The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - Hour 1: Tony's Hard Out (feat. Spice Adams)

Episode Date: December 4, 2025

"WE HAVE TO WRAP, TONY." Welcome to one of the more unhinged moments in the modern history of The Dan Le Batard Show. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is the Dan Levitar show with the Stucats podcast. We needed to get an expert on to talk about the question that plagued us for 24 hours from yesterday, which is if a piece of pizza walked, would it walk? If it walked upright, not slithered across the floor on all fours, but if it walked on two legs, would the crust be at the bottom or the top? So we went to get Spice Adams, who is here on behalf of Red Baron pizza, so that we can get some expertise on this subject. And we now welcome in the former NFL player. He's a comedian.

He's a host. He's an entertainer. And we ask him the question, what is your vote here? Thank you for joining us, Spice. What is your vote on how a piece of pizza walks? Is the crust at the top or at the bottom? How it walks? If it had two legs.

It's a good question. We're painting an odd picture. It is a good question for you to ask. I appreciate that you interrogate me that way. But, yes, that is the question I am asking you. If it walked on ostensibly two legs, like a human being. Has to be the weirdest question he's ever had to start an interview. Upright, you think.

But it's why we're having him on. On behalf of Red Baron Pizza, he is here as an expert. It's the reason we're having him. So answer the damn question, Spice. On the bottom. Everybody knows that. But what do you consider the bottom? The crust or the pointy end?

The crust goes on the bottom, he's saying? The pointy end. Yeah, thank you. All right, so it's settled. Cool. I'm sorry that we frustrated you. I mean, that's how I would picture it, walking. Although humans, slender point is at the top.

We didn't discuss that. You know what? Put it on the pole. You don't really do leg day. Put it on the poll at Levitard show. Is the bottom of the pizza the pointy end or the crust? because I thought the crust was the bottom end of the pizza. That's how I was thinking of...

Do you eat it backwards? No, but I was just thinking... I get what you're saying, but I never considered it before this moment. Do you even eat pizza, damn? Y'all must argue all the time. It's an important conversation. It is. I'm glad we're having it.

I also wanted to talk some football with him, but before I do that, I wanted to talk a little bit about your assent into entertainment. How did you get involved with Shaquille O'Neal? Where and when did you know that you wanted to be something in entertainment beyond being a football player? Well, this entertainment has kind of been what I've been doing my whole life. You know, I don't have any brothers and sisters, so I always wanted to entertain people, so they always want to come back over to my house. And then by the time I turned 14, I've been this same size and height since I was 12.

When I was 12, I was 29 pounds. And so I looked like a grown man. My mom took me to a little league practice and they thought I was one of the coaches. They said, you know, just for just for fun, have them get on the scale. And then I was, I was 290 at 12. So I've been right, right. So when I turned 14, my mom made me play football and I've been playing football ever since. But when I retired, I felt like, man, what am I going to do now?

And I just kind of gravitated towards entertainment because that's all I've been doing my whole life. So everything all worked out. And it's been a great ride, man. I had a lot of fun, but I like to shout out all my teammates, man, who dared me into doing it, man. They was like, man, go out there, man. We see how funny you are in the locker room, but nobody else really get a chance to do it.

So shout out to Earl Bennett, shout out to Chris Harris, because they were the main ones. We're like, man, you need to get on this social media stuff. You built for it. But all I wanted to do was play football and have my fingers look like this. Yeah, I was just noticing his fingers, Dan. How did that happen?

No, no, wait a minute. I'm throwing up the west side, and I ain't even really doing this. Like, I'm not, like, this is just how my fingers are. I can't put my fingers on the flat surface. They all just pop right up from grabbing all these years. You say how did that happen as that is something that football players just laugh about, right? The dislocated finger, the idea that you would catch your finger between helmets. You guys are built differently than the rest of us, right?

You can't pull change out of a place. What are some of the things you can't do because of what football has done to your hands? Like get out of bed, maybe? Well, your hands. I wasn't talking about the entirety of your body. I'm just talking about your hands because people don't understand what it takes to do what it is you do and what the sacrifice is. Yeah, this is just kind of what you sign up for, man. That's how you can tell if somebody plays defensive line or not.

You can just look at their fingers. but this is this is what you signed up for man and you know sometimes it's hard to put on gloves because all your fingers are like have you seen tori holt's fingers yeah like his fingers it's a 90 degree angle like they're getting on like all his fingers look like they're getting lost they can't be brian baldingers like they're just doing like this like they're all going different I don't know how he put gloves on his job is to catch footballs and his pinky finger is a 90 degree angle it's it looks like it like Anthony Muño's fingers just like this I thought oh Oh, I thought Baldinger was the standard there in terms of weird fingers.

I didn't think that wide receivers had that problem, though. I thought it was interior linemen more than wide receivers. Catch a ball from Kurt Warner, Dana? We're pulling up. That's how you know he catches with his hands. Those are Torrey Holt's hands. We're showing the audience Tori Holt's hands right now. Fingers are ridiculous.

I'm telling them they all look like they're getting lost. I want to ask you a handful of football questions about what you presently see happening in the league. when you see Ben Rothlisberger throwing out the idea that Mike Tomlin should leave the Steelers to go coach Penn State, your alma mater. Your alma mater is in disarray because James Franklin has left and took the recruiting class with him. Yeah. Wow. I did it. Rothlessberger said that. Yeah. That's a, you know, as much as I would love to see that, I love Terry Smith. I think they should just hire Terry Smith. I mean, he's played there. His dad. played there like he's a legacy and he understands everything there is to know about Penn State football he's passionate about it and he's took a team that was they they didn't know where they were gonna go next they were lost he took a team that had someone take their leader from them and he got them to get to a bowl game he got them to get that fire again he's speaking to these kids parents to let them know like hey they're still in good hands even even though we fire Coach Franklin, but I'm here. So he has these players, like, in his corner, and they love him.

And he has these guys on fire right now. So why not hire from within and hire someone who understands Penn State tradition? So I say to keep Terry Smith. Spice, you're a very famous meme where you're in the yellow jacket rubbing your hands together, you know, crooked fingers, behind the tree. when did you realize, whoa, like, this is a really famous meme now? I knew it was famous when I saw what I was looking at. I was looking at a red beer and pizza.

This red beer and pizza, right? You've been asked this question on this story before. This is bullshit. This is his segue into promoting the pizza. I was looking at this red beer pizza. That's not true in any way. He's totally lying right now. And guess what?

If y'all into fantasy football league, y'all could get this humble pie. Y'all can get this humble pie at red bear. dot com for it slash humble pie between now and December 15th. If you lose and fantasy football league, you ain't got to worry about sprinting the marathon and doing all that crazy stuff. Just eat you some humble pie, man. Got the Red Bear Carolina Reaper sauce on there. Got the spicy mozzarella ghost pepper cheese.

It got cayenne pepper on the pepperoni, habanero, jalapeno, and habanero flakes all over the pizza. That's what I was looking at behind the tree like this. Seameless. Spice, that is nonsense. what you just did, you just turned on the promotional... The man's an entertainer, Dan. You turned on... I didn't even notice.

What do you do? The promotional was... I was just answering your question. That was an ad? I'm gonna get a humble pie. I don't even think that pizza was invented. Please know. On the redbearer.com slash humble pie.

Now in December 15, you can do that. Get out of here. That pizza was not invented when you did that. Get out of here. I don't believe you. And when I say, get out of here, I don't mean it sort of figuratively. I'm telling you leave. You have to go.

We have to rap, Tony. You have to go. Get out of here. Everyone. You, that ladies, that... Tony, we got to go. Get out of here. Who is that person

talking to me, yelling? We got to go. We got to go, Tony. It's a hard out, Tony. Tony, it's a hard out. Your real name is Tony. Take a bite of the pizza. Did you see what Spice just did to me?

Spice just... We got to bring the whole thing down. That pizza does look good though. Spice, we got a contrivance. We heard you the first three times. The first three times, we got a wrap. We got a rap. There's an urgency here.

There's end zoom. It's end zoom. Get out of here. And Zoom. And the Zoom. Spice has to go. Get Tony out of here. Everybody out of here.

Tony, out of here. Rap, rap. They call him the rapper. That was total unequivocal bullshit. What just happened at the end? What was that song? That lady get on our air. I wanted to ask him about the Great American Baking Show.

Jeremy wanted some advice on how to be a game show host. That's all I want in my life. He had to get his plug in. He knew he had a hard out. I didn't know he had a heart out. I didn't know he had a heart out. Tony didn't know he had a hard out. You really mess that one up, Tony.

That woman just started screaming at us. And it's a shame. I could have talked to that guy forever. Our chemistry was incredible. How is it that that person ended up live on air with us? I thought it was David Samson, like a drop of David Samson's day. We got to rap, Tony. I was like, where is he?

They're on the Zoom listening and they mic themselves. That used to happen when we were on the radio. I used to get a phone call on the other guest line. Like, yeah, yeah, I'm trying to sell. Sometimes it will be on the air. Sometimes, yeah, yeah. But how is it? First time I'm on Zoom.

Okay, let me explain something to Red Baron and that lady. I don't like that lady. Your time constraints cannot be so 10 minutes that you're yelling at me in the middle of what it is we're talking about out here and saying we got a rap Tony in the middle of the program that we're doing. And stop trying to break up with me.

We broke up with you first. The tie goes to Dan. He said, get out of here well before they said we got to wrap, Tony. And the reason I said... Oh, he just figured it out. I know who Tony is. I figured it out. Spice Adam's name is Anthony.

Yes. Oh. Oh, my God. I mean, I cracked that code. See more and also. His name's Tony, Dan. Got by me. I thought you were talking to him.

I'm still angry about what Tony did does there. where Zaz asked a legitimate question about the meme and he went straight into his promotion because he knew he had a minute left before Tony had a heart out and that woman started yelling at everyone in our audience including Tony. Specifically me. I was like, I didn't even say anything.

What do you want me to do? She wasn't talking to him. His name is Tony. A couple of Tony's cutting it up. We need to make sure that we talk to the good people at Red Baron and never let them do that again to us. I like Red Baron, Dan. I like Red Baron a lot. It's a good frozen pie.

Yeah. I don't know about that. The humble pie. The roast pepper sauce. That makes me chuckle a little bit. That was good for Red Baron though. Like that's... You were saying, Tony, that you like Red Baron, at least in part because as it relates to pizza that's easy to make for yourself, it's extra doughy.

That you've got some... That it's not flimsy with its doiness. It's... You like it. No, but sometimes the Red Baron, they got the thin cut. No, I like the thick. Oh, you like the thick. I like the thick.

I like the thick. thin cut. It's like a very, like, not cracker, but very, like, very tough, very crispy. I like that. I like it thick with two Cs. We have to wrap. How does that not sound like David Samson? We have to wrap. Well, it does sound like David Samson, but I thought it was his. This might be a guy. I also thought it was an old woman, though. I'm, I feel good about that. Well, do you feel good about it being an old woman or an old man? We have to rap. Yeah, to me, that sounds like a woman. I think it's a man.

We have to rap. Yeah, I think it's a man. We have to rap. it's it's an aggressive I think we should stay in these waters it's an aggressive well look it already got to awkward we might as well stay here it's a specialty of ours I've got some random person yelling at Tony that we didn't know

what's his name I've been referring to him as spicy the entire time I didn't know he was Tony I thought she was or he was yelling at colladioed and and I didn't know where the voice came from I also didn't know as an added bonus whether it was just in my ear or everybody was hearing it like I just thought

because I've got a bit of air traffic control system in my ear where I've got 17 different voices and then you know what my reaction is there should never happen on our show my reactions are who the hell is that you almost screamed at Lewis I saw it you almost did it felt like a Lewis mistake I'm not a lie when it was happening I didn't know whether it was

private whether it was public I didn't know whether it was this Tony I didn't know the Spice was named Tony I didn't know we were out of time I didn't know there were time limits with Spice Adams nobody informed me of anything what is the great urgency was Spice that he's got to get out of here After exactly nine minutes with such urgency that he crams in his promotion and furthermore, and I don't like this part either, turns on the energy the moment it is time to just chill pizza. And I'll pull back the curtain.

He was early. He was 10 minutes early. This was a 10.30 Eastern hit. We have to wrap. You have to rap for who? Us? We have to rap. I would like to have a conversation with the people who gave us.

Vice Adams, in which I explained to them, and I'm going to try and keep my hostility down, you didn't let me ask about the Great American Baking Show. You didn't tell me that I had a limit on my time. You got him out after nine minutes, and the only thing that he did at the end that had energy was shill pizza. And that's bullshit. That Penn State answer, though. He was surprised by that. I was breaking news.

The interim was three and three. That's why. We have to wrap. really rallied those troops. I feel good that that's an old woman. You're sure because I'm not... We have to wrap. And put it on the poll as well.

Does David Samson sound like an old woman? We have to rap. It does sound like David Samson. I can't dispute. We have to rap. I thought it was in my headset. We have to rap Tony. And I'm listening to him like, okay, what do you want me to do about it?

Like, Dan's doing the interview. Dan seems like he's pretty well on his way to kicking him out. I hear you have to rap. I don't know. If I was listening to that interview right there, I would think... I think that Tony was the point person. Have you heard of Goldbelly? It's this amazing site that I personally order from all the time.

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Stugats. Stugats. Every cup game. And at what? This is the Dan Lebatar show with the Stugats. I want to backtrack here for a second on something that we were talking about as it related to Chris Paul because there's been some. sound I've been wanting to get to since Monday that I've not been able to get to, which is since Pablo Torre ruined the Clippers. There is not a whole lot of interesting going on around

the Clippers that is positive. It's mostly negative. And we have sound here of Clippers announcers during a game, okay? They do not talk about the game. You guys tell me if you know what it is that's going on in the game. Their job is to talk about the action in the game. But I think they are in this Lou Riddick chuckle fuck situation where the Pittsburgh Miami game was so bad that they end up at the end

just doing Mike Ryan's propaganda because the game wasn't close and they just had to talk about other things and a fine thing to talk about would be the debate the sports debate around the University of Miami. These guys, these Clippers, broadcasters, just get into some debate about some trivia question. We don't even have the trivia question. They're reacting

to some previous trivia question. And they go about three minutes, hardly even referencing the game at all. Give me the question. Nope. Because I'll tell you where it's off. Okay. Would it be Mr.

Main event? That was his big name. You get it? No, you don't. I do get it. Why? You could go one of two ways. Boxing had a main event.

Also, a little thing called the WWF. There are players running back and forth that they're not paying. See, that's what I'm saying. See, that now you want to twist my question. It was a play on words. No, no, no. I just asked you. So give me the question.

No, I'm not. That's what I'm waiting on. Give me the question. I forgot it. Sorry. It's out of my goodness. Because your premise is inaccurate. And that's the whole reason that it threw off by equilibrium.

So you just can't say you didn't know if you were wrong. Asked me the question. I don't know how I asked it. Just give me the topic. It was name. It was a trio of a trio. A trio. Right?

Family members. difference everything yeah yeah three i said three and that's why the whole thing is erroneous why it's three for flying controls i'm gonna let you marinate in this for just a moment so you said trio and you kept going duo you kept going duo well no no you kept you kept i said i said due because the answer isn't the berries you have rickberry john berry our favorite berry our favorite berry breeder Barry and then the youngest brother Drew Barry I said same team oh yeah so that's why it was demands that's why please don't know no no you didn't I said they played for the same team

that's the court for three that's the first game maxed that's what threw you all because you had duo but you didn't have trio for the same team just admit that's So, I'm going to put a button on this. You were going to say the four barriers that played in the league, right? I asked you specifically for the same team or franchise. I mean, we got to take it. Maybe we're not going to roll it. So remember that when one of your boys has something and they use it.

Why do we put a button on it? things? Why is there a button put on things? I don't think we do. We put a bow on it. Put a pin in it? Is it a pin? So he said, but he did say, I'm going to put a button on this. Maybe just a button. You put a bow when you're done with it. You button it up. You put a pin if you're just like not done yet. You got to go back to it. A pin is, I want to continue. That's also when you sent someone in your location. He meant bow. So a pin is like a bookmark. Putting a pin in it is something you come back to. Putting a bow on it is something that's finished. But what happens when you put a button on it. He meant Bo. Okay. Close it. So, but is there not a button put on it? There's not, it's just, he might have

meant Bo. I don't know what he meant because they described no part of the game. I'm hoping that that was radio. I think there were like nine three-pointers made while they were arguing about that. To put a button on it comes from the theater world where it means to add a final touch to a scene or provide closure, a sense of completion. It's been used since at least the 1930s. I don't believe it. Okay, but that doesn't really explain. Like, while I know what it means to put a button on something, and he did use it correctly. So on brand for Jeremy with that correction. Well, it wasn't correction.

He was trying to add, but all he did was explain something I already knew. I want to know why the button was put on it. So is the button the last thing that gets put on a costume? Is it the final? I'm on it. Yeah, I just was curious about that. Thank you. I appreciate you moving us off of that.

We had a wrap. We had a wrap, Dan. We got a wrap. We were going to stay on that sound longer than they'd be. We got a rap, Tony. We got a rap. It's like, what the hell did I do? I am going.

We have to wrap. I want you guys to get for me, okay? Everyone involved with marketing at Red Baron Pizza so that I can have a conversation with them after the show to explain to me how it is that they thought that that was the way to handle that situation. We have to wrap. It's a live show. Let me just go on the intercom here and tell someone named Tony. which we learned with spice, it's time to wrap. I think it bothers me.

I hate that. We are getting to the bucket here, the Dentech bucket. I will remind everybody to put their mouthpieces in, and I will remind everybody listening to this, that if you have any headaches in the morning, if you do not know that you're grinding your teeth while you sleep at night, Dentec is a way to alleviate that.

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at Dentec.com. Jeremy, what did you pick there? So I never thought that I would have a team playing Cleveland Browns that I want to put back. But this is the Titan, so I'm putting it back. We have to wrap. They are four and a half point

underdog at Cleveland. By the way, one of the helmets or some of the helmets that you'd like, Carolina, the Giants, New England, and San Francisco are on a buy. You pick the Colts. The Colts are at the Jags. They're two and a half point favorite at the Jags.

I'll take it. Jags are first favorite, Dan. The Jigs. Colts favorite on the road. The money does not believe in the Jags because they continue to beat underdogs in games at home, even though they've got an 8 and 4 record. You know the Colts haven't won in Jacksonville since 2014?

I did not know that. You know who the quarterbacks were? Andrew Luck and Chad Henney. I know Spiro Didish was there for it. We have to wrap. Uh, New York Giants. That sounds bad. No, I think they're on a buy.

Ooh. Yeah, Dan said they're on a bar. The Giants got a buy. Congratulations. He just put that back. No one is happy for you. Here we go. Let's see what I got here.

I had a Dallas Cowboys tonight in a game where there's a liver die game on Thursday and then football. It's a do-or-die game, Dan. I don't know. They are a three-and-a-half-point dog against Detroit. Look at their schedule, by the way. This is their last hard game. and furthermore, they have the potential to win out and not make the playoffs. Yeah, the thing is, if Detroit loses, I think they're on a similar path where they're out of the playoffs, too.

So it's like, can Dallas win and maybe get some help to go to the playoffs, or is Detroit going to lose and get out of the playoffs? I'm going to put that one back. A three and a half point dog at Detroit. Yeah, two highest stakes in that game. I got them again, so doesn't matter. We got a wrap. We got a wrap. I don't think that we're supposed to.

This has happened to me a couple of times. I think we're supposed to take that helmet out and keep it out. No, I don't think that's why you put it back for that possibility. We've only done this for 10 years. I got the Eagles. They are at their favorite. They're at the Chargers, and they're three and a half point favorite at the Chargers. Justin Herbert had surgery on his non-throwing game.

He's going to play in the game. Why are you doing the Steph Curry mouthguard thing? I did this shit in your mouth. Packers. The Packers are. Big game against the bears, Dan. Oh, that is a big game. Okay, bigger favorite.

I'll take it. So the Packers and the Bears play a meaningful game. Man, it's been a long time since both of these teams were good at the same time. Six and a half ones are big line. Maybe since Smoking J. So the bears are... I had the Cardinals. I don't even have to look.

I'm throwing that shit back. Okay, you're not looking even, and the Cardinals are at home against the Rams, and they're an eight-and-a-half point dog. I got the Rams. And the Rams, that's much better. Remember that Caleb Haney playoff game? I do not remember that game. Packers Bears, Caleb Haney came in.

The Titans, I know I don't want that. At the Browns. The Panthers have a buy. Yeah. They're playing good ball too, Dan. Their season is over. I've been saying that since they beat the dolphins. They beat the dolphins, and I proclaim.

their season over, and the Carolina Panthers are now seven and six. They have a chance to win the division. That's the only way to do it, right? They're not going to get into the playoffs. The disparity between the AFC and the NFC is something to behold. The 49ers are what right now at 9 and 4? They are a 5 seed or a 6 seed? They're 3rd in their own division.

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you can catch up. A thousand impersonation. That's not bad, man. Finally. Pretty good. Stugats. Yours is terrible. You just got to get a little redder, a little pinker. You're right there, man.

Yours is not. You're biting me. What do you mean? Oh, this is good. That's actually not bad. Not terrible. That's not terrible. You got to come together.

A little southern twilight. A little George Bush in that one. This is the Dan Levitar show with the Stugats. The 49ers are 9 and 4. They have done what they always do, no matter how injured they are. They're the 7th seed. They're hanging on. Okay, so they're the 7 seed at 9 and 4,

while the Bengals at 4 and 8 have a chance to get in the playoffs in the AFC if they win their division. The only way for Carolina actually make the playoffs, and the reason I keep saying their season is over is because that team does not have a legitimate a chance to do anything if they get into the playoffs. No team from that division does, including the Bucks. But why, where are we on the idea of the Carolina Panthers chasing down the bucks? I see a lot of people on television these days looking at schedules. The cold schedule is an apocalypse the rest of the way. They've got too many difficult games. Panthers beat the Rams last week. The best team in football. They beat the best team in football last week.

All right. Look, yes, they did. and they've played well at home, and they beat the Falcons, 30 to nothing at home. They beat the Rams, though, because the Rams had three turnovers, and that's not a team that ever turns the ball over. You hadn't had Matthew Stafford throw an interception in 10 weeks. So no credit to them for forcing them to look like that? They forced turnovers. I believe that turnovers are largely lucky.

There are some instances. For example, the Jets have been bad this year, at least in part, because before last week, I think they'd caused one turnover. But I don't actually think the causing of turnovers is an ability. You go ahead and look at, for example, go ahead and help me this year with the randomness of football turnovers given that I thought that the Jets and the Steelers were going to have good defenses this year because they had good defenses last year. But I don't actually believe that unless you have a pass rush,

like unless you have what they have in Denver, I don't believe that turnovers are a recreatable thing. For example, that Chiefs Dallas game, the Chiefs Dallas game that got decided with the Cowboys winning. You tell me whether you think the turnover, the fumble at the end of the game that the Cowboys did not actually lose. You think that that's an ability, what Turpin did there? Well, Carolina's top 10 in turnovers, but yes, I think that you force turnovers. I think you prepare for weeks on end for an opponent. you see something in film and you execute a game plan.

I do think, yeah, there's sometimes a ball slips out of my hand, but that's not what happened against the L.A. Rams. They forced those turnovers. They played really well. Or you're playing against that lamb, man. You know about that lamb, man? Yo, stop asking me if I know about that lamb, man. So let's examine this for a second because I do believe there is a large element of luck with forced turnovers everywhere except where it regards pass rush. because if you have pass rush that you can get, that is a disruption that is something that can be forced upon the other team. It can also make your secondary a great deal better because if you have pass rush, we all know what that is.

But I am not that impressed with Carolina's pass rush. They were good against the Rams. I thought Stafford had a bad game. and I don't think that Carolina forced that upon him and the Rams still scored 28 points in the game The thing is about NFL, like it's a weird game The ball is weird, weird things happen It was just one of those games for the Rams

Like things didn't click and they had all their pieces there And it just didn't happen I mean it is what it is You're kind of in a roundabout way Talking about what's happening with the college football playoff You're just projecting assumptions and macro data points When they played a game on the field And their pass rush was effective

And they forced turnovers in that game And that's why we have competitive athletics They also won at Green Bay. So when you talk about only being good at home, they did win on the road at a team that's going to be pretty high up in the playoffs. And the thing that you bank on if you're the Panthers is the same thing that you're banking on, actually, if you're the Bears, which is we have not one but two different running backs we can go to. The reason they beat the Rams is because they ran the ball, what, they ran the ball 40 times,

five times with Bryce Young, but 17 carries for Chuba Hubbard, 18 carries for Rico Dowdell. and when you can control the possessions that way and not turn the ball over, you have a chance to turn out on the other side of the turnover margin. On the other side of the coin, though, they lost the bill's 40 to 9, and they lost the Patriots 42-13. It's like, where are you in the hierarchy of,

are you a good team, are you a bad team? If you create turnovers and you can run the ball, okay, you're a little bit better, but then when you have a team that plays really good offense, you kind of suck. They're an execution team, and they're lining up against these teams with a talent disparity, and yes, it's about limiting the opponent's possessions

because the more possessions they get, the more likely they are to score points. So you try to control the game, and you stick to a game plan. Again, this is why we play the games. They have a couple of games against the bucks in the last five games that will end up deciding that division. But I do think when we talk about the analysis around some of this, I'd like to explore this with you guys, okay? Small samples, right? 13 games played, you're 7 and 6. We all know that all the football games are closed.

Go look at Arizona's schedule and how many games. they've lost by one, two, three, or four points. Just go look at Arizona. And if you think one score winning is an ability, you explain to me why the Chiefs were great at it last year and are terrible at it this year when we all know that the Chiefs are great. We've seen over the last few years they are consistently great.

So I believe that part of the problem that happens with football analysis is you get small samples, you get a whole lot of randomness, and you get what I'm talking about with forced turnovers, which are not recreateable. Like, I don't think of a team. causes 16 turnovers this year, returns all its starters on defense next year, that they then can create 16 turnovers again next year. It was Dallas a couple years ago, where they had this incredible defense and had like

30 different turnovers throughout the season. The next year, the return basically all of their starters except maybe a couple, and then were a laughing stock defense. Cardinals have lost seven games by four points or less. I don't disagree with what Dan is saying about one score games and them being a trade. But if you look at the teams that they've lost one score games too, they're all excellent teams and late game execution usually comes down to who can execute better who's more talented and if you compare that to last year the problem why everyone was saying look out for these cheese

they might be inflated is they were doing those one score games and those getting those dubs against teams that were inferior to them this year not not the case you're right uh in a way but when you say late game execution matters there's no team in the sport that i trust more with late game execution right now than the rams then the rams and what happened at the of that game is, oh, look, Stafford's fumbling because he didn't see that coming from the blind side, and that never happens to them. Yeah, it's a great sport. It's also a random sport. Yeah, there's some randomness to it. We've talked about how the ball isn't round. Like, sometimes there is randomness. Sometimes there's a bad call, but there's also days and weeks and months of preparation

for an opponent on how do you strategize to stop somebody? It's awesome. It is awesome, and you can increase some probabilities, but turnovers are super random. And if you don't think the defense is recreatable from one year to the next, if you return all your starters, I don't know how you would think that turnovers are recreatable from one year to the next when you need guys to fumble. You need to punch the ball correctly in order to get a fumble. You can prepare, you can try, but you are ignoring that the other team is also preparing to not fumble. Forced turnovers, historically, not something that carries over year after year. Teams can get hot.

There is randomness at play. But I'm not in the headquarters of the Carolina Panthers. But I'd imagine the majority of those forced turnovers were the byproduct of preparation and execution. So you say this, and I know we want to talk about preparation and execution. But Michael Jackson, the guy who had the pick six, is also the guy who allowed the Puka Nakuoka. How do you prepare for that Puka Nakua? You can't. But how do you prepare for I'm going to throw it at Puka's right wrist and he's going to catch it with the back of his right wrist?

Like what are you preparing for there? He executed. It's just Puka executed better. I mean, it was great. Great D better O, Dan. You know that saying? Great D better O? Yes, I know that saying, but I am simply maintaining that I don't believe that in many instances that

turnovers are a thing that you can prepare for and execute unless you're playing against Max Brossmer or Brommer or whatever his name. Brossmer, whatever his name is. Then we never speak it again. So Seattle prepared for Brosmer panicking, getting caught by the arm, and simply flipping it straight to a Seattle Seahawk. No, but they prepared for a first start quarterback and, hey, let's throw hell at him at him and see how he reacts and that's how he reacted poorly not a good reaction um your your dead set on

believing that uh there is some outfit out there that can create a great many fumbles you're outside of pass rush outside of pass rush which is quarterback strip sacks and all that stuff where you're just getting to the quarterback you believe there's another scenario where i'm not going to discount it as all random no i think that there are teams that are coach this i'm not discounting it as all random but i think there's a lot of random in it. You have to wrap, Tony.