The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - Hour 2: Eat S**t, Mike Ryan

Episode Date: June 10, 2025

Zaslow gives us his Top 5 Dawgs From Game 3 and the list is so loaded it doesn't even include Sergei Bobrovsky. Should it be a thing that when your favorite team wins you tell the people that hired you to eat s**t? Also, gotta watch out for Luisssssssss. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Quervo. The tequila that invented tequila. Proximo. Quervo.com. Please drink responsibly. Quervo. This is the Don Leventor Show with the StuGuts Podcast. I've made a terrible error here as part of the presenting coverage for the NHL playoffs

as the reigning champion team and the cover of that team. The mistake that I have made is you guys do realize that as a show we have not celebrated nearly enough the fact that Mike Ryan is on the verge of an all time bad take when it comes to the Panthers acquiring Brad Marchand. I always make him Marchand even though it's Marchand because I always want to make it a little bit extra French, which is correct because I always make it Marchand when I see extra French, which is correct, because I always make it Marchand

when I see the spelling, but it's Marshand, correct? No, it's Marshand. Nah, it's Marshand. People definitely say Marshand a lot. I don't know what it actually is. Regardless. And you call his nickname Marshie or Marchie, because I say Marchie.

I go Marshie. Marshie. Is it Marshand or is it Marshand? Marshand. Marshand. Marshand. Okay, we can't get agreement on this, and I'm going to need it Marshand? Marshawned. Marshawned. Marshawned. Okay, we can't get agreement on this and I'm going to need it because he's a Panthers legend. We need to get his name right.

Such a legend! I mean, he's a legend! Such a legend! Dan, he had the greatest individual performance, game two, he had the greatest individual performance in Panthers history. I'm not talking about the biggest goal, although the goal was obviously enormous, but he also had a shorty earlier in the game, in a game that, if you don't want to call it must have been fun, have to win down one game to none? Have to. That was a have to win game. He had the greatest individual performance in panthers history.

Let me play again this video of the other night because Ethan spoke for a lot of people with what he sneaks in at the Back end of this when the Panthers win in double overtime you can hear Ethan have a little message for Mike Ryan The Braves win! Yeah! Woo! Woo! Woo! Yeah! Yeah! Oh my God!

What a wonderful world! We're going to the next round tomorrow! Woo! Oh my God! Oh my God! Let's go! Oh This place is a real world shit! Yeah! Mike Ryan, eat shit! Mike Ryan, eat shit! 26th Eastern! That's my show!

You gotta sing All I Do Is Win there. Ethan, spot on. No, you can't do that. You can't do that if you look like Ethan. You cannot say that if you are Ethan. You cannot sing that and then tell Mike Ryan to eat shit when Mike Ryan hired you. I did all of that too.

He said in that, I can breathe again. I said that, I sang all I do is win and I told Mike Ryan to eat shit. I was at a different location saying the exact same things as Ethan. That should be a thing that when your favorite team wins, you tell people who hired you to eat shit. Put it on the poll at Levit a thing that when your favorite team wins, you tell people who hired you to eat shit. Put it on the poll at Levitard Show.

When your favorite team wins, should you tell the people that hired you to eat shit? We've got before Zaslow gets out of here, because he's got a meteoric rise on ESPN radio to take care of, top five dogs from game three. I know we've all been waiting for it. You could have gotten that exclusively on Zaslow 2.0, but he gives it to us. He's bringing us the good stuff as an employee

here throughout the hockey season of Metal Arch Media. Are you ready for top five dogs from game three? Dominique, are you ready? I don't feel like you're ready for this. I'm ready now. All right. Number five or OLI? No, no, we're just going right into it. Number five. Okay. No foreplay, nothing. Just right into it. Number five or O-L-I? No, no, we're just going right into it. Number five. Okay, no foreplay, nothing. Nope, just right into it. Number five.

Number five, top five dogs, also cats, from last night. Okay, dogs and cats. Number four, because they're cats, Dominique. They're my dogs, but they're cats, they're pandas. Top five dogs. All right, number five. Keep up. Aaron Ekblad.

Yes. Did you see when he put Conor McDavid on his ass? Oh, he was like, he couldn't... That's right! He looked like he never knew, he never even even know how to skate! Alright! That's right! That little pink right there. That's classic, that's vintage Zabla right there.

That's right! Number 4! Niko Mikola! He was your boy! You see at the end of the game, we're close to the end of the Number four, Nico Micola. Who's your boy? You see at the end of the game, we're close to the end of the game there, Corey Perry's looking for somebody to fight.

Nico Micola turned, laughed, and pointed at him. Anytime you point and laugh at somebody, laughing at somebody is super disrespectful, but pointing and laughing, that's what makes him my dog he's number four number three Jonah Gadjovich. Only number three. That's right it's a great list today Jonah Gadjovich look Oilers didn't get the memo they get these hands for free two for one all day so the hands are for free two for one all day and all night maybe they received the memo after the game if they're two for one the free yeah it's what I'm saying what part are you not understanding, Tony? They're free, and it's two for one, and it's all day.

Yeah. No, no, I get it now. Number two, Brad Marshand. Ah! He shit my pants. Florida Panther legend Brad Marshand gets the scoring started less than a minute in. They were still showing the starting lineup graphics

on the television screen when Marshand scored that goal to put the cats up one nothing Brad Marchand. That's my dog right there So hold on hold on so we're not even at number one yet But we're we're two games away from all-time bad take from Mike Ryan are you guys in agreement? Well that I have not Pointed this out enough or celebrated enough that he's been really wrong for three rounds in two games. Well he has backpedaled on he's playing well. He has acknowledged that Marshawn is playing well.

At the beginning of the playoffs, he was saying he's not even good. He said he's a bad player! He said he wanted to be a healthy scratch. Now he's just leaning on I won't root for him, but he has played well. He's backtracked. He has no choice!

I mean Marshawn has been the best player by far for us shit Well, he hasn't been the best player cuz that's reserved to number one me which of course is my dog Sam Bob not even make this list for words talk about last night all right make this list. Four, well just talk about last night. Alright, 14 goals in the post-season, 12 on the road, but he mixed in one at home last night of course, and it capped off the, probably the greatest shift in Florida Panthers history, where he lays a hit on not just one guy, but another guy. He did get the memo actually, that they can get those hands for free, two for one specials all day, and then at the end of that same shift,

a breakaway where E2, Lloyds, Three, and said, here, you take it, you take it, you don't need me, you do it on your own. And of course, he beats Skinner, top shelf, where Mrs. Mueller keeps the peanut butter, and Sam Bennett's number one dog from last night. Verhege doesn't even make the list. Thank you. Where was Seth Jones on this list? It's not top six Dominique, top five. If it's free can I get three for one all day? They don't have three arms.

It comes in increments of two. No one on that ice had three arms. No one did. Why are you not understanding? Two hands, it's two for two for one. Like eight people fighting all day. All day. All night as well. Zazzle's got to go. He's got big, he's a big rising star at ESPN radio. You just saw why. Cause he's got dogs that are cats and he's got a top five and Bob's not even on it. See you later. Pink man group. That is a good one. Pink man Group is good. I like that one. When performing in Vegas with his ass low. Somebody said the other day that Rick Carlisle looks like a down on his luck retired Blue Man Group member.

That Rick Carlisle has given off a lot of that. Like, tells the young Blue Maners what's what from their past. A lot of Vegas in his past. Yeah. It's a lot of long nights. Dirty early Vegas there when the blue man group was coming up with all the toilet paper in the audience stick Rick Carlisle wrote it to great fame. I wanted to ask you guys about Jason kid to the Knicks is this So New York has its best team in 25 years a team with expectations

Tom Thibodeau is in arguably the best coach they've had since pat riley in terms of results they keep getting fifty win seasons they're better than they've been in twenty five years he gets fired and the idea is bring in somebody who's not that so jason kids not that but when i think of jason kid i don't know how you guys regard him as a coach but having watched the entirety of his career where he's a college basketball player who's having trouble with drunk driving incidents to being a great point guard that wins a championship by becoming someone who can three-point shoot somehow one of the few

players i've ever seen go from not good shooter to good shooter where i've seen that park of his career has the respect of others as a point guard and is the players coach who will do things in his inaugural season like get a timeout by spilling a soda on the floor on purpose and illegally and getting fined for it but I don't think of him as a take the next step coach I think of him somebody this that the players will like do I have this wrong no it feels like he's a guy that will get you to the playoffs, right? He got, obviously, took Luca.

Luca took him all the way to the NBA Finals. But it doesn't feel like he's the guy that you bring in to be like, oh, this is the guy that's going to take the ceiling off of what we're doing here and take us to the next level. I've thought a number of times that Jason Kidd's career is over as a coach, and it's never over. I don't think the next take you to the next level coach is always the coach

that you expect. Normally those guys have jobs, so you have to have some projection. And I would argue that a point guard is the type of coach, a former point guard is the type of coach that a team like the Knicks could use coming off of Thibodeau because Thibodeau and correct me if I'm wrong, I would say the assessment of Thibodeau always he's not a great exes and those guys that he's a he's a tough hard-nosed coach who's gonna grind his guys down but he's not going to be the guy i don't think adjacent kid is great exes and

those guy i know it knows the game but i don't like i don't know why it is that you guys would put him in the class of that look there were three guys that got this coming up okay point guard who might be a coach because he was cerebral. It was Derek Fisher, it was Steve Kerr, and it was Jason Kidd. It was the three of them.

Well, I don't think Steve Kerr got it. Steve Kerr was thought of as a good coach when he became a good coach, but I don't think, I mean, Steve Kerr wasn't like running any team that he was on, he wasn't. Steve Kerr was the GM with the Suns, and then him and Derek Fisher both got offers with no coaching experience of five years 25 million dollars to coach the Knicks and the Warriors and but they didn't they

didn't deserve those jobs or those contracts there were just two guys hey they're really smart at basketball let's hire them Jason Kidd cut the line the same way none of them trained as coaches they were just great as players agreed and I think that if we're going over going off of how trained as coaches. They were just great as players. Agreed. And I think that if we're going over, going off of how great as a player someone was in the type of player that they were, I would think Jason Kidd fits that category. The only point that I'm trying to make

is when you come into this conversation saying, I don't think he's a get you to the next level coach, get you to the next level coaches aren't available. I think it might be unfair for me to tell you to name the guy who's available right now to get because you haven't thought about it, but I think it's probably pretty hard. I'm going through my mind of like available coaches

and trying to think who I know will get you to next level. And to your point, there was nothing about, you said that Steve Kerr skipped the line. He obviously was a get you to the next level coach. At that time, no one thought he was. That's the thing, Mark Jackson you felt was the guy, the motivator. He's the preacher, the pastor that's going to get all these guys ready to go.

It felt odd to move on from him at that point. You get this guy who's a GM, who was on the broadcast, and it's like, OK, sure. He was around Popovich. He was around Phil Jackson. But is that going to actually seep in and osmosis turn you into a good coach? And then all of a sudden, they're dynastic and great for 10 years. You guys aren't of the belief that there is a coach that exists, a person, anybody, anybody you choose,

that is making the Knicks championship worthy based on those same players that they have. Because I feel like that team got its ceiling. And it's no indictment of that team. You can get to the final four. You might even get to the final two, but not good enough to win the championship. Not unless somebody gets hurt. Not unless they just happen to be playing games and then Shay Gilgis Alexander gets hurt. But you tell me there's a

human being that you guys think exists that he will do something with X's and O's or she will do something. Either gender. Anybody on earth that will make the Knicks appreciably better with that same personnel? Stan Van Gundy. Can't disagree with that. Man, those are two big failures on Stan's resume. The last two, Detroit and New Orleans,

neither of which has recovered from what happened there. Pistons got a little bit, you know, pistons are on their way. Quietly. Okay. The pistons did recover, but- Shh, quietly. Well, this is the thing about this that is really stupid. The pistons are on their way. Quietly. Okay, the Pistons did recover, but. Shh, quietly. Well, this is the thing about this that is really stupid.

The Pistons are just a great example. I will remind you that it wasn't but a couple of seasons ago that the highest paid coach in the NBA was Pistons coach, Monty Williams, who got fired and then the team got good. And so when we do this stuff with leadership, like, it is pretty dumb to think, I think it's pretty dumb to think that I'm gonna get

someone who's appreciably better than Tom Thibodeau. I don't think that's pretty dumb. I do think that to your first point, because of their defensive deficiencies, I think it's probably unlikely that they are going to win a championship barring any sort of like wild happenstance or stroke of luck. But I do think that the small changes

can make a team appreciably better. And I don't know what those changes are because I'm not a coach, but I think the course of a season and the course of a playoff run, the ability to develop a culture that can adapt, I think is one of the things that we're solving for in a lot of these pro sports now

is the teams that can adapt more quickly. And OKC is a team because of their roster depth and because of the intelligence and flexibility of their players, is that they can adapt within the game, from game to game. And that's the thing that we saw that the Knicks were unable to do. Even though they have some pretty flexible players, it didn't seem like they did a whole bunch. Like their big move was to change the starting lineup when they already down Way down in that final series

I they just didn't seem to have any other moves and so I Get the idea that we want to bring somebody that we we think will be willing to try move do something Knock a couple on the court. Get me a timeout I don't know but even if you think someone's going to make them appreciably better than Thibodeau, Jason Kidd? That's the thing. Jason Kidd's been like, he's always been attached to somebody great, right? Milwaukee, he had Giannis. In Dallas, he had Luca. He was an assistant coach who was there with Lebron. Like, you start seeing all these trends and like, is Jalen Brunson that guy who can carry a team? He's done it. He's taken him to the Eastern Conference finals. But is Jason Kidd the X's

and O's guy? No, is he the motivator? Sure, okay, but so was Thibodeau. And like, now where are we? Why are we separating those things though? Like if one can only be an X's and O's guy and one of them, that's all I got. I got no motivation in me. I can either be Tony Robbins or I can be Pete Carroll.

It's relatability, right? That's what you're looking for. When you're going for a Thibs type to a former player, it's like maybe you're looking for someone who relates to the players more. Is that how simplistic we're doing it? I don't know. But just when it comes to leadership, I'll get off of this in a second,

but it seems like a pretty important job, and we really do seem to like the idea that some leader has an idea that other leaders don't have. We like to believe in that, and I just keep asking you, so Jason Kidd's the one we're doing it with, right? seem to like the idea that some leader has an idea that other leaders don't have. We like to believe in that and I just keep asking you, so Jason Kidd is the one we're doing it with, right? We're going to, okay, so Jason Kidd's got whatever magical elixir it is that Dominique thinks or anybody thinks will make the Knicks better than the Pacers because they have some

adjustments in the margins that can be made to take advantage over a seven game series of Pacer weaknesses. And also, am I crazy or he's still under contract with Dallas, so like how is that gonna turn into, are you gonna give picks, you're gonna give play, you're gonna do something and make a trade for Jason Kitt? When you have deficiencies on your roster and you're gonna be giving them away

to then get a coach or not a player? Another maverick trade, oh boy. What gets people excited as a Knicks, like I saw that Patino said, hell no, when asked the other day. Yeah, but you know. Jay Wright, I feel like, would have got people happy. Jay Wright already said, like, I'm retired.

I don't want to do it. Those rumors and out there, like, it's not happening. But like, man, I would have been excited for that if I was. So those are just names, though, right? I've seen the whole Patino thing. I saw it in New York. I've seen it. I know what it is.

The 90s are back, though, Dan. Across the world. I get that they're just days. And I get your point. I don't disagree with you, Dan. But that's all we got. Like, normally in an interview, there'll be your point. I don't disagree with you, Dan, but that's all we got. Normally in an interview, there'll be a series of interviews

which includes the coach then giving their vision to the ownership and the decision makers. No one's gonna give us a press conference where they give us our vision. We're just going based on what we know of guys. You got a big name, we know you've had success on other, that's what we're basing on. It just seems kind of silly, though.

I got an ex as an old guy guy or I got a motivator. That's how I'm analyzing leadership. What if the Knicks do to the Heat what the Heat did to the Knicks? Ooh. We stole Riley. Little spo, you swipe. I mean Dan, if you're spo do you say no?

No reason to stay down here. I don't know why it is that we do this. Forgive me for ever bringing it up because I did get ensnared in recycled Jason Kidd talks. So. That would look good in New York. I wish instead to detour into what it is that it felt like Dominique was trying to

and successfully convincing the group of before the show. Correct me if I have the argument wrong, but you said that marriages. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Be careful with my boy. Happily married, look at that wedding ring. You see any pinky rings on my boy? Remember what Juju said yesterday in the post,

we don't wanna make more work for him after the show. Oh, no, no, no, you're not gonna make any work for me. That's the thing is I'm not concerned. This is a funny little detour, so I had to tell my son that I'm not concerned. So they were flying down on a different flight for me, my wife and my three kids. And so my son texted me,

hey dad, I was like, what's up? He said, I think you got some competition. I was like, what are you talking about? He said, mom's laughing a little hard at the Uber driver's jokes. And I was like, I'm not worried. And he said, but his name is Luis. And he put like 10 S's on the text. And I was like, I'm not worried. And he said, but his name is Luis. And he put like 10 S's on the text.

And I was like, what? I love that. And he said, Luis. How old is your son taunting you that your wife is flirting with the Uber driver? He's 12. And then he was like. You gotta watch Luis.

He said, mom must be pretty because it's a shock that this Uber driver is flirting with her when she has two annoying kids. And I texted back, there's three of you. I said annoying. I was like, got me, you got me. I had to admit, I was a little proud of it. His little jokes make a lot of people laugh.

They mostly get on my nerves. That was a solid running joke. So he little jokes make a lot of people laugh. They mostly get on my nerves. That was a solid, like, running joke. So he was very much listening to what was going on in the car. So I told my wife about it later, and she said he had his AirPods on the whole time. She noticed that, huh? Yeah.

Oh! Oh, yeah. Everyone noticed Luis. And any time you get into his Uber, which smells like cologne and feet. Oh Tell me I'm wrong I think if he's spitting game and try to do his work early Why we talk about getting in the post and doing your work early before you actually have to do any moves, right?

That's the key. I think I think least has so much game that he can overcome the smell of feet and cologne in there There may be other sure. This is not our Lewis because he wasn't here yesterday. He does have game It's not Lewis. No Lewis. There's a difference between Lewis and we I do believe I call him Luis Your limited fake skipper is I do believe so remarkably limited and not you it's got range Dan It doesn't it in a bunch of different places. It's just never, it's always I do believe and then it's foghorn, leghorn. It's not any, there's nothing to the impersonation. It stinks. Okay now Dan LeBautop. It stinks. That's how he says your name, come on. But he does have trouble with Latin names, so it does become Louis. Hello, Luis.

Or Luis. So the thing that Dan was trying to get to before I sidetracked us with the story. It was a 2012 Washington Post article to be clear on what the starting point of this story is. Well, the starting point was, I don't wanna put anybody's business out there, but someone was saying that they were celebrating

their fourth wedding anniversary, and then that person also said out of ten. And I was like what? I was like what? You got a plan for it? But what I didn't understand was the person was saying that they've been together for ten years but only married for four. So that's what got me down the track of like, it's like you got a lease.

So I Googled it and there was an article that I read in there and then it made a compelling argument for reducing the divorce rate by having, it's a little, you just, all right, we gonna lock this in for five years. It's like this for five years, we discuss it at the end of five. Locking it for 10, we check it out again. It's like a team option.

Contract year. Yeah. Renegotiate. Renegotiate. I mean you got it sometimes. You're working out. It's like yeah contract year trying to keep her. Yeah you gotta get in shape that year. Refinance. Yeah the vacations get a little bit better. You put in a little extra work in all areas. But then you sign that deal and then what's the next year? Are you hungry? Are you good enough? Like Ray Lewis? Or are you Dominique Fox?

We're saying on a Thursday night in Cleveland. You know what? I don't care this much Oh, no, I'm crying in the tunnel on the Thursday night in Cleveland for my marriage. I He losing that I gotta gots to have it. I Don't know what the divorce rate is Is it 50% still on the divorce rate and the other 50% aren't going great all the time. Do you have everybody in a terrible marriage? What percentage of marriages are really happy? See, this is where I was headed with this.

So 50% fail outright, we can't be around each other anymore. But some percentage of the next 50%, we can all agree on, are also failures. 30% are miserable. Are also failures. I'm going 20% are happy. I don't know what the number is, but I'm sorry I made it everybody, Also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, also, are though, Dominique is saying, let's rethink this whole thing based on a 2012 Washington Post article, and instead of making them lifetime contracts,

make them leases. Make the marriage contract that you get at the courthouse renewable every five years. I mean, you can pick whatever duration you want, but like, you can, I personally, I signed a lifetime deal. I'm out here, Max Blaine. Sign a lifetime deal, because I got to.

That's what I needed. I already know, I gots to have. Got at a good number though. I mean, you just made marriage a Honda. He just- I mean, my marriage is not a Honda. I'll tell you that much right now. You can get a much better deal

if you just commit to the long term. This is your financial advice here? It's sound. It's sound. The psychology of it though is a little weird because I do whatever my wife and I have some disagreement, it never even crosses my mind because it's permanent. This is it. If we fight, disagree, like, all right, but this is it.

You better figure it out. I better figure it out. We're all the happy ones like we're that 20% all of us here. We're all in that 20% We're happy oddball next All right, y'all the Super Bowl is in the rearview mirror the draft has come and gone. So now what now? It's time to get the crew together. You keep the fandom energy going. It doesn't stop when the Super Bowl is gone We gather exactly and look just because the pads are off doesn't mean game day stops. Around here, we do game days. Even in the offseason. And what better way to do that than with a cold drink and your people around. You've

heard it all season long. Football is not a solo thing. It's a this is not a me thing. This is not an I thing. This is a we thing. There is no I in fandom, baby. So grab your crew, grab some Smirnoff and get into that offseason groove. Summer workouts, training camp rumors, fantasy football prep. It's all coming, folks. And listen, if you're going to sip something while plotting your team's comeback, Smirnoff's got you. It's the perfect vodka for crafting cocktails that are easy and tasty for anyone 21 and up. Smirnoff isn't just a vodka it's the number one vodka in the world and the official partner of the NFL. Grab a bottle of Smirnoff at your local retailer and head to smirnoff.com

to find recipes of delicious cocktails perfect for game day. Please drink responsibly Smirnoff number 21 vodka distilled from grain. 40% alcohol by volume. The Smirnoff company. New York, New York. Please do not share with anyone under legal drinking age. Roy, you know that moment when you're out watching puck and the server comes over and asks the table, what can I get you guys? And everyone freezes up. You know what you should do? What should I do Mike? You've got to have some confidence! Or as Jägermeister calls it shot-fidence. I love it. If everyone's struggling take control just order for the whole table a round of ice cold Jägermeister shots. Damn that's cold because apparently we've all been drinking Jägermeister wrong. Well how should we be drinking

it? We should be drinking it ICE COLD! At zero degrees Fahrenheit, Roy, like Jägermeister, what else is infinitely better ice cold? The sport of hockey Mike. It's in the name! It's ice hockey! Ice hockey! Yes, regular hockey, not as great. Not floor hockey. Ice hockey, real good. Damn right. Wherever you are, if you're hanging with friends or at the bar, call the shots! Cheers with ice cold shots of Jägermeister! Damn that's cold! And remember to check Jägermeister out at DraftKingsXJägermeister.com

Drink responsibly Jägermeister Liqueur 35% Alcohol by Volume, imported by Mass Jägermeister US, White Plains, New York. Shot for Dence! NASCAR is going international. For the first time ever, the Cubs series heads to Mexico City. And it's all going down Sunday, June 15th at 3pm Eastern, only on Prime. They'll be taking on Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez, one of the most iconic road courses in the world. And for Daniel Suarez, it is a true homecoming. Expect the crowd to be loud, the world. And for Daniel Suarez, it is a true homecoming.

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Yeah. Stugatz You think you're big time? Well you're gonna die! in Carlito's way if I do it for you. I think it's pretty good. Yeah. Okay. Stugats. You think you're big time? When you're gonna die. Big time. That is on my infamous scale of one to 10. That's a 7.6.

Solid. Good job. Good job. That's a suey6. Solid. Good job, guys. Good job. Good job. That's a suey nominee right there. That's really good. Yeah. This is the Don LeBattar Show with the StuGats.

We got ourselves an NBA finals, ladies and gentlemen, because the Oklahoma City Thunder went ahead and tied it all up. It's one-one now as the series shifts to Indiana. Was there fear that the patients would run away with it and go up 2-0 and then say, hey, the series is over? I wouldn't say there was fear, but definitely they were a lot... The crowd was a lot less confident last night.

Like when they were up and the Pacers make it 3, you start to hear that murmur of like, wait a second, we've watched this movie again. So Izzy, one of the things people like to say is that, you know, the success breeds copycats. And so our producers were wondering of these two teams, the Pacers and the Thunder, which success would be easier for other teams to copycat? Hmm.

That's a good question. Like, so let's look at what these models are. Right? So we've got OKC, which is very much a one man sort of centerpiece in terms of offense. And everything flows through him by far the best player. And again, give one the MVP. So you could argue best player in the league right now with quality pieces around them. A bunch of two way players, little freakish athlete in size there and Chet Holmgren. The other side being the Indiana Pacers, more of a style team, right?

They run, they play on, you know, they play like Tyrese Halliburton, right? But it's also the coaching that helps you get there. It's also the personnel, three point shooters, a bunch, a couple of two-way players. To me, I think the Oklahoma City one's harder to replicate because I think I'm talking about the quality of the player at the top. So you need to have MVP level guy. You need to have Kobe. You need to have SGA. You need to have, I don't know, Kevin Durant, Steph Curry, that type of player at the top. And then with proper coaching, with proper people around you build that team that can operate around that one

guy. That takes a lot, right? That takes chemistry, that takes right decisions on the players. The other one is very much a style situation. It is running. It is again, not easy because Tyrese Halliburton's skill set is not similar to every other point card out there. But I would say that's easier to replicate because you can create the style and create the pieces around it

without meeting that one person that's best in the league overall. Like I know it's difficult to find a quality point guard of Halliburton's caliber, but find the best player in the league. Let me tell you, while I hear you about SGA, the best player in the league is definitely not easy to find, right? These guys are rare. But I think Tyrese Halliburton might be even rarer because we're talking about a pure point guard in today's NBA who is of a star caliber, not a backup, not a guy who just comes out and there facilitates like star caliber.

It's almost impossible to find because right now in the art development system, if you are a smart player with handles and can shoot, guess what they're making you do? They're making you play it, become a scorer. They're making you become SGA, who by the way is the starting point guard for the Oklahoma City Thunder. We don't think about that because he does lead them in scoring.

And so for me, I think it's way harder. I know you're talking about the Pacers style. The Pacers style emanates from Tyrese Halliburton. The coaching that Rick Carlisle does, he's able to do it because he has Tyrese Halliburton. If he had a different point guard, I guarantee we wouldn't see Rick B as laissez-faire with their situation. And so to me, it's so rare to find a guy like Halliburton who's legitimately elite and desirous of playmaking. But if he needs to score, if he needs to shoot, he's really good at that, too.

In many ways, like there's always an SGA in the league. Yeah, I guess that's where I could I could lean your way is that I could replicate the style of play that Indiana does with the right pieces, but not at this level, right? Not at this caliber to get me to the finals. There's been a lot of good run and gun teams that are fun to watch. But yeah, you're saying to get that to this level, you need Tyrese Halliburton. And that's harder to find because there's more as I'll give you that.

I will say that the formula seems like it makes it's been done before more with the way that the Thunder have done it. I just find it hard to replicate because you again still have to have the best player. We they're both really hard to replicate. Like let's make it clear. Like, oh yeah, why don't we just do that? Oh, there's reasons like you don't have SGA. You don't have Tyrese Halliburton.

I guess my thing is the basketball factory that is youth basketball, college basketball, and even early NBA basketball puts guys like that in that mold. Oh, you're good. You're gonna be like SGA. We're gonna feed you like SGA. I'm not saying you're gonna be as good as, but that's the model in which we start to craft your game from a very young age. And like I say this about Steve Nash years and years ago, when you think about the great passers, right? Even if you go to the NBA history, like the great pass first guys, guys that made plays for others,

most of them weren't good shooters to start with, right? It's almost an evolution thing, right? Why are you such a good passer? Cause I didn't like shooting cause I wasn't good at it. So I do all of this right? Like Magic Johnson wasn't a great shooter. Right. But love doing all this. But when they back off of you, you've got no choice but to learn how to shoot.

Sure. Exactly. Jason Kidd is another one. Right. Like they might get to the place because they're great players and they develop into that. But the essence of like a 10 year old Magic Johnson, a 12 year old Jason kid was, yeah, I'm doing this because I can't do this. Steve was always a great shooter who chose to pass, which is weird, which is weird because A, like if you're such a great shooter, why don't you just keep shooting as a 50, 40, 90 guy?

Why are you averaging only 16, 18 points? But the other part of it is it's like, oh, I need to shoot. OK, I'll do it. And like when the necessity comes and then how do you guard that guy? Right. Yeah. And that's that's Halliburton closer and guys like that. Like I said, few and far between most of the guys. If you're a good shooter, you're going to be encouraged

to shoot the ball a hundred times. I will say that like Tyrus Halliburton is an easier guy, not necessarily to replicate, but to wrap your mind around. Oh, OK, that's a team that you could say was led by a similar leader. You just mentioned the Phoenix Suns there. The one that's interesting to me, SGA, like I get what he is, right? In terms of head the snake leader for a team score as a from a guard position. But like how he got there and you know,

whether we can see that coming again for somebody else, I don't think we can, because the dude, you know, was number 11 in the draft, fell that far. I was traded after his rookie season. That's probably the one where you're just like, wait a second, most of these guys who are MVP are not traded after the rookie season. But I don't know if this is a question of how we find the next SGA, or do we sort of try to figure out what this SGA really is? Because in my mind, I very much point to the 06 finals with Dwayne Wade,

where in his third year everybody saw this guy coming out and oh wow, this guy's great. With SGA, a little bit different, but it's also like, I don't know. We didn't expect it. And so now that we're seeing it, we're sort of wrapping our minds around what it could be. Well, I got to give credit to the Clippers because the day that like right when they did that Paul George trade, they were telling everybody, man,

we would have given up 10 more picks just to keep SGA. Like, so they knew they knew he was special. Did they know he was this special? Maybe not, but they knew for sure he was someone, like they had no qualms. They gave up a boatload of rat picks that the Thunder is still feasting off of. And they literally lost no sleep over that, but they lost sleep over losing SGA.

I don't know that- Wasn't it Patrick Beverly who says that he told him when he was in the Clippers practice, like, you can be Kobe good, like you're that level of good. him when he was in the Clippers practice, like you can be Kobe good, like you're that level of good. And maybe that's where the Clippers are just like, Hey, maybe he's right. That story is according to whom? According to Patrick Beverly. Oh, I think SGA has confirmed it though.

Yeah. That's like when LeBron said I turned on the TV and I saw Kobe warming up and I said, Oh, he's about to have like 80 today. Well, I mean, again, if SGA confirms it, I believe him, but he's a nice guy. He's a nice Canadian boy. It's a polite thing to do. Right. So you can have the polite thing to do. The polite thing to do is to acknowledge that he's scored more points in the first two games of the finals debut than the one and only Allen Iverson, who had 48 in his debut. So one would think he had a huge early lead on that.

And so we got to ask this, Izzy, who would you take SGA or let's start with 01 Iverson? Who would you take? I think they call this like an elevator series, right? So if you open up the elevator and it's like, oh, Dwayne Wade's there. Do I go with him or do I take the guy I'm standing with SGA, right? Yeah, let's start with Ivers with him or do I take the guy I'm standing with SGA?

Let's let's throw it. Iverson. Look, that's the guy he just passed. All right. I'm definitely taking SGA. I think what, you know, obviously size factors in. He's a better defender. Probably a more efficient scorer. And yeah, I think it's just a new evolution of today's game. And no knock on Iverson. I just take SGA.

Counterpoint. As Jayden step over someone's carcass. Yes. If you want the all time highlight, yeah, you got Iverson. All right. So everyone, just so you know, I know where Izzy's weak points are. It's like you did to SGA or 06 Dwayne Wade. Oh man. Look, I'll be a hundred percent honest. In terms of knowing how you're going to get it, where you're going to get it.

Start the possession. I know this dude's good. It's SGA over Dwayne Wade. Like it is right. Wow. Wow. Dwayne led the league in scoring one time, but it wasn't really what he wanted or needed to do.

Like SGA, it's just part of what he does. Like he's going to give you 35 and there's really nothing you can do about it. And in today's game, like I think it's just now Dwayne will give you other stuff. It'll block more shots. It'll probably get more steals defensively, maybe a couple of pick sixes that SGA didn't. But in terms of like affecting winning, I think they're both right there. So maybe it's pretty of the moment, but I'm taking current SGA. OK, man, I didn't I didn't have

Absolutely not. All right, let's let's take it up a notch. What about 2000 Kobe Oh frobi Kobe against the Pacers in the finals Kobe to Shaq Alley-oop against the Blazers is gonna sound crazy. I'm gonna sound crazy. Come on. What the hell does SGA look like with Shaq? Woo. Look, I tell you what, I'm going to tell you why. I think Kobe was a more talented player. He was certainly a more explosive athlete, right.

At that moment. But the maturity, I think SGA got a lot more maturity here, man. I am also like, look, here's the main thing. I don't know what his numbers would be, but I know if SGA was playing with Shaq Shaq wouldn't be mother f***** that dude. Like the way he did Kobe. Right. So I'm going to stay with Shaq. I mean, I'm sorry. I'm going to stay with SGA over froby. Let's go one more. How about Michael Jordan, 1991? His first final. This is where I might be stepping off the elevator.

I think you've got deploy level MJ and you know, one, two dribble pull up and just, I have to get off the elevator here. A spectacular move. A spectacular move by Michael Jordan. All right, well last one, Steph Curry 2015. I mean, I'm already off the elevator, but I'll jump out the window for Steph Curry.

I think I'm gonna take him and that whole universe he creates just with his skillset. This is again, this is what I'll tell people like, especially people are like, oh, he didn't play well in 2015. He put deli in the hospital. For real. Like he is everything. He hospitalized the man. Yeah. So, so there it is. I'm shocked that you, me and Michael Jordan are now on a, what is it? A three way date? We're just in an elevator. What are you talking about?

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