The Dan Bongino Show - Is Something Big About To Go Down In Washington? - GUEST: Dr. Marty Makary | Episode 51

Episode Date: May 27, 2025

Corruption is being unearthed on all fronts in government and people are starting to pay the consequences. Also: FDA Commissioner Dr. Marty Makary joins me in DC to discuss. An update from Deputy Director Dan ⁠https://x.com/FBIDDBongino/status/1926961051129508247⁠ Congressman Andy Ogles confirms federal investigation into Nashville mayor’s office over illegal immigration ⁠https://www.wkrn.com/news/local-news/nashville/congressman-andy-ogles-confirms-federal-investigation-into-nashville-mayors-office-over-illegal-immigration⁠ Biden Aide Admits Staff Did ‘Undemocratic Things’ Because Trump Was ‘Existential Threat To Democracy’ ⁠https://dailycaller.com/2025/05/25/biden-aide-admits-staff-undemocratic-trump-threat-democracy/⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to Vince. I hope you had a fantastic Memorial Day and an opportunity to contemplate on our nation's heroes and what they've done to ensure our freedoms. God bless them and God bless you. So great to have you with us today. I've got a bunch of stuff coming up. I got James Comey is still doing the rounds,

but remember he was calling for removing the President of the United States, 86, 47, he said recently, and now he's actively calling for FBI agents to join the hashtag resistance against Trump and to keep undermining the Trump administration and the American voter. We'll get into that coming up. We've got Memorial Day messages from the President of the United States, the Vice President, the Secretary of Defense, all so good as these guys go to Arlington. And joining me today in studio, the commissioner of the FDA,

Marty McCary. Marty McCary from the Food and Drug Administration. This guy is phenomenal. We're going to get into a bunch of stuff with him, including why he's saying no more COVID jabs for everybody. Enough. Enough with jabbing the kids with the COVID jab. More on that coming up with Marty McCary.

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Let's do this together. I'm like hanging with a jacked up fitness machine. You should too. Let's do this together I'm like hanging over all over that thing every single day. I love my get jacked up Fitness machine go to get jacked up comm get jacked up comm sign up for their free training program when you're ready to purchase Your own power rack Pro X use my promo code Vince and you'll save 10% that's get jacked up comm promo code Vince That's get jacked up dot com promo code Vince Yeah, baby, we've got the the Martin the good doctor coming by Marty McCarrie really looking forward to our conversation I do hope you had a really nice Memorial Day. We did the the customary hamburgers last night We had the the grill going I got the fire going we were all sitting around the fire pit We had a wonderful time again I hope you did too the

President of the United States brought a couple of veterans with him to Arlington National Cemetery yesterday to mark Memorial Day and so it was the President of the United States the Vice President of the United States JD Vance he's a Marine and then he also brought the Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth he's a soldier and so all those guys show up yesterday at Arlington and they had a bunch of really important messages and I don't think we can escape this weekend without reflecting upon the valuable messages that the president, the vice president, and the Secretary of Defense shared. Let's take the president

first, here's cut three, here's the president talking about the sacrifices that these heroes in our history have made for the rest of us. Warriors, and that's what they are, as great, great warriors picked up their mantle of duty and service. Knowing that to live for others meant always that they might die for others.

They knew that. They asked nothing for it. They gave everything, and we owe them everything and much, much more. They asked nothing for it. They gave everything and we owe them everything and much, much more. President Trump honoring the troops. You know, there's a constant drum beat, a claim that somehow President Trump disrespects the troops, doesn't care about the sacrifices of our veterans, doesn't care about the people who died in war. And every single time the president has been called upon

to speak about the troops and to speak about our heroes, he has spoken eloquently about them and he's honored their sacrifices. And he's called us to love our country. It's not what the left does. The left calls us to have contempt for our country that there's something wrong with it and the underlying point of that is that the people who have served and sacrificed it was all for nothing. It was a complete waste in the left's view. Not according to Trump. Not according to the

people who voted for Trump, including many of the nation's veterans, the president honoring our heroes at Arlington, and did a great job. All three of these guys just did a fantastic job. While the president was there, he also credited God with the timing of his second term, saying that it was only by the grace of God that he had a gap period,

and now he's back as president of the United States to help us mark a bunch of really big events in our nation's history Take a look at the president here over the past 250 years we're gonna have a big big celebration as you know 250 years in some ways, I'm glad I missed that second term where it was because I Wouldn't be your president was because I wouldn't be your president.

For that most important of all, in addition, we have the World Cup and we have the Olympics. Can you imagine? I missed that four years and now look what I have. I have everything. Amazing the way things work out. God did that, I believe that too. God did that. God did that. The left was sharing that clip this weekend as a way to attack Trump, saying that he was being self-indulgent. I don't think that was self-indulgent. He

acknowledged the role that God has played in his life and in the life of our nation. That was great. And also, it's an immense honor to be the President of the United States, to mark a quarter century of the existence of our country. 250 years. I wouldn't have it any other way. I'm glad Joe Biden's not running the show for the 250th. I'm glad Kamala Harris is not running the show for the 250th. And I'm glad Trump is. A guy who actually loves the country and wants to celebrate it is going to be in charge for the 250th anniversary this coming year. I love that. And also there's a lot going on. He mentioned the World Cup. He's got the Olympics. But don't forget, of course, the 250th birthday of the United States Army, the 250th birthday of the United States Navy, the 250th birthday of the United States Marine Corps. It's all

happening and this is the president that gets to oversee it, gets to be the master of ceremonies for this, for the United States. Very awesome. And he says, it's only by the grace of God that this even happened. And I think he's right. We've talked about this before,

but President Trump leaves office, and what is it that Dan Bongino used to say? Is it bad enough yet? Is it bad enough yet? Is it bad enough yet? That was the question. And for you and I, yeah, it was bad enough. It was definitely bad enough. We, bring us Trump back, please.

Get rid of Biden. But it wasn't bad enough yet for too many in the country who decided to go with Biden, who endured the suffering those four years with that guy in office and decided that they would make the 2024 election too big to rig. Is it bad enough yet? The voters with a resounding voice said, yes, it is.

Let's overwhelm the system with our votes. And they did. And they put president Trump back in a position here to oversee again, the 250th anniversary of our country. Wonderful stuff. The president, not the only one to speak, position here to oversee again the 250th anniversary of our country. Wonderful stuff. The president not the only one to speak JD Vans also honoring the fallen here. Here he is cut five by talking about here's how we honor the fallen. We honor their sacrifice by being very cautious about when we send our men and women to war look

Now all of us will honor the fallen and their families in our own way But allow me to suggest two ways of honoring their sacrifice two ways that I try to honor their sacrifice every day first We ought to commit ourselves and expect from our leaders to treat the lives of our troops as the most precious resource. The very best way, the very best way to honor the fallen is to only ask the next generation to make the ultimate sacrifice when they absolutely must. We must be cautious in sending our people to war. These are human lives on the line and it is the most important decision a commander in chief can make about whether or not to put those lives on the line and for what purpose would you do that?

That's the most important thing. It is really encouraging to hear a vice president of the United States, a United States Marine, get up there and say, we don't just send our boys to war for nothing. We send them with a purpose. And so we have to be very careful about when we use these lives,

put those lives on the line, and for what cause. This is not something, by the way, that you hear very often from Washington. I know this sounds, because it is, like a common sense thing, but normally America's leaders don't talk this way. You don't usually hear from presidents and vice presidents of the United States talking about how we have to be cautious with the use of these great American lives. There's the vice president of the United States saying it in the face of an establishment that hardly cares at all. God bless him for that. A great message, and he's right, we're going to honor the sacrifices of the people who have fallen in the past.

We need to be careful with the people whose lives are entrusted to us going forward into the future. Great, great message. Also, Pete Hegseth, Secretary of Defense, also a veteran himself, had this to say about who the American soldier fights for. You see, the American soldier fights not because he hates what's in front of him, but because he loves what's behind him. We honor his

selfless sacrifice, his courage, his duty, and his love. As Jesus taught his disciples, greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. This love is a gift given freely and yet this gift comes with responsibility to those living. We owe a duty to those who have fallen in war. They have paid a debt we can never repay and for that we owe gratitude and remembrance. God bless him. Isn't that nice to hear somebody talk about Christ in that way? To hear somebody talk about sincerely,

about the value of this human life, these Americans who fought and died for us. What a beautiful change of pace. What a beautiful change of pace. And three very good men getting up there delivering that powerful message. So my thanks to all three of them for delivering a powerful message at Arlington thanks to all three of them for delivering a powerful message

at Arlington this week. Totally typical for these guys. They do so on a routine basis, but really neat to see. And I wanted to share that with you because I do think coming out of Memorial Day that the whole point is remembrance. And I wanna dwell on that because it matters. It matters a great deal.

We have a really great country and we have so many fallen to thank for that. They gave all so we could have so much. Okay, let me move on now to what is going on. There are people in our country who are looking to continue to actively undermine it and to turn it into something garbage, turn it into complete garbage. That includes James Comey. Don't let this idiot fool you this guy I

shouldn't even call him an idiot because he knows exactly what he's doing here that going from that beach nonsense where he takes a bunch of shells arranges them into 8647 which means get rid of the president of the United States dispense with him then he moves into all these interviews that he's been doing it's all to promote a stupid book but one of these interviews that he's been doing. It's all to promote a stupid book. But one of the interviews that he just did this weekend with the former White House press secretary for Joe Biden, Jen Psaki, I think contains the latest iteration of Comey just being completely dangerous and pretending like he's not doing anything wrong.

Oh, this is just completely innocent. This is just, this is just political analysis. And instead what James Comey is doing is trying to convince active FBI agents to undermine the American voter and the president of the United States. Take a look at James Comey with Jen Psaki. I mean, one of the things that is happening now is that the Trump administration is of course testing the system in ways it hasn't been tested before. In the law enforcement sense, do you think there are laws that should be put in place that would help better manage this that aren't in place now? I mean, are we equipped? Is the law enforcement

system and the legal system equipped to deal with what we're seeing now? Probably there could be changes at the margins, but in the main we have the tools. There are cultural impediments to doing this work. Let's say you work in the FBI. You know that one of the two political parties is, let me put it nicely, white supremacist adjacent at a minimum. And so why would you want to throw your career on that side of the line and be summoned to Capitol Hill to be asked why are you pursuing these innocent groups?

And so we have a cultural impediment to working it effectively that should get more attention than it does. What a complete jackass that guy is. What a complete jackass James Comey is. You know what he's doing here? There's a bunch of things. One, he says that it's Republicans wink nod.

He says in MSNBC with Joe Biden's press secretary. Oh, they're white supremacist adjacent. That's what he's saying. He's saying that somehow they're crypto bigots or whatever. Understand something really clearly here. If there's any party that is wedded itself to judging people on the basis of their skin color, if there's any party that has bigoted prejudice animating its underlying principles, it's the Democrats, it's the party that James Comey is associated with. James Comey's Instagram is littered

with all sorts of resistance garbage. The guy's hanging up rainbow flags, transgender flags, suggesting that people are born in mistaken bodies, joining in on all of this left-wing bigoted garbage. That's not acceptance, that's destruction. That's destruction. And so Comey starts there by casting aspersions on Republicans generally, suggesting that the American voters who chose Trump

did something wrong because they're bad people. That's his view on the subject. And then he goes on, he thinks he's being really cute here. This is just some analysis. He's just, you know, there's cultural impediments going on at the FBI. Cultural impediments.

What does he mean when he says cultural impediments? What he's saying is that there's an act of resistance going on inside of the Federal Bureau of Investigation to stop the agenda of the President of the United States, because in Comey's view, it's an illegitimate agenda. Screw the voters and what they want. To hell with them. We're not gonna do what they want. We're gonna resist it because we have a culture that doesn't support the American voter. That's what he's saying there. Now he dresses up and addresses

this up in this absurd language of, oh these FBI guys you wouldn't want to go after one of these innocent groups. You don't want to be called in front of Congress to account for that behavior if you do this and There is no evidence to support that what he just said is conspiracy theory garbage Nowhere along the line has the Trump FBI led by Kash Patel and Dan Bongino nowhere along the line is the president of the United States or Pam Bondi ever gone after Innocent groups or they're hassling people who don't deserve it or they're investigating things that aren't crimes as the President of the United States or Pam Bondi, ever gone after innocent groups, or they're hassling people who don't deserve it,

or they're investigating things that aren't crimes, those are the behaviors of the American left when they have power. Those are the behaviors of people like James Comey, who send FBI agents after Mike Flynn in order to destroy his life and his family life. So spare us your stupid lectures about let's not abuse power,

let's not go after innocent people. That's precisely what you did, call me, who have interfered in election after election using the power of the FBI. So there he is. He's trying to be cute. He's pretending like, oh, I'm doing something very defensible here. When in fact he's going on resistance television and urging every FBI agent he can get to do it to resist the president of the United States. And that means to resist the will of the American voter. And this is entirely about going after crimes.

In real life, this is about going after crimes. That's what's happening here. So this is disgraceful what we're seeing at a Comey, yet again. Additionally, I've got an update. Speaking of the FBI, I've got an update for you out of our friend Dan Bongino, the FBI Deputy Director, who posted the following this week.

Fellas, if we could pull my screen up here, let me get this full screen for you. He posted the following just yesterday now, seven o'clock in the morning. Thanks for following this account allowing us to update what we're doing at the FBI. A few updates for you. One, the director and I will have most of our incoming reform teams in place by next week. The hiring process can take a little bit of time, he says, but we're approaching that finish line. This will help us both in doubling down on our reform agenda. Reform agenda.

Do you know what the reform agenda means? The reform agenda means cleaning out the kind of garbage that would be a part of the hashtag resistance to the president of the United States. That's the reform agenda. Dan kind of using, know the the the business language to describe purging the bad forces inside of the FBI. That's the reform agenda. He continues here he says shortly after swearing in the director and I evaluated a number of

cases of potential public corruption that understandably have garnered public interest. We made the decision to either reopen or push additional resources and investigative action, attention rather, to these cases, okay? Understand what I just read to you. This is what Dan is saying. Public corruption, public corruption, that, you know what public corruption is,

that's when a government official abuses their power. Okay, so what kind of cases, in his view, involves a government official abusing their power? Well, look right here. These cases, he writes, are the DC pipe bombing investigation, the cocaine discovery at the prior administration's White House, and the leak of the Supreme Court Dobbs case. White House and the leak of the Supreme Court Dobs case.

This is a deeply important paragraph in this post from Dan this week. Public corruption cases, that is government officials abusing their power, include the pipe bomb investigation, the cocaine discovery at the White House, and of course the leak of the Supreme Court Dobs case. Now that makes the last one, obviously, that's the only way that happens, right? A government official leaked the Supreme Court case. We know that. But if he says that the DC pipe bomb investigation involves public corruption,

or at least he suspects it does, that means he believes that government officials played some role in what went down in the DC pipe bombing investigation. That's a really big deal. And the cocaine discovery at the prior administration's White House, they're investigating that as a public corruption case.

So this is a massive, massive piece of this. I would not miss this this week. Keep an eye on that. He continues here, he said, the director and I have done our only one media interview together. That's what they did with Maria Bartiroma. We decided early on to limit our media footprint overall

in order to keep the attention on the work being done. There are both positives and negatives to this approach. We've chosen to communicate in writing on this platform to fill some of the inevitable information vacuums. I try to read as much feedback as possible, but the workday is busy. My office is a skiff. That means that's where they do classified information.

They can't bring phones and stuff in. He says he has limited phone access. In response to feedback, both positive and negative from our interview last week, we will be releasing more information which will further clarify answers to some of the questions asked in the interview. Okay, this is the last big takeaway I have for you from this.

He says that he's been hearing the responses from people, both positive and negative from the Maria Bartiromo interview. Now, what is negative? What is negative? Forget that the left says about this. This is mostly just people on the right, I think, that he's caring about here,

this negative response. The negative response was, well, wait a second, you said Epstein killed himself in the interview. I don't believe that. That's what so many of us responded with. Well, wait a second, you said Epstein killed himself? Can we have more details about that? And so I believe that what Dan is saying here,

this is based on no other information than what I'm reading to you, that they intend to release more information about Epstein's death Coming up soon He said more of this information will soon be released which will further clarify the answers to some of the questions that were Asked in the interview, so I'm looking forward to that. I suspect that's probably Epstein information. That's gonna come out so Useful stuff very useful stuff, And I hope Dan keeps up the effort of constantly giving us updates to the extent that he can.

All right, in just a moment, I wanna bring in the commissioner of the FDA. We're gonna chat with him. Before we get there though, I wanna thank our sponsors. This administration has had their sleeves rolled up and streamlining monumental moves right now, but it's difficult for them to take your personal finances into account

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in the building. How does it feel to be the FDA commissioner? Did you ever imagine that would happen? No, pretty wild. It is pretty wild. Pretty cool. And you've got a lot on your plate right away. The FDA regulates about 20% of the US economy. Yeah. And the agency has had a lot of opportunities to modernize. So we've been busy. Yes, you have. The FDA, one of the things that always bugs me about the FDA is the start of the opioid crisis is often attributed in no small part to the role that FDA officials played in basically signing off on OxyContin and saying that it wasn't addictive, even though it is highly addictive.

And as a result, we had an opioid crisis absolutely explode. And then apparently the guy who signed off on it goes and works for Purdue Pharma afterwards. Yeah, right away. So you've got to be on guard for that kind of corruption, don't you? Yeah, the agency has gone through cycles where it's been captured by the industry it's supposed to regulate. Yeah. And that was probably the ultimate low point of the FDA and you know we have to recognize that we can we can create health crises as a government, as we did with Oxycontin, that was an illegal label, that was an approval for chronic pain

based on a 14-day study. And so it was totally inappropriate. Vioxx, we learned years after it was approved that 38,000 Americans may have died from Vioxx. So we're doing something pretty cool, which is to get eyes on a drug the second it's approved in big data. So we're using AI, we're using big data, we are using computational modeling to predict if a drug is dangerous before it goes through animal testing, because mostly animal

testing is unnecessary. And so we're reducing animal testing, we've made that announcement. Yeah. You know, God did not put these animals on earth for us to torture them. And so we're reducing animal testing. We've made that announcement. You know, God did not put these animals on earth for us to torture them. And so we are figuring out every place where animal testing is unnecessary. So you've gotten rid of some of it already, right? I mean, because we all have reasons

to be angry at Anthony Fauci, but one of them was that he was signing off on the torture of beagles on a routine basis. There was one experiment, you know the details better than I do, but I remember something to do with, they put the heads of these beagles on a routine basis. There was one experiment, you know the details better than I do, but I remember something to do with they put the heads of these beagles inside of boxes and then filled them with fleas.

That's horrible. And then they were tearing up the beagles. People hear that and they're rightly, completely outraged by it. I mean, just because you can do something in science doesn't mean you should. And look at messing with a bat coronavirus in Wuhan or doing these beagle experiments, you know, they were trying to show that a

fly could spread a certain a certain biting type of fly could spread a certain infection. Well, you don't need to do these mad scientist experiments to know that and if you know it, what are you gonna do with that information? So we're reducing unnecessary animal testing. We're doing it with NIH and J. Bhattacharya. And so we're doing a lot of cool stuff, and it's an exciting time. You're also reducing the amount of medicines that the FDA recommends get injected into human beings, which is nice.

It was last week, I think, that you came out and said, enough with COVID jabs for the kids, enough with COVID jabs for everybody under the age of 65 That's not happening unless we have some extraordinarily good data to support it. Can you take us through the decision-making there? What happened? We're bringing back science to this process You know the when I got there the FDA was just rubber stamping COVID vaccines and was gonna do so in perpetuity every year So if a girl born today lives 80 years, they would get 80 COVID shots in their lifetime with an FDA just rubber stamping

with no clinical trial data every year just approving. So we said we're not doing that. We're bringing back science. We are going to require for healthy Americans some clinical data to let us know that these COVID shots are still safe and effective. That is, you need them. How do you know you need them?

I mean, COVID now is less virulent. The population immunity is ubiquitous. Yes. I mean, with hepatitis B, we say you need two or three shots depending on the age you start. With MMR, we say two. Why is it with the COVID shots, it's 80. Yes.

And using the flu model doesn't work because flu has been around for 80 years and we have a long experience. There have been 40 plus trials on the flu shot. It's a totally different animal. It doesn't, COVID doesn't mutate anywhere near as fast as the influenza virus. So how can you make an honest recommendation without clinical data? We're bringing back data.

But doesn't the COVID jabs, forcing them, especially on young people, hasn't it just been hurting them? I mean, the downsides seem more meaningful than the upsides. Well, as you may have seen in the news the last couple of days, it turns out the FDA knew about the myocarditis complication in young boys. Yes. Swollen hearts. Swollen hearts with now evidence that say roughly a third or more will have long-term

scar tissue. That is what appears to be permanent. They knew about the myocarditis complication and did not make a public announcement or disclosure or warning about it until months after when they should have. So this is the sort of stuff that ruins public trust and hurts all of us who are physicians who need the trust of the public. So, you know, we are taking a lot of steps to try to rebuild that public trust and one of them, one of those steps is to say, show us the data. We're going to be evidence-based. Okay, does the, so let me go back for a second. You mentioned hepatitis B, and I'm curious about that because I know a lot of parents

of newborns, they have to make decisions about which vaccines their kids get right away. There's a vaccine schedule, right? Does the FDA handle the vaccine schedule? That's a recommended schedule of vaccines to receive? It's actually at the CDC. Oh, it's at the CDC. Okay. But I'll ask you anyway, because as a medical doctor and as the commissioner of the FDA,

one of the things that I heard the incoming Surgeon General Casey Means talk about in the past is that hepatitis B is a sexually transmitted disease. So why is a newborn being given a hepatitis B vaccine at all? What's the point of that? You know, I think a lot of people are appropriately asking that question, and a lot of people are saying, no hepatitis B shot at birth in the delivery, you know, on the day of delivery for my child. Because it is, it's spread by a sexually transmitted or a blood-borne occupational hazard. I mean, what's the baby going to do, like step on a hepatitis B needle

while they're on the hospital? So a lot of people appropriately say, this doesn't make sense. And so, you know, I think the CDC has taken a look at all of that. I think you have to respect the questions people are asking. You can't blow them off. The most dangerous thing you can do in medicine is to put out something with such absolutism when the data is very flimsy to support it. Now they might say, we're never going to see the kid again, so this is our chance to get them immunized. Well, these are human beings.

They're not aliens or wild animals that you've captured and you get to poke and prod them. We have to do things based on good evidence, and the evidence to support doing it at birth is really not there. Other countries don't do it at birth. And also treating all of this like it's a matter of religious orthodoxy is just really alienating people. They're like, you know, people, they don't trust the system, and for good reason, because they're not treated like the adults that they are.

85% of health care workers did not get the COVID booster last season. Yes. What does that tell you? That tells you everything. Yeah, I was just, I was going to ask you about that. One in six health care workers, only one in six keep getting the COVID booster last season. What does that tell you? That tells you everything. Yeah, I was just, I was gonna ask you about that. One in six healthcare workers, only one in six keep getting the COVID jab. Everybody else is not doing it.

And I've seen some of the coverage of this, including your decision to back off on these recommendations for everybody to get COVID jabs all the time. And one of the critiques is like, well, I saw it, Stat News wrote about it. They were like, well, one in six healthcare workers are getting the COVID jabs, and then they get some expert to respond. And They were like, well, one in six health care workers are getting the COVID jabs, and then they get some expert to respond and they're like, well, that's basically like science by

public opinion polling. That's not the way we should do it. Saying even health care professionals are being ridiculous. That's what they're saying. It's always the same coupled doctors that these news outlets are citing as their go-to people. These are the same folks that misled us during COVID. And so, no, like I think we got to rebuild public trust. And the way you do that is being incredibly honest. We're being very transparent with everything we're doing at the FDA. Dr. Vinay Prasad and I just published

in the New England Journal of Medicine last week, our framework of how we see COVID vaccine regulation, basically saying we've got to get back to both gold standard science and common sense. We got to be practical. It's been four years since we've had randomized trials in humans that showed an efficacy. It was a very different virus then. It was a better match with the circulating virus. There was low natural immunity in the population. And we learned that some of that effect was transient. That is, your baseline risk came back to almost the baseline level after a transient period.

So we cannot be blind. We have to use a scientific approach. And we do that for every other drug at the FDA, right? It was cures for cancer. And it's for certain types of cancer, that is. Not all cancer. And why does it take 10 years for a drug to come to market in the United States? got to ask these big questions so we're

streamlining the process every place we can okay so let's talk about drugs and and the president just said recently he announced that he doesn't want drug prices to be like berserk here in the United States and then super cheap in other countries for these American drugs he said it's unfair. And I agree because it seems to me that if the price is out of control here, all we're doing is we are subsidizing. So American drug users are both paying for their drug and paying for some other country to get these drugs.

It's the great American ripoff. So what's going on here with these prices? We're getting taken advantage of. I mean, I think they're laughing at us in other countries. They negotiate sweetheart deals that the drug laughing at us in other countries. They negotiate, you know, sweetheart deals that the drug companies give them in other countries. So a drug can be one-tenth the price, you know, a drug for $1,100, $1,200 to the United States is $88 in London and 100-some in Germany. And so they're laughing

at us. Now, Pharma, Pharma's farmers budget for research and developments about 15 to 20 percent of their overall revenue Their budget for marketing is 20 to 30 percent. So they're spending more on these commercials where everyone's dancing and singing Non-stop. Yeah, I mean I watch some of these so-called news shows and it's basically a non-stop running pharma so-called news shows, and it's basically a nonstop running pharma advertisement with an occasional insertion of some news, and then we've got to go right back to break, and then it's more singing and dancing. Are these claims, are they creating an accurate picture of the claims of the medication? And so we're looking at everything. We're looking at direct-to-consumer ads.

Yep. Meaning potentially banning those? We would not ban them, but we have the ability to assess whether or not they're providing an accurate picture for the viewer. And honestly, I don't even know if these companies are trying to entice people to use their products or they're just channeling money to all the news outlets. Well, that seems to all the news outlets. Well, that seems to be the case. I mean, I remember Tucker Carlson showing when he was on Fox.

He showed a big clip of all of the news operations that were paid for by Pfizer. So they kept showing every news clip during COVID. And then this segment brought to you by Pfizer, this segment brought to you by Pfizer, over and over and over again. And so, but so wait a second, all of these news operations are being funded by the drug companies. So they have every incentive not to be tough on the drug companies in the face of a very important health crisis. Yeah, it's, it's, it's tricky, because on one hand, we believe in the First Amendment.

Yeah. And on the other hand, we don't, as an FDA, we don't want a company to misrepresent their product to the public. I mean, the process that they go through to get approved by the FDA includes a part where they have to show what their claims are to the public. And are they creating a notion

that if you just take our drug, you're gonna be singing and dancing and playing the banjo and on jet skis and, you know, nonstop. I mean, I watch these things, they're so convincing. Yes. You know, I don't even know what the drug is for sometimes and I'll be like, okay, I'll take it.

I give up, I give up, I'll take it. Yeah, no, that's right. My life's gonna be like that? Yeah, I'll do that. Yeah, no, it is ridiculous. But so you have tried to decrease the influence of the drug companies, the drug administration has? There's advisory panels, right, that work with you.

And is it right that the pharmaceutical companies occupied a bunch of the seats? So Pharma and industry had people as members of our FDA advisory committees. In other words, some of the FDA advisory, almost all the FDA advisory committees. In other words, some of the FDA advisor, almost all the FDA advisory committees had a pharma or industry employee as a member of the FDA advisory committees. One of the first things I did is I removed all industry and pharma members of FDA advisory committees

wherever statutorily possible. Yep. We have to have a scientific process that's impeccably independent. At the same time, we can partner with America's pharma developers and inventors and create a user-friendly process for them, streamline the process. One of our goals is to deliver more cures for the American public, and there's amazing stuff now for neurodegenerative diseases, for diabetes.

The stuff that I see, it's an amazing privilege at the FDA to see what's in the pipeline. Our goal is very simple. We want to use gold standard science and common sense to bring more cures for the American public and meaningful treatments and healthier food for children. And so you saw we banned or we went ahead with the removal action on the petroleum-based food dyes.

or we went ahead with the removal action on the petroleum-based food dyes. Yes. So we took that bold step and it's incredibly popular. What do those food dyes do to people? Why remove them? There's obviously a reason. There have been some studies suggesting that they affect the behavior of children.

There are many parents who have said that when they eliminated in sort of an elimination diet, these artificial petroleum-based food diets, there's nine of them in the United States, when they eliminate them, the kid's behavior improves and when they're reintroduced, then the kid's behavior gets worse again. So those are data points. They're not randomized control trials.

There was a randomized control trial that found the same conclusion. So we're saying, what are we waiting for? Do we want to do a randomized trial injecting half of our nation's children with petroleum products and half without and then follow them for 10 years? Also, the point of the dye doesn't change the quality of the food. I mean, well, actually you're saying it deteriorates it, but it doesn't even change the flavor it's just no taste it's just a visual appeal and so it turns out there's only downside to it it's just meant to convince a child that that's the kind of thing they want to eat it's a it's messing with the kids brain there have been studies that show it's messing with the developing brain of a child

kind of suggesting these are attractive yes you know if you create these very attractive rainbow of colors, kids are drawn to them. And so what we're doing is we're creating, we have a food system in the United States now that's 70% ultra processed in the diet of kids. And thousands of ingredients that are banned in other countries that we have all over the US food supply,

including these petroleum-based dyes. The food companies make two versions of their cereal, one for Americans with the petroleum-based dyes and one for Canadians without and Europeans without. And so what are we doing? We are drugging our nation's kids at scale for behavioral problems, for depression, for autoimmune diseases, for diabetes, for obesity, and no one is talking about the ultra-processed food. So we now have this Maha Commission report

that is taking a hard look at that and sets our agenda. How many drug companies also own food companies? So how many companies, so in other words, are there companies that are generating this ultra-processed food that are both selling the food product and then they're also on the other side selling drugs to resolve the issues that come with all of that? I don't know of any that do both, but maybe you're thinking of Monsanto is owned by Bayer,

the drug company. Monsanto that makes pesticides is owned by Bayer. But I think a lot of people look at this stuff and they're just like, can we just get back to whole foods, like shorts that grow out of the earth? So we're doing a lot on foods at the FDA. Okay, so on that, I have all sorts of friends, including myself, who are obsessed with eating healthier these days, knowing what we know now.

And one of the ways you assess when you go to the grocery store is that they have organic labels on food, those are that's your job FDA organic it says on it or and so the big question is are those legit if something says FDA Organic is that some sort of seal of approval that your agency has given and how do we tell the difference between something? That's healthy or maybe this isn't exactly what it says it is USDA does a lot of the organic inspections and FDA also but I think

it's good to generally move towards less chemicals in the diet. I think it's just a good thing. I think it's good for kids. It's not a perfect label but it does indicate that there are far less chemicals or sometimes even no chemicals in the food. Right, okay. All right, so not a bad way to assess things. Yeah, I do wonder about that. So you are being, you're talking about diet and health. It's so funny, in preparation for this interview,

I was like, let's see what Marty McCary's in the news for. And one of the things you're in the news for this week is they're attacking you. The left is mad at you for recommending that diabetics eat healthier. Apparently you had said that it'd be better, quote, maybe we need to treat more diabetes with cooking classes, not just throwing insulin at people. You said, you know, scientists have been waving the flag for years saying you've got to look at this body of scientific data and the modern medical establishment really has been

disconnected. So you said that on Fox this weekend. What do you mean by that? Look, maybe we need to treat more back pain with ice and physical therapy than just surgery and opioids. Maybe we need to treat more high blood pressure by talking about the quality of somebody's sleep instead of just throwing antihypertensives

after antihypertensives at people. And maybe we need to talk about food as medicine and the microbiome, and that includes, we have to look at everything. And that means, can we take a different approach to some patients with diabetes? Can we not just treat them with insulin and metformin and all the drugs I've been prescribing my entire career at Johns Hopkins and talk about root causes and get them fresh, healthy foods and get them educated on a lot of these issues

instead of the misinformation of the food pyramid the government has propagated. And can we talk about things like cooking classes instead of just treating people? We have a reactionary healthcare system. Yes. Purely throwing medication and operations treating people. We have a reactionary health care system. Yes. Purely throwing medication and operations at people. I mean that is almost 99% of it. And we need to be not just reactionary but proactive and that's what the

Maha Commission report outlines. It looks at everything. It looks at light exposure in children. It looks at microplastics. It talks talks about pesticides, talks about ultra-processed food being 70% of the child's diet today. Something is going on and no one has a good explanation. 40% of kids now have a chronic disease. And half our nation's kids are sick in some way. 40% of chronic disease? 40% of kids. So what are the most typical chronic diseases?

ADHD, depression, diabetes, obesity, something we call insulin resistance, which is sort of early diabetes or pre-diabetes. If you take five college students and they all look thin as a rail, just like you do, like healthy and probably two of them has early insulin resistance. And that is because it may not manifest at that young age where the body is very resilient But we've got to talk about it. So we can't just you know, feed bad food to our nation's children Drug them at scale and blame them for their sickness. That's what we do. We blame kids for being sick subconsciously It wasn't that long ago a couple decades back that it would be almost impossible to find a diabetic child. And now we are seeing that.

Oh, yeah, you're right. I mean, two generations ago, a pediatrician might see one kid with type two diabetes in their career. Yes, that's what I mean, type two diabetes. Yeah, and now it's like 20% of kids, one in five kids will have diabetes or pre-diabetes or early insulin resistance of teens. And so what are we doing? We've got to stop.

Sometimes we're engaging as a medical profession in the over-medicalization of ordinary life. The kid doesn't sit still in a desk when you mess up the circadian rhythm, feed them ultra-processed refined carbohydrates, and then they won't sit still at a desk for six hours, and we say, bad kid, take this medication. What are we doing?

Especially with boys. That's one. I heard somebody describe it once that in schools they treat boys like they're broken girls. Like they don't act the same way as the girls and that the boys get treated worse as a result. There's something wrong with them. And my reaction to that has always been, you've got to run them. So they got to have a healthy diet, and they've got to have a lot of recess. Run them. Just get the energy out. You want them to focus? Let them get that energy out.

They're boys. They're supposed to run. Yes. Yes. I think. So what are the chances of success here? I mean, this is the most unique group of health professionals I've ever seen assembled in an administration. I'm shocked by it. I'm overjoyed by it. I'm glad you're there. I'm glad we got Dr. Casey Means showing up. She's awesome.

HHS secretary, RFK Jr. is there. This seems like a once in a lifetime opportunity. What are you guys gonna do with it? Look, we have to do everything we can because the path we're on is totally unsustainable. You know, healthcare is the biggest part of the federal budget, and it's not just Medicare and Medicaid. The Defense Department has its own healthcare system. Half of social security checks now are being used for healthcare expenses from, you know,

uncovered services and co-pays and co-insurance. It is consuming our U.S. economy. It is an underlying problem that's burdening businesses and the competitiveness of the United States and individuals. And so we have to tackle this by not just talking about the issues around the periphery, like different ways to pay for things in healthcare. We have got to talk about the health of the population. So on the cost side, here's something that I would love to see. And I'm sure you'd want to see it too.

I want to see math to tell me how much money we can save if we make the population healthier. Because that's a missing component to the debate that always kind of drives me crazy. I ask sometimes, like, you know, economics guys, conservative politics, because that's a missing component to the debate that always kind of drives me crazy. I ask sometimes, like, you know, economics guys, conservative politics, economics guys, like, well, wait a second.

We're spending all this money on health care. In Washington, the only debate is, do we spend more on health care, do we spend less on health care? It's always this stupid debate, instead of how do we get a healthier population that doesn't require all of these drugs. And so the question I have is, let's just say we were able to decrease chronic disease

by 10% in the United States. What does that mean in terms of dollars? What would that number be? Maybe you are equipped with the answer to that today, but I feel like in this debate I keep kind of wondering what the answer to that is, because if we had a healthier population, that seems to me it could go a very long way towards getting our fiscal house in order as well. Yeah, well 70% of healthcare costs are related to chronic diseases and the drug costs is

another portion of that remaining amount of the budget. And so the president wants to see drug prices go down by 50 to 80%. He's sick of us getting ripped off and you're seeing Mehmet Oz, who's really a transformational leader over at CMS, talk about an entirely new, fresh approach of paying for health care. We can't just keep throwing good money after bad into the system. At the FDA, we've got to talk not just about gene therapy and proton beam therapy and chemotherapy, which is my old world, we've got to talk about that and healthier food for children.

We've got to look at what we're consuming. You know, talc was in baby powder. And then they got rid of it because of an association with ovarian cancer. There's been a lot in the news about it. So we got rid of talc out of baby powder, but, you know, over 20 million Americans are eating talc every day in their medications because it's used as a lubricant in the medication processing.

It's in the medication. Kids are eating talc in candy. We just had a roundtable at the FDA on this issue. So we've got to examine everything we're doing and asking why are cancer rates going up in young people in the United States? Why is early onset Alzheimer's gone up by 35%? Yes. We've got to ask these giant questions by taking a look at our food supply, and that's

a huge priority. So you have the food pyramid at the FDA? Embarrassingly, we do kind of own that. So we started the conversation talking about the opioid crisis. Yes. But another embarrassment of the FDA is the extent to which there was industry capture to build the food pyramid, which was not based on health. It was based on the special interests who were able to buy access to the FDA.

That's why it recommended that the biggest thing you eat is grains every day. You need lots of carbs. Eat lots of bread. That ended up being an insane thing. Insane grains every day. You need lots of carbs, eat lots of bread. That ended up being an insane thing to do. What can be done, not just while you're here now, but for the future, to safeguard that agency against that type of destructive capture? Because I think about the FDA, I think most people think okay it's an agency that's supposed to be dedicated to health, but far too frequently it hasn't been. It's actually been dedicated to lining someone else's pocket

at the rest of our expense. Well, we're redoing the food pyramid. With Brooke Rawlings and a lot of great food scientists, we are now redoing that entire heap of misinformation that was foisted on the American public for decades, ignoring the role of refined carbohydrates and sugar, ignoring the role of ultra-processed food, ignoring so many of the dangerous food chemicals that are in our food supply that people have had concerns about.

Scientists have been waving the flag for years about them. They're banned in other countries. And demonizing natural fat. Natural fat has been around for millennia. I mean, all of a sudden, you know, a bunch of doctors decided to demonize it, and they did three major studies to prove that natural fat was, that drove heart disease deaths. And all three studies failed to show that. And so they were, they didn't, they wanted a safe face. And so they didn't, you know, when the medical field gets something wrong, they don't come out with a broad apology.

You saw this after COVID. It's just kind of, they just kind of fade out, you know? They just kind of fade back. Yes. And so we're redoing the food pyramid. And, you know, we may not get it perfect, but people should know that they've got to do, they've got to educate themselves with their doctors,

with people who understand food and farming and regenerative farming, and get back to the basics. Sometimes, you know, my grandmother had some of the best insights on nutrition, and it turns out she was more right than all the experts I was taught by in medical school and throughout my training. So we've got to get back to the basics. Yeah, for sure. Okay, then let's just end there.

Lastly, on the basics, what should the average American household do to improve the health of their family right now? If there was one thing you could have everybody just knock out right away, what would that be? Drink water, cook instead of buy things pre-frozen and with 500 ingredients on a little bar. So that matters, the number of ingredients.

You know, for years, I gotta be honest, and I'll say it with a little sense of shame and guilt, I always kinda mocked this. I always mocked this as like hippie nonsense. I was like, oh, you're reading the label, the nutrition facts, whatever, all that stuff that you can't pronounce, that's because you're not a scientist, that's all.

You just don't know. And I would stuff the latest dijorno in my face, but you're saying that the people who were suspicious of the labels were right to be. Why is it that in my career I've seen people come in with chronic abdominal pain? We do everything, every test under the sun, we throw meds at them, we give them these bogus general diagnoses, these umbrella terms that basically mean we have no idea. And no one can crack the case and then we hear that they went to Europe for a summer and they're cured when they're in Europe because they're just eating healthier food over there.

Yeah. That is a seething indictment of our US food supplies. And is it true, you and I have had this conversation before, but is it true that medical educations almost include no dietary component? the the dietary side of things is Considered an afterthought for medical education. Well, my medical education included a couple hours of nutrition Education, but it would have been better if it were zero because the few hours were Misinformation. I mean it is historically one of the most corrupted sciences in all of science. Yes. That is nutrition. So people are seeing, you know, they're getting educated now directly through podcasts for with, you know, nutritionists and medical doctors like Peter Atiyah and

Mark Hyman and people who are now bringing the truth. And it's amazing how in medical school we never once ever talked about pesticides and microplastics having estrogen binding properties or why the sperm counts have gone down 50% in the last half century. Yeah. Or why the age of puberty goes down by a week and a half each year. We never talk about those topics. Just kind of relegate it into a corner of, oh well we don't have randomized control trial data on it, therefore we ignore it. These are the number one issues facing this country

in our healthcare system. This MAHA report puts those issues on the map and makes them front and center in our new healthcare agenda. There's no one silver bullet and there's no one ingredient causing this chronic disease epidemic. We have to look at all of it. Yeah, man, if you can solve any of that,

you'll make a big, big step. It's like a moon landing. Hey, thank you very much. Great to see you, Vince. Dr. Marty McCary, nice to see you, brother. I have to have you back. I want to ask you about the groundwater at some point too. There's a lot there.

Okay. I've got all sorts of health questions, and thankfully we have a doctor here in the administration. Our thanks again to Marty McCary. Glad that he's the commissioner over there at the FDA. And look, this is just one of those issues where I am glad that you have this really impressive health team who's all in place to try and address this. To really get to the bottom of, hey, what is the problem here? Why is chronic disease exploded in the United States?

Why are sperm counts dropping to record lows? Why is there so much hormonal disruption in the United States? And we've had a health establishment for years that hasn't intended to try and resolve or even pretended like they care about any of that. Instead, they've only used it to enrich their friends in the pharmaceutical companies by saying, well, why don't we just maintain your

chronic disease rather than cure it, rather than prevent it in the first place? So really, really think that this is great having Dr. McCarrie and the team there working with President Trump. And it's always funny to me, President Trump, a guy who consumes, you know, McDonald's all the time. I love that he brought in the health team. And I also love that from time to time he makes RFK Jr. eat McDonald's, just to keep him guessing. It's the funniest thing ever. Again, I hope you guys had a very nice Memorial Day. Thank you for being with us today.

I've got the big national radio show coming up 12 to 3 Eastern Time. You can watch it at rumble.com slash Vince. And I'll be back tomorrow with all sorts of brand new information and maybe a guest who can keep up with how good Dr. Marty McCary was. Great to have you with us today.