The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - Hour 1: The Measurement System

Episode Date: February 21, 2024

The George Karl vs. Carmelo Anthony drama is weird, but is it also sad? Then, Lucy and Jess have takes on what Dan keeps referring to as the "College Football Measurement System," the crew gets over their post-football sadness with more CFB business talk, and a very current and not-at-all-dated legal issue between Burger King and Hungry Jack's. Plus, Amin cares about basketball and explains why All-Star Weekend may actually be an issue for Adam Silver and the NBA. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You're listening to Giraffe Kings Network. This is the Don Lebatore Show with the Stugatz Podcast. I want to hear what Lucy and Jessica have to say about the new college football measurement system I want to hear what Lucy and Jessica have to say about Sarkeesian at Texas getting ten million dollars a year and a couple of cars and a private plane like a lot of the big coaches have Are they measuring first downs differently now you keep saying measurement system? Oh, just how we determine a champion I don't believe that anybody was better than Georgia last year, but I don't believe Michigan was appreciably better than Alabama last year.

Alabama was in one game. Yes, in one game they were. That's right. And Michigan was good in another. But our measurement system is flawed in that sport, I think. They keep changing it, making it a little bit better and telling us that that's the best one. And now they've changed it again. I just wanted to go back for a second to what Amin was saying about George Carl and Carmelo Anthony because this is a dirty pettiness that really is unbecoming a couple of adults what is happening here that the two of them, one of whom has been to hell and back to death and back because George Carl has overcome a ton in his life for him to be yelling still

at Carmelo Anthony about the following. This is the back story. Carmelo Anthony says George Carl has always hated him since he arrived in Denver. He arrives in Denver as the big name coach. He arrives, Carmelo's the star. He tells at the first practice, Carmelo, according to the podcast that he does with Merrow, he, Carmelo says that he called me overrated upon meeting me, and that he saw a Detlef Shremp role for me.

Carmelo is a Hall of Famer, and Detlef Shremp is not. And they keep going back and forth, back and forth. George Carl has wanted to be on that podcast with Mero, has asked to be on the podcast with Mero, and doesn't do himself any favors when he sends out a tweet in on the birthday of Nicolay Jokic where he says happy birthday to the greatest champion in Denver history, greatest team player and greatest number 15 in Nuggets history and Carmelo Anthony has said that they're doing petty things with his number, number 15 even though you can say the best of his career

was in Denver, correct? It wasn't in New York. He was a great player in Denver. This is a couple of months ago when Mello first talked about it on 7 p.m. in Brooklyn. And I went on bully ball with Rachel Nichols and DeMarcus Cousins and we're talking about, was it petty of the nuggets to give away 15?

And I said, absolutely, because you know when a great player is played for your team, you kind of hold that number back. So Yolkich came in not as a top five pick, not as this incredibly illustrious kind of great resume guy. He came in as a backup center. Nirkic was their starting center,

and Yolkich was the backup. And then they tried to play them both at the same time They didn't know Yolkic didn't know he's gonna be this great So the fact that they gave him the number 15 it was an F you now you could say it the exit was also kind of Dirty or whatever, but ultimately like that's that wasn't a mistake that they gave Yolkic 15 They knew what they were doing the exit of Mello was dirty that the trick Yes, it was dirty for months in the news Mellow endured the stain of when player empowerment goes wrong where he was stuck in a purgatory in Denver Where he wanted out and they needed to trade pieces and get value for somebody who wanted out and he had to live with that

He did very gracefully under he impossible circumstances he did but but he he caught as you mentioned the flak of like all these guys don't want to play with our own crap right it wasn't ugly exit it as a result of the nuggets i feel like they gave that number out very freely in a way that in phoenix steve nasch got traded to los angeles which is a division rival and all that stuff when in Phoenix Steve Nash got traded to Los Angeles,

which is a division rival and all that stuff, marching Gortat was acquired right around there. At the end of that season, he asked, can I switch my number to 13? Cause I've always won 13. And Jake Gaspar, who's still the equipment manager, they said, absolutely not. Cause it's understood even though like Steve's exit

was it great, was it not great? It's like, no, we don't give that number away. Like that number is gonna, it goes from here up there. Right? That didn't happen in Denver. So automatically there, Carmella's walking around with that. Right? Like they gave my number away like that.

Now, is Yoke it's a better player than Carmella's? I don't think anyone's arguing that. We all know it now. We all accept it now. But at the time, he wasn't, it wasn't projected to be that. Is there another story like that in the history of the NBA where a guy comes in and they're like, ah, we're not sure if he's gonna be any good.

And then he's better than everyone in the entire sport. Oh, he's amazing. I can't believe it. Steve Nash. He's better than everyone ever. Yeah, that's pretty, I mean, but no one rises to this level of, I didn't think he was gonna be any good.

Yeah, Curry. Curry is on the top. But I mean, okay. But Curry was the top 10 pick. At the same time, it was the top 10 pick. But the first couple years of Curry was like ankle problems. Is he too small? He's not that good. Too adorable.

And even if he was, nobody was saying this guy's gonna be the best or a unanimous MVP or any of those things, right? Like no one thought that. They thought he thought it was a pretty good plan. All right, we've covered the last dance. We got Mellow leaving Denver. Pick a side, I mean.

No, what's next? Are we gonna do like the Chris Paul trade getting rejected? What do you think of that? I mean. We're gonna do college football right now. We're gonna get to the Beatles biopic. Let's do 2016 NBA finals.

That goes. What a blown lead. Am I right? What a time. How about Love is Blind? The cupcakes? You guys remember the three in one cupcakes? Yeah.

Tell me about yesterday's college football news. What was interesting about it? Measurement system. So not a measurement system. I don't know why you keep calling it that. It's always confused. Yeah, it's really not related at all. What you mean by measurement system,

that's like how they decide teams. Still not even really related. Okay, thank you. What you mean by measurement system, that's like how they decide teams, still not even really related to that too. They've basically just reformatted the entire playoff model. So now they have, obviously they're expanding to 12 teams, originally they were gonna have like a six and six model, and with the Pac-12 dying,

they're not able to do that anymore. So they've decided that the model for next year is a five seven, which means the five highest ranked conference champions automatically make it into the playoff, and then the seventh highest ranked teams after that will also make the playoff. Makes perfect sense. Why would that not be the way that you measure a champion? Like I don't understand why that's not a measurement system. I'm saying the way you determine a champion is decided now that we are gonna have the playoffs. We've always wanted closest

With no other context you just said to the audience we want to talk about college football changing their measurement system It's a very abstract definition. I think Dan and we're very literal in the shipping container I honestly thought you meant like BCS. They brought the BCS back and that's. We just love mistakes, honestly. Yeah. And even if it's not a real mistake, we just want to pounce. Yeah, it's like you grief eat, we mistake eat. And there's a lot to eat on this show. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, Semantics, Dan. You guys were fine with how it is we determined a champion last year. Michigan.

No. What are you talking about? The system? I'm not saying that you support Michigan winning the entire thing, but the way that it was determined you guys think is fair and equitable, even though there's cheating involved. Not at all. They put 13 people in a room who I don't know if they watch college football or not to decide who the four best teams are.

Like, controversial final four, to say the least. But Bama got in. Didn't we all kind of think they should be in? Yeah! I don't know, too. There's a lot of gray area there. We don't have to, Jim Gray, we don't have to rehash the college football playoff debate,

but my- Not with 2016-98 finals talk on that. Exactly, thank you. I mean, my opinion is that there's really no great way to measure the champion in college football. I don't think four teams is a great way. It's a fine way. I think most of the years we got a national champion

that most people agree on. I think Michigan was probably the best team in the country this year, Astrix, because they never had to play Georgia. But, and they cheated. She's like a mean, I'm not hearing an opinion here. And they cheated. I see, I hear a fence sitting right now.

My opinion is that there's no great way. So now we're gonna try 12, see if that's great. We'll probably get some pretty good games in the middle rounds of the playoffs. I don't know if every game's gonna great way. So now we're gonna try 12, see if that's great. We'll probably get some pretty good games in the middle rounds of the playoffs. I don't know if every game's gonna be great. That was kind of the biggest complaint about the 14 playoffs is that not every game was great. We had a lot of dud semifinals.

So now instead of doing like six or eight, we're just jumping straight into 12. Now one through 12 will be a much better game. Yeah, like four, we won't have any dud games anymore. So like eight and nine will play each other. And like, you know, like it's seated. So the fifth team will play a much better game. Yeah, like for me. We won't have any back-to-back anymore. Well, so like eight and nine will play each other and like, you know, like it's seated. So the fifth team will play the 12th team. The sixth team will play the 11th team.

Yeah, and then the top four teams get buys and then they all play, you know, the, whatever. You understand how bracket work is. Top 14, buy, buy, buy, and buy? Buy, buy, buy, buy. No fifth buy. Because of the Pac-5. The highest ranked teams outside of that

for the first round get to host the first round of playoffs at home, which I think is super, super cool. So we could have a situation where you have a college full of playoff game taking place in South Bend, in Tuscaloosa. In Iowa. Maybe if we dream and we hope and we pray

and we sacrifice to the gods potentially. But the 12 teams is not what we wanted But I think given the fact that that's just what we're stuck with because that's you know They completely ignored six and eight as just said this is a pretty good system It makes up for the fact that the pack 12 is not really a real confidence anymore It gives chance for group of five schools to compete. I'm happy you issue with it Twitter seemed to be saying that Notre Dame was a benefactor of this new system. Is that true? Is this good for Notre Dame? I think that this is probably what Notre Dame wanted. In fact, I can probably say, yes, this is what Notre Dame wanted. I think a

lot of people saw that Notre Dame would not be eligible for the buy if they were a top four team in the playoff and thought that would be a bad thing for Notre Dame, but I think this gives them it I mean Notre Dame is not going to be eligible to win a conference championship because they're not a conference the tradeoff is Okay, if you're that a top four team in the country, you'll never get a buy But if you're a five through twelve you're you have a path to the playoff that you didn't have before and you don't play during Conference championship weekend ever no matter what so yeah, you have to play four games in a row in the playoffs, but you're already taking that week off. I think it's actually, I could see an argument that it's worse for a conference championship losing team because you have now lost your conference championship game.

You have to play that 13th game and you don't get a buy in the playoffs. So now you have played all of the games where like the stakes, I think a little higher for the conference championship because you really, really want that buy, especially if you have to play that game and you don't get seated in the five slot because the five gets the 12 and the 12 possibly is like a G five conference champion. So maybe, you know, if they're not great that year,

that's an easy-ish game, still a play playoff game but you get home field like Lucy said so I kind of see an argument that way is a little bit that might be trickier. Okay but it doesn't feel like you took a definitive takey side and all that matters here. I don't like 12 teams I've said that for like years. More games with more stakes is not something that anyone's gonna have a problem with, who loves sports. If I'm just giving them more stakes on these games, more, more is a great solution to everything in football,

just more. James Franklin might have a problem with it. He doesn't like the big game. It's not gonna work out well for him. I do think though, Dan, cause we, like people said that when they went to a 14 playoff, like, yeah, people complained when the game sucked. The games had stakes and Alabama still blew out Michigan State and Clemson still blew

out Ohio State. Like there were still blowouts and people were like, we don't want this game with stakes because it's bad. So yeah, people are still gonna complain no matter what. Complain, complain, complain, and then they watched all the games and the games were great and Michigan cheated its way to a championship and it's not disputed somehow because of how they measure the games with stakes. Then I have an update from the No Bull Tour. Hungry Jack, embroil legal battle with Burger King. Hey folks, it's Mike Ryan.

Now you've had the distinct privilege of knowing me for close to 18 years and you know that I've changed. A lot of my personal life has changed. I've changed as a professional. I am a parent now. My level of involvement in my favorite college football program has also changed. But one thing that hasn't changed for me is my favorite beer. You know when it's real with me. I think you do anyways and you know how much I love Miller Lite. I've loved it forever really. It's my favorite beer of all time and it made all the great me. I think you do anyways, and you know how much I love Miller Lite. I've loved it forever, really. It's my favorite beer of all time, and it made all the great moments in my life all that much better. And when Miller Lite came aboard on our show, I was super stoked

about it because I believed in the product. Because every time I take a sip of Miller Lite, I look around and I think, yeah, this was the right call. Times change. People like me can change, but you can always enjoy the great taste of Miller light tastes like Miller time to get Miller light delivered right to your door Visit Miller light comm slash Dan we can try to find it pretty much anywhere that sells beer celebrate responsibly Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin 96 calories per 12 ounces Don lebatard Just Jack White doing Elvis and do we cocks two guts This is the Unlebatar show with the Stugas. I want to ask all of you this question as children who have grown up with what modern

day sports coverage has been and has seen the proliferation of everything in social media that makes things spread or grow or not. Okay? I don't trust any ratings being dispersed by anybody at this point, but all-star viewership for the game that we were all complaining about evidently was up 14 percent and they're saying 20 percent with unique viewers. So they're doing account of the All-Star game was got into the reach of 12 million people. And the thing that I wanted to ask the group as it relates to sports coverage, kind of in line with Chris Cody's general theory that Zion Williamson tearing his Nike shoe isn't ultimately bad for Nike because

all publicity is good publicity. When I say to you, the college football arguing that happens is content every year because we don't like the system. And then I say to you, not bad for the sport. And then I tell you, everyone complaining with hysterics about the All-Star game being shitty not actually bad for the sport not in the short term when it comes to garnering the thing that matters today which had a how do i get your attention and i get your attention because people are pissed off about something and having them pissed off is better than having them be indifferent or not watch it all

or not care at all someone i ask you about college football and the all-star game in, when the coverage is loud and negative, is it that bad? Because Michigan won the championship and Jim Harbaugh got a great job because of it. And for all the complaining we did about how they made the choice, Michigan's the champion. Yeah, I don't think there has been that much negative coverage of college football and the playoff. Like people argue about it, but I think that's like baked into the sport and pretty much has been for like over 100 years. Everyone's gonna fight about

who the real national championship is. And it was Michigan. They are going to have a billion players drafted in the NFL this year. Jim Harbaugh is now one of the highest paid NFL coaches. Rightfully so. He did a great job coaching. Are people gonna remember the Conor Stallion's thing?

Yeah, they are. And Michigan kind of caved when the Big Ten called them on it and he took a suspension. So there's a little bit of gray area there in terms of how you remember them as a national championship, but they won the games. They're the national champions. And I think that I don't see many arguments that a 12 team playoff is bad for the sport of college football. I think the opposite. There's going to be more games, like you said. I think my concern with it has always been that it's probably pretty bad for the players, because we remember in the NFL when they added the 17th game, and the players union did not want it. And once you take the toothpaste out of the tube, you're

not putting it back in. You're never going to get rid of college football playoff games now that we have a system with 12 games. And now you're making players who do not have any control over their salaries that they don't get paid over how many games they play in a season over any of these things that at least you could say NFL players bargain for although we know that the contracts are not fair like there is not a power balance in the NFL despite the fact that there is a union now you have college football players many of which are not going to get paid for their performances or for what they do in college football. Now you have to win and play even more games to win something in college football.

And I think that that's something that really sucks about the sport. Now that sucks for sure. I think when it comes to like just arguing about how the champion has decided in college football, this is a sport that has 133 teams that have vastly different resources, like this is the most unequal sport, I think, out there.

Obviously, there's going to be some sort of controversy and debate with how do you decide the best team out of 133 teams when you're playing 12 to 14 games a season. Obviously, the 12 team playoff is going to sort of kind of like dissipate that argument a bit, but I think something that we're gonna come to find is we already see in this four team playoff,

there's usually a pretty big difference between the first best team in the country and the fourth best team in the country. That's gonna widen the gap when you're going one from 12 because it's such a top heavy sport. It's the games that you're trying to avoid in the like, we don't wanna see a blowout, that's still gonna continue to happen.

Didn't Dan ask about all star ratings? I did. However. You're talking in the age so much today, Dan. They miss college football and I don't blame them for missing college football. Just like you missed football yesterday, you had to, you had to, you just,

you're potentially someone who has sad eyes as soon as football ends. But I want to go back to what Lucy and Jess said, because to me it's at the core of sort of the ethical conundrum with this sport. If I'm arguing on the front end, there's never a complaint you're gonna hear from anybody who's a football fan about more games,

except for that one, if you want to be human about things which is they're throwing more bodies Into the mall, but now it's all professional football now now it's not though But it doesn't equal professional, but it's paid it doesn't it doesn't have unions It doesn't have the same protections or power not employees. I right, but they're getting paid professional money It's not the money ESPN just gave $7.8 billion for these games and the players don't get any of that money. The fact that they get money for it though makes it ostensibly professional. Does it not? Isn't that the definition of an athlete gets paid for play. Not every single athlete gets paid for,

actually none of them get paid for play technically. But no, because like Lucy said, there's 133 teams and you can probably make the case that most players on the top teams are getting something. Not every player on every team is getting something. And they're all playing in the same system. They're all eligible. So you don't think that college football players

are now professional when George's quarterback is starting with a Lambo? I think you're making like a distinction that I don't necessarily agree with. I think he had a Lambo anyway. Let's say, oh, now they've got Lambo's. Now they're getting cars.

Ah, come on, man. Come on, Poliana. I'm just saying they're professional. Why does that make me Pollyanna? No, because they're being paid. Because I think people who say that as a disingenuous way to like, I'm not saying that this is what you're doing,

but I think people will say like, everyone's getting paid now, what's the issue? We don't need to do anything more. Oh, but you know I care about the injustice on the bodies. I just assume that once you make it about money, that's what the money's for money that's what the money's for that's what the trade is like it becomes a more brazen over commercial transaction i can argue on behalf of their humanity all i want uh... but once the the

consumer wants more games we're gonna trample the bodies they're not getting paid to play football though that this is not a system that we have the lip tremble I think is a little too much yeah the tear what are you doing it's a great visual joke I was not aware that he could cry on cue he at Chris Cody has the tear looks fake does it look fake I don't it doesn't look fake it looks to me like he has summoned a couple of It was a great close-up

It's a it is a visual joke while we were talking so the it is lost entirely I wasn't visual he's been moaning for like 12 minutes. Yeah, the audience is gonna have a different feel of what this is. Yeah. There you go. Oh my God, the audio artist. It's visually great. It's visually exceptional. So forgive me, Jess.

I want to come back here because I'm not making a semantics argument on this. You're right, there are distinctions between collectively bargained things, union care, health benefits, and being employees. But the way they have changed the grift and the injustice in college football is they've got $7.8 billion of television money.

ESPN is gonna, it's not even just ESPN's games. They can sell those games to others, but none of that money for that product, none of it is going to the players. It goes some to the schools and then the schools spend it in some resources. But you are right that these are not employees that are cared for in any way by the system, the institution or the way that it's governed. But it still feels like once you start paying the top, the best schools all have athletes that are making a good amount of money. The top end of this sport when the playoff games are being played, the top five

schools, those are going to feel like professional players who are out there. I think it's important to note that a lot of these athletes that are making a ton of money like Caitlyn Clark at Iowa is making a crap ton of money, but a good chunk of that, if not most of it is all coming from brand deals, which isn't going to her playing. Like, I think that college football, you have such giant rosters and like, the Florida State Georgia game, you think that Florida State quarterback

is getting a ton of money? Like he was a third string, fourth string guy. Like, there's, none of these players aren't making money directly from their school either. It depends state by state where it's not, they're not professional athletes. They're just, you you know getting sponsored yeah and but I think the other side of the argument is where they get sponsored for being famous

and they're famous because they play the Florida State third string quarterback is a great example he's not famous hence he's not getting paid the old lineman they're not getting paid even though someone might be, you know, top 10 picks or whatever. The famous glittery guys are the ones who get paid and that's kind of where it ties into marketing more than it does performance. Yeah, but Caleb Williams is getting paid from a brand whether he's at Oklahoma or USC. So it's, I think the like the thing to note is it's not coming directly from the universities. And that's actually not even entirely true anymore, just because it's such a state by state basis that it's just like you can't just come out and say

that they're all professional athletes. Let me ask the two of you though, morally conscious human beings, you do say it sucks that they have to play more games, but you will not care one iota less about the college football season or results because that immorality exists at the, but you will not care one iota less about the college football seasoner results because that immorality exists at the middle of it, right? Not your morality will be sabotaged by how much you care about the results. Yup.

Yeah, I'm a fan of the sport as much as I think it's a tremendous cluster. Amin's got another update from Australia and the sponsoring of this No Bull tour of Luke Longley, Horace Grant and Scotty Pippin. Yeah, so let's start by throwing those logos up on the screen so everyone can see. He's so right about this.

Burger King and Hungry Jacks guys. I can't find. I can't find. So they have no relationship, no business. It's not like a, you know how McDonald's has its rebranded version Fazzoli's yes, no, they were they were embroiled as I said at the end of last thing when they were embroiled in illegal debate I like that but thank you. I mean, that's the same because you need they broiled the hammer

Well guys I have an update The legal battle has been settled and it's done. That fast? Yeah. When did that happen? In the 90s. Oh. Thank you, Mike Fuentes, for telling me

that they were suing each other and not mentioning that that happened in the 90s. Where was he yesterday during that kid rock conversation? What were the results? I checked her extraordinary. Surely Hungry Jacks lost that lawsuit and had to pay a lot of money. Those are identical Problem quite the opposite quite the opposite Dan

Burger King ended up paying hungry jacks a lot of money. You know why cuz they bought them. That's right That's how they settle things big boy style America USA USA! USA! USA! USA! Just borrow, you don't want to send? America Jack? Don Lebatard! Off-handed to me and Chris before we started playing, he's like, seems like that Tony guy gets triggered pretty easily. And I laughed the hardest out loud I've ever laughed in my life.

Stugats! He's freaking stupid. Triggered pretty easily. That guy. That's amazing. That's so ridiculous. Triggered. It's the most incredible thing.

No, it's crazy. It's crazy. People, Dan, you know what I've realized? Know yourself. People love putting their athletic insecurities on me. Don't project that shit on me. You suck. Not my problem.

Chris Cody leaves the game early. Oh, let's support Chris Cody. Whatever the f*** Billy does, let's support that. Mike Ryan, let's go to Buffalo. Oh, let's go to Buffalo. Like, give me a kiss. You look absolutely... Tony, you totally proved that you weren't at all unhinged.

Thank you. Thank you. This is the Don Lebatar Show with the Stugat. I mean, as you approach old-head status, and you've seen a number of things over the last couple of years, not necessarily an oddball, but around here, but also an oddball, because Charlotte is, at least theoretically, mathematically younger

than you are. I think she's younger than me in every sense. Spiritually in some way, she can be older. No, not even spiritually. Okay, fair enough. What are you talking about? Oddball is every day. Spiritually in some way she can be older. No, not even spiritually. Okay, fair enough. What are you talking about? Oddball is every day, I've made fun of Charlotte

for some of her old woman sensibilities, regardless. She dressed up as Groucho. Are you having a spiritually old off with Charlotte? Absolutely, and I win every time. The larger point that I was trying to make is that you are somebody who cares deeply about basketball. You have seen yourself age out in some places generationally where you don't connect with

the 20-year-old player necessarily. What just happened at the All-Star Game was reacted to very viscerally by people who care about basketball and people who care about that game is mattering back from when Bird and Magic and Michael cared about it and they expect these players to carry on that legacy respectfully. So I'm asking you without being an emotional old head and as a practical businessman the damage is what when the NBA is releasing, hey, our ratings were good.

So there's a couple of things going on. Number one, you don't have to go back to Bird and Magic and Jordan. Just today I watched film from 2013 All-Star Game, which was basically a decade ago, of Kobe defending LeBron. And I'm not just talking about like getting a hand up. I'm talking about switching, about picking them up full court. This happened.

We had this in these kids' lifetime. They grew up watching all-star games that were competitive at some point. Maybe not the whole game, but at some point were competitive defensively. And so I don't know if you know this Den. Do you know how many personal fouls happened on Sunday? Weren't there like two shots, two free throws shot by one team? There were three fouls. That means if you took every foul of every player in that game and gave them just to one guy,

he wouldn't even be in foul trouble in the first half of the game. There were three block shots, maybe two or three block shots. It's not a game. It is literally just people watching other people dribble up and take a shot and then, okay, now it's my turn. But I'm asking you about the real damage. The real damage is this, Dan.

You know what, up fronts are? Do I have to explain what up fronts are to the audience? It's sales for television projects. What's coming up, the advertisers can know what's coming up. Right. And what they do is they have the talent for these different programs, for instance, Mike Goldick and Mike Greenberg will show up and let everybody know all the great new things that are going to happen this season as a result of this,

and so you should sponsor us, put more money in us, right? All Star Weekend is a bit like that. It's like up fronts, right? You're telling sponsors, and in this case, we're also telling broadcasters, hey, this is a crown jewel.'re also telling broadcasters, hey, this is a crown jewel. When Turner pays money for their TV package, it's not like an even amount of money for all the games.

There's a certain premium for having playoff games, including one of the conference finals. There's a certain premium for having opening night. There's a certain premium for having MLK day games for Turner, and there's a huge premium for the All-Star weekend to have exclusivity on that, that only the celebrity game goes to ESPN. So when we're sitting here on the cusp of another rights deal, which will give us a lot of money, which will fuel the BRI, which fuels the salary cap, which fuels what the maximum salaries are.

So a very real chain reaction of if this thing turns into a shit weekend every year, the money we get for it goes down, which means the money that goes to the cap goes down, which means the maximum salaries go down, which means you cost yourself money because you were too cool to get a hand up. It's ridiculous. And again, I'm not asking for loose balls and flagrant fouls. I'm just asking for a amount of competitive desire that occurred with players that were

playing in that game. Do you believe the ratings are not? First of all, I don't believe any ratings, as you said earlier, especially now, because they're taking and twisting any which way of people logging and streaming, whatever, as that counts as someone watching. On top of that, even if I were to take it as at least comparable to last year's ratings in terms of the methodology, I would say the return from east to east to west would bring that about. Like people are like, okay, they're going back to normal. And the commissioner spent a whole week telling everyone, hey, it's going to be better this year. It's going

to be better this year. Dan, you saw the look on his face. You heard his voice. He looked crestfallen. Dog, that's not, that's not someone say, hey, we did good here today. Well, because it's embarrassing embarrassing to come out all week and say this year they try and you've never heard such complaints about not trying the optics this is the part though I really don't think it's about the game I think it's about how bad these optics are if you're gonna hate the athlete for making a lot of money it feels disrespectful to you that the greatest of the stars can't do us the courtesy

of showing joy about what they do for a living because joy is at the center of why you pay to consume it. So Dan, there's a couple of things, right? One of them is we're doing a thing here. I don't know if you guys know this. We're selling this thing. We are all- In partnership. We are all actively selling this thing. All of of us right. We're all at the up front

It's all you stars who are making all this money But I understand after 15 years of LeBron James and player empowerment how those guys say and no man I don't need to share this with you I'm a star now and I don't need to care about the next generation I'm funny enough when there was a graph that came out that showed the viewership in the millions from 2012 or 11 down to what we are now. And obviously it went from like 10 million all the way down to like four something that we've seen now.

I mean, in your opinion, is it the players take the identity of the top dog in the league where Kobe was like, I'm gonna buckle down and play defense. And LeBron's been like, nah, I don't really care about this. I don't care about the dunk contest. I don't care about the all-star game. And people have followed suit with that.

I would say, so this is what I would say. Obviously very few guys are going out there, Kobe style, right? That's another level. But LeBron has been one of the better ones to me. Now, Sunday night, a minutes restriction, he's 100 years old. we allow him, we give him that grace. Yannis plays hard, Devin Booker plays hard I think, Damian Lillard plays hard,

but at the end of the day you got guys that clearly don't give a damn. I'ma name names, Luca Doncic and Anthony Edwards clearly did not care. They told you, Anthony was told you afterwards, like, I'm not going to do this And so this is the part where part of it is it comes on the league and the players Association to impress upon them guys This is a thing. I'm not saying go get hurt I'm but also no one has ever gotten hurt in the history also guys thing other than Kobe Get his nose bloodied you guys think that I believe that that was Adam Silver's most embarrassing public moment. I've never seen him.

I've never seen him feel that negative. But I've never, Dan, forget about embarrassing. I've never seen Adam Silver not be a beacon of positivity, even when he was kicking Donald Stormy up a league. No, but you say forget embarrassment. What I saw on the leader and commissioner of the league was he was rendered publicly useless by his employees. of the league was he was rendered publicly useless by his employees.

Like, I thought he was embarrassed to be out in front of people after that game on behalf of the league that he sells. On behalf of the message that he was putting out all weekend long is what it was. The other part of this though, Dan, that people don't talk about, and I think this is a very actionable place, I'm gonna put some of this on the coaches. people don't talk about and I think this is a very actionable

place. I'm gonna put some of this on the coaches. You see look at that. I thought Doc coached a hell of a game. A good offense, good system. That was a very, very astute observation by you. I appreciate that. I mean they won an almost a blowout. It was his best coached game of the year I thought. He clearly watched a lot of basketball. I really appreciate that about you. Very knowledge. It's a good question. Good question. It does make you feel good when you say that. It's like, oh, I know ball.

I honestly forgot he was doing a bit. I was like, wow, look at me. That was great. See how easy it is for him. Oh my God. I love this guy. You see how easy it is for him. But then, the reality is, if I'm Chris Finch,

and I don't want to put him on Jump Street, but I'm just using his name because he was coaching the West. And I see Luca doing what he's doing. I was, Luca, sit down, book, get in there. You get to watch your rival go out there and play, and if, Luca, I don't give a damn how many votes you got. You're getting seven minutes tonight.

If coaches start playing the guys who take it seriously and benching the guys, one or two things are gonna happen. Either these guys are gonna be like, damn, I gotta take it seriously too, so I can get back in this game or you're gonna pound So I don't want to be an all-star and in which case take your ass home Take your ass home the most shocking part of the whole night was learning who Chris Finch was I was like who does he coach Chris? Minnesota I learned that well night, but before that we talked about it on radio row

You didn't know John and Kaminga I know. Wow. He'll get to it. We did a whole bit about this show. He'll get to it in the playoffs. Chris will get to it in the playoffs. It just started like this week, basketball. By the way, the other thing that's going to save this is a glimmer of a hope. I saw it on Friday night during the skills competition

of all places where Victor Wemmianma and Palo Bancaro and Anthony Edwards were a team of all number one overall picks, competing in skills competition. And Wemmianma was like, all right guys, let's do this, let's go. And he goes through it and he's trying. And then Anthony Edwards comes out and shoots left handed. And Wemby was like, what the eff are you doing?

That's the only thing that's gonna change it. It has to happen from within on some level, which is- The big dogs. The big dogs come in and they care. And Victor Wembenyama, we're all excited for him, but I think that's the most excited I've ever been, because I saw he cared and he was disgusted by that. And until you got more guys who are okay with being vocal,

he's a rookie now, he can't be vocal. In a couple years, when he's one of the best players, he can be vocal and say, hey, stop doing that in the same way that Kobe did. This feels like a lot of faux outrage. Like outside of Bob Ryan and David Altrich. No, I mean his father. I mean his man.

Stephen A is mad about it. Chris, Chris, did you hear anyone? Anyone, name one person that you know said, that game was really good. No, but I'm also watching it and it's just, I take it for what it is. Like it's an exhibition game. Your opinion is null no though because you don't actually care very much. You just got done saying I'll pay attention as soon as football's over Yeah, also Chris, but a lot of people are like me. It's like it's not that big

It's an exhibition game like what do you guys want from these dudes Chris? You say that and I tell you ten years ago. We got competitiveness We got guys trying and we got better ratings! Let someone twist an ankle, you guys are gonna totally flip on this. We got better ratings. We got better ratings. Let Web and Yama go down playing Hardin and All-Star Game and everyone's gonna take their script on this. Name a guy who got hurt at All-Star Game and then that cost him games for the rest of the year.

Even one game. I don't have an answer for your question. Kobe Bryant broke his nose. And was. Wade. I remember that. Like that's the closest. Let's look at how to broadcast in a game

because they have the all cast now. Which side did you watch? Did you watch regular broadcasts? You gotta go Barclay there. I went Barclay, Dremond, and Taylor. How do you not go Barclay and Dremond? I felt so bad for Reggie Miller. The line of the night, Dremond said,

this is like a old school Minnesota game for Carl Ante Towns. That's great. He's got 50 and they're down by 20. Put it on the poll please. Which one did you watch at LeBertard's show? The regular broadcast or Dremont and Charles? Because Dremont and Charles is cheating a little bit.

I do feel like this is how the NBA wins. They have their all star game, not matter, make everyone argue about it because they don't have a game for four more days. This is how they win. I don't think it's bad. We're driving NBA conversation during the break. Chris Cody, you might be honest on that.

I don't think it's bad. How do you make money off of it? We've been in this... You turn it into a party for the younger generation. You turn it into something that is different from what it's been. The Saturday Night event was a huge success too, as Sabrina and Seth. Man, you can't tell me Indianapolis

did not love having that in their city. You can't tell me it's not a jewel. Do you know why? Do you know why, Jess, it was a great success? Because it was two star players actually trying. Oh my God, what? Trying? Oh, effort.

What madness is this? Well then why do you need a game? Let's just do that for three days. 18 years and you know that I've changed a lot of my personal life has changed. I've changed as a professional I am a parent now my level of involvement in my favorite college football program has also changed But one thing that hasn't changed for me is my favorite beer. You know when it's real with me I think you do anyways, and you know how much I love Miller light. I've loved it forever Really, it's my favorite beer of all time and it made all the great moments in my life all that much better. And when Miller Lite came aboard on our show,

I was super stoked about it because I believed in the product because every time I take a sip of Miller Lite, I look around and I think, yeah, this was the right call. Times change, people like me can change, but you can always enjoy the great taste of Miller Lite. Tastes like Miller Time. To get Miller Lite delivered right to your door,

visit MillerLite.com slash Dan. Or you can try to find it pretty much anywhere that sells beer. Celebrate responsibly Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 96 calories per 12 ounces.