The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - Hour 1: Perception Is Not Reality

Episode Date: February 17, 2025

Mike's Chickens, Perk up perk down, Kevin Durant, NBA, NBA fans, Jerry Rice, Barry Bonds, NHL, 4 Nations, Juxtaposition, Baseball, Basketball, Hockey, regular season games, Perception is reality, Perception is not reality, Noticing the differences between the all-star games, 4 nations, NBA tournament, NFL, International, Game is boring, White Sox, Tim Anderson, Black baseball player, baseball is boring, Kaepernick, NBA, Adam Silver, Kendrick Lamar, Boo an Anthem, Canada, How different it would be if NBA was in Canada, Domonique Foxworth is here, David Stern, Iron fist, When Adam Silver took over LeBron was already LeBron, Players recognize their power with NBA, more progressive, Famous, more valuable, Is This Jarrett Payton?,  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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The Smirnoff Company, New York, New York. Mike, Roy, we've been doing this show a long time with the Cody family, and I don't know if you guys have noticed all of the ways that Chris is becoming his father. There are many. I previously thought that Billy Gill was the champion dynasty for all times of being on our show and making the joke that the least number of people would get. Chris Cody, lobbing to end the last segment to his father, the name of their brother's fantasy league team, Michael's Chickens. Him doing that and making his dad howl and no one else in the room except me understand

because I happen to know, but give me the names of all of the teams. Give me all of the names of all of the teams. You guys confounded with a joke just for each other, everyone else who has known you for 20 years. I thought he would keep going with it. That was me like trying to keep the ship going there. Like, I'll just throw him something

and he'll run with that. That is you not knowing your father's self involvement very well. That is you not producing your narcissist father's show very well. Well, the segment ended with you saying Mike's chicken. Okay. No, it was you laughing at that.

That's how it ended with a joke. So we're ending a joke that is actively alienating everyone in our audience That's the closing joke is just you and your son laughing about something and I couldn't even stay in character Because Billy would have appreciated yet. He got it, too. Yeah people know about the PFPI team What are the names of the species Ferraris? Everybody knows name the teams. What are the team? Okay? Dick's rough riders the champs this year, right? Yes Dick, huh? Mom's maniacs

Christie's Ferraris for Ferraris. Are you looking at a list? Do you not know this off top? Yeah, I'm thinking Christie's Ferraris Mike's chickens Chris's critters Tati's llamas Tati's llamas Where she's great. Just your ass. I just like llama of course great most people go the same letter And of course the legendary Greg's Lobos

No bows. Thank you. We're just gonna let dicks rough riders go I Mean what do you mean? What does that mean? Okay, I guess we are it's annoying how well he does every year. He just picks favorites. It's obnoxious Then why don't you win every year? I I want to get to other things, but I also want to recreate if you would Greg I've not told you I want to do this Would you do me the favor? I don't know if I'm gonna be able to execute this correctly But would you please do me the favor of getting up coming and sitting down in the chair and as you sit down in the chair

Do the same thing you just did privately that you said as you sat down with the sound that you sat down with can you do? All of that again. Just sit down in the chair. I know this is dangerous What did I say what you always say when what you all you make a sound just like you go bread when you burp yeah sounds like red some say so I'm not actually saying well, but you said when you sit down. You sat down on because if he doesn't know what it is you say ass wipe as a groaning sound as you sit down and you don't even know that you do it you don't even remember do for me what it

is that you just did it just showed me what sits in that seat next to me every day. It's got to be organic, you know I mean, I'm not really saying ass wipe all those are you are saying You're saying you're clearly sitting down with an old man's groan that also is accompanied by the word ass Why they call them flushable not organic by the way, huh? Is this like a dog like a dog doesn't say bark but it sounds like a barker no he says sounds like a wolf maybe he's just making a noise it sounds like exactly he's been doing it for years no he's saying he's saying are you sure yes I'm saying maybe it's bass wipe you know that bass swipe yeah that's right you know I mean it's bass wipe. You know, bass wipe.

Yeah, bass wipe. You know, I mean, there's no explaining it. I mean, you know, it's just a peccadillo. Body's a weird thing. Yeah, it is, but Billy makes a great point. When a dog barks, it's not saying the word bark. It's not saying ruff ruff like R-U-F-F. And if the dog's in Spain, it doesn't say ladra. Yes, well put. Dogs speak dog.

You know, I speak me. That's all it is. When, and I'm sorry that I started there with any of it. I apologize. And you know it. And you know it. I apologize to the audience that my cohost is running out of gas.

Could be speaking up dog. I wanna play the game that ESPN has stolen from Billy. Damn, I almost had him. For me? Perk up, perk down with Kendrick Perkins. Wow. They stole that from Billy Gill. But I wanted to ask you,

based on the events of the weekend, based on Kevin Durant saying three years ago, NBA fans don't like anything about the NBA and it's weird. And now he's saying fans can play about anything. The only thing they care about is playoffs, trades, deadlines, freight free agency and player beef. To me, it is very interesting to see what that league has now birthed at the end of the players getting some of this power out from under the discipline of overlord coach will tell you what to do and you will play all the games and you will do eight hour practices

and you will be tougher and you will just do as the coach says to see that sports ratings Overrun in 15 years by people objecting to the players don't care enough for the coverage of the all-star game to be only complaints about the all-star game that it's not that is a content vehicle the all-star game that used to exist as a place where Magic Johnson would come back from the the stigma and the and the fear of the lack of knowledge around HIV virus and to turn that what Magic Johnson and Isaiah Thomas and Michael Jordan once did for the respect of that sport to what it was this weekend of that sport to what it was this weekend where it's you know it's Zo's summer groove or it's you know Rockin Jock or it's you might as well play the

games on trampolines like you're not you're not doing anything and I'm not talking I'm not here I'm really not like I know this is just the easiest thing in the world to complain about this game but I also think it's one of the lamest things in sports coverage that we dine on the content of complaining about an exhibition because there's nothing else to go going on and the sports machines got a feet on something this week like a bunch of people are taking vacations but they're a bunch of two-hour shows in this case three and a half hours you gotta find things to talk about and it's a lot easier to complain about kevin durant than it is

to talk about the score thirty thousand points the other day in the numbers don't mean anything in that sport and kevin durant is one of the great scores of all time and we're going to cover more what he says about this then we covered the thirty thousand points because it's easier uh... i i will say, look, sports is plagued by an assortment of topics that it's easier to talk about, sports content is. That's why we gravitate toward the blame and the criticism.

It's why I'm guessing outside of Canada, you will hear more complaints today as people return from work all over your television still complaining about basketball more than celebrating hockey which is strange you would say no but it's it's what's happened the last fifteen years when you make the basketball players start when what you're selling instead of team is stardom when their basketball players that are more famous than football players by a lot jimmy butler you know a lot more Jefferson even though Justin Jefferson is better or what he does than Jimmy Butler is like And it's because we feed on give me drama. Give me beef. Give me transaction

Give me soap opera and for 15 years. This is the end result LeBron shows up for the last game in casual gear because I'll show you my good stuff at the end. I'll punctuate this Hollywood style. I'm not doing this silver the way you want me to. You work for me now. I don't work for you anymore. Like I'm in charge of the Lakers. I'm your star economy for 20 years.

I'll dress how I want, when I want, where I want. You should be happy I'm showing up at your game at all and he's earned that, no one's ever earned it more and everyone's gonna buck on it. Like because they want to care about the romanticism of these guys care as much about you do as you do at the end of this game he wants to win but it wasn't that long ago that he cared about winning at the end of the game. Like the All-Star game does have those moments when Kobe wants to match up. Like when, when you, when you mourn Kobe Bryant, you're also mourning the death of somebody who at the end of his career was caring in a way that was unreasonable

compared to all of his peers and people loved him for it, even though he could be a bleep hole, they filed it under competitive winner, needed to be doing that. Why? Cause you never questioned how much he cared. Not about, you could question a thousand other things, but you never had any questions about whether he cared

about basketball more than you did. Well, if they go with the one-on-one stuff, it's only gonna take one or two people to care deeply about it, to raise the compete level for the entire event. Hockey doesn't have that problem because hockey players are different, but they did with their All-Star game,

but they found a way around it. The players collectively wanted to represent their country, and they're showing with their effort how badly they want this concept to work. I'm not really sure what the NBA players want, except time off. Time off. The most competitive part of NBA All-Star Weekend

was between a baseball player and a football player. Jerry Rice and Barry Bonds at center court. Did you see this? It was intense. Are we cool? Are we cool? We okay. Yeah, we all right.

We okay. Okay, all right, well, Barry, let's start with you. We know you're a heavy hitter, but when you look at your group, do you feel like you have home run plays on this team? I'm a hometown boy. We just rented him. The smack talk? We borrowed Jerry. He's not from the Bay Area. I'm from the Bay Area. We gonna win.

You got a response to that? What are you talking about? So how many rings do you have? Wow. How many rings do you have? Wow. How many rings do you have? I have two divorce rings. Oh no he didn't. Okay. Yeah, took a turn at the end. Glad we could laugh.

I got a new wife now. I think that one of the things that gets lost in sports coverage today Cody, because it is loud, because it is argumentative. This part's real simple. People tune in to sports to feel something and joy is among those things and I can't tell you how disrespectful it feels to the

customer that in basketball more than in other sports because of tropes because of stereotypes because of things that have actually happened because load management is important because honest to God it is Insane what we're putting Basketball players and baseball players through physically many years ago We probably should have been doing it kinder to the human body, but the way we did it then makes it so that all of today's players are soft or some version of soft compared to the past, but all of them are also protecting the economy of their bodies, which feeds, like

legitimately feeds families and have been empowered to do so in a way that tatters the Constructive discipline that you need in team sports So a rastrepos not learning young when NIL money's involved that yeah This is business and it's not about your friendships anymore, right? Like it's about dollars and you're messing with people's economies and Adam Silver's begging LeBron James to play and he won't even dress and it's like that's where that's LeBron's been running the league for 20 years I need like I sort of need people to understand that Adam Silver's the administrative assistant over there They've changed the all-star game for LeBron LeBron wants time off at the halfway point

So LeBron wants his players to get more rest and to not have their salaries capped because LeBron is still in that sport underpaid, still. I need to see who sat out of this flag football game for the NFL, because we got to rip them. I need to see MLB All-Star game, who sat out. Because we don't like, we're looking at this NHL thing, which is the outlier. Nobody acts like this during these types of competitions. And we're like holding this NHL thing, which is the outlier, nobody acts like this

during these type of competitions, and we're like holding this against LeBron. I don't know, like it's supposed to be fun these weekends. I don't understand like why we're getting so serious with LeBron over this. It's this strange juxtaposition of expectations, right? Like no one was paying attention to the NHL All-Star game a few years ago,

and they came up with an incredible concept that only works for their league, given what the diversity of where people that only works for their league given what the diversity of where people come from is within their league. But we've seen things like the world baseball classic work and be the most unbelievable atmospheres ever. Not something that necessarily works for an MLB All-Star game. I think it does. Yeah, but the tradition is still built within it.

Imagine you do a final four of the WBC at the All-Star break. I think that cooks. Sure, but the problem is the same one that NBA has, which is none of, they're not going to be bringing in guys who are going to throw, Sandy Alcantara is not going to throw nine innings in a All-Star game in the middle of the season when the trade deadline is coming up a couple of weeks later. A guy just has been traded to, you know, a new team in the NBA. It's going to be a different conversation about what they do. But I just think that the reason we're going extra hard on the NBA All-Star weekend is because we're juxtaposing it with this perfect new moment that was created

because of geopolitical things, combining with a really awesome job by the NHL. But I just think that we're really taking this to an extreme with what's going on with the NBA when that product is like the basketball that did happen. They did a bad job in terms of presentation. The basketball this year was actually superior to what we've seen in years past. There's an understanding that when the playoffs come, the fans are going to tune in again in the NBA, the level of play is going to be intense and passionate.

It's just different than the regular. I don't, baseball, basketball, and even hockey have too many regular season games. But I have said that, I've said this a number of times, you've heard me say it, perception is not reality. Perception is perception But what is reality is that the perception being talked about on every sports show in America today is Noticing the differences between both of those all-star games one in which you've got people caring so much The other not at all and you've just never seen it play out like that before the same weekend same time

Like this is not something that that has ever happened before in my in my recalling of the doing of this I think the major story I did not watch NBA all-star weekend I think that the storylines that I have seen was McClung won the dunk contest again. Who's a D league guy You had something with mr. Beast I don't know what he was doing, but people were upset about that and thought that that was weird. Damien Liller lost some contest to a fan

and MrBeast was there handing out money and people were like, why is MrBeast here? This is kind of like a weird swing. Chris Paul decided to try to cheat in a contest and then he got disqualified for trying to cheat in the contest. And then LeBron decided five minutes before the game that he wasn't gonna play

and then there's three teams or two teams And then they only have a certain number of guys and now LeBron's team is down to seven guys instead of eight guys And then that's like the major storyline for someone who didn't consume it Those were all the storylines I saw and none of them were like wow. This is a celebration of the sport This was such a great weekend. Look at these moments. It was all just kind of like weird things that were going on Look, you're talking about things that permeate the sport. When you say Sandy's not gonna throw nine innings during a WBC, Sandy's rarely gonna throw nine innings

during a regular season game. How you do anything is how you do everything. And baseball and basketball have been really on the load management train for several years, and the analytics train, and it's kind of altered the sport. The player empowerment is different. Those are two really strong unions compared to what they have in the NHL.

Look, the NHL is not puppy dogs and ice cream. The NHL has got a ton of problems. But one thing that you don't have to worry about is effort when it comes to the regular season and when something matters to these players like Canada USA did, you're going to see a guy like Charlie McEvoy, who, you wanna guess when Matthew Kachuck's next Panther game is? Matthew Kachuck is playing in this game, he's told everybody, he's playing this game

on Thursday night, his next game is Saturday. The Panthers play on Saturday. That is Matthew Kachuck's all-star break. Charlie McEvoy lays this hit on Connor McDavid, it's just been announced, reported by Elliot Friedman. He's out on Thursday because he has an infection from an injury that he sustained in this game in which he hit Connor McDavid,

damn near harder than you've ever seen on open ice. So there's just a different way, a different makeup of a hockey player. I'm not saying they're ever gonna be hockey players, but we have been in positions in those sports before with their exhibition games where they've cared. How many of you are going to put in this effort on your company retreat? That's I guess the question that I would have, right? Is these All-Star weekends are company retreats? That's all it is, and you have a labor class in the NHL that, like Mike mentioned, doesn't have

the same sort of representation from their players association. They don't make nearly as much money as these players in MLB or in the NBA, and so those guys are protecting their money because they, at the spaces that their leagues are, have already earned that. In 20 years, if the NHL continues at the rate that it's going and continues to gain popularity,

I can promise you, I don't care what we say these guys are built like I will promise guys I get out of this all-star weekend to is happen to know and with certainty Is where does that rank with if Matthew Kachuck was making 49 million dollars instead of 11? We'd be having a different conversation. We are good. We are getting somewhere now with this. Four nation competitions, every sport. NFL, who are we playing against? That would be great. What are the four nations for the NBA tournament? It would be epic to watch.

What are the four nations for the NBA tournament? How funny that would be to watch. Well, whoever it is Jovic wants to play with. Spain, Germany. Who else? I'm talking about football. So just the Olympics again. I'm talking about NFL boys.

Okay, and how does that one go? NFL is a terrible idea. It would be amazing. It would not it would not be me It would not imagine. No, it would not be amazing. I like the US imagine the Sweden right tackle trying to block No, it would not be good. It would last five minutes. You cannot Okay, so four or five minutes is all my god, that would be great I I want to play some sound here because Kevin Durant is right that we do like the beef, right? If you're gonna make them stars if you're gonna make them personalities hockey doesn't really have the advantage of that Okay, a lot of these guys doing the sport in their second language

A lot of these guys as interviews boring on purpose like boring. There's a hockey mentality They don't do a great job of selling their sport with their talking, right? It's not a lot of effervescent personalities that you get in hockey. They do their talking on the ice, Dan. That is correct. That's another reason why Kachuk stands out.

Matthew Kachuk, good interview. That is right, but when you're looking at what it is that's happening in basketball, and you've got people fighting with each other and Draymond Green is saying that the game is very boring now, that everybody's running around. Like this is, it's an unusual thing, right? I think Tim Anderson with the White Sox

got into a lot of trouble with all of Chicago as like the only black baseball player on the team or one of the few by saying baseball's boring when he's playing it. He said that on our show. That's right. And he got into trouble and the White Tucks never forgave us. And it like it harmed Tim Anderson's career. Baseball never forgave us actually.

Yes. That fight. Yeah, that too. It was never the same. He had that moment at Field of Dreams. That was really cool. That was cool. That was great.

But he also kind of sucked it. He got that fight and punched in the face. That was cool. That was great. Yeah, but he also kind of sucked He got that fight in the face. That did happen to Tim Anderson. He didn't pan out with the Marlins and when he got into a fight We will show that fight that ended what was his career publicly taking that beating but When Oscar Robertson hears Draymond Green say of the sport that they both Ostensibly ostensibly love it's boring here's his report well i'm dreamers is so much in the room kids with the money

the thing that you know people this is what i mean you know i mean one guy can say this the one that i said that the game is against what it is people people like the game of the dot and i think people enjoy the game special to take away and if you look at the basketball, it might be boring him because if he's not passing the ball to Curry,

what is he doing? I agree, triple single is a shot. Not to single that out because I think he knows how to play basketball, but he's passed his ball to Curry more than anyone I've ever seen in basketball. All right, cut that up. It means a lot. So you know.

Was that Hank Azaria? Cut that up, this sniveling reporter saying his agreement to the Big O in a way that was too slurpy and uncomfortable and just had a lot of drool in it and just an agreement that was overtly agreeable. Cut that up so that we can just hear the reporter distracting us in the middle of that. Just over, over loving Oscar Robertson.

I know this is an exhaustive conversation. And it's fixing basketball is now approaching, like I feel like we've almost been doing it as long as we've been doing the fixing baseball shows. But baseball kind of finally got around to fixing it and they had a great Dream World Series and hopefully that tree continues to bear fruit but they have to do something about this. Well we're so far beyond the tipping point on needing... Adam Silver is a disaster. But Mike he's a disaster. He's gone from,

he has gone... This is what happens though. He's gone from, he has gone, this is what happens though. He has gone from the best commissioner in sports, most innovative to getting left behind by the power among the players, at least in part, because how do I stay young? Get me Mr. Beast. Just get me Mr. Beast.

Put him on the court, throw him on, look, how, look, have you guys not seen, this is, it is hard to evolve. I believe that Kanye West, as one example, has seen that Kendrick Lamar has passed him as the artist Kanye wishes that he were back when he was at the top of hip hop, running the ego game, and now he just stoops to,

my wife is naked and going pro Hitler. They split up, there may be ex-wife soon, Dan. If you cut up. The reports are conflicting. Yeah, there's a lot of people betting on the fact that they may get divorced before April. You know he doesn't have a prenup? That's crazy. If only there was a song that warned him.

What do you get, like, isn't he like in a massive debt? If you get divorced and your spouse is in incredible debt, do you take on half of the debt? I'm not sure. I mean, he keeps putting out slips that says he's a billionaire again. Yeah. But I don't really listen to much of what he says anymore.

My point is that Adam Silver has gone from the top of the game to how do I keep up with the young people? My employees aren't cooperating. It didn't necessarily happen quick, but I'm old enough to remember when Adam Silver was called by this show and by others. Consensus, the best commissioner in sports.

Now is he the worst? Like, is he the worst? But I would say to you, if you're looking at a, man. So on Kaepernick, politics came to sports here, when you're talking about we're coming off of the Kendrick Lamar halftime show that's that the the tension that that sport had around its racism births entertainment that's allowed to be at the center of the spectacle and make its own artistic noise but that's where it's going to be

relative relegated to they're gonna get in racism out of the end zone they're gonna distract you with that. What's happening in that league right now with its black employees is Adam Silver became the most popular progressive commissioner when he got rid of the racist. Like that's when it happened. It's Donald Sterling.

Oh look, a leader just got rid of an owner. The owners are untouchable. It's not because Adam Silver had any real power. It's because all the other owners wanted him gone and then had their excuse. And Adam Silver becomes, oh, look, David Stern's progressive learner rises to the top of sports.

What leadership. And now look, I think it's relevant that I'm telling you that none of these players wanted to play in the bubble during the pandemic, because America was in crisis. There was a race war that was being promised and they didn't want to spend the time descending from Civil Rights League, descending from Bill Russell and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.

They didn't feel like entertaining us. They didn't feel like working for the owners anymore. They also didn't want to be locked in a place for over a month without being able to go out. Yeah, and the reported details was a lot of that was coming from Kyrie and they were dealing with all sorts of Kyrie stuff. Did he take money from the Mr. Beast thing?

Like there's angles where it looks like he just went and took money. No he did and then Durant took it from him. Kyrie had it. Was that real money? Like that's a crazy prop and also why didn't more people just say, you know what? This is going to be written off by someone. This is free money sitting up.

No one's going to inventory this after the fact, right? I will say one place where Adam Silver probably did a good job and it came off of a bad job initially was, given everything that's been in the news over the last two years in the Middle East, the Kyrie thing kind of quieted down. Like, they finally got a grip of that situation. That's a pretty thankless job, especially with how messy that it got. I know errors are impossible to compare, but some of the guys that are in the league, especially some of the guys that are most known, LeBron, for example, Kevin Durant, they were around when David Stern was

around. I see a lot of these things happening, a lot of these problems happening. It's not like some of these things weren't around when Stern was, but I just have a hard time wrapping my head around like this, this would definitely feel different if David Stern was in charge. He was such a cult of personality that it just like they, the players wouldn't have gotten so much power to the point that if Adam Silver, which we what we all assume goes to the locker rooms, all right guys, let's let's try to go to give America a good show and LeBron's like nope no I'm good. I just don't see that happening to David Cern. I feel like

David Cern commands a little bit more respect. Different era though, different players. I know it's hard to shop. Also and different America like different public America there's some stuff here man look man don't ignore it please don't ignore that this would have all played out differently in Canada if it had been our basketball team up there. Right league, right place, right time. No, it's not about whether or not we're booed, it's whether or not the players embrace the villainy.

The players right now, if we're taking a straw poll of the players on the American hockey team, I would think that straw poll leans towards some more people supporting the present administration than it would be if you had sent the NBA All-Stars up to Canada. And when they're getting booed, how do they handle the national anthem? How does all of this work where right now you have like, you know, highlight clips to Fortunate Son by CCR being put out by the White House. You're not having the same sort of thing being done if you have these NBA players, not to sound like Dan,

but there is some stuff here. Look, I genuinely think hockey players care less about politics. I understand what we're doing demographically, but you gotta keep in mind, the league is mostly Canadian. I don't know. I've seen some guys that's- what do you think about Canada's politics? Like hockey is actually a lot more progressive

than it lets on. Look at what Matthew Kachuck said when the rainbow tape situation popped up. So I think I understand where you're coming from there a little bit, but also there are bad faith aggregators. You have a nation convinced because of some of these aggregate sites like NWOAKNESS and even government websites, oh, this is a response.

You boo our anthem, this is what happens. Man, this was so predetermined. It had nothing to do with the anthem. It had everything to do with the first best on best matchup between the US and Canada in 11 years. I'm not saying the fights have anything to do with it, but I imagine there might be conversations being had about hey, how do you feel about this happening

while you're out there? And those responses from what we saw literally in 2020 and on, like those responses from the NBA are gonna be different than what you get from the NHL. It's just right place, right time. Do you know? I don't. I'm not talking about that.

There hasn't been a news briefing. But the ignoring of it is the same thing. Like, that's kind of the point. I'm not saying you need to cape up for it, as opposed to what would have been an abject criticism. And there's a difference there in the way that we respond as fans as well. I'm sure the players would have responded differently too.

It seems like everyone's taking off in Matthew's lead, which is like, we're just not going to talk about this. We understand that this is not about us. This is about a singular person. I know, I felt the emotion. I didn't like hearing it. As no matter how bad things get between the two countries, I could never see me booing another anthem

because of one person. Probably gonna happen Thursday. But I get it. I totally get it. I'll boo the shit out of an anthem. Any anthem, I don't care what it is. Coming up against my team, I'll boo you. I don't care.

I've never thought about it before. Oh, I would boo the hell out of any anthem. If I was there this Thursday. Those going against my team's anthem. If I was. Without a doubt in my mind. What's wrong with you people? Our national anthem, I would boo the hell out of any anthem. If I was there, this first... That's going as my team's anthem. If I was... Without a doubt in my mind. What's wrong with you people? Our national anthem?

You would boo any anthem? Well, it depends. It depends who's playing and what side I'm rooting for. If it's the enemy side, I'm booing it. I don't care. I'll boo anything if it's the enemy. After being in that arena?

I'm not gonna go after a period and go start high-fiving people and say, hey, nice, you know, beer, whatever, hey. You know what I mean? Like, good period. No, this is war. Sorry, Chris, go ahead. But any anthem you would boo,

including if you were for some reason, if you were rooting for a Marlin who played on the Dominican Republic, or the Dominican Republic was playing in the world baseball classic against the United States. Well, I'm not Dominican, so it's different. Okay, so thank you. You want me, Cuba?

I don't, who would, what circumstance would you root against the national, America's national anthem? Hoo. It's a good question. One I wasn't prepared for. I'll get back to you. We have someone, thank you for all the help, Billy. Excellent work, as always.

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No waiting, no wondering, no worries. Now this is taxes. Get an expert now on TurboTax.com. Only available with TurboTax live full service. Real-time updates only in iOS mobile app. See guarantee details at TurboTax.com slash guarantees. Don Lebatard. I took my son to the barbershop, get a haircut, and my man gave out some limp dap. Oh no. Damn, damn, damn. Stugats.

I disowned him. I threw them right under the bus. I was like, whose kid is that out here dissing out limp dap? This is the Don LeBathur Show with the Stugats. ["DON LEBATHUR SHOW"] Dominique Foxworth is there. I'm gonna go ahead and get started. I'm gonna go ahead and get started. I'm gonna go ahead and get started. I'm gonna go ahead and get started. I'm gonna go ahead and get started. I'm gonna go ahead and get started. I'm gonna go ahead and get started.

I'm gonna go ahead and get started. I'm gonna go ahead and get started. I'm gonna go ahead and get started. I'm gonna go ahead and get started. I'm gonna go ahead and get started. I'm gonna go ahead and get started. I'm gonna go ahead and get started. to what? Alright, hold on a second. We've gotta unmute you real quick. Okay, we'll get that right in a second. Maybe he's doing a mime bit.

No? We'll get that in a second. We'll get that right in a second. You were saying, Billy, did you wanna continue or you're done? I'm thinking of circumstances. You mentioned the Cuban one. That one's tricky because then there's the whole,

you know, the Cuban team, who are they playing for? Because they're just men, but are they playing for the government and the regime? I don't know who I would boo for in that situation. I was quite conflicted at the World Baseball Classic when Cuba came to town, I'll be honest with you. I've never thought about booing an anthem before, but the way I felt with Canada doing it, if I was in that building on Thursday,

and I heard booing, I mean, I'm not gonna, it's tit for tat. Like you did to me. I do it to you really That is not turn the other cheek that is not take the high road that is not so we're at war Dan like this Yeah many wars War with Canada, I don't know but we're in it. What are we gonna do? Huh? Are you not paying attention? You ever look around and say, how did I find myself here?

I don't know, but I'm not gonna, I can't just pontificate on why I'm here now. I just gotta act, fight or flight, and it's time to fight. I've never been so- When it's the Four Nations Tournament, it is time to fight. Just Google Trudeau microphone on. I didn't like being called a Yankee. Didn't he step down?

Yeah, but not immediately. You guys think that what our country is presently doing doesn't deserve to get booed? What? Yeah, no, it does. Are you going to root for Canada in the Four Nations tournament? There were plenty of Canadians around us who were respectful

and didn't boo it, because they would find out real quick. It's kind of like when someone attacks Stugats. Fafo, am I right? No, that's my Stugats. You can't say that. I can say that. You don't boo an anthem, right? Oh, you would. Is it hockey?

Oh, is it hockey? If you were with us, you would want to boo Canada's anthem if you were there with us this past weekend. You would want to, but you would think better of it. Well, if they booed my anthem, I'd probably boo their anthem. See? They started it. Canada started it.

Again, in Montreal, you would do that. Look at what Chris Cody learned. There it is ladies and gentlemen. That is generations of Cody wisdom right there. Pass down the family right there. It's hard to boo their anthem too. It slaps. Dominique has now returned presumably

with functioning sound. You have any thoughts on what it is you just heard? So first of all, the sound issue was completely on my my side so don't blame anybody, don't fire anybody. I would take full responsibility your crack team and the video room and in the shipping container did an outstanding job. But the thing that I wanted to address was the conversation that we're having about like the commissioners and the league. I think we often do this and I think I heard Bill Simmons doing it and a lot of people doing it saying that things would be different if David Stern was in

office but I think we fail to understand how different the circumstances are and were. And like when David Stern ran the league they were growing like essentially a startup and guys were making less than a million dollars on average. And I think the power dynamics in the league shifted in a way that you can no longer be the iron-fisted commissioner that I think people wish that we had. So I'm not arguing that Adam Silver has done a fantastic job. I just think that the strategy that would have to... he would have had to have taken was just gonna be different.

And if David Stern were still the commissioner of the league, I'm not sure that the iron fist that we think would have had guys fall in line would have worked when guys are making a hundred million from Nike when they step into the league. And so when Adam Silver took over, and I think we're going to dive into this on my show later, but when Adam Silver took over, like LeBron James was already LeBron James. So I'm not sure that things would be different. I guess that's my only point. No it's and it's a good point because we're romanticizing for a day there will never be again like that's not that once you've gotten to this point on Jimmy Butler on Jimmy Butler when the players realize that

that's the power that they have like we will never go back to that day. Dominique correct me if I'm wrong didn't the NFL kind of address this issue? And you don't have wayward voices. There's pretty much everyone's on board with politics equals bad for the growth of our sport. Yeah, I think the NFL and NBA are very different in the way that they function. And like, I think the players in NFL and the players in NBA fall in different places politically, politically, and also fall in different places in, and also fall in different places in their willingness to fall in line. I think one thing we've learned about basketball players,

and it's not, I think sometimes these things come off as criticisms, but the players themselves became the franchises a while ago. Like this is the culmination, the process that started when the league started promoting Bird and Magic, is now we're at the point where we have LeBron fans, not Heat fans or not Cav fans. And I think there are still some local fan bases that matter, but we all recognize that the players are why we tune in. And as much as we love quarterbacks,

we'll tune in for a defensive battle. We'll tune in when the promo picture is TJ Watt versus Miles Garrett. I'm watching that and it doesn't. And so I think the players recognize that they do not have that same amount of sway. And so with the NBA players being generally, I think probably more progressive than in the NFL players and being definitely more famous, more valuable and have more influence, I think arguing that

you could run the same playbook that the NFL has run and thinking it will work in the NBA is not true. I think they are one of the groups, the entities that, while we call them all partners, that actually are closer to partners with the league and need to be treated as such. And getting them on board is a lot different than telling them what to do. How do you fix it, though, if you're at the NBA, right?

Cause like it seems like they're just too big, right? Like the players are just too powerful and successful. You're getting paid $50 million. Yeah, I'm gonna sit out this exhibition cause why am I gonna put my future earnings at risk, right? But like at the same time, you do turn off fans where it's like, okay, well you don't take this seriously. I'm not gonna watch. You don't take the regular season seriously. I'm not gonna watch. I'll come around on the playoffs and then the playoffs come where it's like, okay, well you don't take this seriously, I'm not gonna watch.

You don't take the regular season seriously, I'm not gonna watch. I'll come around on the playoffs and the playoffs come and you're like, I'm not really invested in this because I haven't been watching all year. So then the ratings continue to go down, but seemingly like TV contracts always go up, right?

So it's only gonna continue to have this divide and theoretically get worse for players are gonna be making more and more money, getting more and more powerful, and the league is gonna have less and less control. So how do you save this? So I think that's the interesting part is it's a super challenging problem.

So I think that what they started to do where they opened up opportunity for the players to be investors in the teams, I think it's just an incentive. It's like a basic economist, and I know Dan loves to talk about. It's like a basic economist, and I know Dan loves to talk about economies, but like a basic economist argument is you want to align the interests of the people with the most power

with that of the league. And so I think it's very difficult to do in this situation. In the past, it was clear where the interests were lined up. Like the guys were not making a lot of money. So growing the league and increasing the value of the league would make it so guys in the 90s and the early 2000s would make more money. We're at a situation now where guys walk into the league making a ton of money from the league and also from their shoe partners and all those things. So I think that's the biggest challenge is

ensuring that their interests are aligned with the interests of the league in the way that partners would. And I think the NFL is different and that those players are a lot more like employees than, um, the basketball players are. And employees who know that their careers are going to be short and know that they have a short period of time to make money and know that they are eminently replaceable behave a lot differently than guys who are like, look, you've scoured the entire globe to find someone half as good as me. You're not gonna tell me what to do.

You're just not going to do it. And so you need them to be internally aligned with your interests, and that's a hard thing to pull off, which is why when people talk trash about how terrible all our commissioners are, I'm like, job's pretty damn hard, pretty hard. Like, go into a room. I'm sorry. I'm just, no, I just gotta stop you because Chris and Greg are arguing about whether Greg should say to you, is this Jared Payton? They're

arguing about it and I can't get it. Oh boy. Jared Payton's next!