The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - Good Follow - Napheesa Collier’s Bombshell Exit Interview, Officiating In The W Raises Tension & More!

Episode Date: October 1, 2025

Today on Good Follow: Ros Gold-Onwude and Angel McCougtry react to Minnesota Lynx’s Napheesa Collier's critical exit interview. She reveals conversations with WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert involving Caitlin Clark, Angel Reese, and Paige Bueckers, as well as how officiating in the WNBA has gotten to this point. Then, Angel breaks down what this means as a former player and the impact this will have going into CBA negotiations and Unrivaled. Lastly, Ros gives us her DraftKings Pick of the Week. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Your business doesn't move in a straight line. Make sure your team is taken care of through every twist and turn with Canada Life savings, retirement, and benefits plans. Whether you want to grow your team, support your employees at every stage, or build a workplace people want to be a part of. Canada Life has flexible plans for companies of all sizes, so it's easy to find a solution that works for you. Visit CanadaLife.com slash employee benefits to learn more. Canada Life, insurance, investments, advice. During the Volvo Fall Experience event, discover exceptional offers and thoughtful design

that leaves plenty of room for autumn adventures. And see for yourself how Volvo's legendary safety brings peace of mind to every crisp morning commute. This September, lease a 2026 XE90 plug-in hybrid from $599 biweekly at 3.99% during the Volvo Fall Experience event. Condition supply, visit your local Volvo retailer or go to explorevolvo.com. You're listening to Draft King's Network.

Hey, what's up, everyone. Welcome to Good Follow, presented by Draft Kings. I'm Roz Gold on Wode, and I am here with five-time NBA All-Star, Angel McCartrey, Angel, what's good, girl? How you doing? What's up? Here in L.A. You know? Yep. Yep. I see you in the beautiful studios. In the studios. I heard you talking to the, what, Stanford girls? Your girls? Yes. So I am actually at a friend's crib right now. I am in the Bay Area. Nice. I am visiting with Stanford Women's Basketball, my alma mater. And tomorrow I'm going to speak with the team. And, you know, in this day and age, we're going to be talking about all sorts of

stuff, media training, brand building, storytelling, social media, all of that. So, you know, areas of expertise a little bit and talking with, you know, this year's Stanford squad as they head into year two in the ACC. I'm excited to get down to the farm. I love it. So we got to go to a game when Stanford plays Louisville. We got to have a little rivalry going. Oh, we have a whole wager on it. Let's go. Okay. Okay. I'm very excited to be in the Bay right now and see the team. But oh my God, girl, we have some breaking bombshell explosive news. Y'all, what's up? Gofalo fans and family.

We had a whole totally different show for you. And then Nefisa Collier took the stage for her exit interview. And everything got swiped off the desk. We had to just completely remake the show and give you our instant reactions to one of the biggest days in the history of the WNBA, in my opinion. So let's get to today's menu. for the show with the scene set being the WNBA finals are nearly here with such a big stage and bright lights. Nefisa Collier's bombshell exit interview takes center stage.

And so we'll be discussing her criticism of WNBA leadership and accountability. We will also discuss the officiating controversy in the WNBA that continues to escalate around referees and the calls. Big show, Angel. Big show. but thank you guys for supporting you can catch out the show Tuesdays and Thursdays like comment

and subscribe but let's get into it Roz I'm excited for this one let's get into it breaking news so Nefisa Collier she came in hot during her exit interviews today for the Minnesota Lanks

and she directly called out swiped at came right at the league and its leadership and directly at the commissioner Kathy Engelbert let's have a listen. We have the best players in the world. We have the best fans in the world.

But right now we have the worst leadership in the world. Woo. Like, first of all, I just, I, this is, this is crazy. Like, in the sense that I personally have never heard just a player being so just outright coming straight at the league and at the top, it's a major statement from a player of Nefisa Collier's stature, talent. level, respect level. Let's pull this up. Some instant responses at the time of taping, a couple of players have already chimed in, Deerica Hamby. Thank you for your bravery to Nefisa.

Isabel Harrison, standing with B, Angel Reese, 10 of 10, no notes. You know, these are some of the biggest and brightest stars faces of the leagues. These are some of the most, two of those are some of the most big-time veterans, respected players in this league, applauding Fee for what she did on the stage. Angel, you as a former WNBA player, what do you make of this? First of all, Fee has done something that a lot of players haven't done in the last decade, the last 20 years. We hear what we talk about in the locker room. We hear how players really feel, but our players really speaking out of it? No, because we're afraid for our jobs. That is our livelihood, and we don't get paid that much.

So fee has done something just, it's just a bombshells. First of all, if fee gets fine, I'm going to pay your fine back. I'm saying that myself. The conditions, raws of the WMBA have been so unappealing to the players for so long for the lack of officiating, the lack of salary, the lack of pension, health care, insurance. It's just like, where is it going? Where is the money going? That's the main question, too.

Here is a fact. the league signed a new media rights deal valued at 200 million a year so if you have 156 players in the league making between 15 to 20 million where is the rest of the money going do the math give us the receipts of when Kyrie donated to the league

where did that money go it's not going to the players and Kathy if you said that the fee they should be lucky or Caitlin should be lucky she's making $16 million off the court first of all, that's one player out of the rest of the 155. Like, what kind of leadership is that? Because it's right.

And I'm going to expose the main bombshell here that nobody is talking about. Everybody's salary is out. Adam Silver's salary is out. The NBA's the NBA salaries out. There's one person who salary is not out. Kathy Engleberg. Why can we not Google her salary? Why is it hidden?

At Deloitte. She made, what, three million? That's what we knew she made her? last job. So we know for a fact that at least she's making $3 million per year. Not why my dumb A players are making $60,000. So yeah, there's some things that needs to be exposed. I need receipts on where the money's going, because why is it not going to my girls? The level of passion you're expressing right now that honestly turns into frustration, rage, anger. Like, I see that escalating now with the players. You know, I'm seeing that in the way. I'm seeing that in the

way that they're starting to unite and discuss this league and where it's at right now. And it's gone. And, you know, when I think about what it takes to have a player take the stage with premeditated remarks, pre-written remarks, and, you know, swipe this strong at the league, there's a lot that goes into this. Let's continue to listen to Fee and what her conversation, what she said here about the league. The league has a buzzword that they've rolled out as talking points for the CBA as so why they can't pay the players what we're worth. That word is sustainability.

But what's truly unsustainable is keeping a good product on the floor while allowing officials to lose control of games. Fans see it every night. Coaches, both winning and losing, pointed out every night in pregame and post game media. Yet leadership just issues fines and looks the other way. They ignore the issues that everyone inside the game is begging to be fixed. That is negligence. For me, this isn't just something that comes from one moment in time.

It comes from many examples of fees word negligence, lack of respect, lack of communication, lack of transparency, and it escalates to this moment of explosiveness. And so for me, what I am observing at this time of receiving this breaking bombshell from fee, understanding that the scene set of this is there. there's a contentious CBA going on in the background. Understanding still, it's my job as a journalist to be objective. We have yet to hear back from the league and Kathy Engelbert at this time. I'm just responding to what we've heard only from Fee.

And some of those parts of her conversation are allegedly. Another consideration is Nefisa Collier's role as a co-founder of unrivaled and alternative women's basketball league, you know, and how that could influence her comments and perhaps any, conflicts of interest that come with her position there. You know, she, she did bring up things that are part of a conversation that we were not there for. So, you know, we still need to hear from Kathy in response to this. And Kathy will have that stage. If she doesn't do it immediately, the WNBA finals, the timing, couldn't come any faster because there is a commissioner session

where all the media speaks with the commissioner and gets to ask questions. And I'm sure this will be the main point of conversation. And she's, you know, Kathy's going to be held accountable by the media. But for me, what listening to Fees exit interview shows me that there's a pattern that has happened over the course of time that leads to this explosion and this explosive of an exit interview. And for me, I see even from my own observations of a body of work recently now from the WNBA, there's a pattern of unprotectedness. there's a pattern of contempt and a pattern of lack of transparency coming from the WNBA towards its players, towards its fans, towards its teams that is leading to this moment that is now explosive. So the unprotectedness, players are being unprotected in that they are literally

getting hurt. There are literally players crying for some consistency. you know, calling out for issues with refereeing. And now they're having season-ending injuries. Like they cannot even perform the craft that they've devoted their life to. And they are unprotected if no one is willing to listen to the need for better officiating. Pattern of unprotectiveness. And I'm talking about not this season, but also looking at last season. The league took far too long to address hateful behaviors.

hateful speech, toxic environments for, for players and creating a safer environment from them after the players complained over and over again last season. It took far too long for them to publicly denounce that. Unprotectedness. There's a pattern. Protectedness. Another pattern that I'm seeing. Contempt. A pattern of contempt. The alleged comments of the commissioner about Caitlin Clark and other players and the way that they benefit from the WNBA platform, show me contempt. And that's not a mindset that values the players as partners in this business. For me, it's very condescending and it's very outdated. And it's outdated

too because it belittles the fact that these women in the modern day age of NIL and this NCAA belittles the body of work for their building an audience, brand building, business building, you know, money, all of that that they bring to the WNBA before they even step foot on the court. This new age of players is bringing that to the WNBA before they've ever played a game. So that mindset is incredibly outdated. I even think that there's a pattern of contempt

and also lack of transparency and how the league has been handling the sale of the Connecticut Sun. And the contempt is for, you know, ownership that has been a partner of the league for over two decades. The contempt is for fans. Kind of feels like bullyball. We're not getting all the information. There's a lack of transparency around what's actually happening with this sale.

So why does something escalate to this mountain of an explosion? It's a pattern of unprotectiveness, disrespect, lack of transparency, contempt. And that's when a workforce comes together in this way. Hey NFL fans. What's your favorite touchdown? For me, mine, it's always the next one. With Traff King Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NFL, every touchdown could put cash in your hands. I'm talking first touchdown scorers, anytime touchdowns, live bets. Every snap is an opportunity. Download the Traff King Sportsbook app. And And use code could follow.

That's code G-O-O-D-F-O-L-O-W to turn five bucks into $200 in bonus bets if your bet wins. In partnership with Draft Kings, the crown is yours, your sure, sure. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler. In New York, call 8778 Hope and Y or text Hope and Y 469. In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling. and call 888-78-9-777 or visit ccpg.org. Please play responsibly. On behalf of Boothill Casino and Resort in Kansas, fees may apply in Illinois.

21 and over. Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Boyd in Ontario. Bet must win to receive reward. Minimum minus 500 odds required. Bonus bets expire seven days after issuance. Four additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dkng.com slash audio.

By the seven-time world's best leisure airline champions, Air Transat. Well, there's been a lot of unprotectiveness for a while. And with your leadership, you never want your leadership to feel like it's more about the business than the players. And that's what it's looking like. Speaking of myself, who has gotten hurt, tore my ACL in the game because a girl runs into my leg, bulldozes them to my leg, like a football player. because it was bad we had complained about bad officiating the whole game

this was my semifinals this was my chance to get a ring on on the stage to go to the finals i get hurt because of that we had yelled and screamed it girl runs into my leg my career has never been the same sense do i have any kind of health care of pension to take care of me now for what my body has gone through all these years of giving my all to this game no so i got to go out here and i'm speaking for the legends who don't have the voice that I have that are out there working their nine to five now after giving their all to the league and there's nobody supporting them and they weren't offered a $100,000 job, where is the protectants for these for these girls? I go to get my teeth clean. I got to pay

out my pocket. If I have another knee issue from being bulldozed in my leg, I got to pay out my pocket. No pension for us, nothing after giving my all to this game. And those are some things with this new CBA that has to change for the future of this league and for these women who put their bodies through so, so much. And that's where the protectiveness can start. Right. Because it's protectiveness. It's you protecting your players while they're playing,

but it's also the life that they have afterwards as well. There you go. And, you know, the conversation around officiating is, you know, first of all, Angel, like, I see you, I appreciate you. Like, I'm sorry that this is the way you've been left after literally dedicating your entire life to ball. And thank you for that. You know, yeah.

And like, you know, for you to feel like you've been used and discarded and unprotected, hurt and let go. And like, that's what these players are calling for. They dedicate their whole lives to these games and to the same. to this game and like you're impeding their ability to actually do this craft, you know, and and also the results. Like this is also about integrity of the game that fouls and officiating is fair and consistent and allows the game to be played at the highest level possible to be appreciated.

Like see, you know, fee said sustainability, the product got to be sustainable. Like, is this a good product? That's what Fee's saying. And I think we've heard that from a lot of people. Let's move to some of the conversation we heard from officiating in the WNBA. When Fee was asked, when Fee asked Kathy about the officiating issues, this is what Kathy had to say. At unrivaled this past February, I sat across from Kathy and asked how she planned to address the officiating issues in our league. Her response was, while only the losers complain about the refs.

Wow. And then to continue on to what's been happening in the WNBA playoffs, Cheryl Reeve, her comments about officiating, she was fined $15,000 by the league. Then just for agreeing, Becky Hammond and Fever head coach Stephanie White, they made like small comments kind of supporting Reeve saying that, you know, she didn't tell any lies or I didn't hear anything wrong. And they were each fined $1,000 each. And here's the issue. Like the WNBA doesn't have to put. out an announcement. Like, we don't get an email from the league or an official announcement that we have fined so-and-so for this reason. This is why this was the amount. There's no

transparency like that. It's, we only hear about this because of a media scrum and if the, if the coaches tell us. So actually, Stephanie White had this to say about her fines. I already got fine for supporting Cheryl. So, yeah, which I think is crazy. But, you know, look, I think there's nothing, there's nothing that we want more than just consistency. That's That's what I would say. Oh, what is that? Yeah. It's a form of silencing and it's a form of control.

Just all these, $15,000 for sure is absolutely insane. Even Sophie Cunningham, I don't obviously agree with everything she does, but she has a podcast and she's always fond by the league on her podcast. First of all, the league, that means the league is watching everything we do. Like we're kids watching everything we say. Are you finding these women? If it was bad, I'm like, okay. You deserve the fine.

But this stuff, it's a form of control. And what Fee did today, she opened up a sleeping giant. Yeah, it does seem like the league is trying to have control, but without lack of transparency, it can really impact integrity. And integrity in sports is really important or perceived integrity of it. And that's across any league or sport. Let's move along. he made other important comments during her exit interview,

this one addressing Caitlin Clark and other players. I also asked how she planned to fix the fact that players like Caitlin, Angel, and Paige, who are clearly driving massive revenue for the league, are making so little for their first four years. Her response was, Caitlin should be grateful she makes $16 million off the court because without the platform that the WMBA gives her, she wouldn't make anything. Wow.

So my first response here is, again these are alleged comments in a conversation we weren't there for so um you know Kathy does get the grace of responding to this however what is happening here if if these comments are true it just shows that the league is belittling the all the work that these players are doing all of their brand capital um all that they bring to the table much earlier now in the age of NIL that they bring to the table that they're bringing, business that they're bringing, fandom and audience that they're bringing to the WNBA before they ever play a game. And certainly, Caitlin Clark was already that before she came to the WNBA.

She, you know, like she already had that commanding power. And so it's really disappointing, if that's the mindset, because and outdated, because more and more these players are not lucky to be in the WNBA. they are partners with the WNBA. And this is really important as they step into a CBA negotiation where I think it's going to be really critical for everyone to carve out

what their roles and identities are and contributions are to this league and the success of it in the year of 2025 and beyond. That's so true. You know, thank God that, you know, the brands are helping these women. Because like me and Candace has spoke on this.

We didn't become financially successful because of the WBA. We had to go do years overseas and Russia and so much sacrifice. So, but Kathy, the Dumbay is making you rich, right? Because we know it's your salaries and the millions. So how could you even, I need, Kathy, I love you, but I need you to be for the players. And it's seeming like you're not for the players, you're just for the business. And that has to change. The players first.

The business stuff is already going to come. but the players have to be first because that is the product. And I feel, Angel, that we have seen the more you invest into this thing, the more returns you're getting. So, you know, whether that has been putting the games on prime channels, prime TV, you know, windows, investing in practice facilities, investing in the quality of life for these players, you know, putting together ways for them, creative ways for brand partnerships to happen, authentic and meaningful ones, you know, NIL, all of this has driven increased momentum for

women's basketball. Why would you suddenly have such a small mindset around the players now? I think it would only encourage thinking bigger and bigger in the investment of those very said players. But with that investment, Roz, isn't the teams paying for the practice facilities? Not the WMBA. Right. So where is our investment coming from the WMBA? I need the receipts. Release them.

Show them because it's not for the girls. Right. And the investments that we're seeing coming in from all of those outside entities, new owners, brand deals, TV, media rights. The money is going towards the league and the investments being made into the WNBA. But if all the players kind of looking up and wondering, when does this trickle down? To me, it's on the backs of their, the backs of their bodies, their sweat. their pain, their injuries, their effort over the years,

all that they have devoted to this league and it's not, they're not getting their slice. And it's just also reminiscent of constant conversation where it's like black bodies, you know, a good percentage of this league, 80% or something, something like that, 70% or 80% of the league is black women. And, you know, not getting what they're worth. And if you take race out of it, women, not getting what they're

worth equity. The WNBA is right at the center of this conversation of equity, of gender equity, pay equity, gender rights, and like, you would hope that a woman's league would get it right. So all eyes will be on the league. I do want to say this as we close this out and head to break. As a journalist, it's important to also just bring up some objectivity here. Again, fees comments. Some of them are allegedly about a conversation.

we were not there for, so we await comments from Kathy Engelbert and the league and their response. Also, you know, just thinking about where this happens, it's during the contentious CBA, so everybody has something to gain from these kind of public comments, and both sides do. And also, it was asked during the media presser, look, fee is coming off of a really disappointing season, personally missing the MVP ending in an injury not winning a championship falling short and the dramatic way in which it ended somebody asked and I thought it was a great question you know does this happen if you know they win the chip could you see her at the podium after the links running it back to the finals and winning a championship you know bringing this

kind of conversation up does this still happen if the links win a championship I don't know we don't know it's not it's a hypothetical but it's worth bringing up in the discussion of these monumental remarks from Nefisa Collier. Another consideration is Nefisa Collier's role as a co-founder of unrivaled an alternative women's basketball league and how that could influence her comments and perhaps any conflicts of interest that come with her position there. We'll be right back. With Amex Platinum, access to exclusive Amex pre-sale tickets can score to a spot trackside.

So being a fan for life turns into the trip of a lifetime. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Pre-sale tickets for future events subject to availability and varied by race. Terms and conditions apply. Learn more at MX.ca. slash Yannex. Welcome back to Goodfellow, presented by Draft Kings. It is now time for the Draft King's pick of the week, presented by Draft Kings.

All right, y'all, this week I have my eye on the matchup between the Aces and the fever. Decisive Game 5 happening tonight. Asia Wilson is the best in the world, but Aaliyah Boston has been holding her own defensively and has been giving Asia a run for her money. It has been a chaotic few days in the W, and the fever are riding an inspiring playoff run despite injuries. So in the end, I think the fever could light the league on fire and come out on top to head to the finals.

This segment is presented by Draft Kings. Draft Kings, the crown is yours. All right, y'all, that does it for an explosive day in the WNBA. And for this show, Angel, it was great kicking it with you and hearing from you. and for all of you at home watching, thanks for tuning in, subscribe. I'm pretty sure we're going to be covering all of this for the next weeks and months to come.

All right, we'll be back to see you Thursday.