The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - Good Follow - Paige Bueckers vs Caitlin Clark, Allisha Gray for MVP? + Is Jewell Loyd a Bad Fit for Vegas? & More

Episode Date: June 19, 2025

This week on Good Follow: Meadowlark Media’s Lucy Rohden joins Ros & Logan for a show all about hot topics. Is Allisha Gray an MVP candidate? Who is the better point guard between Caitlin Clark and Paige Bueckers? And is Angel Reese’s secret weapon passing? They break it all down. Later, Ros, Logan, and Lucy discuss hot topics submitted by fans. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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from No Frills with PC Express. Shop online and get $15 in PC optimum points on your first five orders. Shop now at nofrills.ca. points on your first five orders. Shop now at nofrills.ca. You're listening to DraftKings Network. Hey, what's up y'all? Welcome to Good Follow, presented by DraftKings. I am Roz. She is Logan Hackett. I am still in France. I'm in Cannes in the French Riviera. Bonjour. Bonsoir.

We already have established in our episode earlier this week that Logan speaks French. We have a special guest for today's show. And amongst her many talents, I wonder if speaking another language including French is one of those coming to the show today is our girl metal Arts very own Lucy Rodin. Hi guys. Bad news. I went to school in the South so I can I can barely speak proper English. We're pushing that one right now.

I'm fluent in Redneck if you want that. But outside of that I don't know how much else. Oh boy. All dialects I guess welcome. But no pressure, Lucy. You know, Logan's just an overachiever. How you doing, girl? Well, I'm feeling a little inadequate right now, but outside of that, great. No, you're crushing it. You always are.

And you know, one of the things we're excited to have you for is a full show here today. Let me take you guys, everyone watching through the menu. We are diving into hot topics. Okay, some of them were sent in from the fans even. So here are the hot topics and questions. Who's the better point guard? Paige Becker's or Caitlin Clark? Is Alicia Gray in the MVP race?

The answer is duh, but we're going to get into why. What's Angel Reese's secret weapon? Ooh. And who should take over in Dallas? Is Jewel Lloyd a poor fit for the aces? And just a reminder to everyone, we now drop two episodes every single week. You can catch us on Tuesdays and Thursdays on YouTube or wherever else you get your podcast. But Roz, Lucy, are you ready to get into the hot fire flames takes? Let's do it. Yeah, let's do it. All right. So starting with the one that you cared led with Roz right out the gate. Super hot page. First, Caitlin since going first overall in both of their respective draft classes.

The comparisons between them have been nonstop. I feel like I see one every single day. But this weekend, Paige joined Caitlyn as the only rookies to achieve 35 plus points and five plus three pointer made stat line in their rookie seasons. So hot topic number one, who in the world is the better point guard? Paige or Caitlyn Clark? Man, you guys came out smoking.

You came out steaming. This is like the most intense appetizer ever. What? It's... So, one, this is just a crazy... I love how crazy we are as sports fans that we're like, we have two of the greatest basketball players playing right now and we get to enjoy it.

We're like, let's make this miserable. Let's fight each other over it. I obviously am a very biased individual when it comes to this. I'm a very proud Iowa grad. So anytime you put an Iowa player or any other player gets to like, I know what I got to do. I think that right now, Caitlin is better, but it's also crazy because we're having this conversation like a month into Page's career.

I just think they both do what their like, expertise is so well, where like, I think that Paige is a much better defender than Caitlin is, but Caitlin has the best vision that I've ever seen where it's, it is hard to compare them in a weird sense. Where right now I'm going to go with, with Caitlin, but I think there's a big sort of asterisk with the fact that like, Paige, my girl, I'm so sorry for the situation you're in. I really am. And I hope that you get a little extra support, a little extra love, a little extra just community around you. We're like, we've already sort of seen that from like Caitlin's perspective where last year she did have some really good surrounding

pieces. I don't want that to seem like that wasn't true, but it's gotten better and she has gotten better through that. So right now I'm going to go Caitlin because like why would I choose against the the all-time leader for single season assist record just her second season in that's kind of crazy. Right, no I agree with so many of the points that you made Lucy. First of all like I think we're looking at two point guards who are going to be one of two of the top talents in the game over the next decade. And I do think it's hard to compare Paige right now. She's literally just adjusting to the WNBA.

However, that said, I did try to make a little list of like, okay, how do these two compare? And I think overall, Caitlin is the better player right now. Right now, doesn't mean that Paige doesn't, you know, grow into she's a lot of growth to do. And so does Caitlin, by the way, she's, but interestingly enough, like they're the same age, cause think about all the time that Paige missed as well.

They're the same height. I think Caitlin was a little bit averages handedly more as six. Um, but page is more and taking care of the ba league and assist leads a Maybe her only kryptonite throw that thing away. Bu

it comes with the terrato the way she's you sometimes the way that she's like willing to take risks when they pay off it's big, you know, um, they both Caitlin rebounds more, she assists more. And I think that also has to do with, um, one, maybe being on a better team, but also having more experience. Here's where I say the two of them really differentiate themselves. For Caitlin, it's her pace of play. It's the range in which she shoots threes. It's the frequency of creation for other players, especially out of screens, and it's what she

does off the bounce. In no way whatsoever can pagebackers compare to the dominant play in those areas I just mentioned from Caitlin Clark. Those are differentiators. On the other side for Paige in this young start of her career, her efficiency stands out to me. She shoots the ball from three and from the field very well for a guard. Her pull up mid range jumper is really nice.

Her vision and decisions. You know, I think she she does a nice job there and she's got a nice shooting ability. She needs more strength. She's less to the rim at this point of her career than Caitlin is. But mind you, Caitlin put on a lot of straight in the off season. And to your point, too, I agree. Defensively, Paige is a better defender already and in potential because she's so long and she's still get deflection. She gets deals. She'll block a shot.

She did that on the college level and in the pros, I think in time and with more work in the weight room, she could be a really strong defender. So that was me like trying to put pen to paper and make a comparison. But my answer is just right now, Caitlin Clark is an overall better player than Paige and she's has more experience too. I completely have to agree with both of y'all. I mean, no, no, it's y'all said it all right there. And I think maybe this time next year, we can have a different conversation. Lucy, as you mentioned,

her being in Dallas is just not ideal. I even went back to check like, Oh, how did they do without her? And they're just L, L, L, L, L. And I was like, all right. So it's not really making that big of a difference there. But I do want to move on to our next one, which is a little bit of an MVP debate. Alicia Grey has been absolutely bawling out

and is one of three guards averaging over 20 points this season alongside Caitlin Clark and Kelsey Plumb. And she also recorded a career high of 32 points against the Mystics recently. So hot topic number two, does Alicia Gray have an MVP case? My hot take is that this isn't a hot topic at all. What do you mean? You scored double figures every game this season. You're second in the league in scoring. You should automatically be in the MVP race. It's crazy that we're even having to sit here and campaign for it. You should be there. I look, I like to think that I'm a bright gal. I did not see this coming

for the dream this year. Eight and three as of the time of us recording. That is so much better than what I expected. And all of that is Alicia. So like, yeah, you should be in the MVP race. Like it's almost like silly and like she finally got the 30 against the Mystics, 32. Like so excited. I've been waiting for 30 for a long time. Like I'm sorry. I don't even know why we're like, like duh. Yes.

What do you mean? Like duh. Like yeah, I mean, I completely, completely agree, Lucy, like what she said. The only thing I'll add on to that is, you know, with the dream doing so well, too, they're currently sitting at third in the standing. Sometimes we have like the narrative aspect of it, like how well is the team doing? The team is supporting her MVP case. And also

how valuable are you to your team? Like if there's no Alicia gray, the Atlanta dream are not sitting at third. Like it's the consistency of the way that she's stepping up. And you've also got to point out how well Ryan Howard is playing. The two of them together are number one and number three in the league for threes made. And the way that the two of them together are number one and number three in the league for threes made and the way that the two of them are just setting the tone from the three point line like that changes everything that's possible for the dream as far as it's their ability to drive and have spacing and all the things and actually I was looking at the numbers look so Alicia leash averages more points than Ryan like four more points per game but they average about the same amount of assists,

four and a half, that's quite a bit of playmaking for teammates, by the way. They average about the same amount of steals, they're active defensively, about one and a half. I would say where Ryan differentiates is just, she's really often getting the assignment of the other team's best player, but that's not to say, Leaf is, Leaf is a great defender, too.

So while we're having a conversation, the answer is yes. Alicia Gray has an MVP case. But Ryan Howard is also really important and just needs to be shouted out as well in this discussion. I feel like the race for all of the awards are going to be incredibly tight this year. And even just thinking about MVP, I think the reason why it could be so foreign to some people is you think about Fee and Caitlyn up there and Alicia is kind of flying under the radar.

I mean, her name is getting bigger now, but a lot of people weren't looking out for her to make those big plays. So I definitely want to see her out there though. And the last one that we have is Angel Vree. She just had her first ever triple double and a victory over Connecticut Sun. And a lot of people have been commenting on how her vision seems to improve and same with

her decision making. But while she is known for, I mean, being the rebound Barbie, she quoted herself saying that she is a passing big. The quote is, I've been kind of a passer all my career. I came out of high school as the number one wing and I'm trying to get back to that, trying to get back to being super versatile. So hot take number three, is Angel Reese's passing her secret weapon and the real key

to this guy's success? I mean, yes. Once again, I'm like, is this a hot take? Because it feels kind of like an obvious yes to me, where it's not a coincidence that this guy finally get a win when Angel is passing the way that she does. Something that she posted on Instagram was just her, you know, her game fit and all her picks from the game. And I understand now, which was in reference to her coach saying that she needs to be like very, very versatile.

She needs to completely sort of be not just the rebound Barbie and just all basketball by you Barbie. And she said, I didn't understand it at first. And now I get it. And that was her, I understand now. And we saw that she had what? 11 assists to six different players, four other players for the sky scored in double figures. Like when Angel is able to just kind of like

make her game a little more spread out, both literally in the sense of like doing more and actually spreading out on the court, it is amazing how she can just completely change the dynamic of the sky because with the way she rebounds to be able to move the ball out like that, it's just like it opens up an entire different level of offense for the sky, which is something that they need. It's it's very much like girl. Yes, do this. Why haven't we been doing this before?

And like it's it is such a good fit for her and for the sky that like if she continues to play like that, it's going to change everything. Yeah. To illustrate your point about the way she's manufacturing these assists, we actually have some highlights of Angel Reese's passing out of that triple double. Let's see those assists that she had. Those 11 assists. I mean, so much good stuff happens when Angel is getting the ball on the move off the bounce. She made good decisions. She didn't get into deep. She avoided charges, the defense conversion. She made a quick pass like a point guard would, you know, it seems like adding space and getting her on the move is the right thing to do here and allowing

her to make a good decision. And so in many ways, like this could be the secret sauce. Yeah, I think Angel's secret sauce overall is her rebounding. Like, like that is the secret sauce. That is what she is so much better than any other player in the league, possibly over the course of time in the league. Like she may be, she is a generational rebounder, but if you add passing and don't forget, she's been empowered and been working very hard on her shooting and she's taken three point shots. You put all of that together. Plus the potential that she has the work ethic, the vision for this is really amazing. The only other ingredient

I would put in there is time. It takes time and it's going to be hard on Angel because she's going to see swarming defenses, collapses, and against much better teams than the Sun. And it's going to just take continued growth. And she's going to be that. Because I've said this in other episodes. Like, I have a feeling Angel is one of those people. Like, it's just what I'm observing about her.

When she puts her mind to something, she does it. I think when she can learn to fully turn off the tunnel vision towards the board, it is going to be insane. Because think about it, the Angel that we've known and seen for the past four or five years, it's literally tunnel vision at that net. And she's learning to turn it off, and it can't be easy.

Definitely, you're doing something so repetitively. But I'm so excited to see where she can go from here. But, y'all, coming up, we have some hot topics thing so repetitively, but I'm so excited to see where she can go from here. But y'all coming up, we have some hot topics that were submitted by y'all. So we'll be right back. All right, everybody, it's UFC International Fight Week. And while hotels in Vegas may be sold out, there's still one vacancy left and it's the lightweight title at UFC 317.

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from 1.74% and save up to $4,000. Conditions apply. Visit your GTA Volvo retailer or go to volvocars.ca for full details. Hey, what's up y'all. Welcome back to Good Follow. Today's episode is presented by DraftKings. DraftKings, the crown is yours. Lucy's like, what's going on here?

Logan, you should say that in French next time. Can you? Lauren, et toi? No, that doesn't make sense. Lauren and toi are in there. I know that for sure. You know what? Beautiful. Either way. I don't even know what she said, but I'm impressed.

I wouldn't believe you no matter what you said. We for those of you who are just joining us. I'm in France and we but the show must go on. And right now we're at the part of the show where for our hot topics, we asked you the fans on social media, what topics did you want us to hit? And you guys definitely did not disappoint. Okay, some of you guys are messy, by the way. Some of y'all are messy, but we did take some of your input for hot topics you'd like to see discussed. Logan, take it away.

Actually, we're going to start with maybe the one of the messiest, because I feel like this weekend was pretty messy in the W, but one of the messiest moments, y'all have probably seen it online, after getting into a heated discussion with Dejanae Carrington and blowing a 10 or more point lead to the Aces in the final minutes of the game, fans are speculating that head coach Chris Koklanis, aka WMB Jesus, aka Yogi Man, he has a lot of nicknames at this point, has officially lost the locker room. A lot of people don't like him and they're calling for Nola Henry to take over the wings So hot topic from at Hannah

Caja Nola Henry should take over in Dallas I think Dallas needs a lot. Maybe a prayer maybe Like I don't even know at this point It's I'm always like a firm in any sport. Like you got to give time. You got to give a little bit of time because things are going to like, if you're bringing in a new coach, if you're bringing in a new players, if you're starting a new system, there needs to be an adjustment period.

However, the wings were so bad that I'm like, I don't even know if I believe this anymore. I don't even know. I'm like looking back and like, is this or my values changing because of how bad they are? I think that you need to give it a little, a little extra time, but like clearly the vibes are off. I do think the locker room has been lost. You have one win on the season and you got the number one overall pick who has lived up to expectations. I understand that Paige had a concussion. I totally get

that, but like when she's dropping 35 and you're not competing at all, like, I don't know. My answer is maybe my answer is we should consider it. Like what's up in Dallas? What's going on in Dallas? Like they've always had like recently have had now a couple of seasons where there's, you know, whispering about what's happening in their locker room and they just can't get out the funk, you know, think about players who are returners there like aren't they're probably just tired of losing at this point. It's and it's hard to build morale and culture and all of that.

However, there is so much there's a ton of new faces. The team may not be as talented in some ways as other rosters. It's a new coach, the new system. It's the beginning of the season and the hot topic is not even like, you know, is coach Ko Klann is like having a hard start. The hot topic is should Nola Henry take over? Shout out to Nola, by the way, who did her big one at Unrivaled in Miami and was awarded rightfully so. But I think at this early point in the season,

calling for a head coach's head, I think more patience is needed. And it was already a tough situation for Dallas to begin with, and it takes some time to dig out of that. Hey, the good news 2020. The Liberty had a t record. So I mean they on to tie that and two more

written that. And then he maybe they can win a champ few years. It's it might them. But things happen f onto the next fan question. Jewel Lloyd joined the Aces this season and there was a lot of high expectations after she had a strong 10 seasons in Seattle. However, fans are saying that her shooting efficiency has gone down to a career low and

the team is just struggling all around with bench depth since losing Kelsey Plum. So hot topic from Hoosier Gator, is Jewel Lloyd actually a poor fit for the Aces? This one is one that I really kind of struggled with my answer because I feel a lot of ways. I feel like really the big problem is the Aces right now and not so much Jewel Lloyd. I mean, you're dead last in the league in assists. This is a team that has had such a solidified identity for the past few years that just feels kind of out of it. But at the same time, despite two strong performances from Jewel for the last two games, before that it was deeply unpleasant.

When you're in a situation where Becky Hammond is coming out and saying, Jewel has actually asked if she can be moved to the bench so she can come off. Like that's, you don't want to hear that, especially with how much money you're paying. Like that's never a good sign. And so I do think that like the ACEs are kind of the root of the problem right now, cause everything is just off there. It just doesn't really seem right.

But also at the same time, like Jules field goal percentage has dropped pretty steadily over the last few years. Like it's kind of a straight slope there. So I don't, this is a weird one where I think the answer is kind of the Aces are also the problem and Jewel Lloyd. Like, so maybe then, yeah, I guess that does answer the question. Yeah, it is a bad fit. Oh my God. Yeah. I got it. Yeah. No, it's no secret. This is the cat is out the bag on this one. As far as

Jules decline in efficiency, especially over the last three seasons, and also the amount of volume that she takes for shots. I agree with you overall, I'm not ready to at all point any fingers at one player and say, Oh, you know, Jules got an issue here. I think there's something that that needs to be worked on with jewel. But I agree, like aces on a hole, I've said this before, it's almost like they're a shell of themselves and they've had a lot of really key ingredients over the course of years now, like a road away, whether that was like players or coaches. And you know, as much as that like focal group can be great, it's still a lot of the same

questions for them. So with Jewel, I just feel like coming off the bench isn't necessarily a bad thing. I understand your concept of like, do you wanna hear someone who's supposed to be a star asking for that? Sometimes you can be better featured in the second unit. Like you might have a like chance to get um set up t

or have the ball in your goes through jewel first like it goes through Asia Chelsea Gray is going to for for a while. But the shots to go around in tha First of all, when Kia Stokes is in there, she's not even taking a shot. So literally, she does not take a shot.

So there should be enough shots to go around. And it's not like somebody is so ball-dominant in that aces lineup. So I think that needs to work. And then another thing I'll bring up is that when when we were talking about gold mamba and like she was part of championship winning Seattle storm teams, don't forget she was sitting alongside Sue bird, Brianna Stewart. These are two of the greatest players in the history of the game. They're both in the conversation for goat of all time, you know, and that's not to just to take anything away. But it's to say that there was a lot of support

there. Same thing, there's four Olympians on the aces, but I think that people, I think the aces need more from every single player on that team to make it work. I feel like they're in a way failing to adapt to change and just keep on trying to replicate those championship seasons that they had but they're losing the pieces and not doing anything to kind of bring it back or I guess adapt to the change but I really want to see them do well with that said. I almost feel like next year would kind of be a rebuild year for them because it's hard to chase that type of success but there are players who can allow you to do so and they just need to find the right ones. But y'all, this was so much fun doing all of these hot topics and hot takes. I would love to do it again.

And Lucy, thank you so much for coming on. We love having you here. And y'all, if we do do it again, we're going to post on our socials, so make sure to look out for it. All right, guys. It was so fun ha Um please come back every you're fabulous. Stop. Th

know. So shout out to Luc coming on the show. That' for this episode of Good presented by draft kings, crown is yours and for al be back next week. As alw by draft kings draft kings And for all of you, we wi as always, we are two tim and thursdays we drop no we are, we're bringing th

sports and women's basket to make sure you subscrib We take all the fan engag on. Follow good follow sh and we'll catch you next week. She's Lucy. She's Logan. I'm Roz. We're out. Bye, y'all.