The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - Hour 2: Leakin' It!

Episode Date: January 8, 2024

We kick things off with a breakdown of tonight's matchup between Michigan and Washington for the College Football Playoff National Championship before we take a look at the viral video of a naked man hopping into a fish tank at Bass Pro Shops. Then, we have a lengthy conversation about the dynamics at ESPN after a "leaking" controversy between Pat McAfee, Norby Williamson (a.k.a. Norbert Williams), and ESPN executives. We welcome in Jemele Hill and, despite our greatest efforts, Adnan Virk to discuss the intricacies with updated comments from McAfee in real time. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You're listening to Giraffe King's Network. This is the Don Levertor Show with the Stugat's Podcast. We'll get into the College Football Playoff final with Richard Karnepome improvement a little bit later in the show, but I do want to, I do want to chew on an interesting facet of all that's going into tonight, which is pretty solidly, I think, the nation's going to rally behind Michael Penex and the Washington Huskies today, because for several reasons that have happened this season, the spying allegations and the fact that generally people like an underdog michigan's not super likeable and i think we're going to see an

overwhelming amount of support online anyways for washington red code he has said that we are all huskies now that great code he doesn't really have an emotional interest in any of this i believe a lot of amer, if you're tangentially interested in sports, you will find the Washington story more palatable than the Michigan one. But also more motivated by hate and disdain for what Michigan has allegedly done this season. I want to seize on that because Michigan has been motivated by hate, I think, to get to this point. They were trounced by Ohio State for several years. I remember my her famously never lost to Michigan. And they're finally there.

There's a team that had a split national championship in 1997. But for much of the new century, hasn't mattered the way that they've mattered over these last few years. And the gym harbour arrow over there didn't get off to the easiest. Or there was questions as whether or not he could survive at Michigan. And I find that interesting about college football and that with very few exceptions, you have these dominant teams. Alabama, you had Florida have its run, Ohio State have its run. The bitter rivals of these programs, to whatever they can, to get to that level. Not so much because it's a goal of theirs,

that's everybody's goal. But mainly to prevent the other team from doing it, because it's driving them crazy. Alabama, you had Auburn get up there and they kind of sold their soul for it and got in trouble retroactively. Gene Chizek's not really high-erable as a head coach anymore. LSU also to a degree fierce rival with Alabama.

They got themselves in it, and inevitably you heard things afterwards and there was stuff there. Michigan follows that profile. Texas saw Oklahoma do a Texas in the BCS, or it does it. Honestly, it makes me really think poorly of what Miami's done and what UCLA's done

because they've had their rivals have success. FSU saw what Florida was doing, desperate to chase them, Georgia. So what Florida was doing, desperate to chase them, Georgia. So what Florida was doing, desperate to chase them. And always, with very few exceptions, you can pick a part, ways that they got to the mountain that were kind of shady, even by college football standards. And this year, it's no different. If you have to be dirtier than urban Meyer in order to win against Florida, that's dirty.

That's dirty. Ohio State, you got to win against Florida. That's dirty. Ohio State, you gotta get really dirty. And we have a scenario here where, and they'll always have tonight, regardless of what happens to this, and I'm not suggesting that the wipe away this national championship, but no matter what comes out in the press,

no matter what asterisk people wanna put onto this title and phony social media world, that's not a real place. They're gonna potentially get away with it. They're favored to get away with this whole thing tonight and that's fascinating. It's not, they've already gotten away with it. The, if there are no consequences,

while it's happening, they've gotten away with it. Unless something like that. There were consequences like Harbaugh was suspended. No, no, no, I'm talking about consequences that cost you. Not consequences, it's a little bit. They're playing away with it. Unless something that we're consequences like Harbaugh was suspended. I don't know. I'm talking about consequences that cost you. Not consequences. They're playing for a title to look bad. I'm talking about that unless we were, you guys will remember that the before the Michigan Ohio State game, there were emergency injunctions being filed for Harbaugh to try and law his way onto the sideline by making judges make ruling after hours for judges. Like if you'd call in a search warrant on a Saturday morning because the judge needs to be woken up so that Hobbaugh can coach. The idea that Michigan is playing this game and gets this game with a coach

who's missed half their games for malfeasance that's hard to prove is them getting away with it already. There is nothing that will stand in the way between them getting to night as a night, even if they lose. As a night, they get it over every possible infraction that they have that will not matter. Are you saying or both you guys saying if it's vacated 10 years from now, that they're never going to be able to take away this night. It's, it's, this thing will bring you turn on, but it also doesn't often work out. Blake Horim had NFL prospects.

Jim Harball tried his day to save NFL prospects. You don't often see considering the beat down that they suffered, well, ended up being close, but they lost a TCU, an embarrassing loss considering how the national championship game went for TCU, where people, key essential figures come back. We gotta get this. Let's run it back.

We'll bring everybody back to school. More often than not, it turns out the way the Peyton Manning turned out in 1997. But it doesn't work out where you can actually correct the wrongs of the previous year. And they have an opportunity to do that. And in many respects, it seems like the end of an era, the start of an era potentially for Michigan,

but also the end because you'd favor Jim Harball to be going to the NFL. He's been trying for years. Who's rooting for Michigan tonight outside of Michigan outside of Gambleers? I haven't seen anyone like look at these two teams based on the stories and their paths to get there. That is rationally made the choice. Yeah, I know they had the Conor Stallions thing, but I really like this Michigan team. I have not understood all season and Jessica please help me here because the point spreads in the Washington games to me have been confusing to me because I don't have the what are you laughing at.

They're always underdogs. But they're underdogs in this game and when I watch them play their style is so big and fun that I can make the argument that Michigan's going to be too strong for them along the front. But I don't know why Washington would be an underdog against anybody, because the team that I have watched this season, their quarterback can make big plays against anybody because the team that I have watched this season, their quarterback can make big plays against anybody easily. At one point this season, 25% of the throws he was making were deep throws. Like that's how he got into the Heisman conversation.

And I don't have a sophisticated enough eye for what is happening along the line. What I fear tonight is that Michigan will just hold on to the ball, that Michigan will keep the ball away from Washington. But I was confused by, I would have thought that the spread in this game would be three, not four and a half, but against Oregon after beating Oregon Washington was a ten point underdog and I'm just confused by the way this team is viewed and because the gambling money tends to be smart it tends to be right in these instances and if they're questioning Washington's line play I would defer to the money on that.

Well I think what the line play that maybe you'd be concerned about would be the defense because the offensive line has been very good at Washington. But the defense, according to S&P plus, is like in ranked somewhere in like the 40s or 30s right now, I don't know off the top of my head, but whereas Michigan's had a top 10 unit on both sides of the ball throughout most of the season, right? So what you're looking at is like a team that their offense keeps them in every single game because Michael Pennix, although it hasn't looked easy in every game, and they have it a very tough schedule, he can just throw the most accurate, beautiful, long ball to

one of his three outstanding receivers that you've ever seen. And then they'll, you know, that's six points right there. So he keeps them and their offense keeps them in every single game, even if their defense isn't a top 10 unit in the country. Although I will say their defense has, I think proven people wrong, especially against Texas last week. They kept them, kept them right there. They had a Heisman runner up, I believe, right?

Penix finished second. Second. Yes. A Heisman runner up. They're in the college football playoff final. And I think most people, even people that follow the sport, don't know their head coach's name. They've done this kind of in the shadows. They've quietly gotten to a college football playoff.

But how? I think it's regional bias. I really do. Really? Yeah, they're not featured enough nationally. They don't have the national game. They've had game day go. They're enough, but I don't. But I they're not featured enough nationally. They don't have a national game. They've had game day go there enough, but I don't know what it is. They have one last week. This is Texas. They have one two weeks before that. Washington's made it.

This is a second time Washington's made it to the college football playoff. I think they made it to the very first batch. It was a different head coach, Chris Peterson. But they tend to have success there very quiet. The point spread is because the thought is that Michigan along the offensive line is too strong for where Washington is weak along the defensive line. Which allow them to control the game and keep the ball away from him. That's the reason for the line.

Yeah, I think it's going to play out. I hope I'm wrong. I hope we'll get to see Michael Penex chasing this game as Michigan tries to play keep away from him. But to me, if they could do that on the lines against Alabama, they're not going to have an issue doing that against Washington and Washington's going to have to find a different way to win this game. I mean, they're going to have to play their game, but will they have enough chances? It's a higher risk game that they're playing. But Washington did it against Texas Texas who did it against Alabama?

Oh Transitive transitive doing it against Bama. So I guess they've done it against Georgia right? Well, this is amazing because he's assigning a transitive property to Washington even though we just saw Michigan do it against Bama. That is correct. That is correct. They both done it against Georgia. I have aired until now and I ask video to scramble right now and I will give you a moment of filibuster by using the phrase Bass Pro Shops because I have aired and not going to this video earlier today. I talked about the general shame of having your shirt sucked off in an airplane. This is

substantively more shameful than that. Jessica, would you like to set up this video? So Chris Cody was really upset about the dolphins. I'm just kidding. It's not Chris Cody. It's a random guy. I'm nervous that we didn't blur out the PP because it's well he jumped into the tank at Bass Pro Shops naked. I believe this is also an Alabama right? So this happened mere miles away from an earned guy. What a weekend.

Roll the head. What a weekend for Alabama. They are not used to losing in a CFP. This is become a thing. This is what happens. This has become a thing now and I say this as a connoisseur of Bass Pro Shops. People jump in the tank there and they think it's funny. It's not funny, it's mean to the fish,

and you will get arrested if you do this. And this guy jumped in naked, got arrested, became the meme of the weekend, and it's just terrible, it's poor tarp it. It is, what a way to get dragged out to naked on your belly. Yeah, getting dragged. Well, let's watch this again. We should blur that, but he did think it was funny.

And the part that I want to show people is just getting dragged handcuffed, hands behind your back, across a floor that may or may not be clean and you're flopping around like a fish or a deck. This is oddly satisfying him being dragged off. Well, the streak is what I like. The tummy, the belly leaving a streak of water, a watering streak of shame. And it gets drier as my ass. Yeah, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the has been creating that water stain, that stain shelter of the highest order. Seasons greetings everybody.

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More Spots! This is the Dan Lebatard show with the Stugots! Stugots, I had a lot of former ESPN people, current ESPN people, people in general asking me about what happened with Pat McAfee and Norby Williamson for the uninitiated Pat McAfee called him a rat and accused him of sabotage, which is fairly amazing. Just the accusation of sabotage, like I associate with like Russian hacking and stuff. You don't often see a public claim of I was sabotaged, but ESPN is hired a professional wrestler. He's going to be a professional wrestler.

And I should say on the front end, I root for Pat McAfee. I root for ESPN slightly less than I root for Pat McAfee. But what I found interesting about this is how people maintain and protect power and the roots of the industry and the way ESPN manages to oversee its talent and keep its talent to under check. And ESPN put out a statement in the wake of this new controversy that Pat McAfee embroiled himself in and it said positive things about Norby Williams and said they were going to handle the matter internally.

And right now I'm looking up at the Pat McAfee show. Pat is doing his show from the side of the CFP final. So that would mean, I know it's a big day for ESPN, it would mean that Pat McAfee seemingly got away, optically anyways, got away with calling a senior management type, a disparaging name. Not, not a single. Wait, hold on a second, not a senior management type.

Jermella and I can speak to this part. The guy who runs ESPN, the shadow president, the guy who keeps all of the, it's isn't just a vice president. This is the guy who's run on the wrong side of Stuart Scott and Dan Patrick. And in general, this is not a bug. This is a feature.

This is how you keep people controlled when you don't want your talent misbehaving and the talent can be disposable and you want the letters to matter more than anything else. So we bring in Jamal Hill here, excuse me, that was a terrible way to pronounce you. Long night, Dano. It was a long night. Thank you, Stu Guts. I tell. And thank you... i found it most of this is funny i found it interesting your takeaway as you watch it happen was what uh... i think i was pretty amused by it as well because uh... as you mentioned and like this is just something that you just never see and especially at a place like the spian where there is

there's sort of an official carinal rule about talent on talent crime or letting what is happening in the building spill out into public arenas in the way in which Pat McAfee did. I mean, I've never seen that in the history of this network that somebody just took a flame thrower to one of the executives there who has been there forever. You know, everybody knows who Norby is. And there was a part of me, I know everybody saw my tweet when I said I can relate.

And there's a lot of reasons for that. Is that, I mean, there, what happened to Mike and I on the Six of Clive Sports Center? One day, I hope it will be a case study for media classes everywhere, and certainly toward the end of our time there We experienced a lot of what Pat McAfee was talking about and so that is the part that I Could certainly relate to but yeah, I mean, it's just The thing is where did they go from here because you have somebody and as much as they try to create a

Separation between themselves and Pat McAfee by saying like this is his own outfit You know, they're sort of just renting the property and giving it a platform is like it's on ESPN a separation between themselves and Pat McAfee by saying like, this is his own outfit. They're just renting the property and giving it a platform. It's like, it's on ESPN. People know that this is your show. So trying to have these kind of, trying to make it seem like there's some nuance there where the average person understands that, you know, how this business arrangement works is kind of, you know, how this business arrangement works is kind of, you know,

a bit of a fallacy. So if you're a talent there at ESPN, and you've seen this happen, that is going to probably give you a little more sense of empowerment, thinking that, okay, so the next time that something happens that, you know, a conflict sort of spills out

and particularly dealing with this person in general or really anybody there that's an executive. Criticizing the company publicly is now open for business because if they don't do anything to Pat McAfee and I'm not even suggesting anything should be done to Pat McAfee, but the reality is that this is setting a precedent

in real time. And certainly I know in times where I've gotten into conflicts at ESPN, I have used precedent on my side to say, oh, but you let such a such a do it. You let such a such a get away with it. So this is very much a watershed moment in terms of how internal conflict is handled in a public manner.

Jamal, I think Pat can do it most can't. No, nobody else can. This is what I'm talking about. Nobody, nobody else can do this. No, you, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, everybody is not treated the same. And what this does is that this gives somebody, this is gonna give somebody down the road a lot of leverage in terms of how they have maybe dealt with some of the conflicts that have arisen there. And no, it's true like everybody, we know it's not treated the same. And how your treated depends on how much leverage you have. And Pat McAfee has an awful lot of leverage,

which is why he called his shot. That's why he did it to begin with because he already knew what the outcome would be. Any battle that I picked in ESPN, I either knew I was going to win or I was okay with losing. One of those two. And he knew he would probably win this battle, which is why he did it. He picked pretty incredible timing because I know from my experience with Dan, when you get caught up in multiple instances like this in a very short period of time, that's when the writing started being on the wall for us.

But Pat did this at a time coming off of probably the biggest heat that he'd had internally at ESPN with the Rogers Jimmy Kimmel thing granted he's positioned as an innocent pie standard, whether you believe that or not. So he does this thing about Norby and he has his direct relationships with Jimmy Petaro. He's got great relationships there with Kirk Herb Street and Iger. And Iger has well been faggot. And he does and also Burke Magnus too.

Like this also him as well. So he does this right before the CFP final and day that's huge and he's an integral part of their college football coverage. But to me, it's sensational headlines. ESPN talent calls senior executive a rat. I get all that. But there is an issue with ESPN and leaking. There has been for several years.

And we know how many middle management types and upper management types have filtered through there. We know how many talents have cycled through ESPN. And yet, the leaks persist. They keep going to the same two reporters and they're of the same nature. And I know from participating in their compliance training and in town halls,

and having senior management tell me directly, how important it is to Disney, to not be leaking things out. And yet in this statement, there is nothing about this leak. They would seem to have a serial leaker leaking constantly privileged information and yet they're doing nothing about it norby well you've seen was the first name in that press release from the isp and it was protecting him i believe that these people did this to us at the end with a series of strategic orchestrated leaks

and it's obviously to control the narrative. But, Jamel, when I talk about this being a feature not a bug because you talk about precedent. Like I said, Dan Patrick wanted a television in his office before the biggest show they've ever had, just to have it, and they told him no, because if he got a television in his office, then everyone would want a television in their office. And what I heard all the time is we cannot establish precedent, but the way that you tell

me if I'm wrong about anything that I'm saying here, Jimout, when I saw you in Bristol, the first time you were at a cubicle. I was surprised by how small everything was. I was surprised by producers running the company and the way that that kept, the way that that power gets kept is by making all of the talent disposable, not allowing for anything in the way of precedence, but the match that they now have. This is not some scared, insecure journalist in the vanity business who's interested in respecting authority.

This is a guy who's got all his own powers and is renting to them. Like he will be bigger the moment that he leaves there because he was too hot for Disney to handle. Then he was at any point before that. He has nothing to fear here and that has to scare the hell out of them when the new media becomes about the shenan sharps and the macrophies and the athlete who aren't going to tolerate a middle manager or vice president telling them how to do business when they're not employees and they don't need the money. Yeah, well, that's why what he did

was very remarkable and he used that levers that he has is that he didn't need them necessarily from the outset. And when you have that kind of element at ESPN, which is very different from how most people there, most of the situations that they're in, most people there need ESPN. Or the platform has helped them grow their brand in a way that it wasn't there before.

But when you have a few outsized personalities who don't need the network, they're going to behave accordingly. And that's not to say that there's anything wrong with what they're doing. But it is to say that when that power dynamic shifts, that's when things get more hard, more difficult. You know, it's funny. Skip Bayless of all people told me this a long time ago. And this is when I was in my very early years at ESPN, I got to ESPN in 2006. And he said, one of the issues at the network is that he said they treat you differently depending on whether or not they feel like they made you. And his entire, you know, we were just having sort of a, you know, just a casual conversation.

And what he was basically saying is that like the people there that they feel like they are directly responsible for how their career is blossom. They tend to treat a certain way versus the people who they know they're not so attached to being there or they feel the people who know that they didn't make them, that is you get treated a little bit differently because you're going to carry yourself a little bit differently. There's a lot of people there who can't imagine their lives and careers without ESPN. I was always somebody who could.

ESPN was never going to be my final resting place in this business. And so while the brand meant something to me and being there meant something to me and I took pride in my work while I was there, ESPN was not the end all be all to me. And I think what happens is they have so much leverage over so much talent that is there that there is this sort of fallen line that gets done there. And so a lot of times and I'm sure this is why you heard from people outside of ESPN who no longer work then people even inside the building. So when you see a Pat McAfee that comes on,

that is a huge glitch in the matrix, you sort of perversely cheer for this type of conflict. Because I certainly, I laughed. I mean, that was my very first reaction. I laughed so hard when I mean, that was my very first reaction. I laughed so hard when I saw that like, oh yeah, this is about to get very, very interesting. Listen, I love Jamal Hill, but I don't know how you guys keep talking about leaks. I mean, who cares? Everyone talks. Everyone's got a big mouth. Like, all right, life goes on. More importantly,

Lily Gladstone killers the fire moon best actress team Marty Greatwin and Paul G. Miley the holdovers go see it best actor. I love seeing him. I hope everyone sees this movie. Enough about the leaks. Go support cinema. I know Jamel's all in an Ava Duburnay's new film origin coming out next Friday. It's fantastic. That's all I got to say, okay? I don't understand how he ended up on here. How did he end up? That is okay. I don't understand how he was he just waiting in the shadows? Anti-leaks I'm curious

It is I mean leaks leaks. I mean I want to take a leak when Joe Koi was talking during the Golden Globe That was terrible that's one of the first moments you ever seen in my life. That's what I want to take a leak Don't live a tart Fall the rain drops were lemon drops and gun drops. Oh, what a rain that would be. Stugats standing outside with my mouth open wide. Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah. If fall the rain drops were lemon drops and gun drops.

Oh, what a rain that would be. This is the Don't let butar show with this two cats. Now, while we did that last segment, Pat McAfee started his show and he spoke on this. So I feel like it's fair. I don't know if this is an advancement in the story, but this is what he said. Pat McAfee quote, doesn't take anything back that he said about Norby Williams, but insists his relationship with the- Norby Williams son. insists his relationship with the-

Norby Williams son. And I heard your voice tremble as you said it. I can kind of understand. Are you not just officially scared of reading around here? I don't love it. I don't love it. Don't take anything back I said about Norby Williams and but insist that my relationship with ESPN is strong.

So not really an advancement there. Just kind of not taking back what he said, but just kind of stay at standing path he said, but just kind of stand standing path. Let's talk about this, okay, because the ESPN statement was how successful that no one cares about the success of ESPN more than Norby Williamson. And I will tell you that Norby Williamson, like I mentioned before, is the shadow president of the content, the way that it has worked in my experience. I wasn't there the whole time, is that the real power DSPN resides with the CEO, Skipper Shapiro before that, Petaro now, the guy

dealing with the billion dollar deals is the real power. And then there's a gulf of difference between executive number one and executive number two, where the second executive is just keeping the trains on the tracks because they've got a lot of channels, a lot of content. If you could do that without headlines, you have succeeded. Norby Williamson has succeeded for many years protecting sports center, protecting the brand.

First conversation I had with an executive of any kind that he has planned before working there was that executive telling me again and again how important that brand was brand protection brand brand brand after which I told him I don't care about your brand I don't care about that so it's not going to be governing what it is that I do but what you're presently witnessing is a person with an unprecedented power in forcing the press release on them where they defend the executive and the way they do business, which is purposely, like I said, feature, not a bug. Keep talent disposable, keep it so it doesn't feel too powerful, keep headlines away because it's a production company. I know it's the largest thing.

It looks like a large, large thing, but it's a place run by producers. And the producers know how to protect that power. And one of the ways that the power is protected is by making sure that talent gets only so unruly. But what do you do when your talent is not only not backing down, but you have proven with your salary that you gave him and everything else, unprecedented concessions. He could curse without it being something that he has to worry about in any way. Once you've given that person unprecedented power, I think all of us can say, given that he took a pay cut

to be there, tore up a deal like hours with draft kings in order to take less money and exchange for the reach of ESPN so that they could rent Pat McAfee's voice. Why does he have to respect their constructs? He does not have to respect their constructs. And I think that's where you get into a difficult spot where the producers aren't going to actually be able to control him. They're going to just request his decency and the other people who aren't this one person,

Mike, who I believe it's his job. I believe that Skipper and Petaro and everyone else are meant to look like charming people who will never do the wrong thing because they've got a fault guy willing to be the person who stamps out everything around all the fires around him. Yes, and I do think that the timing in this is important because you said years ago you may believe differently

now, but years ago ESPN does not tolerate ESPN on ESPN crime. And in Pat's case, it was ESPN on corporate Disney crime because you had a scenario in which ESPN is paying one guest that reported million dollars to appear on another guest show who they pay tens of millions of dollars to, to take out essentially a talent that they've paid hundreds of millions of dollars to. And you would think while caught up in all of that, it would lay low.

But he decided just mere days removed from the original Jimmy Kimmel controversy that he was going to call Norby Williamson who above all at ESPN. And he's had an unbelievable climb over there. I believe he began as a PA on sports center. He has survived. He has survived different administrations, different presidents over at ESPN. He is a survivor as we know from our time over there.

That is a mighty big swing that you're taken. And that is a mighty disparaging remark in a serious accusation to which I'm again confused as to why. Throughout all the years, they still have a leaking problem. We had Ann Ann who minimized it, but he was also caught up in a leaking contract. I hired for it. Yes, and I think per the settlement, maybe a little exonerated from it, but it is a serious

accusation. We've sat through the Mark Hamill compliance videos where they go through this. And yet the leaks continue. And I don't think nearly enough is being done about that. I think Pat McAfee is right to say, now there is a plot hole in what Pat say because he accuses this executive in question, nor be of being the only person that has access

to being one of a handful of people that has access to these numbers and the accurate numbers. And then in the same breath, saying that the numbers aren't accurate anyways. So why would someone leak out inaccurate numbers if they had access? How would you know they had access to the accurate numbers? That's a conversation for another day. Maybe it has something to do with mobilizing a spin strategy. But norby is always survived. and he's always won these battles, but a talent like Pat McAfee has enrolled through that in a long time.

Not with this power. Not with this power. Not with power that the direct relationships are above Norby Williamson in the corporate hierarchy. Can I ask the question that everyone listening to this is afraid to ask? Is Norby short for something i don't know either way not a huge fan of the net

but on the poll are we still making uh... norbert's i was wondering when arthur smith was let go are we still making arthors i can't imagine naming a baby right now arthur but might be being fired by an arthur you uh... you mentioned that's too Arthur's dad the father both older though like can you picture like a uh... Arthur born in two thousand and twenty three well Arthur is a name that comes from money and that is a situation that or through smith found himself in and

just wait till his dad hears about this you cannot you cannot imagine a baby Arthur none of us can imagine third i think that's what makes him playing yes you can only be an author these. None of us can imagine. Unless it's the third, I think that's what Mike's implying. Yes, you can only be an Arthur these days if there are Roman numerals following the last name. I will put this to you and I've had difficulty talking about all of this publicly because any time I talk about this, somebody hits me with salty or bitter when I just find the power protection dynamics to be hugely interesting. But when Mike talks about the leaks, because I was hurt, I was hurt by the information that kept coming out in papers

before it got to me at the end where I kept getting surprised by things that were obviously being leaked. But you've got it wrong, Mike. ESPN does not have a problem with leaks. They have a problem with leaks from us. The other leaks are purposeful. The other leaks are done so that they can control the people that they want to be controlled. On these errors, I've deduced quite, it doesn't take a genius to figure this stuff out

and Pat had his own theory, which is in line with some of the earlier theories that you might have heard. Yeah, it's a double standard there because we've sat through, I've sat through a town hall meeting where Norby Williamson himself underscored the importance on the heels of Adnan's thing,

underscored the importance of not leaking of Adnan's thing, underscored the importance of not leaking. But what is the convenience here? Why would some, what, what does that person have to gain? The leaker in question, not necessarily. I'll tell you, I'm going to tell you, I'm going to tell you right now, for example, okay, an example, and I can give you a bunch of them. But when Mina Kimes signs her contract and all of a sudden becomes a politicized avatar for how is it that you would pay someone who isn't hand in the dirt, football player experience, this amount of money to talk about football on television.

What they did by leaking my salary, the thing that they did is showed everybody who's reading this on a sports page, Mike, or reading this on the internet, who's like, how the bleep does that guy or that woman get paid that much to do that. Because anybody who likes sports, you're going to look at one of us who gets to do this for a living. How did that happen? I thought where was it happening randomly? I got it back here, Dan. I got a topic for us. Wait a minute, I don't need a topic. But the box is right here. the box. Okay, go ahead

I don't understand why we're stopping now. I don't understand either you don't control yeah, I don't control it when it happened Please be current now looks like a good one. It's not Please be current now looks like a good one. It's not Kind of kind of early Super Bowl predictions. Oh Not kind of early. I got a couple futures here Look there's no doubt in my mind the San Francisco 49ers are making it to the Super Bowl, and I probably just jinxed them, but... But, da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da as one of them. I like the Browns and Bills in the AFC. I was just looking at all the playoff matchups. There is not a single game

that you know the result that's gonna happen. I swear in the first round usually the two verse seven, like these games are usually, there's no contest here. Every single matchup. The Steelers are gonna lose. Even the Steelers, that's probably the biggest lopsided one, but like Billy said, I think I can see it

You can see Pittsburgh winning at Are we all universally on the Niners to win the NFC? Who do you like the Rams? Rams are sneaky good Like would you be shocked with the Packers beat the Cowboys? I would not be. I would love that, especially to happen to Mike McCarthy. Dan, who do you got? Jessica, wait a minute. Wait a minute.

That's my analysis. I like Hyromiliams. I like Pukin' Akua. Yeah? Shondik Bay, been there before. That's what I was doing. That's what I was doing. That's that.

I have 14 seconds left in this segment. To give us your Super Bowl match. There was something else I was... That's that. That's that. Kind of early Super Bowl match. There was something else I was dead at that that that that that that kind of early Super Bowl match trying to talk about. What do you like? I like talking about what I like talking about.