The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - Hour 2: Have You Ever Seen Me Do a Puzzle?

Episode Date: April 8, 2025

Do all-time legacies create joy? Dan and his extortionists discuss. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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This is the Don Leventor Show with the Stookats Podcast. This is the Don Leventor Show with the StuGuts Podcast. Like imagine if Tomlin and Bill Cower were both the head coaches of the Pittsburgh Steelers. Same time. Imagine that. Like how would that work out? Who has final play? Who has final say on play calls? Who has final say on do we go for it or not?

Who's calling timeouts? Right. I mean, not gonna work. I mean, Shanahan reached out to Belichick to be a defensive coordinator. That would have been the worst decision of Shanahan's career. That's what I'm saying. Then if they finally win, it was all Belichick.

I mean, think about it. So you guys do not believe that two big talented people can work together, that ego, that no, no big talented people have self-awareness about how it is that they would collaborate with someone else who might have strengths in other places that they don't have it's why I'm here why are you here and you haven't been recently I was traveling I know but like why explain to me you're here balance you're here to offer the accents.

You're getting caught up in the minutiae because I'm not a ball hog, I'm totally fine if I don't go an entire hour without saying a word here, put you with somebody else who's not me, and I have a lot of fear of what's gonna happen there. So you think that I- Way too much David, by the way. I came in here thinking Greg Cody was gonna be here.

Greg Cody Tuesdays. I left five, six weeks ago, and it was Greg Cody every Tuesday, and now we replaced that with Samson. Who's asking for more Samson? Wow. Nobody is the answer. Wow, man.

Love you, Dave. Let's go out to David Samson. Again? In the NASDAQ room, where we get an update on everything going on with the NASDAQ. What do we have David? Give us an update from the bustling floor of the NASDAQ. We have extreme wealth creation that's been taking place other than in Stu Gotts' account.

The reality is that whether you're Elon Musk or just your general retail investor, you've taken advantage of what could be a dead cat bounce. We'll have to wait to see. But meanwhile, Tesla up, draft kings up, market, yeah. A dead cat, yeah, that was disgusting. A dead cat bounce? I've not heard that expression before. That is an expression that's often used on Wall Street,

the dead cat bounce. How does a dead cat bounce?'s often used on Wall Street, the dead cat bounce. How does a dead cat bounce? I ask, not very high, but it does bounce. If you drop a cat and it's dead, it will come up and then right back down in a market. Do not buy the dead cat bounce because then you end up in trouble. Chris Cody, were you as disturbed as I was

after Stugatz gave voice to Who Wants More Sampson for him to go that lecherous with the making of money where his sound was sensual in a way that creeped us out and made me think about 10 days ago when him and Juju had that germ foboff, I was disturbed by how eager David Sampson was to have an orgy as disturbed as I was by anything David Sampson has said or done since he mispronounced boobs in Spanish.

Taitas? You were disturbed by this, yes, Chris? Incredibly. Like, it was unpleasant to hear. I didn't know where it came from. Well, it's just money. Money makes him lecherous, money gives him a boner. Like that's- Taitas?

Damn. Boner. Chris. Letcherist money gives him a boner like that. Hey toss and moner Chris Money excites him in in a way that you know is pornographic and and Disturbing when he goes to letcherist. What else do you have for us in the two hours now that the Nasdaq has been open? Going back to him. Oh, You keep saying Nasdaq. Do you mean the exchange?

Because there's Nasdaq, there's the Dow, there's the S&P, there's the small cap, large cap, mid cap. I don't understand your infatuation with Nasdaq. Is that like the only thing you've heard of? It's not necessary at this point to keep pointing that out as if I'm not doing it on purpose. Like, I wasn't at the beginning,

but since then I'm doing it. Like, I learned my lesson and then ignored it. So what other updates do you have here? Because people have been panicked for three days and Stugats is saying that Trump is now walking around being like, told you it'd be fine. I told you there are no problems here. That's what we should be scared about actually

is the possible grift that could be taking place. Just be aware of it when you're in the market, when you're day trading, it's why you shouldn't be buying and selling on these dips or on these crests because any rumor about delaying the tariffs, any rumor about possibility of a trade war not escalating and the market goes up,

then the White House comes out and says, no, it's actually happening, the market goes down. Then there's something priced in and the market goes up, then the White House comes out and says, no, it's actually happening, the market goes down, then there's something priced in and the market goes up. It's very hard to really guess what Trump is doing and that's why it's really difficult, my professional advice, not investment advice, be very careful buying these dips, be very careful selling into these crests

because you may not time it right. I think you owe me and the public an apology for the lie that you told last hour when you said that I was lamenting and complaining loudly that a bunch of people were sucking at my teat. That is not something that has ever happened. You have never heard me say such a thing and I say that you need to apologize publicly. toss I will apologize Dan by saying that you've

built an entire room built on extortion and people who extort you that's basically the company that you have so while yes I shouldn't have said teet and I apologize for not pronouncing Teitas right but for you to say that I'm wrong when all you have to do is look around, it just means that your eyes are closed. You guys aren't paying very much attention if you don't think that you were just taken out there. Like you guys were all resembled.

David's here for free, huh? I resemble that remark. Mm-hmm. He called you extortionist. Yeah, I'm all right with that. Takes one to know one, I guess. Wow. Talk about it after the show.

Yeah. Got a multi-billion dollar Takes one to know one, I guess. Wow. Talk about it after the show. Yeah. Got a multi-billion dollar sale I'd like to run by him. The thing that I wanted to ask you guys about that I'm assuming you didn't talk very much about, although I don't know if you have or not, the firing of Taylor Jenkins in Memphis, super strange. You never see that nine games before a playoff team is beginning in, right before a playoff team is beginning in

You know right before the playoffs start you're throwing total upheaval from a team that we thought a Couple of years ago was going to be ascendant and I got wrong by the way How good Dylan Brooks is like I really thought that his career was gonna be over and to see him on a Houston team that's better than Memphis is part of why it is that Taylor Jenkins got fired the way that he did. But I also wanted to ask you, because I don't wanna talk about the stupidity of the John Morant or Yaa, as I like to call him,

finger gun stupidity, but I did want to ask you guys, when he hit a game winner over Khalil Ware and called him a pigeon, said that I had a pigeon guarding me and it was time to win the game and I got a bucket, I had never heard that expression before, calling someone a pigeon, nor do I know what it means,

not just in the context that he was using it, but why a pigeon? Did you guys understand the insult of that? Did anyone, am I the only one not having heard that as an insult? I've never heard it in a post-game interview. Somebody hit a game winner and say that a seven foot, a 20 year old seven footer who is wildly athletic

and can guard a lot of people but cannot, he wouldn't have said that of Bam, I don't think. But he did say it of Khalil Ware and I'm just curious, had you guys heard that as an insult before? Never heard it before but it's definitely the low end bird, right, we can all agree. Like, it's no hawk, it's no eagle. It is, it's a dumb bird as well,

but can you look it up for me as an insult? It's referenced in hockey more often. Would you be kind to me? I looked it up after, I wasn't even aware that it was in hockey vernacular, and then I also was like, what does this mean? Did he just invent a new insult? Because that's kind of cool,

but apparently guys who aren't really worth much are called pigeons in hockey, and I guess it's common use vernacular across all sports. Synonymous with a peasant. Right, also pigeons could be easily fooled or cheated, Dan. Often victims. Know your birds. I heard it one time and it was the response to,

I don't want no scrubs, that song from TLC. I don't want no pigeons, it was that. Oh, you're gonna sing it, I was excited for a second. I'm not singing that. What's a scrub? A scrub, I forgot. I'm not singing. What's a scrub? I almost got you. A scrub is a guy who thinks he's fine. Also known as a buster. Come on Roy do it. I almost got you. You saw what I was trying to do. I'm not doing it. Come on you almost took it. Wanted to ask you about an interview

that Carlos Alcaraz, I pronounce it the way that they would in Barcelona. Alcaraz. Alcaraz. He is now the second or third ranked player in the world, and he did an interview with GQ Spain in which he said, he was talking about mental health, and we've talked about some of this before with Marty Fish

and just the insanity that is the lonely, obsessive compulsiveness of specifically playing tennis, from a young age. Whatever it is, tennis, swimming, there are some sports that I recall. Well, but I- There's a loneliness to golf. And there's a great deal of guys struggling over mental hurdles in golf as well.

Yes, but I also think of golf, and I may be doing this incorrectly, I think of golf as being something that people really enjoy and do into their 60s and might be a suffering because it's hard and can be lonely as well, but generally I think that people love what they're doing when they're golfers. I cannot say the same about tennis, especially young people who have their childhood stolen by tennis because of how crazy the machine is at the beginning. I'm shocked at how few tennis players that I know like tennis. They hate it. They hate it. They like golf. They hate tennis.

I try to talk to them about tennis. They don't want to talk about tennis. They don't like it. It is a thing that I have noticed swimming is the same, right? Because when you're as good as Michael Phelps, there's a loneliness in the training that even if it's a team sport communally, the repetition of what it is that you're doing, you can grow to hate it.

But the thing that Carlos Alcaraf said, and again, it's awkward. Well, it's not, but no. It's Alcaraz. You guys are putting the Z on it. You're American. This just happened to me in Los Angeles. Everyone there calls it Los Feliz,

and I'm like, it's Los Feliz, and they're like, no, it's not, and they've changed it. They've changed it so they don't pronounce Los Feliz. They've made it Americanized. Why don't you call it Los Angeles? I should. Yeah, California's very famous for Americanizing Spanish words out there.

He says that he's prioritizing his mental health, and he doesn't particularly care about whether he's the best in the world or not. He says I was number one in the world and I was happy and now I'm number three in the world and I'm equally happy and he's just giving voice to balance and my question to you is is this something that you guys understand? Because it's almost never uttered by athletes where it's like, I'm good being in third place,

I don't need to be first. I'm not saying it's the case for all tennis players or all golf players, but they only care about the majors in those sports. And as long as you're winning majors, and he is, he's competing, he's making it to the finals, he's winning the actual majors, they don't care about the rest. I'm not saying everyone, I'm just saying I could see where Alcaraz is like, you know what, I'll be ready for the majors,

I'll compete in the majors, I don't care if I'm one, two, three, four, or five, I'm going to take my time the rest of the year. But that's not what he's saying. He's speaking to the mental health imbalance of, I need to be the best. I need to compare myself against others. Look, this one- Dan, I'm just saying the best in that sport is defined by the amount of majors you win. Period.

Is he practicing fewer hours? Is that what you say to be three? He did follow up in Indian Wells' final appearance, which he always performs well there, with a loss to a 34-year-old they've goffin' in Miami in the round of 64. It was a perplexing loss. And those comments, I mean, Akira says an opportunity to be all-time great, given his age, given the success that he's already had. And typically in that sport, guys that have that in front of them, they don't get quoted saying things like that. They often say the opposite. Like if Vavrinka wanted to say that when he was doing his best to get up to that

upper echelon and guys like Rodik Nadal, Jokovic and Federer were holding him down, I guess I understand. I'm playing against three of the greatest of all time in my era. That's unfortunate. But Al-Qarath, like he's the best going right now in terms of tools, in terms of athleticism. It's either him or Monfils, like those are two of the most athletic tennis players I think we've ever seen. And he's fine with third.

Wait till he gets down to like 12th or 13th. Then he's not gonna be so happy. And it's coming soon. Well, let's talk about this for a second because I will say to you that something that I have noticed later in life that was not so for me earlier in life is that I have had turned upside down

the nobility in being competitive. It was something that at one time in my life was important to me. What are you making faces about? Because you are competitive. No, listen. You're still competitive. No, listen, yes, but less so, and I've seen the nobility in it less,

and I've worked toward, like you can make all the faces you want, but I know the work I'm doing here, I know how I feel about this, and I'm vastly less competitive than I used to be, by leaps and bounds, and also, I've noticed the specific mental health challenges in social media media and always comparing yourself to somebody who you think is having something better as a life than you. I think this is affliction that is tormenting a lot of people with the disease that is the

addiction of social media. And so when he articulates something that in sports is viewed as wrong, bad, I don't care about being the best. I have stopped seeing the nobility in having to be better than person X. I'm number three now and I'm equally happy to when I was number one. It's an articulation I have not heard said publicly by athletes. I've heard it said privately, but this is someone who's actively choosing to tell you

my happiness is more important to me than this thing that makes me so competitive that it makes me unhappy. And I'm going to choose happiness over being the best. It's usually not something that people want from their athletes, and furthermore, it's not something that can be said in team sports. It's only something that can be said out loud if you're an individual because your teammates will not acknowledge that that's the way to be.

I'm not even sure how well that flies amongst his contemporaries in that sport. Many of them wishing that they had those tools. And if he had the will, he obviously has an opportunity to be all-time great. I mean, he's already borderline all-time great. He's already there, like, yes. Yeah, I heard those quotes and I was like, good for him.

He is not catching Djokovic. He's lying. It's either two choices. Either he's lying or he's gonna burn out like Carlene Bassett. And whatever he does, it doesn't really matter to me because that weakness that you show by saying that, I'm not saying you shouldn't go after mental health. I'm not saying you shouldn't be happy.

Weakness or strength, David? I don't think he's showing weakness. What he's saying is he doesn't have to put in the work and yet when he gets to the US Open and he takes on Sinner or Zevarev who are ranked ahead of him, he's going to beat them. And you know what? If you had an amount of money that meant something to you, you would bet on Alcares. You would. I want to be so sure he's beating them, but I would say that he's about to head into his best surface. It's clay court season, so I imagine he's going to be doing some sort of

winning here, but that is something that you kind of file away as he gets later in his career. Look, the longevity that the guys at the top end of that sport displayed where your career historically is usually over 10 years before they were still doing. Djokovic is still out here showing up in finals doing his things, beating Alcaraz in the Olympics. Like that that is something that you file away and wonder if he has the same kind of motivation. He may be motivated by winning in individual sports, but it doesn't sound like he's motivated by being all-time great. Mike, towards the end, wasn't Federer just gearing up for the majors? Like was barely playing and just gearing up for the majors?

Tiger did that too. Tiger did that too. It's normal. Yeah, and being ultra selective with the surface as well. Let's talk about something that makes watching college hoops even better. Evan Williams bourbon. It's Game Day's number one pour, the perfect addition

from tip-off traditions to buzzer beater celebrations. This award-winning bourbon is extra age for a taste that's smooth, rich, and easy to enjoy, whether neat, on the rocks, or in a classic cocktail. Personally, I like to drink it on the rocks. So, whether it's a pre-game pour or a post-win nightcap, make every game day moment even better with Evan Williams. Visit EvanWilliams.com to find a bottle near you.

Evan Williams Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey. Bardstown, Kentucky, 43 to 45% alcohol by volume. Enjoy responsibly, 21 and older. You may or may not know this, but 20 years ago, the origins of this very show were just a dream for Dan and Stugots. That dream turned into a show and a business you're listening to today. Starting your own business is a dream lots of us share, but too many of us let it remain just a dream. Don't hold yourself back thinking, what if I don't have the skills? What if I can't do it alone? Turn those what-ifs into why-nots with Shopify by your side. Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide, including 10% of all U.S. e-commerce. Whether you're Mattel or you're just

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shopify.com slash buttard. The Dan LeBattard Show with Stu Gotz is sponsored by BetterHelp. Life gets busy and your mind carries it all, but just like your body needs care, so does your mental health. This is an investment in clarity, in peace, in you. Let's talk numbers. Traditional in-person therapy can cost anywhere from $100 to $250 per session, which adds up fast. With BetterHelp online therapy, you can save an average $100 to $250 per session, which adds up fast. With BetterHelp online therapy, you can save an average of up to 50% per session.

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plus switch therapists at any time. Your well-being is worth it. Visit BetterHelp.com slash DLB today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp.h-e-l-p dot com slash D-O-B. Don LeBretard! Bob Kraft, the only reason your organization is good is because of Bill Belichick. Stugats! Belichick has done nothing since Brady left. He made the playoffs once. I think at the very least, he should not be a first-ballot Hall of Famer. They should make him wait like 10 years to get it. He's an overrated coach.

This is the Don LeBattar Show with the Stugats! The thing that's most interesting about it to me is to place in front of the audience this idea. Unhappier means better? Because the way you guys are doing the math on this, he's articulating that he cares less about winning than the people trying to beat him. And you're then the leap after that that that lack of care will be the difference between him winning and losing and I'm not certain that so I'd make the argument that a happier player can play longer that a happier player is less likely to burn out that a happier player will be someone who can climb from three to one because he's less pressurized than the player who is dying to be number one. I mean well you cited Marty Fish and that documentary on Netflix shows you exactly what it took in terms of skill set, physical attributes, he didn't have what those guys in that era had but he beat them individually and he'll admit in that documentary

beat them individually and he'll admit in that documentary, it made him lose his mind, what he had to dial it up to to get to that point. I'm sure the guys that he were going up against were probably a little bit more balanced, certainly by comparison, but the mental edge in that sport is one of the places that you do make up, what we're talking about sometimes is razor thin margins.

You're also arguing something that's kind of impossible, right, what's making him happy is not having that edge and not pushing himself to be the best and by not pushing himself to be the best, he'll be looser and be the best. This is such an old argument where does the greatness make you crazy? Do you have to cut off your ear in order to be great?

Are all artists out of their mind? My view is that if you have not won, then you don't realize that winning is everything. And if you have won, you do know that. And if you feel you can't win again, your defense mechanism comes up and you say to yourself, hey, the effort, it's just the juice is not worth it anymore.

There's too much squeeze. For him to come out at this age and say it, it sounds like a pre-baked excuse. And for me, when you have a chance to be the best and you blow it, and I've seen it with team sports and athletes all the time, they have such great physical skills, but they don't have the head, the strength to be the best. But this is the part that's interesting to me, and it's the most interesting part, because when you say mental toughness and they don't have the head what your presently saying is to be the best you almost have to be mentally unhealthy and yes neil brennan makes the

argument what are you talking about with mental health and michael jordan was crazy what are you talking about with mental health and tom brady he was crazy you have to be singularly obsessed to the detriment of all other things. You have to be totally lopsided. And my question is, do you? Because you're showing me a tennis player right now that you're making the argument is next on everything that we've learned about Nadal Federer and Djokovic are nuts. The three of them are singularly obsessed with something and they competed against each

other and understood each other and in some ways became friends and rivals that had a specific language that only they spoke but this person is saying to you and I think it's a healthier attitude I don't know if it's a more successful attitude in terms of results but the skill set we're talking about here are you guys arguing that in order to be great, you have to be mentally unhealthy? I guess it's people's approach. Like the three names that are atop that sport, all time, Federer Nadal Djokovic. One of them seems decidedly less happy than the other two. And

also just so happens to be the guy that's atop the heap in Djokovic. So I don't know exactly what to do with that. We don't really know these guys. I'm sure there are plenty of people that have lined up against Roger Federer that would tell me, are you kidding? He's a killer. But Djokovic from being Joe's sports fan seems like he's the most obsessive of the bunch. We've seen it work in golf. Like Brooks Koepka has said, I only care about the majors. He's playing on the lift tour. He doesn't want to play all the other tournaments. He wants to show up to the majors. And when he does, he's in contention.

I have- Master's week, Dana. I have told you guys before, and I will tell you again, go do some reading on Nadal and his foot injuries and what his retirement and his life is going to be like as a person who has an arm that looks like a thigh that is larger than the other arm because of how obsessively he sculpted something.

And I believe that he would finish third in terms of both stature and caring to Federer and Djokovic. And I don't question how much Nadal cares. I'm just saying these three people competing each other against each other to be the best didn't seem to make them like real happy that competition but also they were great in a way that was all time and I'm I'm looking at what is being said here and like, man, that seems like a good life

to be touring the world, enjoying tennis, and not being so obsessive that you have to feel all the time. Like, what is the value of being the best if you can make a really good living as a bronze medalist? Well, by contrast, we know who the most miserable of those three is, just by how they carry themselves on the court, and that's Djokovic

I do know who's the most balanced who appears to be the happiest and that's always no It kind of feels like Nadal in terms of playing with joy and Nadal is Alcaraz's mentor Like that is they play doubles in the Olympics together. Like if anyone knows what it's like to be in those shoes It's Nadal. What are you what are you doing David? I'm so upset to hear anybody say, you know what I really want, man? I want the bronze. That's how you get up in the morning?

I want joy, not bronze. I want joy. You just said if joy and bronze go together, you'll take the joy with the bronze. He's also 21. He's gonna be looked as if someone that peaked at a very young age and didn't live up to expectations. He could possibly be viewed if his career goes down

because of this seeking joy and not wanting to win is kind of a bust. He won't be viewed at all. He could be an all time, David, he could be an all time great that found joy and balance in his life while becoming an all time great. It could be that.

It ended up ranked three majors, five majors, eight majors. He's got four majors, he's 21. Who do you think will be the favorite when they get to the US Open this year? How many women's players have resigned and stopped at 25, 26, 27, because it was too much? Go down the list.

Yeah, loads. I mean, not guys that were considered all time great, maybe. Also the sports science has changed a lot. I will say that, you know, as much as, and I'm an advocate for mental health and not being consumed by something. And I know by being consumed by work, how unhealthy that made me and how unhappy that made me,

I also know what my output was at the time that I was losing my mind. And I'd stack that output up against a lot of different people. When Alcara has a quote like that, I wonder if, well, maybe he's not motivated by being all time great. I wonder if, well, maybe he's not motivated by being all-time great. I think he's motivated by winning these tournaments

right now and maybe arguably being the best of his generation. Those are just not the conversations we were having a couple of months ago. And we'll wait and see what happens. I'm referring to what Dan is, I can't imagine you're actually proffering this, where you would trade attempting to get nothing but bronze

on the thought that that would make you the happiest. The only people who feel that way are people who can't get gold. No one starts an Olympic training to say, oh man, I want bronze. You say the only people who feel that way and yet I'm offering you an example of somebody who doesn't feel that way.

The reason I'm bringing this up is because I'm presenting you an example of someone who is saying, I'm choosing joy over having to be the best the reason i'm bringing this up is because i'm presenting you an example of someone who is saying i'm choosing joy over having to be the best and those two things don't necessarily exists together the being the best and the joy that the idea that there has to be some misery in this or all misery in this in

the competition i mentioned this the other day with clay thompson leaving golden state and he was talking about i didn't get to enjoy any of i wasn't enjoying that while i was doing it because people were chasing me and i forgot to enjoy it clay thompson's an all-time great but is mad that he's not in the top seventy five all-time i don't know if all-time legacies are actually something that create joy or not or

if it becomes like Tyson Fury does, he becomes heavyweight champion, 100 years of bare-knuckle fighting in his family, he thinks he's arrived at his dreams, and what happens when he gets there? Cocaine and he gains 100 pounds, because the top of it didn't feel as joyous as he thought it was gonna feel.

But like counterpoint, how joyful is Klay Thompson in Dallas right now? Yep. I don't know the answer to that as someone who appreciates as I don't know how much he's appreciating the end of his career because he can see it from here in a way that he did not in Golden State. That's experience in Golden State didn't seem so joyous given that Draymond Green is punching teammates and Kevin Durant wanted to get out of there. They were winning titles.

They were winning, but I agreed, but I told you that when I sat down with Mike Miller and Eudonnis Haslem, they said that those four years, not fun, not fun. Winning was fun, but the doing of it was not joyous. The having done it was joyous. Well, well, well. It's so annoying to me to hear them talk that way.

Not fun. We had four years. We had the three best players. We were a juggernaut. We won two titles, four trips to the finals. But man, it just wasn't fun. Did Michael Jordan look happy to you? There was only one time Michael Jordan ever looks happy,

and it's at a track. It's a weird thing. No. How about after he won the title each year? Yeah, like when he got to the very top of the mountain. Steph Curry seems- That was relieved. Yeah, Steph Curry's a great athlete.

Steph Curry- We're looking for it for greatness. Steph Curry to me seems like a, I've been trying to think back here of like an all-time great that we look at, like that's a happy guy, seems like he has good work-life balance. Actually, I'm curious.

I'm curious, well we don't know those athletes because the way that it's covered and those guys being so alone. There's no way, incidentally, that Steph Curry has that shot and work-life balance. Whatever he did to create that shot, that was not a balanced human being. Seems so easy for him.

Seems present. He seems present. He's pretty good at golf. Pretty damn good at golf, too. So I think he's working on that craft as well. There's a podcast called Nothing Major and it's for tennis players that have never won a Grand Slam and I would love to see

if they chewed on this topic because there are guys that probably drove themselves crazy, especially in that sport, trying to get themselves to a couple of feet away from where Carlos Alcaraz is presently on the totem pole. And they probably hear quotes like that as guys have probably obsessed trying to beat guys like him wondering what are you doing with that kind of attitude?

If I had your talent, I'd be shooting for the stars and it doesn't sound like Carlos is. So there's a ton of baseball players who do that where they look at guys who are so skilled but they don't stay in the big leagues because they don't have the head for it. And what someone says, Jeff Conine says this about his own son.

Niner. My god, if I had Griffin's talent, I'd be in the Hall of Fame. But when you say don't have the head for it, is it because they have to accept the idea that it's going to be miserable? That they have to accept the idea that it's going to be less fun, less joyful, less fulfilling than it would be to just finish third. Boy, it's easy to be mediocre. You don't have a lot of stress and mediocrity. Third's not mediocre.

Yes it is. No, third is not mediocre. Third place. The bronze is mediocre. Being the third best tennis player in the world is not mediocre. So everything after first is mediocre, David? If you're Carlos Alcaraz and you're seated third, you are failing.

He doesn't care. The world ranking means nothing to him. I'm not saying he doesn't care. You're missing what I'm saying. It's not as rewarding. I mean, for all we know that Vavrinka, at the peak of his powers, might have been the fourth greatest tennis player ever.

Ever. In any generation. And we don't know it because of the era that he played in and the guys that he was going up against. The French Open's coming up in May, Alcaraz is the favorite. It's Clay. It's surface.

I don't care what it is. He's the favorite to win a major. David, why? That'll make him happy. It's Clay, you're right though. It's a good boy. Why are you? It's a different sport on Clay.

Why are you assuming that he's lying? He's telling you I'm equally happy at number three as I am at number one. And you're saying- I never said he was lying? What, you're saying he's lying. He's telling you I'm equally happy at number three as I am at number one. And you're saying. I never said he was lying. What you're saying is. I'm saying that's not how I would want to surround myself with athletes or with artists or with people

who excel at what they do. They acknowledge that they're paying a price. Of course they're paying a price. You're saying that this person is mediocre when this person is better at what he does than any of us in this room are anything that we have ever tried Yeah, that's absolutely host a football. You ever seen me do a puzzle

Are you a good puzzler? You're you're you're the third Minor penalty two minutes for lying Sephiroth, Arras Minor penalty two minutes for lying. Is that for Alcara? And I know Billy mentioned him, but he is 21 years old. It's an interesting quote to hear at 21. I mean, what do you know? What do you know about this? I know you know what it is to be like really good at this.

Do you really know what makes you happy at 21? At 27, he can regret his feelings at 21. No doubt. As time and his abilities have passed him by. And he might regret that approach if he's, you know, he's saying right now at 21, at 21, you know, I was going to 12, 3, 11 concerts a year. I believe that this entire group of people

talking about this have aged out on what people his age Their relationship with work in general. It's very different From it's like wildly What a 21 year old is looking at in terms of mental health and happiness is far more balanced than the workaholics Who have come before him who have dominated sports. And Sampson's giving a perspective that is a grandfather's generation removed from what that thinking process is. And I believe his thinking process is healthier

than all of the ones that came before it, even if it doesn't result in championships. And I'm not arguing that it won't result in championships because of what the skill level is to even be the number three ranked tennis player in the world. But that's like a generalization that gets thrown around a lot, right? Like the youngest people are so lazy now, they don't want to work hard, they have a bad balance of work and happiness.

I said a healthier relationship with work. I didn't say unhealthier. I'm not calling him lazy. He's not lazy. He's not in any world lazy. I think Dan's saying it's kind of a smart strategy and he's interested to see if it works. I don't know if it's a smart strategy,

but choosing happy's not a bad strategy. I know that that was a really weird loss that he just got at the Miami Open. I wasn't happy. I mean, I just, it's that sport. He doesn't lose that match at the US Open though, Mike, and you know that. And there's a fine by majors, not by world rankings.

Why would he care about that? He does have more random losses than the guys that he's generally judged against. And I know that stuff happens, but there isn't a sport, I think, from my money and all of athletics that tests your mind, body, and spirit quite the way that that one does. I guess you could say MMA, but in terms of like the mental aspect of the game, those tennis players are so in their own head that you could look at it as like, this is a refreshing quote,

but honestly you can look at it and say, good for you, but I don't think you're gonna be all time great because you think that way. And that's the link that I'm sort of putting in front of all of you, are we sure? Can you be the greatest ever if you're not obsessed with being the greatest ever? I look at Mensick saying, oh, he's crafting himself

exactly like Djokovic. I'm like, that guy's next. Now those come around a dime a dozen. There's always guys that make a deep run, and then you're judging a teenager, and you wonder what they're gonna be. But if I'm looking at what I know about their makeup and who they pattern their game around

and how obsessive they appear, after seeing a quote like that, if I had to bet on one person making a run at all time grade status, it'd probably be someone like Mensa Crenn. I really do wonder in the evolution generationally of all this stuff that is happening and how it is that young people interact with work

and greatness, how many more Simone Biles type of things you're going to end up seeing that you've never seen before, because younger people know how to choose themselves over some of the their parents and their grandparents pasts on what it is that greatness required. I know that David, you're continuing to make faces in here because you make your face. I'm talking well, but okay But let's let's examine this for a second. You are obsessed with being the best. Yes. How happy does it make you? Not but I'm not searching to be happy. I'm searching to be the best. I'm sure I'm competitive in everything I do I want to be the best and I'll work as hard if not harder than everyone to do it and it may not

Work, but you can bet your ass I'm not trying to be third best. Right, and I can bet my ass also that you're not as happy. But you're not happy either. Got your ass there. I just had a couple of bars. I think in retrospect, like maybe what makes him happy, what he can hang his hat on was like,

well, when I dialed myself up to a certain point, I was the best. And you can look at that fondly, despite maybe even not really liking yourself during that time. I'm really proud of the work that I had when most people didn't like me. I was putting out really high-end art for my career,

and even though I wasn't right, and I alienated a lot of people, I was also operating at a really high level. And with some distance on that, I'm like, I can change that thing. I can change that. But when people look at my run as a producer, and granted, this is nothing like the level of Carlos Sácaras, I'm like most proud of the era in which I was the worst version of myself. It is a hole though, David, that doesn't get filled by accomplishment when you continue to accomplish and it doesn't feel like enduring happy.

It's what I'm saying about Tyson Fury. You've got a hundred years of your family bare-knuckle fights in the street and you become heavyweight champion of the world. And what you immediately do after that is gain a hundred pounds and develop a cocaine addiction because the fulfillment doesn't actually fill the hole. I'm always bailing water and so are most people. And that's what we do. That is the life we choose.

You can go live on the beaches in Australia in the van. But you wouldn't. But I wouldn't, I'll tell you that right now. But I could. Little early. You couldn't do it, dude'll tell you that right now. But I could. Little early. You couldn't do it, dude. You couldn't do it. You wouldn't be competing against anybody.

You'd just be. I'd want to be the best pot smoker on the lot. No, you'd be in a van and all you'd lead the world in is self-loathing. You'd be better. I'd do that now. You'd be better, but you'd do it even more if you didn't feel like you were in a,

you know, that you were accomplishing. I would like to be Cheech and Chong in a van down by the river. No you wouldn't. You wouldn't last a day. Also wasn't Cheech and Chong. That was Chris Farley. Yeah, that's a wise.

I mixed them both. Cheech and Chong, the van, the pot, the smoke. Yes, but the van by the river is Chris Farley. Is Chris Farley. Yeah, that's what we're saying. We're agreeing, man. Mixing my metaphors. Shit, get off my back, dude. Maybe take a hit is Chris Farley. Yeah, that's what we're saying. We're agreeing, man. Get off my back, dude. Maybe take a hit. I like you. Be happy. Folks, it's Mike Ryan, and you know that Miller Lite has basically been a partner of this show for almost 20 years. And as we celebrate 50 years of Miller Lite, that means for a large chunk of

it, and look, I didn't go to school for math, but I'm pretty sure that's like 80% of the time that Miller Lite's been existing. They've been with our show, and I'm so grateful for it because we truly believe this. If you listen to us back in our radio days throughout our times in national radio, to the pirate face, to now, you know that Miller Lite has been a huge supporter of ours. And I've always been a huge supporter of Miller Lite. Why? Because it's got taste you know you can depend on.

A great beer trusted by beer lovers for 50 years. Miller Lite. Great taste. 96 calories. Go to MillerLite.com slash Dan to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. It's Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.