The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - #BecauseMiami: Dogs & Cats Eaten Together...Mass Hysteria

Episode Date: September 20, 2024

The dynamic duo of Donald Trump and JD Vance continue to spread falsehoods about Haitian asylum-seekers in Springfield, Ohio, making meals out of the pets of residents there. Florida state representative Dotie Joseph tells Billy Corben how these lies are affecting the Haitians living in the United States as a whole. Also: We have Sam Stein from The Bulwark to talk about the hot mess that is Laura Loomer. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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one specially developed helmet, thousands of high intensity focused ultrasound waves, zero incisions, and that very same day, two steady hands. From innovation to action, Sunnybrook is special. Learn more at sunnybrook.ca slash special. In Springfield, they're eating the dogs, they're eating the cats. Eat the cat, eat, eat the cat. The American media totally ignored this stuff until Donald Trump and I started talking about cat memes. They're eating the dogs.

I have to create stories. Eat the cat. You just said that this is a story that you created. Eat the cat. Eat the cat. City officials have not said it's not true. They said they don't have all the evidence. They said they have no evidence. They're eating the dogs.

Springfield, Ohio, a city on edge due to several bomb threats, following those baseless claims about Haitian migrants. These discussions about Haitians eating dogs and cats and other things needs to stop. They're eating the dogs. The media loves to say that the Haitian migrants, they are here legally.

I'm still gonna call them an illegal alien. We will do large deportations from Springfield, Ohio. We're gonna get these people out. We're bringing them back to Venezuela. Eat the cat. If the path to prosperity was flooding your nation with low wage immigrants, America would be the most prosperous country in the world.

Did I miss anything while I was gone? No, you didn't. Oh alright good. I'm glad it's been an uneventful hiatus while I've been off working my new documentary from Russia with Lev premieres tonight on MSNBC at 9pm from executive producer Rachel Maddow. Be sure to check that out. Man, there's so much to talk

about. I don't even know where to begin, but I certainly feel a particular responsibility being from Miami, living adjacent to Little Haiti for a lot of the time that I've lived in Miami, in the North Miami neighborhood, home to the largest Haitian population outside of Haiti, a nation in a almost perpetual state of humanitarian crisis. The United States of America, Miami in particular, we are, what are we, a block away from the Freedom Tower here in downtown Miami, which was a bastion of hope

and prosperity and freedom, hence Freedom Tower. It was practically a lighthouse for immigrants from the Caribbean to say that this is a place where we can be free of the tyranny and the violence of our home countries and find a place where we can fit in and have community and pursue whatever our version of the American dream is going to be, to work hard and to advance and to have provide food safety shelter for our families and

we're having a very different conversation in this country this week Roy Donald Trump thinks you're Haitian what is your favorite flavor cat? I'm not so I want to know maybe Robin chicken type flavor. I don't know. Yeah, you haven't been to the new Haitian restaurant Tap Tap Tabby for the Siamese griot. Yeah, I want to know. See, let me say this about this is that let me check my privilege for a moment.

It is very easy as a white man in America to have laughs at this because it is absurd. Not only the conspiracy theory and the lie, but the manner in which the former president and possibly future president of the United States blurted this out like a lunatic in the middle of an internationally televised presidential debate of only the two people who our country has nominated to be the next commander in chief. The one thing I do agree with Trump on that he said that was factual at that debate is

that people around the world are watching this and laughing at us. That's probably true and not for the reason that he thinks. Okay, he's got to look in the mirror to find that reason. But the point is, is that this is not just as the media calls it misinformation, baseless claims, false accusations. We just call them good old fashioned lies. Okay. And this was in fact a rumor started by a neo-Nazi group. I'm not casting aspersions on them.

They are proud, proud self-proclaimed white supremacists who marched weeks earlier in Springfield under a swastika. Okay? So this is not me casting aspersions on them. And this is the former and possibly future president of the United States perpetuating lies and conspiracy theories from a neo-nazi group and this racist hate speech has consequences and those stakes are life and death the targeting of a minority group over 33 bomb threats schools being shut down the

Republican governor and Trump supporter, Dwyane coming out and saying, please stop. This is bullshit. A Division 3 football team had to cancel an away game, the Wittenberg Tigers. The mayor has asked him not to come. He's coming anyway. It's funny, but it's not funny. And joining us now, Florida lawmaker, Dottie Joseph. She was born in Haiti. She

has been in the United States since about 1982, in South Florida specifically. She was first elected to the Florida House in 2018, at the time of which I was a proud constituent of hers. And she has been reelected every two years since Representative Joseph. Welcome to the program. I know that you've probably been a bit of a go-to lawmaker on this issue for obvious reasons, but I just want to ask you, are you okay? How do you feel about this? How does your... I mean, Miami, Florida is home to the largest Haitian diaspora in the entire country,

or the entire world probably outside of Haiti. You have 500,000 Haitians in Florida, 300,000 in Miami. I've never had a concern about pets going missing. How are you feeling? How are your constituents feeling being targeted by the former most powerful man in the world? I have to start off with a deep breath. First of all, thank you for having me on the program.

I will say this. I'll answer the question for me personally, but then I'll answer the question in terms of the community. Because you said it earlier, like, it's not funny. At the end of the day, we can try to make jokes about it and the memes and all of that stuff, but it's not funny. Because what we realize is that Trump and his sidekick this con man duo

is basically Targeting us the Haitian community for two reasons number one because we're immigrants and then number two because we're black So it's like a two for one when you're racist and xenophobic. Those are easy targets That being said, we know why they're doing it. I want people to be clear about what this actually is. This is actually their attempt to scapegoat an immigrant community, a hardworking immigrant community because of their policy failures. What am I talking about? Springfield is a microcosm of issues happening all around these United States.

So specifically, we're talking about the affordable housing crisis. We hear about rising rents there. I'm in communication with people on the ground. I have a pastor from my area who we regularly travel to different areas where there are issues within the Haitian-American community, whether it was in the border, at Texas to support the community there when there was some stuff going on. And same thing in Ohio. And from my conversations with people on the ground helping with the community there, as well as with the local NAACP and other organizations that are supporting, we're identifying what the issues are because some lawmakers, both Democrat and Republican, are actually interested in fixing issues. But what this country is suffering from And I think that's a very important point. I think that's a very important point. I think that's a very important point.

I think that's a very important point. I think that's a very important point. I think that's a very important point. I think that's a very important point. I think that's a very important point. I think that's a very important point. I think that's a very important point. I think that's a very important point.

I think that's a very important point. I think that's a very important point. I think that's a very important point. in actually fixing problems and actual governance, and they just wanna play political football with people's lives. And this is no exception. Within the Republican Party right now, there's basically a civil war. You have some of the more conservatives, Aloe Reagan, who was the last president

to actually pass some kind of immigration reform. And in the past, we had Cuban immigrants and Haitian immigrants working together with federal legislation to address real needs here in Florida. But what we've seen right now is a takeover of the Freedom Caucus within the Republican Party, led by our own governor here, and folks like Trump and a whole bunch of others who tout theories like the Great Replacement Theory. The reason that's relevant is that's why they have this animus towards immigrant populations in general.

And make no mistake, they might've talked about Haitians. Today it's Haitians, before it was Mexicans, before it was Venezuelans, sometimes it's Cubans. It really just depends on what kind of day, because at the end of the day, they don't see a difference between black and brown communities. They just otherize them. And I want people to understand that while this particular community

seems to be the one that was singled out, they are attacking all immigrant communities. This former president said he's going to deport Haitians to Venezuela, right? There's no connection between the two, but that just shows how ignorant he is about anything related to Black and brown people. Now imagine this person was in charge of our foreign policy when he was here the last time. And make no mistake, his policy threats are real. He's talking about doing mass deportations, not just to Haitians, but all immigrant people. He's talking about denationalizing people of their citizenship. These are things that are very real threats

to the entire immigrant community. And while he might placate or pretend to placate a community today, in order to garner votes and to get their support, the moment he's there in power, he makes clear even before he's in office who he actually is. So people can ignore that if they want to, but I want people to be very clear about what

that is. That's the immigrant component. When we talk about the racial component, we see what he's doing. These are all old plays that happen time and time again. We had one person who doesn't deserve to be named on TV talking about, yeah, we don't want these Haitian NIGGRs, right? So because for them, they just see black people. So as people are targeting people, whether it's in Springfield or anywhere else, if there

are not a lot of black people, they just go ahead and say that they're Haitian. In fact, the woman, there was an actual woman who was alleged to have eaten a cat, there's body camera footage of it, was a black American woman who is from Ohio, has no immigrant connections. Now, am I saying this to say that black people eat? No, that's ridiculous. This woman had a mental health crisis and that's what's going on. But the same way when the police stops you, they don't stop to ask you what country you came from. If you're a black, you're gonna experience this country

in a way that other people don't. That is a reality, that is a fact. So as we head into this election cycle, I want people to be very clear about what the options are. And I'm not here to advocate for one party or another, because for me at the end of the day, it's not about your political party, it's about who your political party.

It's about who you're fighting for and who you're fighting against. Are you helping people or are you hurting people? And the former president and his sidekick have made it very clear that they don't actually care about people. This community has been under over 30 bomb threats between their schools, their hospitals,

and their government buildings, plus colleges that have had to shut down or be on lockdown or all kinds of things. And this is happening not just in Springfield, but all around the country. And I want people to know this because that community in a bipartisan way have repudiated the rhetoric, they have discounted the lies,

and every legitimate media outlet has made it clear that this is lies. So it's not even about what the lie is or isn't. It's about this tactic that they're trying to make people fight against each other and stir division because they have no real policy solutions. Rep. Joseph, I want to ask you, I want to fact check some of this though.

We've had the sidekick as you referred to him, JD Vance who looks like a Chucky doll with a fake beard on. What he has said basically admits to making it up. Number one, admits to making it up proudly because it got the conversation started about them being liars and racist I suppose. But he said he understands that under the law, these are legal immigrants, but he's going to keep calling them illegal aliens, which is the exact opposite.

Saying that something or someone that is legal is illegal is the opposite of the truth. It is a lie. It is through the looking glass. White is black, black is white. We're all upside down. Like, what the hell? So what do you is black, black is white, we're all upside down. Like, what the hell? So what do you make of, oh yes, I know they're legal, but I'm gonna keep calling them illegal. All right, so somebody who has a front row seat to the political games played by this particular element

of the Republican party, I will tell you, they don't care about the truth. They don't care about solutions. They don't care any of that. Because when they're talking about illegals, they, they, now I'm talking about not just the politicians, but radical right-wing organizations have funded anti-immigrant messaging to push words like illegals and border crisis to the tune of $11 to $14 million.

And the reason they're doing that is they're trying to vilify people and to cause confusion. And they don't care if people are actually legal or illegal because for them, they're still an other. It doesn't matter where you come from. They see you as not a white Anglo-Saxon Protestant. So if you do not fit into that mold with money. So let me, let me even be clear. So that's part of the division that they're trying to make is to pit it against black and white, but they don't even

actually care about black or white people because the economic issues that we're all experiencing, whether it's a community and economic decline that has literally been revitalized by the presence of this Haitian, Mexican, and other people in that community that have literally brought it back to life from filling jobs that people wouldn't fill to starting new businesses in the area and a whole host of other things

that have brought this community back to life. They don't care about those actual contributions. They don't care about the actual role that immigrants play, whether it's those who are literally dying, building bridges in Maryland or other places here, dying of heatstroke in South Florida. They don't care about the actual people. They just care. This faction just cares about playing political games and scoring cheap political points.

So to support what you're saying, they absolutely don't care if the people are legal or not, because they want to other them. They want to vilify them because that's the only card they have to play. They don't have any substance to stand on. You heard them during the last debate asking about things like healthcare, something that impacts all Americans, unless you're super rich and can just hop on your private jet and see whatever specialists you want. Everybody else has to pay attention to that, but they don't care about

the needs of everybody else, but they want people pitted against each other so they can distract you from the fact that the only color they care about is green. You've already answered my next question, which was about the actual influx of Haitian immigrants in and around Springfield, which was welcomed, which was essential, which has helped to revitalize the community. Obviously infrastructure issues come along with that that have to be addressed by a local government, but they were welcomed with open hearts and open arms and have helped to revitalize this city economically.

I mean, it's just immigrants have immigrants built this country. They continue to support it and drive the economy of the most prosperous nation in the world. And I don't want to there's no group of people anywhere that you can paint with the same brush that is a monolith. You can't say, oh, all Haitians are this, or all Jews are that, or all white people are this. But if you wanna generalize people,

I can just as easily generalize as a native Floridian and lifelong Miamian spent my entire life in the largest Haitian diaspora outside of Haiti in the world. My impression of the Haitian people, which is again, totally inappropriate, but hardworking, decent, peaceful, loving people who have been an essential part of our community

in South Florida for the entirety of my life. So if we're just gonna generalize people and what they're like, I can just as easily anecdotally in my experience and I have much more experience than even Donald Trump does who knows more about anything and everything than anybody else does. Tremendous. I want to play this clip for you before we go in our last minute because Donald Trump is immune to the truth, to facts, and I think there was a really interesting thing

unrelated to this issue but he was talking about the debate that he had with Vice President Kamala Harris and the fact that the moderators were fact-checking him but not her. And he makes a very interesting observation about the audience at that debate. That's fine. And they didn't correct her once and they corrected me everything I said practically once and they corrected me everything I said practically. I think nine times or 11 times. And the audience was absolutely, they went crazy. And the real, I thought it was, I walked off, I said that was a great debate, I loved it. You know, you got a lot of people watching,

I guess we had 75 million people watching, something like that. And you have to do well, you can't do badly. Let's forget the fact that he's completely delusional, of course, that he's trying to spin that he won the debate, because the people who live in this new silo only here in this echo chamber, he won, he won, he won. But I think we buried the lead a little bit. He said the audience went crazy. There was no audience

for the debate. There was no live audience. It was part of the agreement in the debate. Even Joe no live audience. It was part of the agreement in the debate. Even Joe Biden doesn't think there was a live audience in his last debate with Donald Trump. What are we talking, is it that he is such a pathological liar? Is it that there's some kind of cognitive decline? I'm not a psychologist, neither are you,

but what is going on? He's just incapable of telling the truth. He's just constantly making stuff up in the moment that like he's just, he doesn't know it. Is it on purpose? Is it by act? Is he just, in the words of Nikki Haley earlier this year, she said the first party that retires

its 80 year old candidate will win this election. Is he just losing it? Like, what do you make of the audience went crazy and there is he hearing people or seeing people that aren't there? That's a significant concern if he's gonna be commander-in-chief. What is happening here, Representative Joseph? I think multiple things are happening. I think he's a lying sociopath. I think sometimes he even convinces himself of the lies that he tells as it pertains to the audience.

He's just used. So I'm sure we've all heard of these snake oil people. They just make stuff up. It sounds good, they just say it. They don't actually take the time. So two things are going on. Sometimes they don't actually take the time to ascertain if it's true or not,

because they're just trying to big themselves up. They're slick talkers, they're con men. We all know con men. That's how con men are. They don, they're slick talkers, they're con men. We all know con men. That's how con men are. They don't care about what the actual truth is. As long as it sounds nice and it sounds like something they should say, they say it. So that's one element because he is the quintessential con man. In addition to that, you also have the reality that some of this stuff is intentional. And when I say that, it could be the fact that his family has ties to the KKK. It could be that he himself took out a front page ad, a full page ad in New York to go against the

Central Park Five in a very racist fashion. Like this is who he is, right? There's no if, ands or buts about it. He is this person. There is a vicious, intentionally malicious element about what he's doing that we cannot sweep under the rug. But at the same time, there's also this element of grandpa, senile, crazy old, racist, whatever, that in the past, we used to give a pass that we can't allow to give a pass right now because it's having real world consequences. We have kids in Ohio who don't want to go to school because they're getting picked on. We have, and that's just the Haitian kids. Beyond the Haitian kids,

you have other kids in Ohio who can't go to school because there's been a shutdown, a lockdown or shutdown because of the bomb threats that this man is causing. So to have somebody as irresponsible as that and reckless and just incinerated that, what it does is it emboldens the worst of us. It emboldens the white nationalist terrorists to come out. It emboldens the people who will do the harm. It emboldens people who will march on the Capitol and say, we wanna hang Mike Pence,

because for them, it's not about Democrat or Republican. They just have this really nasty bent about them that comes out and is empowered and emboldened by people like the former president. So we need to entirely, I want this to be the hill that their political careers die on because this is the first time, maybe the second that they're getting some significant pushback on their anti-immigrant rhetoric and we need to keep the pressure up, but not just the pressure, but to motivate people to actually act. We don't have time for people to sit on the sidelines between project project 20 to 25 and agenda 47, which he is claiming as part of his look on his own website, look at what he's telling people to do, particularly for the South Florida community.

We do not have time to be caught up in other divisions right now because he's coming for all immigrants. He's coming for all black people. He's care. He's coming for anybody who actually cares about fighting for consumer rights. He's coming to make sure that you have to pay for your hurricane updates. I mean, like literally, he's coming for everybody except for the super rich who have money to buy and pay him off. Him and his sidekick, who's basically

representing private equity firms. Some private equities may not be that bad. But the ones that are supporting them are hardcore, not for the people period full stop. The moral of today's story is the moral of everyday story. that are supporting them are hardcore, not for the people. Period, full stop. The moral of today's story is the moral of every day's story. Vote, please vote like your life depends on it because it actually does.

Florida State Rep Dottie Joseph, find her on the app formerly known as Twitter, at Rep Dottie Joseph. Thanks so much for being here. Let's do this again. Thank you. Please don't find me on Twitter. I do not want to support anything associated with Elon Musk. Hit me up on Instagram, even though I got issues there too. Just dotty joseph. Thank you everybody. Are you not, you're not going to enter our contest to win a, a cyber truck or what? I'm good. What do they call them? They call them deplorians. Oh my god. Thank you. Hey y'all, it's Mike and as you know it is football season.

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be our commander in chief once again. Go vote! Don't get too excited, boy. There is always a Miami connection. Laura Loomer has been in the news a lot lately. We've talked about her on this show before when she was down here. Remember she was downtown confronting Ron DeSantis

and heckling him during the Republican primary. She went to Barry University. I don't know if you know this in Miami. She was kicked out of Barry University. Do you have any idea what it takes to get kicked out of Barry University? I mean, when you create a pro-ISIS club, I mean, usually that happens.

So this was like a Project Veritas stunt that she did. She wanted to start a pro-ISIS group. And the administration, so as to not alienate anyone, to try to be as inclusive as possible said you're welcome to start the group I mean if you'd like she broke Florida law allegedly in secretly recording them and releasing those recordings was eventually sued for it I believe by a professor by the way she starts the club nobody joined the club so she was why

would you want to be well what I'm saying though is that if she was trying to prove that like these universities are bastions for liberal indoctrination and, you know, leftists and pro-terrorist students and professors, she did a very good job proving the exact opposite. In the wise words of the Miami poet, DJ Khaled, you played yourself. And Laura Loomer has been the subject

of a lot of speculation and conversation, including in The Bullwork. I'm very excited to be joined by Sam Stein, the new managing editor of The Bullwork, one of the best political news sites on the internet. Most recently, their debate coverage has been absolutely sensational. Just the sourcing and the voices of the journalists

is just so, it's like, it's stressful, but also incredibly fun to read. The Caputo post-mortem on the debate, Trump blew it. Cat scratch fever on the debate stage. An absolutely amazing and sensational, Mark Caputo has always been one of the best sourced journalists in the Trump campaign, and that continues to be true. Oh my God, Tim Miller's Inside Trump's Spin Room from Hell is one of the funniest bits

of like first-person gonzo journalism taking you inside the belly of that beast. I mean, just absolutely outstanding work. Sam Stein, your article that we were referring to, Laura Loomer, is the symptom, not the disease, because this is a woman who has perpetuated Islamophobic, homophobic, racist conspiracy theories, and funny enough the Republicans are all up in arms. There's like this civil war that's been described erupting with Lindsey Graham and Marjorie Taylor Greene saying, this woman's even too extreme for us. And they're really concerned, Sam, that she is going to poison Trump's mind and bring him on the side of perpetuating conspiracy theories. Is this a problem?

Well, first of all, how much do I owe you for that intro? What was it like? $30, $40 for the very kind intro. You can Venmo me subject salad. Gracias, Matt Gaetz. That's inflation right there. Thanks, Joe Baden. Billy, thank you so much, man. Dude, yeah, this was bothering me when the entire conversation when

Laura Luma was seen on Trump's plane accompanying him to the debate. And then the next day too, the 9-11 memorial. The entire conversation was like, oh my God, like she's a loon, she's a conspiracist, like how could she get so close to Trump? This is problematic. And we're sitting in the newsroom,

we're like, wait a second, like what do they think is gonna happen to Trump? He is like the chief, like this man has invented conspiracies. Like, what do they think is going to happen to Trump? He is like the chief. This man has invented conspiracies. He's been doing conspiracies almost as long as she's been alive. She's only what? Like 31 years old.

And so, you know, it kind of seemed like the narrative was a little bit out of place here. And it felt like people need to be reminded that, and in fact, and this is almost like a serious point, almost, it is a serious point. She was groomed, her upbringing politically, her formative political years were during Trump, right? Like Trump started spreading, we calculated, Trump started the birther stuff when she was like 17 or 18.

So when she just was plugging into politics is when he was coming online politically. And I think that's the real story here is that people like Loomer have been bred in this. They realize that this is the pathway to success politically in the Republican Party. And of course, she's taken under Trump's wing because she's just echoed the style that he's perfected. Yeah. It's sort of the old snake swallowing the snake, swallowing the snake.

Right. You know, she, right. She is a product of him. It's not there. Shouldn't be concerned about her influence on him. It was the other way around. Yeah. And Lindsey Graham thought they'd be like, oh, no, no, no, she can't get too close. Like, this might poison his mind. It might damage, it's like, what are you talking about, man?

You know, there's like a litany of Trump wild conspiracy. Trump put Lindsey Graham's cell phone number, he broadcast it to the world. Like, does Lindsey think like Trump needs any like push to be more insane? Like, it didn't make sense to us. In the immortal words of Senator Lindsey Graham Trump is a fucking idiot

I do want to say there certainly was a level of insult to injury as you mentioned She was flying on Trump Force one to the 9-eleven memorial on the anniversary of 9-eleven This woman is a so-called 9-eleven truth or I use the term truth very loosely there But she has spread conspiracy theories about 9-11 being an inside job, and there she is alongside the former president of the United States on what is American holy ground. Yeah, and I thought this was kind of a...

This shows the degree to which minds can get warped, right? Like, because she made her name being an Islamophobe, right? She's been an outright, you know, vehement critic of Islam in a fairly sort of racist way too. And then at the same time, recently, she's kind of dabbled in this idea of 9-11 conspiracies, that it might've all been an inside job. And when your brain kind of just believes everything

you see on the internet, and you're willing to go down any rabbit hole, you can hold those two things and say, ah, they're consistent. But obviously and say, ah, they're consistent. But obviously for the outside world, and then for the outside world also, watching her be there with Trump at 9-11 at ground zero was just an affront, right?

Like this is for many, many people still, however many years later, it's incredibly a sore spot. And just being so callous to have her accompanying you is just a step too far. Sam, in your story in the bulwark, you list, I think, about almost two dozen examples of Trump perpetuating conspiracy theories long before, above and beyond,

this connection to Laura Loomer. My question is, can we do a top five of your top five of Donald Trump's best worst conspiracy theories? Oh, absolutely. It was difficult to choose five. Yeah. Let's give you the rules here, Sam. We start with number five. Okay. We count backwards. Oh, yeah. For those of us who are products of the Miami-Dade County Public School System, that's a little bit, it's hard those of us who those of us who are products of the Miami-Dade County Public School system, that's a little bit, it's hard enough to count up than it is to count down, but we have to just let everybody know it is a countdown to number one.

This is tricky, especially since there's a fire alarm going off distracting me. I might get this back. This is a multi-million dollar media company. I'll have you know, Sam. If I land this plane, I feel like I deserve some sort of... This is Draft Kings. This is Peacock. All right, we're not screwing around know, Sam. If I land this plane, I feel like I deserve some sort of- This is Draft Kings, this is Peacock. All right, we're not screwing around here, Sam. All right, number five. I chose him openly musing Weather Underground member Bill Ayers,

as you probably famously remember him in the 2008 campaign. He suggested that Bill Ayers actually wrote Barack Obama's memoir, as if Bill Ayers is just sitting there being like, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to write this guy who just graduated from Harvard law who like, who knows what he's going to be. I'm going to write that guy's memoir. I thought that was a, an interesting, an interesting conspiracy. Clearly Trump's got a, some, some weird ideas about how books are written.

Well, you have to know that Bill Ayers didn't write it because the book didn't bomb. Oh. Oh, oh. Oh, too soon? Too soon. Too soon? I thought the book was explosive. I don't know, so maybe he did write it.

I don't know. Oh. Two in a row. Oh, yeah, I got more Florida Dad jokes where that came from. All right. Well, let me get this out of the way now. All right, thank you. Three in a row. Three in a right. Well, let me get this out of the way now. All right.

Thank you. Three in a row. Three in a row. Sam, number four. All right. Number four, Trump said that fears about asbestos were actually a conspiracy designed to line the pockets of asbestos cleanup companies that were run by the mob. That one I liked because I just felt like it kind of got at how he thinks of things

like from a business perspective that it's like something he would have done right like and so he imparts it on someone else. I think it's funny that you think he thinks of things. He thinks of things in that way it's all transactional he probably has done that. Okay number three this is just a classic so you got to put in in three I had to get in. Okay, number three, this is just a classic. So you gotta put in three, I had to get in. He has raised the idea that Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz, Nikki Haley, Kamala Harris, and of course, Barack Obama, all have been ineligible to run for president

because of the places where their parents were born and the fact that maybe they were not US citizens at the time. So not just a birther conspiracy, singular, multiple birther conspiracy, singular, multiple birther conspiracy theories from Trump. Number two, this is a classic too, but this always cracks me up. He believes that noise from windmills cause cancer. Jesus. Science, you know, I guess science is not quite definitive on that one yet. And

then number one, this one really got to me because well, he questioned the authenticity of the Access Hollywood tape. The reason this one was was funny to me is because he had already apologized for it. It was like, then he's like, you know what? Maybe that wasn't me. And so that was my number one. It's exhausting, Sam. I'm sorry. I'm just like, I went from enthusiastic about this to just like, absolutely despondent. Yeah, to just huddled in the corner in the fetal position. Just like...

It's true. It's like very exhausting to keep track of this stuff. And then as soon as you try to track down the truth on one, another one pops up. Yeah, I mean, you didn't even do like, What was your favorite? global, like climate change as a Chinese hoax. Okay, you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna do my own top three. I'm gonna do my own top three and an OLI. All right, because you already did the births and birtherism, which I think is his one among his original sins, because that's, I mean, so toxic, you know,

trying to render a legitimate elected president of the United States illegitimate by spreading a toxic lie, but that is Donald Trump's brand. So here we go. Number three, so it's going to be a top three, is Ted Cruz's father might have had something to do with the assassination of John F. Kennedy. His father was with Lee Harvey Oswald prior to Oswald being shot.

I mean, the whole thing is ridiculous. What is this right prior to his being shot? And nobody even brings it up. I mean, they don't even talk about that. That was reported and nobody talks about it. But I think it's horrible. At the risk of sounding like Maury, the lie detector test shows that was a lie. That was a national inquirer story, by the way,

the publisher of which has testified multiple times to his involvement in the catch and kill of Stormy Daniels, sort of colluding with Donald Trump on these various stories to perpetuate some of this bullshit, but a total, total lie. Number two, another 9-11 lie. Jesus, really? I watched when the World Trade Center came tumbling down, and I watched in Jersey City,

New Jersey, where thousands and thousands of people were cheering as that building was coming down. Thousands of people were cheering. So something's going on. We got to find out what it is. Thousands of thousands of people in Jersey were so excited. They're coming all over the place. It's a lie. It didn't happen. He might have seen some images from the West Bank,

but not from the West Bank of the Hudson River. It simply didn't happen. And it helped feed Islamophobic conspiracy theories that led to a lot of hurt and pain and discrimination against muslims in the united states and all over the world and oh god number number number number one is donald trump perpetuating that a free and fair democratic election in this country was rigged. This is a fraud on the American public. This is an embarrassment to our country. We won Texas by 700,000 votes and they don't even include it in the tabulations. We did win this election. We did win this election. Ballots are indiscriminately pouring in from all over the country.

Tens of millions of ballots, where are they coming from? They're coming all over the place. We're illegal aliens and dead people are voting. We have a very sick and corrupt electoral process that must be fixed immediately. This election was rigged and the Supreme Court and other courts didn't want to do anything about it. I don't want to compare toxic shit but like when the former president when he was the current president is is targeting minority groups, which leads to hate, crimes, terrorism, that is horrific.

But when he attacks the entire system, and really is not just attempting to attack individuals or a minority group, but all of democracy by perpetuating this lie, Texas didn't count in the election. What the hell are we talking about here? What does that even mean? Can I just add to that? I chose my five to be tongue in cheek.

There's something there, like he claimed he was Michigan man of the year. No one has ever figured out what the hell he's talking about. But to your larger point, this is not a joking matter, obviously. And I'm reminded of it the last couple of weeks with this whole pet eating stuff in Springfield. Because in this case,

it's all for personal political gain in the short term, right? He wants to whip up fears about migrants who are here legally, but the people who suffer are the ones who are the most defenseless. They're the ones who are here and need the most help. They came from a horrific situation in Haiti. All they're looking to do is to contribute to a society,

make a life for themselves. And he spreads theories about them that are pernicious, that are grotesque, that are racist. And it's, you know, when he's done with it, he'll move on, but they won't. And that's the f***ed up part part of this is that these conspiracies have real War consequences, but he doesn't have to live in them and I want to remind everyone that the Washington Post fact-checkers documented over

30,573 false or misleading claims over the four years of the Donald Trump presidency Guy is the Pete Rose of liars. He's the Pete Rose of liars. Absolutely. And I don't understand, Sam, last bit, I'll give you the last word on this. You know, a lot of people call him a con man, but con is short for confidence. And that means he instills confidence and that people buy into his bullshit. I don't think that's true at all. He's much more akin to maybe a cult leader who's spreading deliberate bullshit and lies, but because more occasionally what he says

is unprovable, but much if not most of the time, it is demonstrably false. And yet people still continue to believe him and if not continue to follow him. What is the grip that he has on tens of millions of Americans when they know and we know he is making shit up as he goes along? Yeah it's that's like the sort of existential question is like what constitutes the appeal here? Like is it fear that he instills? Is it confidence that he instills? Is this sort of this patriarchal idea that he will solve their problems? I don't know the answer to that.

That's a really tricky question. I will say there's two interesting bits of data that kind of get at this. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but to the idea of cult. In 2016, I remember this vividly, there was a poll that had like, they looked at evangelical, white evangelical support for Trump. And they looked at the percentage before Revelations came out about the Stormy Daniels Affair. And they looked at support for after the Stormy Daniels Affair news broke. White evangelical support for Trump went up after the affair news broke.

I was just like, oh my God, like I maybe I misunderstood what the whole idea was behind this religion. But that means that you're willing to put aside, uh, your most intrinsically held moral values because you believe that this person who you love is being unfairly, uh, persecuted to worship at the altar of a false idol. Right. The other thing though, that gives me a little bit more hope, I suppose, is they have these scientific surveys and this predates Trump so maybe who knows how much hope

you should give it but they would bring in this group they bring in this group of people and they would ask them these questions that had like sort of demonstrably clear answers like you know did did the number of jobs go up under George W Bush what were the what was the death count in the Iraq war and they take in one group of people and they'd ask him this question and then they bring taken one group of people and they'd asked them this question. And then they bring in another group of people and they asked them the same exact question. But before they asked them those questions,

they said, if you get, whoever gets the most correct answers gets a $100 Amazon gift card. So they put a financial incentive to get the answers right. And what happened is more people answered correctly. The partisan biases dropped. And so people basically know sometimes that they're buying into the bullshit, right?

And they just do it anyway. But you can occasionally break through for, I don't know, not suggesting that Kamala Harris should be like handing out $100 Amazon gift cards to every voter. But like, maybe, you know, maybe. But there is a window there that you can get through to these people that they actually do know what reality is.

They just choose to live in a different unreality. So that's what I would do. Sam Stein, Managing Editor, TheBullwork.com. Let's do this again. Would love to. Thank you, man. Appreciate it. When you're hiring for your small business, you want to find quality professionals that

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