'm like, well, I haven't printed anything three in two weeks. What are you talking about? He ran into some officers from immigration, from ICE. Federal officers?

Yes. They were actually looking for another individual, and they had asked Carlos for his papers. He didn't have any, and he was arrested, and he was taken to Missouri to a detention facility there, and he's been there ever since. Carlos is an undocumented immigrant. He came from Mexico in 1997. I think that much we know for sure. I've known for several years, I guess. It wasn't something that we discussed on a daily basis or anything like that. The ordinary people who knew Carlos, Carlos the guy doing volunteer work, Carlos, the manager of La Fiesta, they didn't know it at all.

They just assumed he was legal. He'd been there so long. I mean, multiple people said to me, he's got to be legal. It never even crossed their mind that he wasn't legally in this country. You know, the reason Carlos came was his sister was very sick. The people who really knew him the most closely say that he tried to get legal status, at least at some point along the way. It's very hard to kind of, I guess, hold something against somebody

that was putting someone else in front of himself. I mean, he knew the risk, but at the same time, he was trying to help his family. We'll be right back. The town learned the news. It kind of spread around because some immigration agents had been in town, and it's a pretty little town, so you can't go really many places without people knowing. I think the reaction was a surprise and shock, a shock that he wasn't legal, and also just a sense, there was sort of a growing sense that, well, he shouldn't be in this group of people. It's just not something that, until this happened, has ever really hit close to home.

I talked to a woman named Audrey Loftus, who's a bartender at the local VFW post. She said she was really on the fence about the whole issue because she does believe in following the rules, and immigration hasn't been a big issue for her. We all kind of have a saying that we worry about the home team. We worry about our families first. And I worry about my kids and I worry about my husband being employed. And I would like to see some of the people that I know go back to work before I worry about people from other countries coming here and making a better life for themselves. It's just, I know that sounds selfish. But it was funny, though, when you talked to her about Carlos.

I hate to use the word rednecks, but this is southern Illinois. I mean, this is the definition of a good old boys club, and you don't have a lot of people of different ethnicities that are in this area. And then there's Carlos. You will not find a single person that has anything bad to say about him. And this has a tendency to be a pretty racially divided area. This is a perfect example of it here. I mean, this...

In the Viet Duct of you? Well, it's just, you know, we are veterans of foreign wars. We have a lot of, you know, older men that are very set in their ways and their mindset of thinking, and no one will say anything bad about him. It's just never going to happen. It's amazing. I mean, it's really fascinating. Do you think people don't think of him as being Hispanic? I think that's a lot of it.

It's just never been, I don't think anyone's really ever thought about it. It's so funny to write about somebody without meeting them, because I have this impression of him. So would he come off like a good old boy to me if I was meeting him? Yes, he really would. Like he just acts like everybody else. I saw people struggling. Anytime I'd say, well, do you think an exception should be made for Carlos? They would actually push back again.

I don't like the word exception. I don't think Carlos is the only individual that is probably gives more to his community or is such an asset. And yeah, I mean, I think I do think that everybody's case needs to be reviewed. In my opinion, Carlos has been here 20 years. He's been a contributor to our community and to our society. He pays his taxes. He's not a burden to our taxpayers. He's given a whole hell of a lot more than what he's took. Let's put it that way.

So you can feel the discomfort over this. It's hard to see a principal become the person when it's the person you know. It's hard to see a principal become the person when it's the person you know. And I had a number of people in town say to me the truth is that they felt Carlos was a better community citizen than they were. That Carlos was doing more for the town than they were. case, that Carlos has something in his background that may make this a grayer, messier situation? What is that? Well, it's not a secret to anyone in West Frankfurt, because I think his friends have been pretty open about it. So Carlos has two DUI convictions from 2007. And it is worth noting that immigration officials, they've said fairly little about this case, but they do mention his two prior convictions.

I mean, I knew about those. From the legal standpoint, he fulfilled all his obligations. He got into AA. He's not had a drink, I know, over seven or eight years. Are those DUI arrests and convictions, are they a reason why Carlos was detained and may now face deportation? We just don't know. We don't know if it's a factor. We know that it's true, but we don't know whether this has any bearing on the situation he's in. I mean, okay, if it was an American citizen, and say I got a DUI eight years ago, and I did everything that I was supposed to do, would anybody look at me any differently in life right now? Nobody's perfect, you know,

and everybody has probably something in their history that they're probably not proud of. If it is something like that, they do take care of it and they do better themselves. How can you chastise somebody for something like that? Friends call him an upstanding citizen and community leader. But tonight, a West Frankfurt man sits in jail on questions of his legal status in the United States. In the days since he was detained, people across the town of West Frankfurt have come out in support of Carlos. His wife and children are all U.S. citizens. I don't think anyone imagined just the level of support.

Several public servants have reached out to ICE testifying to Carlos' character. They got letters from the mayor of West Frankfurt, from the Rotary Club president, from the fire chief of the city, from the county prosecutor, no less. Have you written a letter yourself? Yes, I have.

And what does it say? I can pull it up here. One second. I mean, do you just want me to read the letter to you? I mean, anything. If you think there's a passage that's important to you. You know, Carlos and I have done business together for over 10 years now through La Fiesta since they came to our town and built the restaurant.

Throughout the years, I became best friends with a person that has made one of the biggest impressions on my life. His demeanor is a perfect example of what every person in this world should be and how they should act. I've spent many years here doing many community service projects and fundraisers. I'm very proud to say that Carlos has been heavily involved in these activities and many others right along my side. I know very few people that give as much as this individual that contributes so much to our community. His contributions are immeasurable here in southern Illinois.

He's no way in any danger to our community. He's nothing but an asset. And truthfully, if we lose him, our community is going to have a hole in it that will be very difficult to fill if we'll ever be able to fill it. So do you continue to support the president? Yeah, I continue to support the president. Do I continue to support him on these immigration policies? No, I do not. I guess the whole thing is kind of, I don't know, more or less, I'm not saying woke us up, but a lot of the things that don't necessarily touch your life immediately, this actually reached out and grabbed us and said,

hey, this is your buddy. Shortly after this story first ran in February, Carlos was released from the detention center where he was held after posting a $3,000 bond. Earlier this month, Monica Davey went back to West Frankfurt and met with Carlos in his home. Hi. How are you? Carlos is still waiting for a hearing to determine whether he will be deported or can stay in the United States.

The last that our readers understood, you were being detained. And so some people thought, well, maybe he's going to be deported before he even gets home. So what's happened since? Well, I was able to get out. My community reached out, like, apparently all over the world. But I think the big impact was after i got out yeah when all the even media from mexico or they were here i was frustrated by paying too much attention to my case there was 20 other in there that day that i was getting out a night before there were more people from all over not just mexicans i think I think. It was a Pakistani guy, somebody from Jordan, Yemen.

I hear you thinking about other people's cases, which sounds like everything I've been told about you, that you're worrying about everybody's case, not just your own. But what's the situation now? What is the thought of what happens actually next? As far as legal procedures, we haven't had the hearing, the actual hearing. You know, sometimes I think, well, my case should be done in three hours or a month or a year.

Mine, it's going to take forever. And it's almost a year. And the house is chaos. I mean, how much does this worry you day by day? Definitely, it still bothers me. I mean, it can go left or right. It can go back or it can stay. Obviously, I would love to stay.

I would love to stay. We don't talk too much with the kids about it. Yeah. When they give us a date i think it was one time it was march and then july and now it's november and then after november this just like two weeks ago what is it uh april something 2021 is it really april 2021 it's set to in fact it's like okay now i have to wait three more years or as long as it's going to take then what is there any sense of forget it let's let's go back to mexico let's no there's

nothing okay that's not an option i've been here 20 years what am i going to expect over there what are we going to see there i think basically the safety of my kids. I don't talk to them about my story. How did I get here? Mostly we talk about how difficult it was for us. Have you ever seen the movie

It's a Wonderful Life? Where at the end of it, you guys should watch that movie sometimes. It's a really old movie. And at the end of it, the lead character in it is really depressed. His bank is in trouble and he's lost some money. And then all his friends come and chip in and save him. But you feel a little bit uncomfortable with it, just that people rallied around you.

It has been a humble experience. I would like to encourage my Latino community to become part of their communities. Even talk to the fire department, talk to the police departments, they're there to listen. So we're part of this society. In fact, I think what is more important about my case, I believe that I want to be part of.

I want to be part of this country. Tomorrow, the son of one of America's most influential white nationalists on why he decided to leave the movement and his family behind. I'm Michael Barbaro. See you tomorrow.