The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz - Hour 2: The George Soros of Journalism (feat. his beneficiary, Pablo Torre)

Episode Date: November 20, 2025

"I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm very, I I I I I I..." Tony's out at loanDepot park for Give Miami Day and to deliver his Tony's Top 5, and he avoids being debacled. Then, the ever-humble Pablo Torre is here to share details of his new episode of Pablo Torre Finds Out, diving into the story of Riley Gaines and her ascension through the political landscape via anti-Trans rhetoric. He explains where the money behind her comes from and why her former swim coach's story leads to some hypocrisy in her messaging. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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The tequila. That invented tequila. Broximo.com. Please drink responsibly. Quervo. This is the Dan Levator show with the Stucats podcast. Zaz had to rush out of here. He's got a flight to catch as part of his college football coverage this weekend.

You got to watch some movies on that flight. And I will tell you as he leaves, he's going to come back with stories because I don't believe. I don't believe he owns clothing for Madison, Wisconsin this time of year. Oh, no. I don't believe that he knows what he's headed toward. What's the temperature right now in Madison? Have we gotten to the terrible days of it just feels like nothing but icy cold in your bones, or are we not there yet? Because he didn't tell us he was going to Madison. I have also in front of me an assortment of gifts that we are not using to celebrate what is supposed to be today before Thanksgiving. during the holidays, a time of giving. Illinois, Wisconsin, really something they're sending them to?

44 degrees out there. That's actually pleasant. That's not so bad? Okay. For Wisconsin? In the bad years yet, or the bad months yet, or the bad weeks. Give Miami Day.org is where you go. You've got till midnight tonight.

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Tony is out at Lone Depot Park. They're going to kick him out of there in a second. They don't want him there anymore, no matter how charitable he is. So let's get to Tony's top five from Lone Depot. Put the information, please, on the screen rolling around and near Tony. So people continue to give during what is a one-day telethon on behalf of giving to Miami. And let me remind people, Tony's Top Five is presented by Smyranoff, the official vodka sponsor of the National Football League.

Smyranoff, please drink responsibly. The Smyranoff Company, New York, New York, Vaca, 40% alcohol by volume. Let's get going. And great to be with you from Lone Depot Park. Yes, sir. We are actually $17 million donated right now. I don't know if it's over my shoulder right there, $17.2 million donated. Again, over 1,400 organizations, over 70,000 donations and 38,000 different donors.

So a very cool situation. We just had an entire program talking about all the beautiful things that people are donating to, all the causes that are incredible from foster care to people with disabilities playing music and stuff. It's a very touching scene, and I will be giving you my top five right now. No OLLIs, because obviously we're late on in the week. We've talked everything there is to talk about regarding the NFL. But a couple of things here. We'll start off with number five.

Dano, that Davis Mills throw. I know you know the throw I'm talking about. That was a special throw, Dan. I mean, every once in a while he's going to make a special throw, the Texans shouldn't be saying no way to trading Davis Mill. How many games did they want since he's been the starting quarterback? all of them seems to be doing just fine with that pressure up the middle down yep all right number four keep an eye on the 49ers

Brock Purdy looks solid against a good Arizona defense that NFC West is a you know what is a mother and I think that Brock Purdy and the 49ers can sneak into a little something something if they start getting healthy on the defense not again we're not going to do this again with the 49ers are we're going to do this again with the 49ers Fred Warner's too much. Mosa and Fred Warner. If he does that, Kyle Shanahan.

Put that on the pool. Put it on the poll at Levitart show, Juju. Kyle Shanahan, if he does that. Woo! Number three, Jags versus Chargers. We don't know if either team is good. We don't know if either team is bad on a literally

week-to-week basis. The Chargers some days are good. The charges, some days may be good, some days may be shit. And also the Jags. You beat the Chiefs, you beat the Chargers and then you lose to, like, whoever they've lost to, the Texans, or whoever, just whatever abysmal loss they've had.

Like, they're so weird. They're either good, they're bad, they're not good, they're not. You were just talking up Davis Mills, and now the Texans is a bad loss? Well, but they lost them with the, with CJ Strata quarterback. Oh, we're not doing that now. Well, really? We're going to do that now.

You know, wait a minute. Their starter? This is what we're going to do to C.J. Stroud now. 17 million, Dano. 17.284 million. What an incredible donation here at Give Miami Day. Incredible. Please donate if you're listening to this.

All right. Number two. Kneeling with almost three minutes left in the Cowboys Raiders was sickening. There's no room for that in our sport. Zazzle likes to talk about no punching in our sport. How about no kneeling with two and a half minutes left in the game? How about that? How about you go punching?

it in and score a touchdown who cares what the score is how about that sickening no and number one probably the biggest news of the entire weekend the chiefs and more so the shipping container got debacleed debacleed a debacleing happened dan oh debacleed okay we got debacleled thank you that's number one the chiefs in the shipping container got absolutely debacle I'm sorry. You guys lost more than $5,000 on a Nick Wright bet. Tony, thank you for the work that you did out there. Get out of there. It is loud. It is loud. I don't believe that we celebrated with enough of the goodies that they sent us. But please continue to give throughout the entirety of the day until midnight tonight.

I have a couple of things, Eagles and Chiefs related, because I've seen the stat floating around. The Chief's offense this year scores more per drive than any of the offenses before it. Their own five in close games, all of a sudden they go from how we talked about them last year when they were 11 and 0 in one-score games to they know how to win their clutch. Mahomes is the best. This year, they're better offensively per drive scoring, but they lose the one-score games, and now they play at home against the Colts. and now they're in danger of being five and six and having the same record,

same number of wins of the dolphins, a worse record than the Carolina Panthers. Meanwhile, the Eagles have this funny problem. When we talk a mean about how much basketball has changed, football changing in this regard is funny. It's a funny thing to watch. Jalen Hertz is said to be unpopular with his teammates, primarily his offensive teammates because they play a conservative, constipated style of football that wins obviously in a way that is more than any other team in the sport.

But the emphasis is, Jalen, we always win when we win the turnover battle. So all that matters from the new age quarterback on a champion is don't turn the ball over, don't throw into tight windows and zone, don't do all the things that people are doing in football. football all over the sport. And now, what happens? His wide receivers hate him. Because they'd like to make some money and be good at offense, because they can be, because they're great.

What a funny thing to have happen in that risk-averse sport where the greatest champion that wins all the time, the receivers are really getting mad at their quarterback. Throw into a tight window. No. No. I'm going to tuck the ball because we win every time I don't turn the ball over. Yes. It's a funny controversy to have in the middle of a team that's won 24 of 27 games.

But Dan, that's the beauty of professional sports, right? professional team sports is it's the balance of your individual goals within the greater agenda of winning that's what draymond green was talking about two weeks ago whatever it was like how do how do i make myself look good enough to get paid but also do what the team needs to get wins i'd like to bring in uh pablo tori here because the work the work that he's doing with a team of journalists uh requires uh it's just not a lot of work effort and caring he doing a lot of work that other people are not doing, even on well-traversed ground where it's difficult to do new work. So you're attacking something here that is conversationally. It

looks, based on your reporting and collaboration you're doing with Mother Jones magazine, that Riley Gaines with your podcast, it's being shown how it is that she was used and maneuvered, how all of this was maneuvered politically. And so tell us, Pablo, what it is that you're reporting with Mother Jones here so people can get caught up on whatever it is you think you know about this. There's some fact-based reporting here that will show you that there's been what looks like a great deal of maneuvering and manipulation strictly for a very easy, profitable grift. Yeah. There's a segue here. somewhere between Tony's top five and Riley Gaines, the most famous fifth place finisher.

I think college sports history, but I am not here to talk about such jokes. The thing that this story is about, though, is the number one politically impactful sports story in America. And it's Riley Gaines, who is this former University of Kentucky Swimmer, who has become, over time, someone who has become the face of what it means to win win elections in America in 2025, just like hammering this issue, keep predators out of women's sports, predators, meaning trans people, according to her and the MAGA movement, as well as the face and the voice of people who have been victimized by such athletes. And so what we did with Mother Jones in collaboration with them in the Center for Investigative Reporting was

actually profile Riley Gaines, who is this incredibly important person in politics and now in sports, been a person who tied for fifth with Leah Thomas, the trans swimmer at the NCAA championships now four years ago. And the thing we were studying was like, when did this all escalate to the point where not only can you make money off of the stand, but you're actually somebody who has a leadership center named after her. You're actually somebody who's appearing dozens upon dozens upon dozens upon dozens of times on Fox News is praised by name in person by President Trump at the White House as they're banning trans athletes and in the process declaring victory as they are the people who are arguing this is an 80-20 issue the 20% of you woke

libs are getting it wrong we're winning this 80% of the time and so when you go through this you realize that this was a manufactured story that Riley Gaines did not always believe this that when you talk to her teammates and we did they tell you she wasn't anti-trans and college. She was not pro-Trump in college. She is somebody who over time got paid to develop an opinion into a weapon. And she got paid to develop her experience of tying for fifth place at the NCAA swimming championships into a professional victimhood that not only got exaggerated in terms of the rhetoric around it, but truly in terms of the implications for what it is to be a trans person. as in it became, I was my colleagues, my friends, fellow female athletes, were abused,

preyed upon, victimized by these quote-unquote men in sports. And there's a lot in that. But the things that I found all indicate, oh, wait a minute. There was a story of victimization in college involving Riley Gaines' teammates, but it wasn't the one that Leah Thomas had allegedly perpetrated. It was something deeper and darker that Riley Gaines has talked about literally once on Twitter

while she makes these dozens of appearances all across the country talking about the real problem is over there. She doesn't want to talk about this specific thing, which is, I think, the big part of the story that we reported. Hey, friends, Jeremy here. The NBA on Prime is back tomorrow

with another great Emirates NBA Cup doubleheader. The night starts with Pascal Seaccombe and the Indiana Pacers meeting Donovan Mitchell and the Cleveland Cavaliers. A matchup that if Tyrese Halliburton was healthy probably would have been a potential Easter conference finals preview. Instead, you got Donovan Mitchell

who's averaged at about 30 a game and the Pacers who are struggling, but those games on Prime are always intense. And then it's down to Texas as Nikola Yokich and the Denver Nuggets, as Big Honey plays some of the best basketball of his career, which is certainly saying something, get their first look at Kevin Durant

and the new look, Houston Rockets. If you're not a prime member, that's not a problem. Just sign up for a 30-day free trial to get started today. Pacers, Cavs, Nuggets, and Rockets. Coverage starts tomorrow at 6.30 p.m. Eastern, only on Prime. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com slash Amazon Prime for details. Folks, the leaves are turning. The weather's getting a little chillier. That means a football game is more important. That means football time. Should be Miller time. Game day.

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And here's the kicker. It's just 96 calories, 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces, the original light beer since 1975 and still hitting different five decades later. So whatever your game day looks like, Remember, Miller Time is always a good time. Miller Lite, great taste, 96 calories.

Go to Miller Lite.com slash Dan to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. It's Miller Time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. Don Lebertard. Pablo leads all of podcasting in reading while smiling. If you listen to ESPN Daily, he sounds like he's having

the time of his life. Stugats. Coming up next, I'm going to tell you the Savannah bananas are changing face. How do you know I'm laughing? How do you know I'm smiling?

That's how I find my vocal range. Sometimes I just say Savannah bananas. Savannah bananas. This is the Dan Levitar show with the Stugats. Pablo, just a person I wanted to speak with. Team A.

Oh, come on. You can't keep doing this. You can't do this. Team A and Team B played a football game. You can't do this every time, Mike, with this. All right, all right. So just based on the fact that Donald Trump credited Raleigh Gaines for his reelection, do you believe that if Raleigham beat

Leah Thomas by a millisecond that Donald Trump is reelected as President of the United States for a second time? I had not phrased it in my head until Roy just put it that way. We may be living in a different America. That is how insanely important this issue and resonant this issue seems to be.

And the whole thing, Roy, why that's a good exercise here is not just because what a crazy sliding door is possibility. It's that there is now this entire population of people who claim to really care about women's sports and their lens to see women's sports through is through the trans issue, right? These guys who otherwise could not, who actually actively insulted women's basketball over the years, the WMBA, women's sports in general, who are all making fun of it, are now rebranded as the foremost protectors of it because it is politically useful and because there is the easiest target in America, which is to say the most downtrodden, like attempting suicide at a rate of one in three kind of downtrodden population, which is the trans person in America.

And so the trans athlete, the reason why there's this other story that I've been trying to tell people is because, and this is sort of spoiling the episode, so please go and listen to it in the way the chef intended. But the real thing you have to understand is that the University of Kentucky, one of Riley Gaines' best friends, as she calls him in her book, somebody who she's called a really good coach over the year, someone she's been very close to, is the head coach of the UK women's swimming team, the former head coach now, a guy named Lars Jorgensen. And coach Lars himself was accused of rape by multiple teammates

on that same UK swim team. that Riley Gaines comes from. And that premise of why do you not know the story of an actual male predator inside of the locker rooms that Riley Gaines and Donald Trump are trying to defend, right? The sanctity of the safety of the protection of these women. Why does no one know about that story? Why does Riley Gaines literally, except for one tweet,

never even acknowledged that it happened? It speaks to the entire, not just like hypocrisy, but the mutant version of how the safety of women is being used against the interests of women. And it's not just like what aboutism. It's literally the question of we are always trying to figure out who gets to get the protection and the attention of Americans at a time when that is scarce and very competitive. And what Riley Gaines is telling you is look over at the time that I tie it for fifth place. at the NCAA swimming championships, that is like sexual assault. Remember when she went back and forth, the Simone Biles, right?

Simone Biles, victim, actual victim of Larry Nassar, basically made those things equivalent. She herself has experienced this thing. And so I'll just quote, one of Riley's teammates, and forgive me for going on about this, because I just need to sort of put this in full context, what one of Riley gains his teammates told us, Trinity Ward, on tape, with her own face, which is incredibly brave to do, is all the time she goes out and people ask her, because she tells and I swam for University of Kentucky, oh, do you know Riley Gaines? And she asks them in response, do you know about Lars Jorgensen?

And what Kennedy Ward said to us is, it's, and this is me paraphrasing, it's really hard for me to care about Riley Gaines tying for fifth place when our head coach was accused of raping our teammates. And like, that is not abstract. That is the reality of the locker room that has become this social experiment for American politics to fight it out over, and somehow the biggest story about the predation of our actual young women in sports gets entirely ignored until you get a former teammate like this speaking out about it. As I have mentioned a number of times now, Pablo Tori finds out it's very

difficult work to do. It's a special collaboration with Mother Jones magazine. It requires a great deal of vetting, a great deal of lawyering. All of this work is mostly work that other people are not willing to do. So I salute you for doing it. But when you think of the most important things that you're trying to do with this particular episode and the storytelling, I'm assuming from what it is that you're saying, that the macro here, that you're, for all of the revelations, what they are, the disgust that one must have at the idea. of politics being used this way when you have to ask the largest question of who are we protecting here if you're going to allow a rapist to roam the locker room while allegedly right no

yes thank you for that but when when in front of you the most famous story involving riley gains doesn't have anything to do with protecting women it's crazy man and there is like a dark comedy in this? Like, the thing you think you should be paying attention to is over here. The actual crisis in women's sports, which any female athlete can tell you, which largely involves, by the way, men in positions of power,

like the irony, Dan, the sheer irony, right? And the reason I have to say alleges because all of this, of course, is very carefully, legally vetted. And I want to be very careful about all of this. But the question of, what about men in female locker rooms in college? It's like they already

exist. They're called the coaches. And they are Larry Nassar. They are allegedly Lars Jorgensen. They are the people who have the power who are actually men. Like, we're not disagreeing that there are men who prey upon women, young women in sports. The question is, which ones allegedly should you care about? And so what's crazy also is that over time, like Riley Gaines has given so many interviews to various podcasts, conservative outlets, TV networks over time that you see the rhetoric. Dan. You see it evolved to be weaponized. It didn't start off as trans inclusion is the same as sexual

assault. It is the same as welcoming predators into female locker rooms. It didn't start off like that. But you see over time how they work. And we play the clips. Year to year, month to month, you see the rhetoric change to become more and more criminal and violent in the nature of its allegations. And it becomes something that many people, many parents, again, like, again, as the father of a daughter, right? I hear from people now in my mentions who are like, how dare you betray your to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Whatever. The point is, if you care about girls and women in sports, there are issues to care about. It's just that we're being manipulated through money, by the way, that originates in a key form here. And you alluded

to this before, Dan, and I've only gotten to this now, from the owners of the Orlando Magic, the DeVos family has put six figures behind Riley Gaines as this figure. Like, they're funding her work, her activism, which gets it all backwards. To the profit, again, I ask everybody to think of who? Who profits from this? I would dare say that it's not actually the women and girls that Donald Trump has as these props as he's signing executive orders to ban trans athletes from women's sports. Don Lebertard.

Come with the Frog here, live from Meta Lock Media Studios here in Miami. Stugats. The Germans are advancing on France in World War II. This is the Dan Lebatar show with the Stoogads. Pablo, I found it fascinating the way that you guys laid everything out in terms of how this grift began and how Riley seemingly learned at each stop on the radio or podcast from Clay Travis to. then Charlie Kirk and beyond how to phrase all of this and turn it into a bigger boogeyman. But what you really eventually lay out is how this becomes an ability to provide the framework

to keep people not just out of sports. What is sort of the most dangerous precedent that's being set here and where can it continue to sort of exclude trans people, not just from sports, but from society? Yeah, I think it's important to realize that sports is like this gateway drug for lots of cultural issues. It's also the legal framework via these Supreme Court cases working their way through the system now to actually strip the rights from trans people to be just included or allowed in these spaces. And I think there is an enormous sort of paradox of like how can this problem, which is vanishingly small in real life, right? So again, the numbers per the president of the NCAA is that they're at last check were fewer than 10. varsity d1 level trans athletes right so that's less than 0.02% that's the moral panic that swings

elections that these legislations these these bills these legislative efforts that are spreading across american state houses where they can't find the trans athletes to justify the actual legislation and find the people the offenders to like parade in front of courthouses none of that matters because the rhetoric has been so persuasive around how dangerous they are, how predatory they are. And so sports being the place where you can officially ban them from public, or at very least, from sports spaces, leads to then, what about in the rest of American life? And it's nuts, man. It's all, like, you can have a debate, a rightful debate about scientific advantage, right? What advantage did Leah Thomas have physiologically, even after testosterone suppression therapy?

We've done episodes about that. This is not an episode about whether an athlete who went through male puberty is better in the abstract than a female athlete who didn't go through male puberty. That is not the debate. The debate is what are people spending their money on that they don't want you to realize that will fundamentally strip the rights of the most actually victimized population of people in America? to benefit an administration that's using it to just gain more power and enrich themselves. Like, that's the real mind of all of it, is that they are winning. They're actually winning. And they're running the same play over and over and over again, like an NFL team that's just running the ball.

50 times in a row. Or like the SEC when it comes to the college football playoff. What is the Utah Uts done to deserve the number 12 ranking? Just a week, Pablo, the end of this, a week after they named the AD to live. I'm sorry to do this to you, Mike. Minor penalty, two minutes for verbal diarrhea. I'm too sorry. The thing that I have failed to get to with Pablo is him and his team getting nominated.

one of the 10 best podcast episodes, according to Apple of the year. The only one in the sports category, because you can't count Travis and Jason interviewing a relative, you know, a relative about, you can't, no, we're not doing that. We're not doing Taylor Swift gets to be in the sports category. Be respectful. What? Be respectful.

My good friends, the Kelse brothers. The Kelse brothers, I mean, but that doesn't put that in the sports category. That was an interview with Taylor Swift. The only thing in sports. it was deemed worthy of best episode in podcasting over the last year was Pablo Torre. But before we get to that, can you explain to me the new reporting that you did and Mother Jones did on where the money was coming from on the Orlando Magic and this very rich family that does things like this easily with money that's easy for it to spend?

Yeah, Betsy DeVos, man. Like she is, uh, the family, the DeVos family is crazy, right? There's Eric Prince, the guy behind Blackwater, which is like the paramilitary private defense contractor. He's like in the picture. He's in the family tree. But she herself is someone who is not merely like very intertwined, I would say, with the Trump administration. She is also her family is alongside Rich DeVos. Yeah, they own the Orlando Magic.

And I think if people cared more about the magic, maybe Kevin Clark is like the only person I know who even vaguely cares about the Orlando magic. Maybe that would be a thing people really thought about more, but it's coming from NBA owners. And look, I'm not even asking anybody to pick aside on like the whole, like, again, should trans athletes be allowed to play at women's sports thing? I just think it's fascinating that there has been in the league, in the NBA, this entire time, this multi-billionaire family that is actively using its money and laundering its own image using like, what's the Orlando Magic mascot called? What's his name? Stuff. Stuff. Stuff the Magic Dragon.

They are using Stuff the Magic Dragon as this political beard behind which they're like puppeteering, I think, a corruption of certainly women's sports, but also politics itself. It's some pretty bad stuff. You did that on purpose? That's all I had at the end. I'm trying to just sprinkle in stuff because I know your audience is like mad at me for like getting the vegetables and all up and the stuff. He's promoting his episode. He comes on here, and I should have kept it to five minutes, and instead we talked to 20 minutes.

What's the chat like on YouTube right now? Are they happy with me? No, it's not live. We know better than to put you on live. Look, you can imagine, Matt, you, I don't need to explain to you how it is that you are presently being blamed for ruining everything that we do around here, with your journalism, with your mother Jonesing. But you did, this is how you become a top 10 episode for Apple, and I will tell you, I don't know if you know this. this or not. Amin has been taking credit for all of the success of that episode, and Amin believes for all your journalistic team and everything you're doing, it wasn't until

you saddled up on Amin and David Samson that you actually brought home something that's a worthy trophy, because you were nominated for whatever all that shit was you were doing on the West Coast, but here you actually got a trophy. To be fair, Dan, to be fair, I'd laid the groundwork for quite a while before. I did the haunted house. I did the chicken misses from John is. Yeah, chicken eligible free throws. He's been working you. Pablo has been

working you. But this Quile Leonard's story, this is the pinnacle of our journalistic integrity. And I've won't, Pablo, if I may speak for you, we're humbled by this award and by this recognition by not only Apple podcast.

I never said you can speak for me just for the record. Whatever comes out of it means mouth next is not something that I actually approve. Are you not humbled? Oh, Pablo, will you not humble yourself? I'm very, I would say that it's almost impossible to be humble if you say I'm humble, but... Well, I mean, give it a try. He's just to say, I'm humbled. I'm humbled by the recognition.

Say it. I am humbled. Don't say it like that. Why am I listening to you? Why am I listening to a me? Why are you saying it like a kid who's told to say, I'm sorry for breaking your stupid vase? He doesn't want to say he's been humbled by anything. Because he's not.

He's not humbled. He's not humbled. You know what I've been, I've been emboldened. I have been emboldened, I mean, I'm emboldened, and the thing that's happening as we speak right now is that a lot of people are mad at me on the internet, and I don't think humility is going to get me anywhere. I've been told that in 2026, I need to somehow be even less humble, so I'm going to try and do that, actually. It's funny, I went to a game recently, and I had a team representative say, that Pablo, he's good. arrogant son of a oh but you can you imagine what's

who was it who said it I mean look if you guys want to talk about the process Pablo Torre's career started with trying to dissect what darrell morey was trying to reinvent in Philadelphia this is where damn hinky but all looks same you know that's not where it started his career started with the

money thing how the guys all blew their money right wasn't that your big first story some people have alleged that it started there Billy Corbin would would maybe agree I don't want to get into a beef I love Bailey. What am I doing? Okay. Regardless, his career, what's happened over the last year of Pablo, if you believe that some of the things that he has won, that any of the things that he's added to his resume

are humble, are humble? You're not paying attention to what he wants as a destination. He wants to be able to show the entirety of the internet. My facts are so strong. I'm impenetrable and he's done so. And now he's come to this story because this one's hard to do. Like this, what happened? You know what's happening in me and actually is that, and I do want to credit to me for being a leg of the tripod. What is happening in my mentions actually is that Dan is turning into the George Soros of journalism.

People are saying, who is funding Pablo Torre finds out? Who's the dark money source? And I'm like, you can watch him on YouTube every day. He's sitting in that chair over there, sweating about how much money was spending. Worried about the billionaires coming out. That's actually what's happening. I mean, when you get one of these facts wrong. Pablo, how did you feel about Jordan hitting you with a your welcome?

I just want her to come on the show. Can we get that? I mean, can you be my more charming proxy and convince Jordan Hudson to come on the show? That's how you can add value to the enterprise here because that's where this whole thing is going on. He's already added value. Come on. I'm saying more value. More values.

That's right. That's right. Added value. What do I do? How do I do? Do you just DM these people? How do you do it? Well, I don't know how you do it.

I'm saying how does someone who wants to be successful. I think we got to assign a meme to like an adult co-ed cheerleading contest and you have to cover it and you have to embed. I think it means to actually join an adult co-ed cheerleading team and then a friend Jordan Hudson. Ask him about the quality loss. No, stop. Get away. We're not talking about this anymore. We're headed on.

See you later, Pablo. Good seeing you. Good talking to you and keep up the good work. Pablo Tori finds out, I will tell you that... Thank you for the money and for saving journalism, Dan. Couldn't do without you. Not a joke. You're welcome.

This... I know I keep saying that the work that he's doing is difficult to do. But if anyone has been sort of built for these fights, because he's going to try and win him with facts. He's not getting more humble, though. He's out of control. His head, like, you don't understand what getting the universal applause

of what used to be the blue check marks. For Pablo, great. You're better at journalism than anybody. Like, there's no greater applause you can give Pablo. Called him an arrogant, son of a bitch. But humble isn't going to be one of the things. He's winning all the awards. Like, he's not going to get more humbled from here.

He would have to be humbled by making a mistake, by tripping and getting something wrong. I don't think he really cares about the awards. I think he cares that he's getting stories that nobody else is getting, though, and that they're getting traction. Well, they get traction because it's hard. Look, he's doing the hardest thing, the hardest way.

Be at the trough where everyone else is and do the hardest things better than anyone else is doing them. Like, that's not a lane anybody else wanted the challenge of taking. It's a very hard lane to take. This story is a perfect example. Like, I've been pretty locked in on this story

as it's evolved over the last several years, and there were several things in here that I had never heard and learned because of the work that Pablo does with this other journalist. It's spectacular. What he is attempting to do with that podcast is the highest degree of difficulty, which is, can I exceed the standard

of being at the thing everyone else is talking about and still consistently surprise you with fact-based reporting that makes even the people who feel the most informed be like, Holy shit. I didn't know it was like that. Talking like that's ass. Now is a good time to remember where tequila's story truly began. In 1795, Cuervo invented tequila.

Quervo. What are you doing here? Quervo. Anytime someone says Cuervo, I show up. Well, I do know that to be true, but even during an ad reads, like... Quervo. I think he could lay out, especially from one of our great partners. Sweet, delicious quervo. Since then, Cuervo is stayed true to its roots.

The same family, the same land, the same passion. Quervo. So, enjoy the tequila that started it all. Cuervo. Quervo. The tequila. That invented tequila. Broximo.com.

Please drink responsibly. Quervo.