The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - Hour 1: The Bad Faith Argument

Episode Date: December 11, 2025

"You guys remember the plot to Superman 3?" Amin accidentally helped the Oklahoma City Thunder invent the "we'll take your shitburger contract for a pick" strategy, which has led to a dominance so great that Dan's convinced it's bad for the sport. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is the Dan Levitar show with the Stucats podcast. This episode of the Dan Levitar show is presented by Draft Kings. Draft Kings, the crown is yours. So this is a story from Dan Wolkin and Yahoo Sports after learning of Notre Dame's memorandum of understanding that grants the Irish preferential playoff access starting next year. Athletic directors in other leagues are threatening to. freeze Notre Dame out of future schedules. If you're not familiar with the contract language, I assume this is because Notre Dame is an independent

and they don't have some of the deal terms that the conferences have. Notre Dame is guaranteed that what happened to them this year will not happen to them next year if they are in the top 12. And what I just realized, I don't know if you guys realized it. I don't know if Pablo realizes this in the storm of internet,

noise that he's presently in. You guys do realize that in the argument of Pablo Torre versus Nick Wright, Pablo Torre is Notre Dame. He's right, but he's going to look and sound like he's wrong. Thanks. That's what's happening here, though. It's the thing, it's the self-righteousness. It's the sanctimony. It's you are, you are, you are, but you are journalistically pure and no one wants to hear it. One thing we are not talking about, and we should be. I'm going to be haunted by that for a long time, aren't I? I worry. Dominique had a worse one during that hour that I'm sure a lot of people noticed.

See if you guys can find about 10 minutes from the end of the segment. My dear friend, Dominique absolutely stumbled through something that was twice as long as that. Judas Foxworth. I don't want to go any more in this show without talking about something that's happening in basketball that simply can't get enough attention. attention and the droning excellence. This is something that Roger Federer suffered from. Pete Sampras suffered from. We want our sports teams to be great. We want to see our athletes be great, but not too great, not too great, not so great that we can't talk about drama and

storylines because the Oklahoma City Thunder defending champions have just put together a 25 game stretch that has never been seen in the history of basketball. Not at the beginning of a season. at any point during a regular season. The Miami, he did win 27 straight games. They did not do it this dominantly. OKC lost a game to Portland, has not lost any others. They beat Phoenix. Phoenix is a good team.

They beat Phoenix last night by 49 points. They're beating everybody by a point differential that makes this the most unprecedented dominant stretch in the history of basketball. I mean, I don't think it's good for the sport. It's one thing to have Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen and Dennis Rodman. It's an entirely different thing to have it be a small market team that's interesting only because of its excellence. There's nothing else interesting there.

There's no storylines. There's no drama. There's no any of the noise nonsense that the basketball season feeds off during the regular season. There are no two bigger stories in the sport this year than all the stars are getting injured because the limits. of the human body can't reach the way the game is being played right now. So there's way too much money just injured and not playing. But the team that is playing is way too good. Way too good to talk about.

Way too good to be interested, interesting to the average basketball fan who just enjoys the superficial cotton candy of, give me the dramatic storyline. Dan, this is, well, I look at it as a palate cleanser. Wow, like we could talk about basketball with these guys. And by the way, they're injured too. That's the insane part about this. So did we!

Exactly. They played a game about a week ago or so against Utah were Shea Gilgis Alexander, Isaiah Hartenstein, Alex Caruso, Isaiah Joe, and Lou Dort, all sat. That's a starting lineup. That's a 50-win team starting lineup. They were favorited going into that game by 11.5 points, Dan. They won it by 30. They're amazing no matter who else is out there

I watched that game last night And the only way I can describe it And this is the part where fatherhood comes in handy Because my child plays high school basketball And plays AU basketball And when I was watching that game I said I know exactly what this looks like This looks like in AAU

When you had that one team where everyone has a D1 scholarship And they're playing against a team That's like their church put it together And the idea that they can't bring the ball up the court It's a turnover every single time. Layup, turnover, layup, turnover, layup. And I'm like, oh, my God, I've never seen this in NBA on the NBA level ever. I think they're super interesting.

I do. Like, I don't, yes, we had the 97 Bulls and you had the 2016 Warriors, but they would lose sometimes. I've never seen a team in the NBA in an 82 game schedule. By the way, I'm not looking so stupid for talking about winning 80 games this year. We could circle back to that if you want, Dan. But I've never seen a team. that just doesn't lose.

And think about this, they're in the semifinal now of the NBA. They're going to win the NBA Cup, all right? So we're watching a team that is going to win the NBA Cup, has a real good chance to win the NBA championship, and might win the most games in the history of the NBA regular season. And because the NBA Cup's rather new. Like there's never been a team that has done what Oklahoma City has the chance to do this year. Dan, can I give you a stat?

So Tim Bontem's from ESPN tweeted this out last night. You want to do start of the day? Come on. Come on, now. What are you waiting for? Come on, man. Start of the day, start of the day. Proper toss. This year, start of the day, start of the day, start of the day.

This year, start of the day. Start of the day, start of the day, start of the day. Start of the day, start of the day, start of the day. Dan, the Oklahoma City Thunder have led by at least 20 points for 264 minutes and 17 seconds this season. The Oklahoma City Thunder have trailed for 249 minutes and 53 seconds this season. So to summarize for the simpletons out there, the thunder have led by 20 plus points more than they have trailed by say with me

everyone Big A ahead A point Dan to piggyback off that and obviously they're going to be compared

to the greatest regular season team of all time in the 1516 Warriors they are completely lockstep on pace

with Golden State 24 and 1 through the first 25 games December 12th was the day that Golden State lost their first

game but we're looking at a historic pace if I gave you the over-under handicapped it at 71 wins

Do you go over or under? Yeah, you've got to go over. You have to go over. I know that Zaz and Kendrick Perkins are doing 80 and 2, but I mean, walk me through some of this because I believe that what's happening right now is problematic for the league because when it's Michael Jordan and the Bulls doing it

or when it's the Warriors and Clay Thompson and Steph Curry shooting like no one's ever seen and revolutionizing the sport I can make it interesting I'm going to have a hard time doing it with defense I'm going to have a real hard time making a basketball defense interesting to the average person

I'm going to tell you right now the way they play defense no that's not true they play defense it's fun because it's turnovers a lot of times we talk about great defensive teams it's a lot of it's in the mud they're missing shots like those 04 pistons yeah rough watch it's like arm wrestling a lot of

It's very physical and slow. These guys, because it's so fast-paced because they're turning it over. Live ball turnovers. We're getting out in the fast breaks. We're dunking. There was a point last night where they were like, turn them over, come back hit a three. Turn it over, come back hit a three. They play an interesting fun style of basketball.

I don't think the market thing really matters. I think what matters is when people watch these guys play. It's a fun style. This isn't your Tim Duncan Spurs. This isn't your Chauncy Billups Pistons. These guys are fun to watch, and they're done. dominant and the thing that we know about all sports is the biggest kind of light that calls people under the tent is if you have a dominant nobody can beat them this it's it's rocky four

all over again you see them you know how strong is you can't win that's the thing that brings people in everyone claims they love parity parity is bullshit everyone locally locally loves because like oh my team has a chance but the reality is nationally nationally no one's interesting because like oh so anyone could win or I'll call me when it's important but when you have someone who is so dominant and so ruthlessly dominant what ends up happening is everyone's like either wow can they win 80 games or wow who's going to beat them and by the way guys I have a prediction for everybody you guys ready for this the Oklahoma City Thunder will not win the NBA Cup they're going to lose in the NBA Cup final do you know why I'm saying this no because every game

they played up until this point, counts towards their record. The semifinal game on Saturday, that counts towards their regular season record. But the NBA Cup final is the 83rd game, and the league has determined not only does that not count towards your record, but any stats accumulated in that game do not count to your season stats. So it is the most meaningless game other than winning the NBA Cup and winning $500,000. I think, I think, I think. Dagonal's going to take a dive? I think whoever comes out of the East is going to win the NBA Cup.

You heard it here first, ladies and gentlemen. Can we talk about how banks are still acting like it's 1994, fees on fees on fees. Overdraft fees, monthly fees, probably a breathing near the ATM fee coming soon, which is why Chime feels like someone finally flipped the script. Fee-free, smarter banking that's actually built for you. The person trying to make it through life, not the billionaire who keeps a yacht in every time zone. Chime isn't just another banking app. They've got tools that genuinely help people like MyPay,

where you can get access to up to $500 of your paycheck whenever you need it, or getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit. Open your account in minutes at chime.com slash Dan. And now there's the new Chime card, cashback and credit building with your own money together on one card. No annual fees, no interest, no strengths, and qualifying direct deposits get you 1.5% cash back on eligible purchases. Chime is not just smarter banking.

It is the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are already banking fee free, free today. It just takes a few minutes to sign up. Head to chime.com slash Dan. That's chime.com slash stand. Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank. Bank. Bank, Bank, and my pay line of credit provided by the Bank or Bank NA or Stride Bank N.A. My pay eligibility requirements apply and credit limit ranges $20 to $500. Option. Option.com may have fees or charges. See chime.com slash fees info. Advertised annual percent and yield with Chime Plus status only. Otherwise, 1.000% APY applies. No mean balance required.

Chime card on time payment history may have a positive impact on your credit score. Results may vary. See chime.com for details and applicable terms. Hey folks, it's Mike Ryan. Happy holidays to you and to our tremendous partners of almost 20 years, Miller Light. It's the 50th anniversary of Miller Light. It makes the holidays special. It makes the football game special. It makes family gatherings and friendship time extra special.

I make all those times Miller Time. And during the holidays, most of my favorite memories start the exact same way. I crack open a Miller Light, take a look around in my friends and family, and think, yeah, this was a right call. Whether it's a late night hang after a holiday party or standing around a fire pit with a family, Miller Light just fits. It's a taste you know you can depend on, and it's brewed for flavor with simple ingredients like malted barley, rich balanced toffee notes, and that iconic golden color. And at just 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces, it lets you enjoy the season without weighing you down. Miller Lite, great taste, 96 calories. Go to MillerLight.com slash day and find delivery options near you, or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer.

Tis Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 96 calories, and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. One touchdown can change everything, the crowd, the momentum, the entire game. It never gets sold. Feel the same rush with Draft King Sportsbook and official sports betting partner of the NFL. And Missouri listeners listen up, the Show Me State, baby. Draft King Sportsbook is now live in the Show Me State. New customers download the Draft King's Sportsbook app and use code Dan.

That's code Dan, D-A-N, bet just five bucks and get $200. bucks and bonus bets. If your bet wins in partnership with Draft Kings, the crown is yours. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler. In New York, call 8778-8-Hope-N-Y or text Hope-N-Y-4-667-369. In Connecticut, help is available for problem

gambling, call 888-78-9-77- or visit ccpg.org. Please play responsibly. On behalf of Boot Hill Casinoin Resort in Kansas, pass-through of per-wager tax may apply in Illinois. 21 and over. Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario. Restrictions apply. Bet must win to receive bonus bets which expire in seven days.

Minimum odds required. Four additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dKNG.co slash audio. Limited time offer. Dan Lebertard. Go make the frog here live from Metalog Media Studios here in Miami. Stugats.

The Germans are advancing on France in World War II. This is the Dan Levitar show with the Stugats. And you look at the head of the sphere for O KC and Che Gillis Alexander. He's a very like vintage. player, right? He gets to the mid-range a lot. He's able to get to the cup in this Steph Curry-eyed NBA

where everybody wants to shoot 45-footers. He's like, no, I'm going to get to my spot at the Frito Line extended. I'm going to get to my spot in the corner. I'm going to get to the hoop. I'm going to get fouled. Like, that's what we used to watch in the early 2000s. It's what people have been crying about, like, oh, what happened to the mid-range? Everyone just shoots threes. And I'm like, here

come Cigel. I'm going to bring Pablo in on this because I do believe, Tony, you and Amin really love basketball. I do too. I say Pablo does too. I would say a lot of people in this room love basketball. And so I'm taking a devil's advocate position. This is not my position. I'm taking a devil's advocate position when I say, not only is it not good to win with defense, not only is small market generally rejected, but the other thing that's here is for 15 years, we've been trained

on super teams. It's not one guy. It's not one guy mid-range jumpers. We haven't done that since, dirk. That is not something as a devil's advocate position, Pablo, that I can sell to the person who doesn't love basketball the way Tony and Amin love basketball. I think the real story of the Thunder is that the best run organization in all of sports. And that's not a great fight poster that they have proven that the small market thing can become irrelevant if you're well run enough. I mean, the whole story of like how the Thunder were born. I mean, you know this. The Clippers are responsible for it. The Clippers are responsible for it. The Clippers are responsible. responsible for why the Thunder are going to own the next 10 to 15 years.

The Clippers loving the super team thing. Because they wanted Kauai Leonard and Paul George at the expense of everything, which was the old math. And Sam Presti, who is, in my opinion, simply the most, the sharpest strategist in all of front office. What I mean? What? No, I was going to say, like, it's not the Clippers. Ironically enough, this all started in 2008, I want to say, 2007. with a trade from Phoenix to Oklahoma City,

Kurt Thomas, and two first round picks for absolutely nothing because we needed to get under the luxury tax and Robert Sabre was all over our ass about that. And that trade, one of those picks turned into Sergei Baca and Sir Jabaca turned into Victor Lodipo and that ends up where we are today. Well, I mean, but I mean, Sam Presti did the super team thing. Sam Presti, to your point, the phoenix of it all right like that's fair but san presti did the super team cycle he did the rare

thing where he went through collecting abaca durant westbrook harden and then lost all of them and rebuilt because the clippers said we want to do that thing now we want the superstars and they sent over everything i mean again to say the obvious thing that everybody the NBA is is muttering about the clippers are giving their first rounder to the thunder this season and they might have the number one pick. And that's on top of the five other picks they sent. Right? This is and Shea Gilder's Alexander. I think that was the 4D chess that Sam Presby was playing. As the, he was looking at the landscape of basketball being like, okay, I think the blueprint for the super team, the big three is kind of dead. I want to build this thing another way with

getting smart people and kind of the way that they did it through the draft, the original time with KD, with Russ, with Hardin, with Hibok with all these guys. The blueprint kind of died and Sam Preci was like, I'm in a perfect position to usher in a new blueprint of. of how teams can go going forward. The thing that makes it fascinating too is you look at having this potential dynasty ahead of you and finding a team that's entertaining to watch because you want to see people take them down. The difference between this sport and what's happening in Major League Baseball with the Dodgers is like the Dodgers just go out and sign a closer for $70 million because the previous one

that they signed for $70 million didn't quite work out and their bullpen's not good. The fascinating part here is they just built it and they bilked a bunch of other teams for their draft picks and have been in this position to build something that does have a super team element as well because you have Chet Holmgren and Jalen Williams along with Shea. So you have what is a quasi big three that's just not marketed the same way because you're in Oklahoma City. And you have all of these other pieces around them where Kaysen Wallace can be plus 19 or rather plus 36 and 19 minutes last night. Like that's how dominant this team is from top to bottom. And I think a lot of people will find it interesting to watch them moving forward.

They were the first team with the strategy of, we'll take your shitburger contract, but you have to attach first round pick to it, right? 2007, baby. I think they started that. 2007. I just told you how it started. I just told you. I was in the front office when we did that deal.

I'm like, what are we doing? But it's like, yo, our owner's on our ass. We got to do something. And it was Steve Kerr's first act as a general manager. And later on, he would say, man, Sam Presti really got one over on me. But you know what Sam Presti is, guys? Do you guys remember the plot to Superman 3? he's Richard Pryor and Superman 3.

The idea that we're going to take a fraction. Like everyone wants to rob millions of dollars just like, oh, I'm going to go in and I'm going to steal $100 million. Like, no, just give me a fraction of a penny on every transaction. And over time, it will build into this incredible thing. That's what Sam Presti did. Every time all these space, like, oh, Al Horford, I'll take them. Oh, Kimball Walker, I'll take them.

Chris Paul, I'll take them. All of these deals over and over and over again. Keep getting more picks, more picks and more picks. And Tony, this is the part why I disagree with you. Respectfully. I was going to say disrespectfully. No. I like respectfully.

Respectfully disagree with you because he just rebuilt another big three. It just, what do you do in the meantime? What you do in the meantime is so incredibly important because what he did is says we're going to, you know, try out and draft and develop and all these things. But in the meantime, I'm also adding these picks because they're all cash in hand, basically. But it's homegrown, though. The way the old school method of the big three was I'm going to try and get them from other teams. No, that's, I see, people say that. I'm like, no, the way you build a big three is you get a big three.

Can I draft them? Can I trade for them? Can I sign them? It doesn't matter. No one's like, you know what? My strategy is going to be not to do it. No, we're just out to get them. But keep in mind, right, your Oklahoma City.

So the question of getting a free agent is a lot harder to answer. Sure. So the three ways you can get a superstar, you can't really get a free agent. So that's why it's so impressive, right? What's impressive about a small market team? It's not just that Oklahoma City, until recently, has been the team that's most likely to complain on behalf of small markets whenever there's any NBA issue. It's the fact that they feel rightfully that they're disadvantaged because they can't get one of the three mechanisms to get a superstar to apply to them, which is the free agent. They got to trade and draft.

Okay, so we want to make the Thunder interesting, right? Amin, who says no? The Thunder trade Holmgren and the Clippers pick, which could be number one overall. for Janus. So we talked about this on basketball Illuminati a couple of weeks ago. Basketball Illamani, Basketball, Luminati, Bassball Luminati, basketball Luminati say it three times to keep the third eye open. And the whole concept is if the Thunder were to go after Janus,

it would actually be more of a financial deal than anything else because Holngren and Jalen Williams both have contracts that explode next year because they sign these Big Max extensions in the off season. And Hartenstein and Lou Dort are both entering the last years of their, deal next year. So you would try to organize, orchestrate a deal to avoid paying way too much money, which is what they've avoided over the last couple of years, to too many people. So instead of doing that and having to pay premium for Hartinstein, who is a good player but is replaceable, premium for Lou Dorr, who's a good place, but is replaceable, you pay it to Janus and then

build around that him and Shay Gillis, Alexander, and then probably Jalen Williams. Wow. Now, who would say no, I don't know. I mean, obviously I think Milwaukee would go through the roof over something like that, especially because you're including that pick. Let's put these things on the poll beyond basketball Illuminati. Amin is great for wisdom everywhere, and I really think he dropped a great bit of wisdom that we could commemorate in poll status by putting up the poll question, is the way to get a big three to get a big three at Lebitard show? And also, So is Sam Presti like Richard Pryor in Superman 3, put that on the poll as well? The place that I will say is not a devil's advocate position on saying that this Thunder thing is not good for basketball.

You have to have some close games, guys. You can't have all the games be 30 and 40 points. This is an unprecedented stretch of basketball. No one has ever played 25 regular season games. games with this kind of point differential. Not at the beginning of a season. At any point in all the seasons ever played, there's never been a team winning like this over 25 games.

Dan, I would say yes, except for the fact that last year they were pretty dominant. They were one of the highest margins of victories in NBA history. I think they was second all time. And yet they got to the finals and what did we see? We saw a real competitive seven game series. So all of this stuff said, oh, y'all, it's a. the same thing we did with the Warriors in 2016. You say that we did see a competitive seven game series,

but in that game seven, what ends up happening with the Thunder a lot is somebody got hurt. They went by double digits. Like, they don't play. Damn, come on. You're not good faith arguing now. You've got to have some good faith.

Don't give me that bad faith. What do you mean I'm not good faith arguing? You're not a good faith arguing. That's not a good faith. That's not a good faith. That's not a good faith. You don't know what you're doing. Haskell Seahawks was great at series.

Hallibur was electric. Best player got hurt. Guys, it's important. Guys, that's the most vulnerable that team's going to be. I would have loved to see them have to face Denver who had already done it. They had never done it before. Intense moment. That was a young team.

Last year was the year to get OKC. This year ain't the year to get OKC. They now know they can do it. This team's better than that team. Yeah, but they were going up against T.J. McConnell in that one one game for, the championship. So it does matter. It did matter that it went seven. It was a compelling series. It was a good series. And then you build to the game seven crescendo and you realize, well, T.J. McConnell's not going to do it. Don Lebertard. You know how these late season games are?

We don't know. It's a big game for the Knicks. We have absolutely no idea how Boston will play. I don't know who they'll play, who they won't play. Stugats. Okay. All right. That's fine. That's an excellent promotion. You know, I love that. That's great. That's it. That's perfect advertising for the national game on TV. I was going to watch. I was not going to watch. Holy shit, that was a shitty sales job. This is the Dan Lebatar show with the Stugats.

And by the way, the last two champions, I think we can all sit here and say with pretty much certainty. man if y'all had to play that big fellow in Denver maybe it would have been different like now hey kudos to the Timberwolves who beat Denver last year and kudos to whoever beat Denver two years ago but my mind escapes me right now but the point is like

Minnesota they beat them two years in a row they didn't beat them two years in a whole or was it last it doesn't matter what point my point is my point is my point is the idea is still the same which is we still have things that represent threats. When you talk about 2016,

the Warriors, who were so dominant, right? And 173 games and everything. That Rocket series, they still needed that Game 7 where the Rockets missed a million shots. That Thunder series, they still needed Clay Thompson to go supernova crazy. Right? And the finals,

obviously, they were up 3-1 in that one, and they blew it. Things still happen. We still play the games. We still have not had, I don't think, in the history of basketball, a season where it's like, from game one to the last game of the finals, everything was a yawner. That's why you're not good faith. Not good faith.

Plus, they played the nuggets last season in the semifinals. Aaron Gordon. That was the Aaron Gordon. Hamstring. There you go. So they went to seven there and got pushed more than anybody outside of the finals. Like they saw Yokic and they beat him with defensive strategy. Like I hear what you're saying, Dan, your good faith argument is that was them inexperienced.

Now they have the championship medal and all that. That's a good faith argument. A bad faith argument is to say, well, I mean, look, they won game seven by double digits. Two game sevens they had, missing two pivotal players. That's a bad faith argument, Dan. That's a bad faith argument. All right. You mentioned that, but what I would say would be an overall concern for the league.

You did have some great moments during, for the love of God. For John Heyman, teams across Major League Baseball are looking at pitcher Joey Gallo. Back to you, Dan. he's got a big arm uh you're turning him into a pitcher he is indeed working out as a pitcher for multiple major league baseball franchises down the gallo or the callow gallo with a g or galo with a c gallo i was thinking joey callow oh joey gallo's dead of course the thing that i was trying to make that was not a bad faith argument is that when you think of last year's postseason and singular moments, I think Halliburton is the one who produced the singular moment,

but because in the age of threes you have more double-digit result, you didn't have game seven buzzer beaters. You did not have game sevens that were close. I worry the way that the league has gone with the three-pointer. I don't, do you think this is a stupid worry to have that you're going to get more and more, you did get this recently, more and more double-digit results so you don't get the dramatic endings that you need to create the moments that continue to live on forever? Go ahead and give me all the moments OKC had in last year's playoffs because Halliburton's the guy who got the moments against the Knicks.

Give me the ones you remember last year from OKC. Haliburton gave one of the NBA finals. OKC. Give me the moments OKC had. Not that happening games involving OKC, that OKC did things that you remember. They won a championship doing nothing you remember other than being great. They destroyed. It's hard to argue with that one.

Destroyed them. You understand what I'm saying, though? Yeah, like the three-pointer has distorted some of the results in this sport so that you don't get the close games at Yeah, Halliburton had plenty of moments. The Pacers had plenty of moments on their run. Yeah, several. And the Thunder found a way to go to Game 7 of the NBA finals without those super memorable moments. So you guys aren't worried about it then. You're not worried that the excellence is too much. No, not at all because I think the excellence is what draws people in. People want to see, they want to see Goliath either destroy someone or they want to see David hit him in between their eyes with a slingshot. That's what this whole thing is built as. And anyone who tells you otherwise does not understand what the history of sports have told us. What do the Yankees do in 98?

I think you need more Goliathy behavior. As somebody who's been a master in being unlikable recently, I think you need Shagilders-Alexander to lean in. Like, he needs to be more Goliath if that's what you're saying. I just think they're frankly too likable. Perhaps. In a small market and they're uncontroversial and they have no drama. That's the part, the market. I think. Can it really be a Goliath if it's Oklahoma City?

I think Goliath is whoever is dominant, man. Like, I think dominance is what makes us feel that way. I think when we do this thing, like, oh, we need a controversy. We need people hating each other. That's kind of the lazy way we've covered sports over the social media era. But, like, historically, that's not what does it. People hate success. They don't hate like, oh, because those guys are jerks or whatever.

They hate success. That's the thing that breeds that contempt. And what Oklahoma City is doing and what they have an opportunity to do is something that we haven't had in this sport for about seven or eight years, which is sustained success. But to Dan's bad faith argument, like you had the big three heat and that was a hated team because of the way that they came together and controversy around their big three. The warriors were really likable until Kevin Durant shows up and that changes everything. So to go to Zaz's point, if Yannis all of a sudden ends up with Oklahoma City, that does add the drama, the specter of all of it, a guy who's already a champion joining this team that's already a super team.

That's already going to be one of the greatest of all time. Zaz, you know about that, Specter? I already told you, man, stop asking things I already answer you about. We're going to do you know about in a second with Zaz. Get ready for that. I want to do it rapid fire. But I do think another issue that OKC could have if you're just building storylines and drama. the controversy part of it.

Shea Gilgis Alexander as an MVP isn't the kind of personality that people talk about as face of the league the way they do or did about John Morant or Anthony Edwards just because it's not just that they're likable and wholesome. Key largely in interviews, commercials, everything else,

not terribly interesting. Great player. Fun to watch. Not spokesman for the league type. Now, we'll do it with marketing. We did it with Michael Jordan. He wasn't actually terribly interesting in interviews. But Shea Gilgis Alexander demanding his play speak for him. And this day and age, I mean, that doesn't sell as well as having other things other

than your play. It's just the play with Shea Gilgis Alexander. You're not going to get anything else where people in the sport are embracing him because they love the nature of his personality, that that personality has any kind of edge. I don't see him as like a recluse. I don't look, he's like Tim Duncan. I would compare him to Steph, I mean, say even Steph Curry. Not an interesting guy, not an interesting interview, at least not until recently.

Michael Jordan is a good example. Michael Jordan gave you a straight vanilla answer to every question, and guess what? The dominance won out. We just loved him because he was great. I think Shea Gilles-Alexander, not a recluse. He's a guy who's engaging. Hold on a second, though. Hold on a second, though.

You're not going to tell me that Michael Jordan, like part of the problem they have. Shea Gildjus Alexander doesn't have moments. I mean, Michael Jordan has a thousand moments. You don't remember that moment. What a pro once? What a pro wants is a moment. What a pro needs. Down that stretch against Indiana,

we had the footwork and he came back and he hit that shot and everyone was like, that's a travel. I'm like, not a travel because it starts with the gather. You got moments, man. That explanation for greatness in terms of enduring,

I want to watch that. That's not a gather is not on Michael Jordan's resume. No, you know what we have on my... You know what we have on Michael Jordan's resume? He shoved the shit out of Brian Russell. Yeah! We shoved the shit.

on him. He shoved him. But you know what? The dominance, we accepted it. We love him for it. But at the time, at the time, people are like, that's a foul. And you guys just continue to protect him and all that year. Miami takes it from here. You know about that is coming up with Zaslow. Thank you guys.