The Daily - Who Killed Daria Dugina?

Episode Date: August 25, 2022

Daria Dugina and her father, Aleksandr Dugin, have been major figures in the Russian propaganda landscape, advocating Russian imperialism and supporting the invasion of Ukraine.But a few days ago, Ms. Dugina was killed in a car bomb after leaving a nationalist festival, fueling speculation about who carried out the attack and whether Moscow’s reaction could affect the war in Ukraine.Guest: Anton Troianovski, the Moscow bureau chief for The New York Times.Background reading: The clamor over the killing of Ms. Dugina highlights the prominence of her fellow pro-war Russian ultranationalists.For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday. 

From The New York Times, I'm Natalie Kitcheroff. This is The Daily. We begin in Russia, where police have launched a murder investigation after the daughter of a pro-Kremlin commentator was killed in a car bomb explosion near Moscow. Dead at the scene, Daria Dujina, daughter of influential ultra-nationalist Alexander Dugin. A few days ago, when a prominent supporter of Russia's invasion of Ukraine was killed in a car bomb outside of Moscow,

speculation immediately turned to who had carried out the attack. Now, as the war crosses the six-month mark, the other question is how this attack could fundamentally change the course of the conflict. President Zelensky has warned that Russia might be planning something particularly nasty in revenge. My colleague, Moscow Bureau Chief Anton Troianovsky, has been covering the aftermath. It's Thursday, August 25th.

Anton, tell me about Alexander Dugin and his daughter Daria. Let's start with the father. So Alexander Dugin is 60 years old. He started out as an anti-communist dissident back in the last years of the Soviet Union and has morphed into this self-styled, self-educated, long-haired philosopher slash political theorist. And he's important because he's really one of the leading exponents of this idea of Russian imperialism, of Russia deserving and needing to be an empire that dominates this whole swath of Eurasian territory from Central Europe all the way to the Pacific Ocean. What's behind that idea? What's the philosophy that actually drives it? So the key term behind it is this concept of Eurasianism.

I always believed and I believe in the future greatness of Russia, because Russia was always and tried to be a superpower. It's our dream. This idea that Russia is rightfully at the center of a Eurasian empire, that Russia has its own culture and values, that it should kind of impose upon that empire. It is idea that the West should not have hegemony in defining the universal standard. And that it's also locked in this inevitable existential conflict with what Dugin refers to as the Atlantic Empire, which, as you might imagine, is dominated by the United States.

Our position is that we are going to fight up to the end in order to show to everybody that the United States is not any more unique master. It's very serious, very serious. I think he would say that Russia is destined to be in conflict with the United States and that Ukraine is essentially one of those battlefields where that conflict is going to play out. He sees Ukraine as rightfully belonging to Russia's empire, Russia's sphere of influence, and Russia needs to control Ukraine. That does sound similar to a lot of what Putin has said about this war. I'm wondering, does Dugin represent Putin's views on this?

So yes, it does sound similar. But you also have to realize that even though we think of Putin as this super nationalist strongman, Dugin and people like him are actually in Russia's domestic political system a lot more hawkish than Putin. That is not Putin who imposes on us monarchism or authoritarian rule. We demand from him to be much more authoritarian than he is. So he a little bit disappoints us because it takes too long. Dugin has been calling for this kind of invasion of Ukraine for years. He listened to you, but he's going too slow. Too slow, yes.

He has long said that Putin isn't being aggressive enough in terms of trying to rebuild a Russian empire. terms of trying to rebuild a Russian empire. So when the invasion of Ukraine happened on February 24th, Dugin suddenly looked like a genius because it was that empire mindset that he had long advocated that Putin was suddenly bringing to life in such a violent way. bringing to life in such a violent way. So the moment met Dugin, in a way. What about his daughter? What can you tell us about her? So her name is Daria Dugina. She was 29. And she was less well known than her father, but really became quite an important figure in the Russian media and propaganda landscape in her own right. She became very skilled in using the Internet, social media and television to kind of promote those ideas of Russian imperialism and anti-Americanism

that her father laid out in this very intellectual way. And so when the invasion of Ukraine happened, this was her moment as well, in a way. We can see that it is not only the conflict between Ukraine and Russia. No, this is the conflict between two civilizations, the Ukrainian part, which has chosen the globalization, the Anglo-Saxon hegemony, the imperialism of America, of United States, and we see the alternative. She was a young, fresh face in the Russian ultra-nationalist milieu and really became a disinformation warrior in her own right. The special military operations showed that the globalist era is over and this

is the beginning of the multipolarity. And she actually became so prominent that earlier this year, back in March, the U.S. actually sanctioned her for being an influence actor promoting the invasion of Ukraine. So Daria Dugina is important and influential enough for the U.S. to punish her as part of its broader effort to punish Russia for invading Ukraine. That's right. And, you know, she, in this world of Russian ultra-nationalists, had a lot of potential to reach different generations with this message until her death last Saturday night. So, Anton, tell me about that attack on Saturday.

So, on Saturday, Alexander Dugin and Daria Dugina went to this patriotic nationalist festival outside of Moscow. Dugin read a lecture sitting in a tent in the woods about the metaphysical dualism of historical thinking. You had musicians, including a group of singing priests. And around 9 p.m., from what we understand, both Daria and her father left the festival. Daria got into a Toyota Land Cruiser, either hers or her dad's, we don't know for sure. And Alexander Dugan apparently was about to get into the same car with her before changing his mind and getting into a different car and basically following her out of the festival, headed back toward Moscow. They drove for a couple miles, a few minutes, until a bomb went off under that Toyota Land

Cruiser that Daria was driving. that Daria was driving. According to Russian news reports, the bomb carried something like the force of a pound of TNT. It was such a strong blast that it set the car on fire and even knocked the windows out of the houses in the neighborhood. Dugin, like I said, was traveling behind her. So there's video of him getting out of his car and pacing back and forth at the scene of the blast, his hands on his head. He had clearly just witnessed his daughter die. And within minutes of this, there was talk on social media of some car bomb attack in Moscow,

potentially taking out Darya Dugina. And you have to remember that modern-day Moscow, you don't see car bombs. It's actually a very peaceful city with relatively little crime. So this was a very dramatic and startling scene. And how does official Russian media react? How does the Kremlin respond? Well, in the immediate aftermath of the bombing, so on Sunday, official media is quiet. But on social media, which obviously is very influential in Russia, that void is filled by Darya Dugina's friends and associates and really that whole ultra-nationalist milieu that we talked about before, where they are immediately blaming it on Ukraine, blaming it on President Zelensky,

and calling for revenge. And by Monday, 36 hours after the attack, Russian state media picks up that message too and runs with it. Because Monday morning, the FSB, Russia's domestic intelligence agency, put out a statement saying they had solved the crime and said that Ukrainian intelligence was behind the attack. And who do they say actually perpetrated the attack? I mean, who did it, according to the FSB? Well, on Monday morning, the FSB Russia, driving a gray Mini Cooper in July with her young daughter in tow. The FSB said she rented an apartment in the same building

as where Darya Dugina was staying in Moscow. They say she carried out the attack, then fled Russia successfully into Estonia, driving that same Mini Cooper, but now using a different license plate. And they described this as an assassination directed by Ukrainian intelligence. Ukraine has denied this. They came out and said right on Sunday that they are not in the business of killing civilians in Russia. What happens next? So then on Tuesday, you have this really remarkable memorial service for Darya Dugina. for Darya Dugina. It takes place at this big TV studio complex in Moscow, where a lot of state TV programs are produced. A lot of leading figures in the Russian nationalist movement are there, as are various politicians and TV hosts. And so Russian propaganda, after initially not knowing what to do, has decided to essentially turn her into a martyr. You know, one really incredible moment was when Alexander Dugin, her father, spoke.

He had just lost his daughter three days ago before his eyes. for his eyes. And he said she had died for victory and basically said she wouldn't want us to glorify her in death. The one thing she would want is us to win this war. So Anton, Daria's death is now seen as a national tragedy, it sounds like. The country is in mourning and is rallying around her and her father and what sound like his calls for revenge. I think that's what Russian state TV wants people to think, but it would be going too far to say this is a national tragedy. It's being presented as a national tragedy on Russian TV. Yeah, and I guess given that investigation that blames Ukraine, a country with which Russia is at

war, it feels like a broader question is, is Russia telling the truth? That is a very good question. And the FSB, which is the main successor agency to the KGB, is certainly not known for always telling the truth, to put it mildly. So yeah, is Ukraine behind this? Is this story actually even more murky and mysterious than what the FSB told us? Who really had a motive to kill her? There's a lot to think about here. We'll be right back. Anton, I know Ukraine adamantly denies any responsibility in the attack on Darya Dugina. And again, we don't know who did this. But let's explore for a moment the possibility that it was Ukraine. Walk me through what the motive would be. possibility that it was Ukraine. Walk me through what the motive would be.

So there you really have to keep in mind two important pieces of context. Number one, Ukraine has been behind a number of sabotage and drone attacks deep behind the front line in Russian-controlled territory, in particular in Crimea, which is that Black Sea Peninsula that's part of Ukraine, but that Putin annexed in 2014 now considers part of Russia. You've had big explosions of ammunition depots there. You've had an airbase be attacked, destroying a lot of Russian military planes. And you've even had a drone fly into the headquarters of the Russian Black Sea fleet in Crimea. So this bombing is coming at a time when Ukraine has already been successfully striking behind enemy lines. And number two, this was a really shocking attack, among other things, because it happened in one of Moscow's most affluent suburbs,

really this area where a lot of members of the Kremlin elite have their big mansions. And in that context, this bombing can be seen to send the message that no one is safe here. You know, the Kremlin doesn't even call this a war, as you know. They call this a special military operation. Putin is trying to preserve a sense of normalcy back home. And this stunning car bombing very much punctures that sense of normalcy. It sounds like a natural progression of this new, more aggressive tactic that Ukraine has been taking on the front lines. Yeah. But it should also be noted that Ukraine has been saying that Russia would actually have had more of a motive to kill Darya Dugina. Explain that. What would the Russian motivation be to assassinate one of its own? How would that be in Russia's interest? Well, again, we do not have any independent verification to back this up. But there's two main theories floating around there. One is that the Kremlin did it. That's something that the Ukrainians, people like President Zelensky's national security advisor, are saying. is worried about declining support for the war. And so they're using this bombing in order to

raise the temperature in Russia to get people riled up. It's basically a way to paint Ukraine as an evil terrorist state that needs to be destroyed. The second theory is it could have been a pro-war faction within the Russian elite, people who might be worried that Putin, who has been vague about whether he might be willing to accept any kind of compromise to end the war, those people might be worried that Putin is going too soft on Ukraine and we're looking for a way to preclude any kind of peace deal. Because of course, once Russia has accused Ukraine of carrying out an assassination outside Moscow, it's hard to imagine Russia then making a peace deal with Ukraine shortly after that. So in one theory, the Kremlin could have staged this attack

to bolster support for the war. And in the other, a pro-war group inside Russia could have killed one of its own to further their vision and force Putin into adopting a more aggressive strategy in the war. Exactly. And with so much confusion and these competing narratives, I feel like the moment sort of requires us to go beyond the truth of what happened here and to ask you, regardless of who killed Darya Dugina, what will the impact of this attack be long term? So this bombing has happened at a really kind of crucial and volatile time in the war. It's added even more uncertainty into what comes next. But no matter who perpetrated it, you know, you're already seeing how it's changing the conversation in Russia. And there what's really important is to watch the hawks, the ultra-conservatives,

who have been cheerleading the war from the very beginning. They've been getting frustrated that things are now moving so slowly that the Russian advance has basically stopped in eastern Ukraine. They want Putin to hit Ukraine a lot harder. They've been saying, where are the red lines? Why aren't we bombing central Kiev? There's even been people posting the addresses of the Ukrainian Defense Ministry and the Ukrainian intelligence Agency on social media

in this kind of morbid campaign to get the Russian military to bomb those targets. So you are seeing that that is one group that is clearly gained in prominence and influence because of this. And the question, of course, now becomes, does Putin feel under political pressure to act even with greater violence in Ukraine? Anton, thank you so much. Thank you, Natalie. On Wednesday, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky confirmed that 22 people had been killed and 50 injured in a Russian missile attack at a train station in eastern Ukraine.

The attack occurred as Ukrainians were celebrating their country's Independence Day. We'll be right back. Here's what else you need to know today. Here's the deal. The cost of education beyond high school has gone up significantly. The total cost to attend a public four-year university has tripled, only tripled in 40 years. Tripled.

On Wednesday, President Biden announced a sweeping plan to cancel $10,000 in student loan debt for anyone earning less than $125,000 a year, and to wipe out up to $20,000 in loan debt for those who have received Pell Grants for low-income students. All this means people can start, finally crawl out from under that mountain of debt. finally crawl out from under that mountain of debt. The debt relief plan is expected to benefit around 40 million Americans overall and cancel the entire balance owed for about $20 million. To finally think about buying a home or starting a family or starting a business. And by the way, when this happens, the whole economy is better off. But the plan was criticized by Republicans as a giveaway to wealthy college graduates

and an effort to galvanize Democratic voters ahead of the midterm elections. There will likely be legal challenges to the plan, and it's still unclear when the forgiveness will actually take effect. will actually take effect. Today's episode was produced by Aastha Chaturvedi, Will Reed, and Rochelle Banja. It was edited by John Ketchum and M.J. Davis-Lynn, contains original music by Dan Powell and Alisha Ba'i Tu,

and was engineered by Chris Wood. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsberg of Wonderly. That's it for The Daily. I'm Natalie Kitchoef. See you tomorrow.