The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - Hour 2: The Curse of Bobby Layne

Episode Date: January 23, 2024

The entire crew breaks down exactly how Dan, Taylor, and the Shipping Container failed Ronny Chieng, a legitimately funny and charming man, during our interview with him at the end of the previous hour. Then, Jeff Daniels is a HUGE Detroit Lions fan and joins us to discuss his fandom, the breaking of curses, why this Lions run means so much to Detroit, and his upcoming acting projects. Plus, why do football fans hate math so much? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You're listening to Giraffe Kings Network. This is the Don Lebatore Show with the Stugatz Podcast. Chris Cody isn't in with us today. But if he was in with us today, he would have asked the loud, how's this going? That's seven times during that interview. There's a lot that went wrong with that interview. A lot. It was awkward. I was nearing a point where I was just going to wave both my arms over my head in surrender, saying, let's just restart this. But I think it was far more memorable the way that it was. But if I could deconstruct where we went wrong,

so many ways we went wrong. I'll limp in first. I think it was the first question. The first question was disastrous. It's just an awful question that puts our guests in such a terrible spot. The Daily Show had just made an announcement that they were going to rock with correspondence for a little bit. So he has to

answer this question on the heels of that. And it's a weird way to start an interview with a funny man. Dan, your immediate thoughts. I thought that that interview and everything that happened in that 12 12 minutes that in two and a half years since before freedom there has never been anything that we have sunk into that I have more wanted afterward for Stugots to jump into my arms like a baboon and celebrate, there's our f***ing show right there. A speedboat takes an awkward moment with a comedian. I have missed our show so much and I wanted Stugatz, I wanted to hold him, cradle him in my arms

because of how much I loved how awkward that was. I'm heavier now, just so you know. That is correct. From a technical standpoint, yes, knowing how difficult it's been to pull things off, I would like to say a marvelous technical achievement for us. So that was a W then. A big W.

Not a lot of shows doing live speedboat hits. Or maybe a draw. I am totally with Dan. I thought it was a great segment. It was uncomfortable. I think our audience will love it. And for the most part, I think that because they haven't experienced that kind of sloppiness in a couple of years.

When you say they'll love it, I think they'll initially hate it. Yes, of course. And then once we've been able to change the narrative about, hey, look at us, we pulled something off. Who cares if it was good or bad? We did it! And you were with us that entire pirate phase. This is a massive achievement.

The signal held the entire time time now Taylor was all so bad Oh, I mean That's part of the ice well That's part of the problem, but I don't want to blame him. Yeah part of the problem Well, he asked about the chief segment don't put anything on Taylor. He's pills. He asked about chief's bills Yeah, that's true. Oh, okay, and he did tell him that he never watched the Daily Show and doesn't like it It's not I favorite of me. I love you, but I never watch you do your job.

I was trying to mentally prepare myself to be the voice of positivity here and be like, guys, I think maybe if we give this some room, it wasn't as bad as we thought. But seems like you don't need it. Seems like you guys are very happy with how that went. Well, but happy with how poorly it went. Yes.

Not happy with how well it went. I felt alive. Right? I felt like I too was in a cigarette boat at 100 miles an hour, but let's talk to Lucy and Roy about this. Yes, you guys sank into your shame like the audience did. Yes, always do.

I was just quiet because Ron, he's not gonna remember me from that. I'm good. He's gonna remember all you guys. It was a disaster, but everybody's gonna love it. I thought it was a really bad interview that we were really poor in. You're not talking about me though.

Agreed, no, that one would fall to me. You lived up to expectations. Thank you, yes. That one would fall to me. That is my responsibility. I am not arguing on behalf of it being a good interview. I'm arguing on it being a bombardment of stimuli that included a cigarette boat and a degree of difficulty

that we didn't execute well necessarily, but that we had the balls to try to execute it. It doesn't happen without your first clunky, terrible question. That's correct. Again, though, there was a thank you, Dan. Yes, thank you, Dan. Thank you.

Thank you, Dan. Thank you, Dan. correction again though thank you damn thank you damn thank you damn thank you damn excellence is my calling card yes you're welcome nowhere else in media will you find something done quite that poorly aggressively and with more resources state of comedy discussions have gone so well for us over the these last few months that I don't blame you for asking a comedian about it. I never do that. I wasn't just asking though. I was asking when has he ever been asked that while we interrupt him incessantly with someone going a hundred miles an hour on the speedboat? Right. The music was a winner because it's a funny device to introduce Taylor. Taylor actually

grabbed the music so I think this is a wonderful launch to Taylor's Swift report. There's a lot of things that we can do differently, learn from them. Including the fact that we achieved to actually get in this on the air. Is you understand that this is building to him jumping out of a plane? Swiftly him going in a car swiftly. Yes, all things swiftly. That's right. And giving takes falling out of an airplane or a helicopter like before you hit the water. What makes you think he wants to do that? I can see that

he's already settled in. Why do you want a career or not? Taylor, why do you have a microphone? Like you want to talk some more? If you want me to. How do you feel like all of that? I think you got us off on the wrong foot. I don't want to blame you by any stretch of the imagination. That seems like good for your career. But that seems like a good move. Jesus. I was trying to get us back on track with some sports questions. He didn't seem like he wanted to answer the comedy question, so that's why I went back to this.

Cheese bills. And then I messed up. The game had happened already. Hand up. Hand up. All right, thank you for taking accountability after blaming the founder of the company for that. But let's, I've never, I've had athletes tell us,

you guys wanna talk about sports? I've never had a non-athlete. I don't want us to pivot the discussion to sport. Can I pitch an idea for the segment? Taylor Swiffer, and he just goes around and uses a Swiffer kinda cleaning things up. We can sponsor that. Yeah.

Are you listening? Jeremy, what was your favorite part of that interview? I think it was when he said, why get one bad answer when you can have two. Yeah. That was great. I'm going to play my favorite part from this interview now. Your first question?

No. No. My favorite part is the general awkwardness in the dismount of whether or not he would. The place that I blew it is I didn't say talk to you tomorrow like I did with Dolyak at the end when it was so clear that he would place he would not that was the place let's hear this part of the video do you have that ready let's just hear the dismount where

he clearly isn't coming back on with us again well we're gonna have you on again and do it right and do it better without someone on a speedboat okay if you would be if you would do us the courtesy of doing it again because I botched the first six minutes of this I don't blame you if you don't but but thank you for this with the first It was right after that you wanted to hug me I don't, but thank you for this. I lost you with the first question. Yes, I did lose you with the first question. It was right after that, you wanted to hug me. Let's run it back. Right there, right there. Look, I wanted to jump into Stugatz's arms

in the middle of that response. You've gotten heavier too. Yeah, can we run it back from the very beginning? There's one thing I want to relive when Dan's about to ask him, have you you back and before he gets an answer out his initial visceral reaction is to shake his head No, as soon as he's hearing this one more time, please Well, we're gonna have you on again and do it right and do it better without someone on a speedboat If you would be if you would do us the courtesy of doing it again because I botched the first six minutes of this

Maybe not He did it twice We'll have him on tomorrow right no I'm gonna repair it I'm gonna spend I'm gonna spend my time off air repairing it. He will be on back again tomorrow. Mike, it's a great observation. I've never seen a person shaking their head no while saying sure. Right?

Let me see it again, please. I wanna just watch, I wanna watch. Lucy, how do you feel about everything that we're watching back right now? Uh... Ha ha ha ha. Well, we're gonna hand it on again and do it right and do it better without someone on a speedboat, okay?

So if you would do us the courtesy of doing it again because I botched the first six minutes of this. Maybe not. Sure. Maybe not. You want Ronnie to like you, I can tell, because you just said I'm gonna fix this. Let me tell you something, he never wants to hear from you.

Don't reach out to the man. Just take this L, he won't be your friend. He's not, you're not gonna fix it. You're gonna make it worse. I don't think I am. I think I'm gonna repair it. What would you guys like to bet? That you can repair the relationship with Ronnie?

Let me tell you something. If this ends with another Ronnie interview, we all lose. I don't believe that. I believe he's a very funny man. Not because of Ronnie though. He was actively- Is Dan's going to ask another bad first question? Yeah, but Dan was happy.

I was happy. We've been kind of, you know, going through the weeds for two years and we found something that felt like our show from like four years ago. I don't know. I was looking at Dan differently. I gotta be honest. I wanted to hug him. It was new again.

Yeah, you want more opportunities to be bad. Yes. Okay. Roy, what are your feelings about this? Don't do this again. Why? Just, he means. Don't want us to be happy?

He means talking to microphones. Just stop talking. Just stop talking. Just stop talking. Just stop talking. Just stop talking. Stugaccia from My Friends over at SimplySafe and telling you about them for years why I have had their home security system in my house for many, many years protecting both me and my family.

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I think I'd like to know when I'm gonna die because I sort of romanticize the idea of like living like you were dying And when you're on a countdown clock imagine all the life experiences like I could go skydiving or Rocky Mountain climbing Stugots! Roy brings up a point though like Roy does bring up a point like you might be risking paralysis and it's a pretty correct Just totally trample my mind what if God forbid it says you're gonna die like a week what if it says a week though like or two days or a month I don't want to know that well then you just love deeper and speak sweeter and give forgiveness is owes that you've been denying someday I hope you get the

chance to live like you were dying do Do you have more or is that it? No, thank you guys for letting me go through that smoothly. This is the Don Lebatar Show with the Stugats. I am a big fan of this guy for a number of reasons. Stugats, I would say that the first eight minutes of the newsroom that he delivers, I don't know how long he practiced it, but it was mesmerizing and as good a piece of television as I've ever seen him doing meticulous Aaron Sorkin's work. And I've been told that Aaron Sorkin does not allow a lot of edits to what he's doing and just crushes good an opening to a

season of television that I've ever seen. And he's got a whole lot of other stuff on his resume but what he wants to talk about because I'm sure he talks about that stuff all the time. He's beaming right now. Yeah. Is that he is a Detroit Lions fan and my god he has been a loser for such a long time and now he is a winner. Look at him, radiant. Look at him. You, Jeff, tell me what's going on in your soul right now how you're dying during games that the end of that rams game I am certain you shit yourself right in the living room uh yeah down the leg uh it was I'm my in my soul pure unadulterated joy. It's just we've never ever felt like this in

Detroit and you know decades of darkness and all of that so it is it is beyond just oh we're in it again over contending again we've never do and so this is an entire city and state that's just levitating. Explain to me, though, what it's been to care about this team for as long as you've cared about it. Explain to me the roots of your fandom and what a jerk you felt like falling in love with this team for so many years and hoping. Well, I, you know, I go back to the 60s. I remember my favorite lion was a wide receiver named Gail Cogdill and, you know, quarterbacks like milk plum, nitrate lane, you know, Roger

Brown, Alex Karris, Wayne Walker, Joe Schmidt, all those guys. That's, that's where I kind of grew up. And, you know, and you stay with them because they're your team. And you just, the experience to go around the country and you know, run into Tom Brady fans who are, you know, going for their, you know, fifth Super Bowl or something is you just, it was humiliating. It was decades of darkness. And then there was a curse of Bobby Lane. We had to deal with, is that a a real thing? I mean what's going on here? And then all of that has gone away Can you explain to me the curse of Bobby Lane?

well it apparently he in in 1957 the Lions won their their last nfc champ the nfl championship and right off the bat two games in the next season they traded bobbie to pittsburgh and bobbie was instrumental he's the quarterback he was also a gun slinger he was a drinker he was a brawler he was you know it was a different era and the lions retired of it and they traded him to pittsburgh and on his way out of the locker room back there in 58 he said this this franchise will never win for 50 years and some people say he never said it other people say that he did

but it sure looked like it and 50 years was an underestimation of how long it would take for us to feel like this again, but You know, I have a feeling the curse is broken Be careful with that. Let's Because they've tried to break it before Jeff tried to with Peyton Manning. Let's play the video and have Jeff Daniels narrate What's happening here? Let's play the video of Jeff and Peyton Manning trying allegedly to break the curse of Bobby Lane My own drugs. Trust me Jeff, Google curse breaking spell and you'll come up with this.

Fill a tub with a hundred cups of water and a cup of salt. Doesn't smell like water. Because it's whiskey. Bobby Lane would have preferred that. If this stuff really works, why didn't you use it to put a hex on the Patriots? Belichick's dark magic was just too strong by the because they're a bathtub in the end zone afford field uh... did you break it there i don't feel like you broke it there i don't feel

like you should be calling on the one defined when we define uh... when it's broken you know do we have to win the super bowl maybe are in that case's a work in progress, but it's definitely trending in the right direction because once that aired last, I mean, a year ago, October, a year and a half ago, apparently we've gone 22 and eight and usually it was the other way around. So it's a work in progress. That's for sure. When is the last time or anytime the lions have felt close to this for you? Has to be Wayne Fontz. I mean, not even them. Really?

No, not like this. Not like, you know, the Tigers in 84 or the Red Wings, then they won the cup after 42, 44 years. That's what this is times two because it's been so long. No, I have never felt this, not in my lifetime, not with the Lions. Can you explain to me what it means to have this as part of your regional identity in Detroit and what it means to the city of Detroit and what do you think is happening all around you in Detroit? Well, we've always been, you know, we live in flyover country and they fly over us for the reason because they don't want to be around us or they want to get to the coast, they want to get to where the more important, bigger, you know,

all that stuff. So there's always been kind of this inferiority complex that ends up being a chip on our shoulder. But, you know, we haven't done anything. And in the case of the lions, we haven't done anything. So we've done a lot so far. But what this would do for us is, I mean mean just people from this part of the country To be able to walk around and go no no no I'm from Detroit. I'm from Detroit and it's not a negative thing It's not something to be considered inferior by the coasts so that's always been in the air and this is a You know one way that at least people in this corner of the country can

Put an end to that at least people in this corner of the country can put an end of that, at least temporarily. That's pretty interesting. The weight that you're putting on that, right? That to be from Detroit, to be from Detroit is something negative unless you win two more football games. Well, I mean, just ask anybody who's, you know, uh, thinks of Detroit and all of that, it's always been less Motown and all of that and the motor city and all of that. It's always been less Motown and all of that and the Motor City and all of that, but it's still it's not New York. It's not LA and

it's certainly not Dallas. You know, so this it's it this is a this is a statement. This is this team is making a statement about more than just football. Yep. Jeff, what was your initial reaction when the team signed Dan Campbell to be their head coach? Well, we had been through a few of them, but you don't know, you hope, you know? And he comes into it and he's full of passion and he's played the game. You at least going in know that he's gonna be a player's coach.

He's gonna be somebody who knows what they're growing through at every moment of the, from training cramp to the end of the season. He knows. And sometimes that's really a good thing. And with Dan, you kind of hoped it would be in it. Turns out it has been because these guys will, you know, run through a wall for this guy. Who have you fallen in love with?

On the team, Dan Campbell, the players. Thanks for clarifying that. Well, it's hard. It's hard to, you know, certainly golf story is a great story. It's hard to, it's hard to, you know, certainly golf story is a great story. I tell you what, I've fallen in love with the offensive line. You know, we, you know, Stafford left town because he never had any time. He'd get back there and plant and he's getting hit.

And I'm in love with that offensive line because when they're all on the field together, it's Mount Rushmore. It's really hard to get through those guys. So, you know, those would be the guys I've fallen in love with. Who have you fallen in love with who's not on the team? Anyone? Yeah, my wife. Exactly.

For years, yeah. Thank you, guys. Yeah, thanks. For me, it's Abby. Yeah, thanks, For me, it's Abby. Yeah, thanks. We appreciate it. You are working on season two of American Rust.

What is it that you need or want the audience to know about what you're trying to do there? Because at this point, Jeff Daniels, I'm imagining, is only taking projects that are inspirations and creatively invigorating to him. Well, I appreciate that. Yeah, I'm looking for challenge. I'm looking for things where I can risk failure, things I haven't done. And American Rust is one of those. I had never done one of those kind of true crime kind of darker, you know, storylines.

And it's set in Pittsburgh. And it's, I really like the writing in it. Adam Rapp and Danny Foderman and his mother people really, you know, did a really great job of setting it up in season one and then season two, it really starts to, you know, get even darker. So it was a lot of fun to do. I know that. Do you keep up with Jim Carrey because he's one of the most fascinating entertainers I've ever seen and what he's doing with this part of his career is also interesting to me. I'm curious of your vantage point of who he is as an artist.

Jim's a friend and still is and I communicate with him occasionally. You know, we keep in touch and uh... he's you know besides being a comedic genius and that's who you're sitting next to when you're here in dumb and dumber you're sitting with someone who is those the three jokes ahead of you or when he starts to be easy there's such a precision to what jim does as a comedian or as a comic actor

or when he's just doing comedy, he's very serious about the execution of it. And it was a pleasure to kind of bounce off him because that, that was all I did in Dumb and Dumber was react to Lloyd, Harry reacts to Lloyd. When we're going into a room Lloyd's gonna go in first, you know? And so I'm trailing him like a poppy on a leash. And that was fun because you're bouncing off somebody who's just giving you so much. Now, you know what he is? He's an artist. You said it. And I think at the end of the day we all hope for that, that we have a body of work that isn't just one thing. And Jim is certainly proving that with his artwork that he's doing. And, you know, he's really good. He's really good. And he takes it very

seriously, as seriously as he did his work as an actor. How often do you use the word genius talking about your contemporaries? Because I believe you're describing him accurately and you've worked with a few. I think Sorkin is in that realm, but how many people would you assign that designation to? Aaron's another one. They have this kind of savant thing going on where they go and they do what they're going to do and then something in them takes over and takes it further. And they wait for that to happen. I think Aaron does that as a writer. He gets in the room, shuts the door and waits for the magic.

And with Aaron it comes. Jim's the same way. It's an overused term and I don't use it very often. And it's more, for me, it's more of a... It takes several decades to earn a moniker like that. And so longevity has to be a consistency of a body of work has to be there for anybody to consider consider anybody, that kind of thing. We're real quick to say how awesome somebody is or what a genius somebody is, and you know, they're 29.

All right, pop quiz. Airport, gunman with one hostage. He's using her for cover. You left out hot guys. He's almost to a plane. You're 100 feet away. What do you do? What do you do?

Shoot the hostage You talk about these geniuses are you ever in? You seem like a very confident actor. You've done an amazing amount of experienced work. Are you ever intimidated when across from somebody? There were decades where that was certainly, you know, something that you had to get over. Working with Meryl Streep, you know, meeting DeNiro. He came to, I did to kill a mockingbird on Broadway and there's Robert DeNiro walking in the dressing room. It's just, yeah, you pinch yourself.

If you're working with somebody like that, then you over-prepare. It's not unlike football. It's not unlike being an athlete. It's all about the preparation. And in order to get over whether it's nervousness or stage fright or I'm not good enough or insecurity or just can you rise up, you know, the two minute drive at the end of the game, can you do it? The 41 yard field goal. Can you hit it with a minute to go? It's, it's the moment. It's why L way was so incredible. You give him the ball and he

drives it. Patrick Mahon, same way. I mean, that's, can you rise up to the moment and you want to be one of those guys. And for me, whether it's, they put a camera and it's you and Meryl Streep orim carrey and we're gonna do comedy you better be ready and if you're ready then the intimidation goes away because now it's in my world is playing tennis it's back and forth with somebody who's really good and you're able to return serve

season two of american rust is coming soon to Amazon Free Vee and a man in full will be on Netflix before long at the risk of being a little a little bit like Stu Gotz if the Lions win you will come on with us again and we will talk about it is there any possibility of that because I would like to talk to you more and there was not enough time there would be a possibility of that yes okay so let's see we will we'll put that away and I look forward to hopefully talking to Jeff Daniels because they have upset the San Francisco 49ers in the single greatest moment He doesn't want to hear that right now. You're getting ahead of yourself in Detroit Lions football history He will be coming on with us if they produce the single greatest feeling in the history of Jeff Daniels Detroit Lions career

It seems like a small price to pay. You said it, I didn't. Yeah. All right. Thank you, sir. We appreciate it. Thank you for the time. Thanks guys.

Don Lebatard. The Clevelander hotel sits on a famous strip of land and it's a party palace. There are sometimes these conventions that roll through here that are terrifying. A couple of weeks ago was the Bitcoin people still gots they call the the event seventy thousand tons of metal it's more than that It's a lot of metal man. I mean listen to me Roy. I love Miami that music has made me consider moving You're talking about more of like... BRO! BRO! BRO! BRO! BRO! BRO! BRO! D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D We've got a Stanley Cup update worth getting to that we'll do so in a moment with Stugatz.

But one of the things from football I enjoyed so much this weekend, because a lot of people were arguing at the end of the Tampa Detroit game that Tampa's got to call its last time out, got to make Detroit kick a field goal, because all of you have seen so many games end with a field goal being blocked and returned for a touchdown in those situations. The Tampa Bay wasted a time out. But one of the other conversations that has led to Greg Olson and Mike Willbond arguing and Mina's explaining basic math. Are you referencing the end of that Tampa Detroit Lions game, Dan?

I am. A lot of math being done, arguing being done. That was a far-racing moment, the end of that game, wasn't it? That explains it. Yes it was. Guys, did you know that your heart attack risk can more than double when your home team plays? Learn more and assess your heart risk factors at CheckYourHeartRisk.com. Brought to you by Bayer Aspirin, the official sponsor of Fans Hearts.

Detroit fans got elevated. Their 99-year-old fan got elevated because at the end of the game, they were trusting Dan Campbell with math. They were trusting... You know, I was noticing that at the end of the game and I think it's playing well on social media, Dan, about how Todd Bowles could have forced a long field goal there. I felt what was happening there was very clearly just a silent agreement between two head coaches. Like I can... You're snapping the ball early because you know I'm not gonna take this time out because they only... This only exists on the internet because Detroit was snapping the ball early.

And I think there might have been, and I don't know if the head coach has been asked about this, a little like handshake across the sideline, little gamesmanship. Little nod. We don't have to play this out like we know how it ends. We're all good. Have you also found, that's interesting. I hadn't heard that. Have you also found interesting or as I have, Stu gots, your anti-analytics. Greg Cody's not here today. Hopefully you'll be feeling better. Maybe come around tomorrow. But your anti-analytics and will bond for many years now on television has been spouting. I like to be math ignorant. You guys need to stop it.

I trust my gut. I know what I know. Football is football. And Tampa went for a two-point conversion. Again, Mina has explained the math on this. The math is pretty self-explanatory. Teams have been doing this all year in these situations when they're down two touchdowns and they score, you go for two because just the math says that's what you do, that's the greatest of the probabilities.

But a lot of people are flipping out because they want their football the way that it's been. They don't want change that comes with math and they're saying trust your coach and his gut. Yeah, I understand that because this is very new and the way that it's become so accepted has probably put people like Mike Wilbont off because this is a very quick sudden seed change where the rule is if you're down 14 you go for two. The thought behind it is and a lot of people Mike will bond included like to make an extra point a hundred percent probability

It's never been that and today's the NFL it certainly isn't that so you're just playing a numbers game if it 52% chance Success rate and that can vary from team to team Certainly varies if you decide to throw a goal line fade like Tampa decided to do. You realize that you have two chances at getting this 14 point total. And if you get the two point conversion on the first one, then you just kick the extra point

and now you've gone from a game tied scenario to you leading this game. So the math is super simple on this, but people hate math. They just hate math. Well, no, I think people are fine with math, but you can't just trust the math every single time. Like, Dan, if you're a coach,

if you've coached at any level, you know, like occasionally, hey, there has to be a feel for the game, what does my team need? Is this the wrong time to do this? What should I do? And occasionally, you have to go away from the numbers and trust your gut as it goes.

Fair enough, Stu-Gots. But in this case, these are simple probabilities. Like, you can object to the play call and that they failed to get the two-point conversion because it was a shitty play call. But what they're doing there is just playing the probabilities of mathematicians have done the very simple math and your chances are better when you're down 14 in this situation going for the two-point conversion first Fine you disagree with it. You don't like math you end up sounding like Michael will bond does here stubborn and strident about I know what I know You failed I get to win the argument because you failed the two-point conversion attempt that left him eight down Don't stop you with the two-point converges and the analytics say go for it. Do the analytics say go for it no

matter who's going for it? So if you and I were on the field, the analytics say go for it. It's the stupidest, laziest, lamest thing I've ever heard for reasoning in competition. And I hate when announcers just buy it without questioning it. The analytics say go for it. There is an element of shouting at clouds on this one. And Greg Olson, we can agree, Sturgats, that Greg Olson is very smart about how he's analyzing football. Correct?

Yep. He's excellent. And people would agree that Greg Olson, the way he's breaking down games, he has become a breakout broadcasting star, at least in part, because he educates in small windows. So Greg Olsen comes after Will Bond with this. This is just further proof how vital it is that announcers continue to educate the viewers on the current approach to NFL football. It isn't announcers being lazy. It's the way the game is being played and it's here to stay.

The game evolves. Not sure why people push back. This is not an example though where I think I would kind of go against the numbers, because even not making that two point conversion, as Mike pointed out, bucks still down eight, still have a chance if they stop the Lions, come back, get six, and then follow it up with a two point conversion. It's when coaches feel the need to go for it on fourth down every single time,

and jeopardize their team's chances of winning a game. Again, those two guts, and I would just say this blankedly. What are you making that sound? Well, just in watching that game, there's plenty of plays that really impacted win probability. But I think back to a mishap opportunity for Tampa when they had a fourth and one inside their own 40 and Todd Bowles, who's, you know, defense first, as the announcer said, Todd Bowles knows how he wants to play this football game

and how he wants it to play out. I kind of look at that decision to not go for it as something that hugely impacted the Bucks win. While playing against Dan Campbell, who does that more recklessly than anybody? He believes in the idea, I have confidence in my offense, I have confidence in my team, fourth and down, I'm not scared of fourth down. I'm not scared of fourth down conversion in that game that helps salt the game away. So I saw two coaches and granted

these happen. It's not a fully good faith argument because one happened still in the first half, but I saw two coaches approach that decision differently and the one that was more aggressive about it ended up winning that game. How'd it go for Brandon Staley? Like, because he went for it a lot and his team questioned him a lot. Yeah, he also made some terrible decisions to not take a tie when he was a head coach that caused his team a playoff spot. So, it wasn't just numbers with him, they were just overall people not developing. You can't boil everything down to a single decision. I think we're looking at this and breaking this down the wrong way, because if you're going with something

that has a 60% success rate, then you're really not being brave. And the guts, if you're Dan Campbell, is to really punt on it with fourth and one, where you only have 40% success rate. I hadn't looked at it that way. You're absolutely right. You're making the brave choice there. When you're following the numbers, you're really not

being that... you're not a maverick. You're kind of a coward. You're choosing the more difficult path by ignoring math and dumbly and bravely going where other men don't go because the copycat mathematicians are now just following each other. Kirk Ferrantz goes there. All right, slow down. Dan Campbell is unafraid of your team, he's unafraid of fourth down, he's unafraid of anything. I'd argue he's afraid. It is amazing to see how scared football fans are of math.