The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - Hour 1: NBA Opening Night!

Episode Date: October 24, 2023

Amin Elhassan, Charlotte Wilder and Jorge Sedano join Dan and Mike Ryan to get you ready for NBA Opening Night. Did LeBron James show a lack of respect for his teammates and the game by eating take-out on the bench? The wait is finally over as Mike Schur joins the show to preview the Celtics' season. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You're listening to Giraffe King's Network. I am glad that the audience heard all of that because last week I was hugely disappointed that Amino Hassons and Tonyo Benderas was just so much better off air than it was on air. But I'm happy to be with the crew of Oddball here, Charlotte and Amine because basketball is upon us. And before I get to the stuff that happens during the regular season, I just want to do one little bit of housekeeping with you guys from the preseason that I during the regular season. I just want to do one little bit of housekeeping with you guys from the preseason

that I have not yet done. Charlotte, are you aware of the work or the name Howard Eskin? Are you familiar with this person? No, should I be? No, not really. No, he is. It's just embarrassed myself.

No, you did not. You did not. He is a Philadelphia radio gas bag from another time. Okay. I took a real risk there. I was debating just being like, yeah, obviously. Vice commissioner Howard. Yeah.

I'm like, for sure, the owner of the, no, any, okay. Howard Eskin is a person who sort of personifies, I would say, whatever you think Philadelphia sports radio was in the 80s and 90s. And he is birthed a child spike, ESKIN from the tree of sports radio. And he is mad because during the preseason, LeBron James on the bench in a yellow warm-up suit was eating something that looked delicious, like a chopped salad or something or a bowl of some sort. I'm guessing it was something warm because it was in one of those black takeout containers with the clear plastic lid.

And that to me for something like a salad to me, I'm like, that comes in one of those paper cardboard eco friendly situations. I think this might have had something more maybe rice involved. That was my takeaway. The base was definitely the base was rice or quinoa made with hydro carbohydrates. There was some protein in there as I told Charlotte that wasn't a snack. This wasn't him like having some popcorn. Even the way he starts eating when you when they kind of solo in on him chewing, that's the true of someone who's eating a meal. It was Cole being thrown into a furnace and Howard Esken writes total lack of respect

for the game and his teammates by LaFraud James also looks like he knows it's wrong asking teammate to hide him surprised he didn't ask for waiter service and then he does do him the courtesy of tagging at King James. What are your thoughts there just because I did think it was funny to see him having what appeared to be a full mall court meal in on the bench. I have, I have the opposite reaction. This gentleman, LeFron James, no, LeFron James, has been it. This is his 21st season. Let the man eat something on the bench during a preseason game. I also don't think we have we have reviewed the tape. We've watched this film. He wasn't asking Anthony Davis to cover him. Anthony Davis was wiping his head with a towel and LeBron. I think probably realize someone's seeing this and And went a little bit behind it. It was convenient. I don't think he was trying to hide it. No, I think he just happened to duck behind

Anthony Davis as he's going in to shovel more food in his mouth. No, the funny, I find interesting Howard Eskin. First of all, going with LaFraud, like, call him LaBron, like, no, I got to come with something more biting, more sarcastic. Ooh, witty. Oh, I know what I'll call him. LaFraud, because Fraud and Braun have the aw sound in there. And it's kind of like, even though it doesn't rhyme, but it's close close enough and then he said, you know what? But I am still a journalist. I owe him to know I'm talking about King James. So you know, I speak truth, the power. That's that's the way he's coming from right there. He really thinks he did something with LaFraud and he really knows He did something by tagging him in it. The oldest player in the NBA is where I was headed with all of this.

Someone who knows that he has to eat early in order to keep his digestive track right, like the old people do before they go to bed so that they can get their sleep right. I can't believe that LeBron James is the oldest player in the NBA. I can't believe a number of things about him, his entire career that he's still this successful at this age defies science and physics and all I know about human athleticism, the idea that his team can now, I don't know who you put after Milwaukee as one of the favorites, but I believe the Lakers have gotten well enough and young enough around him that LeBron James is still in the conversation somewhere, which

is fairly stunning, given his age. And I think they're odds are in the top 10 to win the finals. Some of that is LeBron Lakers, right? Like Vegas knows, there's a lot of people who are within driving distance who are willing to come and lay down lots of money to bid on their favorite team. But it is it's staggering. I thought my this was Charlotte. He's not just me. He's not holding on. This isn't Robert Parrish or Kevin Willis playing in their 20s. He's there's their number two. He's their second best player. Maybe they're number 20s. He's their, their number two, he's their second best player. Or maybe they're number one player.

He's their best player. He's, he's their best player. He's on a 10 best players in the league at this age, at, at, with this much mileage on him, right? Deep playoff runs, Olympics, national team play, the 21 years and he doesn't miss a lot of time. I think I've, we've asked the question, when does the fall off happen? And now I'm being anything, it'll never happen.

He'll just be hurt more. That's the only falloff we're going to get. He'll never happen. He's going to be 80 with a dialysis machine out there, averaging 20 and 10 because here's the thing, Dan, we talked about this 10 years ago, right? When he was still in Miami, when LeBron gets old, they'll just move him to power forward. And then he'll just dominate when he can't jump anymore. He'll just be flatfooted, but playing out the high post and passing the guys cutting and scoring long guys who can't keep up with them.

And it's like, yeah, I mean, he hasn't even gotten old to the point where to say he's got to play power forward. Now he's still good enough to play wing. So I've resigned myself to thinking the only thing that's going to change is the only thing that has changed since he's gotten L.A. which is he gets hurt a lot now. And when he gets hurt, it takes him a long time to recover. That's the only thing I can see. The favorite is obviously Milwaukee. And I saw that, you know, is it over the bedding favorite is Milwaukee? Yes. According to draft Kings. Last time I looked Milwaukee was the favorite, at least in part because of what I'm about to say. I think the best teammate Janis has ever had is either Middleton or holiday correct ever had. And now he's got

a teammate better than that. And in the first game that they played together, Janis said he couldn't believe that they started double teaming in a preseason game right off of the first play. They started double teaming Damien Lillard and I don't know. I mean, maybe you can untangle this one for me. I don't know how much better Middleton was made. I would not think of Middleton as a championship player if he hadn't played with Janis. I don't know how much easier the game has been paid made for Middleton because Yannis is a vaguely unprecedented player in the way that he does things.

But having Damian Lillard as his best teammate makes them how much better. What explained to me how the game is going to change for Yannis because he now has this player better than any teammate eighties ever had. So when you look at Yannis specifically in the bucks, their biggest efficiency was closing, right? Someone at the end of the game to either take and make the big shot or make the big play for someone else. Middleton by the fact though, fulfilled that role and he did to the best of his ability. And I think Chris Milton's a good player is an all star. He's good enough to be an all star because he plays on a great team. If you're on a bad team, I don't think he would be, he wouldn't be like Bradley Bill, for

instance, where Bradley Bill can play on a bad team and still be looked at as an all star caliber player. I don't think Middleton is that good, but he's good enough to clearly be an all star while playing for a good team. Lillard is light years ahead of that in terms of his ability, particularly in the clutch. That is his strength. That is his calling card. He is the modern day Reggie Miller for people in the 90s. Reggie Miller was the most clutch for people in the 80s was Larry Bird for people of this era. It is Damien Lillard. And so you gave them the thing that they've been missing all along.

And in turn, Damien Lillard, not the greatest defensive player in the world, right? But now he's surrounded with not one, but two perennial defensive player of the year candidates in the honest and Lopez. And we know also from history that for the most part, when you take a poor defensive player and you put them in a great defensive environment They get better look at what happened to Paul Pearson Ray Allen when Kevin Garnett came over to Boston Obviously Ray Allen came with them But they've defended better than they'd ever defended before look at Alan Houston going from Detroit to New York

Like these are guys that weren't thought of as defensive players They've thought about as liabilities But but then you put them in that system. Steph Curry's another one to the point where Steph Curry's no longer a bad defensive player in his own merit. This is a guy who is a good defensive player, particularly in a good defensive scheme. Damian Lillard, I think, possesses all of those same attributes. Someone who can be better defensively if I'm surrounded by the right people. So that's really what they're working with is the symbiosis of I do something that

you need and you do something that I need. I also think that there's a hunger there. And I think that's what I haven't heard talked about as much from Dame. He needs to win this win a championship. He needs that for his legacy. I don't know how much he thinks about that. I don't know how much guys think about that. I would think about it a lot if I were him. And I think that he comes in with a fire that Janice all summer was saying, if you're not serious here to the Milwaukee to the Bucks ownership, if you are not serious people, I am not going to stick around. And so they listened. And I've said this I said this on Abba. I think it's astonishing that an organization is well run enough to listen to its star player and get him what he needs. But I don't think we are counting James hunger and desire for this enough when we talk about

how dangerous the bucks are going to be from a basketball perspective. Ben Simmons, what are you expecting from him? Is that a case that is closed? I believe this is just echoing laughter that no one is expecting anything from Ben Simmons. So I was one of the last people off the Ben Simmons train at the end of time, right? I was the one that even as he was going through stuff in Philadelphia, I said, look, guys, if he plays and never gets any better, he's going to the hall of fame because he defends all five positions at an elite level. He's an excellent passer. He led the league in assists and led the league in assists that left the three pointers. He's a great rebounder. He's and he when he puts his head down, he gets in the front of him. He finishes. It's

just this thing has been a sticking point. I'm like, look, he doesn't need any of that. He just needs to play confidently. And then, you know, that's the thing. No, that's the thing. We have never seen, but this kind of mental short circuiting in this sport, not Mark L. Fultz, not anybody. We've never seen somebody be what you just described, which is clear Hall of Famer in terms of physical talent. Oh, the brain power is something that is making him a short circuit. is clear Hall of Famer in terms of physical talent. Oh, the brain power is something that is making him short circuit. He hear me out. What if he had to get to this point where the bar isn't even low? It's

on the ground. All you have to do is step over it. Maybe he needed to get here. And now he's going to because there's a zero expectation. That's what it is. He is going to be great. I think that's what it is. Is he's reached the place where because Kyrie's gone and Katie's gone, it's all done. It's over. No one's looking at the nets as you guys better do this. They get to play with that freedom of no one's paying attention. You're expecting something from him. I have high hopes for the nets. I mean, I think they're going to be fun to watch and I think they're going to win games and I think he's going to play well because it's free-flowing and every and there's no expectations.

You think he's going to rehab himself that Ben Simmons is no longer going to be laughter that he's going to surprise us and his confidence is going to be restored. I'll take, I'll, I'll die on that hill. I, I, you need to do it more confidently than you just did that. I thought, sure. You, you, you, you, you, you, you just died on that hill. A limp, limp death where you fought nothing by your own base

You stabbed yourself with your own bayonet lacking confidence The staffed yourself in the face no she fell down and then bayonet is in her esophagus Never forget the sacrifice of Charlotte Wilder on this I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Alright, put it on the poll at Levitage Show. Should a challenge be called an oopsie to play Kate the referee's ego? An oopsie flag.

Stugats! Were the red flag, the challenge flag should not be called a challenge flag, or the flag should say on it, love your butt. Red is also an aggressive color. Very, very aggressive. Maybe pink. We should actually... We should have them throw daisies and call them whoopsie daisies.

Oh yeah! Whoopsie daisies and call them whoopsie daisies. Oh yeah. Whoopsie daisies. Whoopsie daisies. This is the Dan Lebatar show with this two cats. We're going to remain NBA intensive here throughout this hour. Mike sure will be here shortly to talk Celtics basketball. We got the crew from Oddball in here to talk heat and other things basketball related. But also Jorge Sedano is here and he is going to walk us through some NBA stuff. I don't know how you feel, George, about everything that happened with the Miami heat and

Damian Lillard because a lot of people, I think, are enjoying the fact that they think that Miami got worse. A mean is the rare one with the opinion that the Celtics did not get any better, that the Celtics he thinks, I don't think I'm misrepresenting him, even though he's sitting right next to me, has a microphone and can speak for himself. He thinks the Celtics because of their injuries and because he is called Drew Holiday a corpse, he doesn't think the Celtics have gotten better. Your general thoughts on the Miami Heat being an ASE barely getting into the playoffs last

year was what happened in the playoffs, a real indication of who they are or was the regular season, the better indication of who they are was the regular season, the better indication of who they actually are. And now a year older, if you look at the last four seasons, the playoffs are more indicative of who they've been over four seasons. Okay. With that particular group, then what that regular season was, they were the second most injured team in the sport.

They also had, I mean, it just felt like a times, and I hate to say this about a heat team because no one really associates that with them, but it felt like they were mailing it in a little bit. Like guys were sitting out, like, you know, there's a lot more rest, even though they were injured or whatever. I know that's a taboo topic, but it didn't feel like a typical Miami heat team in that regard. Like, hey, we're going to go hardcore every game, 110% dive on the floor. It just didn't feel that way when I was watching them. It felt like for a heat team, strangely, they were going through the motions.

But I do think that they ascended to the mean, particularly with their three point shooter. And because if you look at Gabe and, and Struse, you know, they were terrible during the regular season. And then they shot more like they shot the previous season in the playoffs. So they were the number one three point shooting team, the season before last, okay? And they were 26th last season. So I, and then you saw in the playoffs, they shot like the number one team. I mean, are you able to discern these things because I generally speaking, I don't have

the eyes that you guys have for some of this stuff. I think that when the shots aren't falling, it's easy to say they are mailing it in. I can't tell you that when the shots are falling, they are trying harder. I always think the heat are trying as hard as they can and sometimes those shots aren't falling and then you can make it a criticism. I don't think you're mixing those two things up. Those are two different. Correct. They didn't shoot as well as they usually do also sometimes. George is saying,

they didn't look like they were as engaged as they normally are. Two separate things. Yeah. The shooting part for sure, because even when you look at the metrics of wide open shots, they weren't making wide open shots. Guys that were traditionally good three pointers could not shoot. And that changes everything. It changes how the defense guards you. It changes, you know, how they're coming on offense, offer rebound versus off of the make. It changes a lot of dynamics. And it would explain why a team could go for the number one seed one year to the eight seed the next year, not because someone had an incredible season in their conference. Having said all that, I think George is right in the sense that these last four years,

this team has made the finals twice and the conference finals game seven, a third, like in the third year, right? And one year they lost in the first round. We've been the best team in the conference the last four years. Miami. It's, I mean, it's unequivocal, right? There, by the way, if you look at the last five seasons of the NBA, finals, okay, going back to the Toronto series of Golden State, there has not been a repeat representative.

The only two that have actually been in there a couple times, if memory serves me correctly, more than once are golden state in Miami. Yep. So, but that doesn't mean, you know, you can look at the regular CZ, whatever, it doesn't matter. They'll be fine when the playoffs get here because as we saw last year, they were 12 minutes away from not being in the playoffs. Reminence away. Yeah. My hot take is they're going to get to the plan tournament and lose like this time. You think, are you one of those, you're one of those people you think like they're not going to make the playoffs. They're done. They think

they're better and deeper. I think they think they're better and deeper. Let me tell you something behind the hawk is, okay. I think that kid is legitimately good. Like he, I know we, we, we normally don't think four year college players are going to be good players in the NBA. This kid is smart. He defends, he is a coach's dream that kid is going to play. No doubt. That's, that's, and that says a lot in Miami for a rookie to come in and say he's going to play. I'm wondering how much of my position has to do with being around heat fans. So I'm like, it has that influence because I also I wonder I'm like, I mean, are you saying, are you saying the Celtics aren't going to be better because I'm a Celtics fan? Does that play any part of it? Yeah, you know, I think

we're both being a little bit I know, Snicks Ryan Cortesto calls me a coward because I'm a Celtic fan. Does that play any part of it? Yeah, I think we're both being a little bit, I'm nochnics. Ryan Cortes still calls me a coward because I said in 2017, I'd rather be the sixers for God's sake based on the way the heat we're building with Dion Waiters and a sun white side. So he fans don't love me.

Let's just start with that. But now I don't think Drew Holliday is a corpse. Like a mean says, I have real questions though about the Celtics. I am terrified if I'm a Celtics fan of Christophe's Porzingus. I'm terrified of, we've taken our entire identity away on defense. And I'm also afraid of, hey, we are leading offense because the coach likes offense. And I know that because I've sat with the coach. and I remember having a game where they blew out Phoenix. I did their game and in

that pregame meeting, we talked about like getting shots up and he's like, no, we need to get more shots up and even more shots up. He's that, that's what he wants to do and that they've leaned into that. That should be interesting when Bangunni comes in. But I will be interested. I'm scared of all of those things too, George. I'm also worried about what movie Joe Mizzula is going to watch every night this time. Like I said, I was like after the finals. I mean, after that, that's a saddest for waiting. Oh, they've had yourself there. Oh, my God. After the Eastern Conference finals, I was

like, this man needs to go home and watch Manchester by the sea every night until the season start. Get the sadness out now. And then we come in and it's only Ted. But he's a, listen, I know people think he stinks. I think he's a good coach. I do. I don't think he's like, I feel like the takes were too harsh on him. He was clearly in over skis against bolstera early in that series, but they had the better team on paper than Miami did last year. Don't tell that to Wilmanso.

He got upset when I said, I said the Celtic is really more talented. They are. And I love Will, you know, but the reality is the Celtic's, there are a lot of teams that are more talented on paper than Miami. Miami's secret sauce is not such a secret anymore. It's Eric is bolster. It's execution. It's their attention to detail and their ability to execute is why they are consistently

why when Dan says who's been the best team in the East over the last four years. The answer is Miami, not because of talent, although they do have some talent, but because they execute, they pay attention to detail, they do the thing that they set out to do more often than anyone else. I'll ask you guys this and I feel like a mean will have a good answer on this because he's worked in a front office. Miami, what they do best is they know their guys. Like they know how to find their guys, those, all those diamonds in the rough, everyone

talks about the development, they're the best at it because they know exactly what they need to fit around the pieces that they have. And I feel like it's elementary to think that every general manager and every front office thinks that. But I feel like sometimes they get away from that and dive into just talent accumulation. I think that's 100% correct. I think the thing that I have said in my career of talking about sports more than anything else I've ever said is that environment determines so much more about behavior than individual characteristic or talent. You can have all the talented guys in the world. If you don't know what your mission, vision, values are, you're going to, you're not going to succeed because that's the cohesion. That's what makes everybody rise up and, and as much as it pains me to say it because

he culture has become, you know, oh, he culture. It's so real. It's so real. Like all the GMs on the GM survey, I think it was like 99% when I said, Eric Spulcher when I just, which coach has that dog in him? Oh, that was not the question. That was not the great question. No GM's.

I want that question on the survey next year. I prefer that. Which coach has the dog in it? From from from. George, we're in a group chat with George. Oh, yeah. And it's I'm a big fan of dogs in him. Anytime, yeah, anytime the heat of doing something or whatever, he'll send this

difference. It's a dog with sunglasses on. I'm so done with this. It tells the sunglasses, I'm done with, I'm him and I'm done with a dog in it. I can, I can have those eradicated from the lexicon. Be done with the dog in him. Ever. There is always a dog. I'm with Charlotte.

I miss Marcus smart every day of my life. He's going to be good for Memphis because he's got that dog in him. Dan, don't be anti-dog in him, okay? Dog in him is a real thing and it's immeasurable. I know you hate intention. It may be a real thing. What's not a real thing is no GM was asked, does Eric's Maltstra have that dog in him?

And there was not a consensus from the GMs on Eric's Maltstra has the most drop-wiler in him. I think we should let Dan in our group chat. Oh no. I don't believe in two seconds. I do not want to be in a group chat where there's a dog wearing sunglasses with and tilts of tilts. Don't

forget the till. Great. I mean, yes, it is that. Let's bounce around the league real quick. Zion Williamson. David Griffin says it's the first time he's taken conditioning seriously in an off season. He comes out in the preseason has four steals in a first quarter.

Zion is going to end up being a Nick at some point or is he going to make New Orleans be a team that matters? Uh, I, well, I mean, is he going to be a Nick at some point? That's a great question. I'm going to say, let's see after probably Thanksgiving dinner. And then I know. Oh, dinner. No, but here's the thing like the real well look, I said I'm going to stop when the season starts and I still have a few more hours of Zion fat jokes to get in before I got to go there. But

it's my life every day. Well, not. It's the last day except not Monday, exactly. My life since I've been 14 had a double chin and was wearing pooke a shell. But but the thing about Zion, Dan, you know, because this summer, people will talk about are they going to trade them? Remember, yeah, that was a conversation. And the reason why the answer is no is because when he's on the floor, he is legit Hall of Fame caliber.

He no one has averaged that many points on that efficiency in the history of the game. I mean, he's shack, but in a smaller frame with more athleticism, even then shack, well, not at the beginning. Shack and Orlando was an incredible athlete and with the Lakers even too, but they were the third, the three seed Dan when he was healthy. They were good. They were good. And when they're healthy over the last two or three years, they're good. It's just they haven't been healthy a lot. How about clay Thompson for four years at $30 million a year? Do you guys want clay Thompson as a warrior? Four years 30 to 35 million dollars a year?

I sort of I sort of do because I can't imagine anything else. And I think that when he's healthy, he's still, I don't know, the eight, it's healthy. I know. I don't know. I don't have a. It was healthy last year. Yeah. Yeah, but he wasn't the same either. Offensively he was. Defensively is where the slippage is. He was gone. But he was one of the best two-way players. Correct. And I don't think that's ever going to come back. But $30 million when the star player is making 50 or 60, you know, or more, like that's actually not a terrible deal, I think. Um, and you win with your fan base by keeping that core together and letting them ride it out into the sunset. And I'm also, I mean, last

week you accused me of being in the tank for Mario. Christelball, I'm in the tank for Clay Thompson, a because my daughter, Arya, that's her favorite player. And b, I work with Michael Thompson is dad. Very regular incredible Twitter account back in the day. So biased. That was it. This is journalism. Unbelievable.

Yeah. Don Lebertard, risk reward of going into the woods by yourself. You die or you see some trees. I'm not going to die to go see some trees. Still got. Listen to me. You've seen one tree, you've seen them all, okay? There's no special tree down here. That is happening.

I feel like it's true. I'm not going to be on that tree. That is not the way it's going. No way, let me break it. This is nonsense. This is the Don Lebertar Show with this Stooots. I need the help of the group here. A mean, Charlotte and the newly arrived Mike Shore because I want more joy in my life.

I want more human interactions. And when I saw Mike Shore genuinely happy to see him, Mike Ryan steps between us because he's gone full Hollywood taking meetings with I got John Wicks guy at the Shartosh at home or mom tomorrow and I got this person over there. And he comes up to me and he says, are we making hello or are we making content trying to get me to work immediately because he wants right now as part of the cohesion and tapestry of this hour are NBA preview to continue right now in this hour with Mike sure and to do Celtics basketball now because basketball tips off and he wants us to have serious sports content.

Yeah. And I thought it was particularly odd that he had those knee high boots and the pants tucked in and a little beret with the little bullhorn when he yelled at you and a riding crop. He had a riding crop at this side. And he was smoking and he kept yelling cut. Can you explain to me, Mike, sure if you've ever seen this happen this quickly to somebody upon stepping foot in Hollywood,

the power going immediately to their head. You've seen plenty of superficiality in this city. The city will ruin people in telling you, you know, you land here and your bright eye and bushy tail just off the plane from Miami and you take one look around and the glitz and the glamour of Tinseltown. It's just, it's like a virus man. And I worry for Mike, I don't think there's any coming back

from this. Oh, that glitters isn't gold then, just remember that. Thank you. I mean, are we going to do Celtics preview here because Charlotte just looked at Mike and said, wait, what did that mean? All the glitters is not what, how, in what way was that, was that contributing to the bit Hollywood? Are you in, you're in characters? What, what are you in character as right now? You're just not a character. I think you're right. He doesn't even know. He doesn't know. I like he's a look at his eyes when he doesn't know and he doesn't know.

So all of us, let me just see if I understand what happened there. Hold on. You thought that the audience watching this right now would say, I mean, his deep and character right now, 1930s, 40s Hollywood agent, and what he's going to say is a phrase that's so old that you're going to think it's a cliche But he's thinking he invented it because he's from the 20s or 30s And this is the first time anyone heard all the glitters is not all the character back work for him dad Yeah, because typically I do that character. I did that character off camera

I never I don't think I've ever brought that on camera. Have I on main show on main show? I've never done I'm not going to do it. I don't know. Challenge. I've never done a big deal. On our ball, I do it all the time. Challenge. Challenge, you gotta be a star, challenge. Challenge, this town was made for you. He, y'all listen to me. I take you to Korea places, you ain't never even seen. Challenge, you gotta trust me though, challenge.

You gotta trust me. Like, I do that. He knew it would have been good. You know, all of that would have been super helpful. If I ain't no more than that. Danny Boy, let me tell you, this town, all that glitters isn't gold. That's in the meanism. You could take that one to isn't gold. That's, that's an amineism.

You could take that one to the bank. No, but it's not helpful if I don't have the previous Charlotte. You were happy because Mike sure is here and you can finally celebrate a Celtic basketball in a safe environment without, without the defensive Mike Ryan, who when he's not going Hollywood is going to attack your face, telling you how much better the eight-seated heat were last year, even though he didn't believe in them at all except for six minutes. Well, yeah, I'm either anytime I'm on the show talking about the Celtics. I'm either being told I'm not sad enough or my expectations are too high, which feels

like a bar that is just there is no bar. The bar is like ether. The bar is just like floating around. And now for the first time, I have another Celtics fan sitting next to me in the route, like we outnumber, well, we don't, not really. No, it's not, not really. It's a fair fight though.

Thank you. Yeah. And as I understand it, a means read on the Drew Holiday trade is that it's a bet that the Soviets got worse. Is that your position? My position is I don't understand this unbridled joy and enthusiasm behind this deal. I think they lost depth.

I think that putting their trust in one guy who has shown he's either hurt or about himself for most of his career. I'm talking about forcing this, right? And when you talk about Drew Holiday, this is someone who is not as good as he used to be, but he's pretty much bartering off of this past reputation defensively. I mean, we saw it the last time we saw Drew Holiday

on a basketball court play in defense. The guy he was guarding was screaming at him, you can't guard me. Like, that's a pretty damning indictment. And then offensively, he's been on a downslide for years, but people kind of gloss it over, I think for two reasons. One is he's genuinely a great human being that you want to root for, right? And two is Celtic fans are searching for something to fill the Marcus Smart

sized hole in their own. And Drew is like gives you glimpses, reminiscent of, oh yeah, I remember the, I remember how that used to feel like maybe he can be like my ex, but he's not your ex. He's not. But let me ask you this though, objectively, forget about the love you have for a specific player as a fan of a team. If you were just an NBA GM and all of the players were in a giant pool and you were drafting and it came to you and you needed a guard and and Drew Holiday and Marcus Smart were both available. Who were you taking? At this stage right now, I'm taking

Marcus Smart. Really? I'm taking Marcus. Even though he shoots like 30% from three. I get it. I get it. But he earned those anytime, anytime, anytime Marcus Mart took a three, I'd be like, and then I'm like, oh, what are you so keep? But he did so much in defense. Let's just let him have it. And then when he hits it, you're like, yay! That's how it is.

Then she just articulated it. I feel like that's what Celtic fans feel about Marcus Mart. He's adorable. He's ours. He's so gritty. Oh, he's not good enough. The heat are better. Send him away. Yeah. No, there's no send him away. I had no send him away. He was crushed. I was devastated when he did him. He said, yeah. But that's the difference

between fan base and management. Management was like, no, we need someone better. We think Drew holiday is better than Marcus. I think there was something else important going on that can that helps me get over this because I loved him too, which is it seemed like from a lot of anecdotes that came out during the season that there was this problem, which was it was Marcus's team. And everyone was deferring to him all the time, especially when he was on the court, but when he wasn't on the court, he was pouting because he wasn't on the court. And then when he was on the court, there was this sense of like, well, does Marcus think

that what I'm doing is okay? And that's why at key moments, multiple times in the playoffs, the worst shot that was taken, that was to win a game was a Marcus, smart three. And that was the shot that ended up getting taken. That's a problem. And there was that anecdote where Joe Mizzula, where Butler was going crazy in the heat series. And Jalen Brown went over to Joe Mizzula, I think, and said, Hey, I want a guard, Butler. And Joe's response was ask

Marcus. So that's not good. And so if that's the situation, it's not just to me about what he did for the team, his abilities, even his position on the team. It's like, this has to become Tatum's team. And if Marcus was there, I don't think he was ever going to become Tatum's team. And so I think that maybe there was a little bit of that calculation going on here where let's get a guy who, I think, as a total package is as good or better than Mark is smart as a player. And it might be a kind of, even, it might be that they needed to trade him to allow the team to fully. I mean, who's making an argument on behalf of chemistry? He's making an argument on behalf

of office politics. Yeah. And like that isn't that the, isn't the NBA the place where that stuff matters? Maybe the most of any sport. Absolutely. And I think that is a strong argument to make, except for the fact that people tend to focus on the parts that they don't like, right? The, oh, markets and markets takes bad shots and everyone differs to markets. But markets is also the guy when they're, who calls them out. And I don't know if Juhaha is going to do that, right?

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It's just that as long as he was there, there was good, there was no chance that it has to, Tatum has to take over. He just has to take over that team, I think. I think when that becomes the ceiling, when Marcus Mart's ability because of his influence on the team and because of the psychological role, I can see what you're saying. It's like you have to be able to move beyond that. And if he is controlling things and he's not comfortable

moving beyond his own ownership of this thing, then you do start running into problems. And I don't, you know, I wasn't in the locker room to know where that line was, but that did, that didn't make me feel better, Mike. I did like what you said. I'm like, Oh, okay. Maybe. And then I mean, here's the other thing. If you had same thing, you're a GM, all the NBA players in a pool, you have, there's time, Lord, and there's porzinga.

No, knowing both of their injury history. Who are you taking? See, this is the interesting thing because Robert Williams has basically a clock on his knee. Yeah. Like it's gonna get worse because he had the removal and not the repair. And so this degenerates over time. So yes, there's an argument. You got to move him when his value is at its highest. And this is where it is. Having said that, however many games that dude missed in the, in the regular season, he plays in the playoffs and he's incredibly impactful when he plays. Yes. And for Zingas, you can't say that about him because he's been on teams that haven't

been good enough to go to playoffs. And when they do, he hasn't really done much in that regard. And also not exactly a vision of health either. My biggest thing is when I look at the Celtics, three guys they lost, smart Williams and Williams. And that's like there are three toughest guys with the biggest users, Sedano phrase from earlier dog in them. They got the dog in them. I brought that out. Oh, you know, that's, I'm sorry. Thank you.

Women in sports class. Like women in town. No, the Sedanos always text you the dog. I know, I know, I know. I hate it. You guys need to stop with the dog in them. I agree. I agree.

I agree. I agree. I got us enough of this. Yeah, but I will say though, what I mean is saying there is super interesting because people got on me for saying that he just broke up that team. Now I'm doing that provocatively just to be an asshole. But they did take away the three pieces that were the toughness pieces. And now I'm like, sure, is in here arguing to me,

hey, Tatum didn't have the strength to take the team from Marcus Mark. It had to be given to him. It had to be handed over to him so that he can be the boss. Say something else. Grant Williams has that dog in him. It had to be handed over to him so that he can be the boss. Say something else. Graham Williams has that dog in him. Correct. However, Graham Williams is also the guy who, when he was fouled and was getting taunted on the court, was very clearly mouthing the phrase, I'm going to make them both. I'm going to make them both. And then he missed both. So like the dog in you get to you

to a certain level of success. And then also there need to be people who actually can make free throws. And so I look, I would rather have when when the set and this just preseason, Celtics are running their offense. It's basically as far as I can tell in my limited knowledge, the same offense they were running last year. But there's like there's the ball swings around. There's penetration. The ball gets kicked out. It's now in the hands of, of porzingus who shoots 39% from three. And instead of Marcus smart, who shoots like 14% from three.

But they're cute. So I look all this stuff, all this stuff is real. All this like they are the, those were the three of the toughest guys on the team, but the skill on the court right now to me is seems better. And I think at a, this team has been so close for so many years now. They've played deep into the playoffs every year for seven years. And I think something had to change. That's my, that's my optimistic. He makes a good argument. He makes a good argument. Can I leave him this? I feel incredible. He makes a good argument right up. The juju put it on the pole, please. Does that dog in him have a good free throw shooting

percentage? You can't because he's so right about this. Like I don't know if they're it doesn't seem like they're going to be tougher. I find that hard to believe. Unless someone else takes a step up and says, I will assume that mantle. Drew, how they brings toughness for sure. But I don't mean him. I just need silky smooth,

Jason Tatum to be really amazing at the end of games. You're also, you're way underestimating how tough Sam Housers, all of you. And Peyton Pritchard. You mentioned that. all of you. And Peyton Bridget. You mentioned that.