The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - #BecauseMiami: Welp...Earth is Screwed

Episode Date: July 25, 2025

An update on the cancellation of the upcoming election for the city of Miami. Apparently, cancelling an election without sending a referendum to the people for a vote is unconstitutional. Emilio Gonzalez, who is currently running for mayor of Miami, won his lawsuit against the city and will talk to Billy Corben about it. Plus, Michael Grunwald, author of "We Are Eating the Earth", tells us why we are destroying the planet with our stomachs. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Miami residents could be heading to the polls as planned this November. A judge now ruling it is unconstitutional to delay the vote without the people's approval. I'm happy that the court ruled the way they did and I appreciate the judges ruling. A win for Miami mayoral candidate Emilio Gonzalez. The idea that people can have an election yanked from them four months before they cast their ballot is something that I just wasn't willing to stomach and I had to do something. Miami commissioners voted three to two to pass the ordinance last month. Commissioner Damien Pardo, the item sponsor, said quote, we are confident in the strength of our case and remain

optimistic about the outcome on appeal. It makes them look ridiculous and unfortunately if that's the route they want to go, fine, we'll go there, but they'll lose again. Once again, the city of Miami getting international bad publicity for being a third world shit show. Not only did the commission, three to two, unilaterally vote to cancel or postpone an election for mayor and I believe two city commissioners, but they gifted themselves an extra year in office. So everybody who was elected to a four-year term got themselves another year,

a five-year term effectively, with all of the benefits that that bestows, both economic and certainly political. Emilio Gonzalez, who had already filed to run for mayor, was suddenly found himself disenfranchised, along with the rest of the voters in the city because there was no more election to run in in November of 2025. And he did what everybody in Miami has to do if you can afford to do it in order to get the city government to behave constitutionally, which is to sue them. And Emilio Gonzalez, the former city manager of the city of Miami now candidate for mayor is joining us.

Emilio, well first of all, congratulations on this. Really, incidentally, this was supposed to be a move to shift elections from odd year to even year in order to increase turnout. Fine. The argument wasn't really against the plan so much as it was the execution and the process, which was instead of taking it to a referendum of voters, the

commissioners just decided themselves, which I believe was unethical, for them to gift themselves that benefit. I don't know if that was the issue that, you know, that you guys had in your hearing, but beyond that you won. The city is now appealing, which I just think is a waste of time and a waste of money and resources and a further disenfranchisement of all of you candidates who are supposed to be running for office here. Like, what is going on?

What are the next steps here? And when is this gonna be, one way or another, when is this gonna be over? And when are we gonna know if we actually have an election or if they're gonna cancel it? Listen, Billy, thank you. We're gonna have an election.

And this is gonna be over very, very quickly. I was beside myself when I started hearing rumors that these folks wanted to cancel this election. And then it came out to be true. I know the charter, I read the charter. These people, they did something that was against the charter, it was illegal. In fact, the judge, rightfully so,

told them that what they were doing was a sleight of hand, I think was her term. Their defense was that, hey, it's really not a charter change, we just passed an ordinance, it's not a big deal. And to her credit, she said, yes, it is a big deal. You violated the city charter, you violated the county home rule charter,

you violated the state of Florida's constitution, and you violated numerous statutes within the state. Is that all? Is that all? Yes. And then on top of that, they really hang their argument because I had never been, I've never really been sued, so I was in this courtroom and it was a Zoom courtroom.

And then they based their argument on what happened in the city of North Miami. It was like, well, essentially, if they did it, we can do it. And my legal team was like, well, listen, just because they made a mistake doesn't mean we're making one. And as a matter of fact, my lawyer is a former Supreme Court justice. So, so what the case was laid out beautifully, and we thought this was going to be it, end of discussion, what do they do? A nanosecond after the judge rules against them, they file an appeal. The appeals court, to their credit, because it's an election issue, is going to hear this

case on Tuesday. So I will be there with my attorney on Tuesday, and once again, the city of Miami will look ridiculous. And the only option they have after that when they lose is to appeal to the Florida Supreme Court, if the Florida Supreme Court decides to hear it. But the reason I say this is ridiculous and ludicrous, Billy, is we're paying for this. I am paying for my city to defend itself from an accusation that they stole an election. I'm paying for them stealing an election. This is always the way. You pay for them to disenfranchise voters with the unconstitutional redistricting.

You pay for them to defend the corruption of Joe Corollo, who has lost time and again in his individual capacity. So you're paying for his personal attorney's fees for crying out loud. Well, I'll give you one better, you know, and this one is for another day, but you know, what I've filed, I filed as a resident, and thank God that I have the ability and the resources to do this and to have the right attorneys.

Billy, not one, not one fellow candidate checked in to say, we agree with you. I take that back. No, no, I made a mistake. Michael Hepburn. Oh, Michael Hepburn. Michael Hepburn reached out to me. Other than that, not one said, congratulations.

Can we help, attaboy, can we write a check for your illegal fees, not one. Except the day before the trial, 24 hours almost to the hour, Commissioner Carollo decides that he's going to file an amicus brief on my behalf. Commissioner Carollo is always on the right side of history. So, Emilio, this is a great segue because the proverb says that success has many parents and failure is an orphan. Since you won, first I'm going to put up this mailer or this email blast that Eileen Higgins the County Commissioner who's also I guess I hadn't noticed but is running for city mayor boom subject a victory for democracy

Eileen Higgins for mayor today's court decision declaring the bup bup bup bup not politicians I'm running for mayor to build I have to read this an affordable and prosperous future for all residents because Miami Deserves a government that works for you. I thought that nobody starts a sentence with because. Clearly that's a shout out to me. But here's my question. Where the hell has she been? I don't even think she gave a quote or a comment to the press about this. And on top of that, I think at the end of that mailer, because I got it too, I think, you know, push here for a $25 contribution or something. Yeah, she, fundraising on your court victory. They all are they all are Xavier Suarez was quoted as

saying when he announced that that he was part of my legal team or that he had provided. Hang on hang on I'm going to now I'm going to play a clip for his Xavier Suarez the former Miami mayor who was removed from office in 1998 for voter fraud. His son Francis Suarez the former Miami mayor who was removed from office in 1998 for voter fraud his son Francis Suarez he is the current mayor and now on the day that Emilio Gonzalez won his court victory Xavier Suarez files to run for mayor and he says this I didn't agree with it and I helped. I actually recommended the law firm that the litigation and in his press release that he put

out announcing his candidacy is filing for city mayor. He said it's very similar thing. Now, this is a lawsuit. Incidentally, you are suing in addition to the city, his son, Mayor Francis Suarez as well as the 3 commissioners that voted for this scheme. He was on your legal team. He was giving you legal advice to sue his son. What is he talking about. Yeah, listen, we we ended up having to remove all the individuals from the lawsuit because had we done

that then it would have been like 5 separate trials, you know if we're suing all of these people. But we just wanted to make sure we covered our bases legally. I'm telling you, I have a first rate legal team. They didn't miss a beat. They did what they were supposed to do. They argued the law and they argued the law, I'm telling you, brilliantly.

Miami's city attorney's office, they argued, well, you know, North Miami, in fact, their attorney, if I remember, he even said, you know, on the surface, it might appear that there's a conflict between what we did and the city charter. Of course, there was a conflict. Everybody could see the conflict and I'm still paying for you to see that conflict and still lose. So immediately, as you said, you win.

I, amongst other local journalists and reporters reported about your victory. And within, I mean, not hours, I get an email from Kenya Fallot, the spokesperson now for the city of Miami, working for the city manager. Its subject is statement from the legal department. Good afternoon, Billy. Please see below statement from the office

of the city attorney and attached notice of appeal. The quote is from the city attorney, "'While we respectfully disagree with the trial court's decision, we are confident in the strength of our case and remain optimistic about the outcome on appeal.'" To which I reply, about less than 20 minutes later, thanks Kenya. Quick question, is the office of the city attorney more or less confident than they

were about the strength of Joe Corroyo's success on appeal? And I say that because speaking of your tax dollars are paying for, this has been the line from Joe, since he lost that $63.5 million corruption judgment in his individual capacity and the city taxpayers have been paying his personal attorney's fees for as much as $15 to $20 million. This is what Joe Corollo and the city attorney have been telling us for two years. Joe Corollo was ordered to pay more than $63 million for abusing his power at City Hall. two ways. Either they throw the whole case out or they say that there's going to be a retrial. The case against me is going to be thrown out against everybody in the city that they've sued. Will be thrown out later this

year in appeal. We're working to get some reaction from Miami Commissioner Joe Carollo. A federal court denied his appeal to overturn a $63.5 million verdict against him. What do you think, Emilio? Is there going to be a successful appeal against you? I was interviewed outside my home and I told these, listen, this is ridiculous. You know, it really, and what's going to happen is, is we're going to win. It's going to be ugly.

And the city is then going to sit back and's going to be ugly, and the city is then going to sit back and say, well, if you notice the comment you got from the city, it wasn't exactly like overwhelmingly confident. No, we are optimistic that we might. No, guys, the only way you're going to overturn the court is if you find out that this lady, you know, did something illegal or improper. It's ironclad. You violated the city charter. You violated the county charter. By the way, I forgot to tell you, during the trial,

there was actually a county attorney on. And a county attorney submitted a brief saying, hey, we want you to interpret the county charter the same way the plaintiff is interpreting the county charter. Yes, the city violated the county charter the same way the plaintiff is interpreting the county charter. Yes, the city violated the county charter and the Florida Constitution. I mean, what else do you need to just stop and give the voters back an election on November the 4th?

They are trying so hard for people not to vote. And then, and then Billy, then they sit there and tell you, well, we are gonna have an election, but you know what? You're not allowed to vote for anybody. You have to vote on these two referenda items, one of which has to do with term limits, which really aren't term limits because we had a carve out for a couple of,

I mean, come on. Listen, this is not rocket science. And I will tell you, Billy, I will tell you, you know, we in Miami are used to a lot. You know, we put up with a lot. One of the things that I found, and I find that a very humbling experience, I've never run for anything, okay?

I go to Publix, I go pump gas. Perfect strangers knock on my door, stop me when I walk my bulldog. Thank you, thank you. Finally, somebody is doing what needs to be done. I mean, listen, this is tame compared to the stuff. They kick them all out, put them in jail, on and on. I mean, it really is a humbling experience.

But what I think what we're witnessing is an upcoming tidal wave of discontent. People are pissed. They are pissed. And in this community, people tolerate a lot, but don't tolerate taking my right to vote away. But also every day that this goes on, the uncertainty of it, the appeal

is disenfranchisement. It's disenfranchisement of the candidates, it's disenfranchisement of the voters, it's tougher to campaign, it's tougher to fundraise. I mean, to be fair, you know, candidates couldn't even file to run because there was no, for a while, there was no election to run it. Think of how ecumenical this has become, that a group called Veterans for America First and the NAACP have both chimed in to support my lawsuit. Okay? This is beyond-

It's a big tent. It's a big tent on this one. This is a circus tent, you know. No, come, send it there. Well, in Miami it certainly is. But you know, no common sense. In Miami, it certainly is. But you know, this is no longer about Republican or Democrat, about left or right. This is about wrong or right.

And people understand that. You don't yank an election. If you were seriously thinking about doing this, what happened last November when we actually went to the ballot, to the vote? Why wasn't it a good idea then? Why is it a good idea now? And why does it have to be now?

You know, when we do the census every 10 years, you take the census and then prospectively you will inform states you've gained three congressional seats prospectively so that the next election they plan for three additional congressional seats here. They want to go backwards Listen, if you want to have elections on even years fine, let the voters decide if they if they decide Let's do it prospectively, you know effective pick a date 2032 everybody stands for election period end of discussion And they would have a great deal of people supporting me. And what would happen, of course, is that you'd have voters going into the polling place

with the knowledge that you're voting for somebody for a five-year term, for example, as opposed to now, the people who got elected for four-year terms suddenly gave themselves five-year terms. There was disenfranchisement on top of disenfranchisement in this game. I publicly have said, look, if you guys want to do this, when I win in November, I'll serve a three-year term. No buy-in. Mute, mute. Crickets, nothing. I'll do a three-year term. But there's

another issue that people forget and we need to think about, And that is, if you have elections in even number years, you will eventually have an election in a presidential campaign. So the day that Emilio Gonzalez, average citizen, decides he wants to run for city commission, I will be on the same ballot as a president, a governor, a senator, a congressman, a mayor. Bottom line, by the time my name appears on a ballot,

it'll be on page 14. Secondly, when I go fundraise, everybody's gonna laugh at you. Hey, look, I already gave to the presidential candidate, a governor. So what you end up doing is you may, and I even wanna see the numbers, you may increase turnout,

but you're gonna decrease the number of candidates You may, and I wanna see the numbers, you may increase turnout, but you're gonna decrease the number of candidates because at that point, the only people that can afford to run are these legacy guys that have existing packs and they're bored because their wife has got too many things for them to do. So they're gonna run for office again

and they got $200,000 left over. So when they did it in even number of years, the logic back then was if you do it in the off years, then people can concentrate on municipal issues and not get lost on all these figure. And listen, we've had this debate on the show before whether or not the even year election increases franchisement or not,

whether a higher voter turnout of lower information voters is actually beneficial for democracy. Whether candidates can compete because of the, like we don't have a deep bench in terms of campaign talent in this town. So there's gonna be greater competition against congressional races and presidential campaigns to hire people.

Advertising and printing and mailers are gonna be more expensive and more plentiful in mailboxes. You will not be able to penetrate. So this whole idea that Commissioner Pardo presented that this is going to somehow improve the kind of quality of the candidates and the competitiveness of outsiders or is to me total bullshit because the only people who can compete are the political dynastic crime families that have been holding us hostage for generations. You know, an interesting anecdote during the trial.

It was a Zoom trial, but a lot of people were able to watch, and there was a lady who kept raising her hand. Can't do that during a trial. Well, the judge, the judge, you know, madam, what can I do for you? I'd like to speak. Oh, so check this out. What happened?

The lady spoke. The lady was a resident of North Miami and she spoke to say that this business about voter turn is BS, that the people in North Miami are incredibly pissed at the fact that they had to extend their their office holders. And she said, again, this is anecdotal, that in this election, whenever that local people appeared, they just skipped them. So they the voters voted for other people, and they left that blank because they were not going to legitimize people that were imposed upon them against their wishes.

Or they had no idea who the hell they were. I mean, listen, and to my point earlier, yeah, okay. Let's say you can improve turnout. Right now, turnout is miserable, okay? But you know what? Show me the stats. I mean, there's gotta be some empirical data other than the city of North Miami.

But bottom, listen, bottom line, we should be able to have this conversation and debate when we go to a referendum to vote on whether or not to change the elections to even year, which did not have like, that's why I said there's disenfranchisement on top of disenfranchisement here. To your point, though, you know, they always talk about the low turnout in Miami, and we have an abysmally low turnout. Why is that? It isn't because people don't care. It's that we have a really poor, candid class of people.

If I have to choose between bad and worse, I'm staying home. I'm not interested in giving anybody my vote. And historically, that's what we've had. And unfortunately, our political classes, by the way, I've changed it. We've gone from politicians to political class. Now we have a political cast, right? Our political cast, they like that. They like to keep turnout low.

They want to be able to manipulate the absentee ballots and people voting at the senior centers and all that good stuff and they're counting on being able to win an election where their turnout is maybe 12%. We just had an election in District 4 where something like 11% of the people showed up to vote. Okay, 2,800 people now allow Ralph Rosato to vote on the future of our city. The best commissioner money could buy, Emilio. I've never had you on the show before. So while I had the opportunity, I have to ask this, because we now are in a place where Miguel Gabela,

the commissioner Gabela, who's been on this show before, is the only elected official in City Hall who has not been adjudicated to have violated the Constitution, either the US or state. or state constitution, everybody else from the mayor and all of the other commissioners, the three commissioners who voted for this scheme. Joe Corroyo to his credit did vote against it, however he's been adjudicated to have violated the First Amendment rights of course of the property owners in Little Havana, a case in which you testified in. Away from the

commissioner entering court to face the first witness for 11 a.m. that's Miami's former city manager. The jury learned about his military and national security past trusted county and then city administrator who as boss of Miami's operations and staff got along well with Commissioner Joe Corollo until the ball and chain controversy. the signs that the commissioner was targeting, his words, that and its owners' other business properties along Calle Ocho, a midnight tour of grievances,

requests for code and police inspections. City staffers, Gonzalez told the jury, were afraid not to comply with a powerful commissioner. It's my understanding that this is the reason you, Staffers, Gonzalez told the jury, were afraid not to comply with a powerful commissioner. It's my understanding that this is the reason you, this issue was the reason you resigned as the city manager at the city ultimately and may very well play into the reason why you're running now for mayor. I'll give you the last word.

Listen, I resigned more than anything else because my wife had gotten sick and I have priorities and my priorities were not going to a circus every other week at the city of Miami. It isn't what I said at a trial, it's what everybody else said, okay? When my police chief and my deputy city managers and my department heads all come to the same conclusion that a lawful business is being targeted, it's wrong.

It's wrong. And we should not allow ourselves to play's wrong. It's wrong. And we should not allow ourselves to play that game. It is wrong. The trial took us to where it did. It was a jury trial. It was appealed. The man had his day in court. And that should be the end of this. But the moral of the story is, citizens can fight back. Okay? Citizens don't have to sit back and take it. Citizens don't have to have their elections stolen from them. Citizens have a say. And my expectation is is that this November the 4th, we will have an election and we will have, I'm convinced a tidal wave of people coming out to start all over again.

Emilio Gonzalez, EmilioForMiami.com. Thanks for being here. I hope you'll be back before the election that you insist is going to happen. You're promising us an election now. It will happen. It will happen. Much against the wishes of the power brokers at City Hall, we will have an election this November.

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And like, well, what do I read? Like, what kind of helps me prepare for Miami to understand Miami a little bit better? It's the history and what I'm about to get myself into. My first advice is don't, don't move here. But if you have to move here, one of the books always on my forever Miami must read list is The Swamp by Michael Grunwald.

It's one of the best books about politics and the environment and Florida and things that really matter, but also in the most funny, compelling, readable way. Because like a lot of the issues that Michael Grunwald covers, it's pretty heavy shit. And you're gonna be like, I don't wanna read about that. It sounds like homework, it sounds stressful,

but you start reading it and you're like, why is this funny? Why is this so much fun? He's great to read and he's great to talk to and he's joining us now on Because Miami. Michael's new book, this is why he's here, I should mention, we are eating the earth, the race to fix our food system and save our climate. See, existential shit.

We're literally looking, for those of you listening and not watching, we're literally looking at the cover of the book, which is orange with what is basically a plate with the earth painted onto it that is cracked in like half a dozen pieces. So as I was saying, it's really not an episode of Because Miami unless we get into an existential conversation. Because Miami is forever an existential kind of a place

because we're one of the youngest cities, but we're also gonna be the first to go, aren't we Michael? I appreciate your kind words and your optimistic take. We're one of the youngest cities, but we're also going to be the first to go. Aren't we Michael? I Appreciate your kind words and your and your optimistic take It's great Philly. I'm definitely trying to make the unpleasant and existential and boring more palatable right since You know 20 years of this now. It sounds like like a 50s or 60s like Roger Corman horror movie. We are eating the Earth. There should be like a theremin on the soundtrack.

Soylent green is people. Woo-hoo! Yeah, so here's the problem with us humans. We got to fill our pie holes with something, right, in order to survive. And in order to do that, we got to make food, right, which I guess means we got to grow food, which means we need Earth to do that.

And what you're saying is that we are somehow, by just virtue of needing to stay alive, we are destroying our soul vessel here for humanity? Yeah, that's basically right, right? This is like a pretty nice planet, right? It's got pizza, it's got reliable Wi-Fi, breathable air. All right. Speak for yourself, I live in Miami. It's got pizza, it's got reliable Wi-Fi, breathable air. Right? Speak for yourself.

I live in Miami. We have popsicle sticks and Elmer's glue is this infrastructure. Well, you know, it used to be a natural planet. It used to have trees and grasslands and wetlands. Overrated. You know, stuff like the Everglades, as you mentioned. And it has become an agricultural planet. Two of every five acres of land on this earth are now farms or pastures and you know by contrast

right we talk about you know oh the sprawl is out of control well one of every hundred acres of the earth are cities and suburbs so really mean, we are losing a soccer field worth of tropical forest every six seconds, and we're losing it to agriculture. So, you know, I'd written about the sugar industry a little bit in the swamp, but I really didn't know squat about farms. And it is not only a third of our climate problem, but it is, you know, uses 70% of our fresh water. It's the main cause of water pollution. It is the main cause of biodiversity loss.

If you care about the environment, you should probably care about agriculture, but nobody really does. Well, let's talk about that because we hear a lot about greenhouse gas emissions. We hear a lot about sea level rise. There's a lot of things that we hear about with respect to climate change and the environment. But we rarely hear about this. Like I'm embarrassed to admit it, but this is kind of the first time that I'm aware that the idea of our growing food is somehow a bad thing for the planet.

Like, are we misguided? Are our priorities out of whack with respect to this conversation? Well, look, I mean, I can't get too preachy about it because, you know, six years ago when I started working on this, I knew nothing about it. You know, and I wrote a fair amount about energy, you know, energy and climate. I just didn't know about a third of the problem. And, you know, I think part of it, you know, energy and climate. I just didn't know about a third of the problem. And, uh, you know, I think part of it, you know, I like to say that this kind of carbohydrate problem is more interesting than the hydrocarbon problem, because at

least with energy, we kind of know what to do, right? You want to like electrify the global economy and run it on clean electricity. And we're even sort of starting to do it despite what the yahoos in Washington are doing right now. But food, like, we didn't even know what we need to know. And the problem is getting worse in a hurry. So it did seem like, you know, a kind of interesting thing to dig into.

And what you really, you know, what you find is that this is the problem that we're not addressing. I write about a lot of solutions, but so far none of them have much traction. This is the problem that we're not addressing. I write about a lot of solutions, but so far none of them have much traction. Well, you said like what 40% of the earth is dedicated to this, and that's the thing too, is there's more of us. We need more fuel for us.

There's a stat that I heard you say the other day that we're gonna have to make more food. You know the one I'm talking about? Yeah, what yeah, this is like a shocking fact. Yeah We're gonna have to manufacture more food in the next 30 years than we've made in the last 12,000 since since the invention of agriculture and right now we are on track to deforest another dozen California's worth of land by 2050. And that's like really bad. I mean, not only for the, not for the, just for the bugs and bunnies and other critters that live in the forest, but, but remember like forests store a ton of carbon and they

also absorb the carbon that we pump into the atmosphere with our fossil fuels. So I like to say that, you know, like trying to decarbonize the planet while continuing to vaporize all these trees. It's like trying to clean your house while smashing your vacuum cleaner to bits in the living room. You make a huge mess, but you're also crippling your ability to clean up the mess. And that's essentially what the book is about. We're, we're eating the earth and we got to start eating less of it. And you're, you're kind of one of these people who starts to learn, as you said, in research and understand.

And then you start to change your behavior as a result of what you're like, oh, shit, maybe I need to be doing something a little bit different here. And you have like a new diet, right, like as a result of this book. Well, look, if I was going to be, you know, look, I feel like diets, sort of like religion, right?

You just find the level of hypocrisy that you're comfortable with. And if I was going to be the really good food and climate writer, I would go vegan, because that is the best diet for the climate. But it turns out, like, I really love meat. And our ancestors started eating it 2 million years ago. And we actually evolved to, you know,

we're sort of hardwired to enjoy it. So what I did was I cut out beef and lamb because it turns out that cutting out beef and lamb is about as good as going vegetarian because vegetarians tend to eat more dairy and really cattle are the problem. They are like beef is 10 times worse than for the planet dairy and really cattle are the problem. They are like beef is 10 times worse than for the planet and for the climate than chicken or pork.

And it's partly because of the burps and farts that everybody talks about. And those are a problem. There's a lot of methane that, you know, from flatulent cows, but the real problem is- A lot of methane in the studio too. Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure. I've been around you, Billy.

But I think that the real problem is that cattle just use an extraordinary amount of land. They're really inefficient converters of their food into our food. And so while dairy is really bad, it's probably worse than chicken and pork, but at least because it's cattle, but they do make milk a few times a day

But they only make beef once in their lifetime So so beef just turns out to be you know beef is the baddie and I know it's like I I miss steak I miss burgers, but I just figured if I'm gonna be this guy writing this this book You know it would I better do something. So what do you see you eat? Fish? I eat everything else. Okay, chicken. I eat everything else.

Alright, pork? I always say like people ask me like what are the things you should do if you want to reduce the impact of your diet on the planet? And like I could give you a list of 50 things that would help, but beef is so much worse than all the other things. I just say eat less beef. Number two is waste less food, because we waste about a quarter of our food,

and that means we waste a quarter of the farmland and the fertilizer and the water that goes to grow that food. We literally use a landmass the size of China every year to grow garbage. So that's dumb. But then it's like, if I had to do number three, it would be eat even less beef, every year to grow garbage. So that's dumb. But then it's like, if I had to do number three, it would be even less beef.

Because that's just that much, it's an outsized part of the problem. Well, there's always a Florida connection. And the Florida of today is the America of tomorrow. We are the laboratory for democracy, the beta testing grounds of sort of every bad idea that every lobbyist ever had. Tip of the spear.

And then we export that Florida fuckery to the rest of the poor country. And last year, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis signed a bill that banned the manufacture, sale or distribution of cultivated, also known as lab-grown or cell-based meat in Florida. It went, law went into effect last summer. DeSantis stated that the ban aims to protect

Florida's agricultural industry and address what he termed the quote global elites plan, end quote. So what happened there and does that help us eat the earth less? I mean it's so absurd. I mean, you know, first of all, right? Like it's the free state of Florida and they're telling us what meat we can eat, right? I mean, you know, this is just an obviously, you know, this is partly because, right, he calls it lab grown meat. It's actually, I mean, the industry calls it cultivated meat,

which makes sense because it's gonna be grown in breweries, not labs. And I've tried it and it tastes like meat because it is meat. It's grown from animal cells. I've had, you know, cultivated sushi. I've had cultivated burgers. I've had cultivated chicken. It's not available for sale yet because they haven't gotten it cheap enough and they haven't

got, you know, some of the places they're just starting to get their FDA approval but it can reduce you know aside from you know saving billions of animals you know it can reduce land use by 90 percent reduce emissions by 90 percent you know you know it doesn't require antibiotics doesn't require hormones it's a really you know it's exciting technology but because because, you know, just like electric vehicles were seen as sort of Obama mobiles, now these kind of like fake meat is seen as Biden burgers. And it's just like trying to start a culture war. And you got to, you know, like you say, Florida, Florida comes first, but now six other red states have have banned cultivated meat. This is a very legitimate sort of potential solution

to what it is that you write about, which is of course saving our one and only planet here. And we have banned it and so have six other states. It really is. I mean, the earth is becoming an animal farm, right? I mean, I talked about how two of every five acres of the planet are now agricultural. Well, two of every three acres of agricultural land are pasture.

And if you include all the crops that we feed to animals, really, like three quarters of our agricultural land are basically to provide stuff for animals to eat before we eat them. So again, we're eating 350 million tons of meat every year, and it would be really exciting to have to be able to keep doing that without having such a dramatic impact on the planet. But, you know, that's woke. That's, you know, and of course, there are some cattlemen who showed up to, you know, Florida hearings wearing their cowboy hats. And, you know, that's Ron DeSantis. He listens to the growers. He doesn't really listen to the eaters. Yeah, but nobody's going to stop them from doing what they're doing. This is to compensate

for, like you said, that many more mouths that we have to feed and that much more. They can never produce enough cattle at the rate at which you're talking about that we're going to need right now It really it's it's really true. You'd need you really would need a planet B, right? And you know, and if and you know, we saw the Martians and bright like that place I know that there is like, you know certain people who would like us to start a new civilization up there But I saw Matt Damon trying to grow potatoes on that land and it didn't, you know, it seemed pretty hard. We have a much better place to grow food. We're just making a hash of it.

So before we go, I have to ask you because there are stories that I see that make me think of you. There's a story about Cape Coral, because you've done a lot of writing about Cape Coral, which has been in the news in the past month. Oh yeah, it was really fun when I went there for my daughter's soccer tournament. I was like, you know, they didn't really hold like a parade to welcome me. So the headline,

Cape Coral has the worst housing market in America. You can set your watch to this headline, right? Like this is a headline, and it's a canary in the coal mine for me for a recession because, or a housing bust cycle, because you see Cape Coral and you're like, oh shit, that's where it happens first. Is that what we're looking at here?

Is it the red flag? Well, you know, I mean, as you know, I did write a story about Cape Coral called the boom town that shouldn't exist. Well, you know, I mean, as you know, I did write a story about Cape Coral called The Boomtown That Shouldn't Exist. And it is like, it's kind of, it's Florida's Florida, is what I like to call it. I mean, you know, the insanity of that place, the way they, you know, it's the most, it's a peninsula popping off the peninsula. It's the most unnatural corner of an

the unnatural part of the United States. Um, and uh, there are all sorts of reasons to believe that that place is just like cruising for a bruising. Um, but that said, you know, like in the past, like this is probably a buy signal, right? Like people probably shouldn't be living there. You know, they're right in harm's way. It's like, you know, it's our, it's our best hurricane alley. Um, it's you know, it's a, they are living in the swamp. Um, but uh, you know, the, the,

the moral of Cape Coral is that it's about lies that came true, right? It was swamp land that everybody, you know, that people passed off as like buildable land when it really wasn't, but ultimately it was. And I wouldn't buy a place in Cape Coral, but probably it'll be worth twice as much in a few years. The only guy in Miami who's not a realtor, Michael Grunwell. Before we go, last question, speaking of the swamp, the Everglades, in your book, it really is sort of like the bipartisan island

where people could kind of come together and no matter how divided and how much partisanship there was, we could come together about protecting, if not saving, the Everglades. And now, the Gator Gulag, you've got alligator Alcatraz contributing concrete and light pollution and sound pollution, not to mention the human rights violations and all the human beings that are becoming skeeter food out there. You've got the Miami-Dade County Commission proposing to move the

incinerator that burned down in Doral next to the... That'll show them. Listen, what could possibly go wrong building an inc Doral next to the- That'll show them. Well, Leigh, listen, what could possibly go wrong building an incinerator next to a concentration camp in the Everglades? But incidentally, the Democrats don't seem to be doing shit. We have a Democratic mayor of the county. She's just absolutely a spineless quizling. Her silence is pure complicity in this.

I guess what I'm saying is now we're all just kumbaya on shitting all over the Everglades. Is that what's happened the last 20, like quarter of a century? You know, it's funny, you know, I end my new book, you know, I end, We Are Eating the Earth in the Everglades, you know, and because in a way the idea of, you know, that the idea of this is like just as agriculture is intruded into the Everglades,

but also some of the projects that are actually trying to restore the Everglades, they're restoring peatlands. And in a way that's like the best climate project you could have, right? That's like the best bang for your climate buck. But no, I mean, as you know, the beginning of the swamp, I started it like during the Supreme Court case, Bush v. Gore. While that was being argued at the Supreme Court, you know, Jeb Bush and Bill Clinton were celebrating the Everglades at the White House and they were celebrating Everglades restoration because it's not like every politician really cared about the Everglades, but you at least had to pretend to care.

And that ship seems to have sailed, right? I remember Mayor Daniella, when the swamp came out, she was kind of this, I think she was like a volunteer for the Audubon Society and she used to come to my book talks and then she would just come, I remember talking to her a little bit. The Everglades used to be this real unifying, inspiring thing that we all had in common

and that really did seem to cross the political divide but I think today nothing crosses the political divide. And the swamp is just, it's not worth, some people are using it like, hey, because we don't like the people who are using the Everglades as a concentration camp, so we're gonna, so that's a talking point. But you don't see anybody who really cares

about the Everglades in public life right now. Yeah, not even seems the people who used to care about the Everglades either the organization, some of the organizations used to kind of rely on being the watchdogs for it and saying like the rest of us can can go about our business because it's in good hands. There's good stewards sort of working and that doesn't even seem to be the case anymore. Well, I mean, you know, we're 25 years into Everglades restoration, and you know, I wrote a book about it, so it's a little more complicated than this. But it's basically a water storage project, right? It's supposed to store more water in these reservoirs so that we don't

have to dump it into the estuaries or dump it into the Everglades, and so that we still have some in the dry season and for the Everglades and so that we still have some in the dry season and you know for the Everglades. Water's overrated. And honestly we just finished the first water storage reservoir 25 years later. I mean it's just it's incredible. This was supposed to be a 30-year plan. I mean I think we're currently on track for 100 years. And it's just, you know, it's very depressing because it used to be at least there was this idea that, you

know, we love the Gators, we love the Panthers, you know, we love the idea that there are no other Everglades in the world, like Marjorie Stoneman Douglas said. We love the idea that the Everglades is a test. If we pass, we get to keep the planet. Now it's like, we're failing, who cares? I'm more interested in a tequila storage project. Can we work on that? I'd like to work on that. Michael Grunwald, author of We Are Eating the Earth, I know what it sounds like,

but it's actually really, if I can say it, fun to read and enlightening. And I'm not suggesting that you're going to quit red meat like poor Michael did, but maybe you'll eat a little bit more chicken. It's like a Chick-fil-A. Exactly. I'm like the Chick-fil-A cow. Exactly.

Eat more chicken. Eat more chicken. That's right. Thanks, Michael. Thanks for having me, Billy. Cocaine's.