The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - Alley Oop 10 | Tatum’s Achilles & OKC Is The Perfect Team w/ Amin & Izzy

Episode Date: May 17, 2025

Juju Gotti and the Oddball co-hosts Amin and Izzy discuss Tatum’s achilles, who has the best shot at winning it all, the league’s love for the Knicks, Izzy’s hate for Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, and playoff Jimmy Butler. Alley Oop talks all things basketball and hoopers. #NBA #Playoffs #NBAPlayoffs Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It sounds like Jonathan Minga, get ready to learn New Orleans Pelicanese. What's up my brothers, how y'all feeling man? Great Juju. Great. Happy to be here. Hell yeah man. I always like to start this off giving out flowers, little rose petals here and there. Ameen, my brother, where would I be in this industry without you, bro?

You always show love to me. Walk me through the ropes, show me the ropes, and introduce me to friends of yours that I couldn't believe I have relationships with now. So brother, I want to thank you in front of the world for always being there to support I'm not sure if your friends are yours that I couldn't believe I have relationships with now. So brother, I want to thank you in front of the world for always being there to support me and salute to you always, sir.

Introduce him to Brad Williams. A relationship I would cherish forever and then Israel brother like you always hit me up in times where I'm I'm doubting myself or it's like you have a radar you dig like you'll give me a call and pick me right up out of that slum on me and like I'll be sitting here doubting myself like damn man I'm not good enough or I'm not this or people don't like me or whatever the case is and here come my dog Izzy just hit me up just with a check-in

call let that be a message out there too too, like, check on your friends, dog, because sometimes that check-in be all they need to get their life right back on the track, bro. So, Izzy, thank you always for the call and check-in. They mean more to me than you know, you feel me? My pleasure, man. I know I've been in your spot. I'm always in your spot, so I know it's helpful to just talk about it. Hell yeah, brother. But we got a lot of basketball to talk about, man.

These playoffs are running rampant right now. Jason Tatum, Achilles, Pop, the Pop heard around the world and scraped through my damn heart as a Celtics fan. What do y'all think the future now looks like in Boston? Not even just this playoff series but moving forward to next year. Well I mean I think the big thing Juju is already there were question marks, right? We were already before the Celtics went down 3-1 in the series, now 3-2. Now with a Jason Tatum ruptured Achilles that changes everything because it's like alright we're definitely not gonna be probably championship contention with a Jason Tatum ruptured Achilles, that changes everything because it's like,

all right, we're definitely not gonna be probably championship contention worthy next year. I know they're gonna give it their best this year, but the reality is the East has gotten better over time and losing an MVP caliber player like Jason Tatum, you just can't just recover from that. And you're paying the highest payroll in the league. So I think they're gonna have to make some hard decisions.

And then like I said, hard decisions that were already on the way, but kind of accelerated by this injury. You know what this reminds me of Juju reminds me of the 2019 Warriors, right? They had so many deep runs into the playoffs and then they just physically were falling apart. KD, Klay Thompson, and they had to take a step back.

The Warriors as a whole. Yes, KD left and with this team, maybe you move on from Jalen Brown, maybe you don't, but you can still sort of, it's like a breather. It's a little bit of a reset. Yeah, you do a little, change a couple of pieces here and there, but know that your main guys effectively need like a year to breathe. Like that's what it is. Need a year to like take off the championship pressures and physically to take off the physical pressures and then sort of reset, sort of come back refreshed

in 26 and see, you know, maybe a couple of new pieces, but they know the formula can get them championships the same way the Warriors did. And you know, they came back and won it in 2022 with and see maybe a couple new pieces, but they know the formula can get them championships the same way the Warriors did. And they came back and won it in 2022 with different pieces around Steph and Draymond and Clay. Hell yeah, bruh. Speaking of pieces, I'd like to give a shout out to one of the biggest pieces in Boston 76 lore right now.

Luke Cornette, my brother. You got my heart and soul. You feel me? Brother, you step up. I don't know about soul. I don't know about soul, but he's got heart. Okay, you got my heart and soul. You feel me? Brother, you step the- I don't know about soul. I don't know about soul, but he's got heart. Okay, he got my heart. I can't give you the soul yet.

Well, I don't know. I was looking at him like, damn, young Bill Russell out there tonight. Google him. Google him. But yeah, man, look at the surrounding pieces in Boston right now. They definitely should, in my opinion, be all a little bit worried about their future in Boston just because of what you're saying, because like you say, the money was not necessarily

gonna be there next year. Now with Jason Tatum injured, do you guys think there are any kind of sweepstakes for any kind of, I wanna say, you know what I mean, who could they get or what could they do? I think the injury kind of messes things up though, right? Because now it's like, so no one's going to want to trade for the hurt guy. Right, go there and wait a year for Jason or you're not going to want to trade for him

like you said. Right. And then the other one is if they trade Galen Brown, now it's like, okay, so you just really punting on the year in a way that I don't know if that city is kind of accustomed to having a kind of punt, right? Because let's be honest, without J.C. Tam, I don't think they're a championship team, but they're good enough. I think they're good enough to win 45 to 50 games, make it to the playoffs and all that.

And then who knows, maybe because he's young, he rehabs faster and he can get back in time for a playoff push. So it just, it kind of makes things a little bit uncomfortable in that way. But let me ask you this, Juju, had he not gotten hurt, let's just assume they would have lost to the Knicks in this round, even if he was healthy. And I'm the owner, I come to you, Juju,

you're the GM. You're Brad Stevens and I said, hey man, you don't have to break this up. I don't care which one you send out. One of them got to go. Who do you send out? I'm unfortunately sending out my brother JB. You did? It's

according to the piece I'm getting back. If I'm getting back a Yana's caliber or someone of that caliber, JB. My brother's been real I think it's time for you to shine somewhere else, but if I'm getting just I don't know Whoever out there just someone to compliment Jason Tatum. I don't know if I would do it I would like to run it back with this squad probably minus Chris Stats for Zengas I think he's out of here regardless.

Really? You don't think that his uniqueness is enough to want them to keep him to stay and maybe you know let him stay maybe he plays you know 70 games next year? Maybe it's a big worry like with this mysterious illness that he's going through I think he had like one point in the last game versus the Knicks in the playoffs. I think he's been hurt more than he's been available. And you know what the biggest ability is in the NBA. So it's like. Yeah, cause if he can't do that, he can't play. Right.

You can get something for him. I think you should shop him at least. Golden State Warriors tried to rebuild it this year with quote unquote playoff Jimmy. I have never seen a regression quite as regressible as quote unquote playoff Jimmy. I think how many shots it took like eight, eleven shots? Eleven in the last one. Like what is that? Can y'all explain that? Do y'all not have any idea what that was? I'm gonna let Izzy go first Because he's got a hot take on this. Well, look, we've known that we've known this is look,

if he would have done that in a Miami uniform this year, everybody would have said, look, he's not trying. He's clearly trying to get out of here. Okay. And I don't really care if you're telling me he had an illness. He's on the floor. He looks okay. You know what I'm saying? If you're going to tell me his butt was hurting, I'm pretty sure I could shoot you up and you'll be fine. Like, it wasn't just that he wasn't doing, when he was dribbling,

he wasn't looking to score half the time. He was just kind of going to the middle of the floor and just looking around and trying to find somebody. And I told people when he got there in San Francisco, there's gonna be at least a dozen times where you're gonna scratch your head and be like, why didn't you take that shot as you were flying by the rim, you're not even looking at it.

If he was Ben Simmons, you would say something's wrong with that dude. Right? So the idea that there's nothing, nobody would have said anything to him if he went out there and took 40 shots. Even if he went 10 for 40, it would be like, damn if he went out there and took 40 shots even if he went 10 for 40 or like them he went out shooting his bullets and you know we ended up where we

ended up but he was just sitting there like almost as if he was trying to make a point sometimes on running off its can do anything without Steph Curry and like I don't know if that's how he was thinking my guess is yeah he wanted to win but it just wasn't showing it and so it's one of those situations where my eyes are lying to me Like I know when people are really taking like ownership and accountability and trying their hardest to win

It didn't feel like he was taking ownership. Not at all. Do you do my counterpoint is why aren't we giving any credit to the Temporals for having a great game plan? But this is what I'm saying. I mean, if he goes 10 for 40, good defense. He tried. You know what I'm saying? I get it was good defense, but Jimmy seemed good defense. Jimmy was the number one option at the Miami Heat.

He's seen people scheming for him defensively in the playoffs, and he still put a 50 against the Bucs. That's true. I think the best defense is not making you miss shots. The best defense is when you don't take the shot to begin with and that's what that's kind of what the Timberwolves did. They they but okay if my counter to that is mine. What was it? Was it great defense that was making him just walk to the free throw line and look around? Was that great defense because I didn't see him attack the defense. That was my problem too, bro. Like you say, bro, at least try hard,

throw up some air balls, shoot a ball over the basket. I would think you care, but to not shoot at all, I don't know what that is. Are you selling tickets? I don't know, Dre mind got fined $50,000. I'm saying, you know what? You know what I mean? Salute the draft Kings.

But I think that, bro, when they're, I think more importantly, playoff Kaminga was more of a thing than playoff Jimmy. Did Kaminga kind of earn himself money this year for next year? Or did- Somewhere else. If he earned some money, it ain't gonna be a golden state, that's for sure. And that's crazy to me.

What was, what do you guys think the thinking behind benching Kaminga for so long during these playoffs was? Like what was that? Well it actually is probably the most fair criticism of Steve Kerr, not specifically with Kaminga, but that when he doesn't find players that are, not seamlessly, but work into his offense, doesn't know what to do with with them and I don't know if that's true or Not you know you could we have to wait and see if coming to go somewhere else and realize that you know Not a great basketball IQ guy

Maybe doesn't really have a whole lot in his bag that maybe he's just you know a piece that in the regular season you can Play in the playoffs you can't trust we don't know that yet But I will say that it was the commonly or the most commonly heard critique of Steve Kerr that yet, but I will say that was the commonly, the most commonly heard critique of Steve Curry. So when Steph Curry is out there, they want to play a very specific style of basketball. It operates a lot on feel, on reads. And Kaminga is a guy who hasn't played a lot of basketball in his life, even as a now like a four year player in the NBA, and one year in the G League, Ignite program.

He just, he doesn't have the same kind of feel as lesser talented guys that they've been playing out there. So when Steph Curry's out there, they want you to cut certain ways. They want you to screen. They want you to relocate. They want you to do all these things that he doesn't really do that well.

With Steph Curry not out there, then you have a need. I need someone who could just go get me one. And Kominga, that's why you see him play well because that more suits him. It's not like he's Kyrie out there, but it's like in terms of I'm quick, I got a great first step and I'm explosive. I get head and shoulders beyond my defender and go finish at the rim. I'm an improving jump shooter, I make shots or whatever, but it's a much like more suited game for him to play kind of traditional basketball the way it's played versus

what the Warriors are doing. The other part, and this is not his fault for sure, but once they got Jimmy, you're playing Jimmy, you're playing Draymond, they're two non-shooters really. They get. They have their moments, but for the most part, they're non-shooters. You play Kamingo with them, and that's three of them dudes, all at the same time. It gets really, really hard for them to have the spacing that they want. So it's just like, it's one of those things where, like, I don't even think they don't think he's a good player. I think it's just kind of like, to quote my man Randy Jackson from American Idol,

it's just not for me, dawg, you know? Right. It sounds like Jonathan Minga, get ready to learn New Orleans Pelicanese. Yo, I know John Halliburton is somewhere waving his flag right now. Victory laughing around Applebee's, Chili's, or wherever he's allowed on the premises these days. Are the Pacers a real contender for the NBA Championship this year? I think what people don't see with the Pacers is defensively.

Oh. They can be really good. They play so fast, and you know, Tarry's Halliburton out there, probably the weakest defender of the group. But, uh, with miles Turner in the middle, Andrew Nemhard played a Pascal Siakam, like they have a very strong defense that if you don't keep up with them and they start going on a little streak, like all of a sudden it's a 15 point,

20 point game. Like they have a little bit of that, uh, old Phoenix suns team in them where you look up in the first quarter, it could be 45 to 20 and you just don't know what happened. Like Halliburton, I don't know how many people appreciate how much control he has over the game. A lot of times they look at like what's the score numbers, what's the shooting numbers. He's controlling the game in terms of setting up almost like the pieces on a chessboard. Call it even when they get the ball out of his

hands, if you see like when teams double Halliburton early to get the ball out of his hands, watch him, he starts pointing like where the ball should be so that I'm going to get it back over here. Like it's only a handful of guys in the league that I see do that consistently. Dreymon's another one where he'll start pointing to people, pass it to him, and then he's gonna give it over there. So he's still kind of controlling even though he doesn't have the ball in his hands. The thing about the Pacers though, that I guess I know I hadn't given them as much credit for. I thought last year like oh he did a great job defensively but then I was like well maybe they just

locked in for a couple of months they're really good defensively man they got a lot of dogs on a defensive end and I think that's what gives them an opportunity to win these games yes they push the pace yes they could score but like the way they're guarding Nemhart Ben Shepard Aaron Neesmith Benedict Matherin Miles Turner like these guys are all dogs defensively. And that's what we- Shut up, Niesmith. Right, Niesmith, underrated defender.

You could just- The one that got away from Boston. Aye, oh my goodness. Imagine us with him. We're all about vibes here. I did want to talk about Miles Turner because a few years ago, like he was so frustrated, man. The Pacers were just absolutely like middle of the pack

to bad, his people were talking to anybody saying, hey. He's on the block every single day. Like a mothalow on the wire. Right, slinging on things. And it's like, he's asking, his people are just wondering, why is he so underrated? Can we get him somewhere else? Maybe get him some attention. I'm just like, that's a great question.

I don't know the answer to that. I'm not a GM. And then now he's getting his due, right? He's getting, not only is he playing well and they're winning, but you realize, man, this dude is long, can move, can shoot, can block shots, a great modern day big. Whereas before you didn't really know what to do

or say with Miles Turner. So shout out to Miles for sticking in there and getting his due eventually. Right, every time I see Miles Turner attempt a three, I'm like, oh, that's water, that's butter. I rarely see him miss a three, no matter how ridiculous it is. So yeah, salute to Miles Turner, man.

And like you say, Neesmith, underrated defender. You can put him on Donovan Mitchell. You can put him on, I think, moving forward, Jalen Branson and just set it and forget it. He's going to do a great enough job to where he's going to make your number one option have to struggle, man. Is that flex seal? Set it and forget it? No, it's different. I think it's flex Seal. On the boat? Right. Salute to Sham Wow.

Speaking of Wow's, the Oklahoma City Thunder versus the, right now the Nuggets, they're in a gridlock. What do you think are the Oklahoma City Thunder's chances, not only versus the Nuggets, but versus the field, like in my opinion, they the the ones that people have to prepare against. Juju since January I've been saying it and we're gonna sit here people gonna sit here and try and figure out reasons why they they won't win. Yeah. People are searching for reasons why they won't win instead of accepting. Man, they're just the best team in the league top to bottom. They're deep, they defend, everybody defends. Who's the guy on that team. Even like

so many of these other teams that we say, oh, they're really good defensively. There's always a guy like him though. Not him. Yeah. Yeah. You can't say that about anyone on Oklahoma City. They're all great. Isaiah Joe maybe. I don't know. No, I'm with you. I'm 100% with you and I think this is a perfect second round series for them this season assuming they can get past it. It is because you know the same round they got knocked out last year doing it against the only one left

right because Jason Tatum being out you can't really go hard of a champion when they're missing their best player. So really the heart of a champion team and in the Denver Nuggets and this was an interesting part about that last game game 5 which I still think this game can go to the series can go 7 but it was a point there in the fourth quarter where it felt like, all right, if this keeps going this way, Oklahoma City is going to have a lot of explaining to do. Like, maybe Shay's overrated, maybe their supporting cast is overrated because neither

one of them were overwhelming in any sort of way in a way that you say for certain, hey, in the playoffs against the best of teams, this is how we're going to win. And then they went and did it like the second half of that fourth quarter it was Shea doing it and it was you know other guys hitting threes with Lou Dorton and a couple other guys but for the most part they reminded themselves or told themselves hey if we go to what we know works in the playoffs it still works it might not work every time but it's going to work enough for us to win four out of seven and I thought that was so critical such a huge game for them for their continued growth in game five that if they win this series, yeah, I absolutely have them as a favorite. I think their post game presses after the game is just such a metaphor for that team.

The whole squad pull up, no matter who gets to interview, the whole squad is behind them putting towel on towel, making fun of the announcer or whatever the case is. They are an actual team. I think that the series before this, I don't know how much Jalen Williams, the other Jalen Williams, J-Dub versus J-Will. Right, right. I don't know how much playing time he got in the other series, but this series, he's

one of the perfect defenders against the Joker who you can say alright go out and use your files You feel me like what do you think about the team? I mean like like I think they are like the perfect team Yeah, and it's like you know it's sad. I'm kind of thinking ahead I'm like man. I think you know obviously I've been saying they're gonna win the title this year but like, there's a part of me that was like, oh, it's gonna be sad when they have to break it up because at some point, like this,

what you see right now doesn't have a, like, in the history of pro basketball or pro sports really, it don't last forever. And right now it's a feel good story. It's like, this is, the irony is, this is what you would want people to like, kind of think of when they think of the NBA. But because they played Oklahoma, everyone's like, oh, boring, whatever. It's kind of like what happened in San Antonio, like the Spurs were like, that's what you want the NBA to be about. But just because

they were San Antonio, I was like, that's boring. I wonder if the Oklahoma City Thunder were the Dallas Thunder, if they were the Chicago Thunder, like would we think of them in a different way? Would we be more excited about them? I think, look, if you switch teams, Shay Gildes Alexander and Anthony Edwards, Oklahoma City Thunder would be the most popular team in the world.

I think it's just a matter of playing style. And it's nothing against Shay, like, it's- You don't like Shay. If you're a- No, no, he's a hooper's hooper, man. Like he knows, like I admire him. It's just not like, I'm not gonna sit down and just watch his game over and over.

You sat down and you called him a foul merchant. Oh. On the record. Yo, jump sideways. You're jumping sideways, man. You're a foul merchant. Like, those are two, you can, they're not mutually exclusive.

You can have all the skill and the ability in the world that still be a foul merchant Like I can respect your ability and still say hey stop stop doing that coming this fall Shake your juice Alexander is the foul merchant Because you're gonna join the list be careful. Right. We look at everybody love these segments, but we haven't put enough respect on the

Timberwolves efforts. Like you said earlier, the Timberwolves, they did the job. They can only beat who they face. Do you think the Minnesota Timberwolves have a legitimate shot this year, moving past the Western Conference finals and actually winning the finals. I mean, when you have a player like Anthony Edwards, like, look, they have two things. One, they like the Thunder, although not to the same level, they got an elite defense.

You start there, it gives you a chance. Then you say, do we have an elite offensive player? Like the type of player who could take over a game, not once or twice, but like every game in the series and could put his foot on their neck when it's time to do. It's Anthony Edwards, right? But also Julius Randall, who I said on oddball today, I had to fill out the apology form. I didn't think you could win. I didn't think he would execute. I didn't think he could stay within himself. I mean, they traded a cat for a dog.

Right. Oh, I like that. Bro, the rare trade that has so far worked out for both sides. And this part is going blow, this part's gonna make Amin crazy, but if the NBA finals are that AT&T commercial, DiVincenzo versus the Villanova boys in New York, holy cow, that's gonna be crazy. Oh man, I didn't even think about that.

What do you see in a potential Wolves versus Knicks finals? What would that look like? I see an edit where the wolves win and they're tossing him the Larry O'Brien trophy and he's like, ah, yeah, thanks guys. Look, that's one of the, I would say the league definitely wants the New York Knicks in any capacity to get to the finals

because every other combination, you're just like, hmm, we don't like small towns apparently. But yeah I I would this is what I love about the NBA right now is like growing up and I say growing up I mean all the way up until I was about 38 roughly. It was very predictable like you could probably pick 45 teams and say for certain that's going to be the final for those 5 teams are going to be in the final for now you don't even know who the champion is going to be and I love that I love to

be able to dissect what that champion did to become that because they separated themselves somehow. It wasn't just talent like I mentioned the 2022 Warriors again, that's a team. They were not the most talented team that year. They knew how to win. They were healthy when it mattered. And so if you start combining those formulas every single year, it's just like hey, the playoffs are just going to be you don't you don't really. And that's what I love about it.

If the Nixon the wolves make the final, the person who should be walking around telling everybody kiss their ass is Jay Wright. I did this. I run your league basically. Nah, man, like I think it look, it's probably at this point, assuming that the thunder get past Denver, it's the most profitable combination you can get. Minnesota being the closest thing to a big market in the West and then the Knicks not only being a big market, but also being a market where a team where you have a bunch of people that love them and then the Knicks, not only being a big market, but also being a market where, a team where you have a bunch of people that love them and then a bunch of people who can't stand

the people who love them. And that's real key. It's the reason why dynasties are so important to the business of sports, because they usually have a lot of bandwagon fans and a lot of people who just hate them for being successful. Well, the Knicks don't have bandwagon fans, they have Knick fans, who are a lot of, and those people are annoying enough for you to can't stand them even without them winning.

So it gives you kind of like a dynasty feel without any of the dynasty pricing. If the Knicks beat the Celtics, I got three words for you. Go New York, go New York, go. You dig it? Because that's who I would love to see like no matter what the basketball is, them being involved, it's just more fun to watch on TV. You dig? But what about the Mr. Overrated? The most overrated guy?

Ah, get him out of here. Salute his dad. I hope you're having fun watching this shit at Chili's. But yeah, thank y'all so much for pulling up on the alley, Oop, man. Thank y'all so much for joining me, man. But yeah, bro, check out my dollars on oddball every single week, every single day you can, you feel me? Thank y'all so much. And again, like I say, Ameen, you mean so much to me. I love you, brother.

Same to you, Izzy. Thank you so much. I love you, brother. And catch us on the same channel, the same bad time next week. Ya diggers!