The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - Hour 1: Charlotte's Family Meeting

Episode Date: October 18, 2023

We head back out to Los Angeles with Dan, Mike, Charlotte and Amin as Mike Golic Jr. joins the show. Charlotte shares how she feels her families merging between GoJo and Oddball, but Dan feels like Amin is limiting Charlotte. GoJo shares the differences between real fights and football fights and has a Taylor Swift take. Then, the size of professional athletes, Victor Wembanyama, and athlete reactions to Player Lists from media members. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You're listening to Giraffe King's Network. This is the Dunlabel Tarshou with the Stugat's Podcast. I have to tell you guys, I feel like my two families are meeting each other with a meeting from Oddball and Gojo from Gojo. It's like my it's like I had a secret family and neither one knew and now they're like me and we're in the same room And I'm like no so guys totally cool But that's is this like the scene and crazy stupid love where Steve Carell finds out that Ryan Gosling is dating his daughter. Yes. Where do I fit in into this mix? Steve Carell. Yeah. On the outside. Wow. The shame that just swept right over Charlotte's face. I feel like the outsider at my own Thanksgiving party. Yes. I know, but it's actually a lovely

thing. But I do feel I'm like, you're in the same room. It's like, this is my two separate Zoom boxes in one's actual room. Well, it is kind of funny seeing it come together that way because Dan, you're the person in this room that I know by far the least, even though my exposure to you has been probably the most of anyone content-wise in this room. So it is love, I'm about to have a review every day of Monday. wise in this room. So it is love odd ball. Every day of Monday. What is the awkwardness that it's not awkwardness that you're feeling right? I love it.

You just love that this person that you do odd ball with every day except Monday and Mike Golek Jr., who you do an entirely different set of things with. You're just happy that they're in the same room staring at each other. Yeah. And that we're getting the mix of both is very fun to me. So Charlotte exists in this very Greg Cody S space, right? We're on Oddball, she's this character

and she doesn't know how to count and her geography sucks and history is also a little shaky and all that, but is genuinely makes people happy, right? And then I see her on Gojo Show, first of all, her picture quality is miles better. I'm like, what's happening here? It's the same camera, the same laptop. I haven't changed a thing. But somehow the picture quality is better. And then she's like serious and making points. And I'm like, wait a second. It's like when you hear Greg Cody on the Tony corner, I was like, Oh, this is a respected

journalist. He's got range. You're stunned that he's got. Yeah. I can take multitudes. Why do we get the clown? Right. I make points every once in a while. It is. It's an interesting sliver of everybody that you do get there. But I don't know. It's a, for me, it's kind of interesting. Charlotte, the point you brought up about just considering all of this because it is kind of representative, Dan, of like the thing that you've been trying to build this entire time, which is all of these people from all of these different spaces that feel like they've got to be one thing there that get to come to wherever you're at and be whatever version

of themselves they want to be and maybe don't get to be in all those spaces. Maybe that's kind of what wherever you're at and be whatever version of themselves they want to be and maybe don't get to be in all those spaces. So maybe that's kind of what Charlotte's getting at. Yeah. Is that wrong? You know, it's funny in society, when you have a person who is a different person in different settings,

this viewed as a negative, right? Yeah. Oh, this is not a genuine person. But I kind of like it, man. I like being someone different in different settings all the time. It's refreshing. It stimulates different parts of my brain. And I wonder if that's something, is that changing at all or am I still on the island here?

To the degree that any of what we do has a formula or creating environments, because I do think that on top of writing, if I'm talking about something that I'm proud of, it's creating environments where people could be their maximum selves. And on our show, I feel like people don't ever know what's a bit or what's not a bit because everyone on the show is a version of themselves instead of it's seven, it's at 10. Like, there is authenticity in everything that's happening there, but it sounds like, I mean, that you're typecasting Charlotte, you're limiting her, that Mike is offering

her the floor to be a version of herself that has slightly more range than the one that she has on oddball where she has to put the odd in oddball and you're there to provide the ball. I learned it from watching you. I wanted to do the grade. Well, when you got comfortable with your previously racist Antonio Benderis or borderline racist Antonio Benderas impersonation, I regret giving you the fuel that you have now created from this character. I have my remorse about this. I don't like this word, borderline.

You want it to just be flatly and absolutely borderline gives you an out. Yeah, border is very, very tricky. Oh, no, it's getting worse. It's, yeah, you're getting even closer. The line is where we feel alive. Something that I wanted to ask you guys that we have not gotten to this week,

because I imagine basketball has personalities like this. But over the weekend, when I saw that Cleveland and San Francisco got into a brawl on the sidelines, whenever I see football brawls, whether it's telebe fighting on the field with somebody, I get a little scared of my television because I know the amount of menace and violence that those guys have to crawl over to get to where they are. So when there are people in that sport who are also feared by the people in that sport, I marvel at it. And so when I'm watching the browns

and the forty-nineers on the sideline and then I see Trent Williams come over who calls himself he's got a documentary on amazon i believe that's called silverback calls himself silverback when i see these violent men are fighting and then he makes his way into the fray. And clearly everyone's like, okay, everyone on both sides is like, okay, this need whatever whatever we're doing needs to stop now. That is not something that I'm used to seeing in football at all. When one guy gets there and everyone's a little bit afraid, it is the feeling that everybody who plays that sport wants

to be immediately feared by everybody when your presence is out there. Cause it did and there weren't other like similar bodies like you know, you always get Dominique calling square bodies. Trent is the final boss and square bodies and he walks out there and it is immediately everyone recognizes we hear business decisions all the time. They did the value prop and they're heading they go, nope, those hands aren't worth it. Like football so much of it behind the scenes in practice. And I remember this came up actually years ago when the dolphins were on hard knocks and Mike Pounsy was the center and it was him and Richie and Cognito. And there was one particular clip from practice where they showed

two guys are starting to get into it with Mike Pounsy and he goes, we're not going to do all this. You want to fight? We'll do it in the locker room after this. You got to do the calculus on every playoff. Is that guy the kind of wild that's actually going to want to escalate this? Because there's a football fight, we can go out there and push each other and jack guy up under the face mask. And then there's the dude and I'd imagine for some people, Trent falls into that category worse.

Those are a real set of problems that I am not accounting for even in this sport. I cannot imagine what it feels like to be that person, to know that you have that power when you walk into, when you decide something is either over or something is about to start, it is your decision. But what does that feel like? Here's my question, right? Is it like this in football, like in basketball,

there's these guys that the common public does not know. Yeah. But like inside, everyone knows, don't mess with that dude. Is that, do they have that in football? Yeah. Who, who are some of those guys? I remember a story while you guys were talking Darryl Gardner physically looked, he was like

5% body fat, he was a defensive tackle for the dolphins, and he was like 320 pounds. He became a body, a body, I'm sorry, a weightlifter, a professional bodybuilder. But people feared him, but one time he got into a fight with OJ McDuffie, who was very, very small, 120 pounds lighter. But people knew not to trifle with OJ McDuffie because when they got into a fight, OJ McDuffie went to his car and got his gun. Yeah. Yeah. And that's like, that's one of the things that's in play here that you're talking about, the guy that you don't wanna mess with.

But Trent Williams is, I don't think that's what people are fearing with Trent Williams. They're simply fearing the size of Trent Williams. So let me give you an example from basketball. Jerry Stackhouse, now I believe that coach of Vanderbilt, but Jerry Stackhouse, long NBA career, good player. I don't think the common fan who was very familiar with Jerry Stackhouse would think, oh, this is the guy that nobody wants to mess with.

And there's a story, and I wish I could remember the kid's name. He was a rookie and he was talking trash to Jerry Stackhouse. And at one point Jerry said, after the game, I'm going to whoop your ass. And it's like, I'm not going to do anything here. And so gay man's Jerry calmly goes back. He doesn't like run through the time He does this several times because it's not the only time he did something like this goes his locker room right Go to the locker room showers changes puts on suit the earring everything meets with the media post game what happened Oh, that answers all the questions. Okay, we done.

All right, cool. Take the suit off, puts on his practice gear, and then goes and waits by the bus for the guy. And they had to like, talk them down because Jerry was gonna beat it out of this guy. And they told the kid during the game, like don't talk to Jerry like that, because he's serious. It's not, and it's not the rage of, oh, I'm a little bit of just like don't, don't, don't talk to Jerry like that because he's serious.

It's not, it's not, and it's not the rage of, oh, I'm a little bit just like, okay, when the game's over, I will see you down by the buses. It's like putting a G-Callen fight for a fight. Yeah, exactly. Pretty much, right up, pretty much. But it's like, it's schoolyard stuff because all of this are guys who grew up actually fighting. There's a lot of people that grew up like being physical, being big guys doing all that. And to the point about Trent,

I always said in football, there's so many different body types. There are deterrents, which are the big guys, like offensive of defensive lineman. That's a deterrent. Every bar I ever walked into when I was 300 pounds. No one wanted to fight me.

I'm not a good fighter. I've never been a fight in my life, but size wise, I'm a deterrent in the animal kingdom. Whereas you look at big skill guys, tight ends linebackers, that's an invitation for some guy who's feeling froggy that day who feels like, oh, I'm gonna go and show off here,

because that guy's not that big. That's the one lights go up. Why did you Charlotte give him a pity so tall? No, he's just such a sweet soul. He's so clever. They don't know that though, that's the whole point. That's the idea. That's why he's got the sleeve, right?

Like all these things in hands, right? Oh, that's why I said, I lifted weights and got tattoos for years so that when I want to talk about Glee or Wax Poetic about Taylor Swift, some macho like Meathead can't say shit to me because I'm everything you're trying to be right now. And the reason you're mainlining Cretatine before you go work your office job and then having your cousin tattoo in your basement. So you can project the kind of masculinity that I have here as an armor

so I can just tell you why I think death by a thousand cuts is the best Taylor Swift song. First of all it is I can all that might be the most and the best thing I have ever heard you say or maybe just the best thing I've ever heard anyone say. Wow. Wow. Good to bring our families together. Wow. Thanksgiving, 2023.

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It's the perfect deal for anyone who could use some savings right now. Subscribe today at publicmobile.ca. Different is calling. We like to call this one a chorus of Owen Wilson. Ready? Stugats. Wow This is the Don Lebatard show with the Stugats Charlotte Wilder, I mean El Hassan and a half-new to Mike Golick Jr. who looks if you're watching on YouTube, but like he's winning the pooing right now, it looks like he is on

the Iowa State football team and doesn't have any pants on while he is doing this. I'm glad we're here because I wanted to talk to him about how little fans understand about the size of the human beings who are playing the sports that we watch. I know a mean is going to be able to help me here when we talk about basketball because I've watched basketball with my wife close to court side and I try to explain to her that the small guys there are all my height that I'm six four.

And she doesn't believe it because of the proportion differences of what it is that you're looking at. And I thought about this on Sunday night, Ryan Dayball is chewing out Tyrod Taylor and should have been chewing him out. And Tyrod Taylor comes over to where dayball is. Tyrod Taylor I've always thought of as really small. But he's dwarfing Brian Dayball when he stands next to him, even though Tyrod Taylor is only six one. Can you sort of quantify for me how little understanding people have of how giant

the human beings are who are playing football. Because when I stand next to Lane Johnson or John Runyon once upon a time, these are human beings that me at my size, 64, 250, I would have no chance to move them because their mass is so large that I don't believe that people who are watching the sport understand what they're watching in terms of size and strength.

So the biggest version of size and strength at a place that made me realize, like I was a college senior. I had just finished my season and I went up. My buddy Kyle Rudolph was a rookie that year with the Minnesota Vikings. He was their second round picket tie and It was their last game of the season. And so me and one of my buddies went up there to watch. And because it's not just the size and it's not just the speed. It's that both can live in the same house pretty comfortably. Everson Griffin, who was a great defensive end at USC played in the NFL for a long time, was running down on kickoff as like

the R4. You think of like that wedgebuster spot, but he was the first guy down on kickoff as like the R4, you think of like that wedge buster spot, but he was the first guy down on kickoff every single time. A guy who if you were to put him next to me, even as a 300 pounder in the prime of my life, looked bigger because physically his body comp was in such a different place. And I watched him run a four or four down the field and full pads and airlift other grown men off of their feet in a given time, like seeing that in person crystallized for me, just how different the jump is, even from college, this world where you're around big, impressive, super physical athletes to that, like guys like that, guys like, uh,

Quentin Nelson, who's the star left guard from the Indianapolis Colts, him and Mike McGlinchew plays for the Broncos, Quentin's like six,'s like 65320 and has borderline six pack abs. And Mike McGlinchee's six, eight, three hundred and fifteen pounds. Same thing. Chisel that a marble. I walked into the weight room once at Notre Dame when they were both there after I was done playing. So the same locker room I had been in, the same weight room I had been in, the same sport

I had played in Quintin and I in theory played the same position. And I walked in. I was like, if these guys didn't hadn't met me before, they would kick my ass and throw me out of here. Like I was just some random kid from campus that had wandered in because size-wise, even in the same sport, we were just in such different stratosphere that I looked and wondered how I had ever played at that level, the same game that these guys were playing. So it's amazing the things that guys walk out of the hospital with in these sports. The thing that you mentioned is it's not the size. The size you get used to after

well, it's the speed. It's the idea that we've been conditioned our entire lives. It's something that large doesn't move fast. And then you see it move. So for me, it's shack. I told the shack's were a million times, but just Shaq. First of all, most basketball players, what people say when they see them up close is they're always shocked how slender they look, right? They look big on TV, but in real life because they're so tall, you walk away feeling, look very slender, even a guy like Charles Oakley looks slim compared to what you think he looks like. But then you see the move. So Shack is one of those guys who he doesn't look slender.

He looks every bit as large of a human being as you think he's on TV. I've told you before, by the way, every time someone comes away from meeting Shack, knowing who Shack is, knowing that when you think Shack, you think size, everyone still says after meeting Shack, he's so big like, it's almost the only thing. It's the first thing you think about him. People don't understand the, not just the height, the surface area. With the surface area.

Doesn't matter what direction he's facing. If he's standing between you and a not, you will not see the object. You just won't see it, right? But then you get into a situation where he's here and then he has to be there and it's, and it's, you can't, I can't express how shocking it is. It is shocking how fast he moves, how explosive it is.

And this is, I got old broken down check. I can't imagine what Orlando or early Laker's shack was like where he was just almost flying around. But I think as I talk this out in my brain, Dan, I think that's the thing with all the athletes. It's the quickness. It's that's the thing that blows your mind. Cause I remember watching like Eric Bletso dribble down the court

and he looked like everyone else was in slow motion and he was sped up. And that's the thing that I don't think ever translates to on TV. Like if you see now in Iverson live, you begin to understand like, oh, that's why no one can guard him. Like you can't even see him. He just looks like Sonic the Hedgehog.

Well, I think what you said, Dan, about the proportions. It's all relative. So what we're seeing, when you watch sports, you are seeing big guys go up against big guys, run quickly against other guys who are also running quickly. And you become ennored to it. And being there in person, the flatness of a television, somehow takes away part of the breath taking physical

ability that you're watching like I when I first started covering sports and I went to my first to cover the first NBA game. I was I couldn't talk about anything else for like a week after I was like these guys are so big and everyone was like right right, they play in the NBA. And then when I was covering college football, like anytime I was at an Alabama game, and I stood as close as I could to the O-Line men who were warming up to try to take a selfie, to be like, first scale. And it doesn't work, but I'm like, no, I need to,

I need some physical way to explain to people the physicality of these people. I think it a step further. Yeah. He's all about the athletes. The playing surface. You know how many people I know play pickup ball say, Hey, we're going to play on an NBA court today. He's like no idea how far the three point line is.

It doesn't have any idea. Then forget about the three point line. Just running from one end to the other end because newsflash splash the lifetime fitness court that you play is not a regulation link like that is a long-ass distance to go from three point line to three point line on an NBA court let alone baseline to baseline. Same thing with a football field. I saw this clip from a couple weeks ago, guy to Colorado game and he was supposed to sprint in a hundred yards and like after yard 12, he pulled the muscle and then he had to hobble the rest of the way. These, the bench into these playing services are immense, man. And we don't respect it because all of these

people are huge giants that also are faster than anything we've ever seen. It's why and Charlotte mentioned her college football tour and everyone here has been down in some former and some job court side or on the sideline of a game. As soon as you start working in the media, you should be required. If you're going to cover football, go stand on the sideline and watch a game. I got done playing and two months later went back as a fan for my first Notre Dame game and I was on the sideline and two guys got cleaned off onto the sideline, like tackled out of bounds four feet from me and I looked at my buddy and I went, how the hell did we do this?

It's so insanely fast and violent when you're removed from the perspective of being in the lines that it gives you that whole new appreciation for every play. What is happening in a way that's totally outside most of our physical ability? 1000%. I, one of the early like profiles I did was going to Julian Edelman was putting on like a football clinic for women at Gillette Stadium and I was like, let's go see what this is. It actually ended up being like sort of great, which was, but anyway.

And I was sitting with him like, there's some downtime and I kept like rubbing his arm and it was on a Monday and they played the day before and I was like, are you okay? He was like, yeah, I mean, it's like getting into a car crash every Sunday, but you said this a budget time. That's what it sounds like. It sounds like a car accident that. Oh, oh, well, it's one thing for Golek to be saying this. No, no offense because he's saying he's walking into a weight room and the people are physically something else than what he even imagined as someone who came from this world. But I stood on a sideline with Ricky Williams who says that to be a warrior, you almost have to not consider consequences in order to even sign up for it. But he stood on the sideline the same way 10 years afterward and had the same commentary that you did, which is how did I do this? That's crazy.

What those human beings are doing out there. But the reason I bring it up, all of these size and dimension things, I mean, is because even all of that said, even with the understanding that the court and the field seem large to us, but the athleticism on it is making a basketball court and a football court be too confining for the athleticism that is

out there because they make those things look smaller than they are when banyama when I'm watching him the only comps I have I go past LeBron to shack in orlando when he dribbled the length of the court because what I'm looking at looks like it was delivered from space I have no reference point for how does that move like that when it's seven foot five and nobody wants to take a jump shot when it's approaching because it's larger physically than anything those guys have seen. And then this is the most primitive version of it. That's the scary part.

This is Wemba Nyama with zero work done on him. Give it three years. Remember what Yana looked like when he was a rookie versus Yana's when he won most improved. I won't even get to MVP. It's muscles on muscles and incredible strength from this twig. And that's where Webñama is right now.

He's at the beginning of this journey. He's 19 years old. He is real thin. But right now the gift that he has, he has two gifts that are immediately noticeable. One is the quickness, right? The ability to close space with his actual speed and the other is his length. So guys are used to playing basketball. I catch, I'm at the three point line.

The defender is there. That is more than enough time for me to get this shot off. And they're finding out against that dude. No, it's not because he doesn't have to get to hear the contest. He can stop over there and just go and he's already there. The play that I think everyone saw it went viral was him dunking on Thomas Brian of the Miami Heat. And Thomas Brian turns around and looks like he looks terrified. He looks like an alien just landed and started laser beaming everyone, right?

Now, here's the crazy one that I did not realize, shout out to Dragonfly Jones to point it out. He dunked it from outside the restricted area. Not he took off from outside the restricted area. He never broke the plane of the restricted area and just reached from outside it into it's cartoon inspector gadget. It's space jam. It's the scene in space jam where they're all holding Michael Jordan back and his arm just extends and it dunks in anyway. Well, when I extend in my arm to try to get to Victor's victor, my close personal friends, to Wemben Yamis chin, I couldn't even reach his chin at the draft.

So it's staggering. He should have been holding the mic. Well, there you go. Thanks in hindsight. Wow, what a Monday morning quarterback. It's a day even Monday morning. It's months later quarterback. Don Lebertard.

He said while you were off there while the connection was bad he had mentioned that you have lost a lot of weight and that he admires that what got into you? Why did you decide? I thought it was all I thought we enjoyed being about the monkey. Yeah. Oh it's luring again. Okay the connection is bad again unfortunately. Back to mag this. Okay backus and this is going about as well. As if you go, thank you Billy again for laughing in my face. Stugats. Magnus Magnus. I have much to say.

Can you ask me? Yes, we can hear you. Hello. Yes sir, action. Hello. Action. Man, I'm really sorry. This is literally the worst way to ever do this.

This is burning my heart that this is happening. But if you could hear me, just understand, I'm sorry. This is the Dan Levatar Show with the Stugats. Show me in 93 other people better than Russell Westbrook and NBA. I'll wait. You got two people on the list that I played one **** NBA minute. How the **** are they better than Russ? Who's that, who the who the two? Wim being scooped **** are they better than Russ? Who's that who the who the two

win be in school? Oh, better than Russ. They got what's 94, dog. Oh, they had what's name at 47? Wim be at 47. Are you **** me? Crazy. That's crazy. Come on, let's stop the **** in Madness. So his preseason, so his summer league in his preseason was better than Russ Liza. I got real life. This is a career. His career. Like get the fuck out of here, man. Like you fucking idiots over there doing this bullshit, man. Like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, world, which makes no sense. It's Gilles Arena is the name of the podcast with Gilbert Arena and he's got an assortment of characters because I would not have thought to put Rashad McCans and Kenyan Martin on

a podcast together, but it's fun. And Kenyan Martin is unhinged about a top 100 list. I think I saw and I'm going to assume that Mitchell Robinson was joking. He came in at number 100 on the list and then said immediately, I'm him. I'm going to, I'm going to guess. I'm going to guess he was, he was, he was joking there. That was the laugh of my goal. It's so good. He's here with Charlotte Wilder and Amino Hasson, but I wanted to talk to Amin and Charlotte about the list specifically and to mic about why it is we get so enraged by lists, but why is Kenyan Martin that mad

about Russell Westbrook being left off of that list? Amin. Uh, because that was what that list was designed to do. It's designed to make people interact and get angry and create content out of it. I take people behind the scenes on this NBA rank, which is, I believe, what they're quoting there, was legitimately created because there's a dead point in the calendar where there's no content. There's no trades, usually there's no free-gen signings. We need to talk about something. Let's rank all the NBA players. It is nothing

more than the listicle to end all listicles just for the content sake. And the way it works at least at ESPN, I don't know how it works at the different outlets, but your writers and everyone that get sent a link and it basically does a series of bajillion one on one things. Would you rather have Scoot Henderson or Vittor O'Meñamo? Would you rather have Tyree's Hall of Burton or Rudy Gobert? And you answer, well, this guy, that guy, this guy, this guy. And then after that, the algorithm pulls out and basically says, based on all of these answers from all these people, this is how they were handcuffed. It's not like people are saying, yeah, I'd rather have scoot than Russell Westbrook.

It's just that's how it went from asking this question over and over again. So Kenyan's upset because, and I remember this, this was the same way when Kobe was ranked low on this, no, how could you say these guys had been in Kobe? Like, well, first of all, Kobe's coming back from the Killy's injury. And these guys are gonna play,

and he's gonna miss most of you. That's what this thing the Killy's injury. And these guys are going to play and he's going to miss mostly. That's what this thing is about is who would you rather have pretty much. So there is a level of the, I've from players of it's irreverent. How dare you say that Russell Westbrook isn't as good as a rookie. I do think though that then it reminds me of the GM survey, which we talked about on on ball, which you can catch on the draft King's network at 530 every day per money. Um, where in Saturday and Sunday, well, not every day. That's every day.

That's every day. Days of rest. There's no light. It's not like college game days like, well, you don't do not, not Sunday through Thursday. We're not on Saturday. Um, no, but because the way that you're describing that specifically, would you have, rather have this person over this person? To me, that isn't necessarily who is the best player.

To me, that is, who would you rather have on your team right now? And I think that's why you end up with stuff like, Wemba Nyama at what, 46 and Russ at 93, because it's like the GM survey where they say, who, if you could build your franchise around any player, who would it be? And you get like an Anthony Edwards there. And it's like over, over Steph. And it's because of the age. It's because of the potential that they're factoring in.

Women yellow hasn't played an NBA game yet. A real one. And so I think that it gets, it's not actually the best players. It's actually the most promising guys, right? It's not meant to be the best. I said, that's the thing. It's not meant to do anything other than we're doing it right now. These lists are designed to gaslight all of us. Yes. In any given sport, like this happens with me with the NFL top 100 list every year.

Zach Martin, who is my former team at Notre Dame, who's been alignment for the Dallas Cowboys, is going to retire and be one of the three best players to ever play his position. In the history of the sport, that's not my opinion, that's just a reality. He's an instant walk-in hall of famer. And in every year, I watched him rank down in like the 50s and the 40s, and it feels like gaslighting because the lists are designed to attack the one or two convictions I have with a big sample size and a bunch more opinions to make me feel like I don't know what I'm talking about. When I'm one or two things, I know what I'm talking about.

And I'm so sure of it that I'm gonna war against this list. Every year it comes out even though I know it's designed to do this to my brain. At least though, in the case of offensive guard play, most people watching have no level of expertise on how it is to examine what that person is. Russell Westbrook, when it comes to a basketball list, the resume is not up for dispute, but

I mean, if we were to be picking a team today, everyone listening to this would take Wemba Nyama over Russell Westbrook because we're talking about a future against the past. And one of the things that I wanted to ask you about when it comes to a player with a past, I think the Van Gundies have both said that the toughest thing in sports to coach is an aging superstar. So in Miami, we're on that GM list. I think Eric Spolster was voted best coach, best adjustments, best leader of men, like four different categories in coaching

Eric Spolster got. And when Kyle Lowry got to camp, Kyle Lowry says, I expect to be the starting point guard. And Eric Spolster said, uh, I haven't put him at starting point guard yet. Can you explain to me or the audience how difficult it must be to coach a Russell Westbrook who has overcome odds all his life. And the last thing to go is the confidence that he sees in the mirror, that he's going to always expect to be a superstar. And I don't know how impossible he would be to coach.

If he still thinks he's one of the best players in the game and it's only politics or something else that's keeping him from being as great as he's always been. Because I don't think self-awareness serves them and I don't think, generally speaking, I don't think self-awareness about where your weaknesses are is something that serves people who are really great at what they do. I think luckily for Tai Lu, the economics dictated it, right? Russell S. B. you're one of the best players in the game, but you're here on a, on a, like on an exception.

You're not here earning 30 or 40. So the money dictates it. Not only the money, but like how you're free agency way. Russell Westberg can say, hey, I didn't want to go anywhere else. I like being here, I like playing here. That's why I didn't even entertain going anywhere else. But the reality is, if the Houston Rock had said, hey, the deal that we were going to give to Fred Van Blee will give

it to you, Russ, I think you would have taken it. I think you, like that, at that level, I think the money is something of a metric, not of how good you are, but where your places and is in the league right now, you have to accept. This is what your role is gonna be. And so there's an acceptance there that maybe Cala, or you came on a three year $90 million deal, and this is the last year of his deal, isn't ready to accept that yet. But we know once he becomes a free agent

at the end of the season, wherever he ends up, he's gonna be that guy. I was like, hey, a good vet in the locker room. A guy who can come in and run my second unit, but he's not a starting caliber point guard. I don't think at this point, but as you point it out, particularly for a Kyle Lauer, even more so than the Russell Westbrook, I think the lack of self-awareness is completely necessary. Because again, going back to a conversation we had about the size of these guys, Kyle Lauer, while he is a chunky boy, as they say,

he's not that much taller than me. I think he's my height. So in order for someone, my height, who isn't gifted with a 38 inch vertical or is it supposed to first step to survive, you have to have a lack of self-awareness because if you were somebody like, when am I doing here?

I don't belong here. And so that's the kind of weird balancing act that a guy like him has to have. And when you're, Eric Sposter, your balancing act is, how do I keep his spirit and his confidence high, not undercut him completely, while still maintaining what I believe to be true, which is you serve us best in this role, not that one. It's, it's also so specific to the player. I mean, we saw what happened with the Sixers and James Harden, who was quote, asked to sacrifice. And then he holds it over everybody's head for the whole season. And he's an aging superstar

who can't seem to accept that. And I think that if you want to have longevity past that point where everyone's like, Oh, I's him to quote, who Mitch Robinson, um, you know, then you have to be able to make some concessions while still thinking you're the greatest, which is kind of a mind, kind of a very difficult thing to have both of those things in your head at the same time. Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Durknavitsky, Duane Wade after pain, lots of pain got him to that place. Carmelo Anthony after lots of pain, pain got him to that place. Vince Carter, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, like that, it's happened.

It's happened, but we also know the other side of that coin, Kobe Bryant didn't want to do it and ended up playing on bad Laker teams for the rest of his career because he could not accept, hey, in order for us to move forward, I have to be a lesser than I remember, I don't know if you remember this. When Wade was before he left, I was the one saying Wade's got to take a step back and you guys will, it was that playoff series where they were down three in Charlotte and the purple shirt game I think and then he and Spowe draws up the game winning player. They're down to the browser the game winning play for Wade's shoot the three and I'm like he hasn't

hit a three-sister December like what are we doing here and yeah he hit the shot and they won the game right. But the reality is the heat had reached the place where we can either fulfill Duane Wade's vision of himself as I'm the star, I do all the things, whatever. And he'll put up the numbers and he'll look good. We won't be that good. Or he can accept, hey, there's got to be a changing of the guard and you have to help usher this thing in as KG and Tim Duncan and some of these other guys did and we can become a greater version of ourselves. And they couldn't any left. And then when he came back, he was the version that they needed. Humboldt humbled by the experience of bouncing around the league a little bit. Charlotte,

what was the very tangible, obvious empirical gleam in your eye when the name Jeff Van Gundy was mentioned. Oh my dude. Jeff Van Gundy was just hired as a senior consultant for the Celtics, which I was very excited about because the Celtics. But he's also going to be spending time in Maine with their G. Lee Giffiliate and a lot of my family is in Maine. And I think it might have been the first time I've ever read the word Maine in an ESPN article. And it was just, it was a very exciting moment for me. You know what they're called? The Red Clause.

The Red Clause, that's right, because lapses. They like lapses up there. And I also think about Jeff and Gandhi holding on to Alonzo mornings legs. That was the gleam. That was the gleam. That was not Maine. That was the gleam. That was the gleam. That was not mean. That was the gleam.

It was the leg. It's holding on. I don't think enough is discussed about that. Where did that come? When did that come into your life? Because you must have been very young when that happened, when it actually happened. Do you remember?

Do you remember video afterward? I remember video after it. I remember being so shocked that this had happened that someone, you know, someone's like, Oh, well, you know, Jeff and Gandhi alone some morning blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, no, I don't. And they show me the video. And, and I watched it again yesterday. And it's insane. That's insane. And he comes storm out his hair's all rough. And then he's just on the ground,

holding onto some guy's leg. The idiocy of fandom. I was a Nick fan at the time and when it happened, I defended Jeff and Gandhi. I was like, yes, he's tough. One of the great things that came from that was Jamal Mashburn. I just remember this distinctly after the game saying Jamal Mashburn for some reason was on his side on the floor and seeing the size of Morning's calves when Van Gundy was holding onto them, Mashburn was quoted as

saying, I thought there was a horse on the court.