The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - GBF- Football is Back! HOF Game and QB Tiers!

Episode Date: August 4, 2023

Football is back! The guys react to the return of football and the HOF game, Revis Island's expansion, Did Joe Mixon taking a pay cut hurt RBs moving forward and Jim Irsay's $20 million bill to move a whale. Mike Sando joins the show to break down this year's QB tiers! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You're listening to Giraffe King's Network. God bless football Billy Gill. God bless football Mikey. God bless football Stu Gatz. Well Mikey, the jet season got underway last night. The big story is how fat the rail revises. Oh no. And joke like a almost tripping over zone Jew. I mean, they opened up a few buffets on Revis Island, huh? Terrible. You all you could eat. He's as big as an island now. I mean, that's not nice.

I know, it's awful. It's an island. I want to visit now. Billy, was it nice to have football back? Just watching football. It wasn't competitive football. Wasn't good football. None of those guys will play the regular season.

But it was football there's football yesterday I did feel bad we were talking to gods before you came on it was kind of a weird decision they made because they gave throughout Revis about 45 seconds of time for an interview like they started out with Ronde Barbara he had like a nice 15 minute interview going in, everything that meant to him, whatever, right? Then they had Joe Thomas come in and Joe Thomas did his thing and he had like another 10, 15 minutes or whatever, right? And then with a minute and 15 seconds left in the first half or something like, oh, we want to welcome in to rel Revis now. I'm like, wait, what? Like, how much time are we giving to rel Revis? And he did, he didn't even make it to halftime before they wrapped up the segment.

Then they scored a touchdown during his drive where he was like, it was like one of the nicer questions that they asked where he could actually talk. And the brown score a touchdown. They quoted Urban Dictionary when talking about Reva Sionland for him, Melissa Stark was like, Urban Dictionary says, a Reva Sionland is blah blah, do you agree with this? It was like, it was a strange kind of sequence

that happened with the real Reva's. And the poor guy, everyone's just saying that he's gained a lot of weight, which by the way, if I ever retire, which I'm not sure that I'll be able to retire in this industry, but if I ever retire, well, actually in this industry, I'll probably be retired and then I'm gonna have to retire out

exactly a backup plan and what am I gonna do to address in my life, but should I ever reach retirement on my terms? I wanna look like that in retirement. You know what I mean? You wanna game weight. Yeah, what the hell do I wanna look like Jason Taylor for in retirement? What's the point of that?

You know what I mean? Like, why am I going to retire from being a professional athlete to continue being a professional athlete and waking up and going to the gym and working out my entire life. No, thank you. So does that mean I'm going to do the Joe Thomas retirement, where I'm going to go from being the big guy to being like that guy playing offensive line?

Like maybe I'll do that way and you could go the other way. That's fine. I'm fine with that. Sounds like I'm not taking the Tom Brady lane just never retiring Did you see about a soccer team this week like can you just go a week without doing anything take a week off just from whatever What from buying stuff from just being Tom Brady and being in the news just take a week off buddy You know, we don't need to talk about you constantly and this will soccer team enough Enough with enough with athletes buying soccer teams okay like we get it Ryan Reynolds did it it's

up the shark already it really has Ryan Reynolds did it and then his soccer team took off and they got a show and it was like a whole thing and like now every Tom Dick and Harry around town is buying minority stakes in soccer teams and I'm getting sick and tired of it enough I'll put that on the pole please is every Tom Dick and Harry by themselves as soccer team, please. First it was the pickleball thing and everyone's a pickleball team owner.

Now everyone's buying minority steaks and soccer teams like enough's enough already, okay? Like, we get it, you're rich, Tom Brady. You can buy minority steaks in every team around town. We got it. But I think what you're railing against is crazy. Like you don't like the craze. Like when things start picking up steam where everything because you know

People are trying to copy cat each other like pickleball everyone played pickleball. It came it went. It's gone I haven't heard about pickleball since you just brought it up just now But you don't like craze is is what you're saying is it gone this pickleball done? I mean people are still playing it, but the craze is kind of you know the wave is over You know start to settle down. I guess well Did they have an offseason? Do they have a season? I don't know how I still haven't I'll get to pickle ball When everyone else is left pickle ball and the courts are empty and then I can have fun You know what I mean like I'm still like in my racquetball phase where like there's just a round town and certain areas that just

where like there's just a round town in certain areas that just giant abandoned monuments of the racquetball walls that exist at public parks and like the problem is is that because it was like a fat and a craze like the 80s or whatever it was right like that's the last time a lot of these courts were cared for so there's like potholes in them and stuff like that so you can't really play in them but I'll get to pickleball eventually. How about this? Here's my commitment to pickleball. If I get to sit retirement that's but I'll get to pickle ball eventually. How about this? Here's my commitment to pickle ball. If I get to said retirement, that's when I'll pick it up, which is who pickle ball was intended for, by the way, the retirees. And it is a damn shame that everybody has come and taken away the activity of the retirees. I don't like it one bit.

Right. So you'll get to it on your terms is what you're saying. What are we talking about? There was football yesterday. How did we end up here? Well, because they're all really just not stopped eating since he stopped playing football. By the way, I will tell you this Jason Taylor, okay? Billy, I don't think he's still going to the gym. I think that just comes natural to Jason Taylor. It's impossible. Yeah. Come on, Billy. Billy, he's like 64. He's just one of those like physical freaks of nature, you know?

You know what? annoys me and I don't know this as a fact that I'm just gonna assume that it's a fact. So go with me on this I'm sure Jason Taylor wakes up some days and he's like, oh I'm in horrible shape and it's just like, you know what? Shut the hell up. Just shut up. Just shut up. Do I have to go down that row with you? What if he never wakes up and says that to himself? He wakes up and I'm sure he looks in the mirror and he tells his wife, you know what?

God, I used to be in so much better shape. I can't believe it. And it's like just shut up. Jason Taylor. He starts pitching his tummy. Yeah, he's like, oh, I'm so fat. Like, okay, got it, got it. Like this.

Like this. You know, like with the tweezers, like, oh, yeah. You know what Billy, I am with you. Jason Taylor, enough. Like, stop doing the thing that we're not certain that you actually do. We get it, you're perfect. You're in an incredible shape, okay?

Like enough. It's a great take by you. Can I ask you a question? Cause I was taking notes during the game yesterday, cause I knew- Yeah, please do, because I have a question for Mikey about Zach Wilson, but I want your questions first. Well, no, let's talk about the actual game

cause my questions are Martha Stewart related. Well, so I was just like Mikey, I think what we saw, okay, I wanna get to those quick. I want your questions. No, no, no, I do too, and I'll get to them quickly, but just to give the audience and us something i think i think some football talk um what you wanted to see out of that jack game last night is exactly what you saw you wanted to see because in the event that i heard rajas goes down

you would like to know that zack wilson has improved slightly and it seemed just by last night i know it's preseason game number one hall of fame Fame game, I get it, my key, I, but he looked pretty good. And here's what I love the most about it. Zach Wilson finally has a big pass play and the guy getting credit is Aaron Rogers from make of the mic all. He looked, he looked good in 3d series when, when they threw one long pass like come on. Like all my friends are texting me. Oh, Zach Wilson looks great. You got saw Zach Wilson. No, he didn't.

He had a nice throw that Aaron Rodgers told him to do. I know, but Mikey, why are you rooting against him? Like what? Like we need him to be okay if any of that Aaron Rodgers gets fired. No, Mikey's moving. Mikey's moving. Mikey's moving.

I am on this train and I'm not getting off. I think he's a Tim Boyle guy now. I got to be honest. Oh really? Strabler. Strabler. Lord, he's the last. Stair.

One for seven. For nine yards. That's your and your criticize the guy you want to reify. You're an ass man. Can I tell you my favorite quote from last night? Oh wait, before we move on from Zach Wilson, let me ask you guys a question. How do you feel about Aaron Rogers posting a happy birthday little bro thing for Zach Wilson?

Do you think Zach Wilson likes it because I do not think that he likes Aaron Rogers calling him little brother? And I don't know if you guys made it to the third quarter, but Aaron Rogers was talking to the booth for the third quarter. And in the conversation, he was talking, it was, oh, I couldn't believe it was being said. In the conversation, he was talking about how much he loves the role of being a mentor. And it was always something that he's taken seriously in his career. He's got his career to all the quarterbacks underneath them. And I was like, hold on a second. That's not how I remember things.

All the jet quarterbacks underneath and he's done that. Who left the hardest of that? Jordan? No, they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's just treating this New York thing the way they've described it. Like he was in prison in green Bay they're like boy was to Broadway shows he went to see Taylor Swift he went to see Ed Sheeran he's having a great time and when it really clicked for him was when he was in Madison Square

Garden and he saw Spike Lee and Martha Stewart and then he knew that he was in the right places like wait what like what are we doing for me? But Billy, he's seen the sun. And that's important. He never saw that in Green Bay, Wisconsin. Can I tell you real quick, my quote of the day yesterday? Because you have a quote of the day. I have a quote of the day.

Yeah. Do you still have questions? Or it was from Chris Collinsworth, the quote of the day. There are some people who play really well in shorts and some people who play really well in pads on and That's the reason these preseason games are so important He's right. What does that? Yeah? What does it mean football's back? Oh, no, but he's right

We're saying things that don't make sense Billy's right football's back We're saying things that don't make sense. Billy's right footballs back. Mike Ye, he's back. Finally. He's so back. I'm not there, but he's back. Billy Gill is back. I know. Let's work for you. When do you, when does your world tour stop if I may ask? Never. I don't know. I don't know. I kind of like the way my career is going. I like where I find out. It's working out. Just kind of bounce around and doing different things. Yeah.

It's great for you, not so much for others, I would say. Like everyone. Like everyone that has to plan around. I think you may never be around. So Billy, while you were gone, he asked me if I missed you. And the way I described it was he is just emanating chaos constantly from his being. And there's this Mount Everest of chaos. And I didn't realize how much of that you filtered before it got to me

until you weren't there to filter it. And I missed you terribly. Well, you know, what's funny about that? And like this is kind of going behind the curtain or whatever, right? Is it like that's kind of the reputation that I have been given on the show or whatever? It's like I'm just like this chaotic person

that likes making things more difficult than they have to do and all this stuff. And I'm like, I just kind of appreciate the way you describe that situation. He cleans up the chaos. He filters it. I would put myself and no one is going to care about these rankings, but I would put myself like more on the responsible than chaotic side behind the scenes.

Are you saying of our crew and you're talking about the entire leviton show crew that you feel like you are the most responsible of everyone in that room? Not most responsible. I would say though, if there was a line, I would be closer to the responsible side. Right. And others that would be more towards the, ah, let's have fun

side. You know what I mean? We'll figure it outside. Right. Yes. You're a tier one responsibility guy. Let's have fun site, you know what I mean? We'll figure it outside, right? Yes. You're a tier one responsibility guy. Oh, you're a coach. Tears. What took so long to someone for someone to write an article, to ask a bunch of coaches

and GMs for their quarterback tears. What took someone so long and why was that person not me? Well, I mean, someone did do tear talk, but it was Chris Sims, so then it was like, well, let's get a real tour of this. Yeah, those are his tears. Those are right. Exactly right.

From other sources. We're having Mike Sandois from the athletic. He actually took tear talk to a whole new level. Okay, like this is this is crazy what he's what he's done, but it's August and it's the perfect time to talk about quarterback tears. Okay, and this guy has narrowed it out. I don't know if I agree with his tears. I think his and Sims' list are pretty different. Aren't that? Um, so I have his list in front of me and i have christ sims is listed front of

me at the same time so i mean the top of the list are similar enough the thing that with christ sims is listed to stop forty quarterbacks right and his tears all have these cute names that mikey before had asked him about and it was basically just like He came up with the top 40 and then they tried to assign names to like every bunch of like two or three people in here You know what I mean? So like yeah his his tears are like there's one that just says the robot like that's not a tear That's just the nickname I guess that he gave Justin Herbert and it's not it doesn't even say the robot like that's not a tear that's just the nickname I guess that he gave just in her bird and it's not it doesn't even say the robot it just says the and then a little

robot emoji then there's a tear that says still a and then a goat emoji and a question mark and that's for Aaron Rogers but again that's not a tear or Mike Sando who's going to be coming on later has actual four tears and then he has all of his quarterbacks assigned to a tier. Hmm. So you're saying, you're saying Sims got a little cute with his tiers, right? I'm saying that I think that maybe maybe not Sims, maybe the people that handle Sims or whatever was like, you know what, the whole top 40 quarterback thing played out. How do we spice things up a little?

Let's give him cutesy, butsy nicknames for these different little groupings of players. And that's what they did. Where Mike Sando is all business and he said, you know what, 30 QBs, I'm gonna put them all in tears. And I know you're probably thinking, well, there's 32, but for some reason, the list that I see only has 30.

So I don't know if the last tube that remainer in tier five or if we just did 30 for some reason. Well, maybe they have no idea who the Texans quarterback is gonna be, you know? I don't wanna reveal his tears, so. Okay, really? You don't want it, we're gonna talk to him about his tears in a minute, though.

You know what's long gone? Long gone are the days of the tease. You know what I mean? Because in the time that I said that, a person now has gone on the internet and already found the list. So I can't really say like, I don't want to reveal the list

because you can just find it yourself. It's the same thing as like sports center where sports center before was like, oh crap, I missed the highlights of the pirates versus the, you know, cardinals or whatever. I need to now wait 60 minutes until that's gonna come back on again. Like what happened?

Where now I'm just like, I'll check on my phone and have it in two seconds and have all the information. Do you have your own tears, Billy? I don't yet. I should probably start working on that, right? Yeah, I think, well, and should we give San no names for his tears,

even though we're mocking Sims for two weeks, up to a little too cutesy, would see, you know? Should we ask Sando if he wants us to name his tears? Cause we can do it. Yeah, we could, right? Sims didn't like when I asked him about that though. If he teared them based on finding a cute name for it, he did not like when I asked him about that.

Well, that's just his general dislike of you and Billy and me. I mean, really, that's what it is. He seems annoyed by us. He seems a little easy to rattle for six. You know what I mean, really, what it is, he seems annoyed by us. He seems, he seems a little easy to rattle for six. You know what I mean? For you, the wonder didn't work out. No wonder didn't work out the NFL. Oh my God. I'll say it to him when he's here. Okay. I say no. I want to say that. You went to work. We're, we're, we're, Sims and I are in a good place

in sack, Wilson got benched. What is it? Was it a spleen? The reason why it didn't work out in the NFL. Yeah, they removed it. Oh, can I can I give you guys a spoiler alert? I feel like I tell people I'm too honest with with some things. And I tell people too much that I shouldn't tell people, but whatever. I feel like we're all talking amongst friends. So I just kind of sometimes say things. Uh, have you guys seen that viral clip that comes out every year and it'll come

out soon where it is John Bruten giving Chris Sims like a complicated play call and he keeps watching it and he can't get the name right for the play call. Have you seen that's the guts. I have seen. Yeah. and again, I probably shouldn't be saying this, but whatever already here. There is discussion here that there may be an opportunity next week for two of us to take part in a competition with an NFL team that will be in the area. And we will be competing and we will be given by the head coach, complicated plays, 10 complicated plays one at a time, and we'll be competing with

each other to see who can remember the play the best and who gets points for how many names they have come up with in the play that's given to us, which I was asked if I wanted to participate in. And I said, yeah, I'm down to do that. But that was immediately thinking like, this is going to go very poorly for me because I can't remember anything. Just remember, Billy, say it with confidence. Doesn't matter if you say it wrong. Say it with confidence. Well the game is nailing it, so I do have to nail it, but I will say it with confidence. No, no, Billy said on the front end that he has to nail it, that you have to remember

what the coach, that's the point of it. What do you mean, say it with confidence? You can't say it with confidence. You got to say it correctly is what Billy is saying. Yeah. Okay. Well, I like in the hotel, they don't care. Yeah. In the hotel, they don't care.

They want to. I'm in on this like, like, can you tell me the team? You're not going to reveal the team. I'm looking at the dolphins, precise and scheduled. Can you tell me what team it is? I'm going to do it. Well, I think that I think that it's still in the work. So I don't want to say it just in case it's not finalized.

But I just, it's the same thing that Chris has had to do except this is going to be just to kind of embarrass a couple of us, I think, because I'm going to, I'm going to bot you. Okay, you know that, if I do it. The Falcons. I can't imagine Arthur Smith wanting to do a part of that, but we'll see. So Arthur Smith is gonna feed us.

If it is indeed the Falcons, that's all I'm saying. If it is, okay, we're speculating, wild speculation here. But if indeed it is the Atlanta Falcons, so Arthur Smith is going to feed us a bunch of complicated play calls, and we have to nail it, is that what we're saying? Cause I am in on this.

This is a fun idea. I'm gonna lose, but I'm in. I mean. Well, if you want to contoss your name into the ring here to see if you will be one of the people that we're participating in. Do you want to be one of the people? You can throw my name in. Where do we have to go?

Well, I think that they're having a, again, I'm not confirming anything, but I think that they're having a, one of those like shared practice things with the dolphins for a couple of days. Okay. And, you know, I was a shock as you were to find out that whoever it is is going to go along with this. I was very surprised to hear that. I thought we were sitting down. Where did this, I thought we were sitting down for an interview with this person.

But then it was like, you want to do this game with this person. I'm like, ah, how do you have access to this person to make this happen and they just told like yeah Carolina person so you already know it was Taylor Taylor was putting this together oh I see okay that's Carolina connection man is like serious like they all take care of each other Mikey I would assume that this is not something you would come down to for right like this is not it's not attractive enough for you to come that you wouldn't come down to a super bowl that did not involve the jet you're not coming down for this right you paying now not but no I know I'm not coming down

that's totally fair all right so we're gonna talk tears quarterback tears with Mike sand up who finally wrote the article that I should have written 10 years ago. But he has done it. He has taught to coaches. He has taught to GMs. He has his tears. We'll discuss it with him next.

We're very excited about this Mike Sando NFL senior writer for the athletic. He did an article that has swept the nation because it's August and we've all been waiting for quarterback tears, the official quarterback tears. Mike, I am jealous. You should be celebrated for doing this. I am jealous that I didn't do this myself about 10 years ago. I know. It really has grown. This is the 10th year of doing it. It started out as kind of a project to figure out what, you know, how people in the league view the quarterback.

So I think at that time, you know, I was working at the SPN at the time and I was really into like the stats of the position. And the SPN had like launched total QBR. And I was really in with all the analytics people that were trying to figure out as, you know, the statistical part of it. And it really spawned into this and I've just learned so much. It's really a fun thing to do and get the different perspectives and sometimes the perspectives say as much about the voters as they

do about the quarterbacks, but it's all part of the fun. Just for our audience, if you want what mine explaining how you went about creating your tears, who do you talk to? How many people did you talk to? Yeah. So it's, I've kept it at 50. We're not doing any more than 50, but this year there's eight GMs, 10 head coaches, 15 coordinators, 10 other kind of for an office personnel type people that are not GMs. And then a handful of different coaches all in the NFL. And, and I'll take all the veteran quarterbacks.

We don't put rookies in. You can't project the rookies. It's too hard, but we'll take this year, there's 30 veteran quarterbacks and I'll ask each one of these people individually, confidentially to place each quarterback into tears. And tier one is for the guys who can kind of carry their team every week and don't really have a hole in their game. And importantly, they need to be really proficient in peer passing situations. And that means when the run game doesn't really help you, right? It's hard just on a quarterback. When you got to throw the ball,

they know you got to throw the ball. Who can handle that? So you think I've had my homes, Joe Burrow, now Josh Allen, obviously over the years Aaron Rogers, Justin Herbert made that tier two guys who can kind of do that some of the time, but maybe there's a hole in their game. You know, maybe they're just not quite as quite to that level or need to prove it in the letter year. So this year, like, Jalen Hurts got to the very top of tier two. He got I think 10 tier one votes out of the 50. But I think a lot of people say, great job. Let's see you do it in another year before you're officially

in that club. Tier three is kind of good guy, good quarterback, probably going to make a lot of money. But Jimmy G, that type of a quarterback at certain times, maybe a Kirk cousins where they're going to be good, but they are dependent more on what's around them. You know, they maybe they need a good defense in a run game. You're going to win with them. You strip those things away. It made the wheels may come off, right? For

those guys more than they would for the guys in the top couple of tears. Tier four is really a catch all. You haven't played enough Brock Perty. I'm not going to, we're not going to put you up there with a guy who's played five years, year at Tier 4, or it could be, hey, Ryan Fitzpatrick, we love you, but we're going to put you in Tier 4 because you're not really in the top three tiers. We wouldn't necessarily want to go the whole year with you as our starter. And that's the tiers. At the end, I take all the votes for everybody and I average them.

So Pat Mahomes is a 1.0050 out of 50. Put them there. Aaron Rogers has been that before this year. He's 30 in tier 120 in tier two. So there's little debate where he's at in his career. And it's fun. Yeah. Mike, I'm wondering in the 10 years you've done this,

who's sort of been the most polarizing quarterback? Guys that were listed in tier five and tier one in the same year. So like, well, this year, Deshan Watson got votes in four different tiers because what the heck is he? He looked like he was terrible last year. Before that, he was great.

He's somewhere in between. I think the hardest guys though to understand and the ones that we really struggle and debate the most are are the guys who can carry their teams, but they kind of do it more as a runner than a passer. And there's some passing deficiencies that maybe cap how far they're going to go in the playoffs and really stop them a lot of times from getting into tier one. So I think over the years, Cam Newton's a great example. Like Cam Newton was their whole offense. How do you not put Cam Newton into tier one?

But as we saw many times throughout his career, you can take away the run part. There's going to be situations in games where running is just not even something you can do. And how well are you going to be able to throw your team to success? Lamar Jackson, another one in recent years, who climbed right up to the verge of tier one, and now they're going to change that offense and Baltimore, given some weapons. Hopefully he flourishes more as a pastor, and then he'll be in there. But we always come into that type of a debate for the sort of dual threat guy who isn't the best pastor, but really does carry his team.

I don't want to be little what it is that you do. And in any way make you feel like it's less than madden ratings, but have any players come up to you and complained about where they are ranked the way that some players will complain about their mat and rankings? No, but I don't think complained, but I've discussed it with some of them. You know, a couple of times, I was really a highlight was I a few years ago, Philip Rivers, who I mean, I've met Philip Rivers twice. I don't even really know him, but he was doing some sort of interview with the beat reporters down there. And he made some kind of a reference to San Jose tears like I better watch out.

I'm going to be slipping in San Jose tears. That was actually kind of a highlight for me to have him have him have an awareness of it. It was great. My kids, you know, my kids, I showed it to my kids. I was, you know, we got a kick out of it, you know, because they're always like, dad, do these players even do the people in the league even know really who you are?

You know, they have no idea like how all this stuff works. So when Rivers mentioned the tears, I was like, I've got that clip somewhere. It was like awesome. You know, he's like, he's a good dude, you know, but it was pretty, it was pretty funny. And then maybe next year is a little higher. Your kids never thought you were cooler

than when Rivers mentioned the tears. Oh, yeah. The kids are like, dad, would they know your name? Like they, they, you know, they don't know how, how it all works. So it was really fun when rivers did it. The rivers had an awareness of it. And it was kind of having fun with it, you know, that was, that was pretty cool. But I think what Billy was trying to ask there was, did that move up Philip

Rivers, the fact that you acknowledge your tears? Did you then next year take care of Philip Rivers could you be the question? Yeah, exactly. No, cannot be about. Yeah. But I sweat. Yeah. Well, I mean, everyone has their price right? I'd say five million bucks, you know, we can get you up. No, no, the funny thing is though, like, I do sweat a little bit the votes because, you know, even though it's not me, like if someone has a complete outlier thing, like last year one voter put homes in Tier 2, and that's like all people wanted to talk about, I'm like, it's one guy. I mean, you're gonna talk to 50 people, you're gonna get someone who's off for a little, you know, you wouldn't agree with them. But this year, Pat Mahomes was 50 out of 50 in Tier 1. So that was wonderful. And then I kind of liked that Burrow got one Tier 2 vote, even though I think he's clearly a Tier 1 quarterback,

because Mahomes should be like the number one guy, right? It should be Mahomes within Tier 1. There's Mahomes, and then there's other guys who, if they were just a little bit better, could be my homes too. Did that voter get asked back after he put my homes in tier two next year? Like, do you like, hey, he's back, you're out next year. I brought him back, I brought him back,

and I was a little nervous. Guy likes to stay in the pot, I like it. But it's like, hey, you have to be able to explain yourself. Like, I'll give you an example. Kind of a Murray got one tier one vote. You know, I'm like, really? Kyler Murray, but the guy had an interesting explanation. And I liked that.

I used it in there. He said, look, this team, when he was healthy, this team in Arizona was in the playoffs for one reason. You can't name another reason they were in there. Wasn't their coaching staff? Wasn't their defense? It wasn't their run games, because this guy made plays all over the field to win the games like all right you're the only guy but I appreciate your perspective really he should be a two or a three but your point

is not invalid the his justification for it he just had an outlier vote and that's the way it goes do you give your voters any parameters that they have to follow? Like there need to be X number of tier one, tier two, tier three, tier four guys? Or it's just like they'll send you their list in whatever tiers they've decided. Yeah, I give them the definition for the tiers. And so guys will sometimes say, you know, they'll try to beat for the to the letter of that.

They might say, you know what, this guy would be a one, but the definition of the tiers, requiring that peer pass component, I'm going to give him a two. And so like, I'm just looking at the ballots here. I think the fewest number of tier ones on any ballot was two. A couple guys only had two. Like one guy had only my homes in burrow. The guy who didn't do burrow, I think, had my homes and Josh Allen. So you might have anywhere from two to maybe six or seven. Somebody might have six, seven tier oneers. Oh, here's one, one, two, three, four, five, say a seven. I would say seven is probably the most this year that

that anybody did. How many tier one votes did Lamar Jackson get? I'm shocked that Lamar Jackson is not a Tier 1 quarterback. Yeah, so Lamar Jackson got eight in Tier 1 this year. And he really kept his value. Like I thought last year wasn't a great year for him. I mean, if you wanted to dock Jackson, it could have happened that for last year.

He stayed really stable. And I think this year's going to be really big for him because they're going to give him more of a chance to throw the ball. And if he does really well at that, I think he's going to write in the tier one. And how about Jalen Hertz? It was just one year. Is that why he's not a tier one guy? Yeah, he's right on the cusp of it. Yes, he's top of tier two. But why not like that guy? No one did more for his team than Jalen Hertz did for the Eagles last year. Yeah. So like when Jalen Hertz first came into this thing and he'd hardly played, I think he was 30th overall and then he played pretty well. He went to 20th and this year a huge jump to six

where he got 10 tier one votes. Definitely there is a we want to see it again that happened to Josh Allen a couple of years ago. Like he went right to the top of tier two and then he backed it up. He was there. I think when you look at the Eagles though, you would say sometimes the situations these guys are in can really help or hurt them. When you probably have the best offensive line, maybe the best wide receivers, great job scheming all those guys on the coaching staff, got head coaching jobs. You're at top 10 defense.

You're not really putting it on the quarterback shoulders in the fourth quarter, two minutes situations to win it. Maybe a little more exposure to that, I think just shifts him right in. I think this is a snapshot in time of his rise. And it'll probably happen next year if he has another good year. I have not discussed this with Billy, but I know he's upset that Tuah is a tier three quarterback. Oh, yeah. The very least he should be tiered to a tier. Yeah, yeah. So, bad joke. You can make a case though. You could definitely make a case. I mean, certainly part of this is being able to be on the field too. So I think that I think his durability probably costs him half a tier or just be my guess quarter

of a tier or something like that because that's a part of the job. And I think the guys who have the best feel for the position and know how to play the position are out there every week. And he had good questions. He can't control that. You can control it by not getting slammed down to the ground and having a great feel for the game. I mean, I don't know how many times. Righty did. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I mean, there's a bunch of quarterbacks like Phillip

Rivers who can't move better than you and me, who the pockets for them, they stand in there all day and they get rid of it and they hold up. So yeah, he's had bad luck. There's no doubt with the injuries, but also when we get into the division of credit thing in the extreme circumstances, I've mentioned before, like, Jared Goff goes from Jeff Fisher to Sean McVey and we're like, okay, how much credit does Goff get? And I think in Toa's case, he comes in in a terrible situation. They didn't even want to play him.

They got Chan Galey with a plan for Ryan Fitzpatrick. I mean, if you wanted the ruin toa a they've had the plan to do it. Well, then almost overnight, it's a great scheme. And now you've got two of the best wide receivers in the league. I think what people see, they give to a full credit for the fact that when the play, when everything's on time, he throws his accurately, is anybody in the league. He finds the right guy throws throws it to him accurately, and accuracy is a huge part of playing the position.

People also feel that when that was disrupted, and as that is likely to be more disrupted as people kind of catch up to what they're doing, when you do throw him off, the timing things fall apart to a degree that they should not. So he needs to stand the field and be that effective over the course of a whole season. And there's no doubt he's moving up because he's already what he's kind of upper middle tier three right now. Yeah.

You know, I think that I think he'll definitely move up. You round down around 25 votes for tier one one 25 for tier two, which ones again? Yeah, I to me, that was Kirk cousins. And so I if you're a 2.50, I put you I round up into the into the one, but like a really hard one this year was like that was easy for cousins 25 and 2 and 25 and 3. You're a 2.5. I'm going to put you into Brock Purdy was a 3.5, but winning the top of tier four, my justification for that was the distribution of the votes was one vote in tier two, 23 in tier three,

and then 26 a majority in tier four. So I was like, all right, I'll put them at the top of tier four with the 26 votes in there. I've gotten a lot of kind of pushback on that. I mean, probably would have been easier to live less explanation for me if I made in the last guy in tier three, but I think it's kind of a difference or distinction without a difference or whatever you're whatever the saying is. I mean, he's right there, you know. I think the one that makes everyone scratch their head. I realized the physical tools. I realized the talent. He's got great flowing hair.

He looks like he's an NFL quarterback. He looks like he's the greatest NFL quarterback of all time is Justin Herbert, though. He is not accomplished enough. Has anyone want to play off game? And yet he is sitting there in tier one. So there's no doubt that he benefits from the eye test, right? Anyone and some of the voters

say this, like when they see him play, they're impressed. I mean, he really is impressive. Now, if I were to create a defense of him as a Tier 1 quarterback, and he he slipped within Tier 1, but he held on. If you look at the last two years, the chargers are ranked 28th in EPA on defense and special teams and they have a 19 and 15 record. The four teams that rank below them are 51, 84 and 1 and when you look at the chargers you know it's not their defense that's carrying them. We know it's not the great scheming they just fired their coordinator. We know it's not their amazing running game. Why are they 19 and 15 when all of the other teams through that bad on even special teams suck?

And you'd say it's probably because of Justin Herbert in some skill at the receiver position. All right, Mike, we appreciate it. Senior NFL writer for the athletic tier talk, a listen, it's an article I've been waiting for my entire life. I had no idea you did nine more of these before this one. I wish I had known earlier. Hey, we're glad, you know, we're reaching them one at a time.

So we'll be back next year to do it. All right, we appreciate your time, sir. Thank you for helping us get through August. Hey, thank you. Appreciate it, man. We'll see you. Okay. I'm tired of talking about the running back position, but the running back position is still

in the news because I am told by Billy Gill and Mikey A during the break that Joe Mixon. Joe Mixon is ruining it for all the other running backs. What is going on with Nixon, Billy? Well, he's not ruining it. He restructured his deal and he said that he was doing so because he has an opportunity to win a Super Bowl. So he has now saved the Bengals $4.3 million against the cap this year and restructuring his deal with a nearly $3 million decrease in cash value. Now, here's where things get dicey, right? Because this is going counter to what every

other running back is trying to get done at this moment, right? But how pissed is that clear? There's no way that the running backs can be happy when this news comes out of the Joe mix and is taking a pay cut, right? Right. Joe, if you haven't read the news, haven't been listening, hey, we're trying to get us more money. Not last. What are you doing? I get it though. I mean, suppose the bangles came to Joe Mixon and they're like, listen, either you've got to take a pay cut or we're going to cut you.

And then Joe Mixon looks at all the other running backs that are still free agents. And he's like, you know what? I think I would rather just stay here where I'm comfortable. It does make sense though, because like you look at the people that are out there like Daven cook seems to be just visiting teams to try to get the dolphins to sign him, which is the craziest thing. He went on a media blitz in New York talking about how, oh yeah, no, I love the jets, but he left without signing a deal.

So if you really loved it and they wanted you, you would have signed the deal, but he's really just trying to go, Hey, dolphins, I will sign with the jets. I'll do it. They were that day they were taking pictures of him walking through the facility like you, I they may have handed him a playbook like it seemed like he was trying to make it seem like he was on the jets. And then didn't sign with the jets.

That's because he wants to be a dolphin. Billy, the crab was chanting sign the contract when Dalvin Cook was hanging around a trading camp and he didn't sign the contract. Why? Because he wants to be a dolphin and he's using the jets as leverage to get himself to Miami. And I'm blame him by the way,

but the dolphins also know they don't pay him that much. It's crazy. They're in a tough spot, man. How do you feel if your Aaron Rogers who then takes like a 30 million or 35 million dollar salary reduction? I think is what he took Thinking that they can get players like Dalvin cook and then you don't and you just gave away 35 million dollars I think it depends on what else they do. I mean Dalvin cook is a big swing in this But is that gonna be the only guy they bring in? I think Aaron Rogers more wants it for wide receivers.

He knows once Breeze tall is healthy, they'll be fine with the running back position. He also knows the running back position is pretty interchangeable, which is why they can't get more money. And so they'll figure it out. But I think what Rogers wants, the lineman and wide receivers, eventually with the money that he gave up, he's fine with the billiard, Rogers knows what he's doing, listen,

this is the most exciting season, like yeah, and I have ever, like the pre-season is important of it. And we've had exciting pre-season before, but I happen to think this jet team and a tire of here, jet fans saying, the worst is gonna happen. I think this jet team at the very least,

they are this talented, is going to make it to the AFC championship game I really truly believe that I do believe that so I think Aaron's fine like he gave up a certain amount of money And he trust the jets will use it wisely either this year or next year to get a more wide receivers and more offensive lineman Tier one quarterback. Yeah, I have a Tier one quarterback. I've never had a tier one quarterback. I mean, most of my quarterbacks caused tier. So I've never had a tier one quarterback. And Billy has a tier three, and he is pissed off about it. I mean, that's sand.

He weren't hard enough of sand though. I gotta be honest with you. I mean, speaking of running backs, Jonathan Taylor, what is going on there? Because that is a crazy situation in the universe is crazy can i tell you something that came out late this week that may uh... make you guys laugh about this johnathan taylor situation sure so johnathan taylor now wants a contract extension and he wants somewhere reportedly

in the neighborhood of sixteen million dollars annually, which is up from, I believe, the 4.3 that he is going to be making. But it's also on par with what I think Christian McCaffrey is making, and he's every bit as good as McCaffrey, at least he thinks he is. He had a bit of a down year last year, but yes, he has been a very productive running back, and he wants to get a contract extension, and he wants to get paid substantially more than what he's getting paid now, $16 million. Jim Urce then invited him onto his private bus and then they had a whole conversation and there was like weird texts that went out there basically saying no one's going to

miss you if you're gone or something along those lines, right? Now here's the fun fact that has been reported today in an unrelated story involving chimersy again Jonathan Taylor would like to make sixteen million dollars annually to be running back for Jim or say is Indianapolis Colts and he does not want to pay him that and then they want to put him on a list that he can go on for being injured outside of football activities where they may pay him zero dollars for this year should they choose because that's the way those rules work if you get to put on that list they can pay him whatever they want and they might want to pay him zero dollars now again sixteen million dollars is what he wants to mercy

doesn't want to pay him that gym ursae is leading the movement to move Lolita the killer whale out of the Miami-C aquarium and to free Lolita somewhere near Seattle and the cost of moving and freeing Lolita is $20 million. So the owner of the Colts will maybe get his money, he gets to spend it how he wants to Billy. That is basically what he said when ask about doing it he's like well i have the money so why not do it uh... so he may be spending twenty million dollars to move a whale and free a whale but does not want to give

Jonathan Taylor that money to run for his team and lollita catch out of the backfields that's my question uh... he's doing that just a pitch on the dollar off is he not well there are related backfields. That's my question. He's doing that just to piss John of the dailer off. Is he not? Well, they're unrelated things. They're just both kind of happening at the same time, which is a little really. It makes people wonder. I mean, just hold up your middle finger.

You don't need to move a whale. It's taking a heart. A little bit too far. That's he's like a hard thing, right?'t need to move a whale. It's taking a heart. It's a little bit too far. That seems like a hard thing. Right. Moving a whale across the country, like, like in the, like, like, $20 million dollars.

I mean, it's, it's, it's basically as far as they can go, like, Miami to see that. That's a long flight. Like, I don't want to be on that flight. And I'm not a whale. It seems like it'd be uncomfortable. It seems like that whale would be like the third highest paid player on the cult. I mean, it's unbelievable, man.

So, how do you feel about a private bus, by the way? It seems like a weird thing to have. Jim Urse has a private bus. Did you say that before? Yeah, I think it's like an RV or something. It's like wrapped in like a cool... Honestly, it seems like if you put the logo on it and you say this is like for company reasons, I'm assuming there's some sort of financial benefit

to that than just saying I want an RV to drive around, you know, the country or meet in or whatever, you know. Right. I don't know what the running backs do because every time one of these guys go down, they get replaced by someone and that someone has pretty much the same production. So I'm not certain what the solution is for the running back position. And Joe Mixing taking less money is certainly

not helping. And Jim Urcei spending his money on moving a whale rather than maybe the best running back Lee NFL certainly does not help matters. Well, the cults backup running back, I believe broke his arm. And then I think I saw that the person with the third leading and I could be getting this wrong And I don't remember the source. So I'm sorry the third leading Russia in terms of yards on the Colts roster at this moment I believe was Gardner Minshue So that's not the best situation headed into the season who's also a tier four quarterback. Did you see that? Oh really? There he is.

Remember that time, Minchumania? I remember seeing a radio row and seeing, oh, Stugots, you were there. It was in Miami when Minchumania was going on. And I think that he was there with Snickers and he was going to go on Goliath and Wayne Goh and he had this giant bedazzled Snickers chain that was like fake diamond and crusted to promote Snickers and we were getting ready to go on the air and this is so bad, I probably

shouldn't be saying this. We were getting ready to go on the air and we were like in this secondary, like broadcast station where we could like record podcasts or whatever and Gardener Minceu was there and we broke like all protocol where you like you go through the handlers and all this stuff because they're going on a media tour and they have a tight schedule but he was kind of just hanging out standing next to us so we asked Gardener directly

because he was literally just standing waiting next was hey You want to sit down with us for like five minutes while you wait just do quick hit with us and then he like turned and Said oh, I can the Snickers people were like oh no, I can't do her whatever and So got tonight. I don't remember which one of us said it Turned to the other one and said no one's gonna want to talk to him next year should have taken the interview Which was not a nice thing to say, but, you know, I think you said it to me just. We didn't, at the time though, in fairness, we didn't think he'd be the leading rusher

for the Indianapolis Colts. So it's a great point. We have played that wrong. Damn it. Billy, on those, on the tier threes and tier fours, I'll ask both of you, uh, because I am so happy that Mike's saying they'll put the together and I had no idea he's done nine before this one. Okay. But of the tier threes, tier fours, who do you think will be a tier one next year? Like we'll make that big leap because I have my guy. I have a guy

that I have my eye on. I feel like people will just say Trevor Lawrence, right? Well, Trevor Lawrence is tier two. I'm talking about making the big lead from tier three to your four all the way up to, to tier one because I think that guy, at least for me, I think that guy is Justin Fields. Like I feel, Justin Fields is going to have a monster season. I think the Bears are Justin Fields. Like I feel, Justin Fields is gonna have a monster season. I think the Bears are gonna be very good. And I think Justin Fields actually will be a tier one quarter

back according to the Mike Sandel. Hmm. Hmm, you guys don't like him? I think it'll be in the Lamar Jackson sort of category where it's, they'll be like, oh, he's really good. He can carry a team, but can he do it with just his arm? Brock Perney's in tier four right now. Like, what could he accomplish with the 49ers, you know? Well if he has a good year, he'll move up. I mean nice what I'm saying just because of the team that he's on he may move up

I don't think it's gonna be Desmond Ritter. I'll tell you that Derrick car Wow Really why if I like Derrick car Maybe great. This would be so jats if Jordan loved next year is in tier one and Roger's is in tier four That would be great. I just blasted jet fans for the You just did it like worse than all of them Jordan love it's gonna happen though You can have it though.