The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - GOOD FOLLOW - Nneka Ogwumike Denied By FIBA, Portland Names Its First Head Coach & More!

Episode Date: October 21, 2025

Today on Good Follow: Ros Gold-Onwude and Angel McCoughtry have a pajama show and introduce Angel’s segment, “Halo or Hell No!”, to break down their thoughts on the Portland Fire’s new head coach, Alex Sarama. Will he have success in the WNBA? How do coaches connect with their players? How will his CLA method set up the Fire for success? Then, DraftKings S.E.R.V.E.S. partners with the Larry Fitzgerald Foundation to raise funds and awareness for breast cancer research. Next, they react to Nneka Ogwumike being denied the opportunity to play for Team Nigeria in this upcoming World Cup and the 2028 LA Olympics. What does it mean to be an Olympian as an athlete? Why hasn’t she been able to play for Team USA or Team Nigeria? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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to Draft King's Network Hey, what's up, Hey, what's up, welcome, welcome to Good Follow show presented by DraftKings. I'm Roz Gold on Wodei, and that is Angel McAughtry five-time WNBA All-Star and two-time Olympic gold medalists. And we are coming to you live from the L.A. studio. And you know it's always a more fun show when we're together in person.

Yes. And you think they're wondering why we're dressed like this? Yes. Please explain. This is the first ever inaugural pajama show on Good Follow show. Even though we got PJs on, our show is anything but sleepy. part of my soft era right now I like to be at home with my incense

y'all see I brought candles today I got candles and the lighter although we were told we were not allowed to light anything here oh the vanilla sea salt guys and this one says cozy season and also shout out to our producers because the set is crazy we came in here today and the whole thing looks like a campfire tent set

they got pillows oh we got these oh they gave us friendship bracelets you got to put it on our friendship bracelet slits for the show. Oh, that's cute. No, that's fine. And, Roz, you gotta show them your nails. Come on.

The nails is what sets it off. This ain't have nothing to do with it. This is not the sleepover. This is where the fire comes. Yeah, I'm a nail girlie right now. So, um, nah, we just wanted to bring some fun and softness to the show. But we are ready to get into this show because it's never a sleepy day on a good follow show. Here's the menu for today.

The Portland Fire named their first head coach. We React. And our girl, Nekha Aguamake, she was denied to compete for Nigeria at the Olympics, yet again, thwarted. Well, guys, you can check us out. Tuesdays and Thursdays. Continue to like, comment, and subscribe. We appreciate all the love because this is a family environment. Yes, it is, absolutely.

I also want to introduce the stuffed animal goat here for all goaty conversations. Love that. Let's go. But beyond that, guys, just want to remind you, like, look, women's basketball, it's WNBA, it's college ball, it's unrivaled, it's athletes, it's unlimited, it's a new CBA, it's crazy free agency, it's all the things, and our show is going to be here twice a week, and we're going to do this with you covering it Tuesdays and Thursday, so stick with us, all the things. Yes. Angel. Yeah. Today's a big day for you.

It's a big day, man. Yeah, it's a big day for Angel on Good Follow show, because she has a debut segment that you're revealing to the audience. What is your segment? Angel has a segment, everybody all right guys a new segment is called halo or hell no this is how it works wait i'm dead look at that we're going to talk about a topic yes and we're going to give it a halo if we like it and the hell no if we're not rocking with it so let's get started ross i'm excited about this i love that and it's because your name is angel yeah for those of you playing off the name giving a little halo so if y'all didn't follow what was happening here you know what's okay let's do it let's do it okay hell no. Let's start off here. First up, the Portland Fire announced that their head coach

for its inaugural year in the W is going to be Alex Sarama. And he was an assistant with the Cleveland Cavaliers. And we've seen coaches coming from the NBA side have success. You know, think about coach of the year this year, Natalie Nakase, obviously Becky Hammond, Nate Tibbitts with the Phoenix Mercury. Like, these are all coaches who have done well. coming from more of like an NBA background. So Angel, Halo or Hell No, looking outside the WNBA for head coaching roles. I'm going to give this a halo

only because we don't know, we all want more black women coaches, but we don't know are they applying for these jobs? We're going to give him a chance to show what he can do in the league. But I will say, can we hire more NBA coaches or women coaches than the NBA?

Let's start doing that as well. Yeah, and I know before you had mentioned that there were a number of coaches you were looking at that said these are you know black women women who have been coming up or just coaches coming up in in women's basketball that should be getting looks yeah i have a list of women who i think could be really great woman head coaches christie tolliver's one watch her in maryland she's done some stuff in the NBA she's she's great uh we have courtney paris who was a teammate of mine um i runica hodges latoria sanders i mean the list goes down it's so many more but just for time say those are

just a few I had on my list. Yeah, Brienne January comes to mind as well. And it's not even just like that it has to be women or black women. It could also be males. It's just like coaches that have been working their way up for years within the women's basketball system, whether that's college hoops or WNBA. But there does seem to be a little bit of a recent trend of kind of looking completely outside a woman's basketball. And look, the goal when you're in franchise is to win, right?

It's to win. And you can, as a player, you respond well to any coach. It's a matter of man, woman, black, white. I'm not going to say that. Yeah, I'm asking. I'm asking. But, I mean, this is a pro level. So it has to be a coach that relates to the players because, you know, we're not in college.

It's a different level in college. You're on their case more. You're watching what they do. You know, who they hang with? We're grownups. You know what I mean? So you have to relate, like, adults. Yeah.

Actually, so, I mean, understanding, like, what the lifestyle is, you know, being able to talk to a grown women, these aren't kids in college. Like, there's, there's. is an issue of demeanor, you know, being able to connect. And you may be a brilliant mind, but you might lose the locker room if, like, you can't get the message across. You know, and a lot of people, you know, might have pointed to was the connection, right, for Cochlanis, who is highly regarded, and Dallas only lasted a season there, just using

that as a case study. But, you know, so there might be something to be said about someone who understands what it's like to be in that locker room. You have to understand. And I will say for men coaches, understand women. You know, we love a constant pat on the back. We always want to feel like we're doing it right. I want to challenge men coaches to really understand the psychology of women, especially in sports

and what we go through in our biology. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I just think that's different for each player and person, too. There are some people who like to get, you know, dogged on and, you know, push to the limits. And there certainly are some people, like, I think a good coach is one that understands there might be a different message for each player. And a great coach can bring the best out of a talented player, understanding what they need, you know, while also holding people accountable.

So you might be able to push this player a little bit differently. You may have to pull this player to the side and talk a little bit more softly. Like the amount of patience that takes and just like also there's an emotional IQ aspect of coaching that is not just about like, are you the best at drawing up plays? And you connect emotionally. Like you said, that's the mark of a great leader and coach knowing your playing personnel, who you can yell at, who you can't, who shuts down doing this. how do you motivate and that's where you also have your leader as a player to go to coincide with you with that

exactly that's why i think point guards end up being great coaches i'm super biased but often like as a point guard you got to learn how to talk to your your play your teammates around you and i was constantly aware of like you know all right tar vandevere is getting on this player crazy i'm a i'm a relay the message later in a different way and and bring that player back up shoot i had to do that for myself sometimes. Right, right. But to come back to, but that's an interesting conversation

just about, like, the different types of coaches. And I just want to say, too, like being hard or not relating, there's plenty of female coaches that also can be out of touch or even abusive. Like, you know,

you know, clearly there were some issues with, allegedly issues with the Seattle Storm and Jewel Lloyd. Like, it just wasn't a match there, right? Yeah. I don't know exactly what was true or not, but we know that that didn't work out. And so that's an example of, hey, that's a female coaching staff and a player it didn't work for.

Also, with Coach Noelle Quinn, now being let go, there are no black female head coaches in the WNBA, which does ring a bell. Like, there's no representation now of that. So coming back to the Portland Fire, bringing in Alex Sarama as the head coach for the Portland Fire, honestly, the reveal of that, was pretty ho-hum in the sense that here's what we like kind of knew from just like this tweet that came out. You know, he's got experience in Europe. He, you know, made a splash.

It had a little splash in Portland with the G-League team. He was a part of the coaching staff for Rip City Remix. So there's a tie, I guess, to Portland. He had a season with the Cleveland Cavaliers. So some people are critical like, all right, well, bro, he was with the NBA.

He was only there a year with the Cavs. Yeah. So it's not exactly a riveting headline. to win the press conference, and again, especially when representation is slim, people are critical of there not being any black female head coaches in the WNBA. And even just like any type of coach, regardless of gender or race, if they've been working their way up in women's basketball and still someone else got chosen over them. But I am here, as always, to present the other side.

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Additional terms at DKNG.g.com slash audio. Limited time offer. If there's one thing I love, it's I'm going to try to give all the information and present it. So here's the other side. As a scene set, the New York Liberty, right, after going to the finals, let go of Coach Sandy Brandello. And the franchise discussed, the GM discussed, looking for more innovation, despite how far the team went and the year before the team won a championship. So that should kind of cue where the WNBA is, where they're entering not only an arms race of practice facilities, now, but an arms race of, like, analytics and innovation.

And think about it, the way that the NBA had, often these types of things happen in trends, and then everybody copycats it. Think Mike Dantone and the Phoenix Suns or the Houston Rockets. Remember, it was pace and space and a whole ton of threes. Right, right, right. And then everyone was doing it. So now the WNBA is, you're hearing the word, we're looking for innovation in our approach. And, you know, methodology and innovation could possibly be really advantage.

with women because athleticism is not quite as explosive as men's is. So that suddenly is a huge advantage if you've got this, like, methodology that works, perhaps. Who knows if you invest in it? So new head coach Alex Sarama is a big voice for CLA method, which CLA means constraints-led approach. In fact, he's actually a thought leader for CLA. He wrote a book called Transforming Basket. And, like, many people look to him to, there's, he didn't create it, but he's furthered the conversation around it.

Okay. So, CLA, Angel, I wanted to present this to you and then be like, what do you think about this as an actual pro athlete? So in my, let me tell you, I'm not an expert in this, but I did read a whole bunch of articles to try and understand what CLA was. And here's what I've gotten from it. It's about reacting to unpredictable environments. versus muscle memory.

So we came up with a muscle memory approach. We're going to run the same triangle offense over and over and over the same offense, understand all the actions because we've put it to muscle memory. Or we're going to work on the same move, the same step back 1,000 times, 500 times in a day. And so that like it becomes muscle memory.

What CLA is saying is no, players have to adapt moves on the fly So they want to say that, like, they would argue that muscle memory actually limits you because in a real game, scenarios are unpredictable. So that move you did a thousand times over and over, that's not actually how it appears for you in the game. And, like, they want to prepare you to be able to react and adapt as, like, situations. So let me pull this up from the athletic.

One more thing, Angel. That means putting players into scenarios with different limitations called constraints, to stimulate the unpredictable environment of an actual game, whether it's the number of steps they can take, the area of the playing surface from which they are allowed to maneuver or even the weight of the ball that they're using. Players are repeatedly told to overcome restrictions that they can't predict to accomplish a task.

And the last piece of information I want to give to this, angel, this method is not like obscure. It's catching disciples. Guess the names that are into it. Victor Webbenyama. Kelsey Plum basically said like her career was changed by it. And I think one of the best case studies of this

is Cleveland Cavaliers head coach Kenny Atkinson literally read Sarama's book and said, we're going to bring this guy in to the Cleveland Cavaliers. This is how we got the assistant coaching job for the year. We're going to bring him in and he's going to teach us and help us implement the CLA system. And they made

him an assistant coach last year with the Cavs. And guess what? The results are undeniable in that the Cavs won 64 games, the most in franchise history. Kenny Atkinson was named Coach of the Year. And, you know, perhaps this method helped influence that. And that's, that is the guy that the Portland Fire are bringing in as their head coach. Now, that is a headline. So it's evident that it works. I am a believer in muscle memory. So why not incorporate both, right? Despite him not having the warm welcome that he's had, I mean, guys, it's evident. It's

evident that they hired him for a reason that he's doing something right. And we just have to congratulate him and see what he does. I'm going to look into this CLA and see what it can do for me because I'm still working out. I'm going to try it. I mean, you have to upgrade things every 10 years. You can't have the same system over and over. But you can still add a little bit of old with the new. And hey, I'm a believer like, let's try it out and see how it goes. Yeah. If you were a player on the Portland Fire, would it excite you to hear a coach? coming in with some kind of like new strategy? Yeah, I'm all for it.

Because sometimes how do things get invented in life? Somebody comes up with a great idea and they perfect it and it can change the world. So I'm always open for new ideas. I mean, I didn't think there could be anything new in basketball. Right, right, right, right. But you see that where it can go, the evolution of it, of where it can go. So I'm actually anxious to try this out. Yeah, I'm a big proponent of analytics, but also good old fashion hoops and feel.

And like the combination. I don't like to be too this way or too that way. I think together. But at the end of the day, I'm old school too. I'm like, you know, hoop is hoop. Talent is talent. But these types of strategies could make a big difference. And the Portland Fire decided they're going to invest in that and build from the ground up

and see where they can go with, you know, Sarama and CLA. Yeah, I'm interested to see. We, I am too. All right. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up, y'all, welcome back to Good Follow Show. Today's episode is presented by Draft Kings. Breast Cancer Awareness Month is here.

And since 2019, Draft King Serves has partnered with the Lowry Fitzgerald Foundation on the Pinkham campaign to raise funds. and awareness for breast cancer research. Founded in 2005 by Larry Fitzgerald Jr. After losing his mother to breast cancer in 2003, the Larry Fitzgerald Foundation aims to provide equitable access and support for families affected by breast cancer. They partner with organizations dedicated to this cause and fund mobile mammogram activations

offering free screenings to residents in underserved communities. This October, Draft Kings and the Larry Fitzgerald Foundation are teaming up once again to support breast cancer research. With the Pinkham program, Draft King Serves is pledging to raise $100,000 during Breast Cancer Awareness Month. To join the calls, visit draftkings.com for slash serves. Enter a weekly Pinkham contest and Draft Kings will donate $1 per entry on your behalf. All right, Angel, we are back.

to your debut segment of, what is it called again? Halo or Hell No. Presented by Angel. I love this graphic they have for you. Okay, we are back. The next segment of Halo or Hell No is about Nekha Aguamake's again failed try to play in the Olympics in the World Cup. Fiba has denied Nekha Aguimike's application to compete for Nigeria at next year's World Cup and the 2028 L.A. Olympics.

And this is her third time. Phoebe has denied her appeal to play for Nigeria. three times. I mean, you're talking about over a decade. USA basketball gave NECA its blessing. They gave it to her to play for Nigeria after being left off of the 2020 U.S. National Olympic team. Now, Angel, you are a two-time Olympic gold medalist. You've been a part of some of the very controversial decisions for some of those team rosters. And actually on our show earlier on Goodfala show when you were a guest, you felt strongly that NECA should have been on that USA basketball team. Here's what you had to say.

Let's check out the receipts. Also, my sis Nekha Agumake wasn't on that team. And she was the MVP of the WNBA that year. They had just won a championship. They should be the team. I'm going to speak up now and say, NECA is an MVP. NECA should have a shoe deal. Oh, yeah.

And so that was the 2016 Olympic team where the Sparks won the championship and NECA was the league MVP. And both she and Candace Parker actually were left off of that Olympic roster. So anyway, Halo or hell no, NECA should be an Olympian. Hell no, that Fiba will not appeal the decision to let her play for the Nigerian national team. She is Nigerian. I know you also Nigerian.

Could you imagine you being able to go and support her in that? I played for the Nigerian national team. You did? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And how much fun did you have with that? Girl, it was one of the highlights of my career and life. And actually, we were kind of part of the teams that were setting a path for the current woman's Nigerian national team that actually in the last Olympics in Paris

made it to the quarter-final. They were the first African national team in the Olympics to ever win a game. Men's or women's. The women's Nigerian national team props to them and obviously think about what they could do with adding NECA Agu-Makeh. Oh my goodness. Could you imagine?

So thank you, Ross, for paving the way. But, you know, NECA has extended a lot of resources in time to be an Olympian and it's so unfortunate that even during a time where she's a league MVP and she's winning a championship, she's still left off the Olympic team. And I know there's rules to, the rules are if you play on an Olympic team,

you can never play for another country. Those are the rules. They discourage that. They discourage that. It's not that it's never happened, by the way. I want to mind you, there's been, there's been changes in nationality.

There's been cases where they've allowed that in the Olympics. I don't know exactly like what sports, but it has happened. Well, that's interesting. I have to look more into that. But in this case, NECA has never actually really played on the U.S. She's played in tournaments, but I think for a situation like this and for someone of NECA's caliber and for the world who wants to see her play in the Olympics, Fiba, give the appeal.

So this is a hell no for me. Give her a chance. She deserves to be there. And I always tell people to have an Olympic experience to be around that environment, to be around different countries and just, I just tell people just go. Put that on your bucket list. And for NECA, that should be something that she should have on her resume. and it's no excuse why she shouldn't, let her do it. If I need to call fever myself, if we need to petition,

what we got to do to get her at one Olympics? Let's do it. Yes, it feels very unfortunate, very arbitrary, very punitive in the way that NECA is being handled and has been handled now over the last decade around this. I think there's been a lot of mismanagement and miscommunication that she's getting from both the Team USA side and from the Olympic Committee side. what's happening as an individual is really being hurt

by this and denied an opportunity that she really deserves and legitimately you know blood earns it it's in her blood like she's an American she has a right to being an American and absolutely has a right to being a Nigerian

like her parents from there I've heard of much crazier situations of you know people creating ties to certain countries and what country they can represent like this is somebody who legitimately both parents are from Nigeria and the to your point has never actually played on a USA Olympic team, although has trained with them. And in some ways, it feels like NECO was gaslit along the way and just like, you know, misled and maybe even being used as an

example at this point. And you're talking about somebody who is one of the most decorated, talented, and one of the most contributing players, contributing. Let me say that again, one of the most contributing players to the woman's basketball game as a sport. And to deny her, it feels very tragic. And so just to take you through, like, I think NECA's best chance to your point was that 2016 national team, which is just an abomination from USABball where literally this is the MVP of the league and she just won a championship. Can I say this, Roz, like, can we stop taking it for granted?

I know that we are America and we're used to winning and we have the best players in the world. Like, I've listened to what other countries would do for their Olympians if they win gold. Like when I was in Turkey, they said, oh my God, if we win gold, we get a million dollars plus gold and the car and Russia was like, we get $10,000 a month for the rest of our lives.

But here we are taking our Americans for granted because we're that good. Yeah. Don't take this stuff for granted. And here's my thing, Angel. Guess what? L.A. Olympics, 2028, that France national team

that took them USA basketball all the way to the wire in Paris that France national team let me say a few names here Dominique Malunga Gabby Williams Marine Johannes

if you don't know who Layla Lacan is you need to see her in person she's tough she's long and tough Janelle Salon I'm just naming a few names Janelle Salon was in a rookie year

conversation Layla Lacan as well these are young players who have three years and tough and physical and good. Basketball globally is getting better in women's basketball. But I just think there's been a number now of kind of controversial decisions. And maybe back in the day, you could get away with that because Team USA was so strong. But to go back to NECA's case, we talked about how strong her case was in 2016 as a champion, as an MVP.

But even the Olympics before that in 2012, NECA was a rookie, the number one draft pick. Wow. She went on to win rookie of basketball. the year. Sometimes you see national teams decide to still, you know, invest in that young player and put them on the roster. They didn't do it there. Obviously, 2016, they didn't do it there. 2020, now NEC has been in the system, going to camps, going, doing all the programs, doing all the smaller cup games, this and that. Absolutely. And then was not put on that 2020 roster after devoting now years to USA basketball. So in some way, she might feel

gaslit. And then after that, 2020, 2020, 24, 2028, she's been denied. for her quest for Nigeria basketball national team. We failed her. We failed Nekka. Yeah. So very, very disappointing, in my words, tragic

that she won't have international Olympic experience to put on a resume that regardless either way is going to be a future hall of fame. Absolutely. All right, that does it for our first ever progenre show of Goodfala show.

Thank you for rocking with us. We're Tuesdays. We're Thursdays. We'll see you next. time.