The Daily - Tuesday, Mar. 6, 2018

Episode Date: March 6, 2018

The New York Times has a new five-part podcast series that tries to solve a real-life problem with a surprising story. So today, instead of or usual show, we offer “Change Agent,” hosted by Charles Duhigg, a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist and author of “The Power of Habit.”

Hi there, it's Michael. Today on The Daily, something different. The Times just launched a five-part series called Change Agent, a show in three parts that attempts to solve a real person's problem with a surprising story. Instead of our usual show today, here's an episode called Boy Problem. The Daily will be back on Wednesday. See you then. Hello? Hello? Hello?

Hi, Charles. Sorry about that. No. That was technology. It wasn't me. No worries. Oh, my God. How are you doing today?

I'm a nervous wreck. What? I'm an absolute positive nervous wreck. I'm an absolute, positive, nervous wreck. Why? I'm 80 years old. My husband passed away seven years ago. However, this past June, I fell in love. Oh my gosh.

I know, I know. This is this. Holy crap. Oh my God. Jesus, Mary, I know. Holy crap. I can't even hardly talk about it. Really? Yes. It was going along fine up until actually he's getting cold feet. Actually, he's getting cold feet. From the New York Times, I'm Charles Duhigg, and this is Change Agent. Today, we're talking with Aline.

Start me at the beginning. Yeah. How did you meet him the first time? Okay, I'll give you a short scenario. The first time I met him was about two years ago. You know, it was just a whole... So Aline lives on the East Coast, but she goes out to Washington State every year to visit her son. And a couple of years ago, she met a man named Larry at the Senior Center. I was drawn to him immediately. Nice sense of humor. I like the way he treats his wife.

I just thought, oh, he's a nice man. When I went this past June for my visit, I found out that his wife died. So I was like, oh, my God. I felt terrible and then confused at the same time. I thought, oh, my God, he's not married anymore. So to make things worse, he said, why don't I take you home? So we went for ice cream. And in the meantime, I'm dying inside. Everything is going crazy. At the end of the night, he gave her his phone number.

Eileen flew back to the East Coast, and then about a week later, she called him. Oh, my God, I was a wreck. Yeah? I was. I said, what am I doing? I wanted to hear his voice. They started chatting every night. And then? We had phone sex. Was that the first time you had had phone sex? Yeah. I never thought it would work.

I knew, I heard about it. You know, I thought this doesn't work. And half the time we're laughing, but I am hot as ever. I am just out of my mind. I am so freaking hot. Now, you must know, I met my husband when I was 19. We were married for 52 years. Wow. So I have not been with anybody else. I have not been in love with anybody else. Yeah. And I began to feel like an excitement for life.

Before that, I was feeling dread because I didn't know what I was going to do. Yeah. And also, I felt like I wanted to write. And he was excited for me, and he said, you should write. They started writing stories together over email, talking on the phone constantly.

And this went on for a couple months. But then... Sent him emails Monday and Tuesday and this morning. It all just stopped. Nothing. Nothing at all. No.

So what do you think's going on? Uh, up until last night, I was thinking that he's just getting cold feet. But last night I thought, oh my God, he hopped in the truck and he's driving across the country. Across the country? Yes. Now I know that sounds far-fetched, but he had been a long-haul truck driver. And we were co-writing a story. And in that story, he did that.

Wow. This is a very strong possibility. Ah! So she waited. And waited. But he never showed up. A couple weeks later, Eileen got back in touch with me.

She'd finally heard from him. Okay. Sunday night, I was out to dinner with friends, and he called. I didn't hear the phone ring. I went to the ladies' room and listened to the voicemail.

The voicemail said that he didn't want me to be hurt, and we could just be brother and sister. I just felt so sad. Oh, my God. Yeah. I felt shaking inside, you know, that makes you feel weak. Yeah. Yeah, that's how I felt.

Oh, okay. I'm going out there in February. Yeah. And I'm not letting go so easy. Really? Oh, yeah. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. You're going to give it another try?

Oh, you're not kidding. You know what I think we can help you with? I think we can help you figure out the strategy. Fantastic. I don't have one. We're going to figure out how you can ensnare this man. Or at least we'll try. We'll do our best.

There's a 50-50 chance. Yes, yes, exactly. So that was the plan. But then we got another email from Ellie. It said, We need to talk. Sanity is returning and not sure if this will work anymore. Oh, dear God. Oh, dear God.

Oh, dear God. So I called her up. A lot has changed for me emotionally. And that thing happened to Aline that I think happens to a lot of us. That after a breakup, it feels like you'll never get over it. But then a few weeks go by and you start feeling better about things. I'm not pining, so to speak, for him anymore. I'm happy that he has found somebody. Larry had met another woman.

And after just a few weeks, they'd gotten married. Really? Yes. Do you think he moved too fast? Like, are you worried that he... Oh. Well, listen. We're both 80, right?

Yeah. He was lonely. And doesn't need somebody and he certainly doesn't need somebody 3 000 miles away and then i realized that um i want to feel as excited and interested in life as i was feeling with him. Yeah. Before, my happiness was contained with my husband, with my children. So I am looking for another way to, how am I going to spend the rest of my life? I want to be happy, and I'm not. What do you think you want? What do I think I want? Yeah. Aha and I'm not. What do you think you want? What do I think I want?

Yeah. Aha! I haven't a clue. How do you figure out what you want? This is a question we all struggle with as we're growing up. But apparently, even when you're all grown up and in your 80s, it's still hard to answer. Especially when you've spent your whole life thinking about what other people want. We're going to put Aline on hold for now.

And after the break, we'll hear about a woman who figured out a way to answer this question. And then we'll go back to Aline to see if it can help her. Support for Change Agent comes from Comcast Business. Thank you. times faster than what most people have. We want you to be able to work on multiple devices, quickly download files, and build online solutions that drive your business forward, all within your budget. Visit business.comcast.com to learn how the GigSpeed network can take your business to the next level. Restrictions apply. Compares GigSpeed to 50 megabits per second downloads. Actual speeds may vary. Excuse me, but close your eyes. Close your eyes. Close your eyes. We're back with reporter Annie Brown, who went out to find a story that could help Aline figure out what she wants. Annie, open your eyes.

Oh, my God. This is where I live. I'm standing in Diane Gilman's new penthouse on the Upper East Side of Manhattan. I never thought I'd be able to say that. Penthouse, penthouse, penthouse, penthouse. It's a palace of fur and velvet in shades of taupe. I work with color all day long. I just didn't want to come home to color. Diane is a fashion designer. She's in her 70s, but she doesn't look like it. She's got big red hair and prominent cheekbones. She's never been richer or happier,

Big red hair and prominent cheekbones. She's never been richer or happier. And she's definitely never owned a chair as cool as this one. The whole lining around the chair are dried ostrich feathers, which one of my cats finds irresistibly delicious. But just a couple of decades ago, you wouldn't recognize Diane. Now get ready to have fun and save money on the Home Shopping Channel. I was in the backwater of fashion. And you look at yourself in the mirror and say, oh my God, how did I get to this point?

Most of us know the Home Shopping Network as the place you'd buy a Thighmaster or a flashy bracelet. And back in 97, Diane's corner of this market was washable silk. Quite frankly, it was a little bit on the depressing side. And I just thought to myself, really? Is this how I envisaged my career? Of course, this is not how Diane had envisaged her career. Because Diane got her start designing jeans for rock and roll icons. I would take Janis Joplin's jeans

or Jimi Hendrix's jeans or the Jefferson Airplane, and I would rip them, slash them, embroider them, hand paint them. I was known for making these great looking jeans. And for Diane, designing jeans was about more than the fashion. It was a whole philosophy. I was raised in a very repressive era in the 50s. I tried to wear jeans to high school.

I got sent home. They were boys' clothing. So I think that jeans were super symbolic of freedom, youth, and being wild. These jeans launched her career, and soon Diane was at the top of the fashion world. I remember being in a taxi and saying to the taxi driver, you see those windows? That's all my designs. And then we would drive by Bloomingdale's, and I would say, and that's all my designs. And then we would drive past Bonwood Tellers, and I said, oh, and that's my designs. And then I signed a contract with a big Hong Kong consortium. It didn't work out, basically because they didn't pay me. And I lost my name for years.

Diane lost the rights to her own name, which was also the name of her label. And that's when she landed at the Home Shopping Network, selling something called washable silk, clothes that look like silk but don't have to be dry cleaned. But this was the woman who made jeans for Jimi Hendrix and Janis Joplin. Diane had gotten so far away from that wild, free person she was back then. She didn't even wear jeans anymore. So I go out and I go to try and find a pair of jeans, and you go to some of the big category killer stores like The Gap,

and nothing fits. Okay, so then you start trying on men's jeans and no, that's not really right. In one store, she nearly has a breakdown when the saleswoman knocks on her fitting room door. How you doing, hon? How the f*** do you think I'm doing? I've got a 32-inch waist. I'm trying to stuff it into a jean that has a 27-inch waist. I've got muffin spill from here to Mars. I can't breathe and no, I'm not feeling good, hon.

Of course, it was more than just the jeans. My husband died. I gained all this weight. I didn't love the product I was showing. It was sort of like everything hit at once. My husband died. I gained all this weight. I didn't love the product I was showing. It was sort of like everything hit at once. I remember walking into Central Park, tears streaming down my eyes. I thought, okay, what am I going to do here with the rest of my life? And the thing she did next changed everything for her. I took out a crumpled napkin,

and I decided to write down everything I hated about my life, long list. Everything I liked about my life, super short list. And what I was going to do about it. And I wanted something more out of my talent than just designing washable silk. What do I really want? I want to design jeans. She started by measuring herself. The first jean I designed, I had my sewing room sew it up.

And did you actually, like, fit the jeans to your actual body? Yeah, I'm the fit model. They were stretchy with a wider waist and a slimmer leg. And I remember walking down the street and two guys were working in a manhole. Both of them stood up out of that manhole, looked at me. One of them whistled and the other one said, beautiful. And I said to myself, wow, this feels really good. So Diane convinced the Home Shopping Network to let her try an experiment, making jeans for older women like her.

The factories kept saying, wait a minute, these measurements, is this a typo? You want a 32-inch waist on a size 8? And I said, yeah, I want a 32-inch waist. And then the big day arrived. But there were some problems. First of all, Diane was not selling on primetime. Who wants to get up at 5 a.m. to watch a teller retailing show. I mean, come on. Plus, Diane had planned to sell the jeans alongside shirts and accessories, but... The container ship, I don't know, must have been a storm at sea, but the only thing that got through to the warehouse were the jeans. And I remember sitting in bed crying and saying, nobody's going to buy it because there's nothing to go with it. Oh my God, this is so horrible.

That morning, she got up, pulled on a pair of her jeans, and drove to the studio. And we went on air. Diane's standing next to a rack of jeans. She shows the audience the pair she's wearing, the stretchy waist, how she's not spilling over the top. And when it goes from like 25 people ordering to like 600 people ordering, I thought, okay, there's something huge going on here.

And they sold out at 5 in the morning within minutes. And that was just the beginning. More than 102,000 pair of her fabulous today's specials have been ordered. Now, Diane is one of the Home Shopping Network's most successful sellers. Because you know something, Gina, we love what we're wearing. what we're wearing. Ten million jeans later, I realized that that list was the most important tool I could have in life,

and I still go back and look at it. Pardon me, I'm hiccuping. When I get excited, I start hiccuping. And when she's not on TV selling jeans, Diane's in her Upper East Side penthouse. Somebody threw up a little here. With her cats and her ostrich chair. I think maybe we just ate one too many ostrich feathers off the chair.

Reporter Annie Brown. When we come back, we'll return to Aline and do a little experiment to see if Diane's story can help her. meeting, presentation, and project is critical for your growth. That's why you need a fast, reliable connection that lets your business dream big. Comcast Business is offering gig-speed internet across their network, allowing for speeds up to 20 times faster than what most people have. That's seamless connectivity, more connected devices, and downloads in seconds instead of minutes. Visit business.comcast.com to learn how your business can get on the gig-speed network. Restrictions apply. Compares gig-speed to 50 megabits per second downloads. Actual speeds may vary. I wish I had met somebody like Diane years ago. We're back with Eileen. So if a list really helped Diane figure out what she wanted,

we thought Eileen should start there. This is what I love. First, you list out the things you love about your life. What I love is music. I love willow trees. I love men with a sense of humor. Pretty much. I like men all together. I love massages and dancing and reading. And soaking

in the tub. And then the things you hate. My living arrangement at the moment. Not having a purpose in life. Negative people. I want to be around people who feel good about life. God. And finally, the big question. What you want. Well, obviously, I want to be doing something that makes me happy.

I want to be helpful to people. There's a lot of sad people in the senior center that I belong to. So I guess it made me start to think of hand massage. Did you ever have a massage on your hands? I don't think I've ever gotten a hand massage. Oh my God. It feels 10 times better than how good it feels on your back. But people, older people don't like to be touched very much. And I go around to hug people when I'm at the senior center. I'm lucky if I can get two hugs. And in the process of making this list,

Eileen realized it's not just about what she wants to do. It's about who she wants to be. I was not a very expressive person. But what opened up when I had this relationship with Larry was a freedom of speaking how I felt. Oh, my God. Yeah? I want that.

I don't care. Hey, I wanted this by myself. I don't want another person to have to give it to me. So here's the plan. A month or two ago, I really thought I needed to confront him and say, hey, you kind of trampled on my heart, but I don't feel that way anymore. Eileen is going on her annual trip to visit her son in Washington State,

and she's going to talk to Larry, the guy who started this whole thing. And the goal isn't to get him back, but to embrace this new way of being open and expressing herself. To let him know how I felt, but also let him know the effect he had on me, which was good. And I would love for us still to be friends.

Okay. Which is how reporter Annie Brown ended up in a car outside a senior center in Washington. It's Thursday. That means bridge day at the Bonnie Lake Senior Center. And Larry never misses a bridge game. How are you feeling? Couldn't make up my mind what to wear, so I wore what I wore yesterday. Eileen is wearing a loose black sweatshirt and a large medallion necklace.

Actually, this is my sexy outfit. The plan is to catch Larry after his bridge game. It's 9.30 in the morning, and Larry's bridge game isn't until 1, but we want to be early. And he doesn't know

that we're coming today. No, I couldn't get a hold of him. Yeah, I couldn't either. I tried calling him and emailing him. Turns out, Larry's pretty hard to get a hold of. He doesn't have that we're coming today. No, I couldn't get a hold of him. Yeah, I couldn't either. I tried calling him and emailing him. Turns out, Larry's pretty hard to get a hold of. He doesn't have a cell phone, and he disconnected his landline after he moved into his new wife's house. We go inside.

Around 10.30, we have lunch. And then we play cards and visit until the bridge game starts. And we're pretty sure he's going to show. Nothing keeps him away from playing bridge. About an hour into the game, still no Larry. What are we going to do if he doesn't show up? I don't know. I'm just thinking the same thing. What if he doesn't show up this morning, bitch?

The bridge game's over. So as a last resort, Aline asks someone at the senior center for Larry's new number. So, try the home number. And she calls from the car. Here goes nothing. They're out. I'll leave a message. Okay, I'm trying to find Larry. I know he's hiding there someplace. Just wanted to talk to him for a bit.

Oh, you're there. Son of a gun. I thought I'd see you at the center today. Ah, well, listen, would you and a red electric come to an ice cream store or a coffee shop or something? Oh, great. When? This afternoon? Now? Baskin-Robbins. Okay. That's perfect. I'll see you there. Okay. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Oh, my God. A few minutes after we get to Baskin-Robbins, Larry and his wife push through the door, laughing. Aline is quiet and gives Larry a hug. He's tall. He's got a big white beard and a worn-in trucker hat. She wants a cherry cone. His wife sits down while Larry orders. What's on there? This is scutterbotch and... Scutterbotch? Is that what you called it? Did I get it backwards again?

I must have had it backwards. I'm sorry. Larry and his wife seem relaxed. They're happy to see Aline. We get a table. They all talk about their grandkids for a while. And Aline's lemon ice cream is almost completely melted before. But anyway, I must have really been depressed all last winter before I came out here. But then talking to you, I felt so much better. You gave me a lot of confidence in myself. And I have to say, I was very sad when he stopped because he met you. I was very sad. But I've grown up so much that now I can say with a full and open heart, I don't need one person to make me feel this way all the time.

If I'm doing something that makes me happy, it's dripping. A drop of ice cream falls into Larry's beard. I can't close by him, so I can take care of him. His wife, Aretha, dabs it clean with a napkin. She is handy. Be gentle now. Yeah, so this is what I came up with to begin with.

What I want to do is give hand massages, especially to the older people, especially to the people in senior centers. You know, we're old. Our hands are... Yeah, they get stiff. And at some point, Larry turns to me and says... She's a totally different person now. She was

kind of quiet, standoffish. Now she's bubbly, forward. He says that a few years ago when he met Aline, he only saw a glimmer of this person. As I remember her, there's a person inside that is not as seen as often, but I just tell by looking at her now, she's sneaking out. Pretty soon, Aline takes Aretha's hand.

Pretty soon, Aline takes Aretha's hand. Aretha, when I told you that if he loves you, then I love you, I meant it with my whole heart. Then Larry puts his hand on top of theirs. I'm too old to be so serious about everything. And they just sit there, these three 80-year-olds, holding hands and chatting about their futures. I can't get hugs. I know. You need at least four a day. At least.

And then, we're back in the car. How are you feeling right now? I'm feeling great. It was easier to say than I thought it would be. I might not have been able to say it if it was the old me. I wouldn't have exposed myself. Yep.

But you did it. Yeah, I did, I did, I did, didn't I? Yep. Thank you. Aline went home from her trip, her list in hand. She got a lesson from her niece, who's a massage therapist. And the senior center told her she can start giving hand massages anytime she wants. Change Agent is produced by Annie Brown and Alexandra Lee Young and hosted by Charles Duhigg.

Wendy Dorr edited the show with Larissa Anderson, who's also the managing producer. Lisa Tobin is our executive producer, and Samantha Hennig is our editorial director. Eddie Cooper composed our theme song, and Andrew Dunn and Brad Fisher engineered this episode. Special thanks to Sam Dolnick, Andy Mills, and Pierre-Antoine Louis.