The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - Do Sports Fans Want To Do Homework? | Hour 2

Episode Date: October 8, 2026

"Who said that?" Moises Alou was wrong about how he handled that whole Steve Bartman thing, right? We have a big controversy with the Bucket thanks to Amin, and Zaslow has called Jeremy a "tepid commissioner." Plus, tax aprons, being a smarter fan, and a future Nick Saban documentary. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

There is nothing casual about football season. You can tell yourself, you're just going to watch one game, and six hours later, you're emotionally invested in a fourth quarter between two teams you don't even care about. That's what I love about this time of year. The entire weekend becomes football. Your texting friends, tracking games, second-guess and coaches, convincing yourself you saw something before everybody else did. And then Monday comes around and you get to do the whole thing again.

Those are the weekends you remember. And for me, some of the best ones have usually involved some good people, a great game, and a cold Miller Light. No matter what triumphs are in store this season, legendary game days start with Miller Light. Cold, crisp, refreshing, that clean finish. And it's part of plenty of memorable football weekends. Make Game Day legendary. Go to Miller Lite.com slash Dan to find delivery options near you, or you can pick up some Miller like pretty much anywhere they sell beer.

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That's why Intact Insurance answers 2 million claim calls per year within 20 seconds. So instead of hearing this lovely track, you'll hear this in seconds. Hello, Intact Insurance. You're listening to the Dan Levatar show, in partnership with the Drafkin Sports app. Now live in all 50 states. Big gamer, not a big game, is presented by the on new lawnmower go from Manscaped. You know about that lawnmower go, Dan? That's right.

It's for the groin and body hair. You know why? You know why you need that? You know what? It's called the lawnmower. Why do you ask me four questions without letting me answer any of them? That's right. Manscaped.

Roy, hit it. Howdy, folks. Welcome to Big Game or not a big game with Jonathan Zaslow. That's right. Big game and not a big game. Let's get things started here. Dan, I'll come back to you. Roy, what do you got?

We got number 10 LSU going into. to a 4-1 Kentucky team. Kentucky, a bit surprising here early in the season. Big game and not big game. Kentucky has some good wins this year. They won on the road, Texas A&M. They had last second victory last week against South Carolina. Shane Beamer.

Oh my God, your days are numbered. But come on, what are we talking about here? LSU. Woo! LSU, Kentucky? Not a big game. LSU's going to crush him. Not a big game.

Mike, what do you got for me? Oregon looks to a very, stem the tide. They are starting a backup quarterback against a UCLA team that Oregon head football coach Dan Lannning says reminds him a lot of Indiana. UCLA, Oregon, big gamer, not a big game. Mike, you know about that Mario Cristobal merchant over there in Oregon? The merchant? Dan Lannick, that's a Mario Cristobal. Merchant.

Merchant. That's a Mario Cristobar. Cristobar merchant. Merchant. That's right. number 13 Oregon, number 21 UCLA. I've heard those comparisons at UCA in Indiana. This is not the first time that I've heard that before.

Don't forget the L. I'm very interested in seeing what UCLA has made of them this week. In Eugene, 21 UCLA, 13 Oregon. That's a big game. Now, did you make a prediction there by making them UCA saying they're not going to take the L? I don't know what you're talking about, Dan. Chris, big game and not a big game.

Saturday. 3.30. Infocision Stadium. 75 degrees. There was a bit of a lisp in that word. Eastern Michigan at Akron. Wait a minute. Why you make a mockery? The zips.

Why are you doing that? Why are you making a mockery? I'm genuinely curious. Zip to your mouth. Where is that stadium? Infocision stadium. I know. But who's the home team?

Akron. It's not a big game. You're making a mockery. It. You're not respecting the game. Don't make a mockery. Zips. I mean, big game, not big game. I got one.

That's not on Saturday. It's tonight. And it's not in InfoScian Stadium or wherever that is. It's right across the street. Guys, I'm going to the Miami Heat preseason home opener. I am going to go witness the Gospel of Janus up close and personal. And I will have a report tomorrow. I'll give you guys all their mirrors.

So what are you asking me? Heat versus Pelicans, preseason. Heat home opener. Heat fan gets to see Janus for the first time, even though it's preseason. You know about that Gail Nelson? New PA announcer? Wow, I'm excited for that.

That's tonight as well. You know about that Zion? You don't have to. We never plays. Pelicans, Heat. Preseason? It's not. again.

What? That's preseason. It's not a big game. It's not big in. Dan, one of my great regrets in life is Gail Nelson was a guest on Friday show. I grilled him. I wasn't here for it. Guys, I have the greatest thing.

I've held on to this for literally about 15 years. When I was scouting, I was on the road, I'm going to all these games all over. I went to an Oakland University game. Do you guys know what Oakland University is? That's right. It's in Michigan. It's in Michigan. Detroit, no?

It's outside of Detroit. out in the... Oakland County. Kentrick Nguyen. So, yeah, that's where Kendrick Nguyen went. So I went to go see, I think North Dakota State versus Oakland. And at Oakland University, 15 years ago, folks, when a guy would make a shot of an assist, right? Let's say, oh, three-point field goal, Jonathan Zaslow.

Everyone would cheer, and then the PA guy would say, thank you, Dan Lebitard. To the guy who made the assist. 15 years, I've held on to that as like, we should do that here in the NBA. Someone needs to do it. But all these guys, they're already established like, hey, you get to. talk to me. I've already had this thing been doing it this way. I'm not going to change all of a sudden. But now, for the

first time, I have the opportunity to give something to a PA guy who's starting his first day on the job. Tonight, I will go to Gil Nelson. I will shake his hand and I'll say, you have to do this. Because why wouldn't we want to celebrate

assist? Helping. Helping. The idea of saying, like, imagine, you're on the sun to the Gumpo! And then everyone cheers and say, Thank you. I'm at a bio. It's 10.30. We haven't talked Stephen A. Lane Johnson yet.

What's going on with you? Are you all right? Can we relive when Gail Nelson was in with us when he introduced Zaz like he would if he was a starter for the heat? At 5.7 and 3 quarters at Guard from Santa Fe Community College, Jonathan Zaslo. Yeah. I like it, too. I like it. Goosebump.

Come on, brother. I like it. I saw you had a facial expression. You had a reaction to that. Well, because I didn't, that's not the squad. Mental illness, sports media, Stephen A double down. I mean, it's perfect for us.

I mean, you were saying during the break that David Samson had reached out to you with some sort of Bartman update? He sure did, Dan. while arguing with me about Carl Anthony Towns, he provided this update about Bartman saying, quote, Bartman was in foul territory while the guy last night was in fair territory. I said, yeah, but he interviewed it would have been the last out.

He said, Moises Alu told me he would not have caught that ball. I have maintained forever. Moises Alu should feel deep shame for what happened to Steve Bartman. Deep shame. Bartman doesn't get that reaction. None of that happens if not Moises Alu throwing a tantrum like a child over a ball that he was not going to catch. I am today years old learning that he could not have caught it. No, he could not have caught it.

He just said he couldn't have caught it. He could have caught it. The ball was clearly in foul territory though. The fan has the right to the ball and Moise's Alu like a child. I'm going to rewatch it. Okay, thank you. You get back to us on that. And while you're at it and maybe the answer to this is obvious to other.

others. I think Zaslow said of Shane Beamer, his days are numbered. Oh, yeah. That phrase, does that come from execution, from prison, from days are numbered? I'd like... He could have 100% caught that ball. But it's in foul territory. I don't think he could. That is insane. He would have gotten a glove to it. 100%.

This is like Tony saying that the field goal is good. Bartman has a right to ball. 100% I'm not, everyone is saying it right now. No, you guys are insane. He absolutely could have got that ball. He could not have caught it. It's hidden in his glove. He could have caught her.

Jeremy, what you're not allowed to do is walk into the room and say who is saying that when Amin said a minute earlier when you weren't here that David Samson was saying. Well, I wasn't here. Just be silent in those instances. In all instances. Well, not in all instances. Not a bad note. No, I took the note.

Just when you're not in the room and we've set something up. And, I mean, has clearly set something up with credentials and names and sourcing. You don't come in because you haven't been listening and make the whole show revolve around your narcissism because the show can't be the show unless you're in the middle of it. That's my bit. I'm going to tell you something. I'm very down on Jeremy today. I got to be honest with you, Dan.

Tepid commissioner. Oh, enough of this. Not tepid. I told the mean. I have told a mean. Hold on Jeremy. Let him set up what the objection is. Before you object to the objection.

I'm good. So the audience can know what he's talking about. Tepid commissioner. Because? So Amin lost last week in the bucket. Fair and square. He is challenging whether or not he has to do a punishment. And of course, it's the commissioner, tepid commissioner, who is hearing him out.

Amin so far is winning this dispute because the tepid commissioner is not doing anything about it. Hold on. First of all. Done plenty. Why am I in this? You haven't done anything. Why am I in this? I presented a very strong case based on precedent.

Why are you talking like that? What's the case? What is the controversy? Is anyone going to tell us why it is that Jeremy's a tepid commissioner? Is anyone going to tell us what Amin's controversy and objection is? Fair Commissioner. I will set this up for you, Dan. Amin was involved.

Amin didn't like that. I put a helmet back. That's what a tepick commissioner does. It just leaves. It doesn't handle a problem. So I pulled twice. I put the first helmet back. I pulled twice and the team, the second team that I pulled lost.

Amin didn't like that I put the first helmet back. But here's the detail that he always seems to omit when he is lodging this complaint. It's that the helmet that I put back was a Carolina Panthers. They were playing the Cleveland Browns. Carolina Panthers lost to the Cleveland Browns. So had I held on to the Carolina Panther helmet, he still would have lost. Ladies and gentlemen of the court, the fine Mr. Michael wants to present a case that my objection was about to throw him back of the helmet to give you an illusion. To distract you from the truth.

The truth of the matter is it was never about the putting back of the helmet. It was about the pulling of a first helmet to begin with. I'd like to cite years of precedent. this here program that when someone is in a segment and is going to leave the segment early we have done one of two things either number one present that individual with the chance to pull his helmet or her helmet because we love that his or her helmet ahead of everyone else's and then the Reaper comes back later or we move the appearance of the Reaper to earlier in the program that's how

how we've done it for years. And it was a system that worked and everyone loved it. Now all of a sudden, now of a sudden, Amino Hassan, in the studio, stepped out of the studio, should we have had him pull it earlier? Should we have had him pull it later?

No, we are going to get this intel over. Michael. Michael, to pull on his behalf. What was that voice you did? Michael. You're doing foghorn, leghorn, yeah? No, he's doing a southern attorney in a Mississippi courtroom. Yeah, but if you've watched Coyote v. Acme, this is a whole fine line.

I do believe it's a good impression. He's wearing overalls or suspenders. Suspenders? I set. I set. AI isn't something that's coming five or ten years from now. Businesses are already using it every day, and it's changing everything from the questions they ask to the decisions they make, and even the routine work people don't have time for. That's the idea behind NetSuite Next.

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Going for two when you're up by five. Switching the zone when man isn't working. Oh, and building your new stadium in the state your team actually plays in. In sports, some things just make sense. What else makes sense? Drinking Yeagermeister shots, ice cold. Drinking it any other way would be like punting on first down or letting your worst hitter bat first or like going for two when you're down three with a second to go. It wouldn't make any sense. So don't let the team down when it comes to Yeagermeister, drink it cold or don't drink it at all! Jaegermeister, damn that's cold.

Drink responsibly, Yeagermeister lique, 35% alcohol by volume, imported by massed Yeagermeister U.S., White Plains, New York. Dan Levitar. You're going to go to Buffalo with Bernie Parmally. Mike Ryan. And the Jigs. This is the Dan Levitar show. This is why he's tepid.

There's a case being made right now and the commissioner has left the room and is waiting outside. Can you imagine? Can you imagine if the NFL there's a case going on in the NFL and Roger Goodell doesn't agree with what's happening? He gets up in the middle of the case and just waits outside the lobby. That's a tepe commission. I got to be honest with you. I side with Jeremy on this. Chris was the last drop in a bucket on Jeremy's fed up with everything that's happening here.

Okay, but it isn't my fault that Jeremy left the room, came back, and the first question he asked was to something that had been answered. Who said that? That had been answered 35 seconds later. So, legitimately. Oh, guy a minute ago? So, but the way that it worked was everyone who's listening to this knew the answer to that question, except the person asking. it because he wasn't in the room. I like to imagine that he was asleep and he woke up to say, who said that?

So what is the ruling then? What's going to happen here? Jeremy is the commissioner. This is something that's always a problem. We never have commissioners who have any kind of strength around here. He'll be doing a punishment. I literally got, I mean, multiple costumes because he wouldn't decide on which one that he wanted to use.

So I spent time, sorry, I'm trying to figure out of it. So I literally got him multiple costumes. He said, oh, I'll do the Odyssey costume. And I said, okay, great. And then he said, no, I'll be in character. I won't wear the costume. And I said, no, you will not. Absolutely not.

We fought back and forth in a group chat over and over and over again. I insisted that he said, fine, I'll do Erling Halan. So what did I do? I worked with our crack crew to make sure that we had both costumes on hand for a mean so that he could even have his choice in the matter. But then he's here on Thursday. And by the way, had to fight with Mike in another group chat until ultimately, by the way, he caved. Even Michael was able to cave because I am anything but a tepid commissioner.

I'm on top of my shit. No, you were wrong. Good speed. You were wrong. I had to take a mascot from the losing team. I had the saints. And the guy was trying to make me dress like a dog. That's the mascot.

No, no, I picked a young recent saint that passed away and I wanted to share his story with the world. And yeah, I might have just been wearing a red polo. But that is a saint. Dan, you should have seen this morning. I'm doing my work at the table out there, minding my own business. And Amin while he is eating breakfast, I did not have a bagel today. Amin while he's eating breakfast, okay, is laying into Jeremy about how he's not doing any of this. Jeremy's sitting there in the fetal position.

That's tepid. But not tepid in what he just said. Like he's just announced in front of everyone the ruling. No, and he's going to get a fine otherwise. Like I am the commissioner. This is a new era of this bucket. Just because you're citing precedent. I mean, that's ridiculous.

Like, you are absolutely paying this punishment, and if you don't pay it today, you will have to pay it off on another full day where Dan is here, because we all know this is for his kink. Tomorrow does not count. I'm sorry, Mike, you dressed as Jake from State Farm? Wayne Johnson's right there. It's a great way to switch gears. How do we feel about Jeremy as a Halloween costume? He's going to... Being Jeremy? We can virtue signal. He's going to put one apron on top of the other and be the NBA. A's second apron.

So scary. Love a good purchase signal. Do you like that as an idea, Zaz? I do. I can't wait. It's a pretty easy costume. I'd like to steal that. Really?

Yeah, I like it. We all have to act very terrified, though, whenever he comes around. Like, can I be the first apron? You'll be the second. Okay, you can be the first. You could be James Dolan and just be really scared in the second apron.

That's good. The thing about the second apron is, I was asked this question yesterday. Why is it called an apron? And I said, I don't know. It's an apron. Like, it's a threshold, really, is what we're talking about. These are thresholds. How's an apron a threshold?

Apparently, Stephen A thinks grief and mental illness are the same thing. Put it on the poll at Lebitard show. Do you know why they call it an apron? Because I don't know the answer to your question. I mean, is our basketball expert? He is an executive. and the question is not something I can answer. Everyone's teed off, even colleagues at ESPN,

more than comfortable to throw Stephen A. under the bus, and you do not put Stephen A. Smith in a corner. I'll tell you that right now. Wouldn't it be an awning? Right? An awning, like a second awning makes sense, right? He is fighting his way out of it, and he will not capitulate. A rung.

Different rungs on a ladder. The second rung. Maybe that doesn't sound high enough, right? the higher rung, lower rung, higher rung. It's like a gerb. Trying to fight its way out of Richard Gears' nether region. Does it seem to you as random as it being a second kimono? Like a second apron, a second kimono?

Like, why is it an apron? And why aren't more people asking why is it an apron? Stephen A says, we just didn't understand what he meant. And he thinks that's going to suffice. A poncho, perhaps. The second poncho. Second raincoat? Right?

What other garments are there? Maybe like a belt? Second belt. Oh, there you go, because you've got to tighten your belt when you want to save money. Could have merely had it go away if he said, my bad. But do you think Stephen A. Smith will ever say, my bad? Jeremy, do me the favor, please, of looking up what it is that the origins of days being numbered are, I don't know if it's a prisoner just, you know, marking days in his cell.

I'd like to actually know what the origins of that. You can also find for us why the second apron is called the second apron. It's a protective layer. That's it. Oh. Yeah, so it could be like the coat or the rain jacket. They chose apron. Yeah, but I would think that the first apron is fine enough. Like second apron, why there's no third apron? Like what is happening there with the aprons. Do you believe, I mean, if you had to guess a percentage of NBA fans who understand the second apron. Very low. Extremely low to the point where, again, my friend who asked me why they call it an apron, I had to say, you know what, you don't need to know any of this. I think this is one of the great downfalls of sports fandom and the way we consume sports, is that everyone

feels like they have to go get an accounting degree to understand. And the reality is, no, you don't. It's so unfan friendly. Just watch the product and then ask the question, hey, can we go out and trade for Wembenyama and I'll say no because of this rule or that rule. You don't have to know the rules. You just need to watch what you're seeing on the court. You do have to know the rules. Part of being a fan is having conversation about training for this player, signing this player. Fans like talking about that stuff and the NBA's made it incredibly unfan friendly that this is a real part of basketball discourse. But I would argue 15 years ago, it wasn't. People just cared about the product. They might say, oh, I wish we could get so-and-so, but they weren't like

pouring over the collective bargaining agreement. No, man, 15 years ago was as simple as how much money does Team X have under the salary cap? Okay, cool. They could sign that guy. Yes, but also it was stuff like, hey, can we trade for so-and-so? And I was the guy that had to say, no, because the salaries don't match and all this other stuff. Gerbil is a 12-episode investigative podcast from the Hollywood Reporter, hosted by veteran journalist Alan Salkin. And it takes all 12 episodes to get down to the bottom of Richard Gearsbottom. Nick Wright mentioned the other day when he was on with us that sports fans don't want to do homework. And I think today's sports fan wants to do homework more than any other sports fan that's ever existed.

And I think it's to the detriment of their enjoyment of the product. I think fans were happier when they just watched their team, cheer, boo, maybe even pine, help can we get someone? But when they started getting into oh, I got alone with the second apron and the tax player mid-level exceptionally, that's not for them to worry about. In the same way that, like, I watch football,

I still don't really know how the NFL salary cap works, like franchise tags and all this stuff. There's a lot of shit in NFL business that I don't get, but I don't need to get it. All I need to do is watch James Winston. Oh, we missed the window. Stephen A

started first take with a lengthy apology and said, quote, here's the reality of the situation. I was wrong. The thing that I would ask Amin and the audience here, and I'd ask it as a poll question as well, because I really don't know how this is going to come back as an answer. Do you want to be a smarter fan? Yes or no? Because very often what I am finding is that sports fans who are the most passionate and the most religious about this, the most fervent. They want more and more information. They want more and more data.

They want to know better what it is that they're watching. It's not true of everyone. And I would say, in American society at large, we have a general literacy problem on where it is that people presently are on just learning,

but I don't think it's necessarily true of sports fans. Yes, some are formed, but I think I can form a pretty good argument that the sports fan that exists today is the smartest sports fan that has ever existed on average. I think sports fans like having information when it pertains to the game. Like in baseball, learning about on-base percentage, that was important, learning about slugging percentage, that was important. Fans don't want to hear about first and second aprons and the punitive measures that come along with being in the tax.

That is nothing to do with the actual game. So what changed from last night to this morning? Because he doubled down. And now he apologized. Who got to him? Or did he realize the error of his ways and is turning over a new leave? I just kind of wish I was dumber overall. Like it's kind of miserable knowing everything.

It's the best. No, ignorance is bliss. I really wish I was a dumber person. I'd be so much happier. So much fun, dude. It reminds me of a. scene from broadcast news. You can be ignorant and not dumb.

The scene, the very unlikable, is it Holly Hunter, Holly Hunter. Holly Hunter. Holly Hunter. Love her. She in the movie is a bit off-putting and condescending, and her boss says to her, it must be nice to be smarter than everyone else, or it must be nice to know everything. And she's like, no, it's terrible. Absolutely. It is. It's miserable.

What are the origins of days are numbered, please? It, of course, comes from the Bible. And so in Daniel 526, it says, God hath numbered thy kingdom and finished it. And then it was brought into colloquial terms, of course. The discovery of witchcraft from 1584, where they wrote that a man's body was subject to death and hath his days numbered. Witchcraft. What did you find a ghost? Lane Johnson's a ghost. What did you find out about the the second apron or the apron or why it's called an apron. Yeah, it's that. It's just the protection. It doesn't tax apron doesn't seem to come up anywhere else, which is strange. I assumed that this was just a general financial term. But no, the immediate hit is to go to the NBA and where they have the first apron and the second apron. And it's just a border adding sort of limits and protections.

It's protecting the team from spending too much, protecting the owners? From hot oil. Yeah, I was just going to ask, protecting whom from what? This is like the, what's it, save college sports actor or whatever? Protect college sports. Who's it protecting? Like, yeah, not the athletes. It's protecting the colleges. Tony, you know that moment at a party or a tailgate where everything just sort of clicks?

I know it well. It's usually when I show up. Everybody goes crazy. Yeah, you usually take all the credit for it. But it's because Tony usually walks in with quervo. Walking like this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Quervo is a thing that turns hanging out into this is the night.

It has that effect on people. It does. You usually take the credit for it. But again, it's the Cuervo effect. It's like that moment in a big game where everyone in the crowd just starts standing up, hooting and hollering. Keep it Cuervo. Keep it, quervo, baby. Dan Levitar. Let's throw to my boy Jeremy Tache, who's sideline right now. Tash money. What's you got for me. Jeremy Tache. Thanks, Jacks. This is the Dan Lebatar show. Speaking of that, I saw that ESPN has been promoting a six-part documentary series about Nick Sabin. I participated in one of those recently. I'm assuming it's this one. I'm assuming there's not a second Sabin documentary.

And I'm curious whether you guys are curious about what's going to be revealed in that documentary. You can make the argument that Nick Sabin is one of the great winner. of all sports time. You can make the argument that he's one of the best leaders to ever emerge from sports in reputation. And this last act of his career is an amazing evolution,

gets out at exactly the right time, and just starts advocating on behalf of, let me be the ambassador on behalf of protecting this better than anyone else can protect it. Are you guys interested in that documentary? I am, because they played a, clip on Game Day and I was really into the clip that they played on Game Day. It premieres tonight on ESPN the first episode and then upon that program ending, all the episodes are going to be

available on demand. I read one review of it and says that it's good, but it only gets as inside Nick Saban as he allows you to get there. But like even still limited access and not the full story is plenty captivating from the clip that I saw. I'm going to tell you right now. And maybe this is bad on me. There is no part of, they say, hey, we have a docuseries on an ESPN employee that is going to be airing on ESPN that I think is going to be even a smidgen of objective or illuminating or interesting in any way. I like it when Nick Sabin tries to be an asshole. And like the clip that I saw, like he was talking that shit. And I think that, look, he's one of the more important sports figures of my life. And he is way more interesting than Bill Belichick.

And yes, he is much better in front of a microphone than Bill Belichick. He's had a more interesting story, I think. I don't like either guy. I thought Sabin immediately came off likable while Belichick was his typically unpleasant. I think when Nick Sabin speaks, I listen. I think he's a very captivating speaker. I think he's one of the best leaders of our time. And I want to find out about this story and I want to marvel at the success that he had. I have a handful of questions about what it is that you guys said and a story to tell you as well. I think that I heard Dominique Foxworth the other day. I think this was with Bommani, where Bumani was asking as Nick Saban was being brought out to advocate on behalf of this act that we talked to Cory Booker about yesterday, he told you, hey, what ESPN is doing

there is bogus and Sabin is obviously in bed with a rights holder and that rights holder wants to protect its football money and football in general, which doesn't mean paying the athletes. And because I only saw a clip and I was listening passively, I'm pretty sure I heard this correctly. Somebody please correct me if you think I have this wrong. But it seemed to me that Dominique Foxworth wasn't allowed on the set with Sabin as somebody who's labor friendly, who knows a lot about the NFL PA and I haven't talked to Dominique about this so I'm being a little irresponsible because I just thought well yeah in fact let me do this yeah yeah not a little can we look it up because I did see a quote of him saying that he did not like Nick Saban's appearance he said it was

gross yeah he was made uncomfortable by Nick Saban's appearance on get up you're good we can probably just call him and ask him but because we're alive and I'm stuck up in there I don't know what it is that I'm saying is true but I think I heard it correctly when I And it bothered me, right? Because I would love somebody to challenge Nick Sabin on the air about this, especially somebody with Dominique's credentials. And it would bother me if I were Dominique or if I'm just a viewer that they don't allow Dominique to do anything that's challenging.

And this shows their hand, Dan, because Dominique's not a rabble rouser here to just debate and kind of like go for low blows or whatever. It's a very intelligent guy who's going to, I would think, create great television of us having the two different different sides being discussed intelligently. Oh, but you don't believe that Sabin would be good with, like, a debate. Sabin has not been challenged whatsoever.

He's not going to want it to be. He's not been challenged whatsoever. The only thing that they do, they put their hands up, hey, I'm pro. The player's getting some money. And they think that that's virtuous. The last time Sabin got challenged on ESPN Air was when Shane Gillis called him Indiana Jones. Alabama Jones. Alabama Jones.

Oh, my God. He was pissed. He did not like that joke. The other story that I wanted to tell you in terms of where it is that these private protections can help some folks. Alex Rodriguez has had one of the most amazing reinventions I've ever seen from someone who was stained by a cheating scandal. every broadcast team that wanted to put a voice on television was trying to hire Alex Rodriguez and Alex Rodriguez at one time. Do I have this right? He was working for Fox and ESPN at the same time, was he not? He was, yeah. For a while. And in the midst of all of that, Billy Corbyn, the extraordinary documentarian, did a great documentary that you can still see that was called

Screwball about how ridiculous A. Raj Cheney. cheating was and all the cheating was in baseball. And because ESPN had that documentary and because ESPN had A-Rod, they let the documentary go. They could have just killed it. So salute to them for actually allowing Billy Corbyn to have it back so that he could put it somewhere. But they were protecting their own there in a way that obviously is a conflict. And so if you, ESPN is doing a Nick Saban documentary, does it have any chance of being warts and all? Does it have? Because I think it's going to be interesting.

I think Nick Saban is interesting. But if you can't get close to the truth and it's going to be propaganda, it's just going to be, hey, let's show this to Nick and see how he feels about it and give him some creative control over how he's presented. That becomes far too diluted for my viewing experience. I think we're making a bunch of assumptions based off of one review that I alluded to, because he does take you inside these moments. And I do think when it comes to Miami, he has his regrets. And he's been pretty forthright in sharing those.

And I imagine we'll learn something here. In the clip that they showed on College Game Day, it was all about his return to Baton Rouge. And it played into Lane Kiffin's return to Oxford. And he was speaking truthfully. And like I said, it was captivating. And the people that they have weighing in on these moments. in their career do give voice to other side and how much vitriol there was for him.

So I think it's going to be pretty good. I'm not making assumptions, Mike. I'm legitimately asking questions. And when you mention that Nick Saban has some regrets about Miami, you know that I have some regrets about how I talked about Nick Saban after he left Miami because I did not have a crucial detail that I would have to have. And it's a detail that would have explained some things about how he left Miami. and it's that Wayne Hizenga, the owner of the Dolphins, told him as part of his recruitment of Nick Saban,

who did not want to go to the pros, didn't want to come to Miami, didn't want to test his ego in the NFL the way Urban Meyer needed to. Hezenga told Nick Sabin that if at any point he wanted to leave or was unhappy, he could. And it's why when he left, Hizenga had a press conference in which he was not angry at all. Because as part of Nick Sabin's recruitment, he just said, look, if this is bad for you, you can just stop and I will not have any problem with that. Absent that information, I went really hard at Nick Saban and was over the top in terms of calling him names and I have great regrets about that. I know I'm guilty of this, but I tend to check out on documentaries before I see any of it because in my mind it's not going to be the documentary that I want to see. But let me ask you, was the Michael Jordan documentary as forthright as it could have?

have been? No. Michael Jordan played a lot of things very close to the vest, and there were plenty of things that you wanted to hear about, and you didn't. Was it awesome? Hell yeah, it was awesome. It was awesome, but it was also a massive commercial that aired at a time where we didn't have a lot of original programming. We didn't have any sports programming. Tiger King. And on top of all of that, you're talking about the greatest mythology in sports, which is Michael Jordan. And Nick Saban, obviously, storied career. He is nowhere near the size of a myth that Michael Jordan. In his sport, though, he is the greatest, the same way that Michael Jordan is the greatest.

The thing about mythology, though, you're right. Obviously, you're right. I mean, but the qualifier I would offer to you is there is no greater mythology in sports than how we love the idea of leadership, of a person that everyone who's strong wants to follow. Like that mythology is forever interesting to people who believe that the muscle can't do it without the brain, that the muscle can't do it without the discipline. And this is one of the great discipliners of all time. Yes, you're talking about a concept. I'm talking about an actual specific figure. The mythology of Michael Jordan, which by the way is all of that, is the muscle and the

mind and the leadership and all everything that you describe as a concept in one human being. I'm fascinated to learn some insight. I think he's a great leader. There's a great speech that he gave about getting the right guys on the bus and high achievers, mediocre people that I think is like one of the more impactful speeches that I use. High achievers don't like mediocre people. Mediocre people. Yeah, don't like high achievers. High achievers don't like mediocre people. My job here is to get the right guys on the bus. And it was a great speech. And the same way that people turn to the winner within, I think Nick Saban, in terms of leaders, is of that ilk. But also, he once stepped over a convulsing player at Miami. I want to know if he's learned from trial and error from

leadership. You don't think also, though, that was the difference between coaching student athletes and coaching professionals. Yeah. And I think also it's the difference as to why he's not coaching now because the dynamic change. I think Nick Saban is really good at leading when the buck stops with him. I think he knows how to run a program. I think he knows how to hire coaches. I think he knows how to instill a culture and also get coaches that can get the dudes. I think for that era in college football, there's a reason why he dominated because he was a very best at it. He also could reach a wide variety of people because I've heard a number of former players

talk about his excellence and his wisdom. And Ricky Williams is among them. And he felt understood by very few people in the world, never mind coaches. so you would think that a disciplinarian who could reach across all sorts of aisles to where it is that human beings are, that any information that you're getting, even if it's packaged and polished and a little bit of propaganda, is more information than you already have about something that people are wildly interested in. Who said that? Tony, you know that moment at a party or at a tailgate where everything just sort of clicks?

I know it well. It's usually when I show up. Everybody goes crazy. Yeah, you usually take all the credit for it, but it's because Tony usually walks in with quarebo. I'm walking like this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Quervo is a thing that turns hanging out into this is the night. It has that effect on people. It does. You usually take the credit for it, but again, it's the quervo effect.

It's like that moment in a big game where everyone in the crowd just starts standing up, hooting and hollering. Keep it quervo. Keep it quervo, baby.