The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - Hour 2: Just Trying to Talk Shit (feat. Pablo Torre, Jemele Hill, and Mike Schur)

Episode Date: January 3, 2024

Dan wants to get to some serious sports topics so he's elicited the help of Jemele Hill, Pablo Torre, and Mike Schur. The four of them (along with some help from the Shipping Container) tackle some of the weightier topics around sports and culture today including why Lamar Jackson's blackness may be the reason he isn't showered with endorsement deals, the Aaron Rodgers-Jimmy Kimmel controversy, Dave Chappelle punching down at the Trans community, and, of course, the New England Patriots offensive struggles. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You're listening to Giraffe King's Network. This is the Dunlabel Tarshall with the Stugat Spatcast. Gonna be joined here in a second by our most esteemed metal arc advisor and also Pablo Torre and also Mike in a second by our most esteemed metal-lark advisor and also Pablo Torre and also Mike Sher, at some point. But Jamel Hill is gonna be with us to talk about an assortment of things inside and outside of the media.

But before I do that, I've just sent a text to Jamel and Pablo and I sent it to Jeremy as well because I'm like, is this artificial intelligence? Is this real or am I being butt cracked with this video that I don't think anyone is talking about uh... jeremy would you be so kind i don't know if jesse gets in this and i don't know if christ kris kody has seen this but we'll just show them in real time what i texted poplok and jimel because it's not something i've ever seen in an

NFL game and it happened so quickly on the field that i can't believe it's real and I'm in the middle of this week talking about Lamar Jackson some without talking about a play from that game where he threw the ball to Zay Flowers. This is great podcasting. Jeremy right now is showing Jessica his phone. Yes, but Jessica and now come over here and show Chris Cody as well, because I want to see Jeremy. I will do that.

I'm not going to lie. Didn't expect that to be what the video was about. All right, let me see. Lamar Jackson, do something wacky. It's Lamar Jackson dropping. I thought it was gonna be like a robot person doing something weird. It might as well have been because I'm surprised this.

He's not a lefty. Why do you back up lefty? He dropped back to pass with his left arm, turned his back to where it is that he would be throwing it and then swung back around to throw the ball right handed and it's simply not something I had ever seen in a football game before. I know Patrick Mahomes has thrown the ball, flipped it left handed behind his back all sorts of shit, but I've never seen that.

That's why he should be the MVP this season and also should not play on Sunday. And also the Ravens really just should forfeit that game. They should not play anyone in could it be that it was an accident. Now that looked pretty quarterback eat to me. Well, let's get into this with Pablo Tory and Jamel Hill because Lamar Jackson's not going to get the commercials doesn't really have an agent. And I'm not sure as a player, we've seen many players like him, but also as a face and voice for a franchise, he's a different look and sound than all the quarterbacks who get the commercials.

And I'm talking about white and black. I'm talking about Lamar Jackson, sounds, talks, thinks, swagger's differently than most of the quarterbacks I'm watching. So, Jamele, swagger's differently than most of the quarterbacks I'm watching. So, Jamele, let's start with you here. Your assessment so far of that quarterback and that team, given that at 1.6 time executive of the year, Bill Polion told us that was a wide receiver, not the MVP of the league, followed by every loser in the league rushing this off season to tell us they didn't want

the MVP of the league as their quarterback season to tell us they didn't want the MVP of the league as their quarterback and thank you for joining us by the way. No, always good to be with you all. It's been a while. And of course, as the resident race lady, I can't wait to chime in on all the beautiful topics that I know you have in store for me. But I think you, and this is why Lamar Jackson, he reminds me so much of Alan Iverson. And Alan Iverson had a lot of the same elements

that Lamar Jackson has. He had the cool, he had the swag, he was different, he had tattoos, he had corn rows, and culturally, he was the people's champ. And that is Lamar Jackson. And so there's a lot of people, especially a lot of black people, who culturally very much identify and relate to Lamar Jackson. But for a lot of boardrooms, for a lot of marketing firms,

for a lot of those people who make those kind of fancy decisions, Lamar Jackson is not the cup of tea. He ain't going to be getting the Campbell suit commercial with his mama anytime soon. And that's the shame of kind of all of this really is that he's a cultural phenomenon that deserves to be elevated and celebrated, especially considering what he was up against from college on this perception that he is somehow not doing it the real way, the right way, the way that quarterbacking or quarterbacking should be done. And so what we're witnessing now to me is Lamar not just defying what the perceptions are, but Lamar also sort of jamming everybody in their face with all of the things that they said should be detractions. And it's sort of, it's a beautiful thing to see because often in sports we don't get to see these kinds of things, but he is making so many people look so stupid on a weekly

basis that the petty part of me that lives and thrives, loves every moment of this, even though he totally destroyed my team before the United States. Well, Dan, I want to point out the nice race lady brings up a good point here. That there is something really fun about Lamar Jackson. Remember, there was that story like eight years ago where like that mom wrote that letter to the Charlotte observer about Cam Newton and I go, all the thrusts and all of the celebrating. Like Lamar Jackson is doing that, not just to former award-winning GMs, but to like analysts right now as he is the middle

of an obvious MVP season. And so part of the fun of Lamar Jackson is that there are all of these people who still like put a rake out in front of them in the middle of their yard, turn a camera on, and jump on it with both feet so it hits them in the face, allowing us to feel like honestly edgier than we deserve, because I agree that Lamar should be celebrated more.

Part of the pleasure though, the perverse guilty pleasure of being a Lamar Jackson appreciator is that you realize how angry other people are getting because he's so good and it's just like, how long do we get to do this for? Like the guy's princess riding a dropback. Like, oh, you thought I was left-handed? It's like, well, even the defenders are like, yeah, this is like Ph.D. level quarterbacking.

This is the point in the conversation where I tell people I've never seen the princess ride and this is where the conversation totally derails. I've never seen it. Inigo Montoya, none of it. None of it means anything to Jamal. Feel my father. So I did not get any of that reference.

But okay, you called her the nice race lady, which is demoting her from the resident race lady, which is now her new title at metal. The friendly neighborhood race lady. Excuse me. Spider-Man. Friendly neighborhood race lady. That's right. A spider-man. Friendly neighborhood race lady. But how about this team, Jamel, as not unlike the Colorado Buffalo, and we were early in the season as a symbol for black excellence that is interesting in sports because it's

going to be something that makes people uncomfortable. What Lamar Jackson is doing back there is artistry of the highest order. But this is the thing about the Ravens, in particular, when the Hider that's success before with Ray Lewis, they were like black Americans came then too. So that like the Ravens have been a black team for a long time. Ray or Lamar Jackson just adds a special punctuation to the Blackness. And here's the thing about Black Excellence and a friend of mine pointed this out, Lovey Aja Jones, who's a wonderful author, a friend of mine, noted thinker. And

she had this very eloquent sort of thought about black excellence. Like, we hear all the time, black excellence, black girl magic. And the thing about the excellence, though, is that the excellence isn't the deodorant for the inevitable undermining of black excellence. So no matter how excellent Lamar Jackson is, that's not going to stop somebody like the woman Pablo

cited who wrote that letter to the Charlotte observer. That's not going to shut the naysayers down. I promise you, we will be back to the conversation about what kind of quarterback is he very soon. And that's where we can't, while we can enjoy the black excellence and we can certainly highlight it and amplify it. We also have to understand we cannot outachieve some of the sometimes racially attitude

that tend to temper what we're saying. But for the moment, I think we just need to enjoy that this is a phenomenal quarterback. This team, the Ravens, I don't want any parts of them. If I'm any team in the NFL, I mean, to me, they have separated themselves from every team, the Ravens, I don't want any parts of them. If I'm any team in the NFL, I mean, to me, they have separated themselves from every team in the NFL. And so I'm just gonna enjoy that part of it

and try not to fall into the trap of saying, like, oh, black excellence, this means X, this means Y. It means that we're seeing something really good. And unfortunately, a lot of the stupider conversations about race that we've had around it will always find its way back into the conversation. Pablo, I wanted to ask you about what is happening right now at ESPN and at Disney, where you have Jimmy Kimmel

going after Aaron Rogers. Aaron Rogers is being paid by Pat McAfee, a lot of money I remember at ESPN having pretty enormous fights just trying to keep Ron McGill the animal guy on the air at ESPN And I've got to imagine as ESPN is no commenting stuff around Aaron Rogers because he's linking Disney's biggest talk show host to the Epstein island in a way that's making Jimmy Kimmel come back at him, not with jokes, but threatening legal action because he doesn't want to be put near the Epstein list. What kind of problem here does ESPN and Disney have

on its hand that and Jamel, you could speak to this too. You've got employees going back and forth and what was supposed to be a zone that didn't include this stuff. I have been marveling at the way in which people work at ESPN still, like Stephen A. when they're not at ESPN on air, can basically pivot to assert in horniness. That was once unthinkable on Disney Air Loops. And I praise the pivot to horniness, Jamal, I'll be honest, like I'm clicking on those videos.

The evolution of Steven A. Love Doctor, I'm like, all right, where does he rank Latinas? I want to find out, I'll admit it. Well, that said, that said, when it comes to what's on the air itself, this feels like a certain Rubicon being crossed, That said, that said, when it comes to what's on the air itself, this feels like a certain Rubicon being crossed. And so far as I don't know how internet-brained you have to be,

to do the thing that Elon Musk managed to get away with, perhaps because he bought the platform upon which he said it, which is, oh, that guy's a pedophile. Like, that was the, remember like the Thai cave diver guy who was like helping save the kids, stuck in the cave or whatever, like he got away with that. I just wonder if Aaron Rogers is just at this point where he's like not even thinking that this is insane

and legally actionable and also on a network that, I just hate, okay, can I just fast forward a bit to like the news cycle here? I just hate, I preemptively want to say how much I hate, how Aaron Rogers is going to claim to be canceled because he accused Jimmy Kimmel of being a petafile on his employer's own airwaves. I just hate that. Aaron Rogers has been getting away with so much stuff that puts such a lie to the whole idea of like the MSM. You'll meet me to like Aaron Rogers has whatever the hell he wants every

Tuesday on the most mainstream sports channel. And now because he crossed this rule, but kind of I feel like he's going to be a victim again. And I just hate that this is going to get there inevitably. No, I think I think that's the inevitable conclusion because think if you listen, if you're Jimmy Kimmel, who do you think Jimmy Kimmel called after or what's this news broke? Bob Iger perhaps okay, and what's what's going to happen? I don't know that for sure. So you know, I don't want to see some reports as she said he called you know that it was factual

But like I'm just thinking knowing how the internal politics work at ESPN at Disney at ABC, we know he made a call. All right. So that means that once they get the emperor involved in VibeIager, then this is when this goes to another level. This is when this goes to that conclusion that we're never really going to get to, that you talked about Pablo, because ESPN or someone is going to have to rain this in.

And we know there's no more offensive crime in the universe of ESPN and Disney than host on host crime or talent on talent crime. There is no bigger offense as Tony Cornheiser and Hannah Storm. Like there is no bigger thing. I experienced some of this myself when me and Chris Burman got into it

behind the scenes, and that escalated to a certain level of executiveness. And so we know how this happens. And so I just have a feeling that is when these conversations are totally going to get out of hand about what Aaron Writers is or isn't allowed to say. And there's a part of me that wonders if this may, is this going to be the end of the weekly

Aaron Riders appearances? Maybe not right now in the moment, but looking on down the line, at some point, I guess if you're an ABC or ESPN or those people who get paid to make these decisions, you wonder, is it worth it to have him on every week? There is going to be some kind of headline of him saying something and us making news for the wrong reasons. Seasons Greetings, everybody. It is Mike Ryan here to talk to you about Miller Lite, but also here to talk to you about this festive season and how Miller time can make holiday time even better.

I love this winter weather. It's great excuse to go outside and toast some wonderful memories with some friends. Why don't you do that with an ice cold Miller light in your hand and in some parts of the country. You don't need a coosie. It just stays cold out there. How wonderful is that? Take a sip, my friends.

Look around. Reflect on your year. You made a lot of good calls and no call better than having this Miller light right now. A beer that is brewed for taste, you know it's triple hops brewed, they could have stopped brewing it twice with hops, but they didn't. They went that extra mile and they brewed it with hops three times. The original light beer since 1975 and still the best one I'm talking about Miller light, great taste 96 calories. Go to Millerlight.com slash Dan to find delivery options

near you, or you can pick up some Miller-Light pretty much anywhere they sell beer. Taste like Miller time, celebrate responsibly, Miller Brewing Company Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 96 calories, and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. Don Lebatard! Billy's got a conundrum here, he's got a dog now, and he doesn't know how to socialize with other dog owners.

Stuggats! Dogs, Dan, I don't know if you're aware of dogs. Dogs like to smell each other and kind of like socialize and all that stuff. So then I'm holding on to a leash with my dog on it while another owner is doing the same thing. And I don't know how to interact with this owner in this case. Like, hey, you know, my dog likes your dog's butt smell.

As you guys know, I'm not good at small talks. So like this is a nightmare for me, because what do I talk to these other dog owners about? I experienced this exact same thing with my kid at a park. It's the same thing. Kids and dogs basically the same. We're on the pole, right?

That laboratory show, our kids and dogs basically the same. Because my two year old wants to run over and play with other kids, and all of a sudden I'm standing there and our two kids are kind of chasing each other and we're like, hey, yeah, there's our kids. How about that? This is the Dalibata show with this two cats. You guys say news for the wrong reasons, but the three faces talking right now on this

camera can make the argument that they have been turned into political weapons for their sports opinions. And now no longer work at ESPN, even though Pablo still does some stuff at ESPN. So when you guys say Jimmy Kimmel makes a call to Iger, my immediate thought is, and McAfee tells his audience how that Disney's not gonna change the show, he promised them

it wasn't gonna change at all. When Iger gets involved after changing the entire landscape there to pay the Maccafees of the world $17 million to not have to answer to anybody because he's his own entity, paying his own employee. It's not even Disney money that's going to Aaron Rodgers. Pat Maccafee tore up a deal bigger than ours, a $120 million deal to go to eSPN get

less money but get the platform with the promise that they would not change that show how can you argue i couldn't argue to my audience that i wasn't gonna change the Miami show if i got rid of the animal guy that's the animal guy that's like i mean that's run McGill i think about what we're talking about there how does pat Pat McAfee tell his audience? This isn't gonna change when I hear's making that phone call. Right. I mean, look, this is, by the way,

there's a poetry in this story, right? Just as a media story. Like, and this is now playing at the hypothetical in which Pat McAfee has to reckon with a heat check that backfired and exploded the platform that he made those trade-offs to to be on. And the poetry here is in this, what if the reason Pat McAfee got the platform, which

is Aaron Rodgers almost specifically, right? Like nothing cut through more than Aaron Rodgers being on Pat McAfee's show, for Pat McAfee. That was the biggest win that elevated him, transcended him into this, into this rarefied territory where he can do all these things. If that same guy ends up being the reason why something material changes about his license to have a freedom of speech that I don't think any other person in the history of the network

has ever enjoyed. Like let's just be clear about what he's been getting away with. And again, I don't begrudges, I'm not scandalized by it. I've just been noticing it in the way that all of us can notice what we were allowed to say and what we weren't. It would be incredible if that is the reason why. If Roger's the reason for his rise, then it's fall in that way.

Well, today, it's point though, is that they knew what they were getting into it. I don't mean to suggest that like, that back of the fee is some kind of nefarious character. I enjoy him and frankly, I think it is good for the network that he's there because I like the fact that they are opening up. Do I wish this would have happened more than I was there? Of course I do. But I still think it's a necessary step

in terms of them getting out of their own way and developing and growing in terms of how they want to relate to their audience. But at the same time though, there is Jimmy Kimmel if he wanted to, could force them into an awfully uncomfortable decision. Because frankly, I'm just putting myself in Jimmy Kimmel shoes.

And if it were me me and one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time went on a ESPN airwaves and essentially linked me to a you know a horrific case of sex trafficking involving a completely nefarious figure I would not rest until he was off the air and so that that's the tension point that I'm seeing developing is that this is going to turn, this could turn really ugly and I just don't know if simply telling Pat McAfee or telling Aaron Rogers a no problem with how, you know, with how you guys generally do your business, but you're going to have to chill out. And how does that conversation today has point given that Pat McAfee has already made the promise

to his audience that he won't change? And you know how stubborn Aaron Rogers is. How is that gonna play out? And how will they receive that message? So like, I just see a lot of combustible elements in this dynamic. Well, I just want more thing though. I think part of the behind the scenes ecosystem

that's worth pointing out here too is that the question is whether you as a host of this show that has great real estate, and I'm with you, Jamel, in terms of like, I am in favor of being able to say a lot more than what was previously allowed, right? I am not begrudging that. That is a good thing. I don't think anybody is, I am not at least angry at like, oh, no, Pat Mack, if you can talk about non-sports stuff for a really long time, that's not it. But the question to me is whether you actually see yourself as an ESPN employee as a teammate of everyone else

who is a full-time employee at the Disney properties. Because that's the whole thing you walk into, Disney Land, they say hello cast member, right? Like as if you're like hanging out with goofie uh... and in this case the question is do you actually you actually live up to the implications of that when it comes to that inter nesan sort of warfare that jimba was really looking to it let's let's take it to the

center of the culture wars though pat mac if he doesn't actually need he sp and he does not and if he is paying Aaron Rodgers millions of dollars, because Aaron Rodgers got him 500,000 people on YouTube and he believes that's the reason he's a half a billion dollar company. Now McAfee is not powerless here. McAfee can actually turn this into a freedom fight that makes him even more popular for leaving ESPN as well.

Like this can escalate if he values Aaron Rogers as a teammate and a friend enough to give him millions of dollars in a way that he was pissed off at the New York Post called the reporter a rat because ESPN leaked to the new york post the the the information reportedly this is what macaphy is upset about that allegedly allegedly right now i need to say i need to say that because rogers what i'm sorry macaphy was upset because he felt like someone at espn had betrayed him with that information he called the reporter a rat if all of that is in play why do you guys think

kimmel has more power here than McAfee? Well, Jimmel, I'm curious what you think, but it's almost like if you're inside of this universe, then yes, Jimmy Kimmel has more power. If you decide, and you mentioned it, then I think it's a brilliant point. If Pat McAfee wants to go hypothetically and say, because my freedom of speech has been compromised,

I'm gonna go to a platform where I have no censorship restrictions at all. That is a very savvy move that would result in, you know, again, the patrioning, the only phasing, the everybody is hustling independently from a creator to consumer to a fandom dynamic that we're familiar with and it'd be very profitable. No question. I think it would actually increase his profile. If that was the, if you said, I don't want to be on the field at, you know, these games, these college football playoff games, I'd rather monetize that philosophy than, yeah, there

is even more money in that, I would say. Yeah, I mean, look, I didn't mean to make the assumption or not the assumption, but make the assertion rather that Pat McBee has no power. I mean, he has a lot of cards. He has a lot of leverage. It's why he's even in this position to begin with. But I think this is kind of one of those worst fears realized when you have two extremely popular, gigantic personalities who now have beef.

And that is a very difficult situation to manage. And it's because of what they have beef over. I think it's the subject matter that matters. Like if this were something a little more frivolous, if this were something that like he could laugh off, even I gotta be honest, even if there was another COVID conspiracy, that was probably fine, right?

That would be way better than being linked to pitiful you. On that note, we welcome in Mike sure, because he was scheduled to join us now, and surely he has opinions on this subject matter as well. Mike, I just want to include you in the conversation without being redundant here, because we're talking about what I think is pretty fascinating here. Aaron Rogers, now feuding with Jimmy Kimmel at the height of sports entertainment and the

comedian is not making any jokes and the comedian is saying publicly, hey, I'm going to take you to court for affiliating me with any of this. I'm interested in sort of the micro mechanics of how the power dynamics are gonna work on whether or not McAfee and Aaron Rodgers gonna stay at ESPN. But what was your initial reaction to seeing this clip? Because a lot of people have a lot of opinions of everything Aaron Rodgers is doing these days.

Well, you know, every year, if you work in TV, a lawyer comes to talk to you and says, like, here's what you can do and here's what you can't do. And not a joke, then the number one example of a thing you can't do is assert that someone is a pedophile, if they're not a pedophile. It's the number one example that they use. And so as soon as I saw this, I was like, this is over. Like, this, this, I, Jamel just made the point, but like, there's a lot of things you can get away with of, of insinuating or whatever you want to call it, making a joke about someone

and how they live their life. You cannot say someone's a pedophile. It's like, it's just absolutely verboten. And that's why Kimmel isn't making jokes about this. It's like, it's just absolutely verboten. And that's why Kimmel isn't making jokes about this. It's like, this isn't a joke. This is a, this is the, essentially the worst thing you can say about someone. And so I don't care how much power Mac if he has. I don't care much how much Aaron Rogers talks about freedom of speech, which like most things he doesn't seem to really actually understand what that means. You can't do that. And so this is going to end. I would be shocked if this, if this

head legs from Aaron or Pat's side, because you are exposing yourself not just to legal liability, but to all sorts of things. If you claim what he is claiming. And it's, I don't know that they're gonna walk it back necessarily because those two guys aren't really in the walk it back business as far as I know, but this is not going to go any further and it, because it would be just the height of stupidity for them to press this issue or to try to turn this into some kind of freedom

fight. And by the way, yeah, Maccabee could leave. Obviously, he could leave. He had left before and was a huge success. He took a pay cut to go back to ESPN. But I don't think he would leave and then have Rodgers on to talk about this more either because he's then personally liable for whatever happens after that. So I think this is going to be over very quickly, not just because of the corporate dynamics of play, but because the thing that Rogers did is the stupidest possible thing you can do as an individual. And so I think it's over. That's my guess. You say that, but I feel in what are American culture wars these days publicly that I keep thinking it can't

get dumber and it keeps getting dumber from every angle am I wrong about this like you say no you say I mean you I can see all sorts things I never thought I would see argued out loud in my lifetime things that are now facts that get argued about even though they're facts. Somebody helped me here with as, Jamel, as Mike says, yeah, it's the dumbest thing you can do, but here they are in the center of it and they're not commenting and you and me and Jamel have been at the center of ESPN not commenting. There are so much going on behind the scenes right now,

including Pat McAfee, not totally trusting that people who leak things to the New York post to shame him are actually supporting him and his friend Aaron Rogers, neither of whom need or necessarily like what Disney's about. Well, to your point about us arguing about things you never thought we'd argue about out loud, we're still fucking arguing about the cause of the Civil War. So I'm just saying, it's like, Dan's not wrong.

Okay. Not wrong at all. And for the record, it was slavery. We're not so much to be fair. We're not. We're not so much arguing about it. We are just sometimes not mentioning it or pretending that it's something else.

Like that. There's a difference, I think, between... well, there are people, certainly, argue about it, but there's people who are solicitous of a certain electorate slice. No, my, my, I just kind of don't mention that it or pretend that it wasn't what it was. Yeah, at the beginning of every GOP sort of debate, someone walks in to the back room and says, so the number one thing you can't talk about is how the Civil War was over slavery. Just don't do that, everything else, yeah.

Jessica is presently right now listening to the McAfee show on her phone. I'm not groaning. Can't believe you're making me listen to this. I'm sorry, I'm doing that to you. What can you update us on as we do this in real time? And what has he had to do publicly here? Because this isn't going to just stop here

with whatever it is that's happened today. There's going to have to be an accounting for whether Aaron Rodgers stays in there. That's because there's multiple phones. He's there again. I'm on five devices right now. It's very hard to concentrate. He is the quote that awful announcing posted,

which is they posted a three minute video. This is basically the gist of the entire video was i can see exactly why jimmy came up felt the way he felt especially with his position but i think i was just trying to talk some shit you're out there at the end of the the that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that plane was just trying to talk to you. I have a theory. I have a theory.

So after Iger makes calls and we've got posturing from powerful people, the way that this ends is, we were just talking shit. Oh, we're out. Yeah. Yeah. Can I see what my theory is about this? Yes. I think that Aaron Rogers, this is based on nothing.

I think that Aaron Rogers feels like maybe his career should have gone better and that he should have more Super Bowl victories. And he's like, he's just like sad that it's ending. And I honestly feel like if Mike McCarthy had been a slightly better coach or if like, if what's his name Ted Thompson had been a slightly better GM none of this would be happening. Like if Aaron Rogers had three super bowl rings, none of this would be on the pole. Please add Levitard show.

Did Aaron Rogers go crazy politically because of Mike McCarthy? Yes. Who's erratic alive? Yeah. I mean, what an odd theory and yet. And just a lack of winning your best tip like. Yeah. Yeah. Jessica and Jeremy are totally in agreement with what it is that you're saying that this

is just him saying them. I was just as good as Tom Brady. He said he said. Yeah. He's a very sad person. It seems. Yeah. he's just like desperate to be like relevant or love. Like Tom Brady probably has the same degree of right wing politics that Aaron Rogers has, but he just is more content because he's got seven super boring. So he doesn't need this like a Google I'd accolade like chanting his name and telling him he's a genius

and then he's important. So Aaron Rodgers hasn't gotten that to the degree he needs it from football. So he's getting it from the worst people on like 8chan or whatever and people who buy like Rudy Giuliani commemorative plates off of an ad on Newsmax at three in the morning. Like that's all this is.

It's just like a desperate need for that app for that like love and attention that he didn't get enough of. Jessica, I'm- Man, I wish I would have root it for him then. I wish I would have root it for him when we were super balls. We could have started. None of us need to be subjected to this. I wish that Jamele and Pablo had seen what happened in the ship and container right there, because what Chris Cody heard was radicalization by dolphins running back

Devon HN. That's what he heard, not HN. Not HN. No, no, he was like, is he playing Sunday? What do you know? Jeremy, you wanted to speak to somebody here. No, I mean, I just think that the thing with Rogers, we're talking about how sad he is. Like if you're a very sad friend, then went to go take a bunch of ayahuasca and psychedelic drugs to try to fix their sadness. And then came out of that with a bunch of wild conspiracies about COVID and the pedophiles running the United States government and entertainment and all of that, you would be concerned for them,

not trying to give them a bigger platform. Like this is genuinely, if this was just a normal human being and not the guy that we've built up to be, you know, Jeopardy host, intelligent Aaron Rogers, we would be worried about this guy. Maybe if we got to be the host of Jeopardy, you never would have accused him.

You can't believe he had a pedophile. I like this, I like that there too. Yep. There's a lot of people in the country who this happened to, right? It's like they're lonely and they're scared and they're feeling their mortality and they're isolated and they don't have a lot of friends and they become vulnerable to conspiracy theories and nonsense.

It's just that most of those people are like in their mid to late 80s and Aaron Rodgers is like 38 or whatever. And that's why it's and and and rich. And so like I I feel like a lot of us have seen this happen to our parents or our grandparents. It just doesn't usually happen to like a very famous handsome rich quarterback. I have a take also about Aaron Rodgers that this all reminds me of, which is that Aaron Rodgers talks, and so my most sympathy I have, Brian Rodgers when he talks about like psychedelics

and psychedelic therapy, I believe that that is a worthwhile thing that America has been very late to and that the science actually is far more compelling than people give a credit for on elite media channels and the MSM. However, I also think when Aaron Rodgers talks about how like the consequences, the benefits of like Iowaska are ego death and this recentering of yourself

and how you now place yourself in the larger universe and you have perspective on things. My general response is I think he needs to do more Iowaska. I don't think he did enough. So do more. It's not that he did so much that it sent him down this other path. It's that he needs to do more.

He didn't do enough. He didn't actually get high, but he thought he did. And it's like, oh, he got none of the benefits that he's preaching about. He doesn't realize it yet. So just do more ayahuasca, baby. That would be my recommendation. He did, it's like plus, he did placebo ayahuasca.

He thought he was getting something out of it, but yeah, it was just, it was just a nutmeg. I'm gonna stop you guys for a moment on ayahuasca shaming as it is something that I have noticed. Other people that have been seeking something have derived healing from what is the killing of the ego and DMT and some of those, what do you, what do you make sure? What is it that you're trying to get in on there?

You're making Pablo's point. And Pablo's saying he should do it more or not. He shouldn't do it. It's not shaming. It's like encouragement. It sounded like Jeremy. Jeremy was saying. I'm not trying to just, no, I'm not shaming.

I'm saying that there are plenty of people who go down that path that the wrong thing happens and that they end up hooked to whatever type of drug experiences that they have there. I just watch the love his one documentary of all of these people who basically one woman who took all of these psychedelic drugs and then believed that she was God. And then all of these other people who followed that path.

She turned blue. And then she turned blue. I would love to know what Aaron Rodgers thinks of colloidal silver. That's what i'm trying to say is i just want to know what he thinks about that okay understood thank you for your viewpoints on this you did ayahuasca shame and it was really did you i really did you want but you did and it's that whether you make your friend did this and then came to you that's right it's crazy

would you think they are you don't know how to gruff the crime dog. These are his eighth grade friends. He's very concerned for them. Actually, yes. Give us the stat of the day music here. I want to bring Jamel back in and I want to get rid of Mike. Sure, but he's got his stat of the day at his appointed time. Let's do it.

I'm going to do that right now. Let's do that in five. He was just yelling shit. I told you that. One, let's start of the day. Start of the day. And they see a start of the day. That and five he was just yelling shit I told you that I'm gonna get one Start of the day, start of the day, and this is the start of the day. In Chris Cody's defense, how could he have known I was going to do a start of the day? You know? It's a gackie.

I have a couple stats for you. I have a football stat and a basketball stat. Here's your football stat. My beloved New England Patriots have scored 233 points this year. Josh Allen has scored 252 points this year. The Patriots, by the way, averaged 14.6 points per game. And Lucy's beloved Iowa Hawkeyes averaged 15.4. The Patriots are underscoring Iowa. Wow, excellent stat work.

We have missed you during the holidays. You have more than that. I do. Here's the basketball stat. This is from off to stats to give you some idea of Caitlin Clark's dominance. There have been two players in the last 25 years in the NBA WNBA Division 1 men's or Division 1 women's teams to put up the following numbers over a 15 game span at least 450 point at least a hundred rebounds at least a hundred

assists and a 900 winning percentage. There have been two people at any level. Men's or women's who have done that. One of them is Caitlin Clark over her last 15 games. The other one is LeBron James. That's it. What she did yesterday is totally absurd. A step back. In saying 40 footer at the, well, after the buzzer, after the buzzer.

No, she got it off. It was, she had a tenth of a second laugh. Boo, hiss. No, well, it doesn't matter. They need to allow it whether she got it off it was a two-second life who is no well doesn't matter they need to allow whether she got it off or not yet it goes it's the cool role if it's suit if it's cool enough you got to let it go thank you mike we will talk to you again at some appointed time when Chris Cody will forget that you do the state of the day around here it's not interesting now i've got to go back to talking to our resident race

lady thank you We appreciate the time done lebertard You keep mentioning Lou Harris and Louis William is in Montreal Harris. You keep mentioning her all her all excuse me. It's two gods Nick. Thank you so much for being on with us really enjoy your work. Oh, thanks for having me. Have a great day Yeah, yeah, yeah ill. This is the Don Lebertar Show with this two gods. What's your mouth? Jamel, I wanted to ask you, I've only seen the first 10 minutes of the new Chappelle special,

and I, you know, I just immediately became disappointed because he again, he's again doing the thing where he wants the last word on this. And even though I appreciate the artistry of standup, of signaling Norm McDonnell of telling a story that has a punchline at the end that surprises you. I want to play for you Jerry Seinfeld talking to Stephen Colbert about Bill Cosby and then just get your thoughts on how it is that we are to separate the art from the artist.

Who was the comedian for you? Was there a price? Well, the comedian was Bill Cosby. Of course. And those albums, I had never. They're from the fellow right, wonderfulness. Why is there air? Greatest, what's the word? Body of work.

I think in comedy is his. Can you still listen to his comedy? Oh yeah. Yeah, I grew up on his stuff like I think he saved is his. Can you still listen to his comedy? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I grew up on his stuff like I think he saved my life. Right. Because when I was a kid, I had like a tragedy in my life, but for the next two years, I listened to Bill Cosby albums every night before he went to bed.

I would hide the speaker under my pillow so my mom wouldn't hear those. Oh my god. You could drop a needle anywhere on those albums, and yet I can't listen to it now. No. Oh, you can't. I can't. No. I can't separate it. You can't separate it.

I can't. Well, to me, it's because there's love there. There's love there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know it's tragic. Yeah, but comedy, there's a lot of tragedy and comedy. There's a lot of... There's a lot of cos of tragedy.

But I mean, there's a lot of people who have tragic lives. Sure. You know. Well, like the Jerry Lewis thing, you read the thing that he didn't include any of his sons in the will. Did you see that, I didn't? I did see that, yeah. Now, did that, how did you feel about that?

Kind of hilarious. Yeah. But that's not like, now I'm, he denied the money. That's not the same thing. No, it's not the same thing. It's the same roofy. See, that upset not the same thing. No, it's not the same thing. See, that upset me, because I adore Jerry Lewis,

but I'm not gonna not watch the Bellboy. I'm still gonna watch the Nuddy Professor. We need the comedy. Sailor beware. One of the funniest movies ever made. You never heard of that? You never saw Sailor beware of Jerry Lewis? No.

Sinefeld is a colder person. He is not as spiritual as Colbert. I am surprised that Seinfeld Jamell was totally surprised as if he'd never considered the idea that somebody would get so emotionally attached to something that they couldn't separate art from artists It seems like Seinfeld hadn't considered the possibility because he loves the art of stand-up and joke-t telling so much and so many comedians will protect comedy above all Yeah, you know so much of this is about how it makes you feel right because there are certain things that there's levels to this There's certain things that you might be able to bypass because I think most of the people that we like we admire that we listen to Whose entertainment we consume I would say over half of them are probably problematic. Now, they're problematic in different ways.

You know, somebody who may have gotten a DUI is not going to hit you the same as somebody who was accused of raping and druging women. But I don't remember who made this point. And it was a brilliant point. So I'm going to steal it. And I'm going to pretend like I was smart enough to come up it, come up with it on my own. But here's the thing about Cosby.

Like the Cosby Show comes on every day. And I watch it and I don't really have a problem with watching it. But the, and I was trying to understand how is this possible. Like I cannot hear our Kelly song. I had one rule for my wedding. Don't play any art Kelly. All right, like I can't do it, right? The difference is Bill Cosby was a character on the Cosby show, right? He was playing somebody else. Like he was a really a prostitution. Like we knew this. Like there was nothing about his, I mean there was some parts about his life like him being known as this

Family man, I guess you could say that but like it was so fictional to the point like I don't really relate the two The difference is with Archelle is that he was literally singing about his crimes Show me some ID before we get needy. I mean like he was singing about it all the time So like you can't listen to it because you're like, no, he's reminding me all the time. He's a creep and he deserves to be in prison. So I think to some degree, we have to do this. Otherwise, we would never enjoy anything.

But I do understand why there are certain people who are gonna turn you off and certain people who want. Like I'm at the point where Dave Shapale, where Dave Shapale doesn't, he doesn't turn me off necessarily, but I haven't given one thought to watching this special. And the last one, more than anything, because he has just decided to make going after and talking about the transgender community, his thing that is so boring to me, that it's hard for me to watch him from that standpoint.

He's not saying anything revolutionary. He's just sort of taking agreements, I think, to the point of where it's undermining his intellect as a comedian. Yeah, I mean, my take on all of this is that I actually perversely really enjoy when someone that I know intellectually, I should not like or enjoy or consume is so good that they make me guiltily still want to enjoy it or want to watch or want to laugh, right? That's every entire calculus we all make about like the art versus the artist.

I'm okay with everybody separating it according to their own personal standards. It's all about your personal feelings, right? I'm not here to legislate that. Go do what you want in the privacy of your own brain. But my thing with Shepal now is just that he makes sure he reminds me of Patrick Ewing in Orlando, Magic Jersey. I'm just like, dude, I am here for you

to guilt me into wanting to laugh. But every time I see it, it feels like a guy, Joe Montana with the Chiefs. It's just like you don't have your fastball. And it feels like it's more exacerbated because you keep on playing these hobby horses. That you know we're going to get a certain reaction from people that feels like the easiest possible layup. And for a guy who is object, telling me, look, his previous specials, his show, genius, right? Like, and even some of the early stuff

when he was trying to weave in the trans stuff, you sort of had to, like, it made you stop for a second and have to think hard about, like, man, what do I think about Chappelle now? Now, today in 2024, I don't have to do that calculus anymore because I'm just like, yeah, this isn't that good. Sorry, it feels boring, it feels lazy. And I wish it wasn't because I'm here to be gilted into laughter.

I really am. There are comedians that I do that for still. Shane Gillis. I know it's a problematic guy, but who's hilarious? Shepal, not doing it for me, even though my brain is open quietly to the possibility. We're out of time, unfortunately, but the argument on the other side would be that he is fearlessly saying things that others aren't saying in comedy and has the number one Netflix special, at least in part, because he's doing that.

We can say what we're saying and people will accuse us of our politics skewing his funny. Thank you for being on with us, guys. Yeah. Yeah. what we're saying and people will accuse us of our politics skewing his funny thank you for being on with us guys yeah yeah