The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - Hour 2: The Bevacqua-Off 2.0 (feat. Jessica Smetana)

Episode Date: December 10, 2025

"When you're so effective at not giving us the tears, we're gonna search for it where we can." "Where's Jess?" you ask. "Where's Jessica's tears?" you question. Well, she's here, and she's not hiding from anything... except for seemingly everyone because of her Mabel-from-Only-Murders-In-The-Building costume. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Tony's top ten? No, we'll get to that. Top five. Don't you worry. We'll get to Tony. But we have all been waiting with bated breath. Today's Wednesday. It's the middle of the week.

All right. What took her so long? The selection show. was Sunday. Chris, are you still the EP? And she's finally here. There she is. Why didn't you guys just have me come in on Monday?

I've gone through all five stages of grief now. I'm on to acceptance. That you do this every time. Damn it. After the Northern Illinois game last year, I wasn't in on Monday for some reason. This year, we know the selection show Sunday. You have me in three days.

I've had three nights to sleep on this. Why didn't we book her for the first step of the grieving process? I'm here on step five. Why is Lucy here? I'm Mabel. Mabel Serp? Oh, from only murders, I get it. No!

All right, Jess. Look, none of us have spoken to you. I've gotten text messages from friends. I've gotten messages on Twitter. I'm at Zazl. Show him a great follow. And people are asking me, where is Jess? I want Smatana's tears. So let's start out with this, okay?

Sunday set us the scene. How did you experience Sunday afternoon? I could not believe that after all of these years of fandom that I put into this thing, Baby Lando was the driver's championship of the 2025 Formula One season. I mean, I was just, I was bawling my eyes out. It was incredible. Thank you for asking. Oh, this is a good shit.

I've reprogrammed my brain to know that she's never going to give me anything. So when she does something like that, it's better than tears, honestly. Jess, I think your AD is actually knocking it out the park in terms of... Babacua. Babacua? Babacua? Bavacua is doing a great job in making Golden Domas happy. Is he?

He's making Notre Dame fans happy. They like the way he has represented himself in the school? I think it plays. I think Notre Dame fans are going to just dig their heels in more now. I think they feel like ESPN, you, thank you, Danny, not GQ, Danny B. That's who I am, Zaz. And, I mean, I think they're just, yeah, like, Notre Dame fans already know everyone hates Notre Dame.

I don't think this, like, people are like, well, Notre Dame gave up the one hour of sympathy we're going to give them. It's like, oh, you mean people are going to not like my football team now? That's crazy. I've never felt that before. Yeah, I think of all the options, at least, like, given his fan base, a pound of flesh, because they have several rights to be upset. upset here, upset with the process, upset with Greg Sanky and the SEC's influence over it. But I think Pete was smart in seizing on the ACC thing, which, trust me, I've listened to all the content out there, Jess, including your interview on Echoes with Pete Bovacqua.

Was it good? Yeah, I enjoyed it. Look, all this content is great tent. Irish breakdown for me, that was the best one, because they were legit pissed off. Oh, yeah, that guy's angry. Yeah, he was angry. but I think in a distant third, and maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong, a distant third was the ACC shouldn't have sent out those mean tweets.

And I think Pete has seized on like that one thing, given his fan base a pound of flesh, and that is something that he can win because nobody minds punching at Jim Phillips. No one respects him. Yeah, I think that to me personally, this is where I think I diverge with Pete Bovacqua. Like I thought the tweets were honestly a little embarrassing

given just how the ACC just have, they have like no followers on Twitter. If you look at like their account, it has like 90, it has less followers than me. And I don't even, I have deleted Twitter from my phone for like last month versus the SEC, which has like over a million, I'm pretty sure. So like they're kind of pathetic attempt to like campaign for the- 93,000 followers on Twitter. That's really bad to justice point. Again, it's fewer than me.

And I don't use Twitter very much anymore. So I kind of thought like the ACC. thing. I understand why the money people are mad. That's kind of what he implied on our podcast. The SEC has 798,000 followers. So anyways, I think that the money people are mad. I think the people that are in the room with the ACC administrators when they negotiate and all of that.

It seems like those are the people that are mad and Pete Bovac was wearing it. I don't think that that's the central issue that anyone has with any of this. I think that's just the big headline because obviously it ties into the Notre Dame conference independence conversation, which we're constantly having. I think the bigger issue is the weekly ratings shows. I think that that's something that, you know, if Notre Dame had not been ranked ninth throughout most of the season, continued to win and were left out in the final ranking,

they are going to play in a bowl game. I don't think any of this goes down the way that it went down Sunday. So I think that that's where the frustration is. But I also think that's something that isn't unique to Notre Dame fans. I think, Mike, you've been saying all season, And Dan has been saying all season, what a farce the Tuesday shows are and how you listen to the, you know, spokesperson for the committee talk. And the more they talk, the less you really have faith in what the actual process is. Oh, 1,000 percent, like the logic that he gave for Alabama leaping Notre Dame in the penultimate episode, which was just getting over the line over a five and seven Auburn team because it was a rivalry game and because they went for it a couple of times.

I think the real injustice here is that I do think Notre Dame kind of got caught. They were in the awkward situation because everything that I sampled, no one was like that comfortable arguing that Notre Dame should be in over Miami. A lot of the things that I heard was they should both be in. And they kind of got caught with their pants down a little bit because in the penultimate rankings, they were still ahead of Miami. They've been led to believe for a month that head-to-head wasn't going to matter when really they should have spent that month campaigning against the likes of Ole Miss.

Oklahoma, Alabama, because I truly believe Notre Dame to be a better team than those. But this was positioned because of how unjust disregarding head-to-head was as Miami Notre Dame. And by the time Saturday rolled around, you had had Nick Sabin, Kirk Herb Street, Urban Meyer, everyone kind of coming out a line saying Miami should be in if that's the case. Yeah, but that's where playing in a not playing in a conference kind of factors in because no one's going to advocate for Notre Dame other than the athletics director and, you know, Marcus Freeman and things like that, which I do want to say one caveat. I think that it's kind of lame that we've all accepted, like, public campaigning as part of the college football playoff selection committee. And, like, I just don't, like, that shouldn't be a thing.

I don't know. You can't obviously avoid going on the internet or watching ESPN if you're on the committee. But I do, I do think that that is part of the thing that's like, okay, this, why are we, why does it work? It shouldn't work. That's why I was annoying everybody for a month because I knew, like, every time I was like, is this to be too much? No. Yeah, that's why for sure. No, no, that is 100% why.

Oh, I swear to God. No, this, that shit matters. And it's honestly like a blight on the entire system that stuff like that matters. Bullying works. We've seen public pressure. Getting your message out there influences those that have more influence. Yeah, I think that that's where being independent factors in where you're not going to have. your conference like you know Greg Sanky does a great job of and with the help of ESPN their

partner making the SEC games that are are not big games feel like big games right like they're able to prop up like a Missouri Oklahoma game and be like this was this was the big game this weekend I think Notre Dame understands that that's like the cost of doing business if you want to stay independent so Jess why does Bevacroix think that he has elected stand on when it comes to being critical of the ACC in this spot um I think because he feels that Notre Dame is a good financial partner for ACC. They have the five-game scheduling agreement, and he said in his press conference yesterday, ACC games on average sell out 23% of the time when Notre Dame plays,

and then they sell out 90% of the time. So it's his belief and Notre Dame's belief that they help the ACC make a lot of money, even though they're not full members. But wouldn't the ACC benefit more from Miami or any other team in their conference making the postseason than Notre Dame? Yeah, they'll actually get money from Miami making the postseason Notre Dame got to keep all of the money

that they made last year in their postseason run, which was $20 million reportedly. It's a lot of money. So yes, absolutely. And I think that this is a like, again, this is where I think less of the issue is with the ACC and more of the issues with the college football playoff committee because

when they expanded to the 12 team playoff, the thought process was, okay, you know, we're finally going to get the 12 best teams, right? Like, we're finally going to get teams that can actually compete for national championship. And I think it's very hard to argue that at the end of the season, Alabama is a team that can compete for national championship. And it does fly in the face of something that was argued on Alabama's behalf in 2023 when Florida State was left out, which was how are these teams playing at the end of the season? Well, Alabama's playing well, Florida State lost their quarterback.

So that was really important two years ago. And now it's not as important in this ranking. And it's once again helped an SEC team get in. So I think that's why. why there's frustration with the process and with ESPN. And the fact that, like Mike said, like, you could have flipped Notre Dame in Miami last Tuesday after they both played their 12th game. And I think everyone would have been like, okay, well, Miami went 10 and 2, didn't know if that would happen. Notre Dame went 10 and 2.

Now we look at the 10 and 2s and we look at the 2s and Miami beat Notre Dame and they should be ahead of Notre Dame. And I think that a lot of people would have accepted that at that point. But instead, Alabama moved up after beating Auburn and then ultimately got destroyed. in their conference championship game. The most lopsided conference championship game this past weekend didn't even go below Miami, who I believe, by the committee's own logic, they should have.

Miami should have had the higher seed in the playoff because they actually beat Florida State this year. And I think, you know, ultimately this is just really, once again, an instance of a SEC team getting in that doesn't really have the best resume at the end of the season. Hey guys, Tony here. This Tuesday at 8.30 Eastern, it's the Emirates NBA Cup Championship game on Prime.

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Four additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dkng.com slash audio. Limited time offer. Don Lebertard. You can't talk about double-digit national titles when every single call of you winning the national title. Sounds like this. Oh, there's, there's Steppy Jacker running down the sideline. That's not true. Yeah.

And there's a World War II veteran pitching it to another white guy and he avoids another white guy. Oh, my God, Notre Dame. The Fighting Irish have done it again. I'm like eight-time. All we're paying white people. Spookats. Chubby Checker. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. He's black. He's black and I was really like, it was a white name chubby checker. I think I'm like, I'm sorry, man. I'm improv in here. It's a pretty cool rib. He spells it differently. He spells it differently.

All right. His name is chubby. Maybe you didn't hear me correctly. His name is chubby checkers. There's an S at the end. I feel like that should be the largest of fall. It sounds like a college football name. This is the Dan Levitar show with the Stucats.

They rigged the game by moving Alabama up, I feel, because if Miami clears the Notre Dame hurdle, as you suggested, in the penultimate episode. Then everyone's viewing that SEC title performance with negative three Russian yards by Alabama as a direct comparison, Alabama, Notre Dame, instead of the cluster conversation that we were having. But it's also why Pete Babak was very smart in changing the narrative around the ACC because the problem here is Greg Sankey's influence over the College of Football Playoff Committee, but Babacua's not going after Greg Sankey. No, Notre Dame has scheduling agreements with a number of SEC teams over the next 12 years. I think doing business with the SEC is good for Notre Dame. So yes, Mike, to your point, and he specifically

in his press conference yesterday said that he was texting Greg Sankey over the weekend, and he is a friend of his. So yeah, I think you're not going to, I think what the ACC did when they were tweeting about Miami and Notre Dame was they picked a battle that they thought they could win because Notre Dame is not going to really fight back. They're not, you know, they lost the game to Miami. I mean, let's be frank. They lost in week one. And I think that the ACC doesn't feel like they can pick a battle against the SEC and win.

I think the ACC doesn't have a firm leg to stand on when their conference championship game is between 7 and 5 Duke and 10 and 2 Virginia. So I think that, like, they picked a battle they thought they could win. They ultimately won it, pissed off one of their partners, whether or not they care about that remains to be seen, whether or not anything really comes of it remains to be seen. But, Jess, it was overly sensitive. If you see the tweets in question, especially from a 90,000 followed account, like they're just touting head-to-head. In fact, like I heard a lot of podcasts saying they didn't take shots at Alabama.

Yes, they did. They touted Miami's resume against Alabama, too. I think, like, from the replay. It was also replaying the game nonstop on ACCC network. It almost felt like Notre Dame was trying to like the position after the fact and their anger was kind of directed like, shame on you for shining light on the head-to-head match. which was kind of like, kind of BS.

Like every Notre Dame, even you, like, even you, just like on some of your content, like you never argued that Notre Dame should be over Miami. It was kind of like, well, let's just see. Like, I heard the Shane Gillis interview. Like, I'm kind of, I was kind of hoping they were going to screw Miami because I never felt comfortable making that argument. And I just think that this is more a Greg Sankey problem. He's talking to Hunter Eurocheck, who's an AD of a school that's in his conference every day.

And I think that you guys got boned by how this all played out. but I also think it's kind of soft to be punching down on Jim Phillips. What did you make of Brett Yourmark's comments yesterday? I think that it is, it's sad that it's punching down on a conference commissioner from one school's AD. I think that that tells you everything you need to know about that. And yeah, Brett Yormark, he's obviously going to pick a popular side and try to make himself look good and all this. I don't care what he says about beep of aqua. That's his opinion. That's fine.

Jessica, were you aware of the arrangement that Notre Dame has starting next year, where they automatically get in if they're in the top 12? It was gently reported on a few months back in the athletic, I believe, and then I saw Ross Dellinger posted about it again. We asked Peepa Vakwa about it on our podcast, The Echoes. I saw Tony making fun of our podcast on Instagram earlier. Me? I do want to say, my application to be a co-host on the crossover with Keon Dueling was denied.

So this is the best I could do, tell me, this podcast with Gojo. Notre Dame fan. Kiann doesn't like that. Yeah. But I don't even remember your question. The memorandum of understanding. About the automatic bid, you know, being top of golf. Yeah, they still have to get into the top 12, which means they're probably going to have 10 or 11 wins on the season.

And aren't you worried that there might be guardrails against that? They'll just say, well, like, if this season played out the same way, like, well, then we'll just put BYU there. If we really don't want Notre Dame, you can just, like, rig the game a little bit. And even Pete was like, well, it's an understanding. It's implied, but they can do whatever they want with the top 12. That's not exactly what he said. What he said was it's a memorandum of understanding, not a memorandum of sort of understanding.

So I think that, yeah, I think that that is not necessarily an outcome that they would anticipate and expect. But yeah, I mean, who knows? This would still mean that Notre Dame has to be ranked in the top 12, which is not a given in any year. So they still have to be at least, you know, somewhat worthy of a playoff spot to even be in the conversation for that. Jessica, how long did Gojo practice his serious face here on this picture? I mean, you know, you know he does not have a serious face that comes naturally. This is work. You guys, you guys love doing like facial analysis of our podcast.

Yes. Did you post for this or was this taken like, you know, an action shot? No, these are just like screenshots. Jess, when you're so effective and not giving us a suffering, we're going to try to find it. wherever we can. And we found it in Michaelick Jr.'s, Charles Barkley, we need to start a dialogue phase. I don't know. He kind of looks like he's doing like a little bit of a model blue steel thing.

I mean, he looks good. No, I didn't say he doesn't look good. I'm just saying that he does not own that place. I'm trying not to laugh at how silly this entire thing is. You do look like you're on the verge of cracking right here. Yeah, anyways. So a lot of the national story outside of the ACC, Notre Dame stuff is, Notre Dame opting out of the Pop-Tart Bowl.

Jess, you have an ally with me here. I think that bowl game is ridiculous. Oh, you're nuts. I'm not going to talk down on the football. Shut up. This is your worst game ever. I love Pop-Tart ball. I like Pop-Tart Bowl.

May I speak? May I speak? I shut up late. Let me get a shot up. All right? I didn't want to be in that Pop-Tart Bowl last year because I was shut out. I understand. And to go to a Pop-Tart Bowl that just makes fun of the teams that are in it,

ridiculous. I knew you were going to say this. And as Jess, remember the narrative around the Pop-Tart Bowl last year. I had a month's worth of editorials and talking heads, teeing off on Cam Ward because he had the gall, the temerity, to sit out of half. Yeah, I know. Look, I think that I'm a huge fan of the bowl games. I love the bowl games.

The bowl games are some of my favorite times in the sports calendar. I personally don't think that A, Notre Dame opting out of the Pop-Tart Bowl spells the end of bowl games as we know them. I think that that's an overreaction. And B, I don't think it's a moral failing to not play in the Pop-Tart Bowl. The game is still going on.

I think the way that I've seen people react to this is like the Pop-Dart Bowl's been canceled. But, I mean, you should be psyched now because Georgia Tech gets to play in the Pop-Tart Bowl. No, we were going to play in the Pop-Dart Bowl anyway. It's BYU that came in and said like that. I mean, that's cute. No, that's not.

That's ridiculous. The ACC Big 12. Yeah. But that, I mean, like, I don't think it's the biggest deal in the world. I think that, like, if you're like, oh, Notre Dame, a bunch of losers are going to tick their bat and ball and go home, like, okay, that's fine. I think that they just had to decide within like an hour of finding out they weren't in the playoff.

And I think that the risk-reward of playing in a bowl game is entirely up to your players and your team. And the play, I would say if the athletic director or Marcus Freeman made the choice for the players, I would be like, ah, I don't know about that. Like, if the players want to play in the game, you should probably let them play in the game. But we asked Pete of Agua on the show whose decision it was. And it was a player-driven decision. And I think the risk reward is just not really there for a bowl game.

I wasn't crazy about how quick they were. And even if it were true, like, even if it were true, that decision came down pretty quick. I'm sure they had a meeting. It might be. Let's just say it is. I don't want to call them liars. I don't have any reason to believe that. I don't want to call them liars.

even if that is so, even if it was solely the player's decision, I thought it was kind of the bullshit, Zaz, to put it all on the players. That was the bullshit? I think that was the bullshit. You come out and you go on that line with your players. We discussed it internally, the administration, the coaches, and the players all decided, I didn't like how they put it on the team captains whatsoever. I don't think that's putting it on the team captains. I think it's the opposite. I think it's like we trust our team captains and we give them agency and making decisions about putting their bodies on the line in a bowl game.

Spin zone. Mike, I mean, I think like this show in particular is one that I would say more often than not takes the side of player agency and player empowerment. Maybe that's wrong. Not now though. No, no, no. Like I said, even if it were

so, I would like to see a little bit more alignment in every interview it was quick to put it on the team captains. I think that's way, I think it's way worse if the athletic director's like, We want to stick it to ESPN because they screw it. I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that.

I'm not saying that. I'm just saying don't put it totally on the players. I think the worst case scenario is Notre Dame plays in the Pop-Tart Bowl and C.J. Carr tears his ACL. And now we don't have to find out if that will happen. So I think as a fan, you're like, I personally, I'm torn about it. Like if it were up to me, I would probably want to play in the bowl game. And I like to watch the football games.

Like I said, I'd like to watch them have another game. And now the season's over. So I think that that sucks. but I also don't think that it's quite as big of a deal as a lot of people are making it out to be because it is a bowl game. Like the other comparison I've seen to Florida State who got, you know, totally screwed in 2023 is like, well, then they played in their bowl game, even though half of their team opted out. That was the Orange Bowl. That was not the Pop-Tart Bowl. We don't have a New Year's Six bowl option for teams that don't make the playoff anymore.

The Pop-Tart Bowl is like the Premier Bowl if you don't make the playoff. That's why it was going to be Notre Dame and BYU. It was one of my favorite games ever. The players that grow up in this era do not remember a time when the Bulls had importance. I would also add that. Oh, I'm psyched. I'm psyched that you're doing this. A fun side thing for most of these players' lives.

And I think that if they don't want to play in it, then that's fine. I'm psyched you're doing this because the Notre Dame brand is such that it calls to attention the whole bull system right now, which I think needs incredible reform. Again, I'm down with Notre Dame's decision there. I'd like to thank you for being a good sport. Check out the Echoes podcast with Mike Oleg Jr. and Jessica Smetana. They had Pete Babacqua on. I think Pete Povacua was really good.

And I like your Marcus Freeman, like you didn't lead with the Marcus Freeman question there. But it sounds like Pete knows that he has to drop a bag on Marcus Freeman, as he alluded to, in your interview, trying to make him one of the highest paid coaches in the sport. We have that comment from Pete Povacua. We've had some reporting saying, I think Pete Sampson said, Marcus Freeman will be back in 2026, yet if you look at some sports books, Marcus Freeman is the odds-on favorite to take over the New York Giants head coaching. Notre Dame was also a favorite to make the ploff.

I don't know if I'm going to trust the sports book with human decisions, Mike. I would say this. If Marcus Freeman leaves, I know a head coach who's available. He has experience coaching at a high level. He's the winningest head coach in Notre Dame history. That's right. Brian Kelly, come on down. And his family.

Just tell everyone, again where they could catch your recent talk with people of aqua. With the serious faces. Yes. It's a very serious podcast. Look, I will say we were the only podcast the Notre Dame Athletic Director went on this week.

We had podcast exclusivity. So, proud of me and Mike for doing this show. I'm, what, I mean. Did he go on that Patrick? I mean, are we differentiating like that between radio and podcast? Okay, we're doing that. Everything's a podcast now, Jess. All right, whatever.

He's starting his own. Babacqua and company. I'm still proud of us for getting the interview. That was a brand new podcast. That was a big deal. I've sampled it all. Your interview with Babacua was my favorite. I will admit that.

No, I'm telling you. And it was level-headed. And if you're listening, for some tears, I think Jess gave you more emotion in that moment than any other platform ever. It was Monday. It was Monday. This is the thing. It's like you wait until Wednesday. It's like, all right.

kind of moved on. I'm working on my Christmas baking situation now. I also want to say, hey, shout out to Miami electing a Democratic mayor I heard last night. Hell yeah. Yeah. Wow. Good job, Billy Corbin. That's a big day. All 21,000 votes.

That's how you win one. The Cuban switched over. Shout out the Cubans. I know you all voted for him. Yeah. Well, we were in a... It's not city of Miami. It's not even a real government. Jess, excellent job.

We're sorry to the audience that was hoping to drink your tears. Nonetheless, excellent appearance. They, I, once again, they only have you guys to blame. Next time, switch it to Monday. You're going to rock this outfit the rest of the day? What are you thinking? I think I look better as a brunette than I expected. Uh-oh.

I definitely think you would not have given us anything on Monday. Well, now you'll never know. See you, Jess. Cocaine's all those next year. Don Lebertard. I don't actually. many either stugats

Women stay home in the kitchen where they belong This is the Dan Lebatar show With the Stugats What do you guys? I think that was fun And I'm really deeply appreciative

Of our director Cutting away from her About to put the you upside down Oh I'm so happy I'm happy this happened to them. Oh man. This is Bafakwa. I listened.

You guys traded Tyler Hero. I'm happy for that. Well, you stopped short. But look, no one on South Florida Radio has been telling the truth since 1983, like this guy. And I had been right about damn near everything about this franchise over the last three years. That guy needs to go. I saw Windhorst came out and Windhorst claims that Tyler Hero has screwed up Kelowair and Jaime Hawkes is, quote, Mojo.

I saw that too. What a report by Wendy. Quote, Ware and Hawkes had bigger roles before Hero came back and playing grape. Since that has happened, in addition to Lee catching up,

them two have lost their mojo. Jeremy saying that's not a report back here. Well, but in addition is doing a lot of lifting there. But we caught up. Jeremy, you have to like, you're just like,

the last six games with Hero. They've looked different, but it's not here. Like, you've got to just acknowledge. It hasn't looked good since Hero's been back. It hasn't looked good since Hero's been back. outside of the time that they scored 140 points and the starting lineup took a 20 to nothing lead yesterday.

Like the lineup has been good. 15-0-0. The bench has really struggled, and that's a matter of several different players. I was saying to Amin during a break, I personally think that what they should be able to do is have Bam out of Bio and Tyler Hero playing more with the second unit,

because if the two of them are able to play with the second unit, then that means you'd be able to have what's happening. Will you be able to have ultimately To be able to see Kelle Ware play a little bit more with the starters Which is where he really was thriving earlier in the season And when Kelle Ware was more engaged Right, like he's able to be engaged with that starting unit

If you get him going early That's when you know you'll be able to have more success with him I'm in a bio and Tyler Hero or guys who can play with Several different kinds of players so If they're playing off of one another with that second unit, it might be able to help fix some of what's been going on. Wait, Lucy's here? I like force ghost, Jeremy the best.

I was like, oh, I'm gabbing the vision. Yeah, like, you look, Killow Ware, his problems are, his consistency. I don't think that's a Tala Hero thing. I think that's a Killow Air thing. Harkas, look, man, that's one of those things. You know how they talk about Miami? You guys always think your guys are better than they actually are. Hock is one of those to me.

He's just, I'm like, every time I watch him play, I'm like, I didn't like that. He was a former reigning MVP of the day. Yeah, and he could be a two-time if he has another great game one night. No telling him that he can't win it again. Guys, this is most obvious thing in the world that's been staring at you for three seasons. And I know he had an unbelievable bubble run where he kind of introduced himself to the NBA inside that bubble. But the Miami heat go on these runs. The Miami heat go on these runs without time.

Tyler Hero. The Miami Heat seemed to do just fine without their all-star. I understand he's a talented scorer. But for this system, under this head coach, he's a luxury that they don't really need. And I think he stands in the way of real progress for this franchise. And lucky for the Miami Heat, I do think he has value. Mike, I mean, I'm a little confused here. Are you implying like there's some circles or corners of at least Miami Heatdom where they're like, not Tyler Hero, he's a keeper? I've never heard that in that corner man he's not allowed to talk about that's not quite what I'm doing I'm just trying to discuss where it really works for

this group right like with this group having Tyler hero is in some ways it's redundant there are redundancies there that exist within the way that this roster is constructed but if you're going to take advantage of the roster that exists you need to be able to figure out rotationally where to stagger which players. And ultimately, like, having Tyler run that second unit, it hides some of the issues that Jaime Hockes has been having, right?

Like, he's been best in the open court when your defense is playing well and getting out in transition. Well, the defense hasn't been able to stop anybody with the second unit. They're missing a lot of open shots. And when that happens, the thing that he's able to do in getting to the rim in the open court, it becomes a much bigger problem and Tyler's able to fix some of those things offensively. Trista Crickler, ladies and gentlemen.

It also feels like his best situation is being a great asset as a trade piece, right? Because you look across the league and you're like, all right, who's somebody that can fill a very good void of contract, of playing style for a bad team if you want to get, you know, caps space on the books, or trade for a great player that somebody else will take? be like, yeah, I'll take him. That's all he's been, since he signed that deal. It was just like, this is the guy that you throw into a deal.

Whether it was Tamian Lillard, whether it was Kevin Durant, now it's Janus. That's all, that's why I'm a little confused. Mike is like, oh, I told you about Tyler Hero. Nobody out here talking about he's a keeper like that. You're right, but the narrative has shifted some as the data points start to mount up. Look, he's a nice score. I think that there are certainly teams in the NBA that his skill set is required and needed if they want to advance. I just don't think it's

down here. I'll do the Colin Cowherd Hand. He's a great number three. Tyler Hero. We're good, bro. Can I tell you what took place real quick while we were talking to Jessica there as Amin got very distracted? Dare I say Amin

was shook, all right? I was. Now, you guys know, I'm going to Washington, D.C. this weekend. I'm going to Saturday night's main event, John Cena's last match. This Saturday night is in the nation's capital. You catch some stocks and bonds? Don't you worry, all right? Stop, stop counting what's in my pocket. So I'm going on Saturday. And ESPN's doing all kinds of promotion. So on first take moments ago, they had Gunther in studio

with them. Gunther is facing John Cena in his last match this Saturday. Is that a marquee matchup? I thought like the last one would be like going out with some fireworks. I don't know that fool. It's good. You don't have to know him. In his last act or presumed last act, will John Encina finally put someone over. So, I think it's a big deal. I like it. Gunther was in studio, great. They flashed on the screen.

Now, this is kind of old news because Stephen A. Smith debuted this a few months ago. Like at the beginning of WWN ESPN's partnership, which began over the summer. And Amin was shook when they flashed across the screen, Stephen A. Smith's top five wrestlers of all time. Now, guys, I am a wrestling outsider, maybe even an enemy of wrestling, put into some people. But I looked at his list and I said, that can't be right. This has to be a typo. It's an embarrassment of a list.

Or something. Should we reveal the whole list or just go right to number one? No, you just say number one. Guess. I want a guess from you guys. I have experience with Stephen A's top five list when it comes to wrestling. It's horrific. Did they rehash it?

Yeah. Is it the same? Yeah. Is it, did this person play for the Atlanta Falcons at one point? Yeah. It's Goldberg. Yeah. Number one.

Goldberg sucks. Number one? It's not Stephen A. Smith's all-time favorite wrestlers. It's Stephen A. Smith's greatest wrestlers of all time. On the Stephen A front, I heard one of his rants yesterday. I caught it on social media. The name Pete Bavakwa was made to come out of that mouth with disdain. I mean, Bavacua.

It is. Has it overtaken Racho Nesterro. Tiago Splitter. It's in the class, Bovakwa. Slava Medvedenko. Tony, I heard you got a top five for us today. My official top five says. And Tony's top five is presented by Smyranoff, the official vodka sponsor of the National Football League, Smirnoff.

Please drink responsibly. The Smyranoff Company. New York, New York. Vodka, 40% alcohol by volume. No OLI. today, we're going to go straight to the top five. Number five, I love the annual Bills versus Bengals snow game. It always delivers.

There's something about it. You see those two teams except the last time when, you know, obviously something happened in the middle of the field that wasn't snowing that day. But every time they played in the snow, it's been a game that's delivered. I've never in my life, I mean, look, I've lived here in South Florida my entire life. I've never been to a cold weather football game.

Like, I can't imagine sitting in the stands for three and a because it's not like you're moving around staying warm, you're just standing in the snow for three and a half hours. Some of you're forgetting. You're hammered. Yeah. You need to drink a lot at the

bad boy mowers pinstripe bowl to not feel it. Get the ham warmers going. I'm telling you it's fine. Obviously I wouldn't want to do it every game, but like once every couple of years, fun. Number four, RIP to the Chiefs, it was a great run. It's official? It's over. You lose to the Texan the Sunday night football?

At home. That's why Nick Reiki. came out on a gurney, smoking a, whatever it was, a liberal silver. That was awkward with Nick. I put Nick in a body bag with that LeBron comment. Wow. You got his ass when you said he was 4 for 17. And everyone knows I'm always on the record.

That is true. Number three, I think the Jags may have a legitimate real shot to win the AFC. Dude, them in the bills, right? Who else is it? It's just, you look around the league and it's like, who's here? Who's still around? The Broncos maybe, the Patriots, maybe. Like, the Jags can get hot and something can happen.

I don't know. They can win the AFC. Is it a mean, okay? I mean, like, no. He gave us a Medvedenko. I've been dying for a fake Stephen A. Bavakwa, but he's done. He's fighting through right now.

Like right now, Tony, the first round of the playoffs, Jacksonville would host Buffalo. You think they're winning that game? Anything can happen. Bad Josh game. They get the ground game going with E.T.N. To Tony's point, though, outside of Buffalo, who do you try? trust more than them.

Maybe the Broncos of defensively, but like you don't super trust Bo Nix. I would trust, I think New England will beat them. New England, maybe, yeah. All right, so so far most of the field, we believe. No, but I disagree. I don't think, like, New England, yes, they look good in this regular season. We haven't seen doing the playoffs yet. I think the Jax can get hot.

Number two, someone please take a look at the Raiders kicking a field goal with no time left on the clock while back door covering seven and a half. Let's take a look at it. At least you're not calling for murder. I'm not calling for murder. murder, not yet, but somebody should take a look at that because careful. E, I didn't like that. Number one, very quick,

bear's frauds. It's over. They're not doing anything in the place. I'm not with. Well, okay, those are two different things. They're frauds. They're not doing any of the playoffs. Same thing. You saw Jordan Love on McAfee rocking the Toyota Thong quarters out. He knows. He knows what he's doing. He knows what he's doing. And guess what? He's starting to play well.

Of course he is. It's Toyotathon. Good job, Tony. Thank you, buddy. So we did a little bit of this with Dan earlier. Dan's up in New York City, of course. And... Little bit of this, little bit of that.

He's back. Yeah. So Rich Paul and Max Kellerman have a new podcast? Right? It must be new because Kellerman's out of hiding, you know? It's brand new. Yeah. Whenever I hear pairings like... like that, I'm always thinking to myself, how many episodes are we getting in?

Why just wonder, how did that come about? I think Bill Simmons has something to do with it. I think he pitched this whole thing. He's got some connections behind the scenes. Like he says to Kellerman, hey, you know, I think would be willing to do a show with you. Yeah, like, hey, Max, you're about to come out of, you know, whatever that contract hiatus that was. And, hey, you should do something with Rich.

Rich, you know what? Max is, you've always respected Max. You guys should do something together. I'm just like these guys are busy guys They're not doing a podcast How many times is it supposed to come out It's like a once a week kind of deal I imagine Even if it's once a week

Yeah So like are you surprised It's one of those season situations Well they do like a bunch of them That's season one and then do like another season Yeah that makes sense Like are you surprised at LeBron Is still doing these episodes of the mind the game

I think he's doing it with Steve Nash right Yeah he is I am surprised a little bit Because also there's a video component to that In terms of talking about plays and stuff But he seems to be committed to it so So we, you know. Jeremy's connecting dots with all of this.

I'm telling you guys, this Rich Paul and LeBron narrative all around, Pat Riley and Eric Spolstra, it's not happening for no reason. Yeah, Jeremy's been like obsessed for a few weeks now with how LeBron and now it's Rich Paul, any opportunity they have to give the Miami Heat and Eric Spolstra praise, you're like marking it down. I mean, it's happening constantly. Everywhere you look. Was there a cat? Everywhere you look, every time they're talking about one team or another, they're ultimately also just squeezing in. Hey, you know, right before LeBron comes back and he's playing,

was that Lil John? Right before LeBron comes back and he's talking to the media. He's saying, oh, I can play anywhere. I'm going to fit into what's happening with the Los Angeles Lakers. Why? You know, Coach Eric Spolster always said it, positionless basketball. I can play for any franchise in the NBA. Now, Rich Paul, when talking about what's going on with the Lakers,

and then maybe not being a championship contender. What does he do? He singles out Pat Riley in the competitiveness that the heat always had. That this is the way they do things. This is how they've always done things. Why is it surprising? It just has me asking. Has you asking?

Hit the button. Has you asking? What are they doing? Okay. So Rich Paul, a couple things stood out to me, and we talked a little bit about earlier. Well, the first one which we played earlier, you know, it was Rich Paul was not critical, but just straight up saying the Lakers, who are second in the West right now and are playing tonight in the NBA Cup against the Spurs, that they are not a championship contender. All right. I thought that was interesting.

And you wonder, you know, what's the M.O. there? because Rich Paul and, you know, who's, you know, a mouthpiece for LeBron most of the time anyway. Like, they don't say things not on purpose. Who says this show doesn't have a female voice? I'm happy to fill the rule. So another thing that stood out to me, I mean, was here is Rich Paul, again, with Max Kellerman. And Rich Paul is seemingly telling you the way that LeBron, right now with the Lakers, the way LeBron should be used. there's a couple things to be made change to be made in the short and along in the short

I'm putting I'm putting LeBron as the screener because no offense to Aiton or Jackson Hayes they're just not the decision maker coming out of picking road it makes it hard if you have Luca and LeBron and those rules I'm saying because it's oh lebron is overqualified for that role but now all you need in that case you've seen it the guy in the dunker spot and then the guy in the short corner if they make shots then you're very tough to beat.

So I always take a pretty simplistic view on this kind of stuff. I mean, for one, J.J. Reddick has done a really nice job by all accounts with this Laker team like overachieving right now, 17 and 6. You're telling me Rich Paul is saying something here that J.J. Redick

like hasn't thought about. No, I think he's saying something that he probably wants to be more in the forefront and wants to apply pressure to J.J. Reddick in that regard. The idea is like, look, it's not that J.J. doesn't know it, or even that J.J. thinks it's a bad idea. But I remember when Steve Kerr, you know, when they first did the death lineup, with Iguidala in the lineup and Draymond at the 5 and Harrison Barnes at the four, and the plus minus was off the charts, but Steve Kerr would never do it until they got in the playoff games and all that.

And they're like, why don't you do it all the time? Why isn't that your starting lineup? He's like, because that's not a card I want to play in the middle of December, right? Like, that's a card you play game six or whatever. Yeah, there's a reason. And so similarly, I would think the last thing you want is for the league to get tape on LeBron as a screener and how the Lakers do things. That's something you hold in your back pocket for another time, for a time where there's less preparation and more stakes at hand. Or is it also sowing the seeds a little bit for why LeBron events. will not be pleased with his, you know, new role in L.A.

But, I mean, you look at their team, they're second in the West in a really tough West. LeBron hasn't played. Luca and more so AR have carried that team to a 17 and 6 record. And it's like, LeBron, you've got to get in where you fit in. And if it's playing the Dunker Spot, if it's playing pick and roll, if it's playing that, like he's very equipped, like he said, overqualified to be in that position. So why not use it? Let me ask everybody a question then.

What's more important to LeBron at this stage in his career? being a role player on a Lakers team that apparently has a shot at winning a title or be in the main attraction for one last postseason run. I wonder where you might want to do that. For a team that has no shot? In the Eastern Conference, if LeBron James is here in exchange for not a lot?

Yeah, but for a team with no shot, that means there's only upside. There's some downside now with this Laker team. They're second in the Western Conference. They get to the postseason. LeBron doesn't play well, it's like, Jeremy just did the trade machine. It's Hero.

Who was it? It was Hero. I didn't trade anybody. Yeah, but come on. It was Gabe Vincent and LeBron for Hero and Rozier. Salary-wise works for LeBron and Gabe Vincent if you're adding a couple of things. There's expiring stuff. And if the Lakers wanted to add another score to what it is that they're doing.

No, they're just trying to add another score off the bench. Are you saying does it fix anything for Miami? Correct. Does that fix anything for Miami? Yeah, certainly another decision maker with that bench line up. And it gives the Lakers another white. guy who can score. That's true. Jake Laravia's getting real, real lonely

out there. It's like, oh, you know, Austin and Luca, they're cool together. I'm by myself where. Maxie Kleber never plays. And also, he's from another country. You really think, like, because he's chasing the Michael Jordan thing, right? He's chasing ghosts. Regardless of his impact

on that, like you could always frame it like LeBron was in his 40s when they won that title. Like, if he wins another one, don't you think that would go further than him just being the man on a Miami Heat team? that may get bounced in like the second round? No, he's got to win one where it's like, oh, it's clearly it was you. But I told you guys already where that's going to happen, and it's not Miami.

I don't even think it's Cleveland either. There's only one place where LeBronkin land. New York. Win a championship and have a count for a million championships. It's New York. There's no other location. All right, that's fine. So then the Neonis can come here instead of New York.

Sure. You want to trade Tala here on what, Terry Rozier for Yonnasier? We'll give Miovich. Come on. That seems like a good one. You're throwing in Yovitch? Oh, man, that's tough. Throwing anybody.

Sometimes you acquire big stars. It's got to hurt a little bit.