The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - GOOD FOLLOW - Napheesa and Cathy are Playing Chess, Aces Lead 2-0 In WNBA Finals & More!

Episode Date: October 7, 2025

Today on Good Follow: Ros Gold-Onwude gives Angel McCoughtry her flowers for being the only player to average at least 30 points per game in a Finals series and her Legend status. Then, they break down what is going right for the Las Vegas Aces and what could be going better for the Phoenix Mercury. How is the Aces' bench outplaying the Mercury’s bench? Does championship experience impact the game? Next, Ros gives her DraftKings pick of the week. Lastly, they get to the bottom of the Cathy Engelbert, Napheesa Collier, and the CBA situation as of today. Can WNBA leadership rebuild trust with the players? Ros and Angel break down Cathy Engelbert’s press conference. What does Adam Silver think of all of this? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When you're with Amex Platinum, you get access to exclusive dining experiences and an annual travel credit. So the best tapas in town might be in a new town altogether. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Terms and conditions apply. Learn more at Amex.ca. where's your playlist taking you down the highway to the mountains or just into daydream mode while you're stuck in traffic with over 4,000 hotels worldwide best western is there to help you make the

most of your getaway wherever that is because the only thing better than a great playlist is a great trip life's the trip make the most of it at best western and save at bestwestern.com. You're listening to DraftKings Network. Hey, what's up, everybody. Hey, what's up, everybody? Welcome to Good Follow show, presented by DraftShow. Kings. I am Roz's Golden Buquer. And that is five-time WNBA All-Star Angel

McAjury. Angel, what's up, girl? What's up, girl? I'm here in New York, promoting my new film bygones. Yeah, you got a premiere tonight, right? Got a premiere tonight. It drops October 10th, so you guys can watch on Amazon Prime, Hugh TV Network, Apple, all the things. So I hope you guys like it. Oh my gosh. Angel, you are doing a bit of everything. You are a true renaissance woman.

You got movies. You got buckets. You know, it's the WNBA finals right now. And we've seen some very explosive performances in these WNBA finals. People getting big buckets, putting up big numbers, scoring performances. But before we start our show, I do want to point out, Angel, nobody has scored the ball in the WNBA finals like you have. Okay.

Oh, my gosh. Angel, you have scored the most. points in WNBA Finals history with 38 points. And your name kept coming up in the broadcast of game two because Asia was, Asia was going off for 20 at the half. Then there was 21 points in a quarter for Jackie Young. And it was like, can she break Angel McCartrey's record? Angel, I mean, just what was it like for you to just kind of be reminded of the buckets

that you used to get near 40 piece in the WMBA finals? Yeah, it's a great reminder of the work you put in because, like you said, I forgot about all this stuff. Just like fans are like, oh, we forgot. I forgot too. So I'm like, I did that. It's a beautiful shock. And so it's good to see that these young girls are breaking those records, but it's so much fun to see your name involved in that.

And, you know, I did something right. So you absolutely did. And, you know, I know there's a lot of new fandom, new people to basketball. If they don't know Angel McCartrey, they better. And it's a good reminder because you're really a legend of the game. future Hall of Famer. So it was, it was cool. And you're our girl. We're so proud of you, a good follow show. Our girl, Angel McCutry, WMBA legend. But look, we got a lot to talk about today in the show. Here's the menu. Gosh, the WNBA never fails to entertain. The Kathy,

there's new information about the Kathy Engelbert and Nafisa Collier situation. Kathy and Fee and the CPA. Oh my. And then the W.N. WNBA Finals, head to Phoenix as the Mercury try to bounce back against the Aces. So we'll be looking at the WNBA Finals. And you guys can catch us Tuesdays and Thursdays. Please like, comment and subscribe. Thank you for all you do and following our show. Roz, let's get in it.

This is exciting. Okay, guys, we are going to get to all of the new information out around Nefisa Collier, Kathy Engelbert, and the CBA. But first, we've got to talk about the WNBA finals. That is taking center stage and certainly on our show. So the Aces right now at the time of taping are up to an O after winning both of their games at home. It was the Aces Bench and the Aces Big Three that are completely outplaying the Mercury's Bench and the Mercury's Big Three. And it's also clear that the Aces Championship experience is paying off.

So, Angel, if I could scene set for you, game one, the Mercury led by as much as nine points. They had some costly mistakes, emotional moments, bad texts. They gave up 20 points on 14 turnovers. And that was the game that they really could have stolen. It cost them the chance to do that. Game two, they, you know, trailed by as much as 22, the aces were dominant. So, okay, the series is heading to Phoenix. They're down 02.

If you are in that Phoenix locker room with you having been a player angel, how do they reframe this right now? You said it, Bass Ross. It's an emotional weight that's on them. My message is to AT, Alyssa Thomas. You are letting game one affect game. two and affect game three you are the emotional weight of the team they follow you right those free throws got to you you got to let it go this game here at home you got to win one game at a time

do what you got to do meditate pray read the bible i don't care let go of game one so you can will your team to victory one game at a time that is what's affecting the phoenix mercury it's emotional We know what to do. We know the game plan. We know how we got to play. We know we can beat them. But if you continue this emotional weight on you, you're not going to beat the ACEs. Let it go.

Fresh new game. To me, AT is 0-0. Let's go. If you refresh and resets, they're going to win the next game. That's it. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I think control of their emotions, of the physicality, of the toughness factor.

for the Phoenix Mercury, they don't have a lot of control of it. They've seemed out of control in spurts and they've been costly spurts for them. And I think, you know, for me, I'm looking at it like, look, this is not a time for the Aces to have a victory lap yet. All the Aces did is do what they were supposed to do.

They won at home. You know, they won at home. Now they got there to. Now you go home to Phoenix and you got a chance to win at home. You tie this series up. The narrative is different. the way this whole series feels is different.

And you should take some confidence in the fact that you could have stolen game one. You know, so I think for the Phoenix Mercury, it's an overall gut check for this team. Their bench is typically the best bench in the WNBA in the regular season. They're getting thoroughly outplayed by Jewel Lloyd and Dana Evans. You know, the big three for the Aces, whether it's Jackie Young with 21 points in that third quarter or 32 in a game, more. It's a double double from Asia Wilson, 20 at half. And for me, it's been Chelsea Gray, who I think they really got to find a way to limit her control of the game, not only physically, but emotionally. She's so emotionally charged. And it's on offense and defense. You know,

she's averaging a near triple double. She's averaging 10 assists a game. When the Aces are truly cooking over the course of years now, Chelsea Gray is stirring that pot. Okay. And she's getting steals and blocks and assists and she's hitting big buckets and just screaming and pouring out emotion. So I think it's going to be key to lower her impact. And I also want to just tap it on what you said about Alyssa Thomas as well in that, you know, I think she's she's struggled so far in the matchup against Asia Wilson. Asia Wilson size has been a big factor against her. And overall, it's been hard for her to defend Asia. Asa, she's scoring. right over her and offensively she's taking less shots she's got less you know assist she seems

less aggressive on the court and for the mercury when they're cooking it's elissa thomas with her fingerprints all over the game so to your point angel i think it starts with her um and satu sabli has to lock in that emotional control she's made some mistakes she's not shooting well and i think with the bench battle they need more from de wana bonner and sammy whitcomb if she's healthy angel Absolutely. You guys, focus, get your emotional maturity together. Stop worrying about the vacation next week. You have plenty of time to go to Mexico. Focus and get the when. Get a win. Then we'll go from there. All right. Jesus.

I feel you, Angel. And that will actually take us to game three, which is our Draft King's Pick of the Week, presented by Draft Kings. This week, I have my eye on game three of the WNBA finals with the Mercury's X factor being their home crowd, I'm picking them to win this critical game three. In fact, for the Mercury, I'm saying game three is a must win. My players to watch are DeWana Bonner and Dana Evans as the production or lack of production from the bench has been a huge factor in this series. This segment is presented by Draft Kings. Draft Kings, the crown is yours. All right, guys, coming up, there's new information out about the public drama between the WNBA players, the leadership, Kathy Fee, and the CBA.

Oh, my. We'll get to it. We'll be right back. Hey, NFL fans, what's your favorite touchdown? Because for me, it's the next one. With Draft King Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NFL, every TD puts cash in your hands. First score, anytime CDs, live bets. Every snap is an opportunity. Your team hitting pay dirt pays out to you.

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Four additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see DKNG.com slash audio. Hey, what's up, y'all? Welcome back to Good Follow, presented by Draft Kings. She's Angel. I'm Roz, and guess what? There's new information that has come out about this increasingly turbulent relationship between Nefisa Collier and WNBA Commissioner Kathy Engelbert.

In a new ESPN article by Ramona Shelburne and Kendra Andrews, it's a very interesting read. They do have some new, interesting details. One part of the article that was interesting, so according to ESPN, players have been asking for data from the WNBA and its leadership, and they haven't been given it. So it says, according to sources on both sides of the CBA negotiations, under the current CBA, players don't get additional revenue sharing. So it's 9% for the WNBA players as opposed to about 49 to 51% in the NBA. And they don't get that additional revenue sharing until the league has generated a certain level of revenue, which it has said it has yet to do after decades of

multi-million dollar losses at the franchise and league level. So naturally, the players want the league to give them the data that proves that that is the case. And those requests have not been met, Angel. So Angel, you're a player. You've been a player for a long time in the WNBA. How does this lack of transparency from the WNBA, as reported in the ESPN article, add to distrust? It continues to add to what Nefisa Collier is, talking about. What is so hard to release the data, right? Because people are starting to calculate

things. These girls are not dumb athletes. They know how to do math. Some stuff just don't add up. Whether it adds up or not, these are issues that can be fixed. Give her girls revenue off their jersey sales or, you know, stop finding girls for a plan overseas. It's things that can be fixed to show that you care about these women in their livelihoods. Because once again, Who has the largest contract in the WBA? Kathy, you have the largest, you make the most in the WBA. So as a woman, Kathy, I know you said you're human. So I want you to come to this human side as a woman.

How can you continue to fight for these women? If we can't put all the pressure on you, maybe you're not making all the decisions. But are you in those boardrooms fighting for what we need? That's what we need to know, too. Yeah, Angel, to your point, I think what players are seeing is that, that team valuations are going up, you know, ratings are, brand deals are up, money is being poured into the league, but they're waiting for it to be trickled down to them. And from what we've gathered is look, the league and is willing to say, yes, we will raise your salaries, but

they're not willing to give a bigger slice of the business. And so remember, these players are in a labor dispute, not only trying to make a difference for their salaries and well, being, but they're literally kind of laying the pathwork for future generations of WNBA players. So there's a lot at stake right now. And with so much at stake, I do want to take us back to revisiting Kathy Engelbert's press conference at the start of the WNBA finals. This was huge. We haven't had the chance to really address it on our show yet. Key takeaways for me of Kathy Engelbert's comments. So I thought she was strong on officiating. She seemed to understand that there was a need for addressing the issues with officiating. She described a plan. She mentioned

committees. It feels like there will be work done by the WNBA to make officiating better in the league. I also thought as a talking point, it was important for Kathy. She was trying to convey a relationship with the players that could be repaired. She said, I feel confident we can repair any loss of trust. So she was trying to convey that. And then two standout moments that obviously they've gone viral a little bit out of it, is the way that she handled direct questioning about the comments Nefisa Collier made describing their personal conversation. There were two moments. The first one right off the bat was with Malika Andrew.

She asked her, is it true that you said players should be on their hands and knees, thanking their lucky stars for the right steal that I got them? And let's listen to how Kathy answered that question. There's a lot of inaccuracy out there through social media and all this reporting. Well, that's that's a non-answer, right? That's certainly not a denial. It kind of feels like a little bit of, did she say yes or no? Did she outright deny anything, Angel?

That's what we want to know. When you're asked the question, people want to want the answer, yes, I said it or no, I didn't say it. And Fee is not the kind of person that makes stuff up. Where there is smoke, there is fire. Oh, that's good. So something along, yeah, so something along those lines were said. So what are the inaccuracies and what is accurate? Then describe that to us.

Right. And let me take you to the next question. Much later in the media session. So minutes passed. And at the towards the end, Annie Costable doubled back and asked Kathy, did you say, Caitlin should be grateful she makes $16 million off the court without the W platform. She would not make that. Let's listen to how Kathy answered that.

Obviously, I did not make those comments. Caitlin has been a transformational player in this league. That's a very different answer, my friend. That's a very different strategy. Now that was a denial. One thing about Kathy, she was not trying to allow anybody

to say she said that about Caitlin. That was a big Caitlin business that she was not trying to alienate her fan base, upset Caitlin, one of their most valuable assets of the WNBA. She came out and said, not only did she say, I did not say that. She said, obviously,

I did not say that. Very different language. What do you make of that? Well, one thing you don't want to do is upset the Caitlin fan base. The Caitlin fan base is basically on the same level as the beehive, Beyonce's fan base. They don't play. And they will come after you. So honestly, she could have said something in that way.

But, hey, maybe I didn't say it the way in the piece of Reddit. So, no, I didn't say that. You know what I mean? but it's it's this is I don't even know what to say about that like yeah yeah it's well in her answers ultimately and especially in the answer about Caitlin Clark what she did there was she now made somebody a liar with that answer somebody is not telling the truth and so you know Nefisa Collier's listening to this press conference and probably sitting there wondering is she going to do it is she going to is she going to deny it is she going to lie now

we don't again we were not privileged. to the conversation. We said in our last show, Kathy has the opportunity to respond and negate what was said in a private conversation. So now it's up to public opinion to decide who's telling the truth. All right. So that brings me to the next point, y'all. Folks, we are watching a game of chess being played right before our eyes. And it's who's going to get checkmate first. So Nefisa Collier, she's using a lot of strategy successfully in many ways. And this is often the case. There's nothing negative about being strategic in a labor dispute. But just to point out a couple of the chest moves, Fee had this conversation with Kathy Engelbert in February. She has sat

on this conversation and very damning information since February, understanding what the right time would be to drop this bomb. And, you know, really couldn't have been better timing with Kathy having addressed press and the magnifying glass of the finals. I mean, she strategically delivered that information. Then I want to point out another chess move by Fee. So Kathy denied saying the things that Fee said she said. And Fee responded by canceling the meeting so that Kathy said they were going to have. Now, I think on one hand, she canceled the meeting because Kathy made a liar out of her. So Kathy said, I didn't say that. So she probably felt insulted, you know, that Kathy is saying something Fee said is not true or, you know, false.

But I also think there's a bigger chess move there in that, remember in that press conference, Kathy was trying to convey to her audience and the public that she still had the ear of the room, that she still had a conversation coming up with Nefisa Collier. Don't worry, things are okay. We can repair the trust. I'm talking to Nefisa Collier later this week. And she really tried to hammer that home as something to show, trust me, I'm still have control of this, and Fee negated everything, the whole power of that point by canceling that

meeting. Boy, when I saw the report that Fee has canceled the meeting, I said, whoo-hoo, what a move. I was like, brilliant. Whatever Kathy was selling, she said, not happening. It was brilliant. I think she canceled the meeting because she wasn't happy with the press conference. I think there was something said or something not said something not admitted to that she was like you know what this meeting is getting canceled

and I'm going to prove my point to you that we're not playing we're making the point and we want some change change happens today with Nefisa Calli and we're all backing her you know what I mean? Because I was even told Ross with certain comments that I wanted to make for the league wait till you retire right to you retire

don't say it yet right so we all but fee she just took us there. She took us there. So yeah. This is a lot of people called fees comments brave for those reasons. You know, for many years, WMBA players were

really, you know, worried about salaries. There were no other ways to make a lot of money. There were no, you know, alternative leagues. And players were told in many different ways to kind of be quiet or hide or you know, this and that. And Fee spoke up. And she got the immediate support of a lot

of players, mind you. Just unified front saying they supported her. And one that was important was the support of Caitlin Clark. So Caitlin, you know, waited until fever exit interviews to discuss the Fee situation. She was criticized for not immediately saying something in support of Fee, as many other players did. But she did come to the exit interview prepared and said Fee said it all. She had valid points.

She also mentioned that Fee never told her about Kathy's comments about her. that was the first time she was hearing it too. And also going back to that ESPN article by Ramona Schellborn and Kendra Andrews that just dropped, they made it clear that he did not discuss her plans to drop this four minute league changing

bomb on Kathy Englebird and the WNBA. She never discussed it with the Players Association or anyone else. This was a woman acting alone. And she's strategically coming back to chess, there's nothing wrong with being strategic. She activated the passion around fan groups that support Caitlin, Angel, and Paige.

And it got a lot of uproar. And so it's interesting. This is not a direct response to fee, but it is interesting comments that Stephanie White, head coach of the fever made about Caitlin Clark being a pawn. And in a recent interview,

she said, Caitlin Clark is the pawn in other people's narratives as criticism of WNBA leadership intensifies. And so what I'll just say on that is, look, whether it has been, Caitlin's been a league two years and whether it's been politicians utilizing her to push political agendas, whether it's a contentious CBA where both sides are, you know, not trying to ostracist, um, alienate her fan base or evoke emotion and, and support from her fan base. I think Steph White is correct. And that's why, you know, on issues of business, I think it's okay that Caitlin takes her time for responses. There was a lot of pressure for her to immediately have a comment. comment, like, you know, right after feed made that statement, it was right before the fever we're about to play a game. There's a lot at stake when it comes to Caitlin and her business

affects the W's business. I think it's okay. She takes a moment, speaks to her team and comes out with, you know, the words she wants to say because there's a lot of power in them. And most recently, on Monday, Adam Silver himself has chimed in and addressed the situation directly saying Kathy Englebert has presided over historic growth in the league, but there's no question that there's issues that we need to address with our players, not just economic. There's relationship issues as well. I'm confident we can fix those over time,

and this league can continue to be on the rocket trajectory that it's on right now. That is Adam Silver. Angel, what do you make of that? I like him chiming in. I would love for Adam, since we're a brother-sister league, to go to some of the CBA negotiations, sit in the room, hear what the woman have to say, here's some of their concerns,

and let's go from there. Let's build something. Yeah. Here, I'm here to tell you that NBA leadership is very much abreast on what's happening in these CBA negotiations. In fact,

I actually think there's a situation where in some ways, Kathy Engelbert is more of like a figurehead who's getting scapegoated in some ways or being piled on in some ways. And while she's certainly flawed and has made some mistakes here, it's it's not she's not the only decision maker who is denying some of the requests of these players

look kathy as as adam silver has pointed out has had success as a commissioner she's also had some flaws she's business success but struggled to connect with the players and and show the right empathy at times and but i think in our society it's often easy to pile on on a woman and here is a figurehead who may not have, who likely doesn't have complete agency. She's definitely reporting into all the different ownership groups of the WNBA. That's the NBA. That's the team owners. There's a small investment group. It's even Nike. It actually might be easier for all of those parties I just mentioned to keep her as that forward facing kind of scapegoat. Let her take the blame and do the dirty work while behind the scenes. They're the ones that can escape criticism

and push for giving the women less. And, you know, I'm not even sure that making Kathy this central loan figure, like, that's a villain in this story, is actually benefiting the quest of the players because it might actually be creating this convenient veil of cover for, you know, true decision makers, actors behind the scenes to, you know, push their agendas and do what they want and deny these players of the actual slice of business that they're looking for. Angel, again, we're out of time. This show, we need more than 25 minutes. But you know where you can find us. Tuesdays and Thursdays. Make sure you tap in for Thursdays episode. We got a special interview coming up.

You won't want to miss it. But for Angel, I'm Roz. Thank you for watching Good Follow Show presented by Draft Kings. And watch Bygones. It's coming out, Wine, Angel. October 10th. All right. We'll catch you then.

Take care. We're going to be able to be. I don't know.