The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - Hour 1: Minnesota (feat. Carl E. Douglas)

Episode Date: January 26, 2026

"It begins by giving power to people who shouldn't have it." After putting a bow on some topics from earlier in the show, Carl Douglas joins Dan and the Shipping Container to discuss the ongoing protests in Minneapolis after yet another American citizen was killed by officers. He and the crew dive into the violence perpetrated by ICE and Customs and Border Protection, the framing by the Trump Administration, and what to expect moving forward. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is the Dan Levitarch Show with the Stucats podcast. Put it on the poll, please, at Lebitard Show. If you were watching football for the first time yesterday, do you think that you would say those four teams were playing the same sport? That those two games were the same sport. I had that weird thought yesterday, absent context. If you didn't know what jogging and marathoning was, because the Miami Marathon sort of shut down all of Miami Sunday morning

where you couldn't get it. anywhere because you had thousands of people who have flown in from all over running down the street. If you didn't know what marathons were, you'd just think that a bunch of people were being chased by something giant. You know, it starts off with the Kenyans are in front of everybody and then the incredibly fit obsessive people. And then it's, you know, a guy dressed as Batman is running through the streets. But you would be confused by the, I couldn't walk my dog across Ocean Drive because you couldn't

get across the street at any point. with a patch of opening between the sheer number of people who were running through our city in one of the few places in the United States that you could run yesterday, given the weather. It's a beautiful marathon. My wife did it a couple of years ago. She did the half, not the full. But she told me, once you get down to MacArthur, it's basically a straight shot where you're in the water and you're on the beach and it's awesome. But, yeah, I would never do that.

At Lebitard Show as well, put this on the poll. These are the five I'm nominating on football movies. You tell me if I'm missing. You guys want to put varsity blues in the program in here. I think the five best we've got are Friday Night Lights, Remember the Titans, Jerry McGuire, North Dallas 40, and the original longest yard. You're counting Jerry McGuire? I object to that. How are you objecting to that?

It's not a football movie. But it is a, what do you mean? His Last Boy Scout a football movie? When there was somebody on the field breaking through on a touchdown, shooting people with a gun they pulled from their pants, no, that's not a football movie. Is radio a football movie? That's offensive by you. That is just Cuba Gooding Jr.

you're just trying to win an Oscar and going too far. And I believe Robert Downey Jr. warned Ben Stiller about this in Tropic Thunder. You can't do what Cuba Gooding Jr. trying to win an Oscar did. Okay, I have a couple for you that we've left out that definitely are on that list. Not that there are better movies than Jerry McGuire, I object to Jerry McGuire being a football movie. Number one, Rudy. Rudy's a great movie. Come on. What are we doing? Is it? I know we don't like Notre Dame, but Rudy's a great movie.

I don't know if Rudy's a great movie. It's a matter with you. Boring. Number two, and I'm sorry, I refuse to hear any. kind of pushback. You know about that Sunny Weaver Jr.? Go ahead and put Rudy on there as well. Just put those movies up there and have people pick from among them.

Draft Day, Dan, draft day? No, you are not doing that. He got all his picks back. Kevin Kossner and Draft Day is not a great movie. Sunny Weaver got all of his picks back. Why? Because he felt like it. You're disqualified from talking about great football movies. What a movie. Dark Night Rises. Amin is right

about you and your questionable movie judgment. Can we get up and forgive me? audio audience for doing this to you, but I suggest you look this up on the internet if you have not seen it. Can we put Craig Barubi, the Toronto Maple Leafs coach up on the screen? And he says he had a weight room accident, and I just don't know how he was lifting weights. I don't, I want you guys to help me. This scar looks like something out of the movie saw.

If I told you that this person was out of the movie saw and had been tortured in the movie, I'm going to try to explain this to the audio audience, okay? There's a lot of forehead on this man. He has the tremendous cul-de-sac that makes his hair start at the top of his skull. Okay, the very top of his skull, the middle of his skull is where his hair starts. And right before that hair starts, he has a parabola, an injury that runs basically from one eyebrow to the other, a rainbow of blood, a scar that seems impossible. I don't even know what happened to him in the wait room. Do you guys have any theories?

Did a weight fall on his head? Nothing happened in a wait room. You think he's lying about what the injury is? Zaz, you know about that WrestleMania 9? Oh, of course. You remember? Caesar's Palace. Yes, Bruce and Barber Beefcake and Hulk Hogan.

Tag teaming. Yeah. Gets money ink. Hoke Hogan shows up. His face all jacked up. Black eye, macho. You know what they told us? Macho punched him in the eye.

But you know what they told us? What? A gym accident. Oh yeah, that was a gym accident, town. Okay, so what do you guys have happening here? You guys don't believe it's a gym accident. You believe that he's lying. Correct, because of WrestleMania 9.

I thought this of Pat Riley once. I remember Pat Riley showed up for a morning press conference when he was coaching the heat, and he had a giant scar on the top of his head, and he said he got it swimming. And I'm like, that's not true. That can't be true. That something else had to have happened there. There's no way that you would get that giant scar on your face from swimming. Okay, so you guys believe Craig Barubi to be a lie.

here. Tell me what happened to him. Do you think, do you think that someone cut him with some sort of utensil that cuts in parabolas? And an upside down smile? I mean, I think that jigsaw got a hold of him. The Joker maybe? He was in one of the salt traps. At a key in his frontal lobe, he had to cut it open with us. This is what it would look like if home alone were more realistic. Listen, I'm not going to call somebody who's a liar who happens to be seventh all time and penalty minutes in league history. Yeah. You don't want to get a bad side. That's right. Thank you, Roy. You want the honest answer?

Skull crusher. You ever done those, Dan? Yes, I have. Thank you. You know, you got a real heavy, yeah, you got a real heavy skull crusher. You're like, I hope this doesn't crush my skull. And then all of a sudden, Kshk. A scar doesn't really make sense, though.

You guys think he's lying. I know he's lying. You know he's lying. I know he's lying. Oh, you said it, not me. I'm not going to call him a liar. Whatever, I just did. Who cares?

This Craig Barrube you're going to do. WrestleMania 9. The chief. He's seventh in penalty minutes of all time. What do you mean is what he's a game? going to do. So what's he going to do? What's he going to do? What's Craig Bermud? Hey, Craig Bermudy. I think you're lying. What you're going to do about? Nothing. You do nothing. Who cares? Penalty minutes. Sucker. Lose the Panthers again. Craig Barubi.

Did you just try to make the camera flinch by just... Well, maybe he's watching. By thrusting an eye. eyebrow toward the camera. That's what you just did. You did it again. Okay. Very good. Threatening. I had another incident this weekend with people who will not take my cash. I continue to get more and more upset about this. George Sedano misrepresented me last week when he shouted, he said I was shouting in a carport, this is America Jack. A, I didn't say Jack when a valet wouldn't take my cash. money. I did not say this is America either. I said that in America cash is still good. Cash, for now, cash is still good in America. And I evidently sounded just like this guy.

We have played this sound before, but I cannot get enough of this sound. I can't believe that I am now this person. I'm going to buy some strawberries and I'm offering exactly the right amount of money here on the help desk. So you people, take That money, £1.19, and I will take my strawberries outside. You can't take that. You can't take that. You can't take that. I have paid by legal tender. I'm paid by legal tender and I'm going out with my strawberries. And I'm going to let them.

I'm going to leave my strawberries. I paid by legal tender in India. this dystopian place. Yeah, here, I feel like I should be applauded when I do things like this. Again, when I talk about the normalization of things, okay, the thing that pissed me off the first time, and I think this is a reasonable thing to piss me off, you don't have parking. You do not allow me to park my own car because you don't have a place that has parking. Therefore, I must pay you whatever you decide to go take my car somewhere. and in this case it's $16, which is cheaper than it is in most places in Miami.

This is a grift of the highest order. A giant business has formed around your ability to just steal my money because you don't have parking that allows me to park my own car. How have we gotten used to this? And how have we gotten used to the combination of this? And you won't take my cash when I try to give it to you. My cash is no good. I have to give you my information.

so somebody who's an employee for two days will have my credit card information now. This is the way the transaction works. How much of this am I supposed to eat before I get upset about this? So, Dan, you drive up to the valet and you're like, all right, I'm going to valet my car here. I'm going to this spot and they told you, okay, great, but you can only use card. There's no cash. They didn't tell me that beforehand. Okay, so you drop off your car, you think everything's good.

You go to pay, you take out a nice crisp 20. You give the guy a 20, nice little $4 tip. Everybody's happening. He said, I can't take this. That's right. And he said, only card. That guy's an idiot. You've got to, no, but that's, and then he gets his manager, and I've got to give you all my information now, too.

It's not just that you have to rip me. It's not just that you rip me off with the parking, and this is now normal, and it's not just that you won't take my cash. Now you also get to use my credit card. Michael tell you what bullshit it is to have your identity stolen by somebody, and what a headache it is to get your... It's the bullshit. That's the bullshit? That's the bullshit. The bullshit's happened to you?

The bullshit has happened to me. And how annoying is that to try and clear all that up when somebody has just used your credit card information? And look, man. Oh, file taxes as me. It was just a nightmare for like several years. But now it happens so often that it's a lot easier. But I had it when you didn't want it. Wow.

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Please don't share with anyone under legal drinking age. Now let's get back to arguing about refs. Don Lebertard. We're going to win. Stugats. We're going to win. They're annoying. What an old reference.

This is the Dan Lebatar show with the Stugats. By the way, if you found me annoying, as you often do and did in the first two hours of the show, this hour is going to be even more annoying because Carl Douglas, our legal expert, is going to join us. We haven't talked to him in a while. And what we're going to talk to him about is some of the other un-American things that are happening now in Minnesota, where we have protesters running the risk of being shot by fake police because we're okay with Donald Trump's unqualified state militia, not only killing people. protesters and then sending out an assortment of disinformation that puts a family that's already

grieving into the position of feeling like someone who's already a victim is going to be vilified with an assortment of things that aren't facts as the government behaves in a way that feels like disinformation and propaganda and lies. And I will tell you as someone who has only borrowed from my parents and grandparents all the stories about what it feels like to have your freedom taken away, that the stories that my family told about how communism crept into freedom and took away right so that Cuba is the rotting island that you see today, it begins with giving power to people who shouldn't have it and who really like having. that power, unqualified people. So if normal police officers are doing a job that's so difficult that very often tragedies arise all the time injustices and brutalities, because you have police officers

who are armed who are also afraid. And therefore you get into situations where police officers do wrong things, police officers who as is are often unqualified because it's a very job to be, a very hard job to be, qualified for to put more of them in the streets and give them power and give them arms and then defend them when they do the wrong thing and then tell us that our eyes are lying to us and then get subsequent video that shows you know our eyes were not lying to us the government is lying to us in defense of fake police we're going to talk about this with carl douglas because it's super weird among all the weird things happening in america now to see this happen. in Minnesota. It's like one of the whitest places in the world. You should be safe protesting there.

You should not be a family begging your governor, please tell the story of our son. Please tell people that he was good, that he was a nurse, that he was trying to do the right things. They canceled when the first time this happened. This happened a mile away from the last time it happened. It's just, I'm telling you, it's really weird to see the city of George Floyd now five years later. This is a super white city to see Minnesota descend into something where it's not safe to protest because you cannot trust that your government is going to tell the truth about what it is that's happened in the streets. And you have to be thankful for the fact that everyone's got a camera phone now because the difference, the only difference between the. the horror stories that my grandparents and my parents tell about the falling of freedom is that we now have the video that tells us the truth so that everyone can be properly outraged by things that I'm going to say that even though we can't get consensus on just about anything and people are divided along political lines, I think we have reached a breaking point where Americans are looking at something and saying, yeah, that's not right. That's not what this country is supposed

to be in terms of freedom that you are protesting peacefully. And you do have a right to bear arms. And we just saw a video that shows that this person was shot after he was any kind of threat, even though he was armed. These people are not qualified to be doing the job that they're doing. Cubans in Florida are being deported at a rate that is record high in Florida because of the vilifying of brown people and black people. But now we're killing innocent white people. And that seems to be at least something of a breaking point for Americans where they're like, yeah, this isn't, this isn't okay.

You can't have people who aren't qualified to do this job acting in a way that is criminal. Yeah, I think the big thing that I keep coming back to and that I hope people can understand is like, it's not too late to change your mind. It's not too late to look at this and maybe have advocated for it before and think immigration policy is one thing and say no, like this has gone too far. And we can disagree about a whole bunch of different stuff. It could be immigration policy. It could be queer inclusion. It could be taxes. It could be anything.

we can have those debates another day. Like that doesn't mean that you have to dig your heels in on this one, no matter how annoying you might find me or Dan or anyone on this side of the aisle. I don't think that even if you find someone annoying, you should think that it's okay for them to be gunned down in the street by a secret police. Not me, not an immigrant, not you, not anybody. And to me, this is like evolved really far beyond immigration enforcement. like this is just about fear, intimidation, and you can see what's happening.

Like right in front of your eyes, there's video. It's all being laid out in front of you. It's why this regime and any fascist regime would really love AI because it can blur the lines between what reality is and isn't. But you don't have to stay steadfast on your side in this one. Like it's okay to change your mind. Nobody's going to judge you. Whether you hear the word.

of Renee Good and Alex Pready at the end of their lives. And it's, hey, you know, are you okay, is what Alex Pretti's last words were. And Renee Good's last words are, I'm not mad at you, man. I'm not mad at you, dude. And yet you have officers who their next words are effing B and boo-hoo to a group of protesters nearby. Like, this is a space where the people in charge are no longer. longer in favor of the people. You literally have the Secretary of Defense tweeting ICE greater than sign Minnesota. That is not the space that any of us want to be in. And it's okay for you to wonder,

like, what would I do if these people came to my town and which side would I want to be on? So you don't have to accept it. Like, you can decide enough is enough and change your mind on this. And keep in mind how this all started. They blamed Somalis. But in actuality, the state of Minnesota voted against Donald Trump in the three elections that he was in. So really, this is just President Trump being vindictive and going out to the state. Carl Douglas has represented everyone from Tupac to O.J. Simpson. He's on today because he's shaken, as are we, by what he's seeing happen in this country. For those of you who do not know, he mentioned the name Alex Prattie, a federal immigration officer killed.

Alex Freddie, a 37-year-old intensive care unit nurse. He was protesting a mile away from where Renee Good was shot. Carl, thank you for joining us. What do you make of what it is that you have seen happen over the last month? And it's nice to see you again, even under the circumstances. Dan, it's always a pleasure being with you and your team. What I've seen over the last month is consistent with what I've seen. over the last 45 years of representing families like Renee Good and Alex Pretty, who have been

victimized by law enforcement. Let me start by saying, Dan, being a cop is tough, but not everyone is good at it. I've had cases of people being shot behind the steering wheels. I've had cases of people being injured during protests. I've had trials last year and the year before in Los Angeles from protesters who've been injured. I know that every state in America has an organization called Post, Peace Officers Standards and Training, and there's a training program for Post in every state. That training program is six months long. By comparison, there's a training program. The The training program of ICE is 42 days. It is not possible for even the best trained post officers

to deal with the stress and the tension that comes when American protesters are against you. Cops are human too. They lose their tempers. They don't like ice. They don't like having their evenings disrupted because there are people with whistles outside of their hotel in a foreign city.

So tensions are tough. And when there is the kind of rhetoric that we see from Washington, blindly supporting whatever they do, however outrageous it is, it emboldens them. It's in that context where there's already tension, where every moment of their professional lives, there being the subject of this backlash that emboldens them to be more aggressive.

Alex Pretty, as you and your listeners, I'm sure knows, was unarmed when he was shot. An officer had removed whatever weapons he lawfully carried when he was shot. Renee Good was trying to get away when she was shot, and there were two shots fired in the side of the window of the window of. her open driver's side door as she was past the officer and he was no longer in threat. Officers are not trained to simply fire until they're out of bullets. They're trained to fire only when they are confronted with an imminent threat. And in the case of Alex Prattie, 10 shots after he was unarmed is clearly excessive.

But when you have ICE officials coming out within minutes of the shooting, calling the victims domestic terrorists that emboldens the cops. When you have protesters that are continuing to be vocal, that emboldens the top the cops and it raises the tension. So Dan, regrettably, I hope you have me on your show again.

This is going to happen again. It may not be in Minneapolis. It may be in Boston. It may be in Chicago. It may be in Detroit, but when you have marauders who are not uniformed driving common-looking SUVs riding six deep, it will continue to foster a circumstance when other lesser-trained officers are going to be afraid, frightened, and emboldened, and there will be more citizens killed. The vice president said that the officer that shot Renee Good was, quote unquote, protected by absolute immunity. Is that true? There's no absolute immunity if you lose force unreasonably.

And it is so terrible, Roy, that they're not even investigating the conduct of the officer in the Renee Good setting. There is a universal thought among law enforcement that shooting at moving vehicles are discouraged, especially or unless there is some deadly threat separate from the vehicle itself. Because shooting a gun is reckless. It's not like you see on television. You're shooting all over the place. And innocent people can be injured by the stray bullets and often are. So there are universal trainings over the course of your six months, not just 42 days. That you never shoot at a moving vehicle.

You get your butt out of the way. And clearly, with Renee Good, two of the shots went through the open driver's side window. I'm sure she was shot in the head. And it's terrible that after the shootings, they simply allow the bodies to lay there and bleed out. they prevented doctors who were present in each instance, healthcare providers, to come to the scene to try to give aid to the fallen victims. That shows how there's now a warrior mentality, us versus them. They are the bad guys.

We are the good guys. And that warrior mentality is at the basis of most uses of unreasonable force that coupled with fear. because cops are people too and cops are afraid and when they are emboldened what they'll do first is draw on their weapons or use their force you saw how pretty was pepper sprayed right in the face because he came to the aid of another innocent protester or woman who had been pushed down you saw how six cops pounded on him immediately not knowing what he had done simply because he had done simply because he was he washington a woman who had been pushed down you saw how six cops pounded on him immediately you saw how six cops pounded on him immediately not knowing what he had done simply because he was in the way. That is the attitude and the culture that all Americans should stand up against. And Dan, most of my clients look like me. Some of my clients look like you, but few of my clients look like Renee Good and Alice pretty.

So hopefully this is a wake-up. call for your listeners, but for the grace of God. Any of you can be victimized by these lawless enforcement agents. Beyond that, when people say, I don't live in Minneapolis or city facing ice raids or mass protests, why should I care? Why should they care beyond what you just said? Because we are a nation of humanity. We're different. We're special. And that's just not a saying. That's just not rhetoric. There has to be some substance to those ideals that we Americans hold dear.

That's why it's so very important, even if you don't live in Minneapolis, that you have to make your voices heard and protest. For those who survive these encounters with ICE, what are their legal, recourse that they can use. It is very difficult when you sue an agency of the federal government. You have to sue them, Roy, in federal court. When you sue a federal governmental agency in federal court, there's not a right to a jury. So everyone who is victimized who sues in federal court has a judge trial. When there's a judge trial rather than a jury trial, sometimes the public interest is not always reflected in the verdict.

Sometimes the public outrage is not always reflected in the rulings. That's why we trial lawyers prefer having our cases heard by normal citizens. We're one of the few countries on earth, Roy, that has citizen juries deciding acts of wrongful death against our authorities. England has defamation. Some countries have a couple of causes, causes of action. But only in America can the people reflect the outrage of the moment by their voices in a jury. That's why it's so very important. How do you feel about the White House or Homeland Security trying to portray victims as dangerous terrorists, the justifying of these killing?

Because I was mentioning it's one thing to just have the horror of the grief of, what do you mean? I've lost my son. But then to watch what happens immediately next as your son or daughter is vilified and turned into someone dangerous or terrorist by political propaganda, make something that's already the worst, even worse. Dan, it is their playbook that they are using almost automatically. Within minutes, if not hours of a tragedy, and there will be others. They are labeled domestic terrorists, which is such an outrageous insult. But it reflects the partisanship, regrettably.

that has so engulfed our country, the fact that the political leanings of a particular state or a city is the basis for focus, is outrageous, is an American. The last time I looked, the president is the president of all of us. And until President 45, they always embrace that notion, even if you didn't vote for me, I'm your president. I want to work for you until that attitude, that foundational notion changes in two and a half years. I fear more of this blaming the victim is going to be part of the official discourse.

everyone's obviously shocked and appalled by the shooting happening. I think Minneapolis police said they have had like 900 consecutive instances in which they've had to disarm someone and they've always done so without shooting any shots. But for me, almost equally troubling is the lead up to this man being shot. He is on the side of the street with his cell phone protesting. what seems to be obviously understandable and peacefully. And ice agents stop their car. They get out. They lay their hands on another protester.

He stands in between, still recording them. He gets taken down by approximately seven officers. He is disarmed and then shot to death. What I imagine more people, even though it seems even more dangerous now, are going to be compelled to go out and protest. He seemed to have been doing things by the book in terms of peacefully protesting, and he ended up dead. If people in our audience are moved to go out and protest, and they find themselves in a situation that is quickly accelerating and getting out of hand, what advice would you give them? Mike, I'm the father of a 31-year-old black son.

Every father of young black men have had the conversations with him. their children. Your number one job is to get home at the end of the day. Your job is not to enforce or to emphasize particularly to a nervous officer how you are in the right, especially in these times. I tell my kids, make sure you leave your hands so they can see them when they stop you in your car. I tell my son, make sure you tell him what you're going to do before you do it. I'm reaching into my glove box to get my registration like you've asked. Is that okay with you? It's regrettable, tragic, un-American that everyone should sit down and have conversations with their children, with their family, with their friends.

if they are considering the risky nature now of exercising your First Amendment rights to protest because the administration watches and listens and reacts to the polls. The polls are terrible against the Renee Good shooting and only are going to increase more, but only until the rhetoric is reduced. will there be any true salvation?

And regrettably, you're going to have me on again to talk about another travesty until people in charge begin to listen. We have only a couple of minutes left, but you mentioned that very few of your clients look like Renee Good or Alex Pretti. Do you see anything shifting with the idea that these people look different than what is normally at the bottom end of these kinds of injustices. Do you see a shift anywhere in America happening? Dan, as I've always told you, it is a roller coaster, a public opinion. George Floyd, things were in favor of police reform. Two years later, those sentiments waned, and we came to this.

It always goes up or down. There's going to be some police officer who was injured and public opinion is going to change again. The more things change, the more they remain the same. But only through exercising your rights is there any hope of a respite. But it goes up and down over the years, probably for eternity. Carl, I'm wondering your thoughts on Second Amendment advocates in this situation, because Alex Pretti was called a domestic terrorist for having a gun and they said, you know, you don't bring a gun to a peaceful protest. But he was registered to carry in Minnesota where you can do so. And yet this seems to be the general perception where it seems like only the right people can be carrying a gun. What are your thoughts

on the Second Amendment folks sort of backing away from this situation? Well, Jeremy, interestingly, I saw this morning that the NRA came against those that are attacking. lacking Alex Prady simply because he was exercising his rights to own a gun. So there's going to be some twisted and analysis going on here because the right doesn't quite understand or sure where they're going to stand. You can't talk about the Supreme Court broadening rights of states to legalize the possession of guns, yet at the same time, castigate someone who was exercising their rights. I don't have a gun. I'm scared of guns. But certainly, you can't have it both ways, and people on the right are trying to.

Carl, thank you, sir. I would say that it's nice seeing you. It usually is, but this is always the subject matter, and it's eternally depressing. So thank you for making the time for us early on the West Coast, sir. Dan, always the pleasure. Please have me back. Thank you, sir.