The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - Gov. Josh Shapiro Hates The Boston Celtics | Hour 2

Episode Date: July 2, 2026

"Timothy Dalton?" If you love to hate, you'll get along great in Philadelphia. And Governor Josh Shapiro? He loves to hate the Celtics, and he loves to love his Philadelphia sports teams. He stops by to tap back into his days as a sports radio caller and break down the Jaylen Brown trade. Plus, what in the world was that couple doing scaling the Empire State Building? And is Dan a ghoul? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You are listening to the Dan Levitar show in partnership with the Drafkin Sports app. Now live in all 50 states. All right, good job by the guest bookers. We've got the 48th governor of Pennsylvania with us, and it's an exciting time to be a Philadelphia sports fan. You've got World Cup games. You've got the All-Star game, the baseball All-Star game is coming to Philadelphia. And Josh Shapiro used to be, I don't know if he's proud of this or ashamed,

He used to be Josh from Juniata on sports radio when he was a kid. He's a sports radio caller. So Josh from Juniata, your thoughts on the Jalen Brown trade. Oh, man. First off, guys, cool to be with you. What a great day to be a Sixers fan. And by the way, I'm a guy who lived through about 50 years, maybe 40 years or so, of Danny Aange and the Celtics,

screwing us every single time there was an NBA trade. We always ended up on the short end of the deal. And now we did to the Celtics what they've done to us for decades. Welcome to Philly, Jalen Brown. You're going to love it here. We couldn't be more pumped. See, that was nice of you. But in the emotion of the moment, you tweeted, yeah, welcome to Philly, J.B.

Sixers get way better. And as a bonus, the Celtics got worse. So a little bit of hatred in there for Boston. Oh, no, no, no. I need to correct you. There's not a little bit of hatred. There is a lot of bit of hatred. I mean, I grew up.

My parents, we like this guy. We love hate. It's a good platform. Good platform. By the way, if you love hate, if you love hate, you'll get along great in Philly. Because, look, I grew up. My parents taught me to love thy neighbor except for Celtics fans and Cowboys fans. I mean, those were the two lines we would never, ever cross.

And I got to tell you, to see the Celtics, I mean, basically to a fire sale, to me, this is private equity ball at its worst. And we ultimately came out on the much better end of that stick. I'm going to give you a very difficult question that has nine alternatives. You can only pick one. You've got to pick wisely. There is only one thing that can happen next. Where are you on which you want to happen the most? The Eagles win the Super Bowl.

The Sixers win the title. The Philadelphia Union win the MLS Cup. The Pirates win the World Series. The Phillies win the World Series. The Flyers win the Stanley Cup. The Penguins win the Stanley Cup. Team USA wins the World Cup or the Steelers win the Super Bowl. I mean, guys, you're like asking me to choose between my kids.

I can't do that. That's correct. Come on, sports radio caller. Come on, you're speaking like the governor. You are not speaking like you're on the car phone. Make a choice with conviction. Hold on. If I were speaking like the governor, I'd be like,

Rob Lowe in that NFL umpire hat when he was at a game. No, no, no, I pick favorites, but you're asking me to choose between all these favorites. I mean, look, I guess I'm a four-for-four Philly sports fan, so I'd probably argue that Sixers winning the title, because I'm just a crazed Sixers fan, but as a proud patriotic American, let me tell you something. If Team USA could win the World Cup, and we've already gone, what have we gone further, I guess 2002, we won a another match, but that would be an extraordinary thing for America. So if I'm putting my proud patriotic American hat on, I'd go Team USA with the Sixers as a close second.

Okay, when Josh Shapiro was 10, 12 years old, what was his favorite team? Sixers. I mean, no question. Forgive me for interrupting you, but since then, who's the most hated Philadelphia athlete, the one that's called, or not even athlete, it might be Daryl.

Who's the person most likely to make the sport? radio caller spit bile into his, hit into his phone while calling the radio show. I mean, there's a bunch. Look, I like Daryl and I wish him well in the future. But, I mean, we just had so many years of bad deals. You know, Sam Hinky started the process. We tanked for years and years and years. By the way, got a ton of draft picks. And with the exception of Joel and Tyrese, I mean, not a lot to prove for that. Remember, we're talking about. and Ben Simmons and Nerrell O'Kefour. I mean, these were awful picks. Markell Fultz, right. I mean, we literally, this is where Boston got it over on us.

We traded up for the privilege of not taking Jason Tatum so we could take Markell Fultz. We literally gave something to Boston so they could take Tatum, who, as much as I hit the Celtics, you got to respect him. I mean, he is a hell of a hell of a play. You don't have to. You don't have to if you don't want to. You don't have to. Governor, you got Jalen Brown in return. But if someone told you yesterday, the Sixers are just getting rid of Paul George, you're getting nothing in return.

Would you have been good with that? Yeah, I would have just, I mean, fire sale for Paul George. It's just, I mean, we went, look, I mean, part of the bad deals that were made is we gave Tobias Harris, who, by the way, wonderful guy, good player. we gave him a max contract. So we were sort of stuck with that for five years. And then, you know, they kind of looked for the shiny object last offseason. And there was Paul George. So let's give him a max.

So we finally come out of the max. We had a little bit of flexibility. And then we went right back into it with Paul George, who, I mean, what, he missed half the season because he took something he wasn't supposed to take, missed another quarter of the season because he was injured. I mean, he was a good player years and years ago. not what the Sixers need. Look, I think we're exciting. I mean, you've got Maxie and Vijay,

which is arguably one of the top two or three backcorts in the entire league. You just added Phelan, who's, I think, a really, he's got a lot of skills, really athletic, plays longer than he really is. He knows what he's talking about. He's a sports radio caller. He's been, so what age were you calling sports radio?

When did you start doing this? Probably, I mean, I remember listening, on my little mini boom box in my bedroom, probably when I was, you know, six, seven, eight years old. I think my parents let me start calling in when I was 11, 12, something like that. And I still remember the thrill I got when I got through and I got to make my point.

And that was a big deal. And I still, you know, when I need to kind of decompress and unwind and have a minute, which is not that often, throw on sports radio, listen to what everybody's talking about. And, you know, and weigh in where I can't. More thrilling, you have to pick one. The first time you got in on a call or when you became governor. Dude, that's a close call.

I mean, so probably governor. I'd say like birth of my children, marriage, governor, getting into sports radio, getting, you know, picked up on a call for sports radio. So help me, walk me through the disentanglement of all of these feelings. You've attended how many World Cup games right now so far in Philadelphia? I think three, two or three. Okay. And we got another one on July 4th.

So walk me through the fact that FIFA is the most corrupt organization in sports history. The World Cup is being hosted by the most corrupt administration in the history of the U.S. government. And it's been really fun watching all of these people come together, disentangle all of that when Trump gets credit for some of this and is holding up the trophy. with the corrupt organization at the end and handing it out. Yeah. You know, here's how I look at it.

I mean, obviously, you know, I've got profound differences from the president. And I do believe that he's been an agent of chaos and cruelty and corruption. But I believe that this is a moment that is so much bigger than him, not just the World Cup, but as we celebrate 250 years of the greatest nation on the face of the earth, I don't believe that patriotism should be personal or partisan. And similarly, I don't think sports should be partisan or political. I think one of the beautiful things I see, whether it's at a World Cup game or it's, you know, at a birds game or any other, you know, game is you've got people from all different walks of life with different political views, different, you know, different visions for what they want in our country. Sit and side by side in the stands, cheering for their team.

or if you're a real Philly fan cheering against the other team that's out there. But the politics and the differences in the division that Trump likes to stoke every day, it just sort of melts away. And I think that's a beautiful thing about sports. And guys, I would argue there aren't too many things left in our society where you can melt away those differences. I think sports is one. I think food is another.

Music is another. It just kind of allows us to come together and enjoy each other's company without. the heaviness that exists in our politics today. A couple of quick questions and answers rapid fire. Messi or Rinaldo? Messy. I can tell you why or I could just give you a quick answer. That's okay.

No, just quick opinions. Yay or nay shootouts, penalty shootouts. Yay or nay. Oh, yay, for sure. Hydration breaks. Yay or nay. I mean, it's probably just more of an excuse for FIFA to make money in a commercial break.

It's hot where these guys are playing. Let him drink. Cockfighting on the White House lawn. Yay or nay? Nay, but who knows? There's no bottom anymore for him. Oh, so you think it might go from UFC to cockfighting? Actual. No, no, I don't know. What is this?

It's like that Seinfeld episode when Kramer was cockfighting. Remember that one? Little Jerry. Yeah. You said yesterday that everything needs to be on the table when it comes to reforming the Supreme Court, what is it that you'd like to see done? Yeah, I was just making a broader point. I think our government is in real need of reform, and I think we need to pass an anti-corruption

law or amendment to our Constitution. We've got 27 other amendments. I think we need a 28th. You know, our framers who did their work right down the street here, they were deeply concerned about power being accumulated in the hands of one, in the hands of an executive. And they tried to set up these guardrails to protect the public from an all too powerful executive. Remember, we had just declared our independence from a king. And so I would argue that our framers did not imagine that we would have a president engaged in corruption at the level that this one is.

And so I think we need to build some guardrails around that. Whether it's a law or whether it's amendment to the Constitution, I think that's got to be on the table. I'm going to ask you basically the opposite of the question that is making you pick between your children. When you think of the things that are front of mind for you on behalf of the American people, the thing most likely to piss you off the most about the present state of things is blank. A system that Fs over good people who are working hard to get by, but it's just rigged against them. no matter how hard they work, no matter how ethical they are, no matter how much they act with integrity,

they just get absolutely screwed in the system because it's rigged against them. Governor, appreciate the time. Congratulations. Any final thoughts here that you want us to have on the Jalen Brown trade? I want to know sort of if it makes you happier to get Jalen Brown or if it makes you happier to screw the Celtics if you had to. I will say it's a toss up, man. I was actually in a meeting with a member.

of my team who is a Celtics fan. And to be clear, I've tried to fire him, but he's just too damn good at what he does. So they won't let me fire him for being a Celtics fan. Apparently, it's not an approved reason with HR. But anyway, as the news broke, I could see his face drop. And I just perked up in my chair and started smiling. And we sort of had it out there.

So I will tell you that my first instinct was to go hard after the Celtics fan. And then when I settled in, I thought about how good the Sixers were going to be. That brought me joy. So I guess seeing the Celtics, you know, suffer maybe brought me more initial joy. Put us next to you when the news is arriving. Like where and how is this happening? What are the pertinent details as to how it is you learn that you are fleecing the Celtics? Sitting around my conference table, teams with me, working on some important matter.

And I looked down at my phone and my 17-year-old son, Max, texted me all caps. Oh, my God, we got J.B. And honestly, I mean, that really wasn't on our radar. So I wasn't exactly sure who J.B. was. And then he added Jalen Brown. And, you know, there we went. Congratulations, sir. Thank you for being on with us.

We appreciate you making the time on short notice. Hey, I appreciate you guys. And sincerely, you talk sports every day in a way that is a real universal language. It brings people together. And I appreciate the fact that you do that every day. Not just as a sports fan, but as an American. So thank you guys. Thank you guys. Appreciate that. Greg and Zaz especially are very thankful. You guys are unity makers, the two of you. Damn right. Dan Levitar. Can't trade Marino. Nice hat. Nice hat. It's what he's most known for. It's not like I'm holding on to it.

Greg Cody. Nice hat. They were nine and two. But it's Marino. And then the next time we saw Marino after Greg Cody trade him, he threw for five touchdowns. And he was Dan the man on the cover of Sport Joe's trade. You can't trade Marino. Nice head, asshole.

This is the Dan Levitator show. I wanted to get to a different story and we will circle back around. I like him. I do know. Yeah. I mean, he is very good. good at being likable. That's how people get elected sometimes. Yeah. The story that I wanted to talk about with you guys because it's something that I will never understand, okay? The people who are

flippant about life while trying to make videos as influencers that sometimes risk their life in order to get whatever the shot is of you doing the dangerous thing. We have a new Netflix movie coming out and this couple is a couple of high climbers and they met and are getting married at the top of the Empire State Building. Everything I'm watching here makes me a little bit sick to my stomach because they are at the very top of what is happening at the top of the Empire State Building and I have a number of questions about this. What is the penalty for this? Because they were arrested. How big of a crime is this? They are promoting. their movie and we should promote their movie because whether it's a crime or not, I do believe it is a successful

advertising venture for them to be arrested while doing this. You can't see from their vantage point how high that is, but that makes me a little bit nauseated just watching it. I don't know how I'm I'm not terribly afraid of heights, but those heights and things like that are something that is going to make me queasy every time and also summons for me a bit of anger that I'm not used to when people are this flippant about life no matter how good they are at the act of climbing. What is the banner they're holding? Is it the name of their film? It's clearly watched the Greg Cody show featuring Greg Cody, as you guys can see. Like it's something that's fairly obviously right there on the banner. But what is these people? What is the penalty for this? They

are criminals. They have been arrested. Oh, come on. And I'm sure that they've been arrested many times. How many times have there been, how many times have there been arrests and what pertinent information can you guys give me on how bad of a crime this is? And how bad of a crime do you think it should be? Like when you think of the danger in this, the peril is mostly to them, although if they were to fall from that height and fall on somebody,

they would also harm somebody. Yeah, they could fall on somebody. What do you mean? They could. Fall on somebody. Yeah. What do you mean? If you fall from that height, who knows where you're going to land? Yeah. You can, yes, you can fall on somebody from that height.

You are a danger to others, not just yourself at that height. Yeah. Pitch clock does air today. That's really impressive that they put that flag up there. Yeah. Pitch clock airs later today after Linda Cohn. What information can you give me on this, Jeremy? All right.

So these two do a thing called rooftoping, which is a hobby that they were both doing when they first met in 2016. So they're Russians named Yvonne Bjorkas. And yeah, that's Angela Nikolao. And so they met in 2016. Their first date was climbing China's tallest incomplete skyscraper, which was 1,957 feet high called the Golden Finance. Yeah, so they skipped cocktail hour, actually, to do it, is what it said.

And so their documentary came out in 2024. So they've been doing this together for years. They didn't know they were going to end up together, but they were both part of this community for this specific thing, climbing the Empire State Building to ultimately get engaged and put a sign out there, which I'll get the details on that and what it actually said in just a moment. They were charged with burglary, which under state law means entering or remaining in a building with the intent to commit a crime, as well as reckless endangerment, criminal mischief, criminal tampering, criminal trespass, and other counts. but seemingly this is the type of thing they're doing all the time and what's crazy about it is there's all of this unbelievable video

but you can then like see them get engaged and you can see Angela taking photos from up there that they're ultimately posting from up there of the engagement ring with the entire cityscape in the background and I believe what that said was when the power of love

beats the love of power the world will no peace that's what that's the message they Look at that shot, Dan. This is impressive. These people are cool as hell. Does this not happen to you guys where it hurts your stomach? It makes my leg shape.

I have a physical. I have a physical pain in my stomach watching this because of how flippant about life is. I don't know. Have you guys watched any of these videos where people sometimes swim under ice and go from one place where they have a hole to another place far away? there's a hole and they'll drown if they don't get there. Like these kinds of videos, they go viral because of the danger involved in them. And very often, influencers die doing this stuff in pursuit of that. And I'm not kidding you.

When I tell you, the nausea is real in my stomach in ways that are very rare for me in anything that's video related or anything that's televised, like not even claustrophobic type of things of people like drowning cave diving or what is that deep dive called that you go into the deepest of water and you hold your breath without no but without tanks

it's got a name where you're doing free diving breathless diving diving deep yeah diving stupidly yes free diving free diving deeply which which of the videos is most likely to give you the nausea

that I am talking about because another one that does it for me is, and you've heard me talk about this before, the proposal, the squirrel suits that people dive from cliffs on with the GoPro and they need

to know that it's going to work the first time that they do it, the very first time that people are doing that. You're ready, let's do it. It seems to me like a real insanity. What is that, base jumping? No, that's not base jumping. I don't think the squirrel suits are called, is it called Base jumping? That also looks terrified. Isn't that in point straight part two? When you run from a,

like a platform and you throw your own parachute in the air. That's, that's base jumping. You're talking about the squirrel suits. Yeah, squirrel jumping. It's not squirrel jumping. It's not called squirrel jumping. I hate it. I don't know why it's called the squirrel suit. Do you guys have anything on the internet that does this to you in terms of just instant nausea? You will turn away. You are worried that you are about to watch a snuff. film. Parkour high up. I don't hate it. When they're like jumping from building to building way up. No, not for me.

I hate cliff diving. Because when you're diving off a cliff into the water, how can you know that there aren't rocks that you're diving into that are four feet under the water? Probably check before. Yeah, you don't think they... Give it a look. Survee. Yeah, even if they check, though,

what if you make a mistake and you don't dive out quite as far as you wanted to? I think the whole idea of thrill seeking is kind of damn if I'm being on. You were saying you can't see four feet under the water. I got caught in an algorithm here recently. You guys are going to find this funny because it's so random.

Ghost containers. All of those cargo ships that are going across the ocean, many of them fail to get there. Many of them lose shipping containers. You guys are named the shipping container. Lose shipping containers, some of which sink, but some of which don't get caught on radar

as they're sort of floating, just a little bit under the surface and boats hit them all the time, these floating containers that are a little bit under the water. Like the bottom of our ocean is filled with these shipping containers that don't actually make it across the sea. Some of them have cars in them and just absurdities in them, but ghost containers are out there floating around. You mentioned a second ago, Chris, you mentioned parkour,

and it made me think, I don't know which of the Bond movies this was with Daniel Craig, but the first 10 minutes of one of these movies that involve parkour and stunts is among the best first 10 minutes of a movie I've ever seen of any kind. I don't remember what the name of the Daniel Craig Bond movie was, but do you guys know what I'm talking about? It's the first 10 minutes of a chase scene that involves parkour around a construction site that is as good an opening to a movie, an action movie, as I've ever seen.

I haven't seen the Bond movies. You know that. It's crazy to me. I've never seen one either. That you guys consider yourself movie people and you don't know the movie I'm talking about. Was it Casino Royale? I think so. It's 20 years ago.

Yeah, but it's a Bond movie. Like, it's 20 years ago. That's cool. You see Bottoms? Put it on the poll at Lebitard Show. Please, are you obligated if you're a movie guy to know. something about the Bond movies. Because even, I'm guessing, even

Greg Cody, who famously knows nothing about the movies, do you think you can name four bonds? It's possible. Let's see if Greg Cody can name four bonds. Have there been more than four bonds? Is four the number that there have been?

I think four is the number that there's been, right? So let's see if you can name all the bondses. James, Barry, Bobby. Let me see if I can come up with The fourth one. U.S.

bonds. U.S.S. bonds. U.S.S. bonds. Jeremy Bonderman? American Bonds. Do you think you can name any of the... Sean Connery. That's the bond I grew up in.

The black and white James Bond. There have only been white bonds. I know, but they weren't black and white back then. What are there other names? James? Sean Connery and who else? Who are the recent ones? Well, you've got another old one you haven't named, Roger Moore.

Roger Moore. I just named one of them in Casino Royale. Do you remember that name? I wasn't listening. Okay, Sean Connery and Roger Moore, somebody feed me another name in my ear. Daniel Craig. Daniel Craig, I'd never heard of him. Pierce Brosnan?

Yeah, I don't recognize him as a bond. Timothy Dalton. Oh, there are five bondses. Timothy Dalton? Yeah. That's the proper response. Put it on the poll at Levitard show. Timothy Dalton, question mark, yes or no?

Yeah, because it's the worst. It's universally considered the worst of the bonds is. I think Connery and Moore and then it went downhill as a franchise, in my opinion. Down Levitar! Can't wait for 39. Yeah, I can't either. 40 comes first. Do you know what 40 is yet?

Not yet. What are we doing? Craig, did you just laugh? Did you just laugh out loud at something Lewis said? in your ear. Greg Cody. Yes. I couldn't help it.

It was funny. Thanks, Louis. Gagging the goose. Of course. Choking the frog. I mean, there's a million of them. Half of them would sound dirty if we keep doing it. This is the Dan Levitator show.

What would you guys say, as I ask you, if you fancy yourself movie guys, what would you say, best five or ten minutes of a movie to start ever? Like if you had to pick from whatever it is you put on the Mount Rushmore. I'm doing just action movies. That's all I'm doing here. Dark night. Yeah, the beginning of Dark Night's pretty great. Yep.

Raiders of the Lost Ark was good. Going to old school. You're going to a movie in 1982. Air Bud. Wizard of Oz. Wizard of Oz? Yeah. Dynamic beginning.

Put it on the poll at Lebitard show. Was the Wizard of Oz one of the greatest 10-minute openings in the the history of movies, yes or no. You guys continue to search the internet for me on any neutral, credible person who is making the argument on behalf of the Celtics did not do a dumb thing. I'm not even looking for someone that's saying it's a smart thing. I'm not even looking for someone who's defending it. I'm just looking for anyone in media or in opinion who is having a counter opinion when we can't, says, agree on anything in America today. You will get 30% polling on things that are, by almost any measure throughout the history of

America, obviously un-American. You will get 30% of the people who will say they are down with the un-American thing. Here you have almost, what seems to me, universal consensus, not just from Boston fans, the universal consensus is. is Boston got robbed. How did that happen in any sane world? It's the only opinion anyone has, and I just can't believe it. I don't understand the explanation out there that this was a salary dump. You know, it's like it's a directive from the new ownership with Boston.

It's a salary dump. They tried to acquire Janus. Like, how is it a sal-they offered to trade Jalen Brown and bring back Janus, who's going to cost them more money, you know, and an extension as well. So I don't understand why people are calling it a salary dump. They had to get rid of Jalen Brown, or they felt they had to get rid of Jalen Brown. I think it's because of internal issues. And also they soured the relationship by trying to offer him and trade. And they had to get rid of him. But I just don't understand why, oh, they had to get off his money. They were trying to acquire Yonis. Yeah. And I don't understand

why Jalen Brown would take any heat for this. But, you know, ever since LeBron in 2010, maybe he started it. Big name players have been able to leverage their own careers by getting out of contracts and by instigating trades. And Jalen Brown is just the latest one. I don't think the Celtics had any choice but to trade them and the market for them just wasn't what they thought, so they did the best they could. I'm probably more pro-Brad Stevens here than anybody else because I give them a little bit of credit for being smart and making the best deal he could. I wanted to ask you guys something that has resulted in me coming under some criticism over the last couple of days because the very uncomfortable subject matter of Chris Johnson, retired NFL player, goes on Good Morning America and decides to announce to the world bravely that he has ALS. And in announcing this, he needs a machine to help him with the words because ALS is a really awful, awful prison.

The criticism was really harsh here. A fellow journalist here called me a ghoul because great insult, by the way. Goal is just an exceptional insult. Put on the poll at Lebitard show, is Gool an exceptional? is calling someone a ghoul an exceptional insult? What is a ghoul? Well, I think of it as sort of a monster that is ghostish, but also ogreish, right in the middle on the spectrum between ghost and ogre, and somebody who's hard to look at, and somebody who is creepy.

But it's a good, can you get me the textbook definition for a ghoul? Because I'm just doing something off of the top of my head, but I don't actually know what the textbook definition is. I would guess that it's tantamount to the living, dead, consuming other people. Well, that's zombie. I don't think is it put on the poll at Levitard show is a zombie a ghoul. I think they're related. I would like to hear the criticism because I do think some of the criticisms of how we approach that were totally fair. Oh, I think a lot of criticism of me in general is fair.

And this allows me actually to go back for a second and talk about some of the Diana Rusini stuff. So, because I know that this is something that people are now holding up whenever they think sanctimonious or doing anything that they find an opening to criticize me on, they're like, you're being a hypocrite here. You weren't willing to talk about that. I wouldn't say it's hypocrisy. I would say it would be inconsistent. If you want to call me that, I would also say it'd be apples to apples if Diana Rusini was across from me, and I wasn't asking her any of the questions that you want to know about, because I believe in an interview, the responsibility that the host have first and foremost is not to the guests. It's to the audience. That's what I believe. You don't

have to believe it. But when it comes to specifically, your criticism of me on how I've discussed or have not discussed the Rossini thing, I should let you know. And I don't say this actually with ego, but I do say it to defend my position. I haven't done everything I have done professionally in my life to get to this point in my life and have anyone or anything dictate for me what I say, how I say or what I'm saying it about, including whatever you believe journalism standards are, or whatever I believe journalism standards are. Some people know some of this, only the closest to me. I did damage that hurt me to my friendship with Ricky Williams because the journalist in me chose to do journalism in a way that the friend in me still wears with hurt. Ricky thinks it was

better for his life and is thankful, and I'm grateful for that. But in making that choice of choosing journalism over a friend, I said, I'm going to be careful about that one for the rest of my life because of how it scarred me. And so it's fair criticism to say, Dan, you should talk about Rucini. It's a consequence of me saying, no, I will not. Because everyone is saying for me how wrong it is, you don't need me adding to that pile of criticism to make my friend's life a little bit worse. and if you want to criticize that, totally understand. It's a consequence, price, tax on doing business. I get it.

You want to hold it against me for the rest of my life? Totally understandable. I make my decisions with my conviction. I live with them. There are consequences. In this particular case, the criticism comes from watching something that is deeply uncomfortable for anybody to watch. And so the helplessness of all of that, I understand why people wouldn't want to ask Chris John any more questions other than just giving him the platform and letting him say what he wants,

how it is that he wants to say it. But if you believe that your responsibility is to the audience first, not to the guest, it seems to me reasonable, not ghoulish, to also point out in your preparation, hey, Chris Johnson, either do you think football did this to you, or do you regret football doing something like this to you when the science says that football players are four times more likely to get ALS. So you tell me, Mike, how I should feel about the criticism because it doesn't, the criticism does not bother me because it's a question I, as an audience member, wanted, asked, because I wanted to, I was curious about what his answer was. And when you're talking about somebody who's on Good

Morning America, not because he has ALS, but because he's a football player. Like, he was not on Good Morning America because he has ALS. He was on Good Morning America because he's a football player who has ALS. He's famous for being a football player. They don't interview random non-famous people about ALS. They're talking to a football player. It's a question I wanted to ask, but I understand if people thought it wasn't the time for it, the place for it, and if they think I'm a ghoul. I agree with all those things, too, even, especially the ghoul part. Dan, so you want, you want to hear that question asked of Chris Johnson because you're curious about his perspective, because you're certainly not curious about the science.

You feel pretty comfortable in stating football contributed to this because look at very recent history and what we already know. So you're kind of curious what he has to say because it's a morbid curiosity. You want to know how he feels about the choices he made in life, and that's a bit of rubbernecking in that moment. And while you're asking important questions, I think those questions could have and should have waited. I think the initial thing that we all should feel in that moment is compassion. I do think that we should probably understand that maybe some of those topics weren't touched on in all

likelihood because Chris Johnson himself did not want to touch on them. And he chose to tell us his story. He could have chose to live in complete anonymity and privacy like he had been. And you would never know the answer to that question. We don't have to be first every time on the journalism angle. And while you are certainly right to ask those questions and ABC, ESPN, Disney are worthy of criticism in that moment. That's not necessarily the arrangement there when someone is going through something tragic. I think we should have been probably more compassionate than critical, at least early on. I think that there's no right answer here.

I also think that it's not clear that CTE leads to ALS. Some think there's strong evidence linking it, but it's not clear. I probably would not have asked it, but on the other hand, I see why it would be asked because Chris Johnson is, by appearing on national TV, he's sort of volunteering himself as a spokesman for ALS suffers. But explain to me, though, the absolutism here on I have to choose between the two things as if they can't coexist. Why can't it be, I'm not criticizing Chris Johnson here. Why can't it be both compassionate and wanting something? else from the interview without it necessarily being taken as I'm ripping Michael Strahan or I don't even want hard questions ask.

I just want, I do have a question. But you're asking why can't it be that? Because you yourself didn't present it that way. Oh no, I disagree. Here's why I disagree. Here's why I disagree. The people criticizing me are taking an aggregated TikTok video of how it is they consume their news now and are ignoring that this show has been talking about ALS more

than any in the country for the last couple of weeks. There's not an absence of context here. Even in that show, we spent a lot of time before the criticism talking about the compassionate part and furthermore. It's not my point. Jeff Perlman made it and I'm like, huh, he's got a point, but it's not even my point. I'm just looking at it, listening to it, and I'm like, oh, I hadn't considered that. And so then I replay it.

It gets picked up. It's the controversial thing. And now here we go. The compassion is not lacking from me in it or while we're doing it. The compassion is lacking in the way it gets aggregated and then turns into an argument because people feel helpless about and uncomfortable about everyone, everything they're seeing. And it's super easy to go after the journalists who are having and also this point over here. A ghoul is a legendary evil being that robs graves and feeds on corpses, while a zombie is a willless and speechless human that's been supernaturally reanimated. I just want to be abundantly clear.

I, the journalist, am the victim here. Thank you.