The Daily - Why Did New York’s Most Selective Public High School Admit Only 7 Black Students?

Episode Date: April 2, 2019

Nearly 900 students have been offered admission to one of New York City’s most elite public high schools. Just seven of those students are black. Guest: Eliza Shapiro, who covers New York City education for The New York Times. For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily.

From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily. Today, nearly 900 students have been offered admission to New York City's most elite public high school. Just seven of those students are Black. students are black. It's Tuesday, April 2nd. Hi, I'm Bill de Blasio. I'm an outer borough working dad and proud public school parent. In 2013, Bill de Blasio. I'm an outer borough working dad and proud public school parent. In 2013, Bill de Blasio... I'm currently serving as New York City public advocate and I'm running to be your mayor.

...runs for New York City mayor. Right now, we're living a tale of two cities. One where the rich keep growing richer while middle class New Yorkers struggle. And nearly half our city lives at or near the poverty line. On this promise that he's going to vanquish inequality in every part of city life. Without a dramatic change of direction, generations to come will see New York

as little more than a playground for the rich. And his number one priority. Each and every child deserves a future that isn't limited by their zip code. Is to tackle decades of inequities that have been built into America's largest public school system. The answer is to fix the entire system. He wants to end a system in which there's this understanding that there's good schools and bad schools. We have to work from the assumption that we will save every child, that we will reach every child,

that no system is actually working unless every child has opportunity. And really what he's talking about here is the fact that middle class white students have often gone to the quote-unquote good schools, the most funding, the best resources, the highest quality teachers, and low-income Black and Hispanic students have gone to schools with the poorest performance and the least resources for decades. Eliza Shapiro covers education in New York City. Now to all the educators in the room, I hope you're going to be proud of this next one. So five years into de Blasio's term. We set the all-time record for graduation rate in New York City. He's trying to get the rest of the city, and really the rest of the country,

to pay attention to inequality in this massive public school system. That number was less than 50% not long ago in this town, before we had mayoral control of education, which created real accountability. And then a few weeks ago. Well, none of those disturbing admissions numbers in New York City's elite public high schools. A new report is intensifying the debate of racial disparity. Only a handful of black and Latino students are getting into some of New York City's elite high schools compared with other ethnic groups. These numbers come out.

Only seven black students were offered admission to Stuyvesant High School's freshman class of 895 students. And the numbers are similar for other elite schools that use entrance exams to determine who gets in. for other elite schools that use entrance exams to determine who gets in. At New York City's most elite public high school, out of 900 seats, only seven were offered to Black students. So that's less than 1% admissions. That's right, and it's actually getting worse. The numbers at Stuyvesant are not a surprise. Last year, 10, and 13 the year before.

The percentage of Black and Hispanic students at these schools has gone down year after year, and now we've basically reached rock bottom. It's abysmal. You know, I would dare say it's an atrocity what's happening in terms of education. It's absolutely abhorrent and unacceptable. So many people were asking, how could we have allowed this to happen? And now to the latest scandal rocking the halls of academia. Just as we've been talking about with the college admissions scandal. 50 people have been charged in a nationwide admissions scam, many of them well-to-do parents,

trying to get their kids into some of the highest profile schools in the country. And... Harvard systematically raises the bar for Asian-Americans and systematically lowers it for whites, African-Americans. The affirmative action case at Harvard. Whether or not you support affirmative action, I think it's an important time to be critical of Harvard and to look at how affirmative action policies

have impacted or discriminated against Asian-American communities. And this number went into the center of that storm. And so what are these elite public schools you're referring to in New York that have admitted so few Black students? So they were created at the beginning of the 1900s, and the idea was that these schools would offer students who could have never afforded a fancy private school the same rigorous academics and extracurriculars and resources that their

wealthier, more privileged counterparts get. The idea was that you didn't have to be anyone's son. Your parents didn't have to give a donation. This was a meritocracy. And the meritocracy was based on the idea that you passed one test and you got in. So a single test is all you need to get in? A single test. And who's getting into these schools at this point?

So in the 20s and 30s and 40s, the schools were mostly attended by immigrants from all over Europe, Jewish immigrants in particular. And these students are going on to win Nobel Prizes in physics and chemistry, become famous authors and writers and academics. And the schools are really seen as the way out of poverty, really this golden ticket. So over the years, these schools really become household names in New York City. You have Stuyvesant High School. You have Bronx High School of Science. You have Brooklyn Technical High School. And they seem to be working the way they were designed to work.

All we want is equal education. That's all. Equal education. But in the 1960s in New York City, as school segregation became the biggest boiling point in the city. Our hope is that the Board of Education will decide to come up with a really comprehensive plan for citywide school desegregation. Some Black and Hispanic educators and parents were beginning to wonder why their kids weren't getting into these mythologized schools. And they were wondering, can we change something about this admissions process to help our kids get into these schools and have their own paths into the middle class?

And that's where things started to get really contentious. So there was the seed of a plan to say, can we think about a different way to offer kids admission beyond this one standardized test? And there was this immediate backlash from the alumni of the schools, from the leaders of the schools, from the leaders of the schools, to say our schools are under threat and we need to do something to protect them.

What happens? So these groups who want to keep the test rush up to Albany. Our capital. Our capital. And they lobby politicians to make the test a law. And just a few months after this debate begins, in the spring of 1971 in Albany, a law is passed. The only way to get in is by taking the test. And that's been our system ever since.

And what becomes of these schools once this single test admission system is codified in the law. So their stature only grows. They continue to churn out generally extremely accomplished alumni. But now that this test is part of the state law, there's this growing obsession with this exam. How do you ace this exam to get your way out of poverty? So as the years go on, we see this enormous rise in an industry to prepare for this test. And then in the 1970s, as we see this new wave of immigration from Asia, where there's a very strong culture that tests can determine your future. A lot of Asian immigrants say, we want these schools to propel our kids out of the poverty we found ourselves in after we came to America. And did they succeed? They did.

So the schools in the decades since have become, instead of mostly white and Jewish, mostly Asian American. But the percentage of Black and Hispanic students has only shrunk. And that's where we are today. Help me understand those statistics. What exactly are they and how do they reflect the city's actual population? So these elite schools are about 60% Asian American. The city school system as a whole is about 16% Asian American. Wow.

These elite schools are about 10% Black and Hispanic, but the system is 70% Black and Hispanic. Eliza, how do we explain these numbers? Why aren't Black and Hispanic public school kids getting into these elite schools? So this is really complicated, but it all starts with the fact that a lot of these Black and Hispanic students don't know these schools exist in the first place, and they definitely don't know this test exists that they have to prepare for. And how can that be that they don't know? You just a few minutes ago said that the city is kind of obsessed with the tests. So in some schools that are really underperforming,

I've just heard from students that this is not a top priority. So in fifth grade, my teacher, she pulled me to the side and she was like, hey, have you heard about this school? It's called Stuyvesant. You have to take a test called the SHSAT. For some of them, it was this one teacher who tapped them on the shoulder and said, you're doing really well in school. You should think about these elite public schools. She recommended I buy the Barron's book and start studying for it. And then that's how I knew about it. And I had students say to me, all of the kids at my mostly Black or mostly Hispanic middle school were smart, but I'm the only one who got

tapped on the shoulder. But the rest of my peers did not know about the specialized high schools or Stuyvesant or any of the schools or the SHSAT until eighth grade, one month before the test. And that shows just how uneven just the knowledge of this system really is throughout the city. So I took the test. I think like a handful of like other students in my grade took the test. But since I'd been the only one preparing for, I was the only one who got in. So it's just like you can't aim for something if you don't know it exists. How have Asian students that you've spoken to explained their awareness of the test?

So I've spoken to many Asian American graduates of these elite schools who said from the earliest age they can remember, their parents and their teachers were encouraging them to study and prepare for this test. I think that most of the pressure I feel is just from myself. My parents are just there to support me. And the week the admissions letters would come out, everybody in their community, in Chinatown, in Flushing, in Asian American neighborhoods all across New York City. This is all anybody was talking about.

So there's this awareness piece. And then we get to preparation for the test. This test is really hard. It really helps kids to prep for it. And some kids, particularly white and Asian American students, will prep for months, if not years. How do you prep for years for a test like this? There are summer academies all the way through middle school where students are taking practice tests every single day, five days a week, hours a day.

And I assume that that costs a decent amount of money. Right. So does all of that suggest that this has a lot to do with income? income Asian American students whose parents have said they scraped together every last dollar for test prep. But there are also poor students in Black and Latino neighborhoods for whom the test is not this be all end all. And so within this basically impoverished school district, we have some really different realities on the ground. It sounds like you're saying in certain, for example, Asian communities in New York City, that this test is just known and people are talking about it and they are preparing for it. You almost can't avoid the subject of the test. Whereas in other

communities, Black Latino communities, that may not be the case for whatever reason. Absolutely. And remember, these schools were created to find the diamonds in the rough, the kids who needed a push into a better life. And one big concern here is that Black and Hispanic students who are brilliant and would do wonderfully at these schools don't even know that they're an option for them. That actually feels like a pretty solvable problem. That actually feels like a pretty solvable problem. Why not just tell everybody in New York City public middle schools, make it mandatory, they have to know about the test and they have actually free test prep for kids who would have problems affording it. But I've found that even when all of those things technically go right, they'll show up to test prep day one, take a practice test, and realize that the test is quizzing them on concepts they've never learned. Why would that be the case for some students more than others,

that they're arriving at a test and it's all new concepts? So this gets back to this huge question of quality. There's this huge discrepancy in quality among these hundreds of middle schools in New York City. So in some schools, you might be taking an advanced geometry course, and in some schools, you might be taking an advanced geometry course. And in some schools, you might be really still on the basics. So when you show up and take this practice test, it can be a really harsh dose of reality for some of these kids. I do not understand why we give 8th graders 9th and 10th grade math, 11th grade math, etc.

And I spoke to some students who had an experience like that. 10th grade math, 11th grade math, etc. And I spoke to some students who had an experience like that. But then also, like, the amount of pressure of that exam is, like, insane. It's one test, and it's also so quickly paced. Like, you have to go in knowing what to do. So in a sense, this test to get into these elite high schools, they may actually be assessing how good your middle school was. Exactly. So, like, it's just, it's mind-boggling to me

that we think that that test is, like, a good way of measuring anybody's thought. I don't know. So for all these reasons... We have to make a major change. We have to make sure the very best high schools are open to every New Yorker. The mayor, Bill de Blasio, the guy who ran on this platform of tackling inequality, is basically saying time's up.

Time for a change? Yes. Time for a change? Yes. Time for a change? Yes. It's time for a much more radical solution. The test has to go.

The test has to go. Scrap it all together and replace it with a system that would automatically give seats to the top students at every city middle school. And the impact of that change would be that the schools' racial and ethnic makeup would be transformed overnight. How much? The schools that are now about 10% Black and Hispanic would become about 45% Black and Hispanic. That's because most middle schools in New York City are mostly Black and Hispanic. So if you take the best students in every single middle school,

that's what these elite schools are going to look like. These schools will get better when they reflect all of New York City. The mayor is saying... Because so much talent is being locked out right now. So much talent is being missed because of a broken system. Not only is it clear that this test is missing some of the brightest Black and Hispanic kids in the system,

but that diversity is in and of itself a value and something that will make these beloved schools even better and stronger. Because beauty and intelligence and strength comes in all shapes and sizes, all colors, all genders. You told us earlier that when this test was challenged several decades ago, there was an incredible amount of pushback. So what is the reaction this time to de Blasio's plan to get rid of it? So I have never seen such a vitriolic reaction

to a proposal out of City Hall. Keep the test! Keep the test! A group of protesters gather in front of New York's City Hall. Keep the test! Keep the test! They chanted, Keep the test! And they marched, hundreds of them, across the Brooklyn Bridge to City Hall.

There are parents and alumni of these schools who are saying this proposal would all but destroy these schools. There's absolutely no doubt that once this door is open, who your father is, is going to make a difference as to which school you get into. Everyone has an opportunity to sign up to take the test. If you step forward and you sign up, then you're up for the challenge. If you didn't, then you didn't want to be challenged. They would water down their academics

and they would let in kids who simply can't cut it at the expense of kids who are acing this test that they revere. It is not a crime. We should not be punished for sending our kids for bad education. And then you have Asian American families who feel that the mayor is discriminating against them. This solution is going to be born solely on the backs of essentially poor Asian families. The Asian Exclusion Act of 2018, I don't know, it sounds sort of like it,

because what people are basically saying is, hey, this school is too Asian. They would lose half of their seats in this system under the mayor's plan. The Blasio is a little biased. It showed implicit bias when he said, all Asians are economically sound, well, we can afford tutoring. That sounds like a racist statement to me. And they know the history of these schools.

They know these schools were built to propel immigrant and poor kids out of poverty. Their parents decided to put their money towards that test. It's not rich people that are taking these courses. These are poor working class immigrants that are directing their resources towards enrichment. And they're saying, what about us? We are immigrants. We need these schools.

The plan to eliminate the specialized high school admissions test will not move forward as of this year, but it could be put to a vote in the future. And losing our seats would be a profound loss and something that's really, really, really feels painful for these parents. I mean, given those numbers, this argument from Asian-American families would seem to be quite compelling, right? Why should some kids who are clearly bright and who have aced these tests lose their seats in the name of diversifying the entire schools? Absolutely. Absolutely. But the flip side of this is, I think we need to recognize that the best public high in this really intense moment of reckoning with whether that's really true and whether that's going to change. And it's these elite schools that are in the middle of that shift. All this is making me wonder what these elite public schools are actually like for the students who attend them? What is it that makes them so special? So what I hear over and over again from alumni and from students is that

it's all about the other kids. There's this magical quality in these schools of you're around all the kids who want to study as hard as you do, who love math and English and environmental science as much as you do. And it's this really safe place for smart kids. It's cool to be smart there. And that can feel really, really special. Right. And I guess the question is, if you change the admissions process in the name of that diversity, does that magic you just described of being in these schools surrounded by only the best who have aced this test, does that go away somehow? I think that's the fear, but I think the argument against that is, could these schools change but actually become something better? Could these

schools become more vibrant, more special, if they were more diverse and if they looked more like the city in which all these kids live? I'm curious about this very small number of Black and Hispanic students at these schools. How do they feel about being deemed the best and the brightest, but also about being such a tiny minority there that's now at the center of this big debate. I wanted to start the conversation by just asking how you reacted to the news this week. So the day after this number came out,

I went down to Stuyvesant, and I spent a late afternoon in the park next to the school with a group of nine Black and Hispanic students, and we spent a long time talking about what it's like for them. So to be honest, when I saw the number, I was angry. And I think my first reaction was anger because I've seen a lot of people putting in effort and putting in time

to try and remedy the discrepancies in our school system. I heard a lot of pain and anguish about that number. I've been told that the only reason I got an estivus was because I'm black, even though the test doesn't even factor that in. The test doesn't even factor that in. People get so aggressive. They personalize these issues because these are your children. So people get angry. They find a way to demonize you, to vilify you in a way that makes you alien. And of course, not only is that discouraging and alienating, but it makes you feel like maybe you don't deserve your spot. Even though I know that I work just as hard as every other sophomore in my class to get into this high school. And I was talking to one of these students who remembered that his mom said to him,

you're going to be one of the only black students at this school. You're going to have to put on your armor every day. Like, obviously, it's not us versus them. Like, I think it's important to say, like, it's not us versus, it's not us versus them. It's very true that in this circumstance, Black and Latinx communities and Asian communities have been pitted against each other. And I think what it's so important for people to realize is that when we have a more representative school system, when we have a school system in which everyone has an equal opportunity, that benefits all of us. Like, that benefits us collectively as a society.

And I also just saw, in this time we spent together, this really profound sense of camaraderie that they'd gotten themselves through Stuyvesant together as a group. Eliza, thank you very much. Thank you. Sorry, one more quick thing. Like, I have so much trouble believing that of all of the top students in New York City

who are able to change the world and who are able to perform the best in this really rigorous environment, that only seven of them are Black. Right? Like, like that, like to me, it's just wrong. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. Here's what else you need to know today. On Monday, a House committee released testimony from a whistleblower who said that the Trump administration had granted security clearances

to at least 25 people who were previously denied such clearances because of concerns about their background. The whistleblower, a manager involved in White House hiring, told a House committee that the original denials had been based on a variety of factors, including conflicts of interest, financial problems, drug use, and criminal conduct. The White House is allowed to overturn denials of security clearances,

but the whistleblower said she was alarmed by the frequency of the practice in the Trump administration, which she said was not always acting, quote, in the best interest of national security. That's it for The Daily. I'm Michael Barbaro. See you tomorrow.