The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - Hour 1: Nothing Better Than a Good Buffet

Episode Date: November 20, 2023

Fox Sports college football analyst Joel Klatt joins the show to talk about how impeccable he is. The Lions are historically good...for them. Jerry Jones will never die. Plus, Andscape contributor Justin Tinsley joins us to talk about Diddy and Cassie Ventura's civil lawsuit. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You're listening to Giraffe King's Network. This is the Dunlabel Tarshall with the Stugat's Podcast. This man is impeccable at looking like flawless broadcast. Yep. The hair, the chiseled face, the perfect teeth, the voice, and right behind him, the Joel Clutch show. How much did it cost to get that made? Where did you get that made?

Tell me the entire backstory on how it is that you got shining over your shoulder, something that just celebrates your resplendent perfection in every broadcasting way. Yeah, that's right. Well, first I thought to myself, you know, what could be the noxious thing to put right behind me? And then it, like the light went off. And I'm like, perfect.

How about a lighted sign with my name? You know, nothing screams humility like that. You know, we, I started my podcast last year and it was just in, in my office, my office, my, you know, was painted kind of dark and, and everybody on, on the, on the team with my, my show kept being like, we need to light up your office and either light, and, and we really need to have like a sign of your show. And I was like, okay. So Fox builds a sign that kept saying like,

yeah, we're gonna redo your office and then put a sign up. And they rolled this thing in and I'm like, what in the world is that? And they're like, oh yeah, this is your lighted sign. And I'm like, okay, well, one, that's not obnoxious at all, but here we go. It gives off great expertise.

You are someone who knows his college football. You know you're draft analysis. So let me begin here with a couple of questions. Caleb Williams did not meet with the press after their last loss. USC is sort of strange in their relationships with how it is that they're dealing with the media. And it's been in a bismill year that Lincoln Riley is saying there are three plays from having a lot more victories.

But your opinion has moved it all on Drake May, Caleb Williams, and what there is at the top of this draft. You know, I think that two things can be true at once. I think you can be disappointed in the way that Caleb has handled the media at times and even Lincoln at times, you know, not making players available. And at the same time, say that it's not going to affect his draft stock nor should it. He's going to have to learn that you're not allowed to just run away and not talk to the media at the next level, you know ask Martian Lynch of that

Now that went So he's gonna have to answer and not only answer, but you're not answering for yourself at that point You know at the next level you become what the head coach is at the college level Which is the face of the organization the face of the the the program if you want to call it that and so every single the face of the program if you want to call it that. And so every single person in the organization is gonna hang on every word that you say. And he's gonna have to learn that. But when it comes down to just straight evaluation,

Dan, this guy is still a uniquely talented player. I break it down this way. When I'm looking at a quarterback for the draft, there's really five categories that I'm trying to evaluate on. One is your mind. You control the game with your mind. The other is your arm, your arm talent.

Can you create plays outside of the pocket when things break down? Are you a threat with your legs as a runner? And then can you control the game from the pocket, changing speeds and doing all the things necessary? And I can honestly say that as I evaluate Caleb, I've never evaluated a quarterback coming into the draft where I could say he's elite in all five categories. There have guys that have been like decent or good, but generally speaking, everybody

has one category where they fall short. And he's one of the only guys that I can't say that about. And I know that the comparison is always going to be to Patrick Mahomes, but it's certainly there. And, and the fact that he is so dangerous once he's creating and, and the fact that he has shown now and proved that he can almost alone move a, a team up and down the field. He's, he's still to me the, the best player in the drafts. Can you explain to me why I have it wrong when I say that quarterback evaluation seems to really stink even among the experts? Yeah, because I think what we don't take into consideration is the environment that they're going to go and be asked to perform in.

It's the fit question. Generally speaking, these organizations that are at the top of the draft are there for a reason. And when you talk with guys in the league, and when you tell, and this is the dirty secret of it all, when you talk with guys who have played in the league and in particular that are done, they will tell you, almost every one of them. There's eight or nine teams at the beginning of the year that can actually win the Super Bowl.

And it's not always just because of the roster or their quarterback, but it's because of the organization and the structure of the organization and the quality of the organization. And those teams don't select at the top of the draft, number one. And so what has to happen is that these players, they not only are taking a giant leap individually and trying to play their position, which is the hardest position at sports at a totally different level and at a more elite level,

but they're having to do that in the midst of what you can call some brokenness and chaos. They're being selected in that spot for a reason and then they're being asked to be the catalyst to change it. And then ever increasing as we move forward in the society, they want it. We want it now. And now CJ Stroud has, has outsized expectations for the next crew. So everyone, now we feel like everybody that comes in, who's the top five pick,

you've got a BCJ Stroud, you can't struggle like Bryce Young. That's not allowed anymore. So it's the level of expectation. It's the brokenness of the organization that you go to. I think that's why it's not always necessarily the evaluation. Look at me. Am I giving myself an out? I think that was guys. I think it is. It's everyone else. It's the broken team. It's everybody else. It's the broken teams everybody. Well done by you. It's been answering this. Oh my God. It's been you. It's everybody else's fault. It's the great moment of each reflection. Amazing. What a great.

Who does that? So rare in the media for someone to consider weight. Amen. And you still look great though. I think you said when you do it, your hair still looks perfect. That's right.

That's right. And the sign still is shining. Imagine that. Chinese or tea. Joel, we were discussing earlier today, Jordan Travis and that grew some injury. And I'm wondering how you feel about this. Should the committee factor the fact

that he's not going to be there for the playoff? Should they factor that into their decision making as it relates to the playoffs? I mean, they're supposed to. I hate this. I mean, gosh, I mean, this game is so unforgiving. I hate this for this kid. I really was like brokenhearted because he's been through it.

You know, he's been through the low moments at Florida State and he's put this team in a position to achieve at a level that they haven't achieved since Jamest left and that they feel like they should be at. And I was loving watching him play. Having said that, even with him on the field, there were some questions about their overall dominance, even as an undefeated. I think that we can all say that that's fair with some of the performances that they've had in close games that they've had with teams that

are not great. So what here's what happens is that yes, it does need to be factored from the committee. And there's always there's already been a precedent of this. Think back to the first year of the playoff in 2014 Ohio State lost JT Barrett late in the season. And Cardell Jones had to come out. The reason that Ohio State made the playoff isn't just because of what they, you know, their record. Oh, they won the game.

They hammered Wisconsin in that big 10 championship game. I believe it was 59 nothing that they won that game. And it was because of that reason that the committee was like, okay, yes, you are still a dominant enough team to go to the playoff. They got the fourth seed and they wound up winning the national championship. I think that the same is true for this Florida state team. Now the pressure is on. They've got to go out there and against a very average Florida team. I think that they've got a show that they can be

dominant and they can play at the top end. If they just squeak by and it's really clear that they're not what they were before the injury, then I think the committee is going to take that into consideration. And part of this also, guys, is that there's a lot of teams vying for that spot. And part of this also guys is that there's a lot of teams vying for that spot, you know, in that 14 year Ohio State kind of snuck in because you know, it was, it was bleak if you want to call it that there was a lot of chaos. This year I don't think that that's going to be the case. There's going to be a lot of really good teams vying for that last spot. How many SEC teams do you think are better than Ohio State and Michigan? One.

And third, right? Like I think Alabama is good. I think that Alabama, Michigan and Ohio State are all probably similar in the fact that they are very good football teams with question marks and areas of their team that I would have questions about whether they can play at the top end. I don't have those questions about Georgia right now. Georgia is 128 straight games. They're clearly the best team in the country.

They're marching towards a third national title. And in a lot of ways, they remind me a bit of what the Patriots did under Tom Brady. You know, Dan, like, the, the guy went to 10 Super Bowls. Why? Because everybody knew they had to, they had to deal with Tom at some point. And you would have, and a lot of times in Foxboro. Well, Georgia is starting to feel that way. Regardless of what goes on in September or even early October, you're going to have to

deal with Georgia and they're always going to be playing their best at the right time. And so from that standpoint, I would say Georgia is better. They don't have the questions that those other teams have. But I do still think Michigan and Ohio State are very good football teams. We're headed into Michigan and Ohio State biggest football game of the year. Almost quietly, Michigan dismissed a linebacker's coach that it was reported had maybe taken a hand in destroying some evidence regarding the Conor Stallion stuff. And then Bruce Feldman had reported that there's a chance that this Jim Harbaugh suspension bleeds into next season.

And since then Michigan has dropped the injunction that they were looking at. Has Michigan quietly folded this really public defense of theirs and decided that they're just going to swallow this one headed into this game against Ohio State. I think it was very clear that there was some evidence presented by the big tan or the NCAA that made it incredibly obvious that they won weren't going to get the injunction. So they could go to court and lose publicly, which would have looked awful. And that evidence implicated some people on the staff. And they said, okay, rather than this publicly playing out and then us having to reactively fire someone or remove someone, let's pull the reins back you know, pull the reins back a little bit here and

let's evaluate this with much more clear eyes. And that's what they did. And, and they took the suspension and they backed down. But I think that it was the evidence that was presented to them and saying, and, and the NCA and the big 10 more specifically that said, just so you know, on Friday, before the judge, like, this is what we're gonna give them. And Michigan was like, oh, oh, well, like, how about we just do the three? Is the three good, you know? Like, yeah, I think the three is good.

I think it, I think it's hard to get Joel on stuff with college football, so I'm gonna try and get him right now with something I believe he does not know. Were you aware, were you aware Joel, that Syracuse's quarter back this weekend was a perfect 14 for 14 for 59 yards? I knew he was 14 for 14, but I did not know it was only for 59 yards. I saw like the efficiency number and I was like,

oh, that's a good day, but 59, that's how I did it. I don't know. Dino papers will not be routine. Yes, and further news, Dino papers let go and Sarah Hughes, and you wonder why. Boy, that's a lot of screen passes for one yard. Love the sign, Joe, love the work. Thank you for being here. It should be bigger the work. Thank you. It should be bigger. The side. I feel like I should be. That's right. I also had like,

you know, I'm representing the sponsor right here too, Hampton. And I'm with Hampton. That's why I'm kind of going around and doing these interviews. And I would just say, guys, I'm really thankful for them. Their consistency, they make it easy to travel 100 plus nights a year. So that consistency, I really rely on and I'm thankful that they give me this opportunity to come and talk college football with you guys. That was an excellent promo that I forgot to do. The Joe Clad show, wherever it is, you get your podcasts. Thank you, sir. You bet. I appreciate it. See you guys. Don LeBotard. He's like, he needs a wheelbarrow like Mike McDaniel, this dog. Got a pair. He's like, he needs a wheelbarrow like Mike McDaniel this dog. Um, got a pair. He's got a

man. Man does he get a pair? My granddaughter sees his shlong. What? He says, she says, what's that? She doesn't know. She did. He's wearing daughters. My granddaughter saw his shlong in the kitchen. And she said, what is that? What is this game of clue? I said that's what he pees through. Okay. That was very good. Stugats.

It was a little extended. I don't know why he was so excited. All right, very baby. No. Can we be? I take this out. It is a baby. Anyway, he ate my couch.

This is the Don Lebatar Show with his two cats. My 11th most interesting observation from the NFL weekend's two cats combined with the lions being eight and two for the first time since the 1960s. It's really been a remarkably shitty run for the Detroit Lions. It really has a lack of playoff victories. It's the only fan base. Other fan bases complain, oh, we haven't done it in this long. It's the only fan base as a jet fan that I will allow to, you know,

share the same kind of suffering as I do because they've shared the same kind of suffering as I have over the last 40 years. The only fan base. That's a browns too. Now the browns, the plan's interesting. Now the browns want to a bunch of AFC championship games with Bernie Kovac. Yeah. Many other fans don't even aren't old enough to remember that stuff, you know, I'm just saying.

The lions have it worse than everybody. But in that game yesterday, to God's, Chicago was up 26-21 with the ball, and Justin Fields had a third and nine, and I really do love that he decided to sling it 50 yards downfield on third and nine. They didn't get it by a yard. Like he was a yard long on the throw, but that on third and nine, 26, 21, the air is clearly leaking out of the balloon. You gotta be careful, you were up 26, 14.

Everybody was watching that game thinking, Detroit's going to come back, because we know the bears are bad. And on third and nine, I do love that Justin Fields decided to go deep. Unfortunately, he may be replaced by Caleb Williams next year because we're may not because we don't know. We don't know. That's true. But they're going to have a choice to make at the top of

the draft, whether they want the quarterback, they have or whether they want a new quarterback. And the one they have ran for more than a hundred yards yesterday was dancing after one of the runs because he played pretty well. I just love the attitudes to God's have no. I'm not going slant here. I'm not going down and out. Nope. I believe in myself and my ability to make the throw that he made earlier in the game to DJ Moore, a ridiculous throw that he made earlier in the game, and he missed it by yard. But that game was very close to the Detroit Lions, not having the eight and two record for the first time since the 1960s. Mike, it is going to be interesting. It was a good loss for the Bears because they have Carolina's peg. They also have their own picks. They'll have two of the top four or five picks in the NFL draft. Fields, the last three games has been before the injury had two great games. A touchdowns,

one interception. Yesterday at Detroit was really good. And it's a good quarterback class. So this is going to be interesting to see what they do with those two pigs. Well, they could possibly get something for Fields too, who's got to put out some tape there because I think you show him at his best that he's certainly worthy of being a starting quarterback in the NFL, but the move is, no matter how good Justin Fields looks, outside of Patrick Maholmes, Nick Redux,

you have to reset the rookie wage scale clock and take one of these quarterbacks. Mike Ryan was very worried yesterday for the first time about the general status of Jerry Jones because he is up there in age. He is fighting Stugat to win again giant the way that he did under Jimmy Johnson and mortality at the same time. The man has everything from life and football that can possibly be had. However, since letting go of Jimmy Johnson in one of the pettiest disputes to ever record champion, one of the most ego soaked public and Sanities that

you will ever find in leadership. You had Jimmy Johnson with a cowboys team that was dominant over everybody. And he and Jerry Jones were running the sport. And then Jimmy left because he couldn't get along with Jerry. And Jimmy has enjoyed the last 30 years of getting away from football, being retired, legitimately changing. I've told you this before, no adult I've ever met in my life. Never mind sports. Anybody I've ever met has changed more in old age than Jimmy Johnson did going

from loving football being obsessed by it, being hugely cruel and mean to people in the name of leadership to making a gagging vomiting sound when he talks about coaching a football team and what that required of him. He and Jerry Jones feuded and he was saying, Jimmy was, that Jerry Jones, he did not believe, would put him in the Dallas ring of honor while Jimmy was still alive. He was saying that will not happen while I'm still alive. But yesterday they announced, finally, Jerry Jones, while playing in Carolina Dallas dragged Caroline even though Frank Reich is now taken over play calling responsibilities. And here is the, it doesn't matter. He took the wrong quarterback.

Here is the awkward exchange between Jerry Jones, Jimmy Johnson and what has been a historically petty thing. But I will say this is magical the time we together, and I want you to know something. On December the 30th, you had a 1923, you're going in the Dallas Cowboy ring. Yes, Texas. Oh, it's 2023. Oh, it's 2023. What does it say?

2023. Wow. Well, that is 2023. How many do you want wanna get this real clear? Okay, three weeks from now. Four-foot. I feel like Jimmy's just gotta let that one slide. Yeah, I did have it.

He's calling him half. Yeah, he can't let 19, 23 slide. One last bar before we're probably gonna swear that. Yeah, we're gonna. You can still be 19, 23. He loves that mistake, Jimmy loved that mistake. Jimmy loved correcting Jimmy. You have to put me in the ring of honor like that at 80 years old I don't think Jimmy's gonna get a lot more public joys than the one

of yeah you're put me in the ring of honor before I'm dead you have to and also it's not 100 years it got it's not 1923 let me correct you in front of a national audience, even though I didn't think you'd put me in there until 21, 23. You gotta put me in right now. Is that Jerry just feeling the moment of that and getting nervous or is it just old age? Both.

Yes. Because he actually did seem nervous. You don't really see Jerry like that a lot. They don't like each other. It seems like they do now. No. No. He's bowing to other. It seems like they do now. No. No. He's bowing to the public, saying it should be done.

Like, why would Jerry give in if they have, they seem to be no. No. No. No. No. But what reasons does Jerry have to give in to him? No.

No. Maybe just the nope. No. No. This is a pretty good endorsement for retiring to the keys as opposed to doing whatever the hell Jerry Jones has been doing over the last 30 years. Because they're the same age.

They're, one's 81 and one is 80. One's been living Texas big, and the other guy's just been relaxing in the keys. Is that McDonald's breakfast? Wow. That extra salted McBrill. Ha, ha, ha, ha, print. I think the difference between them is that one of them is Jimmy Johnson. And the other one had Jimmy Johnson 30 years ago and has been ravaged by football

since. Yeah, that one with Barry Switzer did not do much. He said he could win with any one of 500 coaches. It's what ran Jimmy out of there. And then he proved it did by taking Jimmy's players and winning once with Barry Switzer, but Barry Switzer ruined his. His switzer in the ring. He great if he puts switzer before Jimmy. I don't think Barry Switzer is in the ring.

But he hired Barry Switzer just to bother Jimmy. Watch this. Yep. And it's only because I can't hire Ronald McDonald to do it It was it was to show Jimmy watch what I do with these players and and God almighty Troy Ickman and the rest of them hated Barry didn't Barry get caught in an airport with a gun. Wasn't he having lunch at strip clubs? Like during these things as if they're bad. I'm just saying they weren't championship medal is all I'm saying. I'm not I'm not saying. I'm not. I'm not saying. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm buffets in general buffets i've heard put it on the pole at lebertar show do you love a buffet at lebertar show i think the audience was offended because

i told the audience that i felt like uh... majority of them were golden corral people but i don't mean that is a slight i like a buffet i'm a golden corral type of person though i haven't been there in many years i could i could you walk into the golden corral you know how has like a gluten free area? No.

What an extra gluten area actually. The chocolate fountain. Do you think you're an extra gluten on the chocolate fountain? Well, the chocolate fountain at, I believe that's dangerous, said golden corral. I believe that is one place that you have to be careful with. Anywhere there's a fountain, I'm out of there. Because you don't know a lot of fingers being put into that thing

and just get kind of recycled it. I don't like that. Put it on the pole, please, at Levitage Show, Juju, is the chocolate fountain at the Golden Corral a dangerous game? Gotta eat a peck of dirt before you die. Who was your aunt who said that? My Nana, my dad, my little brother.

He's really good to your dad, man. A peck, a peck much bigger than it sounds. A peck, a peck, much bigger than it sounds. A peck is like a full sack. Yeah, it is. Yeah. Yeah. No, it is. He's right.

A peck sounds like a peck, like a tiny, you know, a little bit. It's a big, big deal. It is. It's a full sack. Look it up. What's that? The Trump just come out of here. I have no idea.

I was just trying to support Chris. I bailed on him earlier. He was feeling bad. So we're back. We're back. We're back. I have no idea. I was the biggest support Chris I bailed on him earlier. I was feeling bad I was a lot of the Trump cadence is more than anybody I had with the hand testing he has a lot of of that Poison not not not the overall ideals But the cadence and the delivery. Thank you. Some of the ideal some of the ideal Did you ever think we'd see them make up? Did you

ever think that we'd see Jimmy Johnson and Jerry Jones make up? No. As a 90s kid, and I don't know if this is actually the rivalry with such that I'm not sure it still doesn't have twists and turns in it. I hate taxes. But to see Jerry Jones on Fox NFL coverage and break the news to Jimmy Johnson, he's gonna be inducting him into the ring of honors Some nice little close loop for kids that grew up in the 90s. I think he knew though, right? I mean he flew in for that like Fox the premium show wasn't there. No, I'm sure he caught wind Why otherwise why the hell am I in Carolina right now with loud music playing during this interview? He really doesn't want to leave the keys for any reason.

Who would? I love how Fox is like no host here. Just you two, go ahead. Yeah. Good idea. This won't be awkward at all. 280-year-olds, go ahead and do live, tell it. I didn't mean 20 years.

Oh, Sherry couldn't use one. Who was calling the game? They could have just brought that person over, right? Not to be more of his buyers. Had to be Chris Myers. I mean, they're both in their 80s. That's all the Carolina games. He's got to be Chris Myers. I mean, they're both in their ratings. That's all the Carolina games. He's the voice.

I'm not sure how much longer we've got of them. So I'm going to enjoy it while I got them. You know, it is. I think they're going to die soon. Generally, I mean, I'm not long enough time going to die. What do you do? Well, it's just I'm happy that they're getting this resolution to it. I disagree with you.

Put it on the pole, juju. Is Jerry Jones ever going to die. Don Lebertard. You are very comfortable talking about how you met your wife, how much you love her, how important she is to you. And that's the reason that I asked the question. I've always admired that about you that you are and you have no problems whatsoever, professing your love.

Well, thank you. Is of I got a new wife now, you know, me and Bianca didn't make it. So I moved on. We moved on. It was for the better of both of us still got things just got a little awkward there. So let me be the first on this show to congratulate you on the new wife. Vance, congratulations on, on, on feeling whole, feeling complete, you know, let's talk tailgating. Yeah.

Don't be those, don't feel awkward, buddy. No, I don't. I mean, it's too late for that sense. I appreciate you soothing me in this regard, but I already feel terribly awkward. And then my teammate comes to my defense with not a question. But just a healthy congratulations. And the further pointing out of that awkwardness because he's always good for me in those spots, I'm also thinking of divorce vents after many, many years, 18 years with a partner who does things like that to you. This is the Don Lebertar Show with the Stugats. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ Stugats, the Ditty stories this weekend that were coming out and the settlement,

all of it I found to be quite a labyrinth, quite a web, the idea that Diddy would settle so quickly when he had a lawyer and money advantage that could have possibly allowed him to fight, suggested to me that there was truth there. And I think a lot of people were jumping to that conclusion, but there's a trigger warning here. In a federal lawsuit Thursday, the singer Cassie claim that she was, quote, trapped in a cycle of abuse violence and sex trafficking. She alleged that Diddy raped her, punched, beat, kicked, and stomped her, forced her to perform sex acts on male prostitutes while Diddy masturbated and filmed them, that he got her addicted drugs, that he blew up, kid cutties car after finding out that she dated him

and kid cutty confirmed that, did he vehemently denied the claim? His lawyer said Cassie had been demanding $30 million for six months, but Friday came the settlement. Justin Tinsley is a senior sports and culture reporter for ESPN to unskate. He's the author if it was all a dream, biggie and the world that made him.. Thank you for making the time you've also written about hip hop's bad history

with the me two movement and the misogyny that has plagued the industry. So let's begin here. How surprised were you and thank you for joining us by the details in these allegations? You know for one, thank you for having me, Dan, it's too, I guess the answer is yes, I was surprised and Noah wasn't surprised. Yes, because anytime you start a lawsuit with the trigger warning, you're thinking like, what the hell am I about to get myself into? But I don't think anybody could have imagined the details that were in there. So yes, that's what I was shocked by.

But no, because what I've learned in my time covering the music industry hip hop and far beyond is that it's ran of money, power, respect, and ironically, that's the title of a classic song in Diddy's universe. But because of that, it can be a very dark place. And we've heard the horror stories about the music industry as long as the music industry's been alive.

So unfortunately, there's this dark underbellied where people are made to feel like they're disposable. Sometimes as artists in their contracts, other times is the allegations that are in this lawsuit. And the sad part is, I don't think we'll ever truly know the full extent of which. Is it fair to jump to conclusions on the speed with which did he settled this?

I Think especially from the outside looking in I think it is fair because we'll never know all the details that were inside But you know when I when I've spoken to you know people who who I who I trust in inside the legal industry And I'm like is it I honestly ask the same question, Dan, like, is it fair for me to assume that there was a lot of truth within this lawsuit? And the resounding answer was it would be fair to assume that, you know, without getting themselves like in any sort of jeopardy

or anything. But that's, I think we all had the same reaction when we saw that. How fearful a persona was, did he? Because that isn't something that I associated with him necessarily. Yeah, so when we talk about instilling fear into people and just the urban legends that come with it, you know, for a long time,

that's been associated with Shugnight, the former head of Death Row Records. And we all understand the history that comes with the East and West Coast bad boy and death row. But the thing is, when you cover the music industry for so long, like you always hear stories, one, I think the biggest red flag against Puffy in terms of just his history and business was just how he allegedly treated his artists with, you know, bad contracts or, you know, publishing rights. And so that was the big one that like, yeah, he, you know, his business with artists is

always kind of up in the air. And then it's like, maybe he's hard to work with. But then, you know, you always hear of intimate rumors and a lot of times they're just that. But when I read this lawsuit, it, you know, now you have to incorporate those details when discussing the life and the legacy of Sean Cohns because this is just as important as, you know,

launching Bad Boy in 1993 and helping launch the careers of Mary J. Blige and Joe to see and like that. This is just as important, if not more important than anything else. What are we to make of hip hop and its public reckoning with the times changing? You see on one hand, rappers like DeBaby effectively be canceled, like their careers genuinely hurt by their scandals. But we see artists like Diddy continue being

the public eye, despite whispers being around them. We have Snoop Dogg on a bash about what he said in the past. We also see other artists kind of move away from what they used to do. And Chris Brown, Syla Gigantic artist, it artists kind of move away from what they used to do. And Chris Brown, Syla Gigantic artist, it's kind of confusing to me. Does the audience for hip hop just kind of pick and choose depending on the catalog? Yeah, so this is a conversation that's been had in various forms for so long because there's not always one answer to it. When I think of a cultural

awakening, the people in power is the fans. We're looking at it like, hey, look, this is a major scar that we can't continue to willingly deepen, you know, and they're multiple scars. So we can't say protect women. We can't say, you know, protect these black lives, protect victims and not follow up with tangible action behind it. And in a broad sense, that's actually is, right? Tangible action behind like an epiphany. So does that happen? That's a totally different reality.

And honestly, man, I just don't know, but I saw this video of the rapper, and excuse me, Slim Thug talking yesterday on the Cassie and Diddy situation, saying like victims should speak out in real time when this abuse has happened and it should be a time limit. Like look in an ideal world would it be great if victims spoke up immediately after being abused? Sure, but that's not even remotely realistic. And what it does is create this

fallacy of abuse being easy to get out of when it's not rooted in greed and power in the worst forms of manipulation. So there were allegations in this lawsuit about medical records not even going to Cassie. And so when you hear all of that, like you understand where this fear comes from, you understand how this could happen for so long. You understand that there are time limits to everything, hence why this wasn't a criminal case and rather a civil case. So I think like if we're going to have a reckoning about this in multiple other issues within the genre, part of it comes which is making ourselves knowledgeable on matters such as these saying, Hey, you know what?

I was wrong at first, but I can't continue to be wrong and I can't continue to allow anyone else to be wrong either. Will this impact his career moving forward? That is going, that is the, that's the $10 million questions to honestly. The answer is, I think in the, in the short term, I believe it will, you know, this really, from a business standpoint, this really impacts how you can be nominated for awards. This really makes all the good will that he had going into this from donating the million dollars to Jackson State or to getting the Global Honor Rear Award at the VMAs or the key from the city from Mayor Eric Adams earlier this year. A short term I think it will from a business portfolio standpoint. Now long term, will this continue to help evolve a much necessary conversation around domestic

violence, around intimate partner violence and things of that nature? I hope so, but just in the past, it doesn't give me the greatest confidence in the world. I just struggle with, look, we saw the Super Bowl halftime, Dr. Dre performed at the Super Bowl halftime, he had stuff in his past. It'll be interesting to see when Kanye drops his album, what exactly the audience will be for it, what the cultural reaction will be to it.

Hip hop is a little bit different. They play by different rules and the marketplace does speak for itself and the metrics are undeniable. There was a time where something like this would be good for one's brand. And now, with regards to Diddy, this was somebody that just dropped an album that was trying to come back into the pop culture zeitgeist, not that he had ever really left, but to be a relevant portion of the pop culture zeitgeist. Typically, we've seen this before in Hollywood, when one story's out there,

and there's a lot of allegations here, there's no shortage. If you look at social media, no shortage of people willing to talk about their experiences with Ditty. And now that this is out there, investigators and journalists are gonna be poking around. Might this be the beginning of problems for Diddy?

I mean, just how we've seen things play out in the past, you would think that like, ah, man, whether it's smoke, there's fire, right? There has to be. That's what the logic says. But, you know, we'll see. And, you know, it makes you go back and look at something like given your bad boy artists their publishing after all these years in a move that was called surprising by multiple outlets. And you're like, well, what was the reasoning for all this? And you know, there a lot of allegations towards Diddy have lived on the internet,

have lived on YouTube, have lived on social media for years. So, you know, it'll be interesting to see if, like you said, man, if this is the start of, you know, a really, really major legal headache for Ditty, or if this was just a one-off, and even if it is just a one-off, what is the impact of this one-off? Because guess what, we all saw that lawsuit,

we all know the details that were in it there, they're going to live on the internet for the rest of all of our lives in some form. So how does this really impact them? I wish I knew the answer, but I just don't until we see it. But I think immediately in the short term, we won't be hearing a lot from him for right now. I'm curious.

I'm going to ask you kind of a personal question here because I think it would be unfair to make you speak for hip hop here. I know how I experienced certain musicians that I had held in high regard, had an affinity for some like Ryan Adams, who I've just totally stopped listening to. Others that are a little bit trickier. Like David Bowie has his history, Prince has his history. Michael Jackson's one of these artists like, man, yeah, there was a lot there, but he had some songs songs didn't he?

Yeah, and I'm curious how you go about some of these things when you listen back to some of the hip hop that you grew up listening to Yeah, I know I'm a NEM fan certainly because he was among the most vocal and some of the like in terms of the public eye, certainly one that met a lot of scrutiny. How do you experience that era of hip hop? How do you view these artists now that you've gotten older, these artists that you've grown up and trying to reconcile with a different time? Hair metal, I think, also has some of this too. Where yeah, we knew how Motley Crew treated women

and Motley Crews, still headlining festivals and all that. And I wonder if hip hop is gonna be judged by, if certain acts are gonna be judged by the time and the morals where they peaked and how does that age? That is such a fascinating question and there's one that I think about all the time because look, Lord knows I'm not perfect.

I'll probably tell you some of my favorite artists right now and I might look like a hypocrite but I have to judge this on like, for me, I do it on case by case basis and a lot of cases. And a lot of times I make the same decision. But like for somebody like Arkelli, I used to always play Arkelli's music. And then, you know, I realized what my role is

and helping him further, you know, whatever it is that he was doing. So I had to just come to the realization one day, I was like, man, as much as I like this music back in the day, I can't continue to listen to it. And so for him, I was like, I completely put them off to the side. And I think about arguably my favorite artist of all time, Tupac Shakur.

And, you know, we understand the life that he lived and all the great things that he did, but there's also, you know, his sexual assault case in 1994. And, you know, how that played out. And I have to, you know, reconcile that in my head, knowing that, you know, this is an undeniable, an irreplaceable part of his story just as much as the great musical,

the great interviews, or the things that he stepped for. So I think for a lot of people within hip hop, you're never really going to see a universal opinion on this person can stay, this person has to go mainly because each person's standards for what you can accept are so different. Like my standards are different from, you know, my next door neighbor or even the person down the street. And as much as I try to, here's how I feel about the situation and here's the reason why I feel about the situation,

I can't expect everyone to feel like that because it's just never gonna happen at the same time. So I can't explain why some can stay and some can. Maybe like you said, it is a time period. Maybe it is like you said just how much you really like the music. And you can be willing to place things to decide where, whereas some people can't. It's an imperfect science because human beings are literally the definition of imperfect. So. Two questions with the less that a minute that we have less. What was Diddy's reputation behind the scenes

and in the lawsuit that includes rape and blowing up kid cutty's car? What were the details that jumped out to you from the lawsuit? Man, it was just one paragraph after another. Like you always hear the the intimate rumors between people in the music industry. You never know how true it actually is. But then when you start reading like, again, like the medical records being sent to him, her being sent away for weeks at a time to allegedly recover from injuries, allegedly

blown up K cut his car and then getting K-Cutty's representation to confirm that in the article. Like, this is reading something like a villain script. And I was shocked at the depth of it. I understood what the ref lags were about, Diddy. But the depth of that, I don't think anybody saw coming. What can you tell us about the relationship that 50 cent and Diddy had? Because 50 cent has been trying to tell people a variety of things for a while.

50 and did he have not seen eye to eye in a long, long time. And if you're familiar with 50 cent on social media every now and he will always poke fun. At did he I don't even have enough time to give you the full history between them too. But if there's anybody in hip hop in terms of artists that are going to speak out against Ditty for better and for worse, it will be 50 cent. Senior sports and culture reporter for ESPN's Andscape can't believe you're already senior, sir. I remember when you were junior. Thank you, y'all. Thank you for always being junior.

Thank you for being on with us, Justin. We appreciate it. Thank you, fellas. Thank you for having me on. Thank you for always being Junior. Thank you for being on with us Justin. We appreciate it. Thank you fellas.

Thank you for having me on.