The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - Aaron Rodgers Gave Pittsburgh Hero Ryan Clark the Cold Shoulder

Episode Date: August 29, 2025

*NOTE: We recorded this podcast before the Dallas Cowboys traded Micah Parsons to the Green Bay Packers. But do not fret Football Americans! Shek provided his immediate reactions to the trade on our YouTube. -Newsman Bradley Best of times, worst of times? Beats the Dickens out of me what that one tale of two cities was about…but where Pittsburgh and Cleveland are concerned, I’m not sure who’s better or worse… at least at sports’ most important position. Now listen, I’m not insane. The Steelers will be better than the Browns this year--and of course we can laugh at the Browns. Oh my yes, we’ll laugh at the Browns, that is my solemn vow. But whatever you think Cleveland’s one step forward, 23-yards sack approach, at least they tried to solve the QB spot. As it happens, the two halves of pro pigskin’s rusty yinz n yang are in the same spot, starting one-yr rentals both on the wrong side of 40…and that’s not a real solution, especially if the goal is going the Super bowl. You think Aaron Rodgers is the missing link for a Lombardi run? the guy whose one and only trip was 15 years ago…against you? By that logic, maybe the Niners shoulda signed their SB43 conquerer Joe Flacco. I’m pretty sure the Steelers braintrust didn’t see Sinners…because if they had, they’d know you don’t invite in the guy who wants to suck the culture outta you and make it his own. Sorry if that’s upsetting, but do keep in mind, yinz have merely adopted the darkness. I was born into it. Back in October of 2010, I said Rodgers would go down as the greatest QB in history. I still say he’s the most talented. Or at least, he was. Now though, chasing the self-proclaimed private man who makes documentaries about himself isn’t a sincere effort to go the Super bowl. It’s about Rodgers and Tomlin’s mutually beneficial hope they find redemption and reclaim professional dignity with A playoff win. There’s a good reason why that story sounds familiar - it’s the same script Tomlin tried with Russell Wilson last year. And that low standard is quite, Brownsie? Of course this didn’t have to happen. At the draft they knew they needed a long term answer at QB…but took a D-tackle. And now, if Jaxson Dart is good, that’s bad, and if Justin Fields beats Aaron Rodgers in Week One, well, it’s gonna get just plain ugly. A-listers like Rodgers might get ink, but summer blockbusters fall in the NFL’s offseason. The award winners don’t come out til Autumn… and if you can’t beat Patrick Mahomet, Lamar Jackson or Josh Allen in January. No matter which rust belt city you’re in... there’s no point to these fireworks. (And that reminds me, one last note to file away for next summer, Najee Harris - fireworks go in the sky, not your eye.) Let it begin! Ryan Clark joins the show to talk about Aaron Rodgers, cold shoulders and why Mike Tomlin never lost them a game. The Super Fuentes Brothers have the con in Miami. They’re gonna help me with some fantasy decisions as the Angel & Devil on my shoulder. Newsman Bradley is in NYC with the black and white news. Also, big shoutout to my guy Tony in Encino, CA, who told me at soccer practice the other day he’s a Football American! Be a patriot, subscribe! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Best of times, worst at times. Beats the diggins out of me what that one tale of two cities was about. But where Pittsburgh and Cleveland are concerned, I'm not sure who's better or worse. At least it's sports most important position. Now, listen, I'm not insane. The Steelers are going to be better than the Browns this year. And of course, we can laugh at the Browns. Oh my yes, we will laugh at the Browns.

On that, you have my solemn vow. But whatever you think of Cleveland's one step forward, 23-yard sack approach, At least they tried to solve the QB position this offseason. As it happens, the two halves of Pro Pigskins, Rust Belt, Yins, and Yang are now in the same spot, starting one-year rentals both on the wrong side of 40, and that's not a real solution, especially if the goal is going to the Super Bowl. You think Aaron Rogers is the missing link for a Lombardi run? The guy who's won an only trip there was 15 years ago, against you?

By that logic, the Niners should have tried to sign their Super Bowl 43 Conqueror Joe Flacko. Now, I'm pretty sure the Steelers' brain trust didn't see sinners because if they had, they know you don't invite in the guy who wants to suck the culture out of you and make it his own. Sorry if that's upsetting, but do keep in mind, Yins have merely adopted the darkness. I was born into it. Back in October of 2010, I said Rogers would go down as the greatest QB in history, and I still say he's the most talented, or at least he was. Now, though, chasing the self-proclaimed private man who makes documentaries about himself isn't a sincere effort to. to go to the Super Bowl, it's about Rogers and Tomlin's mutually beneficial hope they find redemption and reclaim professional dignity with a playoff win, as in just one. There's a good

reason why that story might sound familiar. It's the same script Tomlin tried with Russell Wilson just last year, and that low standard is quite brownsy. Of course, this didn't have to happen at the draft, they knew they needed a long-term answer at QB, but took a D-tackle. And now if Jackson D-Tart is good, that's bad. And if Justin Fields beats Aaron Rogers in week one, well, it's going to get just plain ugly. A-listers like Rogers might get ink, but summer blockbusters fall in the NFL's off season. The award winners don't come out till autumn. And if you can't beat Mahomes, Lamar, Josh Allen, in January, no matter which Rust Belt City you're in,

there's just no point to these fireworks. And that reminds me, one last note to file away for next summer, Najee Harris. Fireworks go in the sky, not your eye. Let it begin. Hi and hello, my fellow football Americans. Today's episode of Football America is presented by Draft Kings. Draft Kings, The Crown is yours. And in honor of episode four, the player who wears the crown is the NFL's all-time best number four is,

with all due respect to Adam Vinatary, Zay Flowers, James Cook, Dak Prescott, Brett Farve is your winner. Like it or not? Hey, shout out real quick to my guy, Tony. in Ancino. He told me at soccer practice the other day, he's a football American, the first person to come up to me out in the wild and say as much, be a patriot like Tony, subscribe on YouTube and or wherever you find your podcasts. Coming up, we got Ryan Clark. The Fuentes brothers have the con in Miami. They're going to help me out with some fantasy decisions, Angel and Devil on my shoulder style. But first, here's Newsman Bradley in NYC with the black and white news. Thanks, Dave. Well, it's been a week of trimming and transactions. And of course, the biggest transaction of all happened on Instagram. Kansas City Chiefside and Travis Kelsey proposed to the Grammy Award winning singer-songwriter Taylor Swift. Now much has been said about the proposal. But can we clear something up while Travis proposed on his right knee? Was it the right knee? I, you know, I don't know what that even means.

Is it the right knee? But I am proud to say I did hear about this engagement. Well, if it's the right knee that you're talking about, that's the one that's been giving Travis Kelsey see his injury problems his entire career, but the last significant injury was his rookie year like 12 years ago, so I don't know what Casey fans were worried about. Well, I do think you make a good point. The left knee is the safe knee to use there. Sorry 87. Bad choice on the knee, but muzzle tuff on the engagement. Bradley, what's next? Well, finally, thanks to your input, Football Americans, we have decided America's team for the 2025 season. Dave boiled it down to a final four of Dallas, Buffalo, Detroit, and Green.

Bay? I didn't. For the record, I didn't. I threw it out to Football America. I was just like Simon Cowell, giving some ideas out there. Football Americans are the ones who made the decision here. So who came out on top as America's team? The Buffalo Bills.

This is the right choice. Teach, you got the Kansas City Chiefs, you got the Jacksonville Jaguars, you got the New England plate. Look, there are a lot of good teams in the NFL. But the Buffalo Bills are now Football America. because team 2025. Hey, related matter. I just checked the odds. Here it is. My weekly Super Bowl 60 pick. It's still the bills in the Niners. But how about this? The odds are a little bit shorter. Now down to 4 to 1. Coincidence that we've been buzzing about this Super Bowl matchup and

now those odds have dropped a little bit? Yeah, probably just a coincidence. But still, I thought I would mention it here. Hi, hello, NFL fans. Week 1 is your shot to play free and stack a million dollar cash bag with Draft King's Pick Six, an official partner of the NFL. Here's how, download the Draft King's Pick Six app, Draft King's easiest way to play fantasy. Enter for free and pick more or less on six player stats for week one. Share your link with friends to add more cash to the bag and get bonus shots to win. Hit all six picks and you'll be splitting a bag that's already at $1 million or more. Download the Draft King's Pick Six app.

Use the code Damashak, D-A-M-E-S-H-E-K, opt in for free and start. Start stacking entries for NFL week one. Zero cost, huge upside, and partnership with Draft Kings pick six, the crown is yours. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler. In New York, call 878-Y or text Hope and Y in 467-369. In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-88-889-7777 or visit ccpg.org. Please play responsibly on behalf of Boot Hill Casino and Resorting, Kansas.

21 and over. Agent eligibility varies by jurisdiction, void in Ontario. Bonus bets expires seven days after issuance. Four additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dkng.com slash audio. All right, it's time for the debut of Angel v. Devil. That is two Fuentes is entering. One Fuentes leaving. I have some important decisions to make in my upcoming fantasy draft,

and I have Mike and Gino in either ear. All right, I'm not going to waste time debating Josh Allen versus Lamar Jackson. Obviously, if you get either one of those guys, are going to be in pretty good shape. Let's go second tier, maybe even third tier here. Four names, you tell me the best one out of it. Justin Herbert, Caleb Williams, Dak Prescott, Justin Fields, Gino. I'm going to go to you with this one first. Okay, you've got to play the game here. You're not doing real life. You're playing fantasy football. The last year that Justin Fields was in Chicago. Don't condescend to me. I think I know what the

rules are here. Go ahead. The last year in Chicago, Justin Fields was completing somewhere between 12 and 13 passes a game. Not a lot. World beater. Wow. Not a lot. He was still fifth in fantasy points that year because he runs that much. And that's what you're trying to do here.

You're trying to outsmart everybody here. I'm sure this is down in what, the 10th, 11th, 12th round. Going undrafted in a lot of mocks I'm doing. Yeah. So you can get Justin Fields. He is probably going to be a top 10 quarterback, even if he's not a great passer. So do it. Beat the system.

Play the game. It does feel like. And this is, we don't know, because what, we know is what we've seen in preseason, which doesn't matter for anything. But it does seem like they want to run him around a lot more than the Steelers did a year ago. I'm sorry, I got in your way, Mike. Go ahead. Yeah.

So out of the four quarterbacks we have presented here, we have Justin Herbert, Kaelan Williams, Dag Prescott, Justin Fields, right? The only guy I'm 100% out on is Justin Herbert. Not because he's not a solid quarterback, his coach wants to run the ball. He wants to run the ball a lot. He has great weapons. He got King Allen back, Ladd-McConkie. He's good for a couple games. but the guy that everybody's down on because of last year

and probably just by where he plays by virtue of them being the Cowboys is DAC and obviously he's not going to have a disaster of a year like it was last year but all the other experts say that DAC is the best fantasy quarterback of these four and I'm not going to go around thinking I'm smarter than absolutely everybody on the internet

so with George Pickin, CD Lamb I can't say anything about the running back it's like I think they have like Miles Sanders and some guys like I can't really say anything about that but I do expect a huge bounce back year from DAC he'll probably steal you like what like three rushing touchdowns a year and i get what you're saying about justin fields but justin fields a helmet and the ribs away from being out for multiple weeks so i'm going to go with dac prescott as i love caleb williams i think huge year for caleb williams

but i'm not going to say that everybody else is wrong uh and dac's not the guy you want out of these four these are some good thoughts from both of you i really want to go caleb williams here Ben Johnson, I have made it pretty clear here that I'm all in on what Ben Johnson is going to be able to do in Chicago like he just did up in Detroit. It's a little too murky for me. Dak is the known entity, obviously,

out of this quartetta guys. And consider, we don't think that defense is going to be good in Dallas, right? And back to reality versus fantasy, if you don't have a good defense, that means you're going to be throwing a lot. You're going to be in shootouts on offense a lot. That describes to me a really good season for Dak,

who probably at this stage and two major injuries in at this point is not going to be running around a lot, so you'll lose something there. But C.D. Lamb, don't forget about Jake Ferguson either. And now George Pickens, there should be a lot of touchdown scored against Dallas, but also for Dallas. So I think Dak is the correct answer here. Next up, Gino.

How about this? Let's travel to Los Angeles. the Raiders, Rams and Chargers share that joint a few miles away from where I sit right now. The rookie of Marion Hampton, or the vet, who we've seen produce, Kyron Williams. Okay. We've seen Kyron Williams, but we've also seen how Matt Stafford is so close to missing the season that he's taking epidurals in the preseason. So rather than deal with that, we've got this 6 to 200 pound, 220 pound monster at running back, whose backup is missing an eye, for all we know. Harbaugh loves to run the ball.

Frank Gore became a Hall of Fame running back under his two digits. Year two of the Harbaugh experience. Have some fun mystery bag here. O'Marion Hampton. He's huge. He's huge. He looks the part. He could probably score a lot of touchdowns. He's probably going to be on the goal line all the time.

So I would go with Amarian Hampton here. All right. Let's hear your pushback on that, Mike. Pretty good case. Well, like you said, Karen Williams, we know what he's going to give us, right? He's a high production running back. I think having Devonte Adams now actually lining up a rider receiver will be good for him

because before it was just puked and a very hurt Cooper Cup. No, I don't think so. That's going to take away touchdowns. I don't think so. How do you figure on long passes? Kyron Williams, name the second running back for the Rams. Oh, wait. Start Googling.

Good point. Start Googling. Blake Coram. What do you mean? Name him. Blake Gorham. That's a problem. More like, who cares?

Okay. So, Kyron Williams did everything last year. I expect him to do everything again this year. Now, there are some concerns with that Stafford thing. but maybe they lean on them a little more if Stafford can go but I think we're going to get a lot of the same McIron Williams I expect similar production

from last year well good points here Gino clearly wins this one I'm taking the rookie here wear and tear is not a good thing on a running back vet experience is great at QB it is not great for a running back

you want the fresh legs there that one goes to Gino next up let's go talk about known entity CMC against the rook Ashton Genty. This is a fun one. Mike, you start us off here. Well, we all know when Christian McCaffrey's right.

He's one of the best fantasy players there is. Now, it's kind of scary what he had last year. I think it was, what, Achilles injuries to both legs? Do you know if I'm not wrong? Calf injuries. But kind of worried about the Achilles. Yeah, and usually when your guys are going to Germany, not that great.

So with all that, Christian McCaffrey, if he can stay healthy, because you don't live in fear. Okay? You don't live in fear out here in fantasy world. You choose guys, based on their production. We all know he's one of the greatest running backs in the game, especially for fantasy. It does hurt him a little bit since Brian Robertson Jr. is there now.

I expect Brian Robertson Jr. to take literally anything within the five-yard line. But we just know that Christian McCaffrey was basically their entire offense last, well, two years ago before he got the injuries. So it's just, it's really hard. I know Ascenti, the thing is, he's a battering ram. He's going to be really good. He's a rookie. He's much younger, but he's on a team where the offense, I think, might struggle a little bit. And Christian McCaffrey, know what you're going to get.

Better safe than sorry, Christian McCaffrey. Gino Do you know what Pete Carroll does to running backs? He just gives him the ball over and over and over and he runs plays that have been described by Marshawn Lynch as running through an MF's face

and this guy had 2,600 yards rushing last year at Boise State and they used the number six overall pick on him they're going to give him the ball over and over. The Raiders never taken bad draft picks before they never taken anybody in that spot and if you do that to Christian McCaffrey his Achilles.

I don't expect him to have the same running style as Ashton Genty, but I expect him to be involved and involved often, especially with the way that the wide receiver situation is there right now. Okay. So one's in his early 20s, one's on the age cliff at 30. You got me there. I'm taking my chances with the rook. You know what?

Gino once again wins this one. And I, you know, right. You know Pete Carroll's going to give the ball to the rook a ton. And I don't like that offensive line necessarily in Vegas. But I also don't like, remember, everybody gets amnesia about this stuff. CMC was a MVP candidate two years ago, but then the injuries returned. And I say return because that's our perception before that MVP adjacent season from CMC is, what a talent.

If only he could stay healthy, that's been the story of CMC as much as anything else has. I'll take the unknown in the Rook because you know that the Raiders are going to try to ride him. And one more thing with Shanney, this team perceives itself rightly. I picked them to go to the Super Bowl, as you know. They're going to try to spare CMC late September hits whenever they possibly can. The Raiders are not concerned about such matters. So I'm going to ride with Gentie here. You mentioned Brian Robinson, so let's get to him.

Now, Jacori Kroski Barrett, that's the reason that the commies could deal away Brian Robinson, who's been a touchdown machine since he got to Washington. But now the kid is rising up, and there's Austin Echler. Mike, talk me into whatever the best option is out of all those names. So I don't like Brian Robinson, Jr., because he's going to be second fiddle over there. He might get some touches here. They're very capable starting runnerback. I'm not going to say much, but, you know what I made a fair amount of money betting Brian Robinson anytime touchdown last year.

But that's just me. But I kind of like Austin Echler here just because I don't think his workload will change in Washington. Washington, but he's a type of guy that even with limited amount of touches, he always makes the most of them. He's always a dynamic out of the backfield guy. He's obviously not going to be doing the foreback thing anymore. It's too old, too many injuries. So I do like Austin Echler, just because he's always produced. And I feel like the commanders are going to kind of go for this little, like, kind of what Buffalo has going on, where our running back, not that important. We have a guy who can throw and run, and we're going to try to

optimize that. Now, obviously, he's not built like Josh Allen. They'd be dumb to have him kind of taking those hits. But I think they're going to go for an offense that's more of that style. so I kind of like awesome. And then, well, Bill, right? He wants to be called Bill. Bill Crosky Merritt. I think he'll get a good amount of touches, but I think it'll be much more of a 50-50 split

than people are going to realize. I did hear about the Bill Crosky. I don't know if that's a great PR move. Geno. Do a little PR for your favor running back out of this group. All right, I think I'm going to agree with Mike here in that Brian Robinson Jr. That's not the rules of the game.

I was told specifically by Bradley in the email. But this is not the rules. Okay. Angel and devil are not friends. They don't have the same page. All right, but he can get one right every now and then. Bryant Robinson has been deleted by virtue of being the backup to Christian McCaffer. He might not see the field at all.

Some games, yeah. Okay. All right. And we all agree Bill Kroski is not a great thing. But Bill Kroski. Bill Kroski might be good. Is seven feet tall or runs of 4-440? No, why not?

Let's do some mystery bag here. 4.4 and a half early. Let's do some more mystery bag here. It's going to be at the, what, the end of your draft? Yeah, this is your third straight rookie guy that you're going for. I mean, I'm going, like, you're at the end of the draft. You got either Austin Eklickland, who you know is only going to be in their half the time, or you've got Bill Kroski Merritt.

Who will also always be there half the time. But who's to say that maybe this guy just jumps in and he has a 1,300 rushing yards season and 10 touchdown? I guess you're leaning into fantasy football. What may happen? What do this? What do you're going to take him? I'm going to take him in the 10th, 11th round? No, these are all guys at the bottom of the barrel, but I'd rather have a guy.

I know he's going to give me something. At the minimum, Echler's going to catch four balls a game. And maybe he takes one for 20 yards and then you got something. These are all flex guys. We know that. We're not trying to get RB2s here. Mike, what do you make a Gino's argument? Like, who's to say?

Yeah. Oh, yeah, I guess make stuff up. You're to say. In the 11th round, you take lottery tickets. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So why not take a guy that you knows and to give you something? Make a choice, Dave. You know what I think?

I think the correct answer here is actually Brian Robinson. And I'm going to go back to what you said a minute ago, Mike, about him stealing goal line touches from CMC. At this stage in his career, CMC doesn't need the glory of getting those touches at the goal line. Shannie doesn't owe him that. I think that's Brian Robinson's value, right? So I think that if you're in a pinch and you need to put somebody in there, Brian Robinson, might end up giving you at least six points on two carries, and that might be enough to exceed whatever Austin Echler gives you in that offense. It's awfully murky as far as I'm concerned right now.

All right, real quick, T. Higgins, the clear cut number two in Cincinnati, against D.K. Matcalf, the clear cut number one, but with a probably murkier passing game situation in Pittsburgh than Cincinnati, Gino, start us off here. I'm going T. Higgins here, because it doesn't matter that he's the number two receiver in this offense. He's got Joe Burrow throwing him the ball. They have no defense to speak of. So they're going to throw over and over again. With Zach, who we know is a madman who just doesn't run the ball, he only runs the ball because he has to otherwise they're going to sack his quarterback on every play. So I'm going to go T. Higgins here. Doesn't matter if there's the number two receiver on the team. He'll probably catch 80

balls and 10 touchdowns this year. Mike, how say you? I'm a big T. Higgins guy. I said multiple times I'll trade Jalen Waddle and stuff for him right now. I much rather have him and a burner. But man, he sure likes to get ankle injuries. He gets them a lot.

When he's playing, he's fantastic. I remember there was some three touchdown games last year. He won me some games all by himself. He was fantastic, but he misses a lot. So the guy that chose CMC is going to be worried about. Yeah, because on the other side, when I have D.K. Metcalfe, I have this huge receiver with probably, I want to, might be the best quarterback he's had in his career outside of Russell Wilson those first couple years, I'm guessing. So, I mean, I'm never been a big Geno Smith guy. D.K. Metcalfe, he's going to get the ball.

I kind of expect a little bit of resurgence, not old. old Aaron Rogers, but better than he was with the Jets. So just by virtue of being a number one receiver and likely being more healthy, I'm going to say D.K. McCaff. Yeah, I, I, you make good cases both. Here, I'm going to lean ever so slightly towards Mike because. Oh, there's a big surprise. But did you listen to me at the top of the show? I think you can count me as a skeptic, friend. Now, here's the tiebreaker for me.

Aaron Rogers is not the Aaron Rogers of half a decade ago. Obviously, we understand that. The one thing that he does do still is he goes at his favorite target over and over and over again. D.K. Metcalf is the clear-cut best option in Pittsburgh. He is going to get such a high volume of targets every single week, no matter how much the opponent doubles them up or otherwise. D.K. Mechavis can consistently get eight to 12 targets a game. That's reason enough for me to ride with him. And thus ends our experiment called Angel and Devil, the debut.

I, for one, enjoyed it. Guys, please don't fight. Wait, wait, wait, no. Guys, please fight. All right, I'm real excited about this one for any number of reasons, and it may get a little contentious. I just have to say that out of the gate. Either way, though,

I feel like his great playing career is getting a little overshadowed at this point. I mean, he's a pro bowler. He's a Super Bowl champion, but all anybody talks about is Ryan Clark buzzing about all things NFL on ESPN, NFL live. You see him on Monday Night Football. And the pivot is dynamite stuff and a real good, real good tee up for college football fans right now with Marcus Freeman. Make sure you dig in on that really fascinating, big range of conversation. It gets pretty deep and gets very funny. as well. Make sure you're checking out the pivot. I'm talking, of course, about, I would say,

one of my two favorite Pittsburgh Steelers as a grown-up. It's Ryan Clark. How are you, fella? Man, good. How you doing? Listen, that's a big deal. I was having the conversation with somebody about that the other day about how being a Pittsburgh Steeler keeps you so humble. you know like you can you can accomplish some cool things and you know you can play good ball people can think that you're a good football player win a Super Bowl be a pro bowler and then you walk in the hall and Mel Blunt was there or Joe Green was there a god rest his soul Franco Harris is there and then you realize like wait I haven't done a damn thing right you think about all the greats all the Hall of Famers, all the people that really laid the foundation for what Steeler Nation truly is

and getting to see them all the time, getting to talk to them, touch them, Joe Green, walking the hallways, man, it truly is just a different organization. And it allowed you to really have respect for the people that came before you and truly laid the foundation. Boy, rich stuff. I can't wait to talk about this current edition of the Pittsburgh Steelers in just a second. And we were talking before you joined, Ryan. I was introducing a couple of people here behind the glass who hadn't seen or didn't remember your collision with Willis McGahey. I still hold it up. I know we've talked about it a million times before, but it is perhaps the signature moment of the greatest rivalry this millennium is after Troy Palomalu houses the ball to send you guys to the Steelers,

you turned out Willis McGahey's lights. I've said it before. You were Balboa. He was Creed at the end of Rocky, too. You barely got to your feet. at the nine count. He didn't get up. It's all over. The Steelers are heading to the Super Bowl. Man, one of my best friends, one of my best friends called me after, and he used to call me PI for some reason. Like it, it went through this whole thing, but he started calling me Private Ryan. He's like, Private Ryan, you won. He's like, you got up first. That means you won. And I think back to that, though, it actually wasn't very intelligent to even do it, because we were going to win the game. I couldn't, I couldn't even really celebrate the win

in the way I was supposed to because I wasn't even all there. But I think it's those moments, man, that keep us all so tight. I got to see Max, Kiesel, BM, when I went back to training camp. And when you go through those sorts of things with people, the connection and the connectivity between you guys last forever. Like, it truly is a brotherhood, which is an overused word, I think, when we talk about sports. But in Pittsburgh, it was different.

Oh, you're going to drag me in, RC, into talking about the night before Super Bowl 43 and you guys, all the defense stayed up all night and all the rest of it. And then number seven saved the day, didn't he? He saved the day with that last time. We'll get to the current Steelers in just a minute. I do have, I hate to do this, but you did it to yourself, really. I didn't do it. A few weeks back flipping through summertime, social media, and Ryan Clark, he announces, okay, people are doing picnics and whatever this time. Yeah. I don't, I'm not a Coleslaw fan. You're not going to hear Dave Damashek go for anything. Mayo, you know, specific kind of thing. I'm not going to, I'm not going to stick my neck out and try and defend Mayo. Yeah. That's okay. Right. So, okay, so you're not a mayo fan, right? But here's the thing. I like mayonnaise on a sandwich. I mean, Coleslaw, Coleslaw. Not Mayo. You don't like Red of it. Yeah, Coleslaw is terrible. Okay. Coleslaw is actually a useless food. it is one of the most unnecessary things that anyone has ever thought to themselves let me cook this

and use this and the fact that people put it on other things that could otherwise be good if you wouldn't put coleslaw on it to just ruin it i just think like there's certain things that just shouldn't be and i don't know if somebody was bored when they made coleslaw i don't know if they just didn't have you know enough money to go find some food that should be edible and just threw some things together. But yeah, I have tried to eat Coleslaw once, and I never will again. Well, like, yeah, we don't need the NFL's new rivalries, uniforms. We don't need the Anaheim ducks. I agree. There are things that exist that... How did the Anaheim ducks get you straight? Well, we don't need them. I mean, it's in Southern California.

We need two NHL teams. Come on. Now, listen, to the matter at hand. Coleslaw, that's fine. You don't want to like it. That's your business. But then your fancy friends. I, I, I, Scott, Matt Van Pelt and Dan Orlovsky start jumping in and attacking Primantes and saying that they don't like the Coleslaw on Pramantes. Okay. That's crazy. I felt like this is what I wanted to get to. I felt like you maybe got caught up with your fancy friends and like, yeah, you're right, SVP. Oh, Dan, oh, Dan, oh, so smart once again.

And I was like, what is Ryan Clark coming down on the cold? Law on the Permanent? Because you understand, it's not the mayo based. It's the nice vinegar based. It's like an Asian slaw. Dave Demashek, I'm going to share something on your show that I should probably be embarrassed to share. Oh, no. Of the Clark household, there's only one Clark that lived in Pittsburgh for eight years and never ate at Permanatic Brothers. Oh, my goodness. And that would be me. Oh, 25. Okay. Bottom line is, I want to give you a chance. I mean, now you owe two apologies to the everybody on the banks of the three rivers. Okay, it was a bad day for you. Yes. And about eight years, somehow you didn't have that. Okay. See, what I'm calling it, though, going forward is Cole Slaughtergate. That's, I mean, that's what it is. Slaughtergate. So here's the thing, we have a Monday night game there this year. The hotel,

we stayed in is walking distance from Permanis. Actually, I have a picture in Permanagh's from last year. I just went in there to take pictures before the game because the line was too long and I didn't want to cut people. I will, when I get in town on Sunday, sit, have a Permanati Brothers sandwich and I will give the world sort of my review of how excellent that sandwich is. Me, you, and your new friend Aaron Rogers, the three of us go go over there. I'm sure he's never had it either. First, though, before we talk about it. Well, I'm going to say this.

I'm going to say this. There's a lot of people who I felt like were excited to see me in camp. And then there was one. And it's cool, though. Like, it strangely enough made me respect him that, you know, I hit bird up because we were coming to campus, right? And I was like, look, because like I can say it. like I have nothing against dude like you know he's fine and I was like man I love to sit with him I was like you know I'm part of the history there he's the quarterback with our team now I actually don't dislike him you know like I want to sit with him welcome him to steal her nation and just kind of have a conversation I don't want to have a conversation about that I wanted to talk about his career I said over and over again he's the best quarterback I ever played against he declined I I think he had other things to do, which I respect it.

But when we're pulling up to campus, right, he's talking to Arthur Smith, like when we're going up to heel. And so I'm like, well, like for me, if I truly don't have an issue with you, I'm going to speak to you. Like, I'm going to say hello. Like, it's rude not to, in my opinion, you know. And so he was talking to Arthur Smith. I talk to some of the guys I see coming from, like, I think special teams meeting. a roll a window down. I was like, what's up, guys?

You know, Arthur Smith kind of speaks. Aaron Rogers looks at me, and he doesn't say anything, you know. And, but I respected it because he's like, I'm not going to be fake, you know, for whatever he feels or whatever it is. He's like, that's not someone that I fool with in that way, and I'm not going to fake it. And I think, you know, it set the tone that, hey, you and I don't talk, you know what I'm saying? So when I was on the field, like I had to say nothing to him. He didn't say anything to me.

But I did, you know, I did get a good chuckle out of it. You know, Channing thought it was funny. Fred thought it was funny. He was like, there was like, damn, man, he ain't even acknowledge it. And I was like, you know, that's better than it being an issue. Yeah, I mean, I kind of appreciate the, you know, being his genuine self, I suppose. And by the way, I also respect it because I'm a chip on the shoulder kind of guy too. And Kobe was that guy too.

like he remembered, oh, you said bad about me. And now, you know, Manning was, there are, there is a percentage of guys. Everybody loves to say, oh, I don't hear what people say on social media. And then there are a few guys who do. And then they, they holster it and they hold on to it for the rest of their lives. I kind of respect it. Okay, let's talk about Tomlin then and what he's going to be. And Aaron Rogers, the swap essentially for Justin Fields trading places between the start of last season and this season.

And first question, I wonder is if Aaron Rogers will carry the American flag bout onto that field game like he did two years ago. But more importantly, sincerely, what happens if the Steelers lose to Justin Fields and the Jets in week one? I think that this is a massive game to start the season. And I really don't know where they go from there if they were to do it. Yeah, I think this team needs to start fast, period, though, right? Like there are still, there's always going to be questions about Mike Tomlin's teams and the lack of success in the playoffs. You're going to have that. And we've also seen sort of this trend of this team starting hot, starting fast,

and then tailing off toward the end of the season. If you were unable to sign Justin Fields, if you held out in the draft because you knew Aaron Rogers was joining the team in mini camp and it doesn't work early. You lose to the team that now has the quarterback who you essentially benched last year for Russell Wilson. Then I think the chatter does start. But I just don't, like to where I am, like I just don't feel that there is a win for Aaron Rogers and Mike Tomlin and the Pittsburgh Steelers in the sense of the entire season.

If this team doesn't make it to the AFC championship, there are going to be people that say this is a failure, right? If this team doesn't win a wild card game, it's going to be difficult to win the AFC North are stacked as Baltimore is, there's going to be a ton of negativity surrounding this team, whenever there's a loss, whenever there's a setback, whenever Aaron Rogers doesn't play well, if there ever seems like dissension between coach and player. And so I think they're going to be one of the most highly or more highly scrutinized team in the league.

But if you lose that game, at least Pittsburgh-centric, the sky will be falling. I mean, yeah, I think it is, I know I'm talking what sounds like hyperbole. I really don't know where they go from there because the fallout will be so bad by Monday morning in Pittsburgh for what that matters. I think it would be good for him, though. It's never good to lose a game, right? But that will show them exactly what Aaron Rogers, Mike Tomlin, leadership looks like. You understand what I'm saying?

Like what Aaron Rogers shows up to the post-game press conference? How does he protect his teammates? How does he protect Arthur Smith? How does he show from a leadership standpoint the sort of ownership that says, hey, guys, this one was on me. I have to be better because Aaron Rogers has that cachet, Dave, right? If Aaron Rogers says this one is on me, that ain't going to stop how quickly this Taylor puts together this gold jacket he gets in five years after he retires. And so if he could show some of those things in the loss, I think that goes a long way for that team who could find ways to win games. They're going to be great defensively, and I watched him throw a football, and I still, let me really recalibed.

Let me think about this. He threw some footballs that were the best footballs I ever saw thrown on those fields. Wow. In 2025, and it's funny because whatever it's been now, 15 years, I remember talking to you and to Ike Taylor and to Troy Palomalu, individually. You guys weren't agreeing with each other. These were separate conversations and each of you said the same thing. The fast balls that he threw

against you in Super Bowl 45, your reactions were all like, whoa, how did that ball get by me? I thought I had a beat on it. It's striking that you say that 15 years later, but now we're at this place where the name brand of Rogers is probably outstrips the talent that's going to be out there, his

ability with his legs and otherwise. It's not the whip. It's the legs that concerned me with Rogers at this age. But let's talk about Coach T here. And, you know, the pivot does as good a job as any show out there, this millennium, of sort of getting under the helmet, as they say, and making the football players and all the people you talk to, three-dimensional human beings. And so you're keen on making that connection. And with Mike Tomlin, I feel like my sense is from a distance is that for all of his admirers and for Cam Hayward, you know, we'll say, you know, Mike Tomlin's the best. And Aaron Rogers, I want to be with

Aaron. I want to be with Mike Tomlin because he's as good as it gets and all of that. It feels like the compliments that he gets from his players and otherwise are more about like he looks you in the eye when he tells you bad news. You know, he respects you. He tells you what's going on, even if it's not something you want to hear and all of that kind of stuff, which is great and admirable. But is he at this point in 2025 a ball knower on the level of Andy Reed and KOC and all those guys? I'm a little concerned about he's a defensive mind in the age of quarterbacks or superheroes. Yeah, but I think it's disrespectful to not include Mike Tomlin in the ball nor category with guys like KOC who ain't been to

totally fair totally fair but did you know what I mean about offense versus defense yeah like that's a yeah like I just I just think I just think that's a a disrespectful even comparison right because what you're essentially saying that is if you don't know offense you don't know football right because you mentioned because you mentioned KOC like this is a this is a quarterback sort of driven league now, right? And I don't know that it's not always been that. I think because of the rule changes,

it's become more of that that you've got to have, you've got to have that guy. But you know what also makes you look really smart offensively if you just get a really good football player. Well, right. I mean, yeah, it's not a fluky coincidence. The teams that are always in the postseason happen to have. Yeah, you know, and so, and don't get me wrong, though.

Like, no disrespect to KOC, Josh Dobbs played good for two weeks. We've seen Nick Mullins play good for a week. Kirk Cousins had career years there. Sam Darnold is revitalized. There's something in no way taking away from what he can do offensively. That's just not where ball lies. I think, you know, and I pose this question very often, right? You go back to the Killer Bees team, right?

And when I look at the Killer Bees, like, that's the first time I go, or that's the one moment, I'm like, Coach T, he underachieved there. Right? Like that team had the talent. Like, Jacksonville is not supposed to walk into Pittsburgh. As good as they were on defense, they're not supposed

to walk into Pittsburgh and win that game, which people don't remember, if not for a miss call on Miles Jack, that team might go to the Super Bowl and beat New England, which Tom Brady says was a bad call. But then I look at some of these other teams, and I've talked to players that go, those

other teams actually weren't that good. Those teams shouldn't have been playoff teams, right? And so where we hold Mike Tomlin to this higher standard because of where he coaches, because of how quickly he won a championship, I think some of the teams that he has coached, has overachieved. And so he's definitely an extreme ball norm, you know, that's the word we're using. He has an infinite amount of football intellect built on wisdom and experience and also football intellect built on knowledge.

I just think you got to be your best as a team when it's most important. And the thing that scares you, right, or the thing that starts this conversation is in the playoffs, when everything is dialed up a little bit, how do the teams play so badly? How do you play so far away from what we saw during the season? And that's something he has to answer for. That's something that he has to reckon with. But to say that Coach Tomlin isn't as intelligent as these other coaches, I would be disingenuous to agree with that from this standpoint.

We never won a game in a way he said we couldn't win it, or in a way he said or in a way that wasn't congruent with how he said we can win it, and we never lost one that way either. If we lost it, we knew how we could lose it. If we won it, we knew how we could win it. And when we went into the film room, it was never, Coach T didn't tell us that. I wasn't prepared for that.

I didn't think that was the way I could lose it. I never thought to myself, I didn't think that this play would work. I didn't think that this coverage was a good coverage because I knew going into the game it was. Listen, I'm not trying to be glib about Mike Tomlin. I was being cute with, is he a ball knower? I guess what I'm talking about is philosophically the approach to winning games 12 to 11 in the age of the QB is at least a distinct way to win games.

Yeah. Right now. I think, I think, you know, the greatest for raise of the millennium, certainly, right? I think the other thing we have to pay attention to, Dave, is one of, in my opinion, the other best coaches of this era was a special teams coach. Hmm. And he coaches in Baltimore. Right.

right that's interesting right you know i could give you i could give you a hint of why his team's really good now if like some help that that coincidence that we weren't that we were just talking about there so that transition us to here by the way i think coach t's good pal mcdana i think um is kind you know he's obviously propped up by josh allen and you've talked about this mcdermit i said mcdurman i talked to your palmyna kimes about this jeez and now i bring it I bring the same thing to you. Now, you know that she can get distracted by the analytics and say, like, we can't put too much weight on these limited sample sizes that are the playoffs, these big spot games.

I contend that we're ignoring shared reality if Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson don't need to get a Lombardi to be held up on the very short list of all-time greats. How say you, and which one do you think ultimately will, or do you think both of them will break through or will neither ever get that Lombardi trophy? I mean, to say neither one of those dudes wins a Lombardi seems, it would seem almost delusional. They're getting there.

They're getting towards 30, both of them. You know, but it's possible. You know, Dan Marino, who was obviously extremely good, very early, had an opportunity early, didn't have that opportunity again. And it wasn't that he couldn't play. Jim Kelly goes to four. It doesn't win one. Warren Moon never wins a Super Bowl.

So, yeah, it's possible. I think it also is made possible by the fact that the greatest quarterback of this era plays in the same conference. Right? And you can't say that when Josh played, I think it was 20, what was it, 2021? The 13 second game. Divisional playoff game. can't say Josh Allen didn't show up for that game or Josh Allen didn't do what he was supposed to do on his end

to get the Buffalo Bills into the AFC championship. Patrick Mahomes just did more. And so I think there's always that piece of it. I believe that they both win a Super Bowl at some point. I think the Ravens right now on paper are the best team in football. I believe in the playoffs right now, I believe in Josh Allen more than I believe in Lamar Jackson. I do think after the two early terms,

turnovers last year to the bills that Lamar Jackson was the best player from that point on the rest of the game. I think if Mark Andrews catches that ball, we're maybe having a different conversation. But because Mark Andrews doesn't catch the ball, I have to pay attention to the sack that DeMarne Hamlin makes and you put the ball on the grounds picked up by Von Miller. I have to pay attention to the overthrow in the post corner that gives the football back to the Buffalo Bills. And so I believe they both have an opportunity to win it.

think one of them does for sure. I can't say that both of them win it because there's so many players that have to go through one another. Yeah, the math doesn't work out. As long as they only give out one LaBardi at the end of every season, the math doesn't work out for Stroud and Herbert and Dak and everybody else to get one. You also like one, you have to go through the gauntlet of getting there in the AFC, but then you got to beat the other team who's probably going through less than what you've gone through. You know what I mean? Like if you win a Super Bowl and you're Lamar Jackson and you beat Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes on the way there. It's like being Frank Dukes and the Kuma Tate and now you finally got to the championship

in Bloodsport and freaking, oh, boys, who are there shaking his head like that, you know what I mean? Like, it's just difficult to win those games. You don't have to tell me about Bloodsport, but yes, okay, so as we transitioned, last question about movies, and that, that to me is why the playoffs are so great in the NFL versus seven game series and all the other major sports is, it's, it's, it's, you know, It's a little unfair, but the pressure that Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen surely feel out on that field of like, look at everything I've done. Now I got to make a play on this one.

It is their human beings ultimately. And like I say, it almost, you know, do you want to look at the 15 years of my career or that one play? Hey, fair or not. That's what people are going to look at. Okay. I said to you right as we got going here. I think you could successfully leave football talk and just focus on movies based on your offseason. The last question is, because it seemed like you focused in on tear jerkers all through the offseason.

What is the saddest movie death Ryan Clark has ever seen? Whoa, saddest. I think I have the right answer. Thomas J. was tough. Yeah. Thomas J. was a hard one. Yeah. And I'm forgetting his last name right now.

But Augustus, in Fault of Our Stars, was a very, That was a very difficult death for me to handle simply because I had built myself up for an hour and a half to handle her death because she was like the sicker one. And then they took him from me. As a kid, the hardest was Ricky from Boys in Hood. That was a tough one.

That was very sad. He had the whole world in front of him. He was about to be an AC superstar, be a tailback you, and it was all taken away from him. Made the grades. Yeah, so, man, there are so many deaths, bro, that are just, that are just very good. Well, let's start a movie show so we can deep dive. This is our first subject there.

But I do want to plant Apollo Creed. He showed up for an exhibition that night, and Drago had malintent. And, and, I mean, manslaughter at least should be the charge. I know you watch terms of endearment. Deborah Winger's death was at. I think the correct answer is Ellie in Up. That first 20 minutes. Oh, that's tough.

That's the saddest thing. That, you know. that's a tough one and he loved her so much yeah so much you watch a lot of animated movies well of course yeah we you know the kids the last uh you know uh 18 years i've i've watched primarily animated movies so yeah well so about four years ago i went on an animated movie tour as well i just sat down and i turned on disney and like for weeks just watched animated movies that was a good ride this offseason was sad movies i don't really know where this thing is going, you know, but I do get a ton of my analysis from watching movies

because, like, the movies sort of relate to real life, which relate to football at times, you know, so, you know, maybe I'll pop in like once a month and we could just do movie talk. Yeah, I don't care about. There are plenty of people who, oh, I know this about football. It's, I mean, like football is this team's going to win. No, no, that team's going to win. Movies require more depth. And I think, yeah, we should do that. Let's do it. I find the dad in Frozen real problematic, the parents. I got to go back to that one.

I haven't watched Frozen in a while. Well, the one daughter shoots the other daughter in the heart with ice, and it almost kills her. And it's like, oh, my God, what are we going to do? One sibling on the other. What should we do? Like, let's take him to the troll and see what he thinks. Like, what that's what that.

Hey, here's the thing. In animated world, parenting is a very difficult deal. you know like you gotta think about it Fiona's father and mother knew she was an ogre by night yet was mad when she came home with Shrek you know like hey it's just part of life

you're right maybe the animated life is tougher than real life hmm maybe yeah because hey because common sense ain't a cartoon 25 you're the best man you really are good man thank you so much love seeing all your success out there man we still got to get you and me

at times in a booth together that's the dream for me but I still love seeing all the success, man. My man, thank you. Happy for you. Thank you for the time. Enjoy those Steelers. Yes, sir. There he goes.

Number 25, Ryan Clark, everybody. What a guy, am I right? Mike Fuentes, your thoughts. Yeah, I mean, I didn't expect him to have such a, you know, such a feel for movies like he did. I mean, you know, he nominated a great, you know, sad death from the movie Up, which, of course, was brutal for anybody who watched that. But I have a nominee myself, and I'm going to say, Irwin Wade and Saving Pryor of Ryan.

That's the medic character that's played by Giovanni Rebisi. There are a lot of sad deaths in that movie, but he's calling for his mama. Yeah, they're trying to give him treatment and he's bleeding because he has shrapnel and he's calling for his mom. And earlier, he had shared a story about how he used to pretend to fall asleep so he wouldn't have to talk to his mom. Oh, brutal, brutal scene. My two were the obvious one, Bruce Willis at the end of Armageddon and then Maggie

at the end of Million Dollar Baby, Rip My Heart out. The obvious one. Bruce Willis blowing up the moon or whatever the hell he did. All right, listen, I had to make a choice. Tough cuts were made, just like NFL teams to start the week. I wanted to get into Clemson, LSU, but I thought movie talk was more important. I hope you enjoyed it.

I hope you enjoyed the entire episode. Make sure you keep on listening and watching, downloading on YouTube, subscribe there, subscribe wherever you find your audio podcast. We'll be back in one week, and then in two weeks, we go to two shows a week just in time for the regular season.

Until then, thanks so much, Football Americans. It's been a thin slice of heaven.