The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - Hour 2: Against The Breakfast Spread (Feat. Ken Rogers)

Episode Date: December 11, 2024

To kick off the final hour it's time for Against The (breakfast) Spread! Do both the Buffalo Bills and Detroit Lions want to lose this game in order to set up a revenge game? Dan is curious whether Odell Beckham Jr. would rather have had zero catches for zero yards than the one catch for one yard that he posted last Sunday against the Jets. Plus, we check out this week's Useless Sound Montage while Stugotz takes a massage gun to the kidney. Then, Jeremy takes a victory lap about a UCF take that nobody heard or cared about. To wrap up the show, Ken Rogers of NFL Films joins us to discuss the making of Hard Knocks as David Samson takes a joke too far and makes things awkward in a way only he can. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to Giraffe King's Network. This is the Dan LeBattor Show with the Stoogats Podcast. Alright, you know what time it is. It's time for Against the Sway sponsored by DraftKings. Stay tuned because you'll hear more about DraftKings and all it has to offer throughout the show. DraftKings, the crown is yours. I'm going to start with an easy one. Huh. The New York Rangers at the Buffalo Sabres, not much needed to be added here. Rangers are favorites at a goal and a half. Take the Rangers tonight against the Braves.

Really? Mine is gold and a half. The easy one. Nothing more needs to be said. I mean the Sabres are one of the worst teams. That Buffalo. Nothing more needs to be said. The Save. I mean, the Save is one of the worst teams, at least. Nothing needs to be said. Buffalo's playing for their city, Roy. Yeah. They've been sullied.

They've been tuned. Yeah, I mean, the, I mean, the Bills, they got the Bills, don't worry about them. All right, Roy, you mentioned the Bills. I'm gonna take the Bills, plus two and a half over the Detroit Lions, Sunday at 4.95. What is the price? That's what you ask.

Great question. We talked about this a week and a half ago or so, more or less. This is a big statement game for both teams, but not necessarily the statement that you wanna make, because it's also the opportunity for a revenge game for both teams, should this be the Super Bowl that a lot of people want to see. Now here's what you ask yourself, both teams, do they want to win this game or do they want

to lose this game? Because if you lose the game, then you create a revenge game for yourself and both of these teams were in need for quality losses to kind of motivate them a little bit more. 41 and 17 against the spread. We should hear them out. It would be a quality loss for both teams. And it's a game in which we discussed, you don't pull out all the stops.

You leave some stops in there. So then, should you have the rematch in the Super Bowl, then you think, we saw all the stops. They were all pulled out. No, boom, new stop, not anticipated. You catch the other team off guard. However, both teams are kind of in the same position where they could do this to the other team.

So you wonder, how many stops will be in? How many will be pulled? Who knows? I'm gonna go with the Bills, plus two and a half against the Sprague. Does that count toward your record? No, this is not. This is outside.

Against the spread is different, and here's the thing. I won last season of Against the Spread. I won the big prize. Still waiting on it to arrive, but I won the big prize last season. My Against the Spread, honestly, is probably better than my Big Board Bats record.

It's kinda crazy. Jessica. I think your reasoning sounded ass. The spread. The spread. I'm taking Army this weekend to cover six and a half against Navy because Bryson Daley the army quarterback the army team this year they have been so good except for that one game against Notre Dame we don't count that don't worry about that one.

Bryson Daley by the way 100% completion percentage last weekend he threw two passes but the army offense is elect so is the Navy offense really, but I think Armies is just slightly better. Statistically, they've just been slightly better this season. Navy's fallen a few times. I think this is Armies and I think they're going to cover. Thank you for your service to both sides in that game. Samson, why are you laughing at Stugatsa's maniacal coughing and choking? Billy made me laugh. We're in a contract year. we're trying to do the sponsored- I mean I'm crying. The sponsored segment correctly

and Stugance is just coughing and wheezing. As Billy says, both teams need to lose so somebody has a revenge game. Correct. And my stomach hurts so badly that I'm doubled over him. Same here. Same here. Candy.

Something's going on because someone else said they had a tummy ache too and everyone's being a brave boy today and just kind of working through it. Oh my god, was it the bacon sandwiches? Coco was sick also. Wow. I think there's something going on, but I'm just saying that I thought it was more show related,

but it could be the potatoes with the pork. It is not the potatoes and the pork. Right. Sounds like you have something against the breakfast bread. I like it. I'll leave. No, that was a good one. No, that was fun. That one was a good one.

Roy, get him. You can stay here, and I'm also gonna create another penalty because you guys deciding when it is you leave sort of defeats the purpose of punishment, so I'm gonna get a punishment that you guys don't actually wanna walk into where you guys offering the bad joke and then i'll leave because you get

rewarded for it we're gonna fix the way the tennis is is a little bit box right now so please keep me out okay i think that's getting mad i might take stood outside because it was a while and this is how i was in i will take his punishment no again i'm not understanding the way punishment to work that's not what we're gonna do right now i do want to ask you guys a question here before we get to the useless sound montage. Odell Beckham, when I say that name, it was not long ago that that was a New York superstar, that that was an athlete that was a Kardashian world adjacent pop culture famous,

internet famous in a way that made him a giant sports star. The New York Giants have been basically an unmitigated echoing failure since they were photographed on a boat wearing whatever it is, jeans, shirtless, and construction boots. They were all wearing it. Take care, Stugats, I hope you're okay,

I hope you don't die. Maybe you should have Genesis take it out of your system. Now it's, now, now, now, now, well, and now you're coughing too, because there are a number of elements playing defense against me being able to do this well or professionally today. Mostly all of the people I'm paying. It's almost all of the people that I'm paying. A whole lot of sh** has been going on that nobody sees behind the scenes that has made today an

unmitigated disaster in every way that these things are produced. But the question I was asking you is about Odell Beckham, a huge sports star, once once upon a time for the Miami Dolphins on Sunday he had one catch for one yard and I'm asking you would he have preferred to see zero catches for zero yards in the box score when he left that football game or does a huge sports star once upon a time leave that football game. Or does a huge sports star once upon a time leave that football game feeling proud that he contributed one yard and one catch to a victory? We did not plan this, Dan, but you're talking

about superstars pinch hitting. I'm gonna move it to baseball and then relate it back to answer your question. There are players who say do not pinch hit me on an off day. The big guys who are getting paid a lot of money, they don't want to prepare and do what's necessary to have the one at bat and then stare at a donut and an 0 for one going against the closer throwing 99.

So they ask for the full day. Odell Beckham, the question is before the game starts, is he told by Coach McDaniel, hey, listen, you're put shoes on, you're gonna be in this. Or was it, oh Christ, hey listen, put your shoes on, you're gonna be in this. Or was it, oh Christ, go back, put your shoes on? No, it's not. He expected to have a big day.

I'm assuming he always expects to have a big day because he's Odell Beckham. I don't think that he's happy at his role with the Dolphins that anytime you're taking a prop bet on Odell Beckham this year, it's over under, will he have 11 and a half yards for the game because he's their third receiver or actually he's their third wide receiver allegedly in name value, but they got about seven guys they're more likely to throw it to on any given route.

I'm just asking you the question about the box score itself when it's one catch for one yard would Od L Beckham prefer that that that be zero catches for zero yards I think he wants the yard in the catch mmm no because I tend to think about Mike Irvin in this situation I think he wants the yards I think he wants more yards I think he wants more catches you think he wants no targets as opposed to like a stat line that's nine yards one reception? No, no, not.

I thought it was one yard, one catch. I thought it was one catch for one yard. I don't think he's happy that he received that little amount of targets. Well, of course. I think the high, does he have a streak going on that if he is here, hypothetical baseball player with the street, the 10 year streak. He doesn't have any kind of streak because he's got plenty of games with zero catches, zero yards. The 800 game history. Are they a have any kind of streak because he's got plenty of games with zero catches, zero yards. Billy, what do you think?

Is there a streak going on? The 800 game hit streak, are they a Hall of Fame or that one? Yeah. If Odell Beckham is that guy, then I think he wants the one yard, one reception. I think he knows. People know, we tell him before a game,

he knows he's third string, he knows how many targets he's going to get. Do you think he, do you think Odell Beckham goes into the game thinking on the number one target? No, I think this has sadly been like the reality for the last few years for him. But Stugats is in the other room. I'm being told that he's in the other room now.

Hey, Dano. And he's ready to go with Genesis and he is, oh, wait a minute, he's getting the good stuff. Oh! That's not the stuff that hurts. That's the stuff that feels good right there. No, the Thera Gun on the kidney is a, Yeah, it hurts. It's a bad spot. The Thera Gun? On the kidney. That's not stuff that feels good right there. No, the Theragun on the kidney is a... Yeah, it hurts.

It's a bad spot. The Theragun? On the kidney. That's not his kidney. The Theragun feels good. The Theragun, the Theragun... Not in the kidneys, Dan. Oh, oh.

When I'm watching that dolphin game on Sunday, and I think Sampson's got this wrong, they don't know how many catches they're gonna have. I'm guessing that John New Smith thought he going to have like the last month worth of games ten targets in that game then they don't target him all game and then in overtime all the sudden they're thrown three times to him and and uh... he wouldn't have had any warning whatsoever that they were going to target them all the entire game and then in overtime because jason sanders manages to make the

sixteenth consecutive kick of his career, longest active streak in the league, then all of a sudden he gets a chance at some catches. Otherwise, John New Smith was leaving the stadium with zero catches for zero yards. Zero targets, too. I think the players are in communication a little more than that. And I think when you're in the game, if you're in the play, you know where you are with two of your, are you the check down guy? You're going to get more or are you the check down guy? You're gonna get more?

Or are you the third option? You may get fewer. Odell Beckham, you are told prior how many plays. Odell Beckham does not think that he's going into an NFL football game and all he's gonna have is one catch for one yard. You think Odell's waking up and he thinks he's gonna get 12 targets this week?

Not 12 targets, just not one catch for one yard. Like that's not what he's going to the stadium for. If you told him beforehand, this is what it's gonna be, he's gonna say, I don't even wanna play. What's the point of playing? Dan, what if he had a second catch but it was for like negative three yards? Do you think he'd rather have one for one yard

or two for minus two yards then? Good question. Ooh, this is a good hypothetical. It could be incentives in his contract for snaps played. Perhaps, I don't think he's going to meet those though because he hasn't actually played that much. The reason I'm actually bringing it up is because of how fleeting stardom can be in that sport.

But let's- E-sport, Dan. Yeah, but no, that one, yes, any sport. The sport of podcasting as well. I think football, the average career in football is three years. Same in baseball. Same with podcasting.

Yeah, you don't reach arbitration. I mean, he's still a name. His name still has brand recognition. He may not be a star in terms of stats he's putting up, but do you think he's just going to be forgotten? People are going to remember him for a while. The only place I was trying to take you guys is I believe Odell Beckham is embarrassed

by seeing his name and that stat line, given where he's been in the sport. And I know that career mortality, you've heard me say some version of this before, that confidence is the last thing to go, I'm sorry, that confidence is the last thing to go and the mirror is the last thing to know that these guys generally keep thinking that they're going to overcome odds again and again.

Odell Beckham, look, I don't know what he expected his career to be after making what was being described as the greatest catch any of us had ever seen in a Monday night football game with the New York Giants. But what happened to his career after that is he went to Cleveland with great expectations, was supposed to carry them over with the great expectations, and that entire Cleveland team ends up falling apart. And then he does resurrect himself by going to the Rams, and in that Super Bowl, he was going to be Super Bowl MVP.

The way that game plan was structured, if he had not gotten hurt in that game, Odell Beckham was going to win the Super Bowl MVP. The way that game plan was structured, if he had not gotten hurt in that game, Odell Beckham was gonna win the Super Bowl MVP. To have that as your career and go to the Dolphins and be fighting at six and seven, one catch for one yard, that seems like it happened pretty fast to me. Maybe it doesn't feel that way to you, but that feels like it evaporated pretty fast. So his contract is full of incentives.

He gets $450,000 if he catches six touchdowns. He gets $450,000 if he catches six touchdowns. He gets $400,000 if he gets four touchdowns. One million if he gets 55 receptions. 400,000 for 36, 800,000 for 45. It seems like he was signing a deal knowing, I'm gonna have to prove it to get all of this money. And these are incentives that, I mean, he's not gonna reach it.

I think he's played nine games and has nine receptions at the moment. I don't think they're purposely holding him down. No, no, I don't think so either. I think he also came in knowing like, hey, I'm like the fourth option here. And that's why I don't think he was surprised to have one catch for one yard.

He was not, he didn't sign with the Dolphins. It was a really weird deal down here in Miami when he signed as though you were signing the player he was with the Rams before the injury. He's sort of, he's done. He's in the, you know, 16th minute of a 15 minute career. No, I know the Will Fuller contract with the Dolphins where you come in and cash in at the end of your career.

I'm still telling you, and I will move off of this subject in a second, you are underestimating the amount of personal pride that these people have. One catch for one yard is embarrassing to him. Like seeing those numbers based on what used to be the threat of that name, there is no pride in that. And if you have pride as an athlete,

those numbers, looking at them, you're like a little bit ashamed of what your career has become. How many athletes go out on their career after like a 13 reception game with two touchdowns? But also like, if Odell Beckham goes out and it's like hey Odell Beckham is at this club come like see Odell Beckham you think like oh one catch one yard I don't think so I don't want to hang out with Odell Beckham today. No one knows his stat line he's Odell Beckham Jr.

He made the catch. Who the hell cares about Odell Beckham Jr. that catch was the worst thing that ever happened to him in his career Dan. I mean what do you care Odell Beckham Jr. chose to come to the Dolphins. Tariq Hill is on this team, Jalen Waddell is on this team, Jonah Smith is on this team, A-chan is on this team. The guy who led the NFL in touchdowns can't even sniff the field. Who cares about Odell Beckham Jr. It sounds like the Theragun's in your mouth. It really does. Oh yes please.

I mean, I leave for a minute, you talk about Odell Beckham. You really nailed that phrase that's saying that, by the way. You say nailed in that position is not my perfect visual. It's hurting my tummy. OK, I need you to stop making this overt sexual innuendos. This is a good part, though. Oh. I love Genesis' laugh. Howdy folks, it's Mike, by now you know how about Game Time I am, and I'm converting my friends and my family one by one, and I'm converting listeners. Thank you for letting me know that you guys have turned to, for my money, the greatest

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But it's just his titties are sitting on the shelf that is his belly. Stugats. He said titties and it like shocked me a little bit. I wasn't quite prepared for titties. This is the Don Lebatard show with the StuGuts. Roy, give me the useless sound montage please. All of the football coaches, all of the football players who said irrelevant things that are immediately forgetful. Give it to me, Cliche Fest.

["The Power of the Pack"] You know, he never blinked and we gave him opportunities. Just because we're in first is one thing, staying first is a whole nother deal. The strength of the pack is the pack. Remind myself of how hard this thing is and how much of a competitor you gotta be for four quarters and go and take it. Nothing's ever given to you.

The losing period sucks. When you're up in the fourth quarter, all of a sudden it starts to feel like you have a losing problem. It's like you have a gene. Brazilian group. We play for each other. Guys step up when other people are down and that's what football's all about, teach you life lessons.

Just gotta build, gotta progress. I'm about to find a way to come together and come and sync as a unit and play complimentary ball. We got our ass kicked today and there's no way around it. We got our butts kicked, there's no other way to say it. Big part of it is my appreciation for them. You know, they work the right way. The process is intact. The guys are working hard during the week. Walk-throughs, meetings,

the whole thing. Details high, energy's high, execution's high. It's not translating to the field on Sundays. Thought the guys were ready to play. Trying to put it all together, all three phases. I thought we took a step today on special teams. I went through my reads. I'll try to release in the left corner and then the halfback and a couple other guys and then as I went to ready to run I just saw 8-7 just sitting right there in the middle of the field open so I just fired it to him. You never go broke taking a profit. We didn't make enough plays today and so that's on us as an offense to take a look at it watch the film be critical about ourselves

especially in the first half and see what went wrong where we can improve and what we can do moving forward. I mean, do you see Josh Allen as an alien? This is football. Like, we're all grown men. It's an opportunity for the world to see that we're going to keep fighting, you know, and this is who we are, and when the Bengals walk on the field, you know, you're going to get our best shot.

Appreciative of the efforts in game. It didn't start off the way we would like in terms of fluidity. We weren't converting third downs there early on, but the guys found their traction. I appreciate the defense providing some short fields and some splash. Reminded of Sir Andrew Barton. Fight on my men, Sir Andrew said. I'm a little wounded but not slain. I'll lay down and bleed a while and we'll rise and fight again. Yes, Jim Harbaugh nailing the dismount. I've got some more useless sound for you from basketball.

Bonus. Here is Sacramento Kings coach Mike Brown being fully useless 26 times. We just need to be methodical by stacking or playing the right way. Possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession after possession you guys got what I'm saying no I thought it was AI I thought it was I didn't believe that that was a real shit that it was, I didn't believe that that was a real thing

that I didn't believe that that was a real thing that had happened. I'm figuring that if you're gonna go all in on that, why stop? Like why stop it 26? Why stop it 26? Just keep doing it until they walk out? Just keep doing it until the press conference ends.

Like stand up, keep doing it as you walk out of the room, just end the press conference that way. This is the kind of thing that I was known for doing as a child. My parents always tell me this story. One time we were on a road trip, and I kept repeating the same song from like summer camp and singing it to my sister in the back seat.

And my parents in the front seat were like, just ignore her, she's gonna shut up if you ignore her, don't yell at her, she'll keep doing it. And I said, oh, you wanna bet? So then I sang the song all the way from like the Kentucky, Ohio border to like Tennessee for like 45 minutes and my parents and my sister wanted to murder me. A singing tribute to your stubbornness basically.

Exactly, I was like, I bet I can outlast you with my annoyance. Yes. And no change. Beyond your wildest expectations. And yeah, nothing has changed since then. I'm still super, super annoying. And stubborn. Speaking of which, let's go out to Jeremy. Nothing more fun than hearing Jeremy enjoy being right.

Jeremy is doing the wicked green witch of the west as part of his punishments here, I'm assuming. I don't even know what to. Not a punishment. Right, Jeremy is doing the wicked green witch of the west as part of his punishments here, I'm assuming. I don't even know what. Not a punishment. It's not a punishment. Not a punishment. I don't think he even picks teams.

I think he just likes dressing up. The bill's lost. He does, that's true. So what are you doing a victory lap about? What did you get right? I got right what was gonna happen with the UCF Knights, Dan. And before we get to that victory lap I know Roy has some info on this Peloton victory lap

Yes, this victory lap is brought to you by Peloton find your push find your power with Peloton So Dan yes, I am I am dressed as Elphaba from wicked and if you were wondering yes everything and I mean everything Everything is green but UCF Wondering UCF,, UCF, remember when I went up to the UCF Colorado game and you guys, you guys didn't pay me to go up, but I went up anyway and made a bunch of content.

And at the end of that content, I was really upset that UCF had lost the game and I was the first person on the fire Gus train But I also said something else that the video team has prepared. I Don't know if I'm allowed to say this because I'm on the sideline but Fire Gus bring back Scott frost bring back. They're all saying it with me bring show them bring back Scott frost So what eventually happens? That was September 28th. What happens now in mid-December? Well, we're

here and what did UCF do? Listen to me and bring back Scott Frost as the head coach. I also tweeted on October 1st that their offensive coordinator under Scott Frost should be Mackenzie Milton and hey what happened yesterday? Mackenzie Milton gets hired as the quarterback coach for UCF Dan UCF is back and they're back because they listened to me. I am The biggest voice in sports media representing UCF, which doesn't be much. I know that But my opinions my beliefs have now been accessed that's what it's supposed to be and push he's supposed to be tired the

UCF administration Terry Mahadjah listens to everything I had to say and he knows that I more than anyone can defy gravity congratulations Jeremy not surprising that this entire show would be a That I more than anyone can defy gravity Congratulations Jeremy not surprising that this entire show would be a tribute in some ways to your narcissism I thought that Pablo Torre was the most narcissistic person that we have here at the network But Billy you've seen how everything that's been Jeremy related today has been an inception of his that's been Jeremy related today has been an inception of his narcissism where it's just Jeremy throwing it to sound of Jeremy or Jeremy throwing it to the face of Jeremy or Jeremy being self-involved about Jeremy. Today has been a picture of Jeremy when his teeth was taken out we showed that to a guest

then we saw a video of him predicting a coach would get fired a tweet of himself and then he sang a song. That sounds like the entirety of the Jeremy experience. And he mentioned his privates. And he did and all of a sudden he has a green penis which was strange. He didn't talk about the heat so it was a win. Yes a win for everybody. I'll take it actually. And we weren't at the whiteboard. We all will take it. You got here right now my friends over at Simply Safe are extending their massive Black Friday deal for our Levitard show listeners. Simply Safe is the home security I trust to keep my home and family safe. I've been telling you that for years.

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Every point counts download the DraftKings Sportsbook app and use code Dan, that's code Dan, D-A-N for new customers to get 150 in bonus bets. If your bet wins when you bet just five bucks only on DraftKings, the crown is yours. Gambling problem call 1-800-GAMBLER. In New York call 877-8HOPENY or text HOPENY467369. In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-789-77777 or visit ccpg.org. Please play

responsibly. On behalf of Boothill Casino and Resort in Kansas, 21 and over, age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario, bet must win to receive reward. Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dkng.co.slash.bball. Don LeBretard. I had Rachel and Emma both home, and I was in a fight with Rachel. And I said, if you roll your eyes one more time, there's going to be a problem. A big problem. And she said, really? What what are you gonna do? Stugats! Oh goddamn! I mean that's where she... I didn't have an answer! This is the Don

Lebatar show with the Stugats! Ken Rogers. The Gambler huh? This is not Kenny Rogers. Got to know when to hold up. No. I need to introduce the guest. Nobody knows why I mentioned Ken Rogers. Okay, you just wanted to get to your gambling joke so you could leave. I wanted to talk to Ken Rogers. Okay, you're leaving. You don't want to walk away, Dan-o. No one to fold them. Yes. Thank you for your help, Sturgats. appreciate all your good work on the show i kept god bless football monday through friday calendar introduce ken rogers not kenny rogers so i can tell you i did to the hell he is

instead of you just singing a song by kenny rogers he's an nfl films producer and director he's had uh... nearly twenty years of hard knocks under his belt four teams are being followed for the first time. Hard Knocks is streaming on Macs, and we're basically just doing this for Jessica because she's the one around here who is mainlining all of the Hard Knocks.

And one of the reasons I wanna talk to Ken Rogers is because, Ken, if we were to go through all of the footage that were not allowed by the NFL or the teams, how great would this show really be, beyond how great it already is? It's plenty great the way it is, but if you could put everything on air that you guys have that's in the vault of all the secrets,

how great would that show be? I think you would love it. I think the general fan would be a little bored. I think people overrate how exciting a facility is, whether it's training camp or even in season. It's a lot of looking at a board, looking at the plays, going over another play, going over yet another scenario.

If you love the intricacies of football, you might love it more than another person. As far as the real juicy stuff, a lot of that makes the show these guys are pretty serious, especially in season, you know, joking around and training camp is one thing but in season, all four of these camps, you can tell that the division is on the line or their pride is on the line, jobs are on the line, it's pretty serious there. So you might get a lot of insight, but you have to really love football

to love the bonus material. Do the owners ask for final edit, final cut? How much power do you give them? No, I mean, this is a collaboration always. So they know what's in the show and we're very careful to not give away competitive secrets. So there's a lot of that sort of discussion of that play that you heard. We can't show that, especially in division.

We can't hear that play call because we're going to use it. That being said, the sensitive stuff is pretty unremarkable when it comes to the personality stuff. You see the best stuff. stuff owners don't really get involved I'm not sure that Any any of them have necessarily watched the show beforehand even in in in season? I think they sort of watch with everybody else. It's definitely a football driven show personality driven show. It's a It's a, it's a workplace drama. Have you ever had somebody from any team complain about what they seen on the

show and had they take it out the show? No, sometimes afterwards we all regret things. I'll tell you the best example and it's, and it's so famous is Rex Ryan's got to go get a, a snack. Right. So we got that and we put it on and we were like, this is great because he's so vehement. And it was taken out of context by a lot of people then that, oh, Rex is overweight.

Rex wants to go get a cookie. Oh, let's go get a snack. Actually, it was just next on their schedule. And people forget like that's what happens on a team is you have a team meeting and then literally on the schedule, it says snack. So I think they regretted like boy that became a big thing. There's a lot of things that become memeable that weren't intended that way and there's nothing you can do and go back. And I know what you're going to probably ask, you're

probably going to say you know well have teams regretted it. Not many teams after they're on have ever expressed one iota of, boy, we wish we didn't do that. I think they realize that it's good for them and for their fan base. Well, I have a bunch of questions, but first, I'm a Steelers fan. Ask away. And I get the sense that Mike Tomlin has put on this front

that he doesn't want the cameras to be there, but then when I'm watching the show, I'm like, I think he kind of secretly really loves this. What is your sense from working with him on the Steelers stuff? I think he knows how to send a message. And I think he's embracing the message without letting it disrupt the team. And that's what the very best coaches on Hard Knocks have done. He's not about to act differently. He's not, he's not going to be quiet in a meeting because our cameras there. He's not going to be quiet in a meeting because our camera's there. He's not going to all of a sudden let his team see him clam up or play to the cameras more.

He's going to be himself. So he's been a great example of being himself, allowing it to exist and not letting it distract. I think the more you worry about what am I doing on television, the worse it would get. And luckily, after a day or two, everyone in the organization is kind of relaxed and go, Oh, I get it. It's not that big of a deal. Yeah. Now he's just being himself. My favorite part of the in season Hard Knocks has been all of the archival footage that NFL Films has. And like 15 years ago, my boyfriend was actually an intern at NFL Films and used to log all the footage. So I know there's like just

so he knows all the secrets. Oh, yeah, he knows that he he wears his NFL films stuff everywhere and gets compliments on it everywhere he wears it. And I will be stealing that hat one day, Lee. But anyways, I love all of the archival, you know, AFC North divisional footage, because there's so many iconic moments from those rivalries. So how much fun was it going back and putting together all of the sort of archival montages that are in each episode?

Yeah, you really realize the depth of history, and we haven't even gotten into the Paul Browns of it and all, but I think the best example was really this week when we sort of rediscovered, some of us knew, but rediscovered that the Steelers logo comes from Cleveland. And it was like, wow, like there's a lot of history here. And I bet a large percentage of Pittsburgh fans heard that and said, wait, what? Our logo came from Cleveland? Like, what the heck with that? I'm amazed at how much history there is between these teams. Of course, the North, the AFC North isn't that old,

but the old division that they played in, it's just been so much hatred. And I think it's because of the proximity. And what you see in this show is when they play each other, holy cow, it's up to another level. And that's where we've sort of created these cinematic game openings. When they play each other, it's just another, another step up in intensity for everybody on the, on both teams.

There's this thing called Marvel fatigue. Uh, the MCU plays a lot of movies every year and people are getting tired of watching them. There have been a lot of episodes of Heart Knocks. Are you afraid of Heart Knocks fatigue? I'm I used to be I used to be I used to say Steve Sable would say it too. You know, we got to be reaching the end here, right? Like there's there's a bubble.

The the great thing is that every year, every team is different. And although the basic structure of a training camp or an off season or an in season is kind of the same, everyone's situation is so different. We're so blessed as storytellers in the NFL that when one person retires, when Tom Brady retires and we can no longer tell his story on a day to day basis, oh, you know, here comes Joe Burrow. Or, oh, well, week seven, what are we gonna do? No, here comes Jameis Winston. Like, the revolving storylines are so great

that I don't think we'll ever get bored of Farnoches. All I keep thinking about is the SAC exchange and Mark Gastineau going after Brett. Oh, I knew that was gonna come up. I knew it. How was I not gonna ask? Dealing with Gastineau. If he, like, does he have something against you?

Is he coming back at you? 10 years after Sack Exchange. What's the backstory? What's the back, you guys know what you're talking about. The audience might not know what you're talking about with Gastineau. Mark Gastineau, former member of the Sack Exchange New York Jets, has a little beef with Brett Favre

from decades ago. Our esteemed guest directed a movie called The Sack Exchange. Nobody knows that. You know that, he knows that. You have not told anybody that he's directed six 30 for 30 films. He's directed Belichick and Saving, sorry,

the Art of Coaching for HBO. You did Bill Belichick, A Football Life, dozens of film projects. Now ask the question, David. You've completely ruined it, but here we go. Hey Ken, just out of curiosity, are you scared of Mark Gastineau giving your resume? Mark is a great guy who has a lot of passion

about how he feels. So yeah, I think if I were in a room with him, I could both be charmed and find him very empathetic, which I do, and I could also fear that he might kick my butt because he's able to kick anybody's butt still. The New York SAC exchange film that airs Friday, you know, was quite an experience to walk in side by side with mark asano. I know the bread far clip came out yesterday but there's so much more to the story and these four guys that

Yeah, I haven't gotten a call yet from mr. Gasano, but if I do it I might conveniently You know put my phone down a couple of fill in the bank blank questions as quick as you can go the coach Who it the coach who has wanted you around least is blank Oh geez I don't have an answer to that not mike tomlin No, none of them really want you around right? Well, yeah, I mean I I think here's the thing with coaches They this isn't a quick answer that the coaches want everything to just stay the same every day

So yeah, they don't want any change. So why don't I say everybody? I coached the most interesting story. I think we've told in our history is blank the team the 2001 New England Patriots The most surprised I have been by an individual success story was blank Ryan leaf and his recovery The most heartbroken I've been by something that we have filmed is blank Every player that gets cut on Hard Knocks. Oh, sweet.

Why do you do it that way? Why do you, why? Players get cut. Okay. You can't be emotional about it when you're making movies when you're doing. Heartless. No, but Ken is in front of players all the time, Ken. Is he human?

I see country ballads in the shower, you know, and in the shower I sing Country Ballads in the shower. In the shower I sing Country Ballads sad and cry after these things. Ken, thank you for being on with us. We appreciate the insight and appreciate the work, sir. Alright, thanks for having me. Howdy folks, it's Mike. By now you know how about game time I am. And I'm converting my friends and my family one by one and I'm

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