The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - Hour 1: The Mitchell Report Was Crazy, Huh?

Episode Date: March 17, 2025

“You’re not upset that they’re cheating, you’re upset that they’re dumb.” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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The tequila that invented tequila. Proximo, cuervo.com, please drink responsibly. Cuervo. This is the Dan Lebatard Show with the Stugatz Podcast. This episode of the Dan LeBattard Show with Stu Gotts is presented by DraftKings. DraftKings, the crown is yours. I stumbled around a little bit in talking

about performance enhancers and that Bill's story. But I really did want to explore what I would have to present the public with, a public that in sports has become more informed and more skeptical, I would guess, than any sports fans before it because of how often your heroes have used the pharmacy to get advantages and because of how unsurprised we are now that competitive people would be super competitive about competition and look for any advantage.

The Bills, who came very close to winning the championship last year, had a team the last three or four years that if a few bounces go a different way, they could be a championship team or if the Chiefs don't exist, they might be a championship team. They signed two free agents chiefs don't exist, they might be a championship team. They signed two free agents because they need help, because last off season, Chris Cody was right, the Jets were a betting favorite according to DraftKings over the Bills when last season began. And it's because of Aaron Rodgers,

and it was because of the Bills had lost some people. So in free agency, they grab two players and then they learn one of them, who they would not have signed for a year if they had known this, is going to be out for six games. The other one, they do know that he's going to be out for six games but they sign him to a three-year deal anyway. And my question to the group is, unless that's Josh Allen, do any of you care like can I make it any other bill from the last ten years and none of you actually care about whether someone is performance enhancing or not performance enhancing but if I

make it Josh Allen then you'll be like mmm because it's not the crime it's the fame Chris has a good one that people would notice Damar Hamlin I think everybody would understand. Huh, that's how it happened. Do you understand my larger point and what do you deal with? Dan, I don't feel like I don't know enough about the kinds of PEDs that these players are using, but it's sort of my understanding that when you stop using them, they stop doing anything for you, right? I would assume. Did it stick to Von Miller? Because he got pinched for it several years ago.

Did that stigma stick around? I'm just saying you've gotta be super famous and it has nothing to do with the actual cheating. Von Miller is way more famous than Larry Oganjoby. Never stuck with Brian Cushing. That's not true. Yes, people would certainly care well more if it was a starting quarterback,

especially one with the physical gifts of Josh Allen. I think it also depends on what it is though and how long they're using it and that sort of stuff. And I don't know if the public, I don't know if I know enough about it to really make a judgment call. Generally, people don't care about NFL PED suspensions. I mean, they care for what it does

to betting lines and fantasy football. And I guess the timing of when these things happen also matter. I feel like if you're a star though, like if Jamar Chase got caught, that would be a new story. It would, but for the weeks that like it's, it doesn't taint his legacy in ways that it does in baseball.

It's just the sport, right? Like in football, no one really seems to care about anything football players do in any aspect of anything. I'm with you I think there's just a general understanding. Yeah, that sports crazier than most Yeah, like I'm so not surprised that Larry Ogunjobi who has been in the league forever Has played with so many teams has found a way to stick through this very difficult position in an alpha male sport by turning to something. It's just not surprising.

In fact, my base assumption is that all these guys have to do something, especially the ones that have stayed in the league for so long, to either recoup from injury or try to avoid it. I'm curious because we talked about this last week in the NBA and basically people would care if it's LeBron. If it's not LeBron, people largely don't really care what's going on in the NBA anymore. In baseball, they cared a lot at the beginning and now you also kind of forget.

The only reason you know is because the length of the suspension is so long that it's so obvious. Like, oh, 81 games, you miss half a season. So you know, but otherwise you kind of forget, oh, this person got suspended, like, three seasons ago, I don't even remember that. Football, you never really care because, like, people are out so frequently in the NFL anyways

with injury that you don't really know why someone's not playing. It's like, oh, PED's like, oh, and they're back next year? Oh, and like, Pro Bowler? Oh, can we get them now for a cheaper price? Like, oh, okay, like, yeah, let's sign up for that. I'm actually curious how the NHL views this since this is why we started today with Eklad.

Like, do the NHL fans care about PEDs? Fan bases do. It's been interesting to see, but I'm also on that algo. So I'm also getting fed more stuff. So I'm not exactly sure if my experience with it is outsized. But the more distance that I get from the Mitchell Report and people speaking in front of Congress, those guys in the late 90s,

I know that they soared with impunity and made a lot of money because of the drugs that they were turning to, but man, that's looking a little unfair in retrospect. Rafael Palmeiro. It's so good now. And ridiculous. It is high good now. Ridiculous. It is high comedy now, looking back on it.

A congressional hearing where Sammy Sosa's pretending he suddenly doesn't understand or speak English. That was a waste of money, if we're going to be honest. Crazy waste of money. That was taxpayer money. It was crazy. Roy, I think you're a hockey purist just because I think you're the only person that likes hockey for a long time.

How do you feel about the whole steroid stuff in hockey? Do you care about this? No. I mean, it hasn't really happened that often. The last time somebody got pinched for PED abuse was Nate Smith, like six or seven years ago when he was in Vegas. So all Panthers. Oh, he's also a Florida Panther.

Really? I mean, it's awfully convenient for someone that, you know, roots for the Panthers to say, I don't really think about it. Like it's, it's bothered me and I'm, I'm deducing that it's certainly helped them because he's looked like a different player this season. Well, the thing is he's an unrestricted free agent at the end of the season. So I don't know how that's going to go into his negotiations with Bill Zito. Well, I'm like, is there Roy, have they said like what kind of steroids or PDs he was using

because there's a difference, right? There's a difference between some of the things that athletes were getting pinched for in the 90s versus things like a stimulant or something that's on the list of performance-adds and drugs that you're not supposed to use that could help you work out long. I genuinely don't know enough about it

to really make the judgment call, but I know that there are some slight differences. What Yannick Sinner got in trouble for that has been like a long, long fought over battle in tennis over the last two years could be a completely different thing than what Barry Bonds was doing. Well, I do know a little something about this.

I do love the expression pinched, someone was pinched for. Like that feels like something that someone would say more in the 1920s, right? That's why Roy Shield, the Shield Watcher was the one who... Yes, pinched... Who started with the pinched.

Can you guys get me the origins of pinched, please? But the thing that I do know something about is that South Florida has been a bit of a rejuvenation mecca for many of these athletes and the science is at the highest end of wherever it is that you'd find people willing to cross a line over money. All of these economies that are bodies are using the height of medicine to heal, to be professionally better, but also to skirt all of the people monitoring

whether or not they're cheating. So when these guys come out and say, I made a mistake on a supplement, which is what they all do, but you don't know whether it's a supplement or an injection, trust me when I tell you that all of the science being used here is to push the boundaries beyond where they can get caught, not beyond where the boundaries

are. They are trying to avoid the police as much as they are trying to heal their bodies because of course competitive people who are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on trainers and medicine of their own money to repair their bodies and their economies are going to go to all lengths to out-compete the next guy doing it. I think the crazy thing about where we are in performance enhancing drugs, unfortunately, is now when you see someone gets pinched for performance enhancing drugs, I think the first thought most people have is, oh, so you're just dumb.

Because everyone's doing it and they know exactly how to get around it and like, oh, we have someone that's dumb and couldn't figure out how to get around it or is just reckless and didn't do what they needed to do to properly pass the test. Which is a crazy thing, but as sports fans, you just kind of have accepted that everyone's just trying to get around the system and they've figured out

how to beat it, and then when someone does you're like, oh, hmm, why can't you figure out trying to get around the system and they've figured out how to beat it. And then when someone does, you're like, oh, hmm. Why can't you figure out how to get around it? I think that is where we are, though, on how superhuman and unnatural some of the things are right now at the height of science. Of course, people would be ultra competitive on that and would find a place where we've arrived there, Billy, just like you are, where we're all looking at it

and saying, yeah, they're all probably doing something, something that's very close to the line on how it is that they stay maximum competitive. I think the reasons why this one resonated so much, as Roy mentioned, you don't see this often in this sport. And his explanation was, I took something I shouldn't have, that I wasn't aware that I wasn't completely aware I shouldn't have, to get back. Well, this is a player that was so impacted by all of his injuries.

I'm sure many people in our audience that kind of tangentially follow the sport know that generally when we invoke Aaron Echblad's name, months ago it was about frustration. This guy is making bad mistakes, he can't keep up, he's a shell of himself. And this year all that went away. And he was starting to be healthy. And you couldn't ignore the correlation between,

okay, maybe it's just fitness, but now you have this element thrown into it, and you start wondering, well, I guess my eyes weren't lying to me. He was a different player player and this is why. Struggling to find the origin, but it is British, originally, British slang. Okay, so thank you.

We're further along than we were moments ago. I think the other thing I think of when I think of a lot of these athletes who have been using PEDs for a long time is that a lot of these things we know are really bad for you in the longterm. And so it sort of makes me sad because there's so much pressure to obviously perform and to like maximize your prime as an athlete

and your earning potential that like you understand like what they're putting their bodies through and that it's, it is something that like most of our bodies wouldn't be able to withstand. And so it's very like, it's sad sometimes to think about too much because it's like something that as fans like we're just being entertained. We're like, stop making that stupid decision,

you dumb hockey player, but internally and physically, he's probably going through an insane amount of pressure. There was a wedding of one of the Florida Panthers when they had lost to the Vegas Golden Knights in the Stanley Cup final, and people were in neck braces, people were on crutches. Everyone looked like they were in a military hospital.

Can you guys find me that? Because Roy is sitting here smiling at the idea of that's what it cost to win the championship. That brought a- In that sport? Didn't Ekblad play with a broken bone in his leg? Yes. I think he played with a broken bone in his leg.

And I saw those photos, and I was happy with the season. Panthers were the last seed to get into the playoffs, lucky to get into the playoffs, and went on this majestic run. And I saw those photos, I'm like, man, is that worth it? There were like a half dozen people that shouldn't have been out, they should have been on bed rest.

But you, I think you constantly, in your analysis of sports around here, more than anybody else, you're the one who says, oh, he was dinged up, or you've got to- They do that, lower body injury, famously. No, I know, you've got to play through that, whatever that is. Hockey fans love to tell you

how tough their favorite players are. It's not just Mike. Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, Matthew Kachuck was in a serious car accident on the ice, a broken collarbone, he left the game, he came back and had a game winning assist in that game before he couldn't get out of bed the following day. But do you understand if you ask them to care that much, then you can't be that upset when they care so much that they also use the healing agents that are on the line?

I think you can be upset because no one else gets caught. You're not upset that you're cheating, you're upset that they're dumb. I think that that's where we are with some of this stuff. because no one else gets caught. Yeah. You're not upset that you're cheating. You're upset that they're dumb. I think that that's where we are with some of this stuff. Also, outside of Florida, I don't think anyone cares about air neck bled. No, but I'm just talking. Opposing fans do.

Look, but I'm bringing it up just, well, you care about the Bills. You care about the Bills, and you don't care about that controversy over there. That's just football. I don't know how many people are getting up for Larry Ogunjoby. It's just rare that you see two of them announced simultaneously.

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He did the thing again. Called them a bunch of peas and bees and then boom! Five unanswered. You win the division. This is the Don LeBattar Show with the Stugarts. Let me bring up somebody that people do care about here because I wanted to ask you guys, I don't know what's the truest thing now because of the amount of lying that there is around business this time of year. It's Shador Sanders that I want to talk about but just to close the loop on that previous topic what do you think will happen if I just go over a world of the world's most competitive people and just drop money down there and make them fight over it like they're gonna use science that the amount of money and

pressure that we're talking about in these economies that feed families is what funds sports the desperation of all that it's what we're watching Shador Sanders goes into the draft and I don't know what's real or true about he's dropping that his arrogance has put off executives and that Shador Sanders may and I I saw this recently, fall right out of the first round, which kind of floored me because there aren't very many good quarterbacks in this draft and the the bottom end of this first round is not very strong. What's the recent on Shador Sanders because I want to talk about

confidence at that position and I want to talk about belief and and and I'm curious what's happening that might be considered real around Shador Sanders. Well I know that that Lewis Riddick came out and said what's happening to Shador Sanders is unfair because people are slandering his name and a lot of this is people reading tea leaves hearing whispers and talk show hosts running with this thing. But quite honestly, I think what's happening mostly is he has a very weak arm.

If he were in the league right now, and he were a starter in the league, I've read people surmise that he'd be number 30, 31, possibly 32 in terms of arm strength. And maybe he shouldn't have been looked at. If this were maybe next year's quarterback class, he wouldn't be discussed as a first round draft pick. Maybe he's being discussed as a first round draft pick

because it's a hugely important position. And this year, outside of Cam Ward, there really isn't consensus on who can be a franchise changing guy. Isn't this what you want if you're Sanders? Okay, I'm going to a better team now. Like he's projecting you go to the Steelers I'm seeing here at 21.

I'm just saying, like, I get it. You wanna be a top overall pick, but the lower you get in the first round, you get better teams. I think he can spin it into, this is a better spot for me, but no, it's definitely not what he wanted, because I think before his bowl game,

he came out with cleats that had the Giants logo and the Raiders logo. While the draft order was not yet locked in, these were teams that were talked about as potentially having the number one pick. It's not going the way that he wanted. If you're a team that wants him, this is what you want to have.

And because you want him to fall to you, because he just kind of starts plummeting. But no, Shadour is not hoping that he falls out of the first round by any means, just because he might end up on a better team. Just because he's costing himself money. I'm just saying, does he say, okay, maybe this is not what I wanted,

but this could work out for him? Well, also the better teams all have quarterbacks, right? So he wants to go to a situation where he's gonna play or there's a playing plan in place for him. Not just, he doesn't wanna be a backup on the Chiefs. I think in December he was he certainly had better odds in Cain Ward to be the number one pick. He was like a slight dog to not be the number one overall draft pick and in the months that have followed as he's going through this process of people inspect his character a little bit more and also his actual skill set,

it's not going the way that he wants. Well, those are two different things and I wanna talk about both of them because when you throw out the metric, cause it's not something that we've had measured, but weak arm, give me all the guys in the NFL that you think have weak arms who are starters, where you're just watching.

Like when I think weak arm, you gotta be i think we call me got to be drew breeze and you have to be that kind of actual to work or you're you're just coughing i'm i'm okay thank you okay allergies uh... there aren't many that you would look at and say that arms not strong enough but when it comes to should or that is something that to the i i think people can look and see those outs have a little of a little parabola in them. They're not quite Justin Herbert throws, but I want to talk about the other thing which is what was coming out of the Scouting

Combine was attitude stuff, was arrogance stuff, was how he was interviewing. Is that shocking? No. You can understand, well, we all understand where it comes from, right? And his dad is his biggest supporter. And he's done nothing. I think, didn't he say, hey, let's go to this rap concert and support my son? He's always been in a bubble where

he's playing the most important position for his dad. And everybody has to ingratiate themselves to the head coach. It's a byproduct of these environments that he's been put in. I'm not saying that it's surprising. I'm saying that I would think that if I put all of these factors in play, that usually in hypothetical athlete X, they're things we would like. Do you want your quarterback to have belief? Do you, you want your quarterback to come from an upbringing of a professional athlete

who knows what it takes to have the correct belief? Do you when parenting is there something that you can give your child? That's better than the support that creates belief like is there anything? Outside of love what can a parent give to a child? Maybe we say discipline or something else But what's stronger than giving your child belief? Maybe we say discipline or something else, but what's stronger than giving your child belief? Deion Sanders is one of the most confident people

in the history of sports and one of the most interesting athletes ever. That he would give his son a quarterback belief at the position, why would that be off-putting? It's fine, but if you're a team looking for a quarterback, you want the parents who have given your quarterback a good arm. And we can find the belief down the road.

It's a tough data point. Famously in the movie Draft Day, Kevin Costner makes a decision because like no one showed up to the quarterback's birthday and he's like, well, that's a big red flag. I mean, it could be because all the people that had a problem with Shador ended up leaving the program. Trust me, you can Google it. There have been plenty of people that have their opinions about how Deion Sanders runs his program that didn't like it and had things to say. But I could say from watching a lot of Colorado

football last year, the teammates love Shador. So how is this actually rubbing his team? I understand where there's that concern, but in terms of rah rah leader guy, Shador seems very supportive of his teammates and the optics are his teammates love him. When you talk weak arm, we can say that that but it didn't feel like anybody was saying that when through the consensus of the last half of the season he was going to be a top five pick. It's also not a popular thing to say as he's literally winning overtime games. We're sending games into overtime with 40 yard passes that do tend to hang in the air. But if you think about a lot of Travis Hunter's highlights, it's a lot of individual athleticism. It was hard to know what the real data there was because all season long, it almost felt like

the offensive identity for Colorado was, we're getting one of these guys a Heisman. We're just gonna spam the math. You guys are parents, belief, giving your child belief. The support that makes a child have confidence or believe. Like where would it rank on how high on the list of things that you wanna do as a parent? I think right behind making sure your son's

the executive producer of his friend's sports show. I mean, there could be a rational belief. We know that, that's a genetic trait, right? That Shador's confidence in himself has to come from his father, some way, right? Biologically speaking. But he's also plenty talented. I will support my daughter. I will go to all of her events. I've also watched her play soccer. I'm not going to fill her head with these dreams of her playing for the U.S. women's national team. If anything, I'm going to take her out of soccer and realize

this is not her you're calling, babe. I want my children to believe in myself, but that has nothing to do with what the NFL needs at the position. Believing in yourself is great. You could also be not that great. I'm not saying that that's Shador, but what they care about is talent and arm strength and all of that.

They're not handing out Nobel prizes. They're trying to win Lombardi trophies. Who cares if you believe in yourself? Everyone's full of walk-ons, every college is full of walk-ons that believed in themselves that just weren't good enough. The reason I say, I mean, it's not who cares, it's being a knock.

You're saying weak arm strength, the reports were he bombed the interviews and his stock dropped from the scouting combine because the executives thought he was arrogant. So it's not that belief. Relative to his talent. Because there's a balance to it.

Confidence becomes arrogance when you don't have any, like you have to be a little humble too. You can be confident, but you don't wanna be a dick. If you're good enough, you can look past it. This weekend, I don't know why, but this weekend I was watching highlights of Baker Mayfield when he was at Oklahoma. Oh, you were on that outgo too?

Yeah, and he was going back. When they refused to shake his hand? Yeah, they didn't shake his hand, and he was talking the entire game. He grabbed his crotch. He looked at the other team. He was screaming at them the entire game. I think it was against Kansas,

and the broadcasters were like, oh, the NFL scouts, they're not gonna like that one. They're not gonna like that in their locker room. That's probably gonna impact him. Number one pick. So if you're good enough, you can look past all of the arrogance. It's just a matter of if the measurables aren't there

and they don't think that his arm is strong enough, they're not gonna put up with it as much. Teams love that confidence. Cam Ward has plenty of that confidence. It's when do you turn it off? When do you know that, oh, I should be interviewing right now, not giving off cocky, arrogant quarterback. And there's something clearly happening in these interviews

where his personality is rubbing those executives the wrong way. Cam has, if you ever see Cam, they work out together. Cam comes off as the more confident guy whenever they're paired with one another. But through the evaluation process, he's also a good team guy in a more conventional sense. I mean, it's not good for a sports radio show,

but it's all stupid, right? It doesn't matter how confident you are or how good your ability is. The NFL draft ends up being a crapshoot anyways. We were talking about it with Laramy Tunsell last week and how people, oh my God, we don't know what to do here, and then he ends up falling, and then he ends up being a multi-time Pro pro bowler. So like, Shador can fall,

and he's either gonna work out or he's not gonna work out. And he's gonna work out whether he's the number seven pick or he's not gonna work out if he's a seven pick or work out as a 28th pick or not work out as a 28th pick. Doesn't really matter all that much. Yeah, we could do that about all of sports. Hey friends, it's Jarobar here, and I'm here to tell you all about Boost Mobile,

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Don LeBataard. Well, Charlie sent, uh, Charlie had this, Charlie as far as I know, so just Charlie's title in my phone. Are you gonna say anything? Stugats! Uh, how, how familiar were you at the time with Chewbacca? Like how, your upbringing had, had, had, had how much Chewbacca in it? This is the Don Lebatard Show with the Stoogats. Can you get me Laramie Tunsell please and what he's been traded for in the entirety of his career?

All of it. What Laramie Tunsell has brought back, and I wanted to talk because Micah Parsons, when Laramie Tunsell was traded to the commanders, put up a tweet saying WTF, because the commanders keep getting stronger. And what's happening in that division is that the commanders and the Eagles

have gotten so far out in head of the Giants and Cowboys that the only time we talk about the Cowboys is when Demarcus Lawrence and Micah Parsons are going back and forth with each other. You guys do realize that Micah Parsons right now in Dallas through play and through talk is the biggest star they have. Dak Prescott's famous. Man, the quarterback of the Dallas Cowboys,

it's also always talked about on. But not the personality to be controversial in the modern age and to keep getting into fights that keep his name out there. Micah Parsons is developing a temperament as a star, whether you want to say Dak Prescott or C.D. Lamb or bigger stars, I'm telling you, this player at this position through excellence is getting a notoriety in fame for his mouth

and he cares about selling it because the back-and-forth with the marcus lauren's is the marcus lauren's is leaving the cowboys and he is saying watch while going to seattle i knew i was never going to win a super bowl in dallas michael parsons comes back in him saying that some clown shit and laurence comes back at him if you spent more time winning instead of tweeting thinking about winning more than tweeting whatever it is they said just

the back and forth is this is what the cowboys are now and michael parsons uh... people have talked about this with the cowboys jerry jones is totally fine with the spectacle in the noise and and when he brings attention to a product that isn't that good in the name of marketing. But the fans don't like it so much when it's their star player, Micah Parsons, and he's going back and forth with everybody because the beef makes Micah Parsons more famous and he's not afraid of the noise. Nor is he afraid of the smoke. Like he's go, he'll go after anybody. He is and it's grating. It's gr grading when they're not winning. And I know plenty of Cowboys fans

that are rubbed the wrong way by how Micah Parsons does, you know, Twitch streams and podcasts. And when they're not getting the results that they want on the field, they start turning on everybody over there. But I do think Dak Prescott is a bigger star than him just because I observed on mute the A block of first take for a year and a half. Okay, and that's more symbolic than it is interesting, right, because in terms of personality or whatever it is that, well, but I mean, just. Michael Parsons wants to be thought of

as one of those personalities, where Dak Prescott almost laments his celebrity publicly. You're not allowed to be quite that at quarterback. We were talking before about Shador Sanders and whether or not your quarterback can be a dick, for lack of a better word. And I just don't think it matters. You'd like your teammates to like you.

And it looks like Baker Mayfield's teammates. He finally got to a spot where his teammates love him. But yeah, his act wore thin in Cleveland when they weren't producing. Well, he got pushed out of there. Somebody who somehow straddles the line on confidence without being a dick publicly is Joe Burrow. And Joe Burrow now has, after publicly campaigning for this,

this part was interesting to me because I think we all know watching Cincinnati play last year that their offense was good enough to win the Super Bowl. But their defense was an atrocity. and now what they've done is they've made T Higgins the second highest paid number two receiver and Jamar Chase the highest paid receiver and if you're gonna spend and this was after Joe Burroughs spent all of last season in press conferences politicking for them to sign T Higgins. Who? He doesn't actually need. He does not need those two receivers. Now Trey Hendrickson has asked for a trade they can't afford the one defensive

player that they had. What do you do if you're the Cincinnati Bengals, your quarterback wants something, your quarterback says something publicly, but it's economically irresponsible to reward him because you saw what their team was by blueprint last year and while it'd be nice for their offense to be good and for him to be happy, they clearly need monster money spent on the defense. That was a nowhere franchise until Joe Burrow got there. They made it to a Super Bowl and they made it to an AFC Championship game. I don't really have many data points of Joe Burrow being elite when he's not surrounded by multiple world-class receivers. That's not a knock on Joe Burrow. I believe Joe Burrow to be great

but I also know what he had in college and what he's had in the pros and anytime they're good with the exception of last year they have two really good receivers at least to help Joe Burrow take them. I mean T Higgins was hurt some last year. And they didn't and they didn't make the playoffs. They were good at offense all year. Mike what I'm saying to you just in the fiscal responsibility of the age okay this is what I'm asking you about the Bengals laughing stock and blueprint. Their offensive and defensive lines need monster help after you just saw in the Super Bowl what happens when

you have a great offensive and defensive line if I give you any number two receiver Joe burrow and a healthy Jamar chase are gonna make a number two receiver be value T Higgins is great that ain't value when you have to pay your number two more than anyone in the league and you're trying to win in the margins of money. I don't disagree. If I'm paying a quarterback that much money, I'd like to think that like Patrick Mahomes, we can afford to lose even a Tyree Kill. Ideally, if I'm paying my quarterback that much money, I can afford to lose Jamar Chase. However, I'm the Cincinnati Bengals. I never spend money. I have a unicorn at quarterback that has done the impossible, seemingly, and it's dragged my franchise from having the number,

well, a top pick. He went number one. So a number one overall pick to a team that was perennially in the Super Bowl conversation. I trust a quarterback. What do you want here? What do you want us to do? We've addressed the defense by bringing in Al Golden.

I don't think it's enough to overcome Luz and Hendrickson and Hubbard, but they're going to have to change their business model because of the quarterback contract that they gave. And he feels strongly enough that I need T Higgins to be what you need me to be. The question I need to ask you guys about this is do you have to cave, if you're the Bengals, when your quarterback has gone public with putting pressure on your organization to bring back your number two so that your two receivers can be happy when I don't believe that if Joe Burrow is what everyone tells me he is and what I believe him to be that he would have any trouble making someone else a very good number two because

that's what I'm paying him for. That's what I'm asking. Joe Burrow could apply the pressure on guys like Hendrickson. Like he could have. He chose not to. No he did it but he did it with Higgins and he did it saying I'll restructure my own money to get him here. Like he made his choice and the organization didn't seem like it had a choice after that. They don't. But no, but I'm saying they do. I'm saying they do. Okay, it's weird. Last week you were like,

Miles Garrett should hold this franchise hostage and have as much power as possible. Now you're going on the other way around it, like, screw you, Joe Burrow. One of them is a loser that is still a loser and is only relevant because Miles Garrett is there. The other one is a different situation where they've been a loser, but you now have expectations for them

because they have Joe Burrow. Well, in good faith. I also think that you're calling for a power that historically just doesn't exist in the NFL. NFL players have never had this power that you were projecting onto Miles Garrett. It's just not the power dynamic of their contracts. They have very little leverage.

They can't do what NBA teams are often faced with when it comes to star players doing that. But I defer to self-recognition that I'm a loser franchise and I've always been one, except for when Joe Burrow is here. And what Joe Burrow tells me he needs, I'm going to get for Joe Burrow because that's usually worked out for us. Okay, well they did that with Aaron Rodgers and now the story is that and somebody helped me with the reported details on this because it went from Giants to Pittsburgh to now Minnesota where the value of this position is such that they can actually end up calling some of the shots on your organization whether it's against your organization's will or not.

What's true and not true about Aaron Rogers being interested in Minnesota Which he obviously would be and Minnesota possibly being interested in Aaron Rogers So a couple days ago it seemed like Adam Schefter was very flustered and putting it all on Aaron Rogers just pick are you gonna play or not? It's a Giants or it's a Steelers. Are you gonna pick or not and Rogers waited it out and the most recent reporting is his top choice is Minnesota. But it's kind of weird because it takes two to tango, and all the framing around the reporting of Aaron Rodgers and his decision, his preference being Minnesota,

is if they want him to. So now it's another thing that we're waiting on to figure out when it comes to Aaron Rodgers. It seems as though it's been pretty much identified that Aaron Rodgers would like to play and play for the Minnesota Vikings. That is his top choice. Now he's kind of waiting for Minnesota to reciprocate. Wouldn't that be anyone's top choice? If you see Sam Darnold resurrected there because of some of the best skill position players, the combination of them that you will see in the league, isn't that the choice that

any, isn't that the wisest choice for him? No doubt. It's probably the smartest public move that he's made in quite some time. I think, and you're not overly threatened by the young quarterback because the young quarterback has to show that his body can even hold up so yeah it's a great place for him absolutely a hundred I get it I think he's doing the smart thing I would be a little concerned as to well I'm just really gonna do the Brett Farve thing whole pass I'm just gonna do the whole thing and I'm gonna play Green Bay I'm gonna

play my replacement I'm gonna do that whole thing, really. I'm okay. It's the best spot for him though. Like what the choices are those three and only those three. Jessica, are you relieved to hear that you might not get stuck with him at quarterback in Pittsburgh? It's a very unfortunate situation to be a Steelers fan right now because no matter what, like you just gotta accept they're not gonna be, it's gonna be bad.

It's gonna be bad. It's gonna be bad. It's gonna be bad It's gonna be bad door, but would you rather have the headache of? Aaron Rodgers and how annoying he is. I don't know. I mean most likely not I know it's gonna be bad You know, that's it. You're you're you just are portending doom Yes, I mean they'll still win nine games, but