The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - Hour 1: Atop Dan Le Batard's Ivory Tower

Episode Date: March 27, 2025

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The tequila that invented tequila. Proximo, Cuervo.com, please drink responsibly. Cuervo. This is the drink responsibly. Cuervo. This is the Don Leventor Show with the StuGuts Podcast. An emotional Amin keeps talking during the break about his and our beloved Brian Windhorse, inaugural member of the Jonathan Zaslow tool Hall of Fame. Amin is friends with Brian. I've never heard him say it out loud. I like Brian Windhorst and I know him a little bit.

I cannot call myself a friend of Brian Windhorst, but I have admired the work that he has done for a long time. And your defense of Brian Windhorse during the break What were you getting mad about while you were staring at your phone? No, it's just the number of people who seem to think that Brian went to high school at LeBron like he was off the school paper covering LeBron and No Brian Winters is like my age We're much older than LeBron Brian Winters was out of college and a grown man working in newspapers

when LeBron was first coming up as a phenom. As many local newspaper, I know people don't read newspapers anymore, but once upon a time kids, newspapers had writers that were assigned beats. The beat was the thing that you covered. And some people covered the local NFL team, and some people covered the local hockey team.

But the entry level in the sports department, Dan, was you were covered what? What would you cover? Not for you, but in general, a newspaper journalist. I mean, you could cover high school. High school. You cover high school. So, Ryan Ward for the Akron Beacon Journal, I believe,

and he was covering high school. I wonder who was playing high school sports who was really good in Akron at that time. Not really good for Akron, not really good for Northeast Ohio, not really good for Ohio, good nationally. So of course, he covers LeBron James, right? And then LeBron gets drafted. And so what does the Akron Beacon Journal do? Hey, the most impactful high school prospect ever, perhaps, is going to the local team. Hey, guess what beat you're on now, Brian Winters? The Gatsby.

But what are you defending him against? Because our show can thank its economy to LeBron James. Sure. The entirety of our show, given what South Florida sports has been for 20 years and given what ESPN built for us specifically upon LeBron's arrival in Miami, what are you objecting to? That people have been telling. Brian Windhorst is exceptional at his job, hard stop. Brian Windhorst is an incredibly hard worker, hard stop. And

Brian Windhorst is also disliked because people simply think that he has been at the economy of LeBron since he was young, which he has been. It has been very profitable for a lot of people to be around the economy of LeBron. Brian Windhorst exists in this weird space where half the people hate him because,

oh yeah, you hate LeBron. You're always hating on LeBron. And the other half half the people hate him because, oh yeah, you hate LeBron, you're always hating on LeBron. And the other half of the people hate him, they're like, you're always in the tank for your guy LeBron. And when the populace hates you for two completely polar opposite reasons, you know what that means? Sounds like you're pretty fair. And the people who love LeBron are mad when he doesn't say LeBron glazy type stuff. And the people who hate LeBron hate when he's fair and he says good things about LeBron are mad when he doesn't say LeBron glazy type stuff, and the people who hate LeBron hate when he's fair and he says good things about LeBron. Sounds like he's a fair guy.

But what I am objecting to to answer your question, there's three major points of ignorance that seem to get repeated a lot as I'm seeing all of this, right? Number one is that Brian went to high school with LeBron that somehow, and has been kind of just mooching off the cool kid that went to high school with me,ron, that somehow has been kind of just mooching off the cool kid that went to high school with me, right? Which isn't the case, he is a journalist, right?

He's covered the dude for longer than anyone else, continuously, right? Number two is that Brian Winters wrote four books about LeBron, that's weird, like he's a stalker or something. LeBron is one of the most public figures who draws a lot of attention and has lived a lot of lives, right,

in the time he's been in public space. And so, yeah, there's a lot of material to be written about that. And the guy who has covered him longer than anyone else, of course, would be that, right? Number three, and this one is the dumbest perhaps, right? Is that somehow this is Brian's fault. Like Brian walks around telling people

that he's friends with LeBron. I said on threads, I've never seen him, heard him insinuate even lightly, even gently. And the response is, well yeah, he's always talking about he knows what LeBron's thinking. Ipso facto, that's presenting us. And I'm like, y'all not know how journalism works? Well, we had a point where people have a fundamental

misunderstanding. Yes, yes, 100%. Like just, like the idea that like, oh, the guy who's covered this guy for damn near 25 years might know something that the rest of you don't, you think that means he's his friend or he's presenting as his friend? Or a stalker.

Or a stalker. Crazy. And it's like ignorance that is repeated. And it's not one person or two people, it's lots of people. Well, but when you say ignorance was repeated I've told you this before and it's one of the most dismaying things maybe the most dismaying thing about my professional

feelings about journalism is that I care about what it is deeply and the minutiae of it and people do not. They just, and furthermore, I can't think of an maybe, maybe lawyer, use car salesman. I don't, I can't think of an occupation that will get a more visceral reaction from somebody. I don't like that person than media. Like, like media creates a great, people really, I underestimated how much people hate the media. Dan, I don't wanna turn this into the poor media, right? Defend the media or whatever. I'm just saying like, it's one thing to say,

I don't like you, I don't trust you, your information is wrong. Like, okay, I'm with that. There are people, media people that I don't like, I don't trust, your information is wrong. Like, okay, I'm with that. There are people, media people that I don't like. I don't trust, their information is wrong or it removes context, it is manipulated, right? That happens, yeah. What I'm having a problem with is people are like,

why is this dude writing books? Like, what? Do you not understand how any of this works? Like, if he's not his friend, why'd he write four books about him? It's just, it's a fundamental misunderstanding of like, how things work. It's not even like, I don't like you or I don't trust the media. It's like, why are you writing books?

But isn't that happening all the times in arguments where there's a confirmation bias on you want to just reaffirm your feelings? That's a next level confirmation bias. I think the thing too thatirm your feelings that the next level confirmation bias i think the thing too that's weird is that like lebron like put voice to it like it's it's different when other media people or people on the internet are like oh brian winhors is so weird he's always following lebron for lebron to voice that in an interview that's that's the part to me that was like man lebron you know brian you know what the deal is like he's been following he's been building your lore since you were 17 years old and all of a sudden now you're gonna switch up and be like oh No, he's weird. He's trying to act like he's my best friend

I'm a big fan of Brian Winters. I used to produce his podcast very nice guy Well, thank you friend of mine actually that was good journalistic disclosure from Tony Yes, has a personal think I have a personal relationship. Well done. Thank you Why don't you think you're friends with Brian Winnhorst, Dan? I just don't know him well enough to, I would say we're very friendly, but friends, like I don't, you know, you gotta,

if you have someone who you consider a friend, isn't that a person you've gone to dinner or lunch or coffee with once, like, or that you've done something socially with them outside of work isn't that Generally where it is that you guys would put friendship or it's just I most of my friends are work friends So maybe maybe that's not a trainer. Yes, that's correct Well, it's different times right like you're gonna friends with people you've never actually met with in person

I get you the internet texting relationships. I will say video games sure I don't know if Dan's doing a lot of you know I'm saying other people are friends with people for a long time playing video game. I got them to see oh, yeah I will say this I think I think if there was like a dinner threesome of Tony Brian Winnhorst and Dan Dan and Brian Winnhorst obviously would have a better time with each other and Brian gravitate more towards Dan like he'd consider Dan more Of a peer and friend no disrespect to you But I think that he would spend more of his time talking to Dan than you But we're there together all three of us. Yeah, I know there's back and forth back and forth

I mean you need a life of the party Tony's great at doing like, you know the jump rope you jump in and jump out. He's great at that So I could see Tony Holding his own in the phone. I got me would have a great Yeah So I could see Tony holding his own in the phone. I got me would have a great Yesterday when you guys talk about some of the stuff that happens around Windhorse and journalism And do you guys not know how this stuff works? I found myself somewhere in the center of this yesterday Appropriately enough around the food because a lot of people were informing me that something that I quote-unquote reported was also rebutted by LeBron and people believe

LeBron's side now after Dwayne Wade said it and after Mario Chalmers said it now LeBron has confirmed it so this is the only sound I actually want to play from that LeBron and McAfee thing. The plane that we were getting on, the ladies on the plane were making chocolate chip cookies. Oh, holy shit. Yeah, so they knew. Oh, man.

Yeah, so they were making them and bringing them because we had the same, with the same ladies all the time. You know, it was a party of six. You know, they were rotating. Every time they knew I loved chocolate chip cookies, so they would get on and I would. It's soft? Soft, with a little crispy edge. Oh, perfect. Yeah, perfect. so they would get on and I would, hey. Soft, soft. Soft, with a little crispy edge.

Oh! Perfect. Yeah, perfect. And I would get on and they already knew. They'd bring me two cookies and I'd get the gambling with the guys and I got my cookies and we good. And then one flight I got on, I looked at them and they looked at me and I'm like,

oh those, that didn't look familiar. But I asked them, I was like, do you, we got the, he was like, no, we're not allowed to no more cookies on these flight. What? When Wade County had to leave and go to Chicago. I looked at the cookie situation. I was like, Oh, shit, maybe it wasn't that bad. I mean, D ways millions in my cookies. I was okay. Maybe I made it out. I was okay. It wasn't that bad.

I was like, okay, maybe I made it. I was like, okay, it wasn't that bad. So what happened yesterday, because I had said that never in my life covering the heat had I heard from so many people saying that that story was not true. So people hear LeBron say it and say, see, LeBotard, you're wrong. And I'm like, I don't know if I'm wrong. I know LeBron thinks that this is the reason this happened.

That's clearly why he and all of his teammates think that reason this happened is because pat reilly took away his cookies but i received calls from a number of people who weren't pat reilly cuz pat reilly would not care about this and i sure shit would never asked waste his time by asking him about this i received more calls from people in protection of Pat Riley than I've ever received about anything. And it wasn't because they were wanting me to report that. Why would anybody report about cookies and ice cream?

And why would I care one way or the other about cookies and ice cream? They were doing it because they simply, well I would care about cookies. I was gonna say, I mean, obviously. I mean, come on, you're fooling over there. We just hear a lie on air. The trainer's gonna be mad about that. Yeah, that's true. But for some reason, they all pointed out

that it was the nutritionist who made that decision, that it was not Pat Riley, and I told you that, and so I was reporting that sort of with a wink, but a lot of people enjoyed the idea that I might be wrong when those same people are calling me yesterday after LeBron says this and saying it's not true. To be fair, to be fair, Dan,

you messed that up that day because you kept focusing on, it wasn't cookies, it was ice cream. I know you were trying to make a joke. Well, I thought that part was funny. I know, but unfortunately, it took away from the point you wanted to make. joke. I thought the joke was funny. I know, but unfortunately it took away from the point you wanted to make. This is the same problem we were talking about

just a minute ago, which is that we're all sort of confused on what the line is here, what's being reported and what's not being reported. But I'm telling you though that people assume because of what they think of journalism that that's me speaking through Pat Riley for Pat Riley. And I'm telling you that it wasn't that. That that's not how any of that came to be,

the denial of that story. And the reason that story is being denied is because it's being told 10 years later at a time, right? I understand why those people are reaching out to me because they see the heat and crisis and they see at the end of his career that Pat Riley is being portrayed in a way that's not in any way player friendly.

Like that is hostile to someone who is valuable that you don't wanna piss off. And I understand that he players believe that, but there is a real disconnect between whatever it is LeBron thought that was was whatever it is that felt to around his teammates and who was actually responsible for doing that to LeBron. I think then I want to clarify one thing for everybody listening to say so and so is a mouthpiece for so and so.

If you preface the information with people from the heat reached out to me and they said this that's not about these i'm just being a messenger if dan said it wasn't this it was it was a nutritionist and never clarified where you got said information from that's being a mouthpiece and i don't think you've ever done that you've you

made clear every single time i think they hit me up there they let me know about this and I'm merely passing it along. And so this goes for everybody. Like when someone presents you information, whether they're a journalist, a former player, whatever, and they're telling you, I spoke to so and so and this is what they said, that doesn't mean that this person

is espousing that belief. They're just merely being a messenger. You're expecting people to, yeah. Yes, I am. No, but... I don't think it's too much to ask people to burn a calorie, a calorie. It is, you're asking them...

A calorie. You're asking them to understand journalism when they hate me. Not understand journalism. You also just asked the heat side, right? Like you didn't ask Mario Chalmers his thoughts. I didn't ask anybody anything. Yeah, they told him.

He also didn't need to do that if he's coming out and saying heat people called me Yeah said this he doesn't need to go to the other The other opinion was already out there like it's you only needs to check multiple sides If you're reporting it if he's reporting it as fact if he's passing along what they in the same way that when I pass along with RG 3 said that he didn't when he made that tweet he wasn't talking about me no he didn't even see what Mina said Jeremy when I said that rolled his eyes on a German I'm not saying oh no he didn't see me I'm saying that's what he's saying and there's a

difference there right is is how it's presented and so Dan if you're saying I'm expecting people you know what I'm giving them better dot Maybe they didn't know because much like a couple years ago We talked about there's a difference between analyst and reporter when someone breaks news Versus someone says I think this is bad for the Lakers whatever there's a difference in analysis and reporting there's a difference in opinion and Reporting it's a distinction that people don't know they don't they don't know well Maybe I'm assuming they don't know. And so I'm explaining.

But that's what the problem is with journalism, right? When the same person sometimes is giving you opinion and sometimes is doing journalism. That's exactly what I was gonna say because there are times, Dan, where you may say something about the heat and the fans are calling you a mouthpiece because they believe you're saying things

that were told to you and you're not making the distinction of when you are and when you aren't. And so I think that it's a really, like Billy said, it's a tricky space for you. And when you're someone, I mean, ultimately it doesn't matter because you have a show, you can say whatever you want on it. But this is the sort of issue with like the blurring of the lines when you're someone who wants to report things and also someone that wants to give their opinions. I don't think there's any blurred line when it comes to Dan.

I think Dan says explicitly the people from the heat said this, Pat Riley told me that this is how he talks when he's Right saying that the audience has to trust that when you're not saying that you are not being told what to say and some people In the audience obviously whether justified or not don't think that's the case And so that's something that like you are the only person that knows your own integrity as a reporter and as an analyst. And so you either continue to do it or you don't. But people will always have that question about you because they know you have high up relationships with Miami Heat. Howdy everybody.

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This is the Don Lebatard Show with the Stugats. I think Dan is being attacked here unnecessarily when we've lost focus of the real situation. Either LeBron's a liar or Pat Riley's a liar. And we need to right now vote on who is a liar. Put it on the poll who's a liar, LeBron or Pat Riley. Because the cookies were being made, there was a group of six people making these cookies and then at some point they stopped making the cookies. We're told a nutritionist may or may not have been involved

and may have been the decision maker on the removing of the cookies and or possibly ice cream from the plane. I say that nutritionist should have been fired immediately. If you cost your team LeBron James because you stopped putting cookies and ice cream on a plane, hit the road, Jack or Jacqueline. Well, let me ask you guys this question

because the cookies and ice cream came back the very next time that LeBron wanted them. Do you believe if Pat Riley ordered that, that that's how that would have gone? Absolutely not. Like if Pat Riley, if LeBron is right, and look, I'm not interested in a liar, although I was really surprised to see Stephen A. Smith to simply call LeBron a liar on ESPN's airwaves because it's not something I've seen him do before. And when you say blurring the distinction between reporting and analysis,

I have not seen, I'm going to try and think about this, if I've ever seen someone of Stephen A.'s stature say in this scenario, call someone like that a liar. That's something you see in the lower standard form of sports radio. From people who aren't Stephen A. Smith. One of the first things Dan taught me, he said don't call people a liar,

just say he's lying, right? The action, not the- The behavior, yes. Not the person, because you're attacking the character of somebody there, and it's just I maybe I'm wrong about this answer for me Have you guys and all the time you've been listening to Steven A because maybe he has done this Have you heard him say of someone that person is a liar? Because I have not and so I was a little alarmed to see the stakes

Escalated to a point if we need to keep pushing the boundaries on entertainment if we keep need to getting if we keep needing clicks if if you're aging in an industry where you have to keep up and you have to continue to be ahead of everyone else and you are stephen a smith a conqueror you keep pushing the line toward places where it becomes what a mean of all people is pearl clutching on. Commissioner, please save me from the content.

So I haven't heard, I'm trying to think of what I've ever heard Stephen A. Smith call people. Not a liar, I've heard him say stay off the weed. I said somebody, he said somebody was on crack, but never a liar. Lamar Odom, who was on crack. Yeah. You know, it's funny.

You say that, Dan, has he ever called anyone a liar? And look, I don't believe in calling people liars. I criticize actions and behaviors. I don't criticize people's character. But if there were ever someone that we could accuse of being a liar, and there should be one, I'd be like, eh, I can see it. Wouldn't it be LeBron?

The joke, the joke is like. That's the whole meme, yeah. He's pretending like he could see what was gonna happen before it happened. Oh, I was watching Kobe warm up, and I swear I turned around and told him, oh, I think he's a score 81 today. Like, come on, man, if there was anybody

that this could be a legitimate thing thrown at. What's the semantics of I'm not gonna say that someone's a liar, I'm gonna say that they're lying? Like if someone's cheating, are they a cheater? No, I would not go that far. I'm just saying they're cheating. Like what's the difference? The semantics is, like in this case,

Stephen A. Smith says that what LeBron is saying is a lie. So if I say he's lying, I'm focusing it to just this, versus he's a liar, that makes him mean every day of his life he walks around lying to people, which all of us do, by the way. That's pathological lying. I mean, I feel like if you lie, you're a liar. I think the distinction's if you're writing it

and you can get sued. Put it on the poll, please, at LeBotard Show. If you lie one time, are you a liar? And also who's lying, LeBron or Pat Riley, the important one. Or the nutritionist. A long, long time ago, Dan was a prodigy

and his writing used to make him smile And he knew if he had his chance He'd rat out UM for bogus Pell grants and maybe Learn from Cody for a while But network money made him sell his soul, now he shows all his bias To the Heat and now the Panthers Dance fake news, oh have you heard? I can't remember if he cried when he told us with his face so wide That all his morals were a lie the day journalism died

so Dan was saying, oh my how I'd love to eat pie oh but if it had some gluten then I think I may die I'll shoot my integrity straight into the sky banging Panthers drums as a Cuban-born guy Panthers drums as a Cuban-born guy Billy, I need your help with something here because I found that my lack of enthusiasm for our March Sadness Tournament is something that has crippled the last couple of years of tournaments that we have thrown together. Can we update our March Sadness tournament, which I believe is aggressively trying to annoy me?

No, I don't think that's the case, but I will say this, not aggressively, passive aggressively maybe at best, not aggressively. This round we sent out a new prompt, and if truth be told, so that we keep the trains on the tracks and we get everything moving, we sent out both prompts. We sent out the Elite 8 and the Sweet 16 prompts at the same time so that we would have them

ready to go. So you can vote today and tomorrow, and then the next round you can vote on Saturday and Sunday. This round is the Sweet 16. We had two rounds last weekend, and every time we have to send out a new prompt, so what we were trying to do was send out timely prompts, prompts that would connect fans to the show so that people are watching the show, they're interacting, and then we keep it up to date.

We don't just wanna send things like, what's your favorite show moment? Why would you do that? It's a terrible prompt that we would send out. So this week's prompt was, what is the worst part of the life? What is the worst part of the life? You know, just put your nose to the grindstone

and like Stu Gott, hope one day the police don't show up at my front door with a search warrant. life. Watch a game with Levatard? The only thing Dan has in common with a basketball is that they're both round! Sorry Dan. What do the letters in Adam stand for? Annoy's Dan, April 7th, March Sadness Watch Along, Collision Course. Poppy, what do you say to the remaining fans who think they can beat me? They can't kiss my old Cuban ass! Give it to me again! Hi it's Mike from Baltimore. The worst part of the life is not always getting to share the things

we enjoy with others. My wife and I, we love swinging. We'd like to share that with others, but when we asked the neighbors if they wanted to swing, they said no. When we asked the kids of the community if they wanted to swing, their parents said. When we asked the kids in the community if they wanted to swing, their parents said it was time for them to go eat dinner, even though it was only 3 p.m. So vote for me if you want me to show Dan how to swing. Oh, damn, man. That guy is incredible.

He's got on a run. He showed us his hole the first time, his bush the second time, and now he's showing us his swing. Hell yeah. Yeah. What seed was he originally? I think he's a 12.

Wow. Cinderella time. 5-12. Yeah man, a 12 seed. Cole and Bush? Yeah, Mike from Baltimore. Nice. Wait till you see what he does to the Elite Eight.

Dan, you guys are gonna have fun. You got him winning? Yeah, I do. It's fan voting for sure. Again, it's fan voting and he's gonna sit right next to you. I heard, when this was being discussed the first time, okay, I heard, I heard Billy enjoying,

he didn't know I was hearing this and not enjoying it. I heard Billy enjoying the idea of fans being able to vote, just learning on their own, figuring it out on their own, that the person who needs to win is the one that Dan would least like to spend four hours with. And I'm someone who loves our fans. Like, more than any of you guys, I actually spend time with these people, talking to them for hours the way you do not.

What? What are you talking about? Excuse me. Nobody, nobody, I'm gonna say this right now, nobody spends more time with the fans than I do. Oh, fan off. Okay. Nobody spends more time than I do with the fans. Every time we have these events, I'm there,

you guys are awful, like you go to your little cordon sections, not me, I'm in gen pop, I'm hanging out with them, I'm getting drinks with them, I'm doing shots, every time they say, I mean let's do a shot. Well that's- You think I wanna do the shot? I don't wanna do the shot. I don't wanna do the shot. I wanna- Yes you do. I don't, I just wanna have a nice sip, but you I mean, let's do a shot. Well, that's I want to do the shot. I want to do the shot. I don't want to do the shot.

I do. I don't. I just want to have a nice sip. But you know what? Let's do a shot. You know what? I always they always say, what do you want to do? You know what?

I always say back whatever you want to do because I don't want to be like, I'd like, you know, they it's whatever they want to do. And usually they support the sponsors to support us. So it's usually Cuervo or Smirnoff or anyone or Evan Williams or any one of the fine brands that we do. But the point is, I don't scurry off back behind the velvet rope up in my Shangri-La

looking down on everybody from my ivory tower. Like, look at these peasants. They've come to worship me. Hold on, let me let them touch the hem of my garment. I don't do that. You just compared them to criminals. You said you spend time with them in gen pop. Yeah, gen pop, because I'm the general population,

that's what gen pop stands for, it's not prison. Someone has misinformed me, my friend. I just wanna be clear on how it is you have me doing this, you have me in a fine robe in some fabric of, what is it, silk, I just wanna be clear. Fine linens. I'm behind a velvet robe. I'm in Shangri-La.

High atop. An ivory, a tower made of ivory. Yes, and you're looking down. But it's not just you. It's a lot of other characters in this room right here. I'm not gonna name names. So it was interesting. Well, we have had some incidents in the past.

We got a crazy letter today. We normally have a space to go to now. Hold on, by the way. Should we bring that back? The guy that snuck in that infiltrated the ivory tower? That's not even the worst of them. There's someone worse than that, dude? Okay, I don't-

In his flip-flops? I do not want to call our listeners- We thought he was Chris Cody's friend. The most loyal I've seen in this medium, Genpop. I don't- I'm part of them. I'm in the general population. That's what Gen Pop stands for. It doesn't make it any better

that you're a fellow prisoner. You're calling our listeners criminals who don't deserve freedom. And I'd like you to not do that while saying that you're better with the fans than all of us are. One of my favorite jokes that did not make the final cut of the

Akbar domestic bit was I asked, I asked Fuentes, what's that? I pointed at the Freedom Tower. He's like, oh, that's a Freedom Tower. I said, oh, freedom. Oh, well, we don't know. No, bad, very bad. Wait, that was a bit? Weather is starting to warm up.

Regular season starting to wind down. Games of consequence in sports starting to ramp up. I know what to wind down, games of consequence in sports starting to ramp up, I know what you're gonna need by your side. It's by my side already. Miller Lite. Yeah that's right, I'm making my spring time a Miller time. I'm making my sports time Miller time. Going to a car race, Miller time. Gonna see some tennis, Miller time. Gonna chill in the backyard with some friends and make some memories? Miller Time! I love Miller Lite because it's got taste that I know I can depend on. No games, no gimmicks. It's that simple folks, it's just a great beer for people who like beer.

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