The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - Hour 1: Anatomy of a Dog

Episode Date: March 8, 2024

The crew ends their day before a hodgepodge of Meadowlark content with some Oscars analysis. Then, it's Oddball's favorite story time with NBA veteran Eddie Johnson! Amin and Charlotte sit with the always entertaining and charismatic Phoenix Suns' broadcaster and host of SiriusXM's "NBA Today" to hear about the legendary players and coaches that helped shape his career and how the NBA greats changed the game. Plus, Pablo Torre Finds Out asks us "What can we learn from the power-grab by NFL prodigy Caleb Williams and his stage dad?" Also, Uncle Dennis and giant babies. And finally, Tony is back with Conner Burks from The MMA Hour to preview UFC 299. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You're listening to Giraffe Kings Network. This is the Don Lebatore Show with the Stugatz Podcast. In a weekend filled with powerful people in Hollywood, we've got the power here in Miami, live Sunday at 4 p.m. with Ben Lyons, myself and Adnan Verk, and all of you from Metal Arc will be joining us. Lucy, you're coming. You're dressing up.

They're gonna win the Big Ten Tournament. What are you worried about? They're gonna be fine. I don't like the way you're saying that. You might be a genie, cause I don't know you that well, Ben. They're playing that school in Ohio, going to be fine. I don't like the way you're saying that. You might be a gink. I don't know you that well, Ben. They're playing that school in Ohio. You'll be fine. Just join us at lebatardaf.com. It's going to be live on the YouTube lebatard network,

but go to lebatardaf.com right now and you can fill out a ballot. And if you beat me in the ballot, you have a chance to get a really cool prize. And if you win the whole bracket, but then you've got to beat thousands and thousands of people. I hate filling out these Oscar brackets because Everyone if you want to win you go with what you think the consensus is but I have to go against my own convictions So for a best picture winner I'm going with Oppenheimer when I don't actually think it's the best picture of the year But you have to say what will win not what should win. Yeah, that's the tough part with these brackets. I hate that, though.

You want to say who you think should win. I want to flash my conviction. Nominate the dog from Anatomy of a Fall. How did they shoot that scene with the dog? That was horrible. Not going to spoil it for you, but you guys need to watch this movie before Sunday. How do you do that?

Like that is incredible directly. What's the name of the movie? Anatomy of a Fall. Oh yeah, Molly and me. We need to make a rule here before we go, before we get here Sunday. What is the spoiler rule on Oscar Sunday? I feel like Barbie and Oppenheimer at this point,

you can spoil away. Spoiler. But Anatomy of a Fall, you can't. But it's Oscar Sunday. You can't do that with American fiction. There's so many movies that people haven't gotten around to. There are so many movies that people are going to be learning about for the first time when they tune into this broadcast. Yeah, you have to be sensitive to that, right? It's not safe to assume that everyone has seen everything. You have to kind of... I think

it's safe to assume that no one has seen everything but us. That's probably, yeah, that's a good assumption. And that's how you'd want when you're hosting an Academy Awards. You've really watched everything. Everything that has been nominated from costume design I'm in work films. I'm embarrassed on my short film knowledge this year. I've only seen a handful The short docs and and the the short animated ones. I'm hoping to find a theater here in Miami over the week for you Don't be there's one documentary feature. I haven't seen to kill a tiger That has not been I've not been able to find that and there's one documentary feature. I haven't seen to kill a tiger That has not been I've not been able to find that and there's one International feature film I've not seen in that's EO Capitano other than that. I've seen everything

Including the creator Godzilla like all of the stuff in the various categories Shorts because there's a theater in you say the visual effects in the creator were dazzling So I'm not a big I'm not telling you where I went on that category because that is a category that will separate winners from losers. That is one of the tough ones. There's so many categories when you guys fill out your ballot. Production design. How about best actress? Is it Lily? Is it Emma? Could it be Sandra? She was terrisal. Again, we've been talking a lot of Anatomy of the Fall. I think, look, if you spoke multiple languages in your role in that category, in my mind, you're considered a favorite.

So Lily or Sandra? She's in Zone of Interest as well, did you know that? Really? Have I hear Sandra? Reprenounced it. Hewlett? And it's also unusual to have a film that is hands down the favorite to win Best Picture that has to deal with fatigue. It's been eight months or whatever since Oppenheimer came out.

Oftentimes you have a Best Picture nominee or a film that wins Best Picture being released in the fall that comes to Toronto or something like that. My whole conspiracy theory is we're at a point right now where we're trying to save cinemas and actually going to the movie and Oppenheimer and Barbie did so much with that once shared release date

to bring people back in the movies and both those movies delivered, both commercially and critically. I think it's probably, the conspiracy theory I'm running with is, it's not just because it's an excellent movie, but it's almost in everybody's best interest, if you reward the picture that everybody went to go see.

Also pretty amazing though, if you think about it, that a film about a physicist in the 1940s is an international phenomenon. Right? Even the actor. It's not a superhero, after the commercials, you would think. That's still my favorite revelation from the year. As you went to the movie theater,

thinking that Oppenheimer was a part of the MCU. He might as well have been, since he did create a bomb that should be part of a comic book. I want to close this by calling out Lucy and International Women's Day and Barbie as what is the most surprising and greatest film of the year because it delivered a message to both boys, girls, men, and women about the power

and the equality that should exist, the skill, the love, the beauty. And if you haven't seen Barbie yet, if you're going to choose one movie and you haven't seen any Oscar movie before our show Sunday, I'm actually going to suggest you close your week and go see Barbie. I think it's a perfect movie. It touches on every human emotion. It's a visual spectacle, obviously It's a throwback to those depression era musicals that kept Hollywood afloat in the 30s and 40s

You have great performances top to bottom. I think seven hours of this we get Sunday seven hours Don't spoil it up. I don't know but tell me which of the two songs you think might actually win best original song I'm not willing to tell you but sinious Hey friends, it's Mike Ryan and a lot has changed over the years songs you think might actually win Best Original Song? I'm not willing to tell you, but, Sineas? Hey friends, it's Mike Ryan and a lot has changed over the years. But one thing that hasn't, the great and dependable taste of Miller Lite. It was the original Lite beer and to this day, it is still the best one. Miller Lite has more of the taste that you want and less of the stuff that you don't. I was at a baseball game, I love college baseball, especially this time of year.

And thank goodness they had Miller Lite on tap. I had a Miller Lite and you know what I did? I have to do this. Contractually, I take that first sip and then I look around. Mmm, taste buds, electrified. Yeah, Miller Lite, you were always the right call. And that's why I love you so much. Then I turned to my friend and I had a great conversation. Oh, Miller Lite, you grease the rails for a good conversation better than anybody. I love you,

Miller Lite. You keep everything so simple. Times change, but you can always enjoy the great taste of Miller Lite. Tastes like Miller Time. To get Miller Lite delivered right to your door, visit MillerLite.com slash Dan, or you can pretty much find it anywhere that sells beer. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 96 calories per 12 ounces. Don Lebatard. Amino Hassan. Stugatz. Amino Hassan.

This is the Don Lebatard Show with the Stugatz. I am Eddie Johnson and this is Storytime. So Eddie, you played for Cotton Fit Simmonds, you played for Larry Brown, George Carl, Rudy Tom Donovan, some of the greatest coaches. You also played with Reggie Miller, you played with Hakeem Elijah one, you played with Charles Barkley, you played with Gary Payton and Sean Kent.

Larry Johnson, a lot of them were on it. That's right, when you were in Charlotte, including Del Curry and a small child. They're watching stuff, shoot at the other end. Yeah. I always find that players that played in a lot of different places, and played with a lot of different types of personalities,

have a very unique perspective on the game in a way that a guy who may, like on paper, have a greater career than yours but played in one place, doesn't. They don't have that kind of perspective. What is it about playing for all those different coaches and all those different great, playing with those different great players

has helped you in terms of, like, understanding the game? The first thing is that it challenged me to obviously make adjustments. Mm-hmm. You know, because each team has playbooks less like this. Right. And so now you go to a new team, you got to immediately like earn the respect of everybody, one,

but most importantly the coach, because it's about minutes. Like athletes will tell you, it's about minutes. Like the will tell you, it's about minutes. Like the money is great, all of that, but we crave is minutes. We wanna play and then everything else is under control. So now we'll be able to get the money. But when a coach controls your minutes, then that puts you in a tough situation.

And so for me, when I would go to these different coaches and these different teams, I would study these coaches. I already knew going in what they ran. I was a guy that had game tapes. I have game tapes right now in storage of probably 80% of the games I played in the NBA. So I got like, I played in over, well, the 1200 games. I'm telling you, I have a ton of tapes.

It's amazing. And I'll go on storage every now and then, pull them out and look at them. And guys were like, hey man, would you get that tape for that game and all that, yeah. Because they used to laugh at me. But one of the reasons I did it is because,

one, I wanted to study guys and two, I would watch games and watch what they ran and all of that. So if I did, because I knew I was gonna get traded. I knew that I would not play for one team my entire career. I knew that. And so because of knowing that, I wanted to always be in front of it

and understand these coaches, know the history of the game. Like on my radio show, Serious Ex-M, we talk about the history of the game all the time. And I think that's why I have that job, because I can just regurgitate stuff, but it's only because I studied it. It's not like something that just pops in my head. And so all these coaches were so different,

but they were the same. They just wanted to motivate you in certain weird ways and certain dynamics Like I told you cotton told me get off the bus your way That spurred me to really concentrate and not get caught up into an individual Situation and get away from the team. I that made me understand that And in matter of fact, after that game, I didn't tell you, he didn't play me for about seven straight games. He didn't play me. And then one day again, he said, are you playing? And then that on, I never changed. And so he just taught me that, you know, and he knew me past my family and so when I went to my next coach

You know, I got traded from from cotton and I had Phil Jackson. I had John I had Bill was it John McKinney. No Bill McKinney. Well the McKinney McKinney That was right after his accident right and I had him and then I go to Seattle. I had Casey Jones And I had him and then I go to Seattle by a Casey Jones. Right. Casey Jones totally opposite. Right. A cop laid back. Yeah. Always singing. Not a combustible coach and Gary Payton and Sean Kemp

were with young rookies. And I show up. 50 Y five win team I get traded from, and I'm watching Sean Kemp and Gary Payton show up late to practice. I'm watching Gary Payton talking in practice. As a rookie, you never talk. You don't talk when you're a rookie?

No, no, I remember a time when Rookies knew their place. I heard, this is a couple of years ago, someone was telling me, I remember a time when rookies knew their place. This is a couple years ago, someone was telling me, I said, where's the rook at? And they're like, oh, he comes in on the second bus. Oh, the rookie on the second bus was unheard of. And I'm not talking about 100 years ago, what I'm talking about when I worked in the league,

which wasn't that long ago, unheard of. Yeah, yeah. So Gary, Gary. Yeah. And so I told Nate, I said, Nate, I said, does he talk like this all the time? Nate McMillan? Yeah.

I said, he said, yeah, you know, and it wasn't like Gary was out of line. Right. He, we were talking about how to guard certain things and do this, but rookies don't like, you know, so there's something new to me. Right. And I watched them for a few days

and hanging around them and just, you know, and just trying to get to know him. As Rich Kelly taught me. And so once you'd around, he was just, I said, Nate, I'm ready to say something. You gotta back me up. You gotta, you know, I said, I'm ready to say something. You gotta back me up. You gotta, you know, I said, I'm ready to do something. And I'm new to the team.

I'm only a couple of weeks in. So I finally, I said, hey man, he turns and looks at me. I said, would you shut up? And listen, that's Gary. Okay, we all know how Gary is. Gary got too big at that time. He had two big buddies that was part of his entourage

and he do like big linebackers, right? Say, man, be quiet, man, and listen, man. You know, and he turn and he kind of stiffen up. Like not to fight, but just looked at me Who's you thought I said man look just be quiet and listen and so In order to I knew I had the I've always believed like if you're gonna say something negative about somebody I've learned this investment TV. You better come back with about two or three things positive

Because that's gonna create a problem They gonna go back and watch film so I Knew I had this something was gonna happen in the locker room, right? So he comes into the locker room and But even before he can open this mouth Right. I went over and I grabbed I'm like come here man Yeah I went over and I grabbed him. I'm like, come here, man.

Yeah, I said, look, the only reason I did that is because I just think you need to let the veterans talk and then you come in. Like, just let, they been here longer. Let Nate handle it. And then you, you looked at me. I got you, I got you, I got you. You got through it all.

Yeah, because I mean, Gary was like, was face of the franchise. Yeah. He could have went upstairs. You know? Yeah? Yeah, yeah. Get him, man.

You know, it was a rookie. Get this blue guy. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, it's just that kind of stuff that, you know, I've learned, man, over this period of my life that, you know, in all the stories I have, that I can write a book.

You should. I never know. No, I can't. You should. No, I am an author. I have written a book, and I'm actually writing a book now. It's a fictional book. So why you say you can't write a book? You're writing a book, and I'm actually writing a book now. It's a fictional book. So why you say you can't write a book?

You're writing a book? But I'm not writing that thing. Oh, you can't say that thing. Somebody's things can't be written. Can't be written. I'm not, I can't. Because I'll get to writing and I'm like. Yeah.

Yeah. Well. The crazy thing is, so I was thinking about this when you tell the story, you play for Casey Jones, who, like you said, laid back. And then the next coach was George Carl, who was the exact opposite of laid back. How did, what was that transition like for the team?

The funny part is, so Benoit Benjamin had just gotten traded to us. And so Benoit, Agent was Don King. Really? Yeah, yeah. So it is some stories that I will tell. So Benoit, his agent was Don King. And so when he got traded to us, he comes walking into the gym, because he had got there, he had, you know,

got to the team, he got there later, whatever. And I see him come in, and we're at the other end practicing, and I see this entourage of like guys coming behind him. It had to be at least eight dudes. And they all had leather jackets on the same. I'm looking. I'm like, it didn't, you know, I don't bite my tongue on anything.

I'll, and the guys that Tater I play with, they know. So I like, I don kinda walk the other inch, I wanna see what's on the back of these jackets. Mm. As team Benjamin. Oh, come on, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All these dudes walk in,

and I'm like, and they sit in the stands, which George didn't allow that, right? But he didn't say anything. So he comes out there, you know, he meets everybody, all the players and everything and then fine. And then we just, I said, I went up to Nate, I said, well, we're going to have some problems. We're going to have some problems. And George just looked at him and so about a week later, it didn't take George long.

George was very combustible. He had just coached over in Europe, finally got back to the NBA, and he thought he was a player still. And he and Benoit went at it. He started calling each other names, and Benoit started talking about his head, talking about George, how big

George's head was. And George started calling him a fat, you know what? And George was like, want to fight. He was that combustible. But you know what? That interaction, we loved it. The rest of y'all are watching it like, I'm corning out. Because we had a coach that was like us.

Yeah. You know, you could say anything to him. Like he and Gary would go at it, but they loved each other. Like that was George's way of being close to his guys. And we loved it. I mean, so George was a, he's a, he's still talking junk on Twitter.

You know, people just don't realize he's confrontational. Yeah. And, but to me, man, he galvanized our team. He really did. We had opportunities to win. And so George was great. We were watching film with the Scouts. And this is when West Matthews Jr. was in college, right?

And so, you know, we're debating, like, is he like, is he an NBA prospect or not? Like, I don't know, man. He's kind of built like a football player. He's not that great of a shooter. Like, he plays like the four in college. But it's like, when, like, oh, at the same time, like, he's tough. He's a good defensive player. You can teach other stuff in college. It's like, well, at the same time, he's tough, he's a good defensive player. You can teach other stuff in there. Doesn't hurt that he's got the bloodlines, like, because that played in the league. And one of the scouts said, oh, yeah? Who's his dad? And we're just like, his name is Wes Matthews Jr. I'll give you three guesses,

but his dad's name was Don lebatard Stugats And show threes as they chase the nets for the six seed. These five words in his head scream, are we winning games yet? This is the Don Lebatar Show with the Stugats. I want to start with this Caleb Williams story and the story about parenting because Caleb Collar at the Athletic has this story from late last month that sort of helped explain what was happening

where Mina was at the NFL Combine in Indianapolis. Because Caleb Williams not doing stuff there wound up being an enormous story in a way that spoke Dan to topics that you've been covering and talking about forever. Caleb Williams is believed to be the first invitee to the scouting combine to decline to participate in the medical exams. For the medical stuff, I'll be doing the medical stuff, just not here in Indy. I'll be doing it at the team interviews. You know, not 32 teams can draft me. There's only one of me. And so the teams that I go to for my visit, you know, those teams will have the medical and that'll be it. What is that player supposed to do when he actually recognizes the power that he has or at least has a dad who might be a person

who listened to the Dan Lebedtard show? Because when I look at this story and like why is it that Caleb Williams is not doing stuff that many quarterbacks throughout time have done, it all goes back, per the athletic and various reporting to his dad, Carl Williams. And Carl, Mina, Carl Williams' takes on stuff,

they are right out of, if you've been listening to any of the three of us talk about sports, it's like, why is there a draft? A draft is unjust. What about the rookie wage scale? The rookie wage scale is unjust. These deadlines, medical testing, all of this stuff. Carl is the guy, seemingly behind the guy.

And I guess Meena, just you were there at Indie, like how much of this story feels to you like a revolution or something else? Because it feels big to me. If there's a revolutionary aspect to it, or if there's any sort of sea change, I would say this coming from Indie, it's the fact that this has transcended Caleb Williams.

None of the top three quarterbacks did much at the combine. Heck, Jane Daniels wasn't measured, but none of them did the throwing drills. Caleb, I believe, you know, his statement on, he didn't do medicals for every team because the reasoning was, well, not every team's gonna have a shot at me.

Like, if I, when I visit with teams, I'll do the medicals for every team because the reasoning was, well, not every team's gonna have a shot. Like, if I, when I visit with teams, I'll do the medicals. But it was, it went beyond Caleb. You know, you really felt like a sea change with all these top quarterbacks. And that to me feels a little bit different. Now, that's certainly not grabbing your power on the scale of, you know, demanding a trade or asking for equity, which is a huge vest of the story or, you know, questioning the Brookie Wage scale. But it is a small revolution nonetheless. And one that every single personnel person and the combine agent who I talked to

didn't really have a case for why they shouldn't do it this way. Archie Manning a long time ago did this for Eli Manning and wasn't protective. Father was quarterback who wasn't protected as a player when he played in New Orleans and was great and understood how much the body would hurt and was trying to protect his son from ending up with a bad team. I enjoyed at the very end after LeBron James did all the things he did, Tom Brady looking up and saying, wait a minute, I have real power. I don't have to be under the thumb of the Patriot way. It probably

took him about 15 to 16 years before he realized it. So of course, all of this would trickle down in sports to Aaron Rodgers realizing at about 38 or 39. If I go to the Jets, I'm my own economy, I'm my own value system, I should ask for ownership. Of course it's rejected. I think most sports fans don't think of the draft as un-American, the rookie wage scale as un-American, as freedom inhibiting. I think they're so

normalized that what will happen is that Caleb Williams and his father will be demonized for trying to shake the system up. They will be like Uncle Dennis was for Kauai Leonard in asking for the world when he went to the Clippers. So the Uncle Dennis part is a fun. I didn't make that connection before but yes, there is something to the idea of a essentially a guardian being the bad guy here and it the Uncle Dennis story made a it also in the doing of that Saga it kind of took agency away from Kauai Leonard. Like that was the story. It's like Uncle Dennis is doing all he's this like wizard behind the

scenes. He's like making all these demands kind of get coincides. He's kind of get equity. And part of what this reporting athletic is suggesting is that actually like maybe a story inside of the story is how much Caleb Williams does or doesn't want any of this. And so the question about equity, which you'd referenced about like, look, in July, right, there was this story in Sports Business Journal that reported that NFL odors had just voted to prohibit quote, non-family employees from taking equity in teams and quote. And the reason why is because, per the Athletics reporting, Kara Williams, Caleb's dad was broaching the topic with agents. Really like trying to get... The reason, in fact,

Caleb, it seems, didn't hire an agent is because the family, the camp, it's hard to disentangle them for now, they were saying, hey, could you find a way to get us out of the rookie wage scale? Like, can you actually find loopholes and no, so they didn't hire an agent? Which is, you know, again, savvy if nothing else. Does he need to pay someone whatever it is? It's two out of five percent. I can't remember for the players now to negotiate a deal that's already set in stone. It doesn't, I mean, like that to me makes the most sense out of any of this,

although when you go against the agents, and we saw this with Lamar Jackson, we've seen this with other players who have chosen to represent themselves. Because the agents talk to reporters, that means that your way of doing things will be questioned. Okay. So as far as the demonization, which Dan talked about, I think it's worth separating two things here.

One is the idea of Kayla Williams or any other player rejecting the draft. And it's very easy to see why fans would not like that. Because fans, your reward for your team sucking is that you get Kayla Williams or whatever, right? So any player who questions that sort of order of things, there's a logic to it that I understand. You can say there's other, you know, it's Paka watching, it's disempowered, you're siding with owners, whatever. But I think from a pure football perspective, I can understand why there's some tension there between NFL fans and players, Rookie's families. Sure. The equity thing is different though.

So the equity story, and I believe Kailin reported that Aaron Rodgers came also, if you remember to ask about this, that resurfaced during the season, even though the story came out last July, during the season at some point, the aggregators, one of the terrible aggregator accounts, resurfaced it and it went viral

and people got really mad at Caleb Williams all over again, even though it's unclear what he actually asked for, what his family asked for, whether it was just asking questions or how serious the inquiry was. That to me is something that fans should not be upset about. That is starting with billionaires over millionaires and it has nothing to do with your football team. And it's also something that players should, quarterbacks in particular, should ask for. I mean, we, this morning, Dan and I were talking about a team that did Emma Brockos who traded away the farm and paid

245, trying to sooner or forty-five deal-ATL, because they were so desperate for a quarterback. And then now it's so desperate to move on from that quarterback, they're absorbing $85 million in dead money. That is how important this position is to your franchise, to the team, to the business of it. Why should that position in particular not partake in the long-term success of the franchise?

No good explanations to me. I gotta think that the grand majority of people listening to this, if I told them, here's the deal, you're coming out of college and you're the most valuable person in the universe at this occupation. Do you think you should go to the city of someone else's choosing and your leverage means nothing because your salary is slotted? Nobody listening to this would want that situation for themselves.

The only time right now that Caleb Williams could shake up the system is by him and his father asking all the questions right now about why do we have to do it this way when if my son simply went to a sport that didn't have a salary cap. People like Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder fighting over needing a quarterback would go through the roof to pay that person a value that they would assign and then rich people would fight with each other overseeing who could get that quarterback.

The salary cap to me is simply there because owners know they can't control themselves. And Caleb Williams and his dad should try to get anything and everything they want, but they're not going to get any of what they want. What's gonna happen is they're going to get frustrated by this system because I'm not sure that they come from where it is that Archie Manning would

come from which is a lifetime of being able to protect his child's money with his own wealth. I do think the moment at which you sign the paperwork is the moment at which you lose power, right? That's kind of the recognition here. Why is the combine this pivotal moment, Mina? It's because as soon as they sign that rookie deal, you have literally legally relinquished your right to negotiate in the ways that any sort of person would want to use the power of competition to pit various employers against each other, to try and get the best deal for yourself.

All of the stuff that car... So basically, Carl Williams has been framed as largely a quack in ways that of course anonymous people who leaked to agents would like to make him out to be because he's not hiring an agent and he's coming for the very status quo that they profit off of. So that to me is not in much dispute like what is the incentive here. What's so interesting though, what's really interesting to me though is that you now now have this generation of guys, because it's beyond Kale Williams as Mina said. This generation of guys who are seeing the audition as not their audition, but teams auditioning for them. Like, prove to me that you're the place that I should go as opposed to, again, I'm nervously cramming for this test because I got to figure out what my IQ is going to be on record here in my bench and my 40 time.

That just seems to be this change that seems like it won't stop changing unless you saw what why are you shaking your head there? I think it's less about because none of these guys are going to try to control where they end up. Oh, let's be real. I mean, that's what we're talking about, right? Like, this is not going to happen. I would be shocked. But what they are doing is trying to control the process to maximize their earnings, where they do end up to get drafted higher, right?

You know, like for example, a player like Jane Daniels, who's an excellent quarterback prospect, rising up, now pushing for a number two in the draft, two makes more a number three, it's a big deal. He's really thin, and that's a big question mark around him, is his build. And so him saying, yeah, I'm not going to weigh in at the combine, I'm going to weigh in at the pro day,

is him saying, I am going to control when you see how heavy I am. For example, I'm just to weigh in on that pro day. Is him saying, I am going to control when you see how heavy I am? For example, I'm just using that as an example. Basically, it's less them saying, hey, all of you teams have to, you know, I'm the employer here, I'm the hire and all you teams have to come to me. It's more saying, okay, you're the hires, you're all my potential hires, but you're only gonna see, I'm only gonna take the ACT instead of the SAT. The nerdiest possible example that resonates fully with me personally. But it's saying like you're not gonna get all the information you want. I'm gonna control because I want to put forward the best possible case for myself.

But even that little act of saying you only will get to see X, Y, and Z, that is different from previous years when there was more desperation, or at least it felt like more control on the part of the employers. It's such an interesting tension though, because you know, Mina, and you know this too, Pablo, the entire football establishment has,

maybe it's changed some in recent generations, but my entire lifetime, it's about we control you. We control every aspect of your contract, of your freedom, of your structure. You can do some things when you go home on your own, but we've got control over you and what it feels like now, a different generation of players who have seen athletes buck on that system, is they want some of that control back. But none of this is going to change, right? Caleb and Carl are, I mean, you called Carl a quack for having perfectly reasonable ideas about freedoms his son should have. Quoting, quoting someone else, calling him a quack to be clear here. No, I'm just saying, but I'm saying that,

Carl is being dismissed. They are being dismissed because everyone's used to, of course the football team gets control. And I'm asking, how much more control would you like football teams to have? They already have plenty. Dan, that's what I love about this story because he has been portrayed, to me,

in the press, the combine as, you know, staged ad, over-involved, how crazy it is that he's demanding this. But if you took this athletic article which kind of outlines the actual things that his Caleb Williams stat has asked about, not even like demanded, but just kind of inquired about. And you presented all of those things

to anyone outside of our sport. I think to a man, they would all agree, this is eminently reasonable. Oh, you have, imagine this was like the tech industry and your son was like, you know, the had, I don't know, invented some sort of product that every company wanted. And if you were going to all these companies, your Facebooks, your Twitter's and you said,

yeah, he would like equity. He would like some control over his contract. He doesn't want to go through your song and dance. Nobody would question any of that. And it's one of those things where like when you step outside of football, you see how wild it is, the process. Yes. And but, you know, it is presented as being anything but.

Well, it is funny, right? Like the idea that in scouting, you're trying to basically psychoanalyze all of these prospects you might pay nine figures to. And the trait that Caleb Williams and his family are exhibiting is an extraordinarily detailed and sophisticated understanding of how they're trying to attack a defense right now. The defense just happens to be the institutional status quo of the sport itself as opposed to you know the linebacker lining up Across from him. How about the institution of fatherhood because when she says to a man any father With that child would want these freedoms. We're talking about like there's you will get no

Disagreement from a single father that loves his child. Oh wait, this was a similar discussion around Lamar Jackson and his mom, his mom, his momager, right? Can you, can you, yeah. Can you imagine, let's say Mina's kid is an NFL prospect, what Mina is like at these like, what kind of stage mom are you gonna be for your offensive tackle, offensive lineman?

I mean, I'm such a rules follower. And she loves the NFL about as much as she loves Nino. So she might side with the NFL. Come on, Nino. We're gonna comply. Right. We can get along. We can run the 40.

Run the 40. Come on. We can run the 40 run the 40 Don lebatard all of us who were watching college football Elevated everything the weekend was because we missed football in general so very much You didn't watch the ending of UTEP Jacksonville State. It was awesome. A dizzy. Boom. Stugats. Such a lane for you.

Just everything in college football is awesome. Any single thing that happens, she gets deliriously happy about. Don't you miss viewing sports through that prism though? Like I'm envious of Lucy. Like I wish that I could still be happy This is the done levitar show with this two guys What's up five fans? We are back with another edition of the MMA hangout and UFC 299 is near hours away

We are very excited not only is it our home city, but I had to bring in the big guns. I had to bring in Connor Burks, you know the, the most electric man on MMA Twitter, producer of the MMA hour, co-host of NoBets Barred. My boy is out here doing everything. Connor, there's no time for pleasantries. Me and you are friends. Me and you go out and break bread together when I'm in New York.

When you come down to Miami, you got sick, so we couldn't hang out. But there's no time for pleasantries. We're getting straight to the main event. Do you have anything to say about this card? Do you have anything to say about this card? Do I have anything to say about this card, bro? I have too much to say about this card. I could talk about this card for hours.

This is one of the best cards I've seen on paper in recent memory. I mean, maybe in like the last like three or four years, I mean, it's just from top to bottom. I mean, you're talking about this main card. All five fights are just unbelievable and the main event as High stakes as you can get a rematch, you know, the sugar state commission says that so the last time it was a fluke Cheeto he can become a champion. I mean I could go on forever about this

Let's start right there We have the main event for the Bannham weight championship of the world sugar shanomali Who's been on this very show multiple times, friend of the show, and Cheeto Vera, who is a dog. So we'll start off right there. DraftKings has the odds right now at O'Malley minus 270, and Cheeto Vera plus 220.

We did NoBets Bar earlier this week, you and I with Jed, your co-host, and we were talking about how the lines seem a little weird for this fight. Can you give people the historical breakdown that are maybe just getting into the sport for the first time? A very good time to be getting into the sport, by the way, because the last two years have been on fire in the UFC. If this is the first card that you're going to watch, you say, oh, you know what, I've seen Shugan on social medias. He's a cool looking guy. Like, I like his story.

Let me go find out more about him. Let me go watch this fight. Can you give people the historical context of Sean O'Malley and why this fight with Cheeto Verre is so important? Yes. So, I mean, Sean O'Malley is obviously the Bantamway champion of the world now. He had a rise to stardom from the contender series on. And people are just drawn to him,

and he's got personality, he's got style, he's got that sort of it factor that you need to become a UFC champion. But if you look at his record, he's got the one blemish on it. You know, he will claim that he's undefeated, but when he fought Marlon Cito Vera last time, whether it was from Marlon Cito Vera landing the leg kicks, whether it was from an injury that that Sean O'Malley sustained during the fight, his leg gave, and he wasn't really able to stand on it anymore. He dropped to the ground, Cheeto Vera finishes him with some nasty, nasty ground and pound. And that's a win for Cheeto Vera. And that's essentially why Cheeto Vera is getting this title shot. He's an incredibly talented fighter, incredibly skilled, has had some massive wins and some

some famous moments. Like go back and watch the Dominic Cruz head kick knockout. I mean, he has a highlight real behind him, but he has faced losses to guys in the top tier of the Bannonweight division, Corey Sandhagen, for example, just last year, that if he hadn't had this win over Sugar Sean O'Malley, then he wouldn't be getting this title shot.

Now that's not to say that he's not in this fight because like we said I think these odds are a little bit off in this one I mean you said he is a dog. You cannot knock this guy out. He has got a chin Ironclad like he he just does not get knocked out. He does not get knocked down He wears punches beautifully like he looks like he's ready to go on a five mile jog after getting into a five round war It really is crazy. So Sean O'Malley's gonna have to work through that. I know he's got the KO power, I know he's calling for a knockout, but that's a lot to ask.

So I think the way Sean O'Malley gets this done is likely by taking it 25 minutes, using that volume, landing more punches, out pointing him and winning a five round decision. And we know with Cheeto, he's a slow starter. He's a guy that likes to feel out the fight He sees it more as a chess game of like are you're gonna throw those punches? Let me set stuff stuff up later in the third fourth fifth round if it's a five round fight

But are you concerned at all that Sean is just gonna kind of overpower him in those first couple of rounds and Kind of throw a barrage of punches that will make it look to the judges and to the crowd that oh wow O'Malley's in charge of this fight no matter what. Yeah see it's kind of like what you just said. Chido Verily is known to be a slow starter. He's sort of just kind of a low volume guy throughout the course of all of his fights. I mean he has a negative striking differential over the course of his UFC career where Sean O'Malley is putting up like seven significant strikes a minute to like the three and a half that are landed. So I think no matter what happens, if this goes to a decision, Sean O'Malley is likely going to be getting his hand raised just based off of the sheer volume.

I mean, we've seen Marlon Chito Verra get doubled up on strikes, but he dropped Rob Font at the end of like three different rounds. So he was able to get it on the judge's scorecards. I'm not sure I see that happening. I believe in the toughness of Sean O'Malley as well. Go back and watch the Piotr Jan fight. Epic picture of him just covered in blood. I mean, gritty, gritty performance to beat one of the best band and weights in the world.

So I think the longer this fight goes, if Sean O'Malley continues to stay away from the shots that are being set up by Cheeto Vera, the kicks, you know, the power punches that put him on his ass or anything like that, I think it's just going to continue to favor Sean O'Malley. I could see him banking rounds early on and then, you know, you get into round four and it's like, oh, Sean's up to one, he wins round four, you're going into round five, and it's like Cheeto Vara needs to finish here. Minus 150, now you're getting a real differential, but I feel more confident in just taking that fight

goes through a decision rather than Sean O'Malley gets it done. I mean, if he knocks him out, if he knocks him out, that is undoubtedly, I see you smiling, it's undoubtedly one of the greatest feats in this division because you said it, he hasn't been knocked out. Not only has he not been knocked out, he's never been knocked down. That's insane.

There's these fighters. They're these fighters that have this just like mind boggling chin. Like you see it with like a Max Holloway. Like go back and watch Max Holloway. The damage this dude has taken and just never been knocked out, been dropped never like you've never seen them put in like that insane Position where like they're scrambling. They're trying to recover. They're like completely wobbly legs Yeah, they got the wobbly legs. There's just guys like I mean like hello Costa

I know we've seen him finish by Izzy before but like go back and watch that Whitaker fight go back and watch It was shots CB. He was eating shots It's crazy, man And then there's the guys that like they have these chins they don't get knocked down They don't get knocked out and then they wear them like it's just like it's just crazy and and cheeto vera is is at that point It's great. There's a couple guys on this card like Kota yon doesn't get finished Pedro Munoz doesn't get finished Like there are several dudes on this card that have just insane levels of durability Let's move on to the co-main event a five-rounder in the lightweight division for the diamond Dustin Poirier

Who's taking on Benoit Sandini who I saw at MSG? Kick Matt Fervola's head 14 rows up into the garden. And it was like, oh wow, okay. Sandini's really, really good. For those of you who don't know who he is, Connor's gonna give you a little bit of historical context on that. But obviously he's fighting a legend, Dustin Poirier,

30 fights in UFC, like interim champ, legend of the game, dog, like all the accolades you wanna heap on Dustin Poirier. And he's fighting, just to give him more accolades, he's fighting a guy that feels like nobody wants to fight in that division. Yeah. I mean, Dustin Poirier is a legend of the game. He puts on unbelievable performances, just nights that you'll never forget watching this guy's fights. Like it's something like 30 something percent of his fights are fight of the night and that's across the 35 career. Like you just know you're getting action.

When he comes into the octagon, he admitted in an interview this week with Brett Acomodo and he said it before that he's just like, I plan on leaving a piece of me in that octagon. I really have no fear of what's gonna happen in there. And like he's coming to war. And on the flip side of this, the guy he's fighting with, the God of war,

Benoit Saint Denis, is the exact same thing. It's almost like he's a younger Dustin Poirier, a younger Justin Gaichi, 13 wins, all 13 by finish. Just go back and like, this is a, I'm not really into UFC, but I watch like the big fights like dream fight. Like you know this is gonna be all action. It's a banger.

There might be grappling, but like it's going to still be exciting if it hits the mat. The finishing capabilities Benoit Saint Denis, he can knock you out, he can submit you. All of his wins come that way. The toughness of both of these dudes, like you know it's just going to be a just drag out bloody war. It's going to be unbelievable. And the fact that Dustin Poirier took this fight, I mean, I know there was a lot of money involved. I mean, you can kind of trace the path of how this fight was made. At one point, Dustin Poirier tweeted like, fight's off guys.

And then seven hours later, he's like, oh, couldn't get in touch with my agent. We're back. Kind of feels like they were like, all right, wait, here's the amount of money that you actually wanted. We will happily give that to you. And Ben wants to take the last five fights. I believe it is less four or five fights. He's looked unstoppable. He's he's quickly rising.

He's very young in this division so for Dustin Poirier to take this fight, it's Not a ton to gain from it. He would beat like the number 11 ranked lightweight right now And he's number three and a guy that among the more casual fans isn't gonna be a huge name Whereas Benoit Saint Denis he gets a win. He's looking at a title shot, maybe one away top five in the lightweight divisions. You're strapping a rocket ship to the dude's back in terms of potential. It's these two fights, main and co main are some of the most

exciting fights we've seen, not only this young year, but that we may see all year, because it's just so perfectly matchmade between these four guys. 100% man. And this co-main event especially, it's just like, this is the fight that you invite your friend over that doesn't really watch the sport. And you're just like, get them hooked. All right, you got to watch this one, man. You got to watch this one. All right, we have so many more things to go. We're going to cut, you know, we're going to try to keep it tight here between. We've got a minute 30 left between. I was going to say, I see the clock.

I got a minute 30. We're tight. So between Kevin Holland MVP Gilbert, Dutinho Burns versus JDM and Peote Rion versus Sonja Don. Give me a quick one sentence about each one. We'll start with with MVP and Kevin Holland. MVP debuting from Bellator 21 and 2 highlight real package. Hasn't fought the toughest competition,

going up against the gamest, toughest dude ever. I mean, he's got like 21 fights in like six years in the UFC in Kevin Holland, banger written all over it. JDM, Gilbert Rino Burns, similar to the BSD, Dustin Poirier fight, sort of the new guard versus the old guard, Gilbert Rino Burns being the old guard, decorated, just legendary BJJ status on this guy. And then JDM boxing acumen like no other. It's a beautiful thing to watch JDM get into a boxing flow. A very stylistic matchup.

If it stays on the feet, I favor JDM. If it goes to the ground, I worry. Gilbert Rino Burns is nasty down there. Songydong, P peter yawn my word This is my second most anticipated fight on this really and it's on the lead off to oh My god, it's a scrap dude. It's a scrap. I wish they would sign a gentleman's agreement beforehand to Not go to the ground, but I doubt there I doubt they're even gonna go to the ground I mean you're talking about two of the best boxers, not only in the Bantamweight division, but in the entire UFC, super durable, a lot of power, all action.

It's going to be a banger. I can guarantee it. Super cool. We have a ton. I wish we could have done another like 45 minutes. If you want to check out a full breakdown of the entire card, I'll tell you to go check out NoBetsBard where I did, obviously, anytime you come to Miami, obviously you call, you call me up and the boys did. You gotta call the king of Miami. Exactly. Called Jen and CB and they hit me up and they're like,

Hey, let's link on NoBetsBard. So if you want to hear the entire breakdown of the entire card from the prelims all the way to the main event, we take care of you. Plus we sprinkle a little Anthony Joshua and Francis and Connor, which might be happening right now as we speak. I don't know when this is coming out, but we might have taken Anthony Joshua by decision plus two 25. We'll see what that happens. Oh. I don't know when this is coming out, but we might have taken Anthony Joshua by decision, plus two 25.

We'll see what that happens. Oh, I don't know. But CB, let him know all the stuff you're doing. We are not having an MMA hangout this time around. Obviously we're gonna be at the fights. We're actually doing a pre-show, seven to eight 30 PM on Saturday night from Grails in Winwood at the Jose Cuervo party.

Obviously you see down low, we're sponsored by Cuervo now. It's big big big time stuff That's what we do around here CB. So let I'm gonna push people if you want to check out a live stream During the actual fights, please head over to where he's about to tell you Yeah, watch party on Saturday night MMA fighting YouTube channel watch party on Friday for in Ganu Joshua That might be going on right now MMA hour twice a week Mondays and Wednesdays Quervo shout out man. Oh my big sponsorship for you guys. Come on draft Kings partners Quervo. We love you guys

We appreciate you guys MMA hangout. We'll be back Maybe next week to recap what happened to 99 until all that go check out MMA hour Go check out the MMA hangout 7 to 8 30 p.m. On Saturday. We love you I mean hang out seven to eight thirty p.m. On Saturday, we love you Hey friends, it's Mike Ryan and a lot has changed over the years But one thing that hasn't the great and dependable taste of Miller light It was the original light beer and to this day. It is still the best one Miller light has more the taste you want and less of the stuff that you don't I was at a baseball game I love college baseball, especially this time year.

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