The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - Hour 1: ...McConkey...

Episode Date: September 26, 2024

We kick things off with Thursday Thunder ahead of tonight's game between the Dallas Cowboys and New York Giants on Thursday Night Football. If the Cowboys lose tonight, how loud with the Bill Belichick noise get? Also, Amin learns about Ladd McConkey. Then, the mention of Archie Bunker leads the crew down a path as the Shipping Container learns about the plot of All In The Family and the Jeffersons before debating the greatest TV theme songs of all-time. Plus, Paola Ramos is here to discuss her book "Defectors: The Rise of the Latino Far Right." She and Dan dive into the story of Enrique Tarrio, a Miami-Cuban who was leader of The Proud Boys, and how Latinos in America can be swayed into have an anti-immigration stance. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Stay tuned because you'll hear all about DraftKings and all it has to offer throughout the show. DraftKings, the crown is yours. Tony, what do we got? Guys, I cooked up a parlay for Thursday Thunder. We've got the NFL tonight, Thursday Night Football, Dallas Cowboys, and the G-Men, Amin's favorite team, the New York Giants, the one jersey that he owns, Plaxico Burris jersey, from New York Giants.

All right, this is what we got cooked up. First leg, Devin Singletary, who had a nice game against the Browns, 65 yards rushing against a better defense than what Dallas has. We're going to have 50 yards, over 50 yards rushing for Devin Singletary tonight against Dallas. We saw the big dog run all over them last week 50 yards and over second leg of the parlay CD lamb the squeaky wheel always gets the grease Dano 70 yards receiving over for CD lamb tonight and the last one I saved the

best for last because this guy is a budding superstar and I don't know if Dallas's defense can defend him the way they want Malik neighbors anytime Tuddy tonight Malik neighbors so that's Devin Singletary over 50 yards C.D. Lamb over 70 yards receiving Malik neighbors anytime Tuddy and that gives you a beautiful plus 305 tonight for Torosito. It happens quickly in that league where a Tyreek Hill can get erased and the conversation starts about his neighbors, the second best receiver in the league because he doesn't appear to be someone who is stoppable. But Tony has come in today and he has said something that I believe is never

worthy of being said in week four, he has announced that tonight is a must-win for the Dallas Cowboys. A must-win situation because then the flames start climbing. Already people are saying this is all Jerry Jones' fault and he says that's totally fair. It all my fault I'm responsible for everything not a decision gets made that I don't sign off on and the Belichick talk will be full-throated by the end of this evening if the Cowboys lose tonight. Dan you're looking at the Cowboys vs. the Giants a division game on top of that you're looking at your roster and being like, all right, we have a team that can contend now,

that's ready now, we paid guys to be ready to contend for Super Bowl now. And you look across the way, and you see the Giants, who are terrible. And then you look up at the scoreboard, and you're like, damn, we're both one and two. And all of a sudden, the screams are gonna be much, much louder for mccarthy

If you lose to a giants team that has Daniel jones at quarterback a bunch of guys and malik neighbors But if this is a must win for these cowboys if they don't win tonight Then they can beat the steelers next week can be two and three. That's right And uh you have them beating the number one defense of the league Okay, you uh the cowboys say that they are all in and you say that the Giants are terrible, but they should have beaten the commanders if their kicker doesn't get hurt and if neighbors makes a fourth down catch that he's going to make the rest of his career.

So the Giants, I understand why people underestimate them, but if you have the second best receiver in the league, those receivers for the Giants have been really limited the last couple of years. And you're doing something. If you play with Daniel Jones in three weeks in, people are putting you in the sphere where Justin Jefferson exists. Because the way, there's not another receiver in the league

that's being talked about this way after three games. From the rookie class absolutely not but when you can like almost save a career in Daniel Jones with a wide receiver like that it just goes to show you how good you are that you elevate a guy that is deemed not good. Lad McConkey with like a word. That can't be a real name. That's a receiver a white receiver. The last white receiver around. With a name like that, has to be. His name is Lad. L-A-D-D.

And the last name might be a slur. McConkey? Jeremy, why are you laughing? That's something I would call Jeremy. Shut up, McConkey. Whoa, you're right. But when you put a second D on the Lad, it makes it less bad with two Ds.

B-A-D-D. There are only three players to have 300 plus area yards over the last two weeks in the NFL. They're all rookies. Marvin Harrison Jr., Roma Dunze, and Malik Nabors. It's crazy what this rookie wide receiver class is doing, including, of course, Lad McConkie. And they told us it would be so.

They told us that this is the best draft class at receiver we have seen in a long time. Before I segue into other matters, I haven't said this in a while. I don't think I have said this since we were at ESPN. But I am asking the people who support this show to support the people who support us best when I mention that Miller Lite understands what we're trying to do around here and supports

it in a way that deserves the support of our most supportive customers. Because what Miller Lite has done for this show in helping us arrive in a place where we have safety and freedom during a very difficult media time is something that we couldn't possibly appreciate more when we need the sponsorship and backing as an independent of sponsors who really believe in us. And it tastes good.

Oh, it's just such a damn good light beer. Don't listen to us, don't support us, just support good taste and less filling. Can I ask you guys if the segment that we just did with Pablo Torre is something that the audience is simply tired of? Because I do feel like Dan Quixote tilting against windmills, trying to believe in something

that slowly dies by the day, which is the idea of local newspapers holding accountable the Eric Adamses of the world so that it becomes a little bit harder to be corrupt because there's something out there that is trying to do the right thing in calling truth to power. I do feel that I'm beating a dead horse and worse than that, it's the audio equivalent of beating a dead horse.

Nobody wants to actually hear what it is that we're talking about. They just wanna have fun with sports. I mean, I care a lot, but that should actually probably show you the barometer of the audience. Shut up Jeremy! Shut up McConkey! By the way, lad's first name, Andrew.

Not as fun. Put it on the poll please, does McConkey sound like a slur? Because I do feel like I can hear Eddie Murphy say that in like Beverly Hills comp just calling Taggart McConkey instead to insult him. I don't understand why it sounds like a slur. You went Eddie Murphy, Beverly Hills Cop, I went George Jefferson to his neighbor, the guy from the British guy.

So even older. Tom Willis. Tom Willis. Tom Willis who I believe was married in the Jefferson's to Lenny Kravitz's mom. Mom, yes. No, I was talking about the other guy the the the Bentley the neighbor the UN guy that it was British British guy Yeah, the neighbor Bentley. I have no idea what you guys are talking about

Does I get it? Beverly Hills cop was a good reference from 50 years ago Well, the Jeffersons is even older than that But I can make an argument for the Jeffersons is one of the top 10 most impactful sitcoms of all time. It was, in fact, I don't think I have this wrong. I believe that The Jeffersons was not merely a spin-off of All in the Family with Archie Bunker, but that was such an outdated time in television

that I'm pretty sure in All in the Family that Archie Bunker actually used the N-word on television. Of course! Of course! What are you talking about? All in the Family was, but the funny thing about All in the Family was when they made the show, the idea was that Archie Bunker was supposed to be this buffoon that everybody would laugh at.

Look at this dinosaur of a man, kind of looking at him like he's Homer Simpson, like this idiot. And instead, they got mounds of love mail saying, finally, someone who talks like, oh my god. I feel so bad that people made that show. They try to make the most cartoonishly buffoonish idiot, racist, sexist, everything. And instead, they got fan mail.

So All in the Family, the kind of plot for it is what? Because I've never seen the show, I've also never seen the Jefferson show. Okay, so All in the Family is about this working class white family, Archie Bunker is his wife Edith. Put it on the poll please, Are we still making Edith's? Absolutely, not it's an old person. You come out 70 years old. Your name is Edith Who's the youngest Edith? How old is the youngest Edith an 84? I just like they have a 27 year old you know

No, no, no, they study discontinued to eat this right in 1977 put it on the pole. Did they discontinue Edith's in 1977. Put it on the poll, did they discontinue Edith's in 1977? So, by the way, the son on that show is the famous Rob Reiner, who is the son of Carl Reiner, great filmmaker. So anyways, so it's just kind of like, a day in the life of working class, I believe they were in Queens. One of the side bit characters

was this guy named George Jefferson, who was a dry cleaner, right? The spin off in the Jefferson's is that George Jefferson's dry cleaning business turns into a dry cleaning empire, becomes rich and hence he moves up to. Well he's moving on up. Yes. Thank you.

To a deluxe apartment in the sky. All I know is it's kind of like Beverly Hillbillies, but just different. Yeah, I mean not really, like Beverly Hillbillies, but just different? Yeah, I mean, not really. Because Beverly Hillbillies, they found oil and they became rich, right? Whereas George Jefferson, it's like, he built it brick by brick, like my man from Snowfall, right?

So now he's got this chain of dry cleaners. He lives in this fancy apartment building. But it's the culture clash of now I'm around all these white people, because I'm a rich black person who's still very black and I got to deal with all these white people who are my neighbors and stuff. As the mayor of New York told us you can start a business there. That's who he was talking about, George Jefferson. Howdy folks it's Mike Ryan I want to talk to you about the great taste of Miller Lite. Gonna cut right to it today because it's football season as you know and there's nothing more American than football

and Miller Lite. It's a perfect pairing. I mean even chefs would agree that this is better than any dish I can cook up. The way that Miller Lite hits your tongue when there's gridiron action happening, there's just nothing like it. And to know that you're holding that beautiful white can is to know that not only are you getting great taste, but you are also getting beer that is less filling. Why don't you join me? Drink this beer while you're watching football and spend less time thinking about what you're drinking and spend more quality time with your friends.

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Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 96 calories per 12 ounces. Fewer cows and carbs than premium regular beer. Don Lebertard. To us residents. Oh wow, it's in there, it's better. You think I haven't been practicing? Stugats. Don Lebatard to us residents This is the Don Lebatar show with the StuGards Yesterday I did not have this as a detour today Tony You don't know how much you delighted Amin by asking the questions in his wheelhouse of 1970s television, but then to, like, I wasn't alive

when these things aired, but I am the last generation, I believe, where we watched things that were created decades earlier. So I grew up on Looney Tunes. Everybody watched Looney Tunes. Everybody watched Tom and Jerry. And these cartoons were made sometimes in the late 50s, early 60s.

But we all had the same reference points up until like the generation, I think my little sister, her generation, they grew up on cable TV, and so you had this explosion of other options, and maniacs and all this stuff, and Powerpuff Girls and all that, and because you have that,

it's like I'm not watching the same old cartoons everybody else has watched, and now it's completely fragmented but I watched mash I watched all in the family I watched what do you call it the Jeffersons I watched good times not because they were contemporary but because everybody watched the same shows I watched the honeymooners I watched leave it to beaver all these shows put it on the pole, please juju at lebatard show Uh is the jefferson's a top 10 sitcom of all time? Yes or no because I do believe that tony might do to the jefferson's what he did to ricky henderson Which is it happened before my time therefore it cannot be a top 10 sitcom of all time because it happened

Much before I was born i'd have to think about that. I have to do my top 10. Jefferson's probably not gonna make it, spoiler alert. But, because I've never seen it. But, Tom and Jerry, we can all talk about it now, right? Man. Ass. Man, what? Tom and Jerry sucks, right?

No, no, Tony! Right? Tom and Jerry sucks, right? Put it on the poll, please. As a 10 year old kid, I was like, eh. All right, at LeBittard's show, is Tom and Jerry sucks, right? Put it on the poll, please. As a 10-year-old kid, I was like, ugh. All right, at Levitard Show, is Tom and Jerry ass? We have a disrespect around here that is not palatable to me, because Jeremy, in the shadows before, as Chris Cote was,

that was confetti. Confetti just fell. Confetti fell. Confetti fell out of the sky. For my take, thank you guys. I appreciate it. Confetti just fell out of the sky. That was confetti that was shot off when we joined Peacock.

Like that was weeks ago that that happened and confetti just fell out of the sky that was there from before. But what I was saying is that Jeremy whispered in the shadows with not a small amount of shame when Chris Cody was talking about not wanting to see and not ever having seen any Indiana Jones, he too and not ever having seen any Indiana Jones. He too said he has not seen any Indiana Jones.

How? Because it missed my time period. I grew up and my dad wasn't like a obsessed fan of Indiana Jones, neither was my mom. I didn't really watch a lot of action movies from their era and so in turn I Just haven't seen it. There's so many movie franchises that I haven't seen that you would be shocked by the Godfather I've seen the Godfather. I mean, that's like my dad's favorite movie. So in turn I was I was indoctrinated

Your father was like Indiana Jones mafia movies for sure much action, but action movies and sports movies So I grew up with like every sports movie Oh my god, I watch the VHS of like rookie of the year. I must have watched 75 times before the age of 10 I'd rather you tell me I don't we didn't grow up watching movies So I haven't seen any of these movies and then tell me you watch rookie of the year a million times Little big league are you kidding me and never seen Raiders of the Lost Ark? Never in my life. What's a less realistic sports movie? Rookie of the Year or Air Bud?

Come on. I mean a little big league at 12 year olds is the manager of the twins. The throw that he makes when he finds out his arm is strong from the outfield, in the bleachers, all the way to the catcher's glove is just, he doesn't even like crow hop, he just has his arm like this and is like,

all right, Let me go Ridiculous throw I mean air buds more realistic Playing the NBA playing basketball he struck out Barry bonds night nice little jumper For all the times that I've been you know laughed at or scorned or whatever for not knowing things past a certain point There's a lot of things that I know past a certain point in a very different sphere, right? Like Indiana Jones, super locked in. Any Eddie Murphy movie from the 80s, super locked in. Back to the Future, super locked in.

There's things that are in my wheelhouse, it's just Ricky Henderson stealing 130 bags in 1982, not one of them. The Jeffersons, not one of them. Also not one of them. Say this, I don't know if it's, I watch the Jeffersons, I don't know if it's a top 10 sitcom, maybe in terms of impact, yes, but in terms of just,

is it one of the best 10 sitcoms ever made? I don't know, I do know this, the theme song. Gasps. It's probably top three. The best, if it's top three, it's third, because you will not beat Sanford and Son, and you will not beat Hawaii Five-O. You will not beat either one of those.

I think both of them get beat. No. They don't have lyrics. You're absolutely right. How do I sing along to? Ta ta ta ta ta ta. Ta ta ta ta ta. Just like that.

Ta ta ta ta ta ta. Just like that. Ta ta ta ta ta ta. If you want instrumentals, let me tell you right now. Bow no no no no no no no no no no no no no. You're saying, you're saying no no no no, exactly. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You're saying it. You're saying no, no, no, no. Exactly.

No, if you want instrumental only, Magnum P.I. has all those beats. There you go. Come on. To a deluxe apartment in the sky. Even people haven't seen it. So wait a second. They made this theme song. This is not a song that was originally made for something else.

They made this theme song for is not a song that was originally made for something else they made this theme song for the Jeffersons Tony you're you're just open the door for me here to talk about one of my favorite things once upon a time kids television shows had their own theme song they didn't play popular music oh this song is hot right now play this they didn't play like a little ditty and then you just get into the show they had had a whole ass song. A whole ass song that was sung and it was relevant, but those are a distant, a distant, look at this. You're... Come on, man.

Come on. It's not the Jefferson's. It is better. Put it on the pole, Juju. Better television theme song, the Jefferson's or Hawaii Five-O. And I believe this was by Jack Lord wasn't this by my personal Lord was this not Quincy Jones did Quincy Jones not do Sanford and Son yes he

did sample this on us so let's do Sanford and Son here Indiana scones I don't want Hawaii 5 oh again that is a classic though it's just so good it is welcome Dan oh it's not better than it's not well this is this is a good subject matter because you're saying lyrics are better than just the music carrying you away I didn't know this one's the best this I've heard this one before I just heard it. This one's the best Sanford and Son, right? Bum bum bum bum. Bum bum bum bum. Bum bum bum bum. Come on.

This is gas. It's nice and friendly. I like it. It's friendly. Jefferson's was uplifting, Dan. I felt uplifted when I I thought I could live in a deluxe apartment in the sky. Is this what you're talking about, Willis? No, that's a different stroke.

This is Sanford and Son. Sanford and Son was Red Fox as the owner of a junkyard and his son, well he played Fred Sanford, and his son was Lionel, was it Lionel? Yes, Lionel. Yeah. We are really getting older and older with this. You should, with different strokes,

you should just read about it because it's a Greek tragedy, what happened to all of those child actors where Gary Coleman was the most normal of them. I believe I won a suey one year about telling the story of getting up in front of everybody at a Christmas party at the Suns and saying I wanted to translate an ancient Sudanese poem. And then I just simply just recited the different strokes theme song

But I did without singing I just said the world does not move to the beat of just one Yeah, I remember this this is good and at the end of it everyone was like, oh my god That was so moving. I was like none of you guys got the reference really nobody Except one guy in sales sent me an email the next day said the episode where they go to the bike store I was like, oh, you got it. I do have one theme song from more modern television that I would put in this category. The Wire.

No. No, that's the one. That's the soprano. That's awesome. I just wanted to be Tony Soprano here. I think this is an actual song though. I don't think that this was. Yeah, but just that.

I don't think that this was. Oh, but wait a minute. Yeah, that. Wait a minute. What about't the count of a minute. Wait a minute. What about Succession? It's about the vibes. When you hear the song, it's about the vibes.

And this song was the vibes. The way Succession used that song was amazing because they used that song 100 different versions of that song. And it's one of the most clever things I've seen done musically in television. It is until you begin to realize it and every scene has the same stings and I'm like, I got tired of it. I'll tell you who has a great theme song that was not original music but it was music so original they picked it because it was free.

Curb your enthusiasm. All that stuff is royalty free music. Always Sunny also. Always Sunny as well. Same thing. They use royalty free music, which is pretty genius. It's genius because they took this royalty free music and they made it basically theirs.

They don't own it, but like when you hear that music from either one of those shows, you always think of them. Always Sunny essentially is all in the family, but 50 years later, right? Like they're the worst people in the world and you're supposed to know that but they've ended up actually replicating real people that exist in modern society. Just like Seinfeld. Seinfeld is the same thing. Seinfeld's series finale was all about how awful they are and people didn't get the joke. They're like what? Oh they're going to court? It's like yes because this entire time they've been

awful people and you guys have just been rooting for them. You have to know that when you listen to Succession, because I didn't even notice this the first time I watched Succession. It was only upon rewatching that I noticed that Greg, Greg the Egg, you have to, you know, in order to make an omelet, you gotta break a few Gregs. He always had different music than everyone else. Any time that he was in a scene. It was court jester music

I didn't even notice it until the second time I watched it We're gonna talk immigration next if you were bored and bothered by our journalism talk But let's spice it up with a little Hawaii five. Oh Howdy folks, it's Mike Ryan, now into fall. And what that means for me is traveling to see a lot of live football, especially college football. And thank goodness I have Game Time in my life because it makes getting tickets to these events even easier. Now they have a new feature called Game Time Picks that somehow makes already the easiest secondary ticket marketplace on the planet even easier.

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For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dkng.co.ftball. Don Lebertard! Did you get lost on the way to Home Depot today, Dan? Like what's going on with the flats? Get his ass, Mina! Stugots! on the way to Home Depot today, Dan? Like, what's going on with the plants? I've never seen- Get his ass, Mina. Stugots. But do it in song.

You look like you're about to ask me to check the oil on my car. Get him. Or come over and look around and point things in my house that need to be fixed. This is the Dan Lebatar Show with the Stugots. If you've been listening for a while, you know that I am somewhat confused by my people. I live in Miami and Cubans can go hard right politically in ways that confuse me, because I don't understand how you can be a part of the head of the Proud Boys

and be a white supremacist while you're being Hispanic. But there's a book here, and it's been written by Paola Ramos, and she's got a number of credentials that aren't. She descends from journalistic royalty, but her father is also I think the most famous Hispanic journalist that there is in this country Jorge Ramos but she has her own career she's made documentaries for vice she's a contributor on MSNBC and Telemundo she reports on Latino issues and she's building her own legacy in Latin media she's got a book defectors theors, The Rise of the Latino Far Right and What It Means for America. Thank you, Paola, for joining us. You're

from Miami and I found this book an interesting read for a number of reasons because I really don't understand what is happening with Hispanics. So I hope that you can explain it to me because I don't understand how Hispanics can become white supremacists. Well, I'll try my best. I'll try my best. I grew up in Miami, you know, and you mentioned Enrique Tarrio and so part of what actually drove me to write this book is precisely what you just laid out, no? How can someone like Enrique Tarrio, who's from Miami, who's a black Cuban, an Afro-Latino, how could someone like him not just be like pro-Trump,

no, we can sort of make the case why someone like him would do that, but then take it a step further and become the face and the leader of the Pride Boys. And we can talk about sort of my first impressions of him whenever you want. Well, I've got a number of different questions, but go ahead and start with him

because there seems to be such an overwhelming paranoia here that doesn't even make sense to me. And in your book, which is fantastically reported, you're on the border, basically, with a Latin person who is delighting in keeping other desperate Latin people out of the country by just spending nine hours in his car tracking and hunting these people who are trying to get to freedom.

Absolutely. So you mentioned, so the person you're mentioning, his name is Anthony Aguero and very much like someone like Enrique Dario and a lot of other folks that I've, that I've met, I think they're a reflection, an extremist reflection of what's happening in this country among a small but growing group of Latinos, no? And that is the fact that increasingly more and more Latinos are warming up to the idea of mass deportations and building a wall. And so how do you make sense of that? Well, I think Trumpism is really convinced about this idea that a segment of Latinos right now have become so Americanized, no one's so assimilated, that they too can sort

of buy into the nativism and the anti-immigrant rhetoric. And even if you just look at the numbers, Dan, like what you see is that the Latino community of today is so vastly different from like my father's generation, right, you're looking at Latino community where it is third generation Latinos, they're the fastest growing segment among us. You're looking at a community where most of us speak English, where the majority of voters are US born under the age of 50.

And so what I found in my reporting is that among that segment there is a small but growing group of people that even though they feel detached from their immigrant stories, they fear that sort of mainstream America will always see them as these sort of like perpetual foreigners. And even if you look at some of the stats, there's sort of some evidence to understand where people's fear is coming from. Not even if you just look at the anti-Latino hate crimes in this country. They have been steadily rising and they particularly spike when sort of mainstream media is extensively

covering things like, you know, there's an invasion at the southern border or the caravans are coming. No, or these immigrants son criminales. And so among some people like Enrique Tario or the sort of border vigilante that you just mentioned not only do they sort of feel in the anti-immigrant rhetoric really resonating with them but they're also driven very aggressively by this push to prove to people like Trump that they too belong in America and then that turns into forms of extremism.

Talk to me about the Proud Boys existing in Miami and I want to read a passage from your book to the people after you explain to me what Enrique was doing as the head of the Proud Boys and how proud he must have been when Donald Trump is saying out loud in a way that is unfathomable to me telling the proud boys to stand down and stand by absolutely so so i'm and they get that deal in twenty eighteen and so i kind of meet him at a time when he starts to kind of like feel himself

and feel his power but he wasn't there just yet so my first impression of india that you who by the way they grew up just a couple of minutes from where i did in my first impression was that this is a guy that is deeply insecure, you know, who sort of can hide who he is behind his sort of like macho, tough appeal. He does it really well, but he's someone that even according to him, he never really knew where he fit in Miami, you know? In his own words, he was always sort of like too black to be considered a Republican. He felt like he was too independent and too radical to be considered a Democrat. He always said this thing that like no one would ever knock on his door to ask for his vote, even among the

sort of Miami-Dade Cuban community, which is typically an exile community that looks more like me, no? Light skinned, sort of privileged Latinos. As a black Latino, he never really fit into that. And then come the pride boys. No, and the pride boys offer someone like Enrique Tario, not just the sudden sense of belonging, but power. No. And then you see the way that Enrique, and I saw it like happening in real time, how he suddenly evolves from being this like ordinary, you know, Cubano guy in

Miami to then suddenly becoming this guy that is being praised by Donald Trump, praised by Roger Stone, and he takes that power and runs with it. The funny thing, though, the sad thing is that come November 2020, after Enrique Tarrio tries absolutely everything to ensure that Donald Trump wins and he doesn't win, what's fascinating is the way that the Proud Boys, you have this guy called Kyle Chapman, that they instantly try and distance themselves from Enrique Tarrío and from his blackness and his brownness. One of the things that Kyle Chapman says when Enrique is sort of

no longer powerful, he says, you know what? The Proud Boys are actually have always been a group that's based on the white race. And he says in the white race alone and any other race has no place in this group. So that sort of shows you how tenuous that sort of idea of white power is. One of the things that my mother has said since I was a child as they came from communism is if you want to find out about a person's character give them power and the reason she used to say it is because when communism came to Cuba the neighbors who were given the government power to watch the other neighbors all of a sudden became Powerful in the ways that you're describing in this book and then abused the power of taking some of their identity that was given To them by the government. So let me read this from your interview with Enrique Tario

You say why define women as housewives? You asked him at one point, why not use another word? And this is something Latin men do all the time. Quote, because it's like the end goal for us. We're big on family. He said, family is a number one priority for us. He followed up. You need to step up as a man

and make sure that you provide for everyone in that household. As a man, that is your job. And then you write, I always got the sense that independent, strong, and outspoken women frightened and intimidated enrique i imagine that's why he reserved a special kind of vitriol for them he would frequently disrupt women's march events with his megaphone he'd make appearances wearing his signature dick costume essentially a

full body outfit that resembled a phallus he would constantly provoke women including with the use of transphobic slurs. He called Michelle Obama a tranny and refused to apologize despite the uproar that followed. What's happening there? It's just bravado that's wrapped around as armor the insecurity? That's part of it, but imagine down what it was for me.

I'm a lesbian, I'm a queer woman, I'm a Latina. I try and understand the privilege that comes with these platforms that I have. So I understand the lesbian, I'm a queer woman, I'm a Latina. I try and understand the privilege that comes with these platforms that I have. So I understand the power that I have and I always felt a sense of sort of discomfort that Enrique was feeling among people like me. And people like me are everywhere. We're just people that understand that we too

can sort of change the dynamic in this country. There was always something that sort of made him uncomfortable. But Enrique sort of alludes to what I try and find in this country. There was always something that sort of made him uncomfortable. But Enrique sort of alludes to what I try and find in this book. And it's the same conversation that I had with other sort of Latinos in Miami actually that also participated in the January 6th insurrection. And that is these men that were driven by the anti-immigrant sentiment that we just talked about, by the sort of fixation with going back to a time when these sort of gender

norms, you know, and these sort of more patriarchal norms were there and they're fixated by that idea. And then what you just mentioned is when I asked them, well, what was at the heart of what drove you to storm the Capitol that day? One of the main answers was, well, the United States is being taken over by communism. And if someone like Joe Biden won, then that means that this country would turn into communism. And that sort of paranoia, which obviously comes from a real political trauma that a lot of Latinos hold, that just shows you the way that it's been just so injected with misinformation that can truly, truly drive someone to do something as violent as storming the Capitol. No? You talked about in your book about early about

growing up in a Latino bubble and I'm curious if all this you know conversations that we're having how it sort of impacts the sort of Hispanic community today and how much we can sort or how rather we can sort of get some more education and just sort of for people who might still be in that little bubble and get them to sort of see a more education and just sort of for people who might still be in that little bubble And get them to sort of see a little bit more of a broader view the way you are explaining these things Yeah, so just for background like I I was born in Miami I grew up in Miami and when I say that I grew up in a bubble and I grew up sort of

Believing that to be a sort of Latina and a Cuban American in Miami meant that we all look like me. The sort of idea of black Cubans was always completely erased from the conversation. I was someone that even coming out, I felt a lot of shame at the beginning. I think because I was just so sort of trained to believe that I too had to marry a man, knowing that my Mexican and Cuban family wanted that for me.

And so I say this because it took me a while to sort of lean into the person that I too had to marry a man, knowing that my Mexican and Cuban family wanted that for me. And so I say this because it took me a while to sort of lean into the person that I am. And I think part of what I try and do in this book is explain, look, the way to understand the sort of shift among some Latinos that are finding something appealing in Trumpism actually has so much less to do with Trump and with MAGA and with politics. And it has so much more to do with all of the super uncomfortable conversations that

we just like never have as a community. And by that I mean like, what does it mean to have a lot of sort of like racial baggage from Latin America? And like how does that manifest in the United States? And like what does colorism mean? How do we even talk about race among Latinos? Like we kind of don't really know how to talk about that. By that I also mean like, what does it mean to really think about the weight of colonialism? I know it's like super abstract and super heavy,

but like that really impacted our community for centuries and centuries is like, what does it mean to also sort of carry that history? And then the last point that I make is, let's also talk about the like political trauma of something like communism, no? Communism will always be the sort of antithesis of what it means to be Latino. But that also justifies other forms of extremism that we just never catch because we're so used to just sort of hiding under the banner of being anti-communist. And so let's also talk about that. So that's that's what I'm trying to do. How much have you explored or explained that Hispanics generally tend to be Democrats,

but Cubans tend to be Republican? Look, that's always that's always the that's always been the pattern. I think the way that one can explain it is that to be to be a Cuban American, to be a Cuban, and I saw with my own family like that in and of itself. It means that you're so different from other Latinos, why? Because even our pathway to citizenship is so much easier than it is for any other demographic.

The way that Cubans have traditionally been welcomed in this country has always been with a lot more open arms than other Latinos. So I think that just as a starting point, that we can sort of like hide under that protection that America has always given us. I think that explains a lot of things. How did your dad feel about the book? He, I mean look, my dad is someone that no matter what I do he's always like, oh my god, I'm so proud of you. So I don't know how much, you know, like no matter what he'll always say

that, which I'll take, he's my dad. But no, look, I think what's interesting is that my dad is someone that has been doing this noticiero ni visión for, I don't know, like, more than my, I'm 36. I mean, he's been doing it for 38 years. And I think his audience has always truly been a Latino community that was really drawn to immigration, that, you know, you talk to them in Spanish, and that community is so vastly different from what it is now, no? I think the assumptions were always that that community was more perhaps progressive,

was more democratic leaning, no, that had more at stake when it comes to immigration. And so I think he's fascinated, as I am as well, by this idea of like, we have changed so much, and we don't even know really how to make sense of that. And who he talks to every day is so different from who I talk to every single day. And I think that's what's like super interesting for us right now. Do you have a plausible makes sense explanation for how Hispanics can be against immigration? And the the only explanation I have is that anti-immigrant sentiment and xenophobia, no one's immune

to that. Just because we're descendants of immigrants and just because we're Latinos, that in no way makes us immune to also having, like carrying these anti-immigrant sentiments. The fear and what we're hearing from someone like Donald Trump that every single day tries to create this idea that we're invaded, that immigrants are bad people, that immigrants are out there eating pets and dogs. I understand why people would be scared if that's what you hear every single day. I think our job is to ground people in the facts, get people to understand that even

statistically immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than US born natives. And so I understand where their fear comes, particularly when you have a Republican candidate that uses that megaphone every single day. And why is he doing that? Dan, well, that's exactly how he won the 2016 election. No, he made build the wall in his central message. And that's how he won in 2020. He toned it down.

And now here we are in 2024 where he's trying to make that the centerpiece of his campaign because he knows that it works. What was your initial reaction, immediate visceral reaction to the news that Donald Trump was talking about putting serial numbers on immigrants in something that felt a bit holocausty? It was, I mean, it was that.

It's even surreal that we're, like it is surreal that we're in 2024 immigrants in something that felt a bit holocausty. It was, I mean, it was that. It's even surreal that we're like, it is surreal that we're in 2024 and we're literally talking about this. Now, what's even more surreal is the idea that over 50% of Americans could actually fathom. I'm not even talking about being a Republican or Democrat, but that over 50% of Americans could even fathom

bringing this country back to those dark days. And so I think part of the problem is, and when we're talking about these things and serial numbers and mass deportations and immigrants in this way, it's just become this talking point and we hear it on TV, but people have to be grounded in what this means. What would it mean to deport over 11 million

undocumented immigrants in this country? In Donald Trump's own words, like, it can turn bloody. And more than anything, Dan, and I think this is important, we're at a point where even Donald Trump doesn't really know where he's drawing the line, right? It used to be that he was just targeting undocumented immigrants, and now what we heard after his comments about Haitian migrants,

Haitian immigrants are legal immigrants right now. They are protected under temporary protected status. And so where is he drawing the line? If you're a legal immigrant, would you also be deported? If you are the sort of US born child of immigrant parents, are you also going to be deported? So I think that's sort of the scary part of all of this. Tony, Billy, you hear the Miami in her accent?

That's a lot of Miami. I do. I hear the croquetica, I hear the cafecito, I hear it all. That's my number one stop when I go to the Miami. You're in La Canaria, right? Let's close out with something lighter here, even though it's not actually funny, but somehow the way that it was said is universally being laughed at by almost everybody. They're eating the dogs, the people that came in. They're eating the cats. They're eating the pets of the people that live there.

I mean, that's all I mean, but I don't even know where to begin. I'll just leave it at that. Okay, very good. LOL. That is it. The name of the book is Defectors, The Rise of the Latino Far Right

and What It Means for America. Thank you, Paula. Thank you guys, I really appreciate it. Thanks for everything you guys do. Howdy folks, it's Mike Ryan. I wanna talk to you about the great taste of Miller Lite. Gonna cut right to it today, because it's football season as you know,

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