The Dan Bongino Show - The Trump 2020 Campaign: An Interview with Jenna Ellis (Ep 1291)

Episode Date: July 3, 2020

In this episode, I interview Trump 2020 campaign legal advisor Jenna Ellis about the state of the campaign. Copyright Bongino Inc All Rights Reserved. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Dan Bongino. Welcome to the Dan Bongino Show interview series. Today's guest is going to be Jenna Ellis, senior legal advisor to President Trump on the campaign. It's a fascinating interview. We always tape the intros afterwards, as I always tell you. A lot of great questions here about polling, other things, where the campaign is going, messaging-wise, what are the chances of winning. A lot of good stuff. Today's show brought to you by friends at ExpressVPN. Surf the web with peace of mind.

Get a VPN today. Go to expressvpn.com slash Bongino. I think you're really going to enjoy this interview. We had a lot of topics, so stay tuned. Before we get to that, let's get to our sponsors. Today's show also brought to you by our friends at Helix Sleep. Helix Sleep is a quiz. It takes just two minutes to complete.

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mattress order today. Go today. Helix, H-E-L-I-X, sleep.com. Now, without further ado, our good friend, Jenna Ellis. All right, welcome to the Dan Bongino Show interview series. Happy to welcome my good friend, Jenna Ellis. Jenna is the senior legal advisor for the Trump campaign and a senior fellow at the Falkirk Center for Faith and Liberty. Her Twitter handle is at Jenna Ellis ESQ. Jenna, welcome to the program. Honored to have you here today. Thanks so much, Dan. And I'm on Parler too, because you recommended that and it's a great platform. So definitely follow me there too. Parler, I am one of the owners there. I appreciate that. Thank you very much. Thanks for reminding me. This social media era here. Yeah, that's a big fight.

Maybe for another conversation you and I will have. But Jenna, let me get right into it. So you're intimately involved with the campaign, obviously being their senior legal advisor. We're hearing a lot about the polls. We've been told by the media. And to be fair, they were wrong in 2016, most of them, on poll predictions based on President Trump's performance in 2016. They obviously were made to look foolish, but we're being told with the polls now that President Trump is going to lose. He's going to lose badly, potentially by double digits. What's the campaign

think about the polls? Are the polls right? Are the polls wrong? And if they're wrong, why do you think they're wrong? Yeah, so, well, I personally don't put much stock in the polls because we saw, as you mentioned, in 2016, the polls were just driven by the media to advance this narrative to suppress the motivation behind the president. adults, not even registered voters or likely voters. And they'll also diminish the Republican percentage of the turnout. And they'll also gear the questions toward a manufactured outcome. So the polls can be manipulated in so many different ways, just to say that somehow there was some kind of motivation behind Joe Biden. And the polls don't really reflect reality. I mean, if you see how much support and motivation is actually behind President Trump, nobody is sitting here going, I am so excited to vote for Joe Biden. It's all about the motivation behind President Trump. So our internal polls, which we actually care at the campaign about fact

and truth, we want to know exactly where we stand. We want to know what voters are thinking, what's most important to them. So our internal polls of the campaign show a very different story and actually show the sincere motivation behind President Trump, especially with the black vote, with suburban women, with so many different categories of voters that really care substantively about the issues heading into 2020, but also what President Trump has done with all of his accomplishments over the last three and a half years. That does matter to everyone. So we don't take a whole lot of stock in the media polls. And to your second question, really the reason for that is the media is trying, like they did in 2016, to drive this narrative, like that ridiculous story that actually Fox News put out to say that somehow President Trump is getting so discouraged he might actually drop out before the election.

That's ridiculous. I mean, I talk to him on a regular basis. He's so excited about the reelection campaign. He's really excited ahead for the next four years. That kind of narrative is just to put it out there to shape public perception in a way that's fundamentally false. just to put it out there to shape public perception in a way that's fundamentally false. So, folks, listen, I know I know Jenna well, and Jenna's not kidding. She has a direct communication link with the president. It's not her patting herself on the back. It's just important for the sake of this interview. So you understand when Jenna's citing, you know, a story about alleged sources inside the campaign, she is one of those people inside the campaign.

So just to be clear, because at the end, that story got a lot of traction. There is no talk whatsoever of Mr. Trump, President Trump dropping out of this race. Not at all. I mean, it's so ridiculous to say, oh, sources cited, where of course, you know,

we understand that journalism, you can protect your sources, but that also allows some fake news media outlets to manufacture sources or to just get it a little bit wrong or to advance a narrative. But in this case, that story was completely false. And so there's no talk inside the campaign at all. We are all really excited about the reelection. And again, you know, President Trump's mindset, everyone in the journalistic community or these, as I call them, activists, because that's really what they are. They are. Yeah. Yeah. They're fake news. And they just want to pretend that they can get inside the mind of the president.

They don't have access directly to him. They're not talking to him on a regular basis. This is their own propaganda that they're trying to pretend is fact and truth and hoping that you'll buy it. President Trump is not going to drop out. He's very excited. He's motivated. He's very positive looking into 2020. I just spoke with him a few times this week, and he's really looking forward to getting

back on the campaign trail. He loved the Tulsa event in Arizona. I was with him in Arizona. That was a great event to students in particular who loved it. You saw the motivation there. And so, you know, the camera doesn't lie. And when you see the audience that is so excited and the motivation behind this, you see him walk out proud to be an American, that song, and you see how much energy and enthusiasm he has. That's the real story. Yeah. Let me ask you this, though. I go both ways on this with the polling. Having run for office three times myself, I saw the weakness in the polling in 2016. Regular listeners to my show have heard this

story a thousand times. The Reader's Digest version is this. I was knocking on a lot of doors of hardcore Republican voters because I was competing in a Republican primary for Congress. Every other door had a Trump sign, yet they weren't on my list. So I started knocking on the doors of people with Trump signs who weren't on my list of registered Republican voters. And I'd say, hey, you got a Trump sign. You never voted before. And they'd say, nope, never. But I'm voting now, which was an obvious reason why the polling was so off in 2016. People who weren't ever showing up in a poll as a registered or even likely voter or vice versa, I should say, they weren't showing up. But let me give you the kind of the con and the pro here. The con here is I'm a little worried about the polls this time, Jenna, just being candid, because those people are going to show up in 2020

because they voted in 2016. So they're either going to be registered or likely. There's no way around that. So we're not going to miss them. So I'd just like to get your take on that. But let me give you the pro side as well. The pro side, why these polls, I think, may be way off. I was reading an interesting piece in Politico or something. Forgive me. Even once in a while, I read fake news, too. But they did make an interesting point. They said that white college educated men and white college, non-college educated, high school diploma, whatever it may be, men, that the disparities in their voting patterns were usually really slim. patterns were usually really slim. So if you got the percentages wrong about who was going to show up in a poll, white college educated men or white high school educated men, it's a big body of the electorate, obviously. It didn't really affect the poll that much. But the article said that's not the case this time, that President Trump pretty much dominates amongst people with a high school diploma. And with college educated, it doesn't do badly, but not as well. So just kind of like the pros and cons about that.

I don't want President Trump to gaffe off the polls either. You get what I'm saying? Like, we need to look at both sides. Yeah, absolutely. And I think it is true that, you know, there are some ways that you can look at the polls and at least get some quality information, but it's just one piece of information. It doesn't paint the entire picture. And he does do well across demographics. And we see that again internally. information, but it's just one piece of information. It doesn't paint the entire picture.

And he does do well across demographics. And we see that again internally. And internally, our polls and the way that we construct our polls and we actually ask all of these questions are designed to give us a better, more clear picture of what's really going on, where the fake news media polls are manipulated and designed for an outcome that's adverse to the president. So that's really a difference. I mean, you have to look at how many people were actually sampled, were they registered or even likely voters? And what percentage was Republican? I mean, you have to look at all of the crosstabs. And I mean, if you're not a polling expert expert and you don't really understand all of that data, then just the sheer headline and the outcome is what they're trying to get you to go for. So while, you know, of course, there are differences and slight ups and downs on any given day among a particular demographic, well, that may be, there may be some truth to

that. The overall picture is that the motivation behind this president in 2016, the people who showed up for the first time, they're going to vote for him again. But what we've seen at the rallies and the rallies actually give us really interesting data as well, is that even in my home state, one of the last rallies we did before the coronavirus was in February. And there was 18 percent of the people who came as Trump supporters were actually registered Democrats. And so I think that there's also been a huge conversion rate, because you don't see the motivation behind Joe Biden, like you did with Hillary Clinton. She was a completely love or hate candidate. You kind of see this indifference with Joe Biden. And so the people who are actually paying attention, the reasonable, genuinely moderate Democrats are saying, you kind of see this indifference with Joe Biden. And so the people who are actually paying attention, the reasonable, genuinely moderate Democrats are saying, you know what,

he built a great economy. He actually gave the First Step Act. He actually cares about the issues that all Americans, regardless of party, care about. So I think we're going to see even a wider swath of registered Democrats that are going to vote for President Trump because they've seen that he's a man of his word and he has made those promises. He's kept those promises. And especially everyone wants this economy to bounce back. We all know Joe Biden can't do that. That's going to be a huge issue moving forward. And so I think even looking at the Democrats and of course, the big news media is not going to pull. board. And so I think even looking at the Democrats and of course, the big news media is not going to pull. Those are the ones I think that we're going to see a huge and wider margin for the president

in 2020. But do you think that apathy about Joe Biden, which listen, let's just talk turkey here, is absolutely there. Nobody is excited about Joe Biden and no one. I'm serious. I mean, even Joe Biden's best friends and neighbors are not excited about a Biden presidency. This is clearly the Democrats saying, we just don't like Trump. This guy won. He's a placeholder. And we'll get back to business. We'll let Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi run the country if he wins.

That's clearly what's going on right now. Having said that, you would think that would be a positive for President Trump. I don't see it that way, though, Jenna. I see it that in 2016, you're right. Hillary Clinton was reviled. I mean, just a horrible campaigner, you know, deplorable. We heard all of it, you know, that all you deplorables and basket of deplorables, just people really couldn't stand Hillary, even a good swath of Democrats. But do you think that apathy about Joe Biden, where it's not like that no one really dislikes him, but no one likes him either. Do you think that may hurt you? And forgive me to layer these questions, but in light of the fact

that, you know, President Trump, there's been some criticism lately that the message for the reelect has been kind of muddled. He's been getting a lot of criticism over the Sean Hannity interview where when he was asked about the platform, the answer appeared a little bit muddled. So do you think that was kind of the apathy factor and the muddled message a bit or, you know, what he's been accusing, maybe hurting him a little bit? Yeah, well, you know, I think that you're definitely right about the apathy towards Joe Biden. That is that's not even a question. I mean, we see that so clearly. And I think that that is a double edged sword, because, you know, when you have a strong villain, really like Hillary, there is motivation for a lot of people to come out to vote against her.

Right. So that was a huge motivation in 2016. I mean, when I didn't know the president, I didn't know him personally in 2016. I voted for him as a hope that he would fulfill his promises. And I was a strong supporter of him. But I also really did not want Hillary Clinton to win. And so that was also a factor, I think, for a lot of conservatives that we don't see with Biden. And so that apathy, I think, is a double-edged sword. But what Americans have to recognize, especially conservatives, is while you may be apathetic toward Joe Biden, look at the people who he is going to put in place in his administration.

You have Beto O'Rourke who's saying, well, the police are going to come and take away your guns. And, you know, an AOC who wants to be in charge of climate change, who wants to put Elizabeth Warren at the head of the Treasury. I mean, these are all people that fundamentally we can you know, an AOC who wants to be in charge of climate change, who wants to put Elizabeth Warren at the head of the Treasury. I mean, these are all people that fundamentally we can viscerally react to the same way as Hillary Clinton. To say that they are such progressive leftists, we never want them to touch powerful positions in government ever. I mean, hopefully they'll get out of government soon because they're not fulfilling their oath of office to preserve and protect the rights that God our creator endowed in us and that our declaration fundamentally recognizes that we're going to be celebrated this weekend.

So when you look at Joe Biden, you can't just be apathetic toward him as a candidate. You have to look at his entire scope of what would be his administration. And that, I think, is the message that the campaign needs to put out even more strongly. It's not just attacking Joe Biden and trying to have a campaign message around him, but to say this is entirely about the Democrat, extremist, Marxist, leftist, anti-freedom, anti-liberty party. And that I think conservatives do viscerally react to. And that's the message that President Trump, I think, moving forward over the next four months. Absolutely. We need to do a better job at the campaign with messaging that very clearly, because what you saw in the Sean Hannity interview and knowing the president,

knowing more of the kind of the behind the scenes stuff, when he responded to Sean Hannity with talking about over the next four years, he was clearly talking about staffing. And his platform of drain the swamp was so important because he came in, Dan, as a citizen president. And that's so important for everyone to realize that we have over the last, you know, 100 years or more of American history, we've elected presidents who've either been war veterans, who have risen up through governorships

or being a senator, they've had some connection with government before. But our founders, in their wisdom, designed the office of the president to be a citizen. Not that, you know, you can't have that expertise or that background and that experience, but you don't have to. And the reason for that is because President Trump, for this moment, is exactly what the founders envisioned, that he came in in 2016 and he said, why are we doing all of this? Why are we spending money over here? Why are we committing our assets? Why aren't we re-evaluating our trade deals? Wait, can I stop you though, Jenna? This is important because the president has a tremendous, tremendous record to run on. I mean, I'd make the case maybe outside of the

debt, which has exploded. And obviously the coronavirus is added to that. But outside of the debt, which, listen, I don't like debt, whether you're a Republican or a Democrat, doesn't matter to me. Tax cuts, judges, regulatory reform, initiatives in the black community, which GOP has been largely absent on forever. which GOP has been largely absent on forever, school choice, education reforms. I mean, the president's record is tremendous. Listen, I'm a conservative. It's not a secret. I'm not even pretending to be objective here, but my best attempt to pull myself out of it. The record is incredible. If it wasn't, the Democrats wouldn't be so upset.

I mean, think about it, right? They hate this, obviously a lot of it's personality driven, but they hate this president so much because it's not just his personality and the bravado and the, whatever they perceive as brashness is because he actually got stuff done. So that's what, I don't want to say I'm worried because I know I've spoken to the president, but not as much as you, not nearly as much, but it's clear to me, he gets it. But I'm just concerned that with due respect to you and the campaign, the campaign understands too that they've really got to nail this down, that is our message going to be, here's what we did, and this is going to be another four years of this leading to even better outcomes in the future. They've got to really, you know, nail that down because it's not me or you that need to be

convinced we get it like i know exactly what the president did and what he wants to do but there are some independents out there who don't do what we do you know they're not in front of fox 24 hours a day and on twitter and parlor and facial facebook and reading you know breitbart conservative review and you know that kind of stuff they don't get they need to hear it. And that's what has me a tiny kind of bit concerned. So is the is there equal concern in the campaign? Well, I think that there's always a concern, right, because there's always a concern that somehow over the next four months, not enough people will show up. I mean, that's one of the things. Election integrity is

also a huge issue that in the midst of coronavirus, the Democrats are trying to do to manipulate election laws and push this whole vote by mail scheme so that there's fraud in the election. I mean, so there's a lot of factors that are coming in here. And you're right, Dan, that not everyone kind of lives and breathes politics in the same way that you and I do on a daily basis. And so my concern is always like, so my mom and my dad, you know, they live out in Colorado, they are very concerned and invested citizens, but they have lives to live. You know, they don't do all of this 24 seven. And so when they text me and they're like, hey, you know, what's going on with X thing? I realize that they just want a snapshot and they just want a picture.

And when they tell me something like, hey, I'm kind of worried about this or is President Trump doing OK or what's going on with the campaign? That gives me, you know, it's just one piece of information. But those types of individuals, that's the kind of people that that gives me personally a snapshot of where kind of middle America is, the people who genuinely care about this country. I mean, listen, I'm not a Republican because I am party over country and neither is President Trump. He is a conservative. He has consistently said country over party. And that's where I think even with the registered Democrats and some of the

independents and the moderates really need to understand this point. And where I agree with you, the campaign has to harness this opportunity and better message this idea that our citizen president has come in and he has shaken up Washington in a very good way. And he's a leader for this time. So his response to Hannity was talking all about staffing and saying, you know, moving into the next four years, he wants to get even better people around him that aren't rhinos. They're not dedicated to the Washington swamp. They're not doing things, you know, the way that we've done them for the last 50 and 60 years of the spineless party that, you know, we all are as genuine conservatives are really frustrated about. He wants people like you, Dan, who really care about this country.

You care about your family. You care about God. You care about the things that make this country great to get people around him that will help move forward the next four years in even a more positive trajectory than his accomplishments over the last three and a half years.

Because now he does have experience in Washington. He's gotten so much done. Can I stop you there? Because you're making another good point and I don't want to lose it. There are a lot of questions as well about staffing decisions and you just brought that up. And it wasn't on my, I have a lot of questions, but I had a huge list here. There it is. But you're saying so much interesting stuff. I don't want to lose this here. There's been a legitimate criticism by me and others that, you know, hey, listen, you know, the first four years we brought in some people who really didn't have the president's best interests in mind. And it's it's upsetting. I mean, personally upsetting, not just politically. And we've had to clean up a lot of messes. not just politically. And we've had to clean up a lot of messes. You know, John Bolton, who just was, you know what, I'm going to leave the point because you are a very nice woman. And what I'm

going to say would probably offend you. John Bolton's a bad guy. I'll leave it at that. I was not a huge fan of H.R. McMaster. Thank him for his service to the country. I mean that. But again, that doesn't absolve you of being criticized in a government position where, you know, you have a lot of responsibility. So I guess my question here is, was the president taking a kind of team of rivals approach where he was trying to bring people in from all wings of the Republican Party to inform himself and they just turned on him? and they just turned on him? Or was it just, you know, a couple bad decisions personnel-wise and he learned from it

and he's moving on? Because, Jenna, we can't take four more years of these insider people who are just selling them out at every opportunity. It's just disgusting. He puts his faith

in these people. Wait, one more thing. He puts his faith in these people who screwed him over. He has dinner with Mitt Romney, considers the guy for Secretary of State.

At every opportunity, Mitt Romney just turns around and stabs the guy in the back. It's the most disgusting thing I've ever seen. Yes, it is. And that, Dan, is exactly the point that he made on Hannity that nobody was willing to acknowledge. And President Trump would be the first person to say that there were staffing decisions

that were made based on insiders and based on people who were recommended to him that were a disaster. I mean, that's why he has fired John Bolton. That's why he got rid of Jeff Sessions. That's why he said, we're not going to take these people who are so steeped in the swamp mentality that they're not willing to actually get on board the Make America Great agenda. And if we look at the system of government that our founders designed, they didn't design it for career politicians. They didn't design it for, you know, the Washington insiders that go to cocktail parties that say, you know, let's leverage this point versus that and really, you know, not take care

of our government in the best way to preserve and protect the rights of individuals. That's what conservatism is. We're conserving something. We're conserving this idea of American exceptionalism. President Trump, more than anyone else, gets that. That's why he ran in the first place. And so as an outsider, I mean, think about it. If you or me ran for president and we're coming from outside the Beltway, you know, with connections, but not being steeped in the Washington swamp, we're going to take some recommendations for staffing from people that we trust. And some of those decisions were not great staffing decisions because of how they were recommended to the

president. So he is committed to draining the swamp even more over the next four years and placing people there. Like the chief of staff, Mark Meadows, that is a great call. Mark has been around the swamp. He knows the place. And I love him too. I think he's excellent. For the people who don't know, he was the chair of the Freedom Caucus, which actually cares about protecting our rights. He did a great job in Congress. And so he is now around the president to be able to help with that. And he's done actually a great job, even that the media isn't reporting over the last few months that he's been the chief of staff. There has been a large staffing turnaround in very key positions. there has been a large staffing turnaround in very key positions.

When you look at people like Rick Grinnell, who are coming in as the acting DNI, he was amazing. And so those types of people, the people who are just committed to the American agenda, are the people that President Trump wants to put in place. And he has a much clearer picture moving into the next four years than he did just coming in in 2016. And it's amazing.

But Jenna, don't you find that interesting, though, on that point? That the media, which and folks, forgive me, I'm not trying in any way to be adversarial with Jenna. Jenna and I are great friends and I'm a big supporter of the president. That's no secret. But I do get questions from the audience where they're concerned about things because they care. And that's why I'm asking them. So don't, this is not some kind of like a adversarial interview at all. But it's interesting, the media spin on everything the president does. The media spin after Bolton, which when, by the way, when he hired Bolton, they were like, oh my gosh, the

worst thing ever. John Bolton's terrible. And he fired him. John Bolton's a hero. He's a martyr. Beatify him tomorrow. You can't win with these people. When he hires people, they criticize him. When he hires people that disagree with him, the president did not run as a foreign policy hawk, but he hired someone who was getting some, the media, the president's a tyrant. He only likes agreeers around them, except when he hires people who don't. But then when he makes a spectacular decision, of which he's had many, Bill Barr, can we agree? Rick Grinnell, spectacular. John Ratcliffe, equally as spectacular, even though early in his tenure.

I mean, the list goes up. Mark Meadows, who I have a lot of personal admiration for. I mean, the people he's picked, a lot of these decisions have been Sonny Perdue. Others have done a really, really good job. I mean, it's just insane how you get a couple of bad picks. Every administration's done that. They fired people early on or they didn't agree with. I mean, Obama went through a few chief of staffs in a row. And then Obama was, you know, Obama was painted as this great guy and Trump's always painted as an idiot. It's like he can't win. Absolutely. And that's what the fake news is doing. It's trying to treat President Trump as somehow different than every other president

throughout American history. And so everything that he does is negative to them and they'll spin it as negative. So when he hired someone, like you said, you know, John Bolton is the worst person. We're going to get into wars. This is terrible. And then when President Trump fires him, it's like all of a sudden he's on on ABC as this person who somehow has wonderful inside information. Where it was so clear in that interview, he had a completely different idea of policy and thought he knew better than the president. Well, guess what, John Bolton? You weren't elected. President Trump was elected by we, the people, to serve in that office. And he is taking that seriously and not allowing other people to run

the country for him. I have been in meetings personally with the president where he is always the smartest person in the room. And even if there's 20 people around, he knows more about what's going on about every single department than they do. And this is a president whose management style, when it comes from Wall Street, it comes from managing a huge organization. And he knows how to be a CEO. And he is invested in managing this country in a way that no other president has in modern American history. And that's remarkable. And that's the message that the campaign needs to drive more, not just be so defensive over all this, you know, just flat that the media wants to drive toward, but rather we need to get out the message of why President Trump as the citizen

president is truly making decisions in the best interest of America. That's why, you know, the China trade deal, that's why the USMCA that actually, you know, this week went into effect. That's why he defunded the World Health Organization after he saw what happened with the pandemic. That's why he's been so transparent. I mean, all of these things, building the economy, having, you know, moving into the pandemic, we have the strongest economy, the lowest unemployment rate. He'll build that again. And those are the accomplishments because it's who he is, not just because he's running the same way that Washington has always done. And that's why the shakeup in 2016 was such a clear message. We don't want someone like Hillary Clinton. 2020, we don't want someone

like Joe Biden. We don't want someone with the 40 years in the swamp. We want a citizen president who will question everything and who will be willing to stand up and say, no, that is not in the interest of Americans. That's not in the interest of my mom and dad. That's not in the interest of you and your wife. He says, you know, we will keep and protect the Second Amendment. Why? Because he knows that self-defense and keeping you and your family secure in your homes matters to people. It matters to people. It matters to him. Every time I talk to him, he's so concerned about all of these issues because he genuinely

cares about America. When you see him go out on that stage, Dan, and he's talking to the people that, you know, in the crowd, that's the same conversation as one-on-one because he sees that as a gap. I can attest to that. Jenna's like, by the way, we're talking to Jenna Ellis, senior legal advisor for the campaign. I'm going to take a break here in a second, but I can absolutely attest to that. The way he talks to whatever,

the guy serving him a bagel in the bagel store is the exact same way he talks to everyone else. That is not a joke. That is not hyperbolic. Jenna is not kidding. And I just want to kind of reiterate something you said and double down on it too, how he doesn't get a lot of credit for his ability to grasp an issue and think outside the box. He doesn't. The media is just, just like with Reagan, they're absolutely convinced that he's a dunce because he didn't go to journalism school.

They are. Yet I've had conversations with him. I'm not at liberty to share, obviously, with that. But where I brought up an issue, I'm a wonk. I love economics. It's my thing. And I was actually stunned by his answer one time on a tax issue because he caught me off guard because he picked up something, even though this has been my bread and butter, he picked up something I totally missed. And I have to tell you, I wasn't surprised because he was smart enough to figure it out. I was surprised enough that I didn't. And he got it before me, even though I'd come in kind of prepared on it. He's very, very smart.

Let me take a quick break. We're talking to Jenna Ellis, senior legal advisor for the Trump campaign and senior fellow at the Falkirk Center for Faith and Liberty. We'll be right back. Today's show also brought to you by our good friends at ExpressVPN. You've heard me talking a lot about ExpressVPN. I open up the show with them every day. Why is it important? Because listen, a lot of you are working from home right now. It's never been more important to choose a VPN you trust.

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through a few of them. Let me get to this question. Again, just addressing some of the critiques we get from the hacks in the media and from a lot of our liberal friends out there who don't seem to get President Trump. You know, he's criticized often, Jennifer, being transactional. You know, what can this guy do for us? What can this country do for us? One, I dispute that. I think he's ideologically driven like most politicians are. And that's a good thing, and that ideology is conservatism. Why? Because I've heard him speak to it. Maybe not as traditional in many senses, but he's criticized for being this transactional kind of tit-for-tat guy. Yeah, we're not going to do this unless they do that for us. Again, I dispute that, but we've had

presidents in the past who claim to be Republicans and claim to be ideological. We're with you. We're pro-life and we're pro-Second Amendment and we're going to cut your taxes. We've heard it all. Jenna, you've seen the campaign signs too. They get into office in Congress, the Senate, or the presidency in some cases. I think you know what I mean. And what do we get? We get Democrat light. We get big softies. Well, you know, abortion. We're not going to bring that thing up. Abortion. We don't need to talk about that. Tax cut. Well, you know, I'm not really into the whole tax cuts thing. We're going to be accused of tax cuts for the rich. The president, I don't think he's transactional, but I think he understands the value of a transaction that benefits the conservative ideology.

Any thoughts on that criticism you hear often? Yeah, you know, the fake news media will try to take anything positive and spin it into a negative. I mean, if he was only ideologically driven, they would say, well, he's not practical, he doesn't get it, his head's in the clouds. And then, you know, when he does the transaction that is the art of the deal, that negotiation, that frankly has to happen. Right. You know, that's that is what we elect a president to do is to be in a sense transactional. Then they criticize him for that and say, oh, he just operates without principle. Well, no,

you know, he has a foundational set of principles, which, by the way, are the same as the founding fathers. And he understands that he understands the margins of Article 2 and his limitations in terms of the office of the president. That's why he's so frustrated with Congress. That's why the whole DACA debacle was saying he was willing to work with Congress, but he understands that when President Obama legislated through his phone and his pen and put out that executive order, that was unconstitutional. It was illegal. So he's rescinding that. And he's saying, Congress, you've got to deal with it because that's what our separation of powers provides. So he's very ideological, but he's also transactional in a good way, meaning he gets

stuff done. He's not just sitting there in the Oval Office pontificating and saying, you know, oh, wouldn't it be great if? He's actually looking at what can I get done? And he has gotten more done and accomplished for the American people and for the interests of that ideology than any any president Reagan or even I think even more so than Reagan. I mean, he is the first president who's actually a doer, not just a speaker of the conservative ideology. So for him to show up, like you mentioned abortion, for him to show up

at the March for Life and to actually take that position, for him to, as much as he can in the executive branch, defund Planned Parenthood, those are actions that are transactional in furtherance of that ideology.

But the fake news media will never say that. All they do is criticize and they want to sell you a lie. They want to sell you a fake narrative. They want to sell you this idea that he doesn't know what he's doing. They want to infantilize him. They don't want to admit that he is smart. He understands how Washington works and he understands what he needs to do as president. And that's the only reason that he left Wall Street.

He left a very comfortable lifestyle to go and be maligned and hated and criticized because he understands. And he actually tweeted this just the other day, this me that says they hate me because I am because they actually hate you. And I'm the one who's defending you from liberal ideology right and he understands very clearly and he's willing to stand up we can't buy into this fake news media narrative you know i tell my parents that all the time when they you know text me oh no you know what about this article i saw this is you know a headline and i'm like okay let's break this down look at what they're actually saying and by the end of it they're kind of laughing going wow the media is stupid and i'm'm going, yeah, exactly.

So don't buy into it. Look at the facts for yourself. And I mean, his executive orders, everything that he does, that's all on the White House website. If people would take more responsibility to take a few minutes and check into the facts themselves, not just do the easy thing and read a Politico article,

then that's where people can actually get the facts themselves, not just do the easy thing and read a Politico article, then that's where people can actually get the facts for themselves and see how much this president accomplished. Well, it's hard to get the facts because journalism isn't interested in facts anymore. I think, you know, it's really difficult. I'm not kidding. Like you and I know where to go and find them. But, you know, does the average Joe, they don't have time to read 16 different newspapers. And we're going to get 16 different versions of the events. I mean, you know, does the average Joe, they don't have time to read 16 different newspapers. And we're going to get 16 different versions of the events. I mean, you know, hopefully we'll get to this Russian intelligence thing in a moment. But on that, the transactional comments, because, again, I get that a lot.

You put out all the facts and the truth. So, you know, if they follow you, that's a good first. Well, thank you. I really appreciate that. Thank you. We do our best. You know, sometimes we get it wrong, but we correct it. But I appreciate that. My criticism of the Trump is just transactional, doesn't have any guiding ideology comments are. If that's the case, Jenna, this is the single dumbest transaction in American history. This guy was living the life. He was rich. The press loved him. All the elites in culture thought he was, he was in, they had him in rap videos and Miss America pageants. The guy, everybody loved him. He was all over. He'd be cited in music and entertainment.

He had this number one TV show. He, if he had no ideology and no guiding principles at all, candidly, he would have run as a Democrat, right? Because Democrats are always accepted to be the good guy by the mirror. Why would he run as a Republican? I mean, it's a simple question, is it not? That if Trump is only transactional, he only cares about Trump in the end and positive press, then what the hell was he doing running as a Republican? He would have probably slid to a landslide if he just ran as a Democrat. The

Democrats would have loved him, but he didn't. And that's why I just so dispute this nonsense that the man doesn't have a guiding set of principles. No human being would have stayed in office and gone through this and ran if he didn't believe what he was doing was the righteous path. A hundred percent. And that is so well said, Dan. And, you know, there are all of the people who genuinely are for him and are around him, you know, myself included, in all honesty. I mean, I, you know, I get probably 1%, if that, of all of the hatred and vitriol, but I get a lot of it. And to just see, you know, the sincere hatred from people.

I mean, it's just, it's pure hatred for conservatives who are supporting Trump and supporting America. And, you know, he wouldn't be there taking all of that if he didn't genuinely believe in America. And I would not be here and would not be, I mean, I, you know, I come from Colorado. I'm, I am in a constitutional law attorney that cares about America. I care about our funding principles, our American way of life. And I support and work for President Trump because I know that he is genuine in his conservatism. I know that he cares about this country. And I'm willing to put up with, you know, what little, but for me, it's a lot.

You know, for me, it's an insane amount of hatred that I get every day. And I'm willing to put up with that like he's willing to put up with it because I believe that this president is doing so much for America. And I'm not here just because of the paycheck, like so many people say. I'm here because I truly believe in the cause. And those are the people he does have some people like that around him. like that around him. But moving forward into the next four years, he's going to get even more of those type of people around him who understand him and want to serve him and this country, not serve Washington interests. Well, Jenna, on that topic, you know, the hatred we receive, sadly, I've said often, you know, we see liberals largely as people with

bad ideas. Liberals see us as bad people with ideas. And there's a big difference. Not to say I don't get feisty with liberals. Listen, I do personal attacks. I'm not above it. I can't stand Brian Seltzer. Brian, he just annoys me. And sometimes I lose it on my show about this guy. By the way, if you've missed ever some of Jenna's cuts from CNN, folks, you're making a huge, just Google Jenna Ellis, CNN, or DuckDuckGo, whatever you use. You can see some of her great appearances over there. But you've been the victim of some of this as well. You had tweeted out in your social media account

a little while ago, defense of Christianity, saying, listen, this culture war thing, you come for Christianity, I'm going to fight back. Like, we're not giving that up. That's my lodestar. That's our guiding light. And you were just mercilessly attacked. And I'll tell you in all candor, I read the tweet and to this day, I'm still curious why that created a controversy.

Is that more indicative of where we are in this culture war now, how just about any tenant of our belief system is going to go down? And does the president, I kind of know the answer, but does the president recognize that? Does he understand like he's the tip of the spear of this culture war? We lose him. It's over. Oh, 100%. He gets that so clearly. And again, that's why, you know, there's, there is absolutely no basis to the allegation

that he might drop out. I mean, he understands that he's the tip of the spear and that he is the forefront of this, of the wall. Literally, if we want to talk about barricades and why walls are necessary from this deluge of the progressive liberal leftist culture that is trying to fundamentally transform America. And, you know, you mentioned that tweet and it was really interesting to me, Dan, as well. I mean, I just, I just felt like after reading, you know, all this stuff about what the mob is doing, Black Lives Matter, which, you know, that's a movement that has an ideology. And it's not about Black Lives Matter. It's about

a fundamental transformation of America that's trying to rid America of our founding principles, to rid us of our institutions that are morally based, the family, the traditional family, the church, our system of government that has legitimate powers, but limited powers to preserve and protect the rights that you and I cherish that are God given. Black Lives Matter and Antifa and all of these other extreme mob mentality leftists, they are coming in with a very fundamentally different worldview. And they want to tear down those institutions that's why they're burning churches toppling statues that's why they hate president

trump and his law and order uh agenda and to make sure that he will enforce our laws and so when i was reading this i was actually on the plane to go out to arizona to see you know the president's speech and i read a few of these tweets including one of the main leaders for Black Lives Matter that was talking about burning down churches and monuments to what he called the white Jesus. And when you take this idea of racism, and you say that everything is systemically racist, and you put up a false straw man argument to then say that because you know because christianity believes that jesus is white that's about white supremacy therefore christianity needs to go that's not what christianity believes at all we actually the worldview of christianity shows there is one race we are all one blood because we all as human

beings are made in the image of God and therefore have inherent dignity and worth. And because of that, we then with that worldview is the only one that recognizes the inherent value of human beings, not on the basis of sex, not on the basis of color, not on the basis of age. That's why, you know, we are so pro-life from the moment of conception because unborn children also have the same inherent dignity and worth but when these leftists try to harness uh the their power of this so-called systemic racism and they put up a straw man and they say that christianity is now only defending whiteness and white supremacy then on that basis they're going to try to to cancel Christianity. And I saw that very clearly.

So I simply put out a tweet. It wasn't even a response to anybody. It was just by saying, if they come for my Christianity, I will stand firm. I will stand up. And I'm also proud to be an American. That tweet, Dan, got over six and a half million views. I know. And I still don't get what was controversial about it. I'm still confused.

I don't understand what the controversy was. It's not controversial and it shouldn't be in a genuine America that's founded on the understanding that our first freedoms, freedom of speech, association and free exercise of religion allows us to do what we're doing right now, which is to speak together about truth and to decide for ourselves what is truth, what is fact, and what we believe about God and the things that are most important to us and life's most essential questions. The left wants to tear down that freedom. They want to tell you how to think what you can and can't think. That's why cancel culture is so important to them. That's why erasing history is so important to them.

They don't want to actually progress and create a more perfect union. So my tweet was going exactly against everything that they believe, which is to say that if I'm standing up for the true Christianity, for truth, that truth actually exists, that we're not in a post-truth society, that goes and that targets the foundation of everything that they stand so ardently against. And that, and Sean King, who's a leader of Black Lives Matter, he saw that tweet and his response to that was, look, she's only defending for whiteness. That's the health crisis. The narrative, just like the big news media,

and they're trying to cancel all of the good principles of America because they are pushing an ideology. And that's what people understand. We talk about just the mob mentality or why we need to keep statues or why we're pro-life or any of these top level issues. We have to understand as conservatives, our perspective on these issues are grounded in truth. They're grounded in a comprehensive worldview that says we are all created equal and that genuine equality can only

come from an accurate, truthful view that we are all human beings made in the image of God. That's the truth of Christianity. And that's what the left is trying to attack. Yeah, I agree. And I think the value of the president in the culture war, President Trump, is he just doesn't back down. You know, in a couple of interviews I did on Fox years ago, they asked me, you know, why does some derivative of why does the, you know, why does President Trump drive the left so mad? And I said, because they're used to the cookie cutter Republican. And the cookie cutter Republican was this. The Democrats would accuse you of being a racist for some comment that had 99.9% chance nothing to do with race at all, no less racism.

The Republican would flee in horror, even though it was a completely fabricated, made-up charge. Would run to the New York Times, beg forgiveness and apologize. Jenna, that's real power. That's power to do that, to be able to subjugate people like that to your whims based on nothing more than an assertion that's untrue. You're a racist. I apologize. That's what they do. I mean, that's just how they were. President Trump doesn't do that.

When they accuse him of things that aren't true, like, my gosh, he's a racist. Despite this seemingly positive assertion, they're so sure about it. I don't mean positive versus negative, but they're so sure about it. No one ever mentioned that before he ran for office. He just doesn't accept it and he bashes right through it. So whereas they're used to apologizing and they've kind of accommodated themselves to that, they're not willing to accept this new model of a Republican that just says, nah, that we're not going to do that because I'm not a racist. You're making that up. You're a liar. And a matter of fact, a matter of fact, I'm turning around on you. You guys are the fake news. And I'm going to make the story about you instead. Would you agree like he's the bull in the China

shop? And that's what has them so afraid if they can't get this guy under control via the election or getting rid of him? A hundred percent. That's why the fake news media is relentlessly attacking him, because he won't apologize. And in turn, he is giving conservatives a more bold voice that we need to stand up and say, no, I'm not going to apologize for the way that I look or how I was born. I'm not going to apologize categorically and submit to a false narrative. I'm going to stand up for the truth. And he's giving, I think, conservatives and the Republican Party, certainly, the boldness to stand up for truth and to say, no, the premise of your attack is fundamentally false. And we haven't seen that in a president since Ronald Reagan,

to stand up and say, no, you are wrong. And so they hate him viscerally for that because they can't attack him in the ways that they've always been able to attack Republicans and, you know, make us retreat into the corner and apologize and say, you know what, if you'll just stay out of our churches, we'll be fine. You can have the rest. Just please, please, please stay out of our churches. Well, President Trump doesn't beg for anything. He doesn't say, please, please, please. He says, no, and I'm moving forward and I'm going to be on the offensive and I'm taking back ground.

I'm not just going to defend and I'm not going to retreat. I'm going to actually take more ground for our founding principles. And that's why they hate it. And that's why this election is so incredibly important. And why people can't just say, well, you know, Joe Biden's kind of a moderate. No, he's not. Everything that he stands with, all of his party, those are the extremists. They're the defund the police. They're these Marxist ideological wackos that are out there that want to tear down freedom and liberty. President Trump stands for America proudly. He stands for the flag. He stands for liberty and freedom. And that's the contrast of what this election is all about. and freedom. And that's the contrast of what this election is all about.

Wow, this is a long one. Wouldn't you agree, Paula? We like you, Jenna. We usually go a half hour. A couple more questions. I'll let you go. You've been generous with your time. Yeah, this is great. I mean, that's what I like about long form interviews. We just get to go on topics and we don't necessarily have to stick to a script. Just a quick one here and then I'll wrap it up with the latest foreign policy hoax being imposed upon us by the fake news. What do you think the state of the GOP is? I have to tell you, I saw, we're taping this, by the way, on, what is it, Wednesday? Yeah, I got to look. I lose track of time. So last night, I watched Tucker Carlson's terrific show on Fox News. And Tucker and I don't always agree on everything, but he gave a monologue last night about the state of the GOP. I played it actually on my Wednesday podcast, which was

probably the most important two minutes of television you're going to see in a long time. And the gist of it was this, that, you know, it's time for a contrast. The Democrats have run against Democrat-lite Republicans for a long time, and the time for small measures are over. It's time for Stanford things, and it's time for Stanford big-ticket things. Religious liberty, economic freedom, you know, equality for all Americans, regardless of skin color. No special rights, no special privileges, the same rights for everyone. And the GOP, as Tucker, I think, accurately stated, not all of them, there are some good ones out there. I don't want to stereotype, but a large majority of them have completely abandoned us and have just decided

to run as Democrats light. And the contrast isn't there. And I think Tucker's assertion about the president was it's his bold kind of brashness and his willingness to do things differently that have created that contrast for the first time in a long time. What do you think the state of the GOP is? And do you think that some of these kind of hacks on the inside and the Republican side, my word, not yours, but they're just waiting for the first opportunity to dump this president? Yeah, and there are definitely people inside of the GOP and in Washington who are not for this president and are actually actively working against him. And they want to return to the status quo of Washington

as they knew it before Trump. And that's so unfortunate because they're not genuine Republicans in the sense that Republican, if we can equate that as the political party that believes in the conservative principles and how America was founded and our founding principles. And so, you know, you and I might call them rhinos, like, you know,

Republican in name only or some other or hacks, right? I mean, I'll adopt that term too. But these are people who genuinely are only self-interested and they're in Washington because they want a career. They want to survive this presidency and they want to basically return Washington to to the normal that President Trump came in and is shaking up completely. So, you know, while the Democrats have a complete identity crisis in the sense that they need to embrace the fact that their party is not genuinely moderate Democrat anymore, they're not for

abortion being safe, legal and rare. They're for inf for infanticide i mean that is a pill their platform they're against freedom they're against you all of these things well in the same way the gop not president trump not the maga movement but the gop has that same identity crisis actually going on that they need to recognize that the conservatives and the base has moved forward and is embracing the MAGA movement only because we recognize and cherish the principles of America's founding and freedom and liberty genuinely. And we are rejecting the weak Republicans in Washington, and they are going to need to either get on board or get out. And that is going to be all. And I wish that President Trump had more supportive Republicans around him because he could have

accomplished even more things. And there are some. There are quite a number of them. I mean, not enough. Jim Johnson from Louisiana, you know, John Radcliffe, all these Mark Meadows, all of these great people who are around him in Congress to support him. But there's not enough to be right. And we need to hear as as Republicans, I'm a registered Republican, obviously, that our party is moving forward in a way that leaves behind this sort of, you know, pansy like capitulation. this sort of pansy-like capitulation, and that with President Trump, we move forward to a bold new era of reclaiming the principles of our founding and what made America so great.

Let me ask you an exit question here. The latest New York Times fake news story is that the president was briefed that our soldiers had bounties on them placed by the Russians, given to Taliban, agents of the Taliban to kill our soldiers. Now, that intel may or may not be true, but the story was that the president was briefed and did nothing. Of course, it's another effort to tie him to the debunked, discredited Russian collusion hoax. But I was on The Five the other day, and I told this story having been a Secret Service agent where they just seem to not understand the way intelligence works. That's why they're journalists and not special agents or intel operatives.

The president is not briefed about every single bit of intelligence the intelligence community gets. Why? Because a lot of that intelligence turns out later to not be true. You don't want to brief the president. The Russians are planning an EMP attack tomorrow. Strike first. You know, he drops a nuke and then finds out the next day, my bad, we screwed that up. I was telling this story about a time I spent in Indonesia with the Secret Service.

President Obama is about to land. We see some activity in this hotel. We think it could be really bad, potential terror activity. We're like, what do we do? Do we tell the president? We don't tell him. We fix it. We find out later.

Nothing to do with that at all. It was just a business guy, case of mistake and identity, et cetera. President landed, never heard a thing about it. I mean, is that dereliction of duty? The president didn't know. You know why the president didn't know? Because he didn't have to know because it wasn't verified yet. Can you please address this story

and just the media spin on this that this guy's completely out of touch. The president, he doesn't care about any of this nonsense and just kind of throw this thing to because I'm getting tired of this garbage is fake news stuff. Yeah, I mean, well, and this is, again, just another malicious narrative from the fake news media that wants to national intelligence, that he has the NSA, that he has people who are in place to vet security, intel, and national intelligence information. The intelligence community, if they're doing their job, they're not going to bother him 24-7 with every single piece of intelligence that may or may not be accurate. You know, but for these reporters, it's like for them, they try to grasp onto every possible opportunity to spin a narrative that he is somehow just sitting in the Oval Office doing nothing and doesn't care.

It's ridiculous. And so as journalists, they are looking for opportunities to spin the narrative falsely. I mean, if you look at one of the questions from the reporter to the press secretary this past week was in regard to the statues, was saying, you know, do you feel really happy that the Confederacy lost, that the South, you know, lost the Civil War? I saw that. Ryan Lizza. Name him. name him. Ryan Lizzo. What a toolbox. That was the dumbest question I've ever heard in the brain, the Brady press room ever. But that question was just as stupid and humiliating for the press as this ridiculous

New York Times story. And that's what Americans need to understand is that they can't just take this one story that then, you know, goes wild and viral before the truth can come out. And then suddenly, oh, yeah, sure, that's, you know, that's just a White House cover up. And then it's some sort of controversy. All they're trying to do is generate controversy where there isn't so that they don't have to report the fact and truth that this president is doing a great job. So this story was absolutely false. It was ridiculous. And, you know, I think it was Winston Churchill or at least this was attributed to him.

They said, you know, a lie goes halfway around the world before the truth can even get its hands on. That's the New York Times. That's true. Paula's giving me the heave ho because you're the longest interview now we've ever conducted. She's in the background. God, God, we break down the fourth wall on this show all the time, Jenna. Jenna, I got to run. Thank you so much for your time, folks. Please follow Jenna

on social media, on Parler and Twitter, Jenna Ellis, ESQ, follow her there. She does some really fantastic, insightful commentary you're not going to get anywhere else. And she's been a fantastic advocate for liberty and freedom and this president who cares about those big ticket items as well. We really appreciate it, Jenna. Thanks for your time. fantastic advocate for liberty and freedom. And this president who cares about those big ticket items as well. We really appreciate it, Jenna. Thanks for your time. We'll talk to you soon. Thanks so much, Dan. You just heard Dan Bongino.