The Dan Bongino Show - The Dan Bongino Show Thanksgiving Day Special

Episode Date: November 25, 2021

An interview with Bill O’Reilly who talked about a great event he’s going to have with President Trump, as well as discussing the latest news out of Wisconsin. Next, Brian Kilmeade came on to talk about his new book the President and the Freedom Fighter, and Brian gives a passionate opinion about race in America. Finally, we talked with a person who wrote one of the great inspirational books of my life, The Case for Christ, Lee Strobel. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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He discussed also the latest news out of Wisconsin. We didn't agree on everything, by the way. And that's the thing about conservative radio. You don't have to agree on everything. We're not liberals. We don't censor people. But he came on and we hashed it out. So check this out.

All right, I want to welcome back to the show. I guess we've had before a very popular guest, our video version of the show we played on the weekend did very well as well, meaning a lot of people went back and watched it even after they heard it. Bill O'Reilly, Bill, welcome back to the show. How are you doing? Doing all right, sir. Welcome back. So before we get to the questions here, you have a tour with President Trump going on at BillOReilly.com. Tell us a little bit about it. So we got four dates beginning in December 11th in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. FLA live arena.

That's where the Panthers play. Next day in Orlando. And then the next weekend we open in Houston on the 18th of December and the 19th at the American Airlines Center in Dallas. So I just talked to Santa Claus. He says he can't top that. He cannot top it. Cannot. No, that's not coal either, right? That's the real deal.

No coal there, right? Yeah, greatest Christmas gift ever. But it takes on, Dan, as you know, more importance now because of the collapse of the Biden administration. So the reason I conceived this in the first place is that I'm a historian, a historian journalist. And when I looked back about the four years that Trump was in the Oval Office, I don't know what he did, because it was never reported. It was always like, let's kill him or let's make him a saint. So you never really got the nuts and bolts of how did he get the Vax? How did he destroy ISIS? What's up with Putin and

Xi? All of those specific things. And that's what the tour is. It'll be a once in a lifetime. We've sold about 30,000 tickets already. But if you go to Bill O'Reilly dot com, I'll link you right over to whatever box office you want. And I really appreciate you mentioning it, Dan. Very nice of you. Sure. Yeah, yeah, of course. It sounds like a wonderful event. If I wasn't married to this studio 24-7, 365, I'd go myself.

So, Bill, you do the no-spin news. You've been a no-spin guy for a long time. That's your trademark right there. The Rittenhouse case was obviously not no-spin or it was full of spin news. It was all spin all the time. That's your trademark right there. The Rittenhouse case was obviously not no spin or it was full of spin news. It was all spin all the time. There were a number of components of the Rittenhouse case, Bill, that anyone with an IQ in the triple digits could have figured out were nonsense from the start. He was not, in fact, carrying a short barreled rifle that was illegal. That's false. He did not cross state lines with a rifle. That is false. And I don't know why that would be a bad thing.

Anyway, his mom did not drop him off in Kenosha in the day of the riots. He did have a connection to Kenosha. His dad lived there. He did not shoot any anyone who was black. All of the people in the case were white. Just the litany of misinformation here. I think this promoted, you know, a sense with the prosecutor that they had a case here when they didn't, showing there's real-world implications to full-of-spin news. The prosecution always knew from the beginning it would lose. It was virtue signaling for the state of Wisconsin to bring the case. Once a videotape showed that the people Rittenhouse shot were threats to him physically, the case was over.

If you read Wisconsin law, and I'm sure you have, it's stand your ground state. So if somebody attacks you, and it doesn't matter whether you put yourself in a bad position, which Rittenhouse certainly did, there's no doubt about that, it doesn't matter. which Rittenhouse certainly did. There's no doubt about that. It doesn't matter. Somebody comes after you and puts a gun in your face, you can shoot them. And that's what happened.

So everybody knew from the very beginning in the legal circles in Wisconsin that this was a loser. Yet they spent millions of taxpayers' dollars virtue signaling to the population that Rittenhouse was a white supremacist. And then the media, of course, picked that up, that the kid at 17 was some kind of Heinrich Himmler. It was absurd because if he were, that would have been all over social media and everybody would have known it. But it was not. This was an immature boy who did an irresponsible thing by getting into a dangerous situation. And I'm glad that no further damage was done to him. I don't know, Bill. I got to tell you, I disagree with you on that. I don't know about that.

I don't think he did put himself in a bad situation. Wait, wait, wait, wait, Dan. Dan, Dan, just step back for a minute. No, let me explain. Yeah, I know, but I don't... Yeah, I get it. I get it. I'm just saying. I think given everything that was going on at the time, I think this kid, I think

we should view his motives and intentions, we should view it through the lens of what was going on at the time in Kenosha. Two things. If you were this kid's father, you never would have let him out of the house with a rifle. I know that. And I certainly would never. And I have an 18-year-old. That never would have happened.

Number two, with your law enforcement background, you know that you do not enter a danger zone if you are a civilian you do not because nothing good can come out of that that is why and i'm sure you did this a hundred times you yellow tape any kind of a situation you keep all the bystanders back and you don't allow them into a volatile emotional situation so that is my one and only point i'm not inside kyle rittenhouse's mind don't know maybe his motivations were good but at that point in his life, he should not have been there. Yeah, I don't know. We're going to have to disagree on that. I think, Bill, that he did that, you know, that he did what he thought was right.

And I think given the circumstances in Kenosha at the time, I don't think, unfortunately, law enforcement left any options there. And I think that's that's the problem, Bill. You know, you have this, you know, this leftist narrative of defund the police. And yet the irony is, Bill, when you defund the police, you leave a vacuum. And this is exactly what happens. And then when this happens, you see the left piling on like, oh, my gosh, look, domestic terror, white supremacists. And you say to yourself, know my gosh are you people all crazy like if we just would have had a basic semblance of law enforcement here even basic law

enforcement like hey don't burn down a business i'm not talking about like don't litter or jaywalk i'm talking about like hey just don't burn down the business and we'll be okay you know none of this this would have happened so i i don't. So I just disagree with you on that one. Let me move on to a different topic though. Waukesha, you know, again, ironic being the no-spin news guy that's your thing. You know, you see now all of a sudden, now

that the Waukesha story doesn't seem to fit a pre-existing narrative the left already has for these situations where they're ready to pounce right away. They're ready to tell you a story, not the story. Now we have an alleged perpetrator here, a guy by the name of Daryl Brooks, who clearly is not going to fit this narrative. Now, all of a sudden, the left's calling for slow down, Bill. Everybody slow down and let's get the facts. Isn't that ironic how when the story shifts, if it doesn't fit their version of events, immediately everybody wants to dial it back.

So you ask the question, what are the progressives? Crazy? They're not crazy. They're evil. And they use any kind of controversy. Could be criminal, social, allegations, whatever it may be. They use it to advance their cause. They don't care what the truth is.

They don't care if justice is served or a person doesn't get due process. That's who they are. This is the crew. process. That's who they are. This is the crew. And they are enabled, excuse me, they are enabled by the powerful corporate media, which used to call out extremists, Dan. Okay, when I was working at ABC News, CBS News, extremists did not get on the board. Now, NBC News in particular, Streamers did not get on the board. Now NBC News in particular pays millions of dollars to people to go on television and spew hatred for their country and other people. They're paid millions of dollars to do that.

So if people, I always urge on BillOReilly.com, we do a TV show every night and we have 300 radio stations. I always urge people, look, when you see something unfold that you know in your heart is ridiculous, there's always a reason behind it. There's always an agenda behind it. And the agenda is tear down traditional America and replace it with a socialist equity driven country. That is the goal. And when you have a president of the United States who doesn't even understand most of this, I mean, the gall of the man to come out and say, I didn't see the trial, but I'm angry about the verdict. Right, right, right. That's good. That's true. That's a great point. I'm really angry, but I know nothing about it. Yeah, I didn't see anything about it. I have the best staff in the world. It's too bad our paths didn't cross very much when we were both at Fox.

But I have the best research staff in the world, and I took them from Fox. They came with me to do the independent news we're doing. I did a search back to see if any other president in our history had ever undermined the jury system as Biden did last Friday. And the answer is no. Not one. Wow. Wow. That's powerful.

That's really incredible. I didn't really even think of that because I've been so, that really sums up the left. Yes, I'm really angry. The president of the United States opines on a case he admits he knows very little about. Bill, I want to get in a plug before we go again.

Bill O'Reilly has a tour coming up with Donald Trump. You're not going to want to miss this. It's at BillOReilly.com. BillOReilly.com. You can get tickets for the tour. They have multiple locations. Please go check it out. It's a can't miss.

Bill, you're welcome back anytime. I really appreciate you joining the show. We'll be sure to throw an extra plug in there today before we get off the air. So thanks for coming on and giving us your time today. I want you to have a happy Thanksgiving, Dan. And I like being on with you because I like people who disagree with me. I don't want everybody to disagree with me. Bill, we're not the left.

We're not the left. That's right. We're not the totalitarians. Right. They think we're not the left. We're not the left. That's right. We're not the totalitarians. Right. They think we're like them. They're like the Borg from Star Trek. They all have this hive mind. They don't realize people on the right are smart, educated adults with a variety of different opinions.

And Bill, that's okay. It's much more fun and interesting to hear both sides and then to come to your own conclusion right exactly happy thanksgiving to you and all your listeners and uh we'll talk soon dan thanks for having me yes sir you're welcome back anytime take care all right folks that was bill o'reilly and yes as he just said this is conservative talk radio where we actually have a multitude of opinions and not everyone is a is a dopey borg-like idiot following the leftist narrative of the day the perfect time life of family cost statewide you see we can do that that's okay folks that's okay it's okay to have an opinion that's all

right this conservative talk radio. We speak freely here. I promise there'll be no efforts made to cancel Bill after, right, Mike? Jim, matter of fact, invite Bill back anytime he wants after today so he knows we're committed to that. We're allowed to have differences of opinion. That was Bill O'Reilly. Coming up next, my friend Brian Kilmeade from Fox & Friends. You wrote an amazing book, but we talked about a lot of opinion. That was Bill O'Reilly. Coming up next, my friend Brian Kilmeade from Fox & Friends.

You wrote an amazing book, but we talked about a lot of things. At New Balance, we believe if you run, you're a runner. However you choose to do it. Because when you're not worried about doing things the right way, you're free to discover

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Brian came on to talk about his new book the president and the freedom fighter but we got into a lot of different topics topics and brian was very very passionate brian could be a funny very sarcastic guy but extremely passionate about this topic the topic of racism in america in light of his new book this is a good interview check it out our guest today good friend great great guy. He's written a ton of bestsellers. He has a new one out right now called The President and the Freedom Fighter. Brian Kilmeade. Brian, welcome to the show.

Dan, thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. It's good to hear you back. Yeah, yeah, I know. Well, you know, I got this battle ongoing here with Cumulus, so you know, it's tough. But I'm used to doing your show. The situation's usually reversed, usually interviewing me. And I always try to hijack your show. So feel free to try to hijack mine today. We want to sell as many of your books as possible because it's a great

book. So the book is about Lincoln and his relationship with Frederick Douglass. Now you're a history buff. I mean, did you, when you were writing this book, right, did you see all the racial strife going on after the, the Floyd incident? And did you say you were writing this book right did you see all the racial strife going on after the the Floyd incident and did you say to yourself you know we got to tell a historical story or did you have the book planned before that like why that's a great book the topicality and the timing why'd you write it now well number one it's a relief to do a book like you and I are friends you would have me on if I had something on the history of sewing. We would have, and I would tell you why I cared about it. But I'm such relieved to know, and yet sad, that the issue that I'm talking about in the

1840s, 1850s, 1860s, it still exists today. Not to the degree it is, but we're still talking about racial unrest. We're talking about equity. We're talking about reparations. We're talking about how to handle it, how to equal the playing field without making it unlevel for either side and how much anger we should have. And then we watch Condoleezza Rice go to the view and have to say, excuse me, I keep it in the segregated South. I don't want to make white children feel bad for something they had nothing to do with. I don't want black kids to feel like they're victims.

had nothing to do with. I don't want black kids to feel like they're victims. And please don't let your Condoleezza Rice on segregation because she couldn't go to a movie theater or sit in the front of a bus and she watched a friend be killed because they were black. But she led this country as Secretary of State, National Security Advisor, the dear Sovietologist in this country, an eight to two president. You can accomplish anything, even if the playing field isn't equal and even if there is something unjust. And nobody personified that better than Frederick Douglass. Dan, whatever we're going through, we were not born into slavery. We did not.

We know our parents. We know our birthday. Even if our parents are bad, what about having none? What about not even knowing who your siblings were? What about not having clothes until you're seven or eight years old? What about by the time you escape and find a way to get free and by hook and crook to learn to read and write, within seven years of getting your freedom, write your biography and becoming an international bestseller and soon a lecturer whose statues sit in Scotland, Ireland, Germany, and England today. So I'm not saying we can all be Frederick Douglass, but please don't tell me your circumstances are so bad, life isn't fair, I will never achieve.

I will never also soft-pedal the original sin of America. No one will, and I don't want to. I bring quotes, not opinion. You know, Brian, we're talking to Brian Kilmeade, author of the mega bestseller, President and the Freedom Fighter, about the relationship between President Lincoln and Frederick Douglass,

who was unquestionably a freedom fighter. That's really, that was great. Like, I really have never heard you talk so passionately about this. I mean, I really, you kind of caught me off guard there. You really, you're such a believer. And as you were talking about that, what I was thinking about all the time is

all the mythical media fairy tales told about people like you, you're in journalism, I'm more kind of an opinion guy guy but you have opinions too and it's always like oh you guys don't want to teach the country's real history you know that is that's such crap you literally just wrote a book about the country's real history you're on every media channel working your butt off i heard you tell an amazing story about freder's slave master. He gets into a fight with him and Douglass whoops his ass. I don't know any other way to say it. And the slave master doesn't say anything because he's so horrified. And Douglass said, this is when I got back this

sense of empowerment. And you've told the story. It's an amazing story. It's in the book, right? Yeah. And thanks for bringing me to that. So what happens in life, as soon as he started reading, opening up his mind and really realizing what life could be, reading about George Washington, Cicero, Socrates, the Bible, and that's where they never taught slaves to read because they thought if you educate them, they'd want more. We just want them to work for free. And we don't want them to see what life could be because we want them to think that they're inferior. If you taught a slave to read and write, you could be arrested. It was against the law.

He was determined to find another way. Plus, he was growing up in an area where a lot of his friends were white. Kids don't see color. He was convinced of it. He wrote about it. He goes, I'm convinced youth don't see color. Adults make that. And that's why, just to not digress too much, the CRT conversation you're having on a regular basis is not a side conversation.

It is the conversation because you're making first graders look at their skin. Why? You're making a fourth grader wonder if they're an oppressor. Why? But to your original question, pride is everything. Self-esteem is everything. He's pride is everything. Self-esteem is everything.

So he, they're trying to beat him and break him because he is so obstinate and so determined to matter, questioning everything. They sent him to a slave breaker and this slave breaker decided that he's going to work into the bone. The way they described what he was going through, it sounds like he was dehydrated and instead of helping him, they beat him.

He escapes and goes back to his original master. And he goes, you got to go back. I licensed you out. I'm getting paid for this. You got to go back. So he has to go back. And then all of a sudden, you know, he's going to get a beating, grabs his leg. He breaks free. They try to tie him up. He won't have it. They asked for help. The guy wouldn't give it. So it's Douglas, 17 years old against the slave breaker. He goes, I wouldn't attack him. But every time he got close, I busted him. And he went on for over an hour, according to Douglas' biography and others. And he, every time a guy got close, he beat the hell out of him.

In the end, the guy just stopped. And he made a comment of saying, yeah, I wouldn't have to treat you so bad if you didn't resist so hard. Now, they knew if you fight back, you hang. But the Slave Breaker would lose his reputation if it came out that this 17-year-old beat him senseless. And Douglas saw him look, walk away, and he never got bothered again. What did he learn?

I will never take a backward step physically or intellectually the rest of my life. And he'd be chased off stages from racist crowds, and he'd go right back up there. But you know who had his back?

More than often than not, 90% white abolitionists who believed that Douglass was 100% right and he could help further the cause to make America a more perfect union.

Yeah. You hear that, folks? That's our history. That's our history right there, warts and all, being written in a book by, yes, Brian Kilmeade from Fox News covering this. That's our history. Powerful.

Brian's the author of a book, The President and the Freedom Fighter. It's a must read. It's been flying off the shelves for a reason. Brian, I know you're busy. I can hear you. You probably got a bunch of stuff. By the way, folks, nobody in this, no one, I'm sorry. No one works harder than Kilmeade.

No one. You may work as hard, but no one works. I don't know how you do it. Do you drink Monster Energy drinks? Do you have an official sponsor like a race car? Is it on your suit jacket on the back sponsored by Monster Energy? Do you have like 30 jobs? How the hell do you stay up all the time?

It's amazing. If I was enterprising like Dan Bongino, I would have had this whole thing sponsored. By appearance on Dan Bongino's show, brought to you by Adidas. But to me, Dan, I never know when it's going to end. I can't believe how lucky I am. I love doing this. And when my kid's a little bit older, the guilt is a lot less. So what I do is I tell everybody for two months, get the word out.

I'm going up to Albany right now. My girls go to college there. They're going to meet me for dinner at 4. sign at five 30, then it's in Indiana and Elkhart, Indiana, do a, do something there and then go on Trey Gowdy show on Sunday. And, um, it's great to meet people. You know, you do your show and you leave and it's great to see people in the rest of the world. You have to leave New York to see our fans and I'm more than happy to do it. Yeah. Well, you told the story on, uh, we're talking to Brian Kilmeade, rest of the world. You have to leave New York to see our fans, and I'm more than happy to do that. Well, you told the story on, I was talking to Brian Kilmeade, author of

the terrific book, The President and the Freedom Fighter. You were telling, I watch you on Fox and Friends, obviously, I don't just work there, and you had that great interaction with Ainsley the other day about the Billy Joel concert, how, you know, you were saying how in New York, if you were to go on stage, sometimes you get booed, and then you go to Alabama and Georgia and other places,

and, you know, everybody's cheering, right? It's a totally two different worlds. Real quick, Dan, I get asked to play in the Celebrity All-Star game at Shea Stadium or, excuse me, Citi Field and everyone's getting cheered. I go up in New York, where I grew up to 25 miles from where I grew up, and I get booed.

And I go, wait a second. I mean, what did I do? Because I'm a Met fan? I mean, I used to say to myself, man, and then I go out and I go to a Leonard Skins concert, the lead singer gets off the stage playing Freebird. They play watching Ronnie Van Sant playing in the 1970s, and Johnny Van Sant gets off the stage, comes up behind and says,

join me on stage. I go, wait, you're playing Freebird? He goes, yeah, but my brother's singing this one. And he brings me up. What country? I mean, I said, what planet am I on? The lead singer just snuck up on me while I watched his concert. So, I mean, that stuff, you can't put a person on that.

No, you can't. You can't. But you're so right. You know, you do sometimes get insulated in the New York bubble. My producer, Jim, is very upset. He's a Mets fan. He can't believe his beloved Mets fans would dare boo Brian Kilmeade. But last question about your book, because I haven't read it yet, folks,

but I have to tell you, this is one I am genuinely interested, beyond the fact that I know you and you're a friend. What was the relationship with Lincoln and Douglas? Was Lincoln intimidated by Douglas? I mean, Douglas was a powerful figure. Was it the reverse? I mean, Douglas was a powerful figure. Was it the reverse? I mean, what was the dynamic between the two? Sadly, Lincoln never wrote about it,

but others said he talked about it. Douglas was a overpowering figure in the time, wanted an immediate emancipation proclamation, wanted to let blacks fight for their freedom. He didn't do it. And in the beginning, he was given it and said on his first inaugural, hey, guys, come on back in. We lost seven states. We need you back. We can compromise.

We'll leave slavery for now. Whatever you do, come on back. They wouldn't. And Douglass said, are you kidding me? You want them back? There's four million slaves. There's 350,000 slave owners. We have to end this now. That's what you talked about in the Douglass debates. Do it. But he knew, Lincoln, that if you did it, you have no country to preside over because the North wasn't exactly ready to fight for slavery either. But gradually both things happened. When they finally meet at the White House, he realizes what Lincoln was, how sincere he was, how deep he was, and what a great listener he was.

And together, in a brief period of time, they rallied with recruitment. They rallied on issues, getting black people equal to whites in the war, and the respect that they had was enormous. And I'll just share with you the last interchange. He walks into the inaugural ball after, and he looks at Lincoln, looks up, sees Douglas. He goes, my friend Douglas, what did you think of the speech?

He looks back and he says, Mr. President, don't worry about me. Look at all these people around you. There's nobody's opinion that I care more about. What did you think of the speech. He looks back and he says, Mr. President, don't worry about me. We'll go these people around. He goes, there's nobody's opinion that I care more about. What did you think of the speech? He said, Mr. President, a sacred effort. And that was their last exchange. So tell me how far they came and how important they were. I mean, to me, I read that and I get chills. Yeah. Yeah. Me too. I got to look, Jim, Jim, see, I got goosebumps right now. Brian, I can't wait to read the book. I'll be sure to give it another plug when we hang up. But go back to your busy work day. I really respect your work ethic.

It's amazing, you know, fighting for true, real United States history after your books are terrific. Thanks for coming on with us. We appreciate it. Thanks, Dave. Continued success. Thanks, buddy. Take care.

That was Brian Kilmeade, folks, author of the, really, what appears to be, I haven't read it yet. I wish I had. This is a topic that fascinates me, the story of Frederick Douglass and Lincoln. The book is titled The President and the Freedom Fighter. I got to get on that this week. He sent me a copy. I can't believe I haven't gotten this yet. That was an interview with Brian Kilmeade. Before we get to our next interview. This is an ad for BetterHelp. Welcome to the world. Please read your personal owner's manual thoroughly. In it, you'll find simple instructions for how to interact with your fellow human beings and how to find happiness and peace of mind. Thank you and have a nice life. Unfortunately, life doesn't come with an owner's manual. That's why there's BetterHelp Online

Therapy. Connect with a credentialed therapist by phone, video, or online chat. Visit betterhelp.com to learn more. That's betterhelp.com. Okay, up next, this is one of the most personally moving interviews you'll probably be able to tell at the end that I've ever conducted on radio with a man who changed my life. It's the author of the book, The Case for Christ, Lee Strobel. He was on my radio program. And you know what? You need to hear it from him. Listen to his inspiring words. I want to welcome to the show for the first time

a man who I really greatly admire, Lee Strobel. Lee, thanks for joining us. Well, thanks, Dan. Great to finally meet you, sort of, after we've communicated on Twitter a few times. Well, being that your book is maybe my favorite non-political, probably my favorite book, but definitely my favorite non-political book, I feel like I already know you. If I may, can I give just a bit of an extended setup? I don't want to take from your interview, but I think it's important that the audience understands who you are and why

you're here on my show. So folks, you know, I'm a Christian. I'm a proud Christian. I talk about it often. I'm, I'm, I'm a sinner as well. I wish I weren't because I believe in Christ. I try to be a better man and try to sincerely reform and redeem myself after making mistakes. But what, um, you know, I grew up as kind of a, uh, I, I guess leave what you'd call like, uh, how to but what, you know, I grew up as kind of a, I guess, Lee, what you'd call like a, how to be Christian, you know, parents made you go to church and you went because it was a perfunctory act and I did it, but I wasn't as deeply embedded in the faith. You know what I'm talking about? I think you've seen many of these people. Well, someone gave me

a book one time. It was a secret service agent. His first name was Fred. I'll leave his last name out of it, but I was in the training center and he asked me something, Lee. He said to me, do you think you're going to heaven? And I looked at him and I said, yeah, yeah. You know, I was a young, cocky 26, 27 year old secret service agent, whatever. And I was like, yeah, I'm going to heaven. Of course. I'm a good guy. Good guy, Lee. I'm a good guy. And he said, are you? And I said, yeah, I'm a good guy. I do good stuff. And he said and he said do you and he said i want you to read this book and then get back to me later and he handed me your book um the case for christ and it is a powerful book you were a journalist you were a journalist at the time and you and if i'm telling this incorrectly stop me you were not a big believer

in christ at all and you wanted to write a book trying to show how there was no way Christ was, was the son of God. No way. And you came to an opposite conclusion. Am I telling that story kind of right? Pretty much. I was an atheist at the time. I was legal editor of the Chicago Tribune. Uh, my background's in journalism and law. I've got a master's degree from Yale law school. And, uh And my wife was agnostic. She didn't know what to believe about God. She ended up becoming a Christian, which I thought was the worst news I could get. And so I thought, how do I rescue her from this cult she's gotten involved in?

And I thought, well, if I just disprove the resurrection of Jesus, then all of Christianity falls apart. So I took my journalism training and legal training and spent two years systematically investigating the historical data concerning the resurrection of Jesus, and ultimately became convinced that in light of the avalanche of evidence that points so powerfully toward it being true, it would take more faith to maintain my atheism than to become a Christian. So that's when I came to faith. Well, you know, we're talking to Lee Strobel. Folks, I know there's a lot of books I talk about on this. I get that. I love a lot of the authors. They're great friends of mine.

But I'm telling you, Lee Strobel's book, The Case for Christ, and his new book, The Case for Heaven, correct? I'm getting it. The Case for Heaven. That's right. That's his new book out now. They will literally change your life. I'm not being figurative.

You will look at the world in a totally different way. Lee was not looking to be an evangelist for Jesus Christ. He was looking to do the opposite and became an evangelist looking at the data. Lee, you and I have communicated, like you said before, so I feel like I already know you. But one of the things I said to you in a direct message one time is the most powerful portion of your book. And it's very readable by the way, the case for, I know it's the older book, Lee, I'm sorry, but it's such an important book along with the case for heaven.

I want to make sure I get it all in. It's a very readable book. It's not, it's not even overly preachy. It's almost just like, here's the case for crime. Like this one of the points you make that really blew me away was that people die for their religion all the time. All kinds of religions. Throughout human history. That's not unique at all.

That's not proof of anything. But you make the point that nobody, nobody dies and suffers for something they absolutely know to be false. So why is it that the people who so closely surrounded Jesus Christ as apostles suffered through the most painful deaths and agonizing lives afterwards, evangelizing his cause, if they knew it to be false? Yeah, that's exactly right.

Because I used to, people would tell me, well, you know, the disciples were willing to die for their faith. And indeed, there's seven ancient sources that confirm that they live lives of deprivation and suffering as a result of their proclamation that Jesus had risen. And so they said, well, look, they're willing to die for it. It must be true. I said, wait a minute, that doesn't make sense. As you said, Dan, you know, kamikaze pilots in World War II or terrorists today crashing airplanes or doing suicide bombings, they're willing to die for what they believe, so what's the difference? And it turns out the difference is exactly like you said. A terrorist today who blows himself up with a suicide bomb,

he sincerely believes with all of his heart, if he does that, he'll go to paradise to be with his God. Now, does he know for sure? No, he can't know for sure, but he's been taught it, he believes it, and he's willing to die for it. That proves nothing. But of all people who've ever lived in history, the disciples were in a unique position. They didn't just believe Jesus rose from the dead and thus proved he's the Son of God. They were there. They touched him. They talked with him. They ate with him after

he was resurrected. They knew the truth. They knew whether it was a lie or whether it actually happened. And knowing the truth, they were willing to die for it. Nobody knowingly and willingly dies for what they know is a lie. And so that is good confirmation that what they're saying is true. Lee Strobel, author of the new book, The Case for Heaven, and a book that changed my life, The Case for Christ, which is amazing. If it's not number one on book sites today, I'll be extremely disappointed. Both of them. Because really, it's that powerful. But Lee, you make other great points as well, that there were multiple witnesses. witnesses wait let me just say one more thing back then there was no twitter obviously in the in the days but it's not like the apostles were like oh okay man you know maybe we'll just lie about this thing and we'll die a horrible death but we'll at least be social media stars and make millions for there was nothing they live christ told them go forth with nothing they were lives of deprivation and poverty. They got beat up by people. They were laughed at by people. There was no celebration for them. That's not the way any of

this work. They did this. There was no no benefit whatsoever for them outside of them, them being convinced what they had seen was real. That's that's exactly correct. And, you know, you talk about eyewitnesses. You know, when we look at ancient history, we're lucky if we have one or two sources to confirm a fact from ancient history. So we believe a lot about ancient history based on one source or maybe two sources. And yet for the conviction of the disciples that they encountered the resurrected Jesus, we have no fewer than nine ancient sources inside and outside the Bible that confirm and corroborate the conviction of the disciples that they encountered the resurrected Christ. So he didn't just claim to be the Son of God, which he clearly did. He backed up that claim by returning from the dead.

So Lee, regarding your new book, The Case for Heaven, make the case. Yeah, I mean, I think one of the strongest bits of evidence for the afterlife and the affirmation of heaven is near-death experiences. I was a skeptic about that until I found there are 900 scholarly articles published in scientific and medical journals over the last 40 years on near-death experiences, a very well scientifically studied phenomenon. And so what I looked at is corroboration. How do I know? You know, people say, oh, I died and I went to heaven.

I can't corroborate that. Who knows? People lie about that stuff. But there are things you can corroborate to show that indeed, just as the Bible describes, at the time of death, our soul, our spirit separates from our physical body. I'll give you a quick example. A woman named Maria dies of a heart attack in the hospital. She's dead.

She's clinically dead. And yet, she says later, I was conscious the whole time. She said, I watched the resuscitation efforts from the ceiling of the emergency room. I'm looking down. I'm watching it. And then she said her spirit floated out of the hospital. And then when she was later brought back to life, she was later revived. out of the hospital. And then when she was later brought back to life, she was later revived.

She said, by the way, on the roof of the hospital, on the third story landing, there's a man's tennis shoe and it's left footed. It's dark blue. There's some wear over the little toe and the shoelace is tucked under the heel. So they go up to the roof of the hospital. Sure enough, just as she had described, it was there. That's the kind of corroboration where people see things and hear things that they could not have seen and heard if they didn't have an authentic out-of-body experience that way. In fact, 21 blind people were studied, half of them blind since birth. Some people had never even seen a shadow in their life. And yet during that time that their spirit was separated from their body, they were able to see for the first time. They saw people, they saw plants, they saw birds and so forth, and were able to later describe them. And

then when they were ultimately revived, their eyesight disappeared again. That's the kind of corroboration that tells me that there is something that confirms that when we do die, we actually live on. Now, we can't say for how long from the near-death experiences, but it confirms what Scripture tells us say for how long from the near-death experiences, but it confirms what Scripture tells us about the soul separating from the body. We're talking to Lee Strobel, a guy who, like I said, changed my life, and that's not meant to be hyperbolic. Again, his book, The Case for Christ, changed everything with me. And his new book, The Case for Heaven. Dan, I can't tell you how that makes me feel. Honestly, that just blows me away.

I'm so thrilled with how God used that book in your life. I just, I just can't even express how much that means to me. Listen, um, I was a skeptic and I apologize to Christ and God every day about it. I just was, I mean, I, you know, when I was a kid, I thought I was smarter than everyone else. And I went to school and, you know, and I thought science could explain everything.

And I said, oh, there's God, come on. This is all fairy tales and voodoo. And I would go to church because someone told me to. And I figured, ah, better not to chance it, right? I mean, if there's a God, if I do it and not understanding that just going through the motions isn't enough and then when i read your book and i i in the original book the case for christ and i and i i heard you lay out the case again and not you're not trying

to be a smart wise guy academic about it you just laid out the case in a very matter-of-fact way that hey i wasn't a believer either. I was a journalist. I didn't believe in any of this, but here's what I found. And these are the facts and they speak for themselves. And if you read this, it speaks for some, you don't, it's right there in front of you. I was so moved and taken aback by it. And I ran into another book later on. I'm a guy, Hugh Hugh Ross wrote this book why the universe is the way it is he's he's an astrophysicist and he kind of does the same thing you do where he just goes through the astrophysics of the universe and it's like this isn't possible without a god there's no

way and it just really convinced me Leah you know and and I'm so glad that my life has more meaning since you introduced me to a side of it I didn't know existed. That is just so awesome. And there were so many people who've done the same thing. You know, look at Jay Warner Wallace. He was a Colgate case homicide investigator in L.A. and an atheist. And he uses detective skills to investigate the New Testament to try to determine, is it telling me the truth? And came to faith and is now a professor of apologetics, which is the evidence, you know, giving evidence for the faith at a university. So there's so many people who've gone through that process. Simon Greenleaf, who founded Harvard Law School.

So many. Sir Lionel Luck, who the most successful defense attorney in the world, became a believer in the resurrection because he applied his legal skills to investigating the historical evidence and became convinced it was true. Lee, Jim, do me a favor. I'd like to set up another interview right around Christmas. I think one people need to read your book, but I just think during the holiday season, listen folks, whether you choose to believe or not, I feel an obligation to put this information in front of you. Whether you choose to

run with it or not is up to you. That's what Fred did to me, that Secret Service agent. He gave me the book. He didn't demand I read it. He bought it for me and said, one of these days you'll look at this. And I want you to know, I got to run, Lee, unfortunately, but when I taught CCD with my wife, we bought copies for every single one of those kids. And I said the same thing, just keep it.

And one of these days you'll crack this book and it'll change your life. So Lee Strobel, thank you so much, folks. Please go out and pick up both of his books, his new book, The Case for Heaven, and a book that changed my life, The Case for Christ. It'll change yours too. Lee, thanks for joining us. And we'll talk to you again around Christmas. Thanks, Dan.

Appreciate you and all your listeners. Thank you, sir. We appreciate it. Lee Strobel, folks. Read that book. Change everything for you. Definitely changed it for me. I hope that moved you as much as it moved me.

That was our interview with Lee Strobel. That book, The Case for Christ, and his new book, The Case for Heaven. If there was ever a must-read, that's it. Please check it out. Thanks for tuning in today. You can hear me every weekday across the country on over 300 radio stations. Go to Bongino.com and click on Station Finder to find out where I'm on near you. And I always appreciate you listening to the podcast as well.

Thanks for listening. You just heard Dan Bongino.